Calling Out What Schools Lost | Reconnecting to What Matters Most - Ep 21

Hosts: Courtney Acosta & Mario Acosta
Bios: https://www.theedleadershippair.com/about-us
Podcast: The EdLeadership Pair – Unfiltered Conversations for Today’s School Leaders

🎧 Episode Overview

“Back to basics” can sound like criticism, but that is not what this episode is about.

In this episode, Courtney and Mario talk about what schools lost when COVID forced leaders, teachers, students, and families into survival mode. The conversation is not about going backward or pretending schools should return to 2019. Instead, it is about asking a more honest question:

What did we used to do well that did not fully make the journey back with us?

Based on feedback from practicing principals across the country, this episode explores the routines, expectations, relational practices, academic experiences, staff connections, and family partnerships that were disrupted during and after COVID. Courtney and Mario examine how technology, accountability pressure, isolation, and survival strategies changed the way schools operate—and what leaders can do now to reconnect schools to what matters most.

The central message is clear: schools do not need nostalgia. They need intentional reconnection.

💡 Big Ideas From This Episode

• COVID changed schools, and some temporary survival strategies stayed too long.

• This is not about going backward; it is about identifying what was valuable and rebuilding it in today’s context.

• Technology is not the enemy, but ineffective technology use can replace meaningful human connection.

• Schools have become too outcome-driven and transactional in ways that can weaken belonging, motivation, and relationships.

• Students need more opportunities to talk, collaborate, argue academically, create, and connect with one another.

• Adults need face-to-face connection too. Staff culture, morale, and retention are strengthened when people have real relationships at work.

• Family engagement has to move beyond expecting families to come to school on the school’s terms.

• Reconnection must happen through repeated experiences, not one-time events.

🧠 Leadership Takeaways

1. Name What Was Lost Before Trying To Fix It

Leaders need to pause and ask what routines, expectations, relationships, and experiences disappeared during the last several years.

2. Keep the Best of What Changed

Not every COVID-era adjustment was bad. Technology, flexibility, and new tools can still support learning when they are used intentionally.

3. Stop Letting Technology Replace Connection

Technology should enhance learning, not reduce students to isolated clicking, passive participation, or disconnected screen time.

4. Rebuild Student-to-Student Interaction

Classrooms should include structured opportunities for students to talk, problem-solve, collaborate, disagree respectfully, and learn from one another.

5. Create More Adult Presence

Leaders should examine where students need more visible, relational adult presence—in classrooms, hallways, common spaces, arrival, dismissal, and events.

6. Reconnect Staff Intentionally

Faculty meetings, professional learning, and staff gatherings should include intentional opportunities for connection, trust-building, humor, reflection, and shared identity.

7. Reimagine Family Engagement

Instead of only asking families to come to school, leaders should look for where families already are: games, performances, drop-off lines, pickup lines, community events, and everyday touchpoints.

8. Build Repeated Experiences

Connection is not rebuilt through one event. It is rebuilt through consistent, repeated, positive interactions over time.

🔥 Powerful Quotes From This Episode

“Schools do not need nostalgia. They need intentional reconnection.”

“This episode is not clamoring for a return to pre-COVID.”

“What did we have then that did not migrate with us to now?”

“The most successful schools are about cultivating humans.”

“Technology should enhance learning, not replace human connection.”

“Connection has to be rebuilt through repeated experience.”

“If teachers knew their families and families knew their teachers a little better, the world would be a better place for kids in school.”

🎯 Final Thought

Schools do not need to go backward.

But leaders do need to be honest about what was quietly lost.

Some routines disappeared. Some expectations softened. Some connections weakened. Some family partnerships became more distant. Some classrooms became more transactional. And some of the human-centered practices that made schools feel alive never fully returned.

The work now is not to recreate the past.

The work is to reconnect schools to what matters most: strong relationships, meaningful learning, clear expectations, family partnership, staff connection, and the daily human experiences that help students want to belong, participate, and grow.

Because schools are not factories.

They are communities built by people, for people.

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Join our growing community of school leaders navigating today’s challenges together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Back to basics. Yeah, that phrase can make some people bristle. It sounds like criticism, like someone saying we got soft or lazy, but that's not what this is about. School leaders aren't trying to turn back the clock. They're trying to rebuild what got quietly dismantled when we were all in survival mode. The expectations, the routines, the academic rigor, the relationships and community connections that used to hold everything together. Here's the thing COVID changed schools. Period. The temporary workarounds sometimes became permanent. And the survival strategies stuck around way past their expiration date. Now leaders are left sorting through the wreckage, asking, what do we bring back? What needs a complete redesign? And what do we finally let go of? I'm Courtney.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

And I'm Mario.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

And this is the Ed Leadership Pair Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Oh, wow. So yeah, we jump in. You know, hey, you're doing that cold open, and I'm sitting here going, like, man, we're going to talk about COVID again. So let me just remind the listeners where this episode topic is coming from. We reached out to seven or eight principals that are practicing in buildings right now all over this country. And we said, hey, what's on your mind right here as we come to the end of May, the beginning of June, and before we go off on summer break. And so anybody who heard last week's episode, if you haven't, it's a good one, go check it out. We talked about some of those really logistic and cultural things that principals and admin teams have to finish before they can go off to their summer breaks. But this one, again, why are we talking about COVID? Because the number of principals that we reached out to that said there are some basics, just basic, basic things that used to exist in a school building prior to the year 2020 and have been lost in the shuffle. And so I don't know, you know, we said COVID. I what it what are you you when we were planning? You were like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_02 2:03

It is it's 2026. And so if I was somebody maybe not in schools, thinking hearing this episode, going, Why are we still talking about COVID? But you know, like you hear from principals all the time that there are things that they either want to bring back or refine or let go of that all had to do with the result of COVID. And you in 2020 were still in brick and mortar building.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yep, I was leading to school, and and I'll never forget it. It was uh the day before spring break. It was the Friday before spring break, and we were going to have a cultural um celebration fair on my campus. And I remember the district calling and saying, Hey, there's this thing, this this virus that is we may have to consider. And that was Friday, and and we went ahead and had the culture fair on Saturday, and then by Monday, the world shut down. Yeah, so I have this really vivid memory of like I was in it, I was on the campus in the middle of of being a principal when that happened, and I stayed through the year 2022, so lived kind of the the shock of the redesign and the reopening and that nasty year, which was 2021, where everything was real funky.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

And I I was at the central office at the time, and I remember we got called in on the weekend to sit around the table, like kind of far away from each other, not really knowing what was happening, but still trying to plan for how we were gonna move forward with schools and what that would look like before everything got shut down. But the fact that that was 2020 and then now it's 2026, and we're still talking about this, it has had a massive impact in schools and not just academically, but behaviorally and looking at our systems and our practices and talking about what are the things that we adjusted for COVID that we either need to go back and cut or add to or refine or whatever that is, um, that was something that we got a lot of feedback from principals on recently, which was super interesting to me.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

Yeah, so I think that's where we're gonna jump in. How do we reset some things that we lost in that transition period we just talked about from the years 2020 to let's say 2022-ish? We as a school system rebuilt the whole school system. We had to at least adjust it on the fly. And there were a lot of things that got adjusted in there. Um, the expectations of how students interact with each other, the expectations of how adults interact with students, the expectation of how the staff interacts with one another. Um, you know, the way we implement our curriculum through our instructional uh uh technology or or our digital uh resources. So a lot changed in the last four years. So I know we're like, gosh, it's 2026, why are we still talking about this? But it's not COVID. We don't want to talk about COVID. What we want to talk about are what are the things in the redesign of school, this like lightning fast shift that schools have lived under in the last four years. What maybe got lost? This is what the principals reached out and told us. Like, there are things, basic school things that have maybe gotten lost that are needing to come back, or principals are maybe struggling to get them back.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah. And I I remember when it happened too, you and I had a lot of conversations that were almost dreaming about the way that education could potentially be redesigned because of this. Yeah. It could be this massive shift where things are adjusted and different. Um, and and unfortunately, a lot of things went right back to the way that they were, which is a little sad because it was it felt like a window that we could make these massive changes and we had permission to do that from the community and from um state leaders and federal leadership that we could do some of those adjustments that could have been really amazing. And we saw a lot of it just go right back.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, I think you and I have expressed some sadness over the fact that in the year 2026, schools did not progress. The system itself did not progress. It's like it just went back systematically to the way it always has looked, and that's fairly disappointing because we know there are reforms that are needed and things that could be done better. The way that state legislatures function and the way the accountability systems work. But what I'd like to do is put the principal quotes out here. We heard specifically from a handful of principals.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

How do we get back to some of those pre-COVID basics that had high yield results and made your campus a place that you love to work? Um, the things I'm thinking about is less dependency on technology and reincorporating some of those instructional practices, processes, and activities that we used to use that had kids working and talking together and creating together, being intentional about more campus connectivity, the campus culture and climate in regards to the staff and them enjoying each other. How do we recreate um how the campus community vibe was before COVID? When COVID hit, we stopped a lot of best practices on a dime and we pivoted to what we thought was best during that time. There were teachers and leaders that had to go away from things they love to do. But we're six years out from COVID. It's at we're at a point where we understand what school looks like. How about we reflect on those things and potentially incorporate some of those things back into how we do business?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Man, those quotes from Active Principles is okay, this is what we wanted to talk about as we end the 2026, you know, 25, 26 school year. Uh how do we help principals right now think through this idea of what is maybe missing that we've lost over time? And how do we get it back?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

And I'll add this too. I think how do we keep the best of what adjustments were made? Um, she talked about less dependence on technology. And I would say not even less dependence on technology, but I would say let's adjust and change the way that we're using it because technology can provide a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility that we did not have prior to COVID. Yes, yes, I agree. And so I think using it in a different way that is really effective for kids is what we should do. Like, let's reevaluate our practices using technology and not necessarily say, let's get technology out, because technology is going to be a part of every learner's future. Like you're yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

It technology is a fantastic tool, like any other tool. It actually you and I have talked about how AI and the proliferation of technology in our schools provides opportunities that have never been available before for not only students but for teachers and staff. Yes. So we are not anti-technology, and I don't think this principal was saying it that way, but here's what I can tell you I do walkthroughs in classrooms all around the country, right? North, south, east, west, in the in the heartland, all over the place. And what I can tell you, I've shared on this on this podcast before, is what I see too frequently are teachers using Chromebooks or or MacBooks or or iPads like worksheets were used in the past. Yeah. It's just kids endlessly clicking almost mindlessly on what tasks used to be printed off of a, if you're really old school, off of a ditto machine. Now we've talked about both uh both my parents, my dad and my mom were principals. Your mom was a principal. And so you and I remember the days of ditto machines. I don't we didn't really use them with the old purple ink and all that, but we remember. Yeah, and that smell. So I don't know if you're talking about ditto's or Batmore R era where you put it on a Xerox copy machine, but but I think what the principal's probably describing here is what I see too much of, which is teachers are using the technology in a way that is highly inefficient and and really not even healthy for children. Um, like the old days of the worksheet, but now it's it's this like inappropriate um overuse. How about we say it that way? Over and ineffective use of technology.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Can I tell you the saddest one I heard about?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

I was really fortunate to get to talk to a parent teacher association earlier this semester.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

And oh wait, let's talk about that. The ed leadership pair got invited to uh panel. So anybody out there, listen, we're we do, we do uh guest spots if you if you think we can be of assistance.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

It was really fun. But the cool part was they had the people who were talking on the panel, they separated us out into tables to like talk to the parents in smaller groups. And one of the parents, um, it was at an elementary school table, and she said that the teacher was using AI to actually create a personality that would then read the books to children. So they would have reading time. And remember like this idea of a teacher sitting in the rocking chair and you know, reading the book, and then your show, oh, look at the pictures and the kids, ooh, ah, and like this whole moment crisscross applesauce on the road. Absolutely crisscross applesauce. And so then, but then there's like inflection in the voice, and there's do you guys see, or what do you think is gonna happen next? And I'm not saying this teacher didn't do that, but the way that the parent presented it was that the teacher literally had AI reading the book during reading time out loud to the kids, and it would show the pictures on the screen. And I was like, oh, what a miss, what a miss for an opportunity to connect with kids. And it's so unnecessary, right? To have, and I get it, maybe that teacher had to get some grades in or had to get like was trying to do something effective during that time, I'm sure. But in that moment, I was just so sad that they were using read aloud time, using AI to read to the kids. I mean, please, please, just like they want to hear from you. They kids love that. But I love that.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I think that's what our principals are telling us right now is that in the attempt, teachers trying to use it efficiently, that maybe campuses have lost. And Court, what is at the heart of all effective campuses is the connections between kids, their teachers, kids and their peers, and then staff and staff peers, right? That's the thing that schools are so unique is that we are not a factory, we are not uh uh computer chip production companies. Like we are about people for people. And I think that's what our principals are sort of trying to get across here is to keep the great technology, to keep growing with AI and growing with the the new technology in our classrooms, but to try and reset the connections that we all expected, the human part of school, because God, what a danger that we or we, you know, it sounds like we're in such danger of losing that. Um, you know, and I picture kids sitting in schools, and of course, a lot of schools have cell phone bands now, but I picture kids sitting in schools on their Chromebooks, chatting away, and like I haven't turned to the hot girl next to me, like right here, and be like, hey, hot girl, what are you doing at lunch? Who are you sitting with? Or hey, buddy, let's go play, let's go play uh jacks out in the, you know, or marbles or okay. Pickup sticks, kids don't play pickup sticks still anymore, right? But uh I think you you know, my point is just that what what are we losing in the human connection because everybody's heads are down in the machine. Um and again, not don't throw out the machines. We need them, they're great, they're helpful. All of it makes makes it more efficient, more effective if it's done right without the loss of the human connection.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

So, what do you think are some of the things that were lost in this? Like when you when you look at schools and you're doing these walks across the country and put aside the idea of kids on Chromebooks and all of that, like just aside from the technological piece, what are the things that you feel like you see have been lost?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Well, I do think that, and this is a larger societal issue, but I don't think schools are tackling it effectively. I don't think we do enough kid-to-kid connection during school. Um, and I think it's a blend. I think part of it is the accountability. We are being asked to cover more content and teach more standards than fit in a year. So a teacher's got this impossible situation where they're like, well, I gotta teach two years worth of standards in one year. Um, I've got the prolifer proliferation of the technology and all my expectations of curriculum and follow a script and sometimes students receiving different services that I've got to check the box, that I did this for this kid, that for that kid, that for that kid, that for like the So that's what I see is schools have turned into these like output factories and or an attempted output factory, and we've lost the process, right? And I'm an old coach, so forgive me for the analogy. But when you're a good ball club of any kind, you're not focused on winning the game, you're focused on playing really well. You're focused on how do you how do you do this really well? And then the outcomes are the byproduct of doing it really well. And I feel like in schools, leaders, uh it's not necessarily our fault, but we have so much pressure that everybody's like out outcome driven. I gotta worry about intervention. And are our PLCs looking at data? And are the kids um on the Chromebook long enough on the on the literacy program? And are they doing the math program? And it's like, hey, have we stopped and remembered that this is like humans growing up? Are we taking care? Are they connecting? Are we connecting? Um, so I I think that's what I see the most is schools have turned into these accountability factories. And I don't just mean accountability to the test, accountability to so many things. And it's like, hey, this is a building full of humans, and I don't see enough human connection. Um, you know, you and I used to be really good about making sure our student body was about more than academics. You know, I remember when we would have a DJ on Fridays in the student center, and you guys would have uh senior cookouts in the courtyard and not kids not skipping school. We're not talking about skipping school, we're talking about these these things that we used to do, um, student-led talent shows and all the things that make a school the the character and the and the thing that kids want to go to school for, the dress up days and the things that make school fun and connect people. I just, gosh, I I don't I don't know. I and I'm I'm I know I'm I don't get to set foot in every school in the United States, so I'm sure it's happening somewhere, but I just feel like we've become so outcome-driven that we've forgotten the process about connecting humans with humans.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a great example of something that has been lost over time. And not every school. Like we we recognize like we don't need to get attacked that my school doesn't do that, and my school's really that is amazing. Please share more, share more of those ideas because we know it exists, it just exists in pockets. Yeah, and and there's it's also I could see it being really scary as a school administrator to kind of be like, ah, I don't care about the federal accountability system or my state accountability system, and I'm gonna focus on this, and I'm gonna focus on relationships, and I'm gonna focus on kids getting involved, and I'm gonna clubs and organizations and all I could see that being really scary to take that leap to shift your focus to the relationships, but I think the benefit you get from that greatly outweighs the risk of the accountability system.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yeah, it is scary for principals, and sometimes principals are being pushed on by people higher up than the oh for sure. You know, I I we have some friends whose boss is a micromanager, and our friends say, like, I don't want to do this, but if we're not on the third page of this module on the third Tuesday of May, then my butt is getting chewed out. And it is really sad and would just never encourage any leaders to be that, you know, thumb on people because school isn't about that. School isn't never schools, successful schools were never about that. The most successful schools are about cultivating humans. That's really what we do. We cultivate humans. Now, do they learn algebra one along the way? Yes. Do they learn to read along the way? Of course. But it's about development, human development. And I think that's that's probably a lot of what got lost um just philosophically. And that's not because of COVID necessarily, that's because of a lot of societal factors that that I think put pressure on schools.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

I think especially uh right now we're seeing such an increase in students um at home being kind of isolated. And you you hear about the number of kids that are in their room on a computer by themselves, day after day, hour after hour. And that's a really scary thought. So when they come to school, just like we used to say, like this may be the one meal that a kid gets all day. And so it was really important that we make sure and spend time feeding kids, it's the same kind of thing. Yes. This is this could be the one opportunity these kids have to socialize, to learn and grow as humans that are building those connections with each other and how to do that in a safe and appropriate way. This may be it. And I get it. I you could also come back and be like, well, that's a parent's job, and parents aren't doing their job. And yeah, you could do that, sure. You could say that. But also let's teach kids. It's not just teaching the content. We are teaching kids and we are bringing kids into society after they graduate and and trying to create these beings that are productive for our entire society.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, and so you know, I a couple of things I want to say right here too. Yeah, I love what you said. So if you're listening and you're like, hey, my school is doing something really well, Courtney and I would love in a future episode to celebrate you. So listen, I'm gonna remind you our Instagram handle, edleadership underscore pair. Hit us up there, send us a DM and tell us what you are doing that we can celebrate and share with other schools listening. Or we're also on TikTok at the edleadership pair. So either way, it we would love to hear from you because we don't we don't mean to be picking on schools, we're not. We're just trying to identify some of the pain points out there. And if you've got answers, we'd love to hear from you. Please hit us up on either TikTok or Instagram. And there are schools I see. One of the one one time recently this spring, I was in an elementary school doing a classroom walkthrough, and it had that environment. The kids were learning math. I was watching a math lesson, but the lesson was so integrated amongst student conversation. The kids were problem solving together, and this was no magic lesson. I'm not talking about the teacher who was like a wizard. This was a good old-fashioned, and I would dare say pre-COVID lesson. The teacher was at the front of the room where the kids were in little pods, the teacher was teaching little chunks of information. Then the kids were given a small task and they were working together, and every little group of three, they had a little sharing protocol they had to use. The teacher had taught them person A, that's first, person B then does this, person C. Now, do you all agree or do you not? And there were little kids showing their personalities, you know, bossy little girls and little boys arguing with little girls.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

It's not bossy, it's called leadership skills.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, it was just amazing to stand in the back. And this would, these were probably second graders. So, what does that make them eight or nine, somewhere in that range, right? Six, seven, eight, nine, whatever, great, whatever. These are young children. And to stand back and listen to the humanity, the discussions. No, I think I'm right. No, remember she said this. No, and that's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

I think good academic argument. I love a good academic argument.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

And the teacher handling it appropriately. Remember, we use nice words with our friends, and I mean. I mean, it was exactly what I think the principals who we heard from are just clamoring for, which is how do we turn schools back into people environments and get away from accountability factories or um these sad, tech over-technologified, I made that word up. But um, you know, I just I'm picturing uh in the movie Finding Nemo, he comes across those fish that are going to work and they're really just sad, really gray fish. They look really sad and bored going off to work. That's how I feel like our kids look sometimes in school. They're just there. They're there because the law says so, but they just seem sad and gray and gloomy. And then you contrast that with some classrooms that are alive and kids are talking and working together and even having academic disagreements and the teacher is celebrating and the kids clap when somebody gets it right. Like that's what we miss at all age levels is bringing back that life and that that energy and that humanity into a classroom, into a full school building. If you're a principal, that's what a classroom can look like. But what would a school building look like? Cordy and I told you we used to do a lot with our with our student body. Um, a lot of different kinds of get-togethers, a lot of socialization, a lot of interactions where kids were interacting with different kinds of kids. Break down those silos. What are you doing to like create an entire culture of kids interacting with kids on your campus?

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah, and I think even going beyond kids in the classroom, let's talk about the adults. Like, what can you do to build in more face-to-face interaction between teachers?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

I think that's a great point you make. You know, we just sort of went deep into how do we reset student connection and how do we set the expectations in classrooms that they should be lively places, full of full of interaction, full of voice, full of student belonging. And but what a good point about the staff, too. Because I think just as we've seen so many studies that kids are lonely and kids are isolated, so many adults are also lonely and isolated. And um, you know, our friend Tina Bogren, who we had on recently on the episode, her and I do a lot of work together. And there are so many studies that her and I really talk about at our big events, um, that it really is a fact at this in this day and age. When you're an adult, if you have at least one friend at your workplace, it changes not only your wellness and and your happiness at work, it impacts your retention. What the studies say is if I have at least one friend at work, then my my my wellness, my happiness is there, and I stay, I stay at that place. So for leaders listening, when you're talking about, gosh, how do I retain staff? How do I improve morale? Then foster friendships on your campus. And I was always a believer people don't have to be friends at work. That's that's not a I'm not saying everybody has to like each other and be buddy buddy. But if we can set up the conditions where people have the opportunity to actually make friendships with somebody at work, it's mutually beneficial for them. It it improves their morale, it improves the campus climate, and it's beneficial for us as leaders because people will stay on our campus. So I think when you're talking about staff connection, what are some of the things that can be done to connect the staff? I know what I used to do, and then I'd love to hear what some of the things you did. What I used to do is when we did our faculty meetings and we would do them once a month, the faculty meetings were intentionally non-logistic. There are times it's testing season, you got to make sure everybody knows where they're so I'm not saying we never did logistics, but our faculty meetings were like 90% interactional. I just wanted people interacting, sometimes around a problem of practice, sometimes around a celebration, sometimes just, hey, this is a chance to breathe. We're breathing, the kids aren't here. Take a minute and make a connection with somebody that you don't always connect with or that you haven't connected with in a long time. And I know you and I had big schools, some people have small schools, but I would urge you to say, look, you're putting your staff together in some kind of way. Are you intentionally creating the relational connections during the times you're together?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Yeah. And we would do it, wasn't like that at every staff meeting that we had, but at the big ones, we always tried to do some kind of like team building thing. And I tried, I mean, I was with high school teachers, that can be a little difficult. Yeah, but I I mean, they don't they don't want to play unless you're gonna play. Now, if you come to compete, they're in. Oh, sure. If you turn it into a competition, those high school teachers will be all in, they will come in in their workout gear and they're ready to go. And so I remember Cornhole tournaments.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Those were always pretty intense.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

We had cornhole tournament, and that was awesome. We did Hungry Hungry Hippos, and I can't believe nobody lost a limb during that.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

You gotta describe this. We're not playing the board game, Hungry Hungry Hippos.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

No, we were the hippos. And so we got those like elementary slider things that run little rollies, and we laid down on our bellies, and then one person, I think we tied some kind of bungee cord around a feet or something, and then they would push us out, and we had laundry baskets, and you had to scoop up, I think it was balloons or tennis balls, I don't remember. Balloons or tennis balls, and you would scoop them up in the laundry basket and bring them back, and then you would shove them back at your team. Yeah, your partner would pull you back in on your belly on this little roly thing. So, yeah, man, they would get all in. And we did stuff like that too with the kids. Like we did the McNeil High School Lip Dub. You can find that on YouTube. Just really amazing things that brought tons of people together to kind of celebrate the school community. We tried to do a lot of playful things and we had to find what was acceptable to the group of teachers. And for mine, it was competition. They they would, and maybe that is because I fed it because I was also like, this is what we're doing. And then could get in it, get them excited.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

And that's always where the school's culture kind of plays in. What will your staff like? But I do think, you know, offering school leaders a couple of just reflective questions here as we sort of move to our last segment of the of this episode. So we've sort of discussed this idea of needing to return back to some of the basics that we had in our school systems prior to the COVID shutdown. And we know that academic and behavioral expectations are key. But today we've talked about really focusing back in on the relational components, not the loss of technology, but the balancing of technology and the reconnection for humans, adult to kid, kid to kid, uh, adult to adult. And and um, so here's just a few maybe reflective questions that we can offer those listening. Where has the convenience of technology replaced the opportunity for connections? So, whether that be in the classroom, the hallway, the staff room, even in the community. Where do students need more adult physical presence? Because I was a middle school principal once upon a time, only for two years, because middle school was tough. It was tough for me. God bless you all. God bless you, middle school folks. I had to run back to high school. But I loved my time there. But what I what I learned in middle school was where the adults aren't, that's where problems can occur. So what I my staff and I we realized we just need to be where the kids are, and the amount of issues we had went way down. So I think that's a really important question right now is maybe are we missing? Are there are there is an adult presence missing somewhere where students need more of it? Um, where do staff need more face-to-face connection? What communication should not be reduced to an email? And I want to offer to leaders something that worked for me. I used to do a lot of video recording and send that with my communications. So people who don't want to see my ugly mug or hear my voice, fine, you can read it. Other people, though, would tell me, lots of people, parents and staff members, hey Mario, we'd love to just press play on your on your video. I was reading what was in the email necessarily, right? I was talking through it. But they're like, there's just something about hearing from you. So, leaders, I'm not saying you can walk around your campus and deliver the message to every individual or call a faculty meeting every week. Don't do that. Please don't do that. You'll kill your culture. People will be mad at you. But what communication shouldn't be reduced to just writing in an email? And can you get creative with your technology? And people want to hear your voice more, leaders, they want to see your face more. And so I would urge principals right now to think if if it's a lack of connection, my staff might connect to me even more if they saw my face more, heard my voice more. But I could do that in what we now know as asynchronous model, right? You remember that that definition that came out of COVID.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Now we have these asynchronous opportunities to interact with the staff and the community more with our face and voice than we used to prior.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

I want to talk about families and partnerships, like this one last piece. We know that there are families and there are partnerships that pulled back during COVID and they became more distant. And it's hard to get them back the way that it was before. I know that was another mention from these principals that we talked to is um when we had to close the doors to them, they felt like they were no longer allowed. I think it's also made worse by the fact that now every school has these vestibules for safety and security. And I get it, I totally get it. We need to have them for the safety of the school. But I could also see where as a parent going in, it doesn't feel inviting to go into the school and be like, you can stay in this 20 by 20 room until someone will come and get you and you're invited in. That's right. You're right. Yeah, and you're gonna talk at a window.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

And and that has to be, I agree with you, but schools have lost their warm welcome feeling. And again, that's not our fault, that's society's fault. But you're right. You walk in, even us, Court, we go to see our kids at the high school or drop off something they forgot, and you get put in a little wind box. Uh, and you talk to the window, push a button, and the window, like, can I help Darrow? And you like just put your computer in that box over there. You're right. It it's no longer like, Hey, Dr. Acosta, welcome. Good to see you, ma'am. How have you been? You yeah, you're just yeah, it just a little. So I think that's really fair. Wow, I hadn't really made that connection, but in our efforts to harden the exteriors of our school, which we have to to keep the people on the inside safe, have we created this increasing distance between our parents and the community?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah, and so I think there are a lot of things people are doing to try to build this and bring it back. And one of them obviously is you can't just wait for your families to come to the school. How can you get, and I know that's really hard right now to get parents on a campus because parents are working and they're busy and their lives are crazy. And so getting a parent on campus can be really difficult. But what are the things that you can do? I think you have got to reach out to where they are and try to, you know, shift that conversation to from how do we get them to come to us to how can we reach them where they already are? Yeah. Um, are there opportunities to host listening sessions in community spaces? Like, are there places you know that they um are coming in mass that you can get in on that and and be heard and have some of those conversations?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Yeah. Hey, you know what else I figured out during my time as a principal? Yes, going to the parents, finding community events, going to the churches, finding those things. I think that's like those are great strategies and should be used. But also, you know what I figured out? I remember one day I was sitting in a principal coffee. I'm sure a lot of principals do this. I would have monthly coffees, and I always had the same four or five mamas and daddies showing up every month. And no matter what I did about, hey, come come in, come in, I could only ever get the same handful of folks. Now, the nice thing about the handful is those become your power parents. They're the ones who will warn you that there's a train barreling toward you on the track. So you need your power parents. I'm not saying lose them, but what I was sitting there one night feeling depressed, I can't get people here. I'm so sad at myself and upset. And my coffee was from the hours of like 4:30 to 5 30. Well, that night at seven, we had a concert on campus. It was a choir/slash band concert. So the same night, I walked from my little library where my coffee was to the uh auditorium where we had our performance, and there were 800 families there. And I said to myself, All right, Dumbo, you're sitting around feeling bad for yourself. I can't get parents here. My parents don't care, they never come. That's all BS. Parents are on campuses all the time. They're there for the things that they care about with their kids. They're there at performances, they're there at events, they're there at uh uh games, ball games, others. So what I said from that day forward was, ah, I need to do my family engagement at the events. So I got really good, halftime of a basketball game. I'd get on the microphone and I'd really let's have a PTA meeting. No, it wasn't a PTA meeting. It was a dialogue. It was a dialogue. Parents, this is what we are seeing right now. This is what we could use your help with, or her parents, this is a question we wonder. How do you feel about this? What do we need to be thinking about? And this was in the days before QR codes, well, and they existed, but nobody knew what the hell they were. Now, what I would do is I'd put a QR code on the Jumbotron or whatever on the on the big screen and say, hey, parent, there's one question that I need from you. It's halftime. Thank you for being here. Your kids are amazing, or it's intermission between the show. How many missed opportunities are there at events? Parents are on campuses. Let's get some quick daytime. Where else are parents, Courtney? Parents are in the main office all the time. You and I just talked about you're dropping off a laptop, you're dropping off a lunch. How about interacting with them in some sort of way when they're there? So I will challenge all leaders listening when it comes to reconnecting families, you're not gonna get them at PTA meetings and you're not gonna get them at your principal coffees. Now you'll get some, and those are your power parents. Build those relationships deeply. But you either get got to get into the communities and you gotta go to where they already are on your campus. Hey, you know where else kit parents are? Pick up and drop offline. Remember, people would sit out there for two hours?

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Why aren't we talking to parents and pick up and drop offline? They are already there.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Walk around with a clipboard, here's your QR code. Let's do a quick little survey while you're waiting.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

I do get frustrated so in a parked car, not driving. Not driving in a parked car. But I I sometimes get frustrated when leaders say, Oh, I can't get parents on my campus. If you step back on any given week, parents are on your campus every day. We got to go to them. And it's about rethinking that way of interacting and reconnecting with our community because they're there. They just might not feel welcome or they might not be getting asked the questions that that we should be asking them.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

I think it's really a powerful thought, whether you're talking about the kids reconnecting, the staff reconnecting, or us reconnecting with our families, is that connection has to be re rebuilt through repeated experience. So the PTA night is nice, but that's not building connection. Yeah. Back to school night. That's nice, but there's no connections really built there. It's about a repeated experience. We have to rebuild that experience. This can't be a one-time thing. So, principals, I know our plates are full, and I'm not saying add more to your plate, but it's like rethinking how are we connecting with our families.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Yeah. And and I think you just you just said connection has to be rebuilt through these repeated experiences. I think one of the most impactful repeated experiences that makes me have a positive feel about my kids' campus is when I get positive communication home from them. Like I literally absolutely. And I think it was on, I think it's been on there since he was in 10th grade from a teacher that was just like, hey, your kid's awesome. And here's what I love about him. And wrote a little note. I don't know why. It just is, it was written. First of all, it was handwritten. And I'm like, oh my God, they took the the time to actually handwrite something and it has my child's name on it from the teacher's hand. Yeah. And that was, why was that so impactful? It was crazy. It wasn't an email, which I love an email too. Yes, send me, send me a really positive email. But you send home like a note in their backpack, even the high school kids, it makes a difference. And the more of those you get, the better positive feels you have about your kids' campus.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

And that's kind of the thing is, and and let's just be honest is I know everybody's plate is full. Principals' plates are full, administrators' teachers' plates are full. But I would say we're missing this opportunity. The whole episode is built on what are some of the basics that we've lost. I think we've lost a little bit of the teacher parent connection. And I know it can be like a bad word to say to teachers, hey, are you contacting parents? But here's what I would say, administrators listening. What can we reduce from the minutiae load that teachers have and increase the expectations on them spending time reaching out to families in a positive way? I think if you're looking for bang for your buck, when a teacher makes a positive connection with a family on a regular basis, how do you think that kid's going to respond in your classroom? Because mom andor dad are going to say, Hey, I've heard from your teachers. They say you do this and do that well. That means that kid is going back to school saying, Hey, you made my parents happy with me. I want to make you happy with me more so you keep talking. It's just uh it's a healthy cycle of what kids are looking for. It they won't express it to us, but again, I think we spend, we've talked about in this episode why what have schools lost? We've become accountability factories, output factories.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Makes everything transactional.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Yeah, that's what I'm teaching. Be looking at your data and PLC, the question, look at data, bringing data. And you know what? I'm like, hey, are we making connections? Are we making sure that the kids want to sit in your class? Because you know why our data's poopy in the United States? Most kids don't want to be there. So yeah, no wonder why their data sucks because they're not trying real hard. Now, not all kids, but a lot of kids. They're not motivated. I keep talking about they're in a factory, they just don't feel happy at school. And so this is one of those spots where what could we go back to? Again, not we're not talking about nostalgia. I don't want to go back to 2019. And I think we need to say this emphatically. This episode is not clamoring for a return to pre-COVID. That is that is a failing, uh, it's a failing thought. What we mean is what did we have then that didn't migrate with us to now? And we don't want to throw everything out that we have now, but what do we need to bring back that we used to have that we don't have anymore? And I think it's this if teachers knew their families and families knew their teachers a little better, I think the world would be a better place for kids in school. Sure, sure. So, what would I do if I were a principal? I'd start to build more regular cadence in our collaborative team cycle. Do we should we look at data? I pick on that a little bit because I have my own issues with it. And if you want to know all about how the ed leadership pair think about data, that's gonna be a big conversation in season two because I think we have a lot of outdated data practices, and I want to get into that in a future season, but that's just a teaser. So I'm not saying we shouldn't look at data, but I'm saying if you want your bang for your buck, you can either spend hours of your teachers studying what kids aren't doing well, or you can try and get to the root cause and reconnect with the families and try and actually change the way kids feel about coming to school and their motivation, their effort, their their care will go up when you connect with their families at home.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

And if you're a new principal, how powerful it would be if that was one of the first things you did was to start to learn the community before you began creating your plans for that campus. Like spend time understanding the cultural strengths, the daily realities, their needs, their assets. Um, what are their preferred ways of engaging the school? And and I guess not just new principles, but I would just think that would be super powerful. And then you get with other families to design whatever that plan needs to be. I think that you you could have a really cool opportunity there if you are a new principal coming into a campus in this upcoming year.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

New principles, all principles. I want to point everyone listening to one of my favorite resources. It's a book titled Just Schools by Anne Ishimaru. So it's this concept that that Ishimaru writes about it's a shift to family engagement instead of parental involvement. What does that mean? Basically, what it means is in traditional parental involvement structures, it is school to parents. Here is what we do, and here's how we are letting you know how your kid is doing in what we do. And here's how you could plug in, here's how you could help us. We have this pie sale, we have the right, here's how you could help us. But it's all about the school. What Ishimaro explains is that a true family engagement is the administration, the school, the staff understanding the desires of the community. What do they want for their kids? And then taking our expertise about the school system, but how do we do school in this building in a way that marries what the families desire for their kids? So, like I'll give you an example at Westwood High School, that community cared deeply about two things thing number one. They wanted their kids to be prepared for post-secondary academic opportunities. That was a very academically focused community. And they wanted their kids to learn how to balance their lives, how to be good people who weren't harming themselves because of overload and overwork and competition. And so I redesigned Westwood High School in the image of what the community was seeking. Our staff had a hard time at points because I had to say, yeah, you know what? We're not doing homework anymore. On these parts, we're stopping homework. You know why? Because the parents said we need our kids to throttle back at times. We need our kids to breathe and learn how to be 17, 16, 15-year-olds. So I said, you know what's going into our curriculum? Yeah, we're going to keep pressing academic expectations and we're going to increase the expectations for balance and humanity and friendship and family time. And we used to talk about it. We used to teach it. We used to make it built into our school system. And so that's an example of what we mean by engaging your families. It means redesign the school system in the image of what the parents want for the for the growth of their children.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Sounds good. Well, thank you so much for another great episode.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Same to you, Bom Mario.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

I'm Courtney, and this is the Ed Leadership Pair Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Thank you all for listening.