What Principals are Really Facing Today | National Principal Panel - Ep 26

🎧 Episode Overview

In this special event episode, Mario and Courtney bring together a panel of principals from across the country for a raw, honest conversation about what school leadership feels like right now.

From Iowa to Texas to North Dakota to Nevada to New Mexico, these leaders unpack the real weight of the principalship:

• crisis management 
• public perception 
• staff accountability 
• marketing schools 
• parent pressures 
• social media challenges 
• staffing uncertainty 
• and the emotional load of leading people well 

What emerges is a powerful reminder:

Leadership today is heavier than ever.

But great principals are still finding ways to stay grounded, build trust, support teachers, and keep kids at the center.

This episode is a window into the realities of school leadership—and a reminder that no leader carries it alone.

💡 Big Ideas From This Episode

• The principalship has become far more complex than instructional leadership alone
 • School leaders now function as marketers, crisis managers, and community builders
 • Social media has changed how schools build trust—and how conflict spreads
 • Staff need presence more than perfection from their leaders
 • Trust and autonomy are critical for teacher growth
 • Accountability must exist inside healthy culture
 • Difficult conversations require clarity, courage, and consistency
 • Visibility matters more than leaders often realize
 • The emotional weight of leadership is real—but shared

🧠 Leadership Takeaways

1. The principalship has changed

Today’s principals are managing:

✔ crisis
 ✔ politics
 ✔ social media
 ✔ enrollment
 ✔ staffing
 ✔ parent demands
 ✔ public trust

It’s no longer just about instruction.

2. Schools are now competing

Families have options.

That means principals must market:

• culture 
• trust 
• belonging 
• opportunity 

Enrollment is survival.

3. Visibility matters

Teachers do not always need another meeting.

Sometimes they need:

your presence

Walking halls. Sitting in common spaces. Being accessible.

Presence builds trust.

4. Trust multiplies teachers

Great leaders don’t micromanage.

They:

• trust professionals 
• support risk-taking 
• create autonomy 
• provide resources 

That’s how staff grow.

5. Accountability is still love

The panel made this clear:

Holding someone accountable is not cruelty.

It’s clarity.

It’s care.

And it’s necessary.

6. Difficult conversations cannot be avoided

Avoidance creates bigger problems.

Strong leaders:

✔ prepare
 ✔ stay grounded
 ✔ stay clear
 ✔ stay kind
 ✔ stay direct

7. Community keeps leaders afloat

One of the strongest themes:

You cannot do this alone.

Every principal needs:

• mentors 
• peers 
• thought partners 
• safe spaces 

Leadership is too heavy to carry alone.

🔥 Powerful Quotes

“Everything is figureoutable.”

“Clear is kind. Unclear is unkind.”

“They don’t need a manager. They need a mentor.”

“People want to be seen, heard, and known.”

🛠 Practical Framework: Supporting Staff Well

STEP 1: Be Visible

Presence before pressure.

STEP 2: Build Trust

Give autonomy.

Support innovation.

STEP 3: Clarify Expectations

Core values.
 Vision.
 Non-negotiables.

STEP 4: Coach Before Correcting

Ask:
 What’s happening?
 What support do you need?

STEP 5: Hold the Line

If expectations are clear:

Accountability follows.

🎯 Quick Reflection Questions

• Am I leading instruction—or just managing crisis? 
• Do my teachers feel seen? 
• Where am I over-functioning? 
• What am I tolerating that needs accountability? 
• Who is helping me carry this work? 

🎙 Final Thought

Leadership can feel isolating.

Heavy.

Messy.

And at times, impossible.

But this conversation reminds us:

There are great principals everywhere carrying the same weight.

Fighting the same battles.

Loving kids the same way.

And doing the work anyway.

If you’re in it right now—

keep going.

You are not alone.

🎙 The EdLeadership Pair Podcast
Now brought to you by Marzano Resources & Solution Tree
🌐 www.marzanoresources.com | www.solutiontree.com

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Join our growing community of school leaders navigating today’s challenges together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When it comes to leadership, being a veteran and experiencing many things in many different ways is of course critically important. However, there's something to be said for no matter how many times you've seen something or how many times you've been around the block, hearing from people who are in it, who are doing it. And so no matter how much Courtney and I have done this work, we are super excited to invite into the Ed Leadership pair people who are living and breathing this work on campuses right now, walking through those fires on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_07 0:30

I am so excited to hear from them. I cannot wait. And I know that they are gonna have such valuable input for us and for anybody listening. And I think there's gonna be so many times when you're like, oh, me too. Like I've I'm in that now. And so even just a little bit of that solidarity sometimes is nice to have. So I can't wait to hear everything that they have to say and all their wisdom. Um, Courtney.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

And I'm audio.

SPEAKER_07 1:04

And this is the Ed Leadership Pair Podcast brought to you by Marzano Resources and Solution Tree.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

This week we bring you a live principal panel, principals from across the country and their wisdom shared with you, our listeners. Let's get right to it.

unknown 1:17

Yay!

SPEAKER_01 1:17

This is the Ed Leadership Pair Podcast coming to you with our national principal panel. We are super excited to have all of you hear the wisdom and the experience and all the guidance from our great principal panel that we have here today. So we're gonna allow our principals to introduce themselves before we get into content. So, Eric, if you would please lead us off, sir.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Sure. I'm Eric Reese, the 612 principal at Central City in Central City, Iowa, uh near Cedar Rapids. Um I cover seven through twelve. We have about a hundred students in grades uh nine through twelve, though, just for reference. And just finished my first year in the principal role.

SPEAKER_07 1:55

That's awesome. Congratulations on that, Eric.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Still here.

SPEAKER_07 2:00

You make it through and you're coming back, as far as we know. Still coming back. All right. Next up we have Tabitha.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Hi, I'm Tabitha Joyce. I am an elementary principal in a K5 school in West Fargo, North Dakota. Title I. Um, I'm just starting my 18th year as a principal.

SPEAKER_07 2:20

18th?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

18th year, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Congratulations, Tabitha. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_07 2:25

All right. That's phenomenal. Thank you so much for being here today, Tabitha. Jessica?

SPEAKER_05 2:31

Hi, I'm Jessica Burunda. I am an elementary school principal in Round Rock, Texas. I serve about 800 students, uh, ranging from three years old to fifth grade. And I am entering my sixth year as principal.

SPEAKER_07 2:48

Awesome. Thank you, and congrats on your six years, Jessica. Desiree.

SPEAKER_06 2:55

Hi, I'm Desiree Velos. I'm principal at Perrump Valley High School, and we're the only high school in Perrump, which is about an hour outside of Las Vegas. I serve 1,300 students, and we are a Title I designated school, and I'm going into my sixth year as well as principal.

SPEAKER_07 3:14

That's awesome. Thank you so much for being here. And Hema.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Hi, I'm Hemma Suggs, and I currently serve at Santa Teresa High School, which is one of three comprehensive high schools of Gatsden District. Um, we have about 1,100 students from grades nine through twelve.

SPEAKER_07 3:32

That's phenomenal. You got us a good little group.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, this is a great group of principals. And um, Courtney and I always talk about in our episodes that what I do for a living is I get to fly around the country, and wonderful principals invite me into their environments for support and for partnership. And so this is just a small handful of the great people that I've had the pleasure of meeting and working alongside over the years uh in the job that I do with Marzano Resources and Solution Tree. So if you guys are ready, we're gonna just kind of fire off some questions at you and kind of pick your brains and get your experience and allow your expertise to strengthen our uh the work that our listeners do. So we're gonna open with our first big question, which is this When you think about leading schools right now, what feels most different from even just a few years ago? Um now I know Eric, this will you just like tell us from your from your because you know, Eric, but you've you've stepped in from an assistant principal role into this principalship or your other leadership experiences, so want you to talk about what's been different. But you know, we've got other veterans on the call, so what's different now than even just a few years back, if you guys are willing to start that dialogue for us, please.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Well, this is a this is a good question because you know, amongst my colleagues, we always talk about was this really what we signed up for? You know, when you talk about being a principal, and definitely we're instructional leaders, right? That that is our number one. Make sure that our kids are learning good stuff. But sometimes I feel like a crisis manager, right? When I'm not a social worker, I am a family therapist, I am an HR compliant officer, I am all things all at once. And I don't know if that's what I you know my principal was doing when I was in high school, but man, I don't know. What what do you guys think?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

I think in my my time working in public schools, I in Iowa anyway, um, things are much more competitive than they used to be. I think we're competing for kids, and um through open enrollment options, or uh we have a voucher program that's new here in Iowa, and charter schools are becoming very popular. Um, I find myself in a marketing seat a lot where I have to make sure that I and my staff and coaches and everybody are um telling our community uh about all the good things and um really telling our own story for for ourselves rather than letting other people tell it for us. And uh just that that marketing lens, I feel like, has become much more important for us here in Central City and in Iowa.

SPEAKER_05 6:16

I would say that also I do think that I'm sorry, um, I also do think that um going along with what Eric said about being a marketing manager, I realized very early on, um, right out of COVID, because that's whenever I started, and I know it's the big C word, but um I I just found it interesting how much we do have to market in order to get people to come back and to really trust what you're doing on your campus. Um, the other part, every single time I have to talk to families or I am out marketing, it isn't about my testing scores. It isn't about the levels of certification that I've received from um HRS from uh through Marzano. It really is about what am I gonna going to be able to do for their kids and how am I going to make them feel like they belong. And even more recently, I've been questioned about what I am doing to prepare students in the world because of AI. And I feel like I'm constantly having to learn and research and figure out like what is it that's going to happen with the elementary students as they go vertically, and then even after they leave our public school system, um, and how are we equipping them with the skills that they need, not just information and content related. Um, so it's it's always trying to learn and do all of the other things that Hemma um alluded to as far as us being crisis managers. Um, I I really just I don't know how I would do it without my playbook from level one, really, um, in uh high reliability schools. But um I do think that it's it's so important for us to be able to figure out how to market and and really hear what our constituents want so that we can continue growing and actually get them to trust us with their most prized possessions every single day.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yeah, I would add uh that add to that and say that the biggest thing I've seen too is just the public perception of teaching and educators, and which bothers me. Um, but I also think it affects who's going to select that as their career and um go into education. And we need, um, I truly believe it's the foundation of everything, every you know, other profession there is. So it's one of the most important jobs we we have, and it should be celebrated a lot more than it is. So I see I see that affecting education. Probably it's a little bit longer than like the last 10 years, maybe.

SPEAKER_06 9:09

I think the biggest uh difference I've seen for myself actually lands with me. Um I came into education very um, I loved school, I loved everything about school, I loved my teachers all the way through like super nerd. And I learned as a teacher that obviously um students weren't like me, not all students, many students were, and some weren't. And I had to change as an educator, and it's the same as a leader, and so it's really about um taking your perceptions of what it is going in the door versus what it actually is. Um I've had to work really hard on my mindset and just refusing to um drink the Kool-Aid of what the educational story is, focus on our purpose. Like I'm serving kids, I love to serve kids, that brings me so much joy. Um when I hit a a rocky patch, which is you know, probably multiple times a day, I have to just re-like center myself and focus on my purpose and realize like I am the problem solver, like that is what I signed up to be. And so instead of being frustrated or upset over that, I'm just gonna try to figure out like okay, what what am I I have um principles that I base off of, and one of them is grounded in truth. And I just try to go and focus on what the truth is and how can I serve and people first is one of the other principles I follow. And I just try to stand grounded in that. But it really it's it's scary that it all starts with me, but it really does all start with me.

SPEAKER_07 10:56

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Can I reflect on some of that? Of course, yeah. Okay, of course. You guys said some really interesting things that I think are things that principals and school and district leaders probably all feel, but to hear it voiced out loud, it's like, dang, that we we do do that. The the sales of it and the marketing piece of it and the the competition that you're trying to make sure you're grabbing your kids and bringing them back over to you after they leave for one reason or another, that they come back and the building trust, like so much of what you're doing is building this. Who was talking about the public perception of it? That that's such a big piece of everything that you do. On top of, I do this because I love kids and I want to support students and make sure, you know, I give them a place in the path for their journey in education. But on top of that, you're doing so much outside of the school building to try to build kind of a persona of your school and of what you can do to serve your students and prove to your community that you're able to support them in that way. That's that's big work. And you think about educators, we're most of us are not trained in sales and marketing tactics and in the business aspect of it. And I see it because now that I'm at I'm in a corporate world at an ed tech company, and so I see those things, and I'm like, I had no idea. And those things are things that in a public school building you just have to like learn the hard way. Or you maybe you have a mentor who's really good at it and you saw them do it really well, but that's big stuff, and that really impacts your school and your your kids' ability to continue to learn.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah. And my favorite, I think my all that was great, but Desiree said, It's me, I'm the problem solver. It's me. Like that's the new Taylor Swift. That's awesome. Desiree turned it into a that's the Taylor Swift principal version.

unknown 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

So Courtney had a lot of deep takeaways. That was literally.

SPEAKER_07 12:56

Okay, you're just thinking you're he's singing Taylor Swift in his head the rest of the time now. So that's great.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Desire definitely seemed like a Swifty. That's so true.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

You know, we Courtney and I talk about this a lot on the show that um, you know, traditional American public school is not what it was in the sense that we once had a monopoly. Kids went to, you know, if they lived in your attendance zone, they were going to your school. And so, regardless of the quality of your school, that's where families went. And and Eric, you kind of started that conversation that it's just not the case anymore. We are literally competing for kids, even if they live across the street from our school buildings. Um, and so I think that that has that is a foundational difference that I could understand as principals that you're now not you're not just running the school system as it always has existed. Now you gotta fight for kids to make sure that you you know keep your enrollment. And we know that matters because loss of kids means loss of staff means loss of everything, right? So you're literally fighting for survival um year in and year out. And I I bet it's not even year in and year out. It must be almost daily because kids can pop out of there and go to the charter or go to a private or whatever. So I understand that uh being a big, big difference for principals nowadays.

SPEAKER_07 14:15

Can I ask a quick a question off of that? I'm just curious because I remember when we were principals and Snapchat had just come out. And so we were trying to see is this something that we could use as principals to try to promote our school and what we're doing, and it was uh mess to put kindly like we found out later Snapchat is probably not the avenue you want to go with this because there's a lot of things that could happen that were not good. But I'm just curious, we all know that there's a lot of negative um stuff happening on social media and it's not great for kids and the high dosage that they're getting and the way it's rewiring the brain, all that stuff. We've seen all that research. Is there any way that y'all are using social media to try to change or adjust or feed the positive public perception that people have of your schools? Like, is that a place that you're going to for all this marketing stuff? And what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Well, if I can start off a conversation, that is definitely something that's working there at Santa Teresa High School. I started reaching out. Well, one, you post a lot of the positive things, and I use like old people social media because that's where my parents go to, that's what my kids tell me. I go to Facebook and Instagram. Okay, yeah. I go to the face and the insta. But one thing that I didn't I had been trying to get alumni, you know, because I know a lot of great alumni have left Santa Teresa High School and have done awesome things with their lives. Right. So I wanted to paint a picture to our current students and say, look, great things happen once you get out that door. So let me help you get you out that door. And so I would re reaching out to alumni, it wasn't working. This year, I guess I hit the sweet spot with graduation. I had a colleague whose son graduated from Santa Teresa and became a doctor in physical therapy. And he was, you know, bragging about his son. And I said, Hey, can you let ask him if he'd let me post his his graduation picture and and just congratulate him and you know, tell me what tribe he was from. And I kid you not, I this is the biggest response I've had. I had about 20 people reach out to me with different graduations, recent, past, and it was really good like to see you know my followers increase because they wanted to see what their you know classmates or their family members had made, and maybe people that had disconnected from the school found a little connection back. So yes, and I still use it to push out information about the school, but that was a nice little little thing. So I continue to invite people to share any success that they want to share with me, and I'll use it to to push it out.

SPEAKER_06 17:06

We also use Facebook and Instagram. Um, you definitely see trends like people love athletics, so they follow athletics. Um, we have a local newspaper that is focused on positivity that partners with our school. They've only they've been up and running for about a year, um, and that has had a significant impact. Um it it's really about highlighting the students and and we too in Perump, it's I'm my husband's family came in the 70s. It's it's there's a lot of alumni locally, um, and bringing the people in is really critical. But we we see the most return on sports and athletics um and celebrating those really positive. The other thing I will say is our parents, just like our kids, are getting so much information um electronically that we have to be careful that way too, uh, because it's overload. So I think it's really important to be intentional of when and how and and you know, any avenue that you're sending information to, like, you know, I love AI also, but like the AI flyers are overwhelming. There's so much going on, like that's the new trend, and um it's overwhelming to people, and so I think it's you have to have the right person. If like I'm not the right person uh to be posting on social media simply for time. You need a person that has the right timing and has an idea of what people are looking for to be the most successful, and you can see the return on the reaches.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Yeah. At the elementary level, um go ahead. At the elementary level, I've I'm not doing it in my current school, but it's on my list because there's a list. Um, but I had um at one of my schools and the Facebook group got pretty big where we had a large following, but basically at every grade level or every group of teachers, one of the jobs was to be a Facebook poster showcasing what our students were doing, checking our, you know, who could be and who couldn't be in social media, and then the requirement was doing it once a week. And so there was really it was systematically put out there. Um, and then that's how we got a whole bunch of followers, and that school still has quite a few followers, and that's a great way to get information out.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

That's awesome, Tabitha. The the thought of making it part of your PLC, part of your grade level expectations, because it's just a form of family communication. Like we've always asked that of teachers, right? Like be in touch with parents, and now this is sort of the new way of doing that. That's fantastic. What a great idea. And Desire, I think you're right. Everybody knows what an AI flyer looks like immediately, right? And I could see that as a parent, like that would immediately turn me off. Like, I you you didn't put any thought into this, you slapped it into an AI. So I could see that being a warning of don't overuse things that are maybe turning folks off. Sorry, sorry, both really good. I don't know if Eric or Jessica wanted to jump in on that at all.

SPEAKER_05 20:24

I I um have assigned my ITS because he actually has a marketing background, and so he helps me to kind of like condense things uh down, and so he has learned how to kind of to Desiree's point of do not overload people with information. So he's learned how to kind of proactively put some things out, and then it kind of goes out on a timer, but we use um old school Facebook, Instagram, our websites have been redone and and they can be spotlighted, like you can spotlight certain things on the website, so that's been really nice uh to be able to do, but it is definitely uh something that is used to bring people in. So when they want to come and and have a tour or something, that really does help us because um they're they're looking. And it also helps me with recruit recruitment. So so many times I've been able to get people to come and interview with me and actually accept the job over um a school right down the street because of how my social media and my website made them feel because of what was posted and how it was posted. Um they seem to feel like the energy and the culture just from the pictures and and whatever stories or things that we were that we put out. So it has helped me not just with students, but also um the uh retention and recruitment of of people to work on campus.

SPEAKER_07 22:00

We're we're probably a hard sell as far as parents because we I think was it Desiree was talking about you have to be careful how much you push out because we immediately would just start deleting too much, too much, too much. I don't want to hear to be fair, we had four kids in one school at one time. So we were getting stuff from band and cheer and dance and color guard and whatever. So it was a little crazy, but if it wasn't immediately applicable to us in the first like two lines, we were just deleting the email and probably the worst about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

We were, and then you guys are put the poor principal at our kids' school because we're super judgy. We're like, oh, this is I wouldn't do it like this. This is crazy. I I can't believe this is like 101 stuff. How can he so then it quickly went from just deleting to the judgmental conversation? And as far as we know, he doesn't listen, so it's I think it's safe. We don't we don't really care.

SPEAKER_07 22:55

It would have been better if he had.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Anyway, yeah, all of our kids graduated now, so it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_07 22:59

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Eric, we didn't want to cut you. Did you have anything to add there, or you feel good with where we're at?

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Uh I think it's like next year we're we're considering uh adding a social media coordinator type position uh on our extra duty schedule. Um people who like I'm not a social media guy. I've got Facebook for a Facebook marketplace, and that's about it. And uh it just doesn't interest me that much, but I I recognize its value. So we've identified some people on our staff who really, really enjoy it and like it, and you know, we we want to push to them. Like when we do this, it needs to be professional looking. Uh it needs to be, you know, just like when you know what people think of your school when they drive by, how does it look? Is the grass mode? Is your signs up to date? Are those things like that's a constant in-your-face um you know, expression of your district? But I the one thing I want to stress to my people is like that social media should be like the hook, but really what reels them in has got to be when they walk in your door and the interactions they have with the people inside your building. I've I've known some districts or some places or some businesses where they look great on social media, they look great on you know their their advertisements, but then when you walk in to do business there, like they're they're cold, like that, those relationships still definitely matter, and we can't rely just on social media. I think if a parent who is in our office and has a great experience in the office and they go out and tell somebody about that experience they had, I think that hopefully sells more than what's you're posting eight times a day on on Facebook. I I want that personal narrative to be equally as important.

SPEAKER_07 24:35

Absolutely. Uh that's such a great point. And we were, you were talking about using the hook. Um, we've been talking about creating a series. I didn't hear anybody mention TikTok, but um we're because most of the kids that we have, we're K-12, but most of the kids we have are in high school at this point. And so um we're considering doing a TikTok series that's like, hey, it's June. Here's what our juniors should be doing to prepare for college applications. It's September, here's what freshmen should be doing to get involved, and here's where you need to go to make sure that you're doing blah, blah, blah. So it's it's perfect for like short little videos that you would see on TikTok. And of course, then you repost them on Instagram, but like maybe if that's where you find the kids, because like we all said, we know the age that Facebook is pulling in, and it's typically not gonna be our K-12 kids. So I love all of that though, that is all super valuable, and I appreciate you guys sharing. Um, so another question to kind of take a little bit of a right turn. Can you guys share a little bit about where do you feel the greatest tension lies in your principal role right now? Like what are the biggest um issues that you're seeing or struggles that you're having, or struggles that you're seeing your friends having? Because you guys are all amazing, and I'm sure you have none struggles. And so for all the other people, you can out them and share. What where's the tension right now?

SPEAKER_06 26:07

So I can start. Um I feel like the greatest tension is that we're losing the skill of collaboration. Um so, really, again, it comes back to that problem solving that we are in this together, but again, back to the kind of social media piece. We're in a small town. Um, there are people that are, you know, really active on social media and and put out a lot of opinions, and then people uh drink that Kool-Aid. For me, I try to protect my own sanity, and so I don't jump into it, and I don't know if that's a pro or a con, quite honestly. I mean, I think not jumping into it is a pro, um, but you never really get to say your side, and so I guess that kind of comes back to the marketing piece is trying to be all the things to all people. Um, I've had a couple of situations um that were really out of my control, but that ended up on social media from our school and like trying to like just just communicate. Like, I just want to sit at a table with you, and I really believe that everything is figure outable. Like, that's my theme for next year, actually.

SPEAKER_07 27:22

T-shirts are getting made.

SPEAKER_06 27:24

T-shirts are being made. Oh, yeah. Everything is figured out. I did create the cutest logo ever, by the way, to go with it. So um, but the reality is, is like I want what's best for your child too. And I so my I just had a son graduate, but my three children have gone through my high school, so um I I'm really in it with you, and I really do what want what is best, and I think we can figure it out. And I don't know if I'm like naive or um I don't know, but regardless of who I'm working with, if it's my superintendent, my my para pros, you know, anybody in my building, I think we can communicate and figure it out. But the problem is that we are um we want to put we're a cancel culture, we want to push people out, and I just don't understand that. So, like that's my hardest tension is we all we all need each other. And if we work together, we really could achieve it. And it sounds so Pollyanna, but it really is the basic criteria to to get to that outcome.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

First, I want a shirt. I I really like that word. I don't know how to spell it, but I like it. Okay. Um and you know, jumping on what you were saying, I want to talk about I do think that people want to sit down and figure things out, but the system of things in which we operate now, like it feels you can't even sit down before you have another thing on top and another thing. And though technology is great and has improved some aspects of my job and even my personal life, like for some reason that has given people permission to their accessibility, to my time, to an answer, to a solution yesterday. And and I don't to me that's like can it just happened 20 minutes ago, ma'am. Just relax. Like, let me can I go to the restroom, get a glass of water, go talk to the person, bring in the child, and maybe call you tomorrow. And so purposely what I've done, and I know that if my parents hear this, they're gonna, you know, hunt me down, but I'm purposely not answering emails within 24 hours. Like I've made that, even if I have an answer, I draft it, but I don't send it because I need to retrain the people that I serve that yes, I will get to you, but re relax because then I don't enjoy or I don't I don't give myself the time to think things through, talk to others, you know, let cool heads prevail. But I'm I'm the problem. I I used to take pride in answering and fixing things and getting things done quickly, and now it's like hey, wait, wait, wait, I I got myself in this big old mess, so I'll get myself out.

SPEAKER_07 30:26

You are a victim of your own efficiency.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

I like what you said, um, what you talked about and having people debate now that they don't want to sit down and talk. I also wanted to add to that, I don't think people know how to communicate or how to have a um any kind of conflict and handle it respectively. I think they're used to being attacks, um which is worrisome because we do need so I I sometimes spend time with even the staff saying, okay, let's go, let's go through how you could have that conversation with somebody and what would that look like? And so just even teaching that. And then um just to go off of what our danger is, I see. Um I feel like I said this all the time when I collected everybody thinks what you do is how they know. So like maybe the custodian thinks you should be looking at all the things that are within the building, and the teachers think that you should be in watching, you know, that that's what you're everything. So it's basically figuring out um what the priorities are. And uh this last year, it was or the last two years that we've been in mandatory school. So that's that's a that's an entire different uh attention that does come up to the being in the classrooms and what the state wants. And so everybody wants these things from you. And um I think with new principles that I see sometimes is like if you don't get the systems down, um, you end up putting out fires, and I if you're burnout for principles that you can't um kind of get that priority system in place for yourself to do that for a really long time.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

I think it's kind of related to a lot of those different things, but it's helping people balance like the me and the we, and you know what what is what is really good for one student is not applicable to all students. Everybody has has their their path that they need to take uh to get to post-secondary record uh readiness, and um helping people understand that while that is good for one student and possible for one student, it may not be the best solution and option. And in a a district as small as we are, you know, with a hundred kids, nine through twelve, um they're still competitive, and um, you know, it it I think that's been that's been really hard, not just for us as central city, but a lot of districts, because I've a lot of the schools in our area are are similar in size to us, and um it's that's it's been difficult.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Um I really liked what you said, Tabitha, about having a you know, to to empathize, basically. That's what you were I I think that's what you were alluding to, you know, really understand where a person is coming from when you're trying to sit down and and make it all f figure outable or I don't know, I don't know how to say the word. But um that does that does help when you, you know, when you when you come from that when you're coming from that angle, trying to understand this angry parent, at least I remind myself, you know, they're advocating for their most precious thing. Of course they're gonna come at me with all they have. And it's not about you, but you know, just lit listen. Um and also one of my mentors always told me sometimes I feel people want what they want and I'm just in the way. And and so I I gotta not take it, you know, personal. And you know, what you said erect resonates too, right? Just because it's good for your child doesn't I'm I'm the steward of the entire school body. And so I have to look out for everyone, right? But that doesn't mean that I don't care for your child either. So um it's uh it's a fine it's a tight rope.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, it's really good stuff. And I mean it's well we're gonna we're gonna shift and force you guys to talk a little bit about staff here next. But so far you guys have talked about the politics of today's educational environment where you're basically a marketing and and you know, a marketing chief executive officer trying to keep your lights turned on by making sure your families are still choosing to bring them your children. Then you've got these tensions with technology, with people's demands on your time. Um so Tabitha's like, we're in we're in school improvement, which means the state is half dictating what I'm doing. Um Desiree, we're not gonna talk about what's going on in your area, but you guys are dealing with other issues that are drawing your attention outside of your building out of everyone's control. And and you know, so far you guys have explained this job is really almost undoable when you put it on paper. So the fact that you guys are managing it so well and giving strategies, you know, everything is figure-outable. That's quote, Desiree Vlogs. That's all of us want that teacher now.

SPEAKER_07 35:36

So and how much of that of what we've talked about to this point is actually in the job description? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Or that we went to school for.

SPEAKER_07 35:44

Yeah, or we took classes in. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah. So so just again, kudos to every one of you for the solutions you've found internally, but this is why we wanted to hear from people who are doing the job really well right now. Because I think these stories are just everywhere I travel, you know, everywhere all over our great country. This job is just really difficult. So hearing from great people doing it well. Um let's talk about staff with them. Will you throw them a staff question?

SPEAKER_07 36:11

Yes, yes. Um, let's talk about what have you learned this year about what teachers and staff actually need from leadership? Not necessarily what they're asking for, but what do they really need? What are you seeing that's like if we could provide this, then they it would make them more successful and they would accept it.

SPEAKER_05 36:39

So this last year, um I actually conducted a survey. Um, I don't want to call it a climate survey, but it was very like, what is it that you need from me? What is it that I'm feeling that isn't being said outwardly? And a lot of what they wanted was just to see me and to be present and to just be around in a positive way, and not just when I'm going into their classrooms doing a walkthrough and then giving them feedback, but it was really just to be present somewhere in the building where I could be accessible. Um and so what I started doing was sit, I have a what's called a Kinder Commons. It's just like a common space that has tables, and then you can have small groups there or or or whatnot, but I can see um my two main hallways uh whenever everyone is moving through the hallway. So I kind of just sit in the middle. And what's fascinating is that when the teachers are going and dropping kids off at specials or at lunch, and then and then they have time, they will stop and they will talk to me, and not only about things that are happening in the classroom or with a parent or or an email or something, it it could be something that's personal just to really understand what's going on outside of school, outside of work. And um, they want me to be able to understand those things, and so kind of just going back to like the themes, it's we're with each other so long, um, and we're asking so much from these wonderful educators and and asking every single day, whether it's because of the state or the district or the campus or or whatever, and then we we say we want you to take care of yourself, and they're like, How are we supposed to do all of these things? We don't know what we're supposed to do, but you're asking me for this, so I'm going to do it because it's a compliance thing. Because uh, let's just be honest, a lot of us are compliance people, and we like to do good because we did good and so we know how to play the game, right? So um I think a lot of times they just want to be able to see you. They want to know that you're going to be there to support them. And we are in a in a predicament right now in the state of Texas. I don't know if this is happening in in y'all's area, but um, we have districts all around us closing schools down. Um and it's it's causing a lot of unrest, making our teachers feel stressed about do I still have a job, do I not have a job? Um, are we going to get cut? Um, what like what's happening in around us? And so what they want to know is that you're going to be willing to put in the work next to them and to support them with whatever it is that they need to make sure that they're the best educator that they can be while still taking care of themselves and their families, um, not in the building. And so a lot of times, sometimes they just don't know, even if they've been there for 20 years. I have some staff members that have been there since the building opened. And um, it's not because they don't want to do good, it really is they just don't know um what to do. And so really figuring out what is underlying and then bringing in um kind of that professional development, even if it's on the campus to teach them, is really what they want. They want to grow too. We didn't get into the profession of education of education because we really want to stay stagnant. We really do want to learn and grow, but um we need to be able to help them and they need to know that you're helping them grow because you truly want to invest in them and see them actually blossom and not because you're trying to grow them out of the profession.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I want to follow up with um Miss Borunda in regards to the staff there at Santa Teresa High School. They want my trust, they want the flexibility for them to become the best versions of themselves. Right? There's no, I mean, theory says it over and over again. Our kids are gonna be successful as long as we the adults make the correct, you know, we work on ourselves to be the best version. That's gonna help our kiddos. And I've seen it firsthand there at ST where several of either my teachers or the administrators I've just said, okay, what what do you want to do? I have a teacher in particular, Ms. Hudsbith, who she really, really believes in the AP. She wants more kids to take AP classes, she doesn't believe it should be a barrier. She thinks all our kids are AP students. So when I first came in, she's like, Miss Sudz, this is my passion, this is what I want to do. And I said, then run with it, Sarah. You call me when you need me, tell me what you need from me. And to see where we were when it comes to the number of kids taking tests, how many kids were passing the test to where we are now. And I would love to say, I did that. I didn't do anything. All I did was listen to her, support her, give her what she needed, which was time and resources, and she flew. You know, and um like that. I don't know. I think that that's what they want. You know, they want someone to trust them, to believe in them, and to say here create that space for for them to grow, you know, have that autonomy because I tell them every meeting that we have, you're professionals. You're professionals. You know, you shouldn't need a manager, you need a mentor and someone to support you, and that's what I'm here for. Don't forget that.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

I think that's that was it was interesting for me coming in in year one. You know, the the individual that I replaced had been here for roughly 15 years and had hired most of the staff that um I have in the building, and it's it's an amazing staff. Um, but I I think as they're like evaluating me, you know, at the first two months of school, like not like whether or not I can do the job, like what type of person am I? And I I found you know, just being that support person, and I found so many teachers asking me permission to do things. I'm like, you guys need my permission, like it's a great idea, go and run with it. And uh just that the initial like feeling each other out uh piece and and then getting to know me. Um, you know, I when when you have a tough situation in your classroom with a parent and you feel supported, uh, that goes a long way with with those staff. Um, you know, behind a closed door, we can say, like, I'm not sure I would have done it that way, or you know, but like publicly, um not not throwing that teacher under the bus there is important because I mean we talked about how hard our jobs are. I I think teaching is a whole lot harder. Um and and uh respecting the people that are doing it. Um, you know, we just finding little ways that you can acknowledge the work that they're doing. Um I Mario, I think you've got one. I made these little poker chips uh that has like our school logo on it, it says, I I I appreciate you. And on the back it says, you know, keep it or pass it on. And I I got about 150 of those, and I started handing them out to staff, and next thing you know, kids have them, and just they just want somebody who can like acknowledge the work that they're doing and how hard it is, and trust them, you know, to have independent thought, but also like be able to come in and close the door and ask for support and guidance and um being okay saying like I'm not really sure I don't know but let's figure it out together. Everything's figure outable. You know? Um this is which I want a shirt too. Darn it. Um I just think that support is really important because it it's the jobs that we're all doing are incredibly hard when we're dealing with the general public and and parents' prized possessions and the the heart and soul of your community is is your school and just being that cheerleader every day um but also like having some substance to what behind what you say is important too.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:40

Desiree I know you wanted to pitch in there too yeah so what I again when I when I came to Perom Valley High School I knew there had been a lot of change in leadership and I had actually taught at the building and then I went to district office for a number of years and then came back. I never planned to my life plan was not to be a principal but that's how the cards fell and so I knew that I was going to be kind of butting up against different ideas because there hadn't been consistency for a long time obviously not intentionally but just through the leadership changes. And so that's where I came up with the success principles that were that were from like Brene Brown just um different people that I had read that I had admired. And so clear is kind is one of the principles which at the backside of that is unclear is unkind. And I think so often that we communicate and it's back to that like haste you know we're trying to plow through like every beginning of the year kind of looks and sounds the same end of year kind of looks and sounds the same and then there's that like middle ground and I think at the end of the day which is interesting because you can follow it all the way up the chain from the state level district level teacher level building administration level and all the way down to the kid like we all kind of do the same thing or have the potential to do the same thing. And so like kids kids are fully capable they have the tools like oftentimes we say kids can't read or write but they read and write all day long on their cell phones if we let them so we know their brains are totally functional. We we're just like how are we engaging them? What are we asking them to do how are we asking them to show I think it's the same thing with teachers. If all I do is prescribe and say this is the mark and I need you to hit the mark just like this yes uh to Jessica's point like we all got in this profession to some degree because we like that level of compliance and success but do you actually get to be you like I think of myself as a leader when I get bogged down in all of the minutia my strength is creativity like I love to be creative. I love to find like different ways to do things that was my favorite part of the classroom but when I'm bogged down I don't get to do that and then I'm like just tell me what to do and I'll do it. Again that's that balance that I'm fighting with myself like no no no that's not me that's not why I'm doing this work. But I think teachers are asking to like love them, know them get to know like we're all people dealing with lots of challenges sometimes I sit in my building and I just think man that person's dealing with their mom's cancer diagnosis. That person just lost their child this person you know like there's so much trauma and we just want you to plow forward and we're in education to take care of people. So why would we do that? But back to Tabisa's point we don't know how to deal with the conflict so we ask you how you are and then we move on because we don't want to be uncomfortable or you're telling us you know there's so much judgment that goes on with teachers from administration to teachers or teachers to teachers kids to teachers teachers to parents and it's not helpful. We're all dealing with it. We all don't like I have my own teenagers and I'm like I don't know I don't I tell my kids like I didn't get this training you're my first but I love you and I know that part of loving you is figuring it out with you and that's how I feel with my staff like I love you and together and I don't they might think I'm weird I tell my seniors like I love you and they might think that's weird and there's a lot of them 250 to 300 but I think that's where it starts I think people want to be understood like the tokens we did a similar thing with ducks and like it went nuts like we had little plastic ducks everywhere um last year for graduation a every kid handed me a duck they were falling all over the place um people want to be seen and they want to be known and and it's our job to figure out how to do that.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Wonderful Miss Tabitha we haven't heard from you do you want to pitch in on this yeah I would I love the token everybody what everybody said I completely agree with. I also like in summary I think that they want to be heard and validated they want to be involved and to take it to the next level they want to be working towards something really important. And I can think about um Mario in the book I can tell you that um I got a new assistant principal this year so I just I had her come in and work or she she she introduced herself to every single person in the building and asked her the questions to develop core values. And so we did that and that has been a huge hit and everyone said they loved the individual meeting they loved to be heard and everybody got to be part of developing those core values and now that is how we interview and we've even I I I'm confident we we got some of the people um to be our teachers because we she Courtney said this is who we're looking for and she went through the core values with them and then so that when we sorry tab with that was cheering for you because that's that's right out of the playbook but yeah anyways I feel like we it's really important that and they'll say are you ready? We have an important mission that we're gonna be on here to say are you on board this is what it's not going to be easy because I'm selling my school that's a mandatory school improvement.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

You have to do all these extra things and I might be telling you things that you need to get better at and I'll make it change and so that's a lot so that there's something I need to not get the right people Yeah that's wonderful because I I would like to just piggyback quickly because I don't want to steal too much time but can we whip around quickly because this was all wonderful and I I loved what every one of you said basically that the way you're supporting your staff is through relationships, making them feel seen and heard and valued and supported and all of you share different ways you're doing that from sitting in a common area to passing out coins and ducks and providing clarity for them. Okay great. Now just quickly let's whip around how do you handle it when somebody still does not meet their job expectations. In other words I hear this a ton how are we holding staff members accountable for the good of the group so let's see if we can whip around on this one because I know this could take a long time but just if you could if you could give people that that hear this episode because that's the thing I hear the most honestly guys as I travel is so Mario we set up core values and we set up a great climate and we listen and we do but there's still people who refuse to get on board or won't do their work the the way that our children need it. What do we do? So let's just kind of quickly whip around what's one piece of advice you'd give other principals, other leaders how do we hold people accountable inside of this caring, kind loving valuing space I can start so I think back to my original question answer like first you have to know you.

SPEAKER_06 52:17

You have to know what you stand for. You have to communicate those expectations with clarity and then you have to hold people tight to that expectation. So it's not personal it's grounded in truth. So if we all agreed upon this and you know what it looks like first I'm gonna check in with you just like I would with a kid right like hey we agreed upon this are you doing this no okay what can you do better? Eventually I'm gonna have to go down that policy side but I'm gonna do everything I can I think when in my first years as an administrator I always kind of felt bad because I didn't want to do that. But now generally I don't feel bad because I was very clear with you in the front and I tried to provide the support and once you get to this point it's not personal. It is grounded in truth it's out of alignment with where we're going and again even with student discipline I still love you.

SPEAKER_05 53:09

However sometimes is me applying the rules and it's at whatever level that is so holding tight to building the vision around what it is and then holding people accountable to that not my opinion I agree with what she said sorry um what Desiree said and going back to Tabitha your core values we do the exact same thing with interviewing um and then me kind of being a steward of the core values we all have agreed upon this that the campus created the core values and so that's what we lead with but um when someone's kind of not pulling their weight and they're not doing what they should be doing we need everyone else to trust that we're going to take care of those things and so first and foremost I think having um a conference with that person and really bringing them in and figuring out what is going on is there's something that isn't working um doing those walkthroughs trying to see if there's something that you can get feedback see if it works if not then saying I'm going to pair with you we're gonna go watch together we're going to debrief okay now I'm going to pair you with um my lead teacher coach you're going to go in a safe environment because it's not it's non-evaluative with this person to go and watch we I may even have the lead teacher coach go into that classroom and model the lesson then maybe myself or one of my assistant principals will model how it should look um in the classroom for that teacher and then usually that's kind of worked because I do always begin with the end like if these things do not happen whenever we're in a private conference together this is what could happen but we're all here for kids. Kids are first we need to be doing what we're supposed to be doing for kids and then if it doesn't work out this is where we could lead to um which would mean some sort of memo some sort of growth plan and then a plan and then it could lead to non-renewal. So they kind of know that those things could eventually happen um and but all of the other strategies and things that we've done in the past have kind of mitigated that not saying that it's 100% perfect but um I'm just asking for growth and willingness to try and if not then you know maybe it's just not where you want to be but always keeping those core values um at the center of our conversations and making sure kids are first.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

I think we are having those with oh go ahe go go ahead Genon thank you um I was gonna say I'll be the first to admit that you're you're right having the conference is is the first step. I mean you need to talk to the person you need to figure out what what's going on where the misalignment is happening. For me, even though I know that that is the answer it still takes a lot. Right? So I've uh me and my best friend you know chat chat chat PPT sit down and I script and I tell it my problem and I tell it okay but it you know I I I don't want to feel I I I'm feeling bad about this what what you know what if they say this what if they say that so I've gone to that and then I've pushed myself and I've put that on my calendar like you're gonna talk to this person on this day and you're gonna follow up because because it's so uncomfortable for me I have to take that extra level so and for all everybody out there that's feeling uncomfortable I'm right there with you but if you don't have those conversations it's not fair for them I was gonna say I apologize for mispronouncing your name Hema um the you know when we're having those conversations I'd I I think back to a movie clip from Moneyball.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

Alright this is a weird analogy but when Brad Pitt and his protege they're gonna tell somebody that he's traded and he he tells his protege he's gonna tell him he's traded and Brad Pitt's character tells him go in, rip the band-aid off be brief tell him it and then have him go and I think about those tough conversations that I have initially because people are going to have an emotional reaction to that and because we're uncomfortable sometimes we say too many words and it gets complicated and they get lost in what the real message is. So when I have to do those I I tell the the individual whether it's a a teacher or a student like you know I care about you but we got to have a tough conversation right now. And you tell them exactly what it is and you give them time to process and they're gonna have an emotional reaction.

SPEAKER_03 57:50

They're gonna spew and they're gonna say things that they probably wouldn't normally say but that's you have to know and anticipate they're gonna have that emotional reaction and that's okay because sometimes when I get mad I get surprised like I say things I probably shouldn't say either and so just allowing people to have have that space and then you know be direct be clear let them have their moment and then if they need to go let them go and then come back say let's come back to this tomorrow and then give them time to process and a lot of times I found people like you know you're right you know uh thinking about you know what you gave me yesterday and then okay how can we work together uh to to work these things through yeah I would say that um with you is one of the hardest things and I remember when I first ended up ship I just started it and I actually did avoid it and that caused us two problems. And so I had to uh my core values are integrity and connection and with my integrity I'm like you gotta do the right thing even though it's hard. And so um sometimes it starts with getting the outlet outlook sending it appropriately because we have union rules and all that that we have to do but just doing it and then um approaching it when I train in assistants or um aspiring principles I always say um you need to approach it as you're really your job is to help or find out why or be curious about what why aren't they doing it here's the expectation here's where I need you to be is it is it a knowing do you not know how how can I help you and if you approach from that supportive like we're gonna coach you up um you know best case scenario is that they thrive and they have learned something new and they rise at the occasion otherwise in the worst case scenario you did everything that you could and you really tried and then sometimes it becomes very clear what needs to happen next. So um I yeah it's it the biggest thing though is that it needs to the conversation needs to happen and it needs to be done you know professionally and with thought beforehand but um if you don't do it that's what problems are going to happen.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:06

Yeah. I love all of that and it makes me think about when I and these were teachers that I had a relationship with so I wouldn't do this with someone that I was initially having like a first conversation but if I had to have a difficult conversation with a teacher or especially an assistant principal that was like hey this did not go well then I would start out asking them hey we're gonna have a tough conversation how much sugar coating do you need and I don't know why but that kind of brought it down a little bit to where it was like okay we're just we're gonna get through this conversation together and never dot ever ever did they say I need all the sugar coating. Like nobody ever said that. They all were like nope just give it to me just tell me what you need to say and so then that for whatever reason gave me like the mental permission to be super honest and open with them. And I don't know what it was about that one question but it just seemed to deflate the room a little bit and like bring it down. And because it can be very intimidating to be like I have to have this tough conversation. I know I'm not perfect. I don't do everything just right but I have to come and tell this person that they messed up a thing or didn't do it well or we need to get on an improvement plan whatever it is. I don't know. So I always found that that kind of helped me in those conversations but again it was always that was always with either my APs or teachers that I knew and I I wouldn't just come out the gate or a teacher that was already contentious I would not have that same kind of conversation but that was always helpful.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Well I think you need to bring that into this relationship.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:43

She never sugar coats anything to me and I need high levels of you need all the sugar I don't I don't get that question.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

She just gives it to me straight every time and I'm like hey I didn't know it was an option to ask for a little sugar coat the problem is you don't realize it's already sugar coated.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Oh that is sugar coated oh jeez oh no now you guys are watching me melt down in real time and I want to with Courtney um I learned this from Brene Brown which is also the way I start some of my difficult conversations always say the story I'm telling myself is and that has really has helped me because it it kind of it's not about them it's about the way I'm perceiving things and so help me tell me if what I'm saying to myself is correct or not.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:27

Yeah the perspective that I have is blah help me understand what part of that picture is correct or is incorrect. Absolutely yeah that's great too yeah really really great suggestions.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

Yeah wonderful well just for timing's sake did you have another yeah I don't want to end on that question. No I wasn't gonna end on that question.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:47

Oh well I was gonna pick another one. Okay you go you're in charge yeah you are in charge no I just want to hear because I know we're coming up on time we're actually over time but if y'all could go around real quick and just say what's your like real quick what's the favorite part of the job? Like the thing that you love the most about the job why do you come back year after year? Eric why are you coming back next year?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:10

Tabitha why are you coming back for year 19 as a principal what is it that brings you back I would say our our doors open at 745 class starts at 8 that time between 725 when staff is rolling in and eight o'clock when the kids are there I just I give a lot of high fives walking around the building seemingly people need that just the the people it's a hundred percent the people in that the energy like bringing some energy in the morning like the the jokes that you cracked with the kids and the staff and checking in how were people it just for sure it's that love it I would also say that that is one of my favorite times but I'll say something different um while yes it is the people my the other favorite thing that I have and I really didn't know because I feel like I'm so student centered but becoming an administrator and and going into my 11th year of being outside of a classroom being a teacher of children and now being a teacher of adults my most favorite thing is when the staff and the teachers or even your assistant principals or counselors or whoever learn something new, get excited about it and they want to keep on trying I I would love to think that I'm a multiplier and that I'm multiplying really good people and nothing makes me more excited than when adults learn something new when they ask questions because they're curious and they're willing to jump off my stuff always say Jessica I'll jump off a volcano you're like hey there's a volcano let's jump off of it and I'm like yeah let's go and like the cliff you're going into like it's added that's literally what they tell me and I'm like yes that's what I want we need to be excited we need to be energetic we need to try new things um and when I see my staff do that and it works and it works well and we get to showcase that on campus it's like my kids my what I call my personal kids on Christmas morning and they just got their best present ever and then like you just want to cry with tears of joy. That's exactly how I feel um and that's why I continue doing what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:43

I love it. Your shirt for next year just needs to be like Volcano jumping club and it's people just jumping.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:49

I'll see who wants to be the um in the club. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

These slogans are fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

You guys we didn't plan for that. Yeah we we're gonna have be making t shirts all year.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:59

I I Ditto both of what Jessica and Eric and Eric said, and I don't want to say the same thing, even though it is kind of the same thing, but the thing that excites me the most is the what if. Right? After being so many years in education, those stories of what they accomplished, students, staff, and I always think like, I wonder what this class is gonna do. I wonder where this teacher's gonna end up, or my principal and the assistant principal who's now principal, just the the future, the hope, that's what I get excited about when they come back and they tell me and to think that maybe I had one little grain of salt of impact on that on that outcome. Of all the million ways it could have ended up, this is how it ended up, and I played a very small part in it. That that makes my heart big.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:52

I love that, Helen. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:56

Actually, I agree with all of you when I'm a teacher, I was born a teacher. Like it's in my blood, and I love to see people succeed and see what they can do that's better than what I ever did. Um, but there's this one thing that I do, and that is with students, and it's usually on Fridays, and we play music in the lunch room, and um the fifth graders, it's usually the fifth graders is who I focus on, but they all there's nothing better than watching first graders dance to a thought after they get their lunch or the fifth graders doing cha-cha slide, and then you doing it with them, and then looking and seeing the cooks doing it, and then looking and seeing the paraprofessionals, the teachers who are picking up their students, and so just that joy and fun and that way to connect with students, it makes it a lot easier when I get on top of something because they we've had fun together, we've built that relationship, and it's like I'm their parent at school, which is exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:56

So thank you. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

All right, Desiree.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:01

You're a brave soul, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:04

Um my cafeteria monitor wanted to do that, and I said, absolutely not. Shut it down.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:11

Well, here you go, Jessica. Here's your chance to grow. And you should see Tabitha School in February because they are in the minus 1440 degrees in snow suits. So I can't believe y'all are dancing out in all that, Tabitha.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

Yeah, Mario um learned about snow snow pants. He didn't even know what they were told.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:30

No, if you're a southerner, you have no idea when you watch little five-year-olds putting on these giant suits that look like hazmat suits. I I thought we were under some sort of crazy like chemical spill. I asked Tabitha, Am I in danger? She's like, they're going out to recess, dude. Relax, they're putting on their snow suits. I had no idea what the heck that was. So I get cultured as I fly around the country. All right.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

That's because we cancel recess here.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Yeah, yeah. No, they go out at minus 400 degrees. They're still not like she's nope, we're going outside.

unknown 1:08:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Sorry, Desiree. Take us home. What is your what is your joyous share for principals listening?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:07

So honestly, like, I I this is so deep, but it's me. Um, I really feel like I was called to this work. Like, when I look at my life's plan, this really was not what I had thought the plan was going to be. But I just think of the impact of education on my life. And when I get to see like kids light up or their paths, so like I don't do littles. Like I was never built for elementary. I know that was certainty. Uh like boogers, no thank you. Um like I love hard kids, and I actually have grown to love hard staff because I think just like we've all talked about, like, I love the sugar coating because I think most people really want the truth, but we're so conditioned to like hamburger it that the messaging is lost, and people do want to grow. And so if you can lean into them and truly be a support to them, you can get them, you know, places. And sometimes, like, even explaining to teachers, you know, they're failing my class, and the teacher's taking it so personally. And I'm like, maybe the best lesson you can give them is that you're not going to judge them for this, you're gonna hold them accountable to it. However, you're gonna love them through it, and maybe that lesson back is that man, everybody else was blowing smoke at me or telling me what I was as a result of this stuff, and and this person was consistent with me. And so, like, I've had some really hard things in this role that have made me question like, what in the world am I doing? Um, but I always go to myself and I'm like I'm a list maker. Like, what I really love about school is school supplies, like, let's be real. Um but in addition to that, so that I go to my list and I like okay, why am I doing this? Why am I in this work? And I just know this is where I belong because I love the work. I love the heart of the work.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:09

Thank you. Love that. Can I tell you my favorite?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

Please, would you?

SPEAKER_07 1:11:14

It's not that deep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Well, Desert is a good deep human.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:18

I know, I know. These are really quality people. My favorite was the moment at a Friday football game where I was on the field and the kids were behind me, and it was usually the baseball team was like the loudest, rowdiest in the stands. And we had it, we had a good student section at my school. And they would say something that just verged on the edge of inappropriate, but it was actually really clever and super funny. And I had to turn around and give them the look and then be like, sorry, Miss Acosta. And then they would stop, but I would turn around and it like it took everything in me not to laugh because I was like, dang, that was good. That was a good burn. Like that was legitimate a good burn. Just the kids and the stupid stuff that they did that you had to try not to laugh at, but could turn around and be like, guys, and they're like, No, we're sorry. Because you have those are the kids that you build the relationships with, right? That was my favorite when they just edged on the verge of inappropriate. You call them on it, they stop it. And in that moment of trying not to laugh at them, that was my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

Uh sure. I mean, for me, I was definitely uh a student-centered principal, so I became somewhat of the school mascot. Our school was really we had a Native American mascot, and in the era I was there, there was a lot of political infighting about are we allowed to or are we not? So when I took over the school, school spirit was not high. We were an academic-focused school, and one of the things my community said was, hey, we need to bring these kids like to high school. They need to not, it needs to not all be about academics all the time. So I was kind of this almost like a radio jockey at the at the school. Just it was the personality, and and so I loved, loved being sort of Mr. Westwood, and it was with the parents, with the kids, with the teachers. I just became like a I mean, mascot is probably the best description, but yeah, you get to be around the kids and the and the and even the teachers. They took on this like he is the energy, he's the sort of the energy source that's gonna drive us forward. So that was a lot of fun to to be, you know, this this support for so many. Um, and of course, you guys probably feel this as principals. We just set the stage and then you let your great people do great things, and so that was fun to for me to just set the energy and set the systems and then let everybody run and do the things they did. It was fun to stand back and watch that energy emanate. Um, so that was probably for me what that felt like.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:53

So well, you picked a good group of course of principles.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

We appreciate you guys taking the time to, you know, in your summer vacation, some of you literally on a vacation, so that's dedication to the craft, and the rest of you just giving of your time to us is very meaningful. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:09

Thank you guys very much. We appreciate all your input, all your feedback, everything that you shared. We just really appreciate it, and your continued support of other educators is so valuable. So thank you guys for your time.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

And we wish you nothing but a great start to your 26-27 school year. So we're sure you guys will do a great job reopening the school year in the fall.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

All right, guys, thank you for your time. Everybody take care.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:36

All right, thank you. Thank you guys. Bye, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:39

That was a lot of fun just hearing from great principals, right? That's a really good group of folks.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:44

It is a really great group, and I I just love hearing from other people. It's really um, what's the word? Uh it it just makes you feel good and like you're not the only person dealing with some stuff, and you're not the only one that's heard the same thing, and you know that other people are in the same boat that you're in.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Validating and and um thinking there's like uh even a uh it's like a fulfillment in that. Like it's just there's other great people lifting heavy like you are, you're not the only one lifting heavy, right? So I think that that's pretty neat. And I mean, I'm just so lucky that that's the type of person that I work with every day that I get to travel.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:21

It's a good gig, man. Yeah, it's really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:23

To say, you know, as much as we talk about everything that's wrong with schools and then society and all that, that's to me what I love is you you I fly around this country, and those are five great principles, but I work with hundreds, right? Yeah, and that's those are the types of people I work with. So for anybody listening, when you're on your hardest days and you're like, am I alone? A, you're not, and B, there's so many good people doing so much good work, and evidenced by just five of them that we were able to recruit to join us late on a summarizing.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:55

I know, and it just makes me think of how do you build your community around you so that you have supports. I know we talked about that way early on in in past episodes, but the importance of just building that community of other educational leaders around you that are high quality that you can continue to bounce ideas off of and learn from and commiserate with sometimes. And I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Yeah, such a great point. And so maybe those five have created the Ed Leadership Pair Principal Network. Oh, we got a network. So if you want in on that, we're happy to reach out to us. But no, we appreciate you guys. We know this episode was longer than our summer shorts, but we hope that hearing from so many good leaders spread around the country and different perspectives was valuable to you. So if you made it this far with us in today's episode, we are grateful to you for you know dedicating that much time to learning from other great leaders around the country. So we appreciate you for doing that. We also have to say thank you to Marzano Resources and Solution Tree for supporting us. It's time for us to sign off, and we'll see you guys in future episodes.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:59

I am Mario and I'm Courtney, and this is the Edit Leadership Air Podcast. Thanks for listening.