From Mistrust To Meaning: The New Medicine

What if the future of healthcare isn’t about smarter algorithms, but about remembering what care feels like? We open the door to a health renaissance where evidence meets essence, and people are treated as whole beings with bodies, minds, and souls. This is a frank, funny, and fiercely humane conversation about why trust in institutions has cracked, how lifestyle medicine is finally taking center stage, and where AI fits—as a tool for logistics, not a replacement for presence.

We unpack the cultural whiplash of the last few years, from rigid slogans to lived experiences that didn’t match the script. Along the way, we explore the rise of prevention, the power of food and sleep, the quiet force of relationships and community, and the role of “controlled trauma” like surgery to buy time for deeper repair. We don’t shy away from controversy or complexity; we insist on open inquiry, transparent data, and space for questions that lead to better care.

Our vision is practical and bold: conventional medicine sharpens emergency and surgical excellence; integrative teams guide nutrition, movement, breath, and trauma processing; and a new “multiversity” brings maverick scientists and indigenous teachers together to test ideas, share language, and scale what works. Healing becomes a partnership. The patient becomes the protagonist. Illness turns from verdict into teacher, helping people rediscover purpose and coherence in daily life.

If you’re ready to imagine a healthcare system that serves humans, not just metrics, join us. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who needs a hopeful reframe, and leave a review with the one change you believe would make care more human.

Chapters

• 0:00 Tempo: 60.0

Transcript

Tempo: 60.0

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Well, welcome back to episode five of Doctors No More. That's NO, in case you didn't know that already. And this is the first time you're hearing us, go back to the first episode and play them all. We think they're all good. And in some way, we've managed, the professionals we are, to actually sort of link them together and have a you know a sort of natural progression, uh, as well as hopefully remaining interesting. And today's episode is no different. So I'm joined, as usual, by my great friend Gareth, aka Doc Thomas, um, a brilliant dentist, but his true superpowers are in the field of what I call uh uh um you know non-physical or energy, and and he really is very experienced, and he continues to teach me in our many private conversations. Um so welcome, welcome back, uh Doc Thomas.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Thank you, Jay Doc. That's really nice. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

Yeah, but that's my Kevin and Pep. We were talking about this. That's that's my new handle. Was it?

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yeah, I it's um you know, I I I it you know it's been nice about these the last sort of um uh I think this is the fifth one now. Yeah. Uh is this it there's a sort of organic flow to it.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

You know, and I think that um that suits me because sometimes I think that if if you you know, if you have too much structure, structure's fairly good, but if you have too much of it, you it doesn't allow you to move into areas where you might not move to, yeah, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Oh, uh absolutely. And you know, I I I kind of jest in private that my whole career has been professionally winging it. And what I mean by that is I went once I sort of started to see the problems that you and I are well aware of and and trying to prevent, sorry, not prevent, but provide solutions for that, I I wanted to be unprofessionally professional, you know, or professionally unprofessional. And what I meant by that was I didn't want to lose the humanity and the spirit of who I was in the in the doctoral. In fact, in fact, I went out knowing how frightened people normally are sitting in front of quote unquote professionals, you know, and I took my my osteopathic white cut off, which was my first training years ago, because I realized it was intimidating people. And I just wanted to get that humility and that humanity of two human beings, and that sort of morphed into me being, you know, I mean, Natalie and I, my wife, have a have a game when we see people and we go, if if somebody, if, if, if this famous person had a love child with this famous person, this is what they'd look like, and it's a hilarious game that we play. But in me, I describe myself if if Billy Connolly had a love child with Gordon Ramsay, that would be the professional I am. So, you know, I swear and tell jokes, but it's been very, very successful in in reaching the human beings. And and actually on that note, it's probably a good way to segue into what we're talking about today, which is the future of medicine and what that looks like. Um, and I suppose before, and the spirit of what that is, because it for me it transcends the Maha movement, um, the Make America Healthy Again. In fact, it should be Miha, make everyone healthy again, or perhaps it should be make everyone whole again, you know, when we can discuss that. But, you know, before we move on to that, which really could be many episodes, I think we have to have a sort of snapshot of where we are right now, because there's such a division, excuse me, in the world from you know, evidence, so-called evidence-based medicine and trust the science, to, you know, um if if you're anything other than that, you're an anti-vaccing, anti-science quack. So there's a real chasm, you know, uh between these two fields. But I I wanted to just start and then, you know, please dive in. As I see it, if I was a a businessman trying to find the next trend so that I could capture it and and uh invest in it and be part of it and profit from it, you know, you would tend to look at what markets are starting to change or collapse, and what markets are starting to emerge early on, and and you want to catch that wave and ride it for as long as possible. The dot coms would be an example of that, or any kind of gizmo that came in and had a you know its period of like everybody had one and then went away. So that's how I want to view it. And for me, and and I think it is not just my skewed, obvious um perception of it, but since you know what I call the convid era, um, if you were to look, and I and I know this is audio, but I'm holding up two my two hands as moving sort of barometers, if you looked at what's happened in the last five years, um, from a point of view of um vaccine trust, which is just just go there. Those that refused the uh uh COVID vaccine are absolutely relieved and strengthened that they didn't take it, and even more um uh uh standing on a stronger foundation that what they experienced was the antithesis of you know not science and uh pressure from authorities and and even worse than that. And at the same time, so their strength has increased, and at the same time, there are millions that that appear to be uh aware that their health was uh damaged by these things or or loved ones have left this, even left this realm. And so there's been a a decrease on the side of those who who were certainly never labeled conspiracy theorists, just ordinary folk living ordinary lives, you know, trusting the the what I call the telele vision and and you know, having normal lives, but there has been a massive increase in the in the destruction of their confidence in medicine and and also meds, you know, quote unquote science. And so what I see is this movement, again, back to the business wave, of an increase in skepticism. You know, I believe, you know, at the beginning of COVID, probably 80-90 percent of people in the um the standard medical health care believed the pandemic, believed in everything. And at the end of it, it's certainly to the doctors and nurses and surgeons and consultants that I spoke with, it had almost flipped to the other way. Probably about 70% knew it was it wasn't a pandemic and didn't trust the vaccine, but they didn't want to lose their jobs. So, as I hand over to Gareth, the snapshot that I see if I was a businessman is a continued and accelerating collapse in the trust of medicine and quote unquote evidence-based science, and not necessarily a conscious uh investment in so-called holistic health, but certainly, you know, it seems that people like you and me and other doctors like us are gaining much more interest, you know, including some of the the the big wigs out there that have been on social media for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

What what say you I think I I mean I look at uh that era and I I see it if I if I look at it from a uh collective point of view, um I mean that's a big a big uh happening where the whole planet acted in a certain way, and that's a result of um communications like technology, TV, media, um and I don't know, maybe it's happened a long, long, long time before if if if if there was technology like that many, many, many eons ago. But in our in our history that we know of, that's never happened before. Right. Never. So you you've got the whole consciousness of the planet behaving in a certain way, um, and then it comes to light that the the way that the information has been given to the the masses of people is false, that then allows for reflection and a large number of people to actually say, actually, if we've been lying about this, then our trust has to shift in a certain direction. And I can see it. I mean, it it's it's manifesting in in medicine in in a different way as well, because uh, you know, with the the advent of AI, you know, you can foresee that GPs will be less needed. So everything will be AI driven. And I don't think people want that when it comes down to healthcare.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Well, it's definitely showing that it's a we discussed in the last episode that modern medicine success was because it was at best set up as a business model, and AI replacing doctors is is is the you know wet dream of a pharmaceutical CEO.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, but the the the actual it's in the word it's in the word or phrase health care. To care, you have to have at least two people. One who cares and one who needs the caring, you know, sort of skill of another person.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Can you show me a study to prove that?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

No, the the studies are like thousands of years old, but it goes back to the beginning of the time, probably when you know uh the first sort of stone-age child sort of fell over, and his mum picked him up and rubbed his knee, or his dad said you'll be fine. Yeah. And put maybe put a an o a a leaf on it or something, or something else. I don't know. So the the the the natural caring um capacity of of of people we need that. We just it's just an integral part of who we are. Now, in terms of how has the last four or five years had an effect on how we do that, I know there's a a large erosion of trust in uh what's termed the the conventional medical profession. Um which means that people are probably more open to looking for how do they look after their own health in other ways.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

You say you know, sorry to interrupt you, but but what how do you know? Because you're in the conventional medicine.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

I've heard from colleagues that you know um there's less less attendance to um uh GP practices. I think people are less uh willing to take up treatments. And there is an increase in people's interest in um what uh people would call holistic or complementary um healthcare. And and not just that, is there's an increase in um people looking towards you know consciousness and the link between consciousness and health and how we think. I mean that that's that's mirrored in medicine or conventional medicine, in in what's termed now as um lifestyle medicine, which is the medical professional realizing that things like how you what you eat, what you do every day, how you think, you know, how you behave has an effect on your health. I mean, uh people have been screaming that for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

Uh yeah, and and and being adversely, you know, um attacked over having conversations or I mean I look, I could tell you a gazillion stories, but I I remember um helping someone with with terrible intestinal issues that we got well, and we normally do get them well, and they being to a consultant, um, what would be the word, enterologist. I can't remember what the the name is um for someone who specializes in digestion right now. And she suggested, could it have anything to do with her diet? And he just laughed in her face and said, Don't be ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

You know, yeah, and of course, I mean, I hope anybody listening.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

You know, hang on, hang on, hang on. I had this image of me going to the the mechanics, right? Yeah, and I yeah, I've I've I can't drive it, you know. And uh then kind of is there and he's looking at the car and he says, Oh um uh yeah, it's the engine has gone, you know. And I said, But the the front tire's flat. Do you think it has anything to do with the front tire?

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Ridiculous, you know who I am? Ridiculous, I'm a mechanic, for God's sake.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

But but this is really critical, and and and we're laughing, but that was a real human being I'm talking about, and it is funny. Funny because if you don't laugh, you're angry, and I've I've tried to transmute all the anger from all the stories, yeah, tens of thousands of stories I've heard and and into passion and and turn that into positive change. But yeah, on the subject of your talking about, how do you know, you know, um uh irrespective of what your thoughts are on RFK Jr. and whether he's just shepherding you with Trump into an AI social credit store, or whether he is, um, which is what I believe, trying to establish true science and actual data to show people um how sick they are and what's made them. He just last week, I think it was, excuse me, he just last week gave a 14-minute presentation, which I think is historical. And yes, the last four minutes or so was still sort of we're still going to maintain a vaccine schedule. But the threat wasn't there of you have to, because I think it's like 70 vaccines American children are having now up to 12 years old. And and the worst of those is that they give them in multiple shots. But nonetheless, he showed, and this is what's historical, and the energy and the pattern which we're going to talk about, which you know transcends Maha. He showed the previous government or the Senate or whoever it was, showing, and I've seen you've seen these graphs, I've seen these graphs, and I've explained how fraudulent and it really is BS bad science or fraudulent science, to be honest with you. They're showing these graphs of all the um diseases that have been eradicated from vaccines. And this is the this is the wonderful, and I was like, went, oh my god, I can't believe this happened. He then showed uh the true graphs and what really caused, you know, the the massive demise in these um diseases. And he's not going into detail that I go into, uh, which is far more interesting, I think. But he is showing, which you know, and anybody who's really looked into the causes and and the uh how to heal things, that most of those, not no, all of those diseases were eradicated by sanitation primarily, i.e., sewage, because it used to be raw and running down the street and overcrowding, nutrition, because agriculture got more able to produce more nutrition. Yes, arguably toxins came in and less nutrient, but nonetheless, there was more food readily available and less stress. Um, refrigeration, which is a huge one, and uh central heating. You know, central heating in and of itself pretty much got rid of pooping cough. And so I was just gobsmacked. But here we have arguably one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful voice in which direction, you know, science and medicine and evidence-based medicine going to go, destroying this, for me, the sacred cow of the graphs that support vaccinations, which I believe have caused more disease than anything else. And if that's not a sign of you know, the the the change is is occurring, that we're even able to see this from someone of his importance and the discussion that that kicked off. I don't know what is.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah, I mean there's always a lot of um conversation and and conflict between um what's happening in you know the mainstream. I think it's like people go, oh, they're controlled, or you know, they're just leading us this way or that way. But I I I mean I tend to try and remove myself from it all and just and look at it from a point of view of what's been talked about. And yeah, I mean, I the first time I really got into the idea that um uh vaccines and and medicines um are harming people was, you know, over 25 years ago. Yeah. And I've waited that long for it to become a mainstream conversation.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah, right back in here.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

And uh the the amount, I mean I I watched um him defend himself when he took over that position, that role of the head of healthcare. And uh now it's either brilliant sort of theatre in terms of people trying to you know denigrate him and he's defending himself, or he's you know, there's a genuine character there that cares about certain things. I think what happens is that these you're talking about people who who go into systems that are entrenched with uh corruption, entrenched with people. 100%. So it it takes time for things to change. And let's say it is controlled, um but if people listen to it, they're actually hearing uh you know evidence that's contrary to what they're trying to do. So that that's reaching more people. I mean, I I would say um I know that uh one of the biggest studies that that was um hidden, and there's uh a film coming out about it from the highwire, um, which is um an inconvenience study, which will be released, I think, this month. That's Del Big Tree. Yeah, that's Dell Bigtree. That's the the study that they asked uh one of the the main you know epidemiologists, top guy, not an amateur, top guy in one of the main institutions, uh, to do a study between vaccinated and unvaccinated and compare their health. If he really wanted to show that you know vaccines are good for health, compare it to non-vaccinated.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

So and this was a a big study, not a few hundred people, thousands of people, thousands of of people who've you know been vaccinated, unvaccinated to the comparison. And the guy came out and said, Well, you know, the uh the unvaccinated are are four to five hundred percent more healthy than the the vaccinated. And he said, Well, are you gonna you know put this study out? Are you gonna publish it? No, I can't. And he met with him in in secret with a a microphone and uh a hidden camera, and he he he he basically says I can't put it out because I'll lose my job.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

This is so the truth is he won't. He he of course he can, but this is what we saw with all doctors and nurses in COVID.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

But what's happened now? There's there's a film about it, and it's gonna come out, the truth about it. And for me, I I I've never seen these things happening in such a short space of time.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

You know, you take about you look at Andy Andy Wakefield, right? The guy who said oh MMRs linked to autism. They they destroyed him, or they tried to destroy him, right? Um, and that was um, I don't know what how long was that, 20, 20, 25 years ago, something like that?

SPEAKER_03 23:20

It it must be, and and there's proof, you know, there's proof for sure that if they hit back so strongly that there is a red flag.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

What what I love about that is that person had you know had the courage to stand up and say this is not right, lost all his position, which is probably a good thing because he probably didn't want to end up being in that that right you know realm anyway. He's found his own way in another way, but that thought, that initial thought of truth, has taken 25 years to really become bigger and mainstream. Yeah, you know, so people are talking about autism and and vaccines now, aren't they?

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Oh, oh, it's fantastic. And and I remind the audience. 25 years, yeah. You know, so it's starting to snowball. It it is snowball, and and you know, the core of this podcast is energy patterns, harmonics.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Yeah, so it it tells me it tells me that that thought and that energy that wants health to change into what is actually healthy for people. What is good for people, that has to come in because then if that comes in, that thought, and it's more mainstream, and people start really looking at what is really healthy, then people have better lives. If we have better lives, we have people who are happier, less conflict, less conflict, less war, less war, more peace, more peace, more happiness. People have a better existence on this planet.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Well, and you have to springboard off of what you just said, you know, and by the way, you know, uh the core of what naturally better is, which is which is, you know, my main project and thing, is to restore the health of the husband and wife, um, and strengthen the marriage and strengthen the family because strong families get strong communities, strong communities get strong societies, strong societies, strong nations. And all of that, off of what you just said, leads to less significantly dispeaked because disharmony, you know, we all want harmony, you know, we all want harmonious life, and the lack of it, which is what most people are living. You know, I I've taken on a chat recently, not that I'm going to give any details. You know, I really love it when a guy reaches out because it's usually 90% women, and then they drag their men to me, because men will only ask for help when they're really scared or in pain. And you know, um uh when their legs are hanging off. That's right. And and you know, when I say that because I'm the same or used to be, yeah. Of course, but but but the example already talked about this chap when comes with a labeled problem. But when you explore um his life, uh his current life, you know, on paper, he's very successful uh in the corporate world. But the reality is the little boy which we all are in men's bodies and little girls in women's bodies is stressed and worried to the max. And so from the very simplistic concept, which is true, foundation that we're saying, we all want to be harmonious. The body is rebelling and it's starting to manifest things really and truly to get his attention because it what what it's been doing previously isn't not enough, which is normally emotions and feelings and thoughts and what have you, right? So now it's got his attention, it's causing him pain, right? And so it's got his attention, and and and all credit to this chat. When I explained all these things, he got it straight away, which I thought was interesting. He got it straight. I mean, he was he's awake anyway, but he got it straight away, and he started apply those changes, and and and let's just say things have got you know positively interesting already. But it it that's at the microcosm. What we're discussing at the macrocosm, this change of thought in this chat, which changed the energy, and things start to happen, and that's what I love working with people because the body starts to do things and it looks like it's getting worse first, but actually it's not. Andrew Wakefield, oh my god, crucified, you know, just absolutely crucified without him losing his life. And yet here we are in a very short space of human time. And the c and this is this is what I wanted to say. We we've never set out to say you can't have this and don't have what we've said is we believe if there is conversation in the spirit of how it used to be, of what is the truth or what is truer, if there's the spirit there, I am confident we will discover the truth and from that better questions and better solutions. Now, Andrew Wakefield, if that was embraced with that's interesting, Andrew, let's really have a look at that. We would have been there 25 years ago. But what happened, which is a red flag for all to see, and it happened during COVID. Anybody who questioned the science was absolutely I mean, I got cancelled everywhere, everything, you know, yeah, you know, and it's little on me, you know, nothing big, you know. But but when you get hit with sledgehammers when we're just little walnuts, it should be for everybody to go, something's not right here.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, yeah, I mean, everyone should be adult enough and grown up enough to have conversations about things, you know. So and ultimately and ultimately, if you are truly uh of the healthcare um profession, or your calling is truly healthcare, yeah. The health of your fellow human being, yeah, you should be open to what's best for someone. Right? So if somebody came to me and they said, right, I've got this thing that um uh I'm working with someone, I say, okay, I've been working with them, I I've had no success, right? And they do something, the person, I'm not gonna go, oh my god, they're better than me. I'll I'll think as long as the the individual is benefited, they're moving along a healthy path, that's a success. My removal from this this health relationship for the sake of this person and someone else stepping in is a good thing. You know?

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Oh, but look, again, all we want to foster is instead of this sort of arrogant of do you know who I am and show me the study, you know, of which there isn't studies other than you know, over time and people's you know, experience and things. But um the amount I've had in 30 years, I've had three GPs reach out to me, like they've seen what I'm doing, and they've gone, you know. Tell me what you're doing. Three, right? And I did, and none of none of them, none of them changed, you know, because it threatened their position and their job and their status. But if we take this podcast, episode five, which was, you know, where's where's it going? Right? Where's where's healthcare going, you know, which I think transcends Maha. This I mean, really, the Pandora's box has been blown open and you know, it's out. And these the energy to try and stop these conversations and the evidence that exists, it it can't be stopped, can it?

SPEAKER_02 31:17

No, I I I I would I would say that this is very in line with um so astrologically, um, and I don't mean you know what what's your day you're gonna be like tomorrow, or you know, are you gonna you know have a daily horoscope?

SPEAKER_04 31:38

And I know I'm I'm we all used to read them in the cycles. Yeah, I did too.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

I was you know, look that's the first page I went to, now to look, yeah? Yeah, exactly. Um but um and I'm no astrologer, but I do have very, you know, very, very knowledgeable uh friends in energy work who are astrologers and into astrology. And this this period now of uh the age of Aquarius is you know it's about technology, it's about group work, it's about expansion, and it's also about renaissance. You know, and I love that word.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

It is a renaissance.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

There's gonna be there's gonna be a health renaissance where people can see. Well, we're in it. We're in it. Yeah, I mean, well, I've been in it and you've been in it for a while. Yeah, we're we're battle weary.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

If we were a cartoon, we'd all be wrapped up in bandies on one little crutch hobbling towards the bright future.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I got I got this image of like um one of the one of the Renaissance painters starting the movement and somebody going, that's never gonna catch on. Yeah, topic. What's that?

SPEAKER_04 32:50

That's rubbish.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

What is the least of an artist? When you put in that light in that picture for it, it doesn't look right.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

Yeah. Yeah, you'll never sell a thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Yeah. Well, you I mean, it's actually quite a funny joke, and and and I do want to continue on our thread, but you know, a lot of the podcasts I did last year did a lot of American podcasts. You know, I I one of the things I started with is you know, your audience who may or may not may or may not be preaching to the choir need to understand that that people like me don't wake up one day and go, I'm going to pick every controversial subject and do the opposite and talk about it because it's going to win me friends, increase my income and professional status. When I talk about wounded soldiers, you know, you know, it really has been a battle of a thousand strikes to get here. And Andy Wakefield is you know, should be celebrated, not least for his endurance to it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Yeah, these people should be, you know, uh uh rewarded by recognition as as individuals who, you know, if if you talk about you know um uh in Nobel Prizes and things like that, they the people should be getting the prizes.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Yeah, well I I I I think we've done our fair share. I wouldn't shun recognition or financial, like, yeah, let's let's maybe like maybe we can come up with a an a new prize or something like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Um, the year.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

The quack of the year, yeah, goes goes to yeah. Dr.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Andrew Wakefield for his for his dedication and working in in anti-vaccine vaccination.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Oh, I tell you what though, we're laughing. Wouldn't it be great if if if these things are the Oscars go away and it's uh and it's you know, you know, uh Andrew Wakefield got the crack of the ear and it's like there's a positive thing, amazing, you know? Yeah, it would be it would be a golden Oscar becomes like a golden duck that kind of wobbles like those things you put on your car, all right? Yeah, anyway, we're we're digressing in the audience and we're like, oh my god, I thought we're gonna book some in listen to some intellectual. But but this one, but the energy is astrologically, it's shifting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Yeah, it's shifted, and you you know, it however much people want to try and stop it, it can't stop because humanity there's no time in humanity where things have stayed the same always. Every civilization has has risen, fallen, changed. It's just the nature of things.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

And I kept going back into how I can I talked about the business. Um if you're a business and and we talk about the energy, you know, what I hope we're showing is, you know, what's the old saying? No army can fight a thought whose time has come, something like that. That's what we're talking about, isn't it, Gav? The evidence that the energy that the cats out the bag, the Pandora's box is over, the the conversations that they have put enormous energy into suppress are now happening. And so the outcome must lead us in a very exciting and one would argue truer direction, wouldn't you say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Yeah, because I I I mean, I look at um we we talked earlier about communication, how that all that stuff is communicated around the globe, right? When you look historically at people bringing in uh new scientific ideas or things into humanity, some of them never even could possibly communicate with each other, and some people working on the same thing at the same time. The only way that can happen is the understanding that humanity is a is a collective consciousness, it's an energy. And when something has to come in for change, it comes in and it uses a vehicle to come in through, you know. So the Andy Wakefields are the vehicle for that, things like that. People like us are the vehicle for change.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

And when you have change, you'll always you'll always have conflict um between two ideas before the new direction emerges.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

So what do you with with that sort of visual that this energy has come in, it's growing, you know, this thought it can't be stopped by any army, and uh at some point there's a you know, I think it's escalating now, but at some point, you know, it's that rolling ball that can't be stopped. Where do you see, you know, let's call it medicine, you know, or healthcare? Where do you see it going? How do you see it evolving? I I I do not see the AI get your prescription. It they might get it in, but I see it collapsing and being, you know, of no use. Because if this energy is true and these conversations happen and these factors rise, there has to be positive outcomes in what hospitals and healthcare will truly look like.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah, I see um conventional medicine um moving down the direction of lifestyle medicine. So there'll be more interest in lifestyle medicine and prevention. Um they will be they they'll exist within um the limits of their understanding. So there'll probably be an increase in interest in maybe um talking therapies more, maybe meditation, um, dietary stuff, exercise. So they'll bring in maybe m more expert ideas in relation to that. Um and where I I think the the the um primary care stuff will stay, so where people in crisis. This is an ideal, right? This would be an ideal for if I if somebody said to me, how how do you see conventional medicine being able to survive this crisis? A massive increase in um lifestyle medicine, bringing in people from outside who are experts to work with them. Yeah. Um fine-tuning of surgical skills and when it's necessary.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Um primary care for um people who are in crisis, whether they you know have an accident or there's there's a emotional mental crisis with short-term management and then maybe life skill um follow-up, right? Lifestyle medicine follow-up. Now that would be if conventional medicine wanted to survive as a as an island, right? As it's doing already, and it's failing because it's it's isolating itself from what humanity truly is. So if it what would what would I see as a an ideal um health um healthcare um landscape, it would be that side of conventional medicine, and then people like us, the historically truer medicine of the the true roots of the Keelin um movement would exist on the vibrational level compared to that where it needs to be. So let's say uh you have physical medicine and all the all the people who are into physical, where it's surgical, um physical therapies like osteopathy, chiropractic, maybe acupuncture, and some I'm sure there's some acupunctures in osteopathical, but I work in an emotional finding where I'm I'm trying to get an idea of where do these therapies fit in, physical therapies, emotional therapies, ones related to mental or thought, and then spiritual and uh and a movement towards you know a renaissance in how they all work together, yeah. And that's because if you really, really look at what makes a human being, it's all those things. And they don't exist separate of each other, they exist uh as one. They've never existed, but that's the problem is that the conventional medicine's become so reductionist to the physical, even if you go to you know with an emotional mental problem, it still reduc reduces it to the physical to give you a med medicine, yeah, a drug. Whereas I know that probably a massive percentage of you know people in psychiatry will uh would agree with me in saying that if people had time to talk through their issues and work through it and express where their trauma or their stresses have come from, they would get better. You know, but the problem is that you know they're dealing with um the mind. You know, it for me mental health from their perspective is a tiny little bit of it. They're thinking mental health relates to the brain and nervous system. For me, mental health is relating to the consciousness of the being. And that that's that's vast. So yeah, all these things I you know that's what I would see as a as a uh an ideal for for for healthcare, and it it would all be geared to not telling the person what to do, but empowering them into doing it for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

And there's this, I mean, I think you know that it I think it's 15 years ago now, and I'm I'm I probably should update it, and I've updated it three times, I think. But I wrote the Naturally Better World Health Project, which um yeah, you know, serious people looked at and said you've you you know you've solved 80% of the world health problems, and it was a model of how a country, uh a nation could uh structure healthcare and what the hospital should. Look like, and I had satellite clinics, and you know, and it's it's a beautiful thing, and part of that was a uh the naturally better multiversity, and I called it the multiversity because uni means one and verse means song, right? So we've been singing the same song and repeating it over and over, and multiversity was designed, which is what pumped my mads the most, to be honest. The idea was a core you know, curriculum of knowledge, but there would be conferences, you know, probably you know, two or three or four a year, and that the goal, having because I've worked with tribal people, was to bring in the what I called back then the rogue scientists, um, the tribal knowledge, and basically bring together these these, you know, if you if you work with tribal people, they have an understandable distrust of what they call the white man, right? But the white man could be a black man right now. What they mean is the western mind and how they take it and corrupt it and try and profit from it. But it can you imagine you and I? I mean, this I'm sure it'll pump you on ads, sitting in a conference, yeah, listening to an aborigine demonstrate how you can heal a broken bone with a didjere, do certain tone, which I haven't seen it, but I've been reliably told they they do this. Uh, and certainly, you know, um in China uh there's been a video, famous videos that went round of of three Chinese doctors humming a tone and they're scanning a tumor as it you know goes away. So, you know, the and of course I think it was um oh my goodness, I can't think of the name. Right Raymond Reif, who was the probably the most prolific on frequency said, but can you imagine, Gareth, that that's every year, just one a year, we sat with the greatest minds and the and the greatest tribal knowledge, including the spirit world, and and the intent was how can we speak the same language? How can how can a Native American Indian I've worked with or an Aboriginal communicate to rogue side scientists that we're actually talking in the similar fields, and how how do we connect that as a philosophy to grow our understanding of the human spirit and the human flesh? Don't you think that would be amazing?

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Of course it would. I mean, I I that's because there's there's been a lot of um um there's been a loss of knowledge.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

And um our ancestors knew that um because they they lived in that that realm of vibration a lot. You know, if you talk about aboriginal people, um they they lived in what was called you know, dream time. So they they were um probably more in tune with the way things are energetically, because they're in tune with nature, they're in tune with the flow of vibration. Um but unfortunately in the in the West, we've we've created a reality that's out of tune with it to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

You know?

SPEAKER_03 47:21

And that's that's also why surgery, and you convinced me rightfully, and you call surgery controlled trauma, which I love that you convinced me rightfully that we're in a time where this ease patterns generationally have come so far that we need controlled trauma, i.e., skilled surgery at times, to buy more time for deeper and and that's not forgetting that most people can't just say they're seriously ill with a scary label, they can't just drop being a dad or a mum or an employer or an employee and just go, okay, I'm gonna really deeply go into myself and nutritionally and detox. They haven't got the time. So you know, skilled surgeries, you know, controlled trauma, unfortunately, like dentistry. You know, the Inuits, you know, that they didn't have a single cavity, their teeth were rock hard until two generations of grains and sugar came in. And then they needed dentistry, otherwise, you'd commit suicide. You know, dental pain used PBC comes off.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

You made me remember uh one of the Star Trek movies when I think Chekhov fell on a boat and he had a head injury, right? And they they the the the the healthcare, the ambulance came, and obviously the the rest of the crew, like Spock and uh and uh Kirk didn't want to be seen, right? Because you know, um they'd be found out that they were you know it they were from the the future or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Yeah, I remember this episode.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Um he's in he's in the A and E and uh they're preparing him, he goes in and and Bones is there, the doctor, he goes, Yeah, oh my god, it's like you're gonna you're gonna open his mind, he's gonna open his brain. Are you sort of what is this? This is this is the dark agents, right?

SPEAKER_04 49:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Total shock, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:21

He just gets out like this this thing and puts it on the side of his head, like a piece of technology, and switches it and he goes, Yeah, and it's completely it's just completely fixed his his his hemorrhage in his brain, you know. And why not? Why, why can't, you know, why not? Why can't that be something?

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Right? Well, you know, this is quite interesting that you've you've gone there, even though we've only got 10 minutes more. Is I rem I remember that episode, and of course, you know, there was a there was a classic song that came out in the 80s, Star Trekking, right? But but the the thing I think that Bones was most famous for was it's worse than that, Jim.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

He's dead, dead, Jim, dead. You know, and that was in the star, remember Star Treking across the universe.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Oh yeah. But you know, the technology that you speak of is controversial to my spirit, but I'm open for it. And I'm open because all right.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

So let's say this, right? Let's say you say it about surgery, right? Somebody, somebody has a four, they have a a bleed in their brain. Would you prefer somebody to drill into your head and try and fix that, or put it like a a couple of magnets and some technology around and go woo and just fixes it?

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Can I phone a friend? Okay, but but this is where I want to go because um medbeds have come back onto the radar when when Trump posted which was which which appeared to be an AI video. And I have I have stood strongly that medbeds is nonsense, and and certainly when I've looked at them, it appears nonsense. However, let us imagine that they are that that technology exists in some form, a bit like the fifth element, which anybody who who who's look at your face, anybody who's male and remembers that film remembers that scene where she's reconstructed from a single bone, which is very sort of Adam and Evey, you know, written into there, and she was absolutely gorgeous. And in that, you know, um, who is it? Who was the designer? Paul, whatever his name, whatever it is. But anyway, you I'm I'm digressing because I'm already there seeing this girl. You won't film that, right? But anyway, um, in that kind of med, let's just say medbed technology in some realm exists where it can, and the only way it would work in my mind is that it is raising the voltage of the cells, giving it enough energy to do uh you know physiological and physical repair. But in the spirit world, in the ether world and the energetic bodies, it must be in some way strengthening that resonance and that harmony, because that's where the blueprint comes from. Okay, so let's just, for argument's sake, some kind of technology exists and it comes out. Yes, of course, your child is hit by a car, you know, internal damage, and this is on offer. Of course, you'd use it. My concerns if they exist, and I still don't believe they do, but I'm open, willing to be wrong. Surely they must also be used in mind that there is a spiritual, a soul, as opposed to oh, you can just behave however you want and just throw them in a med bed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Well, that that this is this is the this is the point, isn't it? Uh it's all very well fixing the physical issue, but then if you look at the causation, right? And I and I would say that when you know when people have accidents, there's no such thing as an accident. Yeah, there's always causation. Always, always causation. So if as long as you you acknowledge that's just the physical, what is the causation in uh in the person's life? Even if you went deeper, what is the causation on a causal level? Yeah, and then you're into you know a reincarnation. Yeah, what is the causation in relation to what your soul and that's actually part of what I would say the the health renaissance is as well, is the the the recognition or the acceptance that we have a soul, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Oh, that's huge to come in at the end of the program with that because I mean you've hit you've hit the nail on the head, because if yeah, if medicine can be accused of any crime, it would it would be the removal of the soul from the seance. I mean science, you know, it it and we have to put the soul back in because if you do, and again, I can I can hear the scream, show me the studies. And you know, you and I have looked at that researcher or doctor, I can't remember her name now, that that you know very professionally said you're not having near-death experiences, you're having chemicals shooting off in your brain, and blah, blah, blah. I've I know one of my very close friends has died twice and crossed over. It weren't chemistry, right? He crossed over and came back, and I've known many more. See, the the you have a soul, which we do, one must accept you've come from somewhere. You've come from somewhere, coming back, you're gonna go back there, and you must be here with for a reason or with a purpose.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Yeah. The question would be to that person then would be well, okay. So if everyone isn't is having a chemical reaction in their brain, what chemicals are making them see exactly the same thing?

SPEAKER_03 55:11

Yeah, yeah, that's a very good question. You know, I said once I said to someone once, you know, I you know, I am a soul, and they said, You're an arseul. You know, but no, it's it's what you just said is quite profound. Um and and you know, we we gotta wind this up in a minute, and then we'll maybe we'll talk about souls next time. But when you this renaissance, our souls, that's it if you want.

SPEAKER_04 55:44

Our souls who aren't in heaven, you know, maybe that's it, that's what it is. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

We're we're all our souls and we're all going up in heaven, but no, seriously. Um, although I love this, I love the humor uh and the seriousness in it. You know, someone, someone, if a couple of people over over 30 years have asked me, you know, if you were Jesus, which I'm not, I know I was a carpenter before this, and I know my my first edition of Jay, but I'm not for the record, okay? I don't think I am, even though I've been accused of a god complex. I've not, right? Some they said to me, God seriously.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

Hang on, hang on. I'm Brian. Wellise Bryan. Anyway, sorry, probably some people have never seen that film.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

So if you have a lot of people, yeah. Yeah, life of Brian. I'm sure our listeners have heard Life of Brian. But anyway, seriously, a few people have said, if you were Jesus, because I, you know, uh my hands are very skilled, and people sort of got healing hands. So if you were if you were Jesus and you had that power, would you lay your hands on and heal people? And I said, probably not. Uh, maybe a child, a baby, that sort of thing. But I said, the reason is exactly what we've the territory we've ventured into. You know, there are lessons from this ease, as far as you know, I hope there are med beds, right? And I hope the renaissance includes them uh and uh with you know with and removes surgery, which is really only able to happen because of anesthetic, otherwise you just die from the trauma. But I hope, and I wouldn't lay my hands and heels on one other than very special uh uh circumstances, because, and I think you agree as we close up for today, this is is you've come off of truth, you've you've lost your path. There's things to learn, and I wouldn't want to rob them of that experience. Would you would you agree as we close up on the hour?

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Yeah, it's a teacher. Yeah, it's a teacher. And I mean, it uh if see, this this is this this is what um would be so comforting to many people if they understood that they are not a body with a soul, they are a soul having a human experience. Yeah, I like that. And they're how they're a soul having a human experience. And what's the point of coming here if you're not learning something? There must be a purpose to life. And m you know, many people are living without purpose.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

Yeah, very much so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

So they have a purpose and you you you you know you've got this ease and you work through it, and you go through it to another place and you learn from it, you grow as a person unsulfully. So that's purpose.

SPEAKER_03 58:37

Well, I've loved this today, and you know, it this is a terrible ending, I know, but in the words of James Tiberius Kirk, I think it's Tiberius or Tobias Kirk, James Kirk, captain Kirk.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Tiberius.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

Tiberius, that's it. In the words of James Tiberius Kirk, um, this podcast, we're gonna go where no man has gone before. Over and out. Over and out. Thank you, Gareth.