The Doctors No More Podcast; Episode 12: It’s Worse Than That, He’s Dead Jim

Death is guaranteed, but most of us are trained to avoid the conversation until it becomes personal. We go the other way. Jeremy and Doc Thomas start with a simple premise: if we look straight at death and dying, we get a clearer lens on health, purpose, and the way life seems to speed up as the years pass.

From there we follow the thread into consciousness, sleep, and healing. We talk about dreams as more than brain static, using intention at night to shift stubborn patterns, and why overthinking can keep you stuck in the very wound you’re trying to heal. We also dig into indigenous perspectives like Aboriginal dreamtime and Maori views of ancestors, where death is not “gone forever” but a continuing relationship, and where owning less and honoring nature reduces attachment and restores harmony.

We then bring it back to modern reality: near-death experiences, what end-of-life nurses report at the bedside, and what we should question about today’s palliative care and sedation practices. Doc Thomas shares an energy-work view of dying through chakras and the “energy planes,” while we challenge the reductionist “bag of chemicals” model and ask what a dignified death should actually look like in a healthier culture.

If this conversation stirred something in you, share it with someone who avoids the topic, subscribe for the next part of the series, and leave a review so more people can find Doctors No More. What do you hope is true about what comes next?

Transcript

Tempo: 60.0

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Well, welcome back to the Doctors No More podcast. This is episode 10, following on hot on the heels of episode 9, uh in a sort of mini, in the middle, three mini podcast, well, not mini podcasts, but but specific podcasts on you know conception, birth, life, and death. And, you know, um we were talking just before I came on camera. Uh well, we're on camera, but you're hearing it as an audio file, of the oh, we're going to talk about life today. And I I I said to my esteemed friend and uh professional Doc Thomas, who's of course joining me. I said, you know what? I don't think we should do life, you know, and he was looked shocked. You know, I said, I think we should do death first. And um after that, we will talk about life, and hopefully it will become clear um why we're going to do it in that order. Because essentially, you know, spoiler alert, you know, I think when uh and I never know where we're gonna go with this. It's why it was just like you know, this whole podcast was spawned from our conversations in our favourite pub in London, where we meet from time to time, not regularly, not regularly enough for sure. And Natalie used to sit with us, you know, um who's not a drinker, and said, you know, and used to say to me, you know, so she she knew it was totally total bullet with it. Total abulloc, yeah. She she used to listen, because at least at least you guys are funny and interesting, you should you should do a podcast. And so that's kind of where it all came from. But um anyway, um, you know, hopefully it this episode specifically about death, and I think it's probably one of the most important things that people don't talk about until it comes knocking on your door. Usually, obviously, someone's not. Well, you're guaranteed it will. Yeah, well, you're guaranteed it'll come and knock on your door, but usually it's a thing that people um avoid talking about. And I think it is so important once you've listened to episode nine and our discussion on conception and birth, that um it it's going to give placement and meaning to the bit in the middle, life. And as you know, and and uh Gareth and everybody that's listening, and certainly everybody I speak to, that um, you know, even my sons who are in their twenties now, you know, and I'm gonna click my fingers and hopefully it won't be horrid on the microphone, but but a year goes, you know, life goes, you know, it's a cliche, right? Did you did you click then? I did click. Did you hear it? I didn't know. Oh, okay. Well, I don't know why you did it. Did you hear that? No, that's interesting. Hey, listen, any podcasters out there, mic won't pick up when you click, but we'll we'll try and imagine a click, because I did click, right? Can you hear this though? No. Oh my god, that's my favorite sound. Okay, so apparently the mics won't pick up on my favorite sounds. Anyway, digressing back to something more interesting, and we will attempt to be professionals, which is always a challenge. Um, you know, even you know, when you say if my sons are in their 20s or, you know, 30s, 40s, 50s, whoever, they'll tell you the same thing of the great cliche. Oh my God, you know, it goes so what happened to that year? So like you know, if I was thinking about it last night, actually, you know, if if you sleep well, you know, an important part of being healthy, you know, a quarter, you know, if not a third of your life is not in the conscious realm. And then the it is, it's maybe it's the part to so really when people go, oh, you lived to 90, right? Um, oh God, I hope that didn't pick up. I've haven't turned off my uh I'm just gonna pause. So, you know, you know, back to the 90-year-old man, you know, really and truly, he's probably lived 60 years. And and I don't want to start off in a sort of morbid, depressing tone, because I'm already starting to feel it as I as I start to think about what I'm gonna say. But, you know, 30 of those years, you know, half your work, your your um the daylight time is probably working. You know, and and when I speak to people, you know, or consult with people, I should say, and the members in my membership, um, vast majority of those people hate their work. Certainly don't love it, right? And so when you start to think about life, because you know, where I think I'm going to go with this, and of course I want to speak about the I don't like the word spiritual, but I want to talk about what is death, you know, what is the other side? Is there another? You know, is it all, you know, what's her name? Mirjani, what is that the right name? The the woman that died and anyway, we'll get to that. You know, are they all just nuts? Is it the people that have, you know, die and leave their body and cross over and come back? Are they just having chemical, you know, I've listened to us, you know, a uh I think she's a Harvard scientist, talk what I think is a lot of nonsense. It's all chemistry, it's all nonsense. They didn't say anything, it's just chem. So I want to look talk about all of that. But the fact is, if we don't start talking about death, and if we don't start looking at what it should perhaps be like, because we we discussed what birth perhaps should be like, then the middle bit I think is being deliberately designed for you to be a good slave, whether you realize it or not, right? Until such a time as you go, oh my god, it's nearly all over. And and you know, and I'll finish here before you just jump on. And I don't know if this is a great start, but this is how it is. One of the things that annoy me the most in this realm is on social media, you you you might come across it all the time, is you've only got one life. You know, do it, you know. I and I just that just rubs me up the wrong way. What say you, the wise Welsh wizard, aka Doc Thomas?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It's interesting that you just you know started off with you know sleep. I think that um but from my understanding of sleep, when people you know are physically still, well, relatively still. Some people move a lot in their sleep, I think there's a lot more going on than than people realise on the energy planes, you know. So where the where the conscious mind is your awake mind while your your daily routine goes on, the unconscious works very, very much so when you're asleep. And if you see yourself as a a lump of flesh and that's it, then you you'll not be able to um grasp the idea that you're a lot more than a lump of flesh, but you're a you're an energy being.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Well well, literally, you know, when I worked with Graham Mackinson, the red pill pharmacist, he said they're taught, they're taught, toxics are taught, you're just a bag of chemicals that's gone wrong. So when you say a lump of flesh, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you know the the the the reductionist world that quote unquote professionals work in in these realms are uh you know, you're in the you're already in the world of of quackery and nonsense. I mean, show me a study about the energy plans, Gareth.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I'm gonna show you a study. The study is my study, right? This is my study. I um and we're you know, we're gonna we're we're gonna go where no one's gone before. To boldly go where no one's gone before.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

It's worse than that, he's dead, Jim. I'm sorry, I'm in that mood. Got it for it, be serious.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

It's life, Jim, but not as we know it.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Professionals.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

That's illogical. So I, you know, being interested in self-healing and wounding, um, I um I started looking at a repeating pattern that I wanted to clear. Yeah, like something that I felt that probably is a pattern that I may be um incarnated with that I needed to work through to learn something on a much deeper level about self-healing. And I I was trying to consciously um work with it. You know, when people do like man, you know, mantras, affirmations, and you're using the conscious mind. And while I was uh reflecting on it in meditation, I something inwardly like a guidance said, Look, use sleep. If you focus on your sleep. So what I did was I each evening I chose um uh you know a tarot, tarot card, which is it's a a very much misunderstood um tool for self-development, I think. Of course. People people, you know, when you say tarot, they see you know uh uh a Christmas. Mystic Meg. Yeah, that sort of thing. But really, what the tarot is, it's a it's a divination tool uh as a reflection of what you're going through to guide you, yeah, of what state you're in at a certain certain moment in life, and there's definite states, like for example, you know, things are crumbling down, and before they renew, the the tower of destruction is would relate to that. Yeah, right. Now, what I did was I thought, okay, this pattern that I'm working on, let me have a look what before I sleep, let me choose it for my sleep. Then I wrote some uh reflections down about the card, what it mirrored in me. I'd go to sleep, but my intent was excuse me, when I sleep, I want to work on this.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah. Yeah. So so for clarity, you specifically in your consciousness is this pattern that you want to address, and you're then so then you're picking in the card and you're reflecting on it, and then you know, consciously saying, in my sleep, I want to work on this.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yes, got it. Then I'd I'd sleep, I might dream, then I'd wake in the next morning, I'd write down what I dreamt about, and take another card to reflect on what change had happened. Now, what I didn't do purposefully is overthink what I was doing. Yeah. This is a problem for lots of people when they get into self-healing, I think, and especially with wounding, they get stuck in overthinking about what they're trying to sort out, and that focus forms another pattern of trying to desperately heal something rather than allowing a pattern to emerge, yeah, watching it, let it go, and move on. It's attachment to things. We're all attached to certain things in life. I mean, the physical realm is a is a realm of attachment, it's just the way it is, right? Now so I did that for two weeks, but then I forgot to do it one night, right? I I I I just genuinely forgot not to do it, and then I got on with my life, and then I started to realise something shifted. So I I'd not consciously thought of it every day, so it wasn't part of my waking hour. I used sleep to try and change it, and then about two months later, uh, there was a little book by the side of my bed, and I thought, what's that for? And I opened it and then I saw what I'd done for two weeks. Your little journal, your dream journal. It was a little dream journey, right? So it there's a lot more going on when people sleep. Now, that's probably mirrored in there's a lot more going on when people physically die. Now, our ancestors, death was as important as birth and life. Yes, I mean they did not fear death, and actually, being being of somewhat Celtic origin myself, the Celts were feared, especially when the Romans invaded Britain, and this is this is written in you know history. The Celts were feared because they had no fear of death.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yes, that's that's a formidable warrior to face, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

That's a warrior that has no fear of the loss of life for a purpose, you know, to defend their their culture and their people. And the you know, the Romans were basically said because of that fear uh you know that that they didn't have that they were difficult to defeat.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Well, I love the way you tied it in from dreams into into death. I mean a very professional segue into it.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

And you know But look, the Aboriginal people talk of it like dream time.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Well, that's kind of where I was going, you know, because you know I've worked with with you know in in differing ways and circumstances with with the uh Aboriginal and the the Mahdi, you know, and the Mahdi in New Zealand, you know, they look at the what what they call you know the white fella politely when they're being polite. And and they just think we're crazy. That they don't that we don't think that our ancestors are all around us, and that you are connected as much as the physical family that you have in front of you. And therefore, you know, uh what you do today, what you do here, is a continuation of between the veils as well, you know. So it's not like, well, you know, they're gone, what can he do? You know, there there is they really do look at the white fella. And when I say the white fella, I'm not actually um talking about excuse me. I'm not actually talking about white skin. They refer to the white fella really as the Western, the Western man. I I've worked with Native American Indians as well, you know, and and a and a lot and then and some Mexicans, and you know, that they're um reluctant to divulge some of the stuff that they know what they believe they know because it will be misinterpreted or or or abused. And actually, I uh uh because I wanted to jump on this, when you said about attachment, because people have been listening and go, huh, you know, the the thing running through the Mahdi and the Aboriginal and probably other tribal cultures that I'm not so familiar with, is a basic understanding that you can own nothing. Right? You can only use it. And therefore, you know, and I'm not saying they're practicing that, you know, they've all been infiltrated with drugs and alcohol and decimated, but those that have stuck to their roots, so to speak, you know, they very much honour that everything here is for our use and to use it and and and leave it better than you found it. And this also goes with hunting. You know, they the Aborigines are well known for making a prayer or a ceremony or whatever you want to call it correctly, before they go hunting, and they're thanking the animal spirit for they they they believe that that process, the animal will choose that it's I'm gonna give my flesh and I'm going to leave. Because uh and and of course, you know, if the vegans listening, they go, Oh, that's that's just you know, it's horrible. No. So they they they're not even hunting, they're kind of like being directed to meet this animal. It yields, and I've and I've seen this actually also in this wonderful video of um now. I want to say halal, but not in the real sense, but they say this prayer over this animal they're going to slaughter, and you watch the animal completely yield, completely yield, uh, and it's very interesting at least. But nonetheless, back to the Aboriginal hunting, they expect to meet up with the animal. The animal sort of yields in its own way, they respect it, they kill it, that they and then they eat and celebrate its spirit. And the point being that they all hundred percent know that this is not it, it's just part of it. That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, it does. I I it's interesting you mention um, or we've we've moved into mentioning aboriginal people, but you know, you're talking about hunting and uh seeing in the dream time that animal offering itself to them. Yeah, it's not just for animals. Uh I you know, I've got a great book on Aboriginal um way of life and history, and excellent book, really great.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

I'd like to read that.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, I'll I'll send you uh a link, uh you know, a link to I might put it in show notes. If we start doing show notes, it might be good to do.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

We definitely should do show notes.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, and um uh there's there's a section in there where uh an elder uh takes uh a young Aboriginal boy who wants to make an axe, right? And um they go out and they find lots of stones that could potentially be an axe, yeah, but they only accept the one that in dream time has uh has decided to be an axe, if you know what I mean. I do. So so there's there's a a um there's a respectful connection between them and nature, so there's not a taking thing, is a working with something for for you know um the purpose of evolution, maybe, or the purpose of uh how do these kingdoms work more harmoniously together. And you know as well as I do, more harmony means more health, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

For sure. Sure, absolutely. I mean, I mean it you know the the the definition or at least part of definition of dis-ease must be, you know, what what with is it unharmonious disharm disharmony? I'm not sure what the word is.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Well, it's if you look at frequency, there's you know, music has um you know harmony, which is notes that harmonize well together because uh the frequencies will have some ratio or relationship to each other that works out mathematically as well. So if you want to bring maths into, you can't do it, you know. But I find also you you said something which struck something in me. You said um the ancestors, you know, if you don't think your ancestors are around you, that's the whole point. Yeah, if you don't think they're not around you, they're not. If you think they are, they are because if you think that they they're not, you're closing yourself off to that influence, you know, and is also what what you've reminded me of is when I was in Australia, I remember um that was you know back um uh maybe um 30 years ago or something, and I was backpacking, so you know, you go down the office for a cask of wine for the evening, right? Um, because you you wanted to save money, yeah. And there was a cask of wine that was really, really popular with Aboriginal folk, right? And they can't drink, they just do not go well with drink, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah at all. I know. Well, they have to have a special license in Australia, I'm told, to go and buy alcohol, it's that bad.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, but what happened while I was there, right? And I was only there about eight months, and within that time, that company changed its design of the cask of you know, this cardboard cask of wine, which is like I don't know, a litre or two, something like that. Yeah, and the sales plummeted. Yeah, and they worked out because the Aboriginal people didn't recognize it as the same wine anymore. Yeah. So you know what they did? They changed it back, yeah. So, and I I also um, you know what I was saying about your ancestors having this no fear of death when Roman Rome invaded Britain, its aim really was to get to Anglesey in North Wales because it's where the Druids were. And the Druids were the spiritual centre of Wales and Britain at that time, or one of the spiritual centres. I did not know that. And they knew that if they could get to Anglesey, destroy all the Druids, then you destroy that link between life and death and the ritual that involves between it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 22:33

And so then they become conquerable.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Of course. So the the if you if you look at when you know then you start to get Christianization of the UK, and there's a slightly different idea about death in Christianity. It's not like a recycled thing, like a death, life, birth thing that cycles around, you have multiple lives. It's more of like one life. If you behave well, you go to heaven. If you don't, you go to hell. Whether that was the original teaching or not, I don't know. Maybe it's been changed for a power power scale.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

It doesn't sit well with me. It sits well with you know control. Um I I just don't think mind you saying I say that, you know, I say that right now, but you know, it w we're recording this, you know, February 18th, 2026, and the stain files and videos are everywhere, and social media, you know, and and it is horrific. And uh, you know, one has to hope that there is a special place in hell if these turn out to be true, which they appear to be.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Without giving it too much energy, I think people have to you know change their their idea of you know uh and and language and say, oh, you know, that's awful. That's terrible. No, it's evil. It's evil, yeah, absolutely. And and you people have to come to a realization that evil exists.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Well, you know, do you know what that's actually again? I never know where we're gonna go, but I love it. You know, I've I frequently um in in not in a social setting, but in when I'm when you know I'm consulting or talking to people where I'm supposed to be some sort of you know uh body of knowledge, when when they say, Oh, it's crazy, I I say, no, it's not crazy, it's criminal because it's being done with knowledge and intent. And and you know, in this age of Aquarius and more like, you know, these Epstein files are out there, and I know you don't want to give them energy, but it's part and parcel of the Great Awakening. And I say this all the time to people, and this is going to tie into death and the meaning of it and the middle bit why you're here. Because, you know, um when when I take someone on that's a very unwell, you know, labeled or unlabeled, but clearly very, very seriously unwell or chronically unwell. And you start doing, you know, first of all, you need to understand what caused it and as many as causes as you can, and you start subtracting, you start working on those, and blah, blah, blah. Right? Now, when you get to enough of those things, the body will um start to detoxify or move things, and that includes emotions. You know, when people say I'm detoxing, that could be fear or trauma or whatever, right? But when it things start moving, and usually they will say to me, my skin is worse, or I'm, you know, that my my this this or that is worse. Actually, the word is more active, usually. Sometimes, very rarely, it's not. But but the point being, and I start smiling and going, excellent. Like they say, I've got a huge flu, and it I feel too excellent. And they think I'm a some sort of narcissistic sadist or something. And the reason I'm saying excellent is I know it's moving and it's struggling to find its way out, and there's techniques to help it, including with emotion. But nonetheless, once we start getting it out, they come through that and they feel better than before. And this is the cleanse heel cycles. Humanity is now going through that. We're not going through it, we're right bang in the middle of it. And so it's so it's going to be ugly and uncomfortable and horrid and dark. But guess what? With it, it it by very definition, the light must have been brighter here to see it in the first place, because it hides in the dark. So, you know, wherever we were going with that, do what you want with that. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

I I well, that's a death.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's more than just it is, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

It's a death, it's a consciousness death. People think about death as oh, loss of physical life, but you you know, if you look at I I I was chatting to a um a nurse this week who um has got Ramadan, right, coming up. So she's oh, I've got a fast. I know the nurse. And I and no, it's a different different nurse. I don't know the nurse. But I've had conversations with you know, um uh with nurses who are Muslim who come up to Ramadan and they've got, oh, I've got to get you. And I said, I always, you know, have this discussion of it's really interesting that some of these spiritual teachers were into fasting.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

For those who don't know what Ramadan is, can you just very very very briefly Yeah, it's uh it's it's when um uh Muslims um will as soon as there's daylight, they they're not um able to eat anything or drink anything. And then as soon as the sun sets, they're able to eat something. So it's like a a cleansing period of 30 days.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Bang on the solar new uh uh lunar new year.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah. And it's chosen at particular times of the year. I think they they get it, I I'm not sure how many twice, maybe three times. I think maybe twice a year. I don't know. But but it's chosen at a specific time, right? Right, and it usually ties in with a cleansing period. But I always say how interesting it is that you you look at um fasting, when you do fast and you're talking about restricting things in diet and then shifting emotions, you're going through death. The old person is dying, and the new person is is you know being born. So it's not just that. You look at you know, uh Christ in the desert. You know, 30 was it 30 days?

SPEAKER_02 28:42

30 days, I think.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah. 30 days, why 30 again, you know? There must be something in this the life birth you know, life, birth, life, death cycle within the whole period of of life, not just physical birth, physical life, physical death, but that cycle of being born into a new part of yourself, living it, it starts to mature, then it starts to fade, and then you've got death and then a rebirth again. So and Buddhists as well, they they all do, and I'm sure in you know, in all you know, uh indigenous uh uh uh wisdom, there's the idea of cyclical nature, of and that's why they never feared it. It's part of life, it wasn't like, oh my god, you know, I'm gonna I my teacher of um oh man, 20 20 20 odd years, maybe a bit more. Yeah, I remember when I was in a group and she was teaching, and and it it was a great question because everyone was talking about you know what they were doing in life, and what and she said, What are you gonna do when you die? What are your plans for the other side? And they said, What? Well don't you haven't you got any ideas what you'd like to do when you die? Because you'll you one you won't need clothes, you won't need food, you won't have all these restrictions that keep you honed on. What do you want to what would you like to do? You know, and no one and if you start to think about that and look at our ancestors and the way they dealt with you know death, it was a birth into the into the non-physical world or light. And you mentioned about the the near death experiences, yeah, and you know, oh it's all brain chemistry.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yes. Yeah, they've done studies, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah, they've done studies, but you know, show me a study that says explains why they all see the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

And I mentioned this to you the other day. So do they all have exactly the same chemistry happening in their brain that shows them exactly the same thing that's so defined? I mean, when you start to break it down like that, it starts to make the scientific approach to it ludicrous.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Well, it's it's fascinating because you know, I I actually love that you've brought into the conversation, you know, the death of a personality or an identity while one is quote unquote alive. Because in the last, certainly the last five or six years since CONVIT, you know, a lot of people, quote unquote, woke up. I know a lot of those people that quote unquote woke up during CONVID. And of course, they've gone through a baptism of fire and and um challenges and family calling them crazy and you know, vindication in this time is is is is upon them. But um uh Jeremy, uh your conspiracy theorist. Well, do you know do you know what? Um as as the listeners probably well know, that was a a very powerful word created by the CIA after the uh uh JFK assassination, and and it's been very effective. And you know, to be to be honest with you, conspiracy theory or is is exactly that until you have some credible um evidence, and then it becomes a conspiracy probability. And then when there's overwhelming evidence that just won't go away, it's conspiracy. And and really I like the definition, you know, uh the redefinition by the so-called conspiracy theorist, which is you know, I'm a critical thinker, and yes, some of them have gone off in some very interesting rabbit holes, and they they still might end up to be right. But basically, we were critical thinking and our um adversity, not adversity, the people that were were harsh upon us, in my experience of watching others be criticized and myself wouldn't look at the information, you know, or or or read a book. You know, they they just was like, you know, whatever the TV said they spoke. But anyhow, you know, moving through that, the point is those people who quote unquote woke up. Um, and Natalie woke up through her period of cancer diagnosis, and you're going to die. So not only did she change things in her consciousness and in her life, she woke up. And that caused, you know, lots of problems for other people. But the the point I'm getting to is everybody I speak to who went through, whether from disease or healing or um just you know a realization that the world is not how you've been told it is, categorically do not want or cannot be the person they used to be. In fact, they look back, is the most common conversation at who they were. I can't believe they were. That's why it's often referred to as they were a spell. I'm I mean, I know you've been programmed literally by the Telelevision and repetition and what have you, but you know, from the moment you were born, even when you're in the womb. But the point is, back to this death, you know, I think a lot of people are now going through the death of the self or the death of the previous self and coming out into seeing things about themselves, let alone the world, very differently. And and I and I do want to move that into the physical. This is why I want to do this episode as number two and not let the life, which we'll do in the next one, which will be episode what, 11, I think. But you know, let us talk about physical death, you know, because I think the word in and of itself is wrong from the get-go. And in, you know, in the past, they used to say, you know, he has passed, not he has died. They recognize, of course, I'm not stupid. I know the flesh is no longer animated, but it's the same chemicals in the flesh. It's the same, you know, metabolism, all right, it's changing rapidly. But you know, what is technically something has left that animated that flesh. And the stories of, you know, oh God, I can never remember her name, Mia John. I'll I'll find it, right? But she's probably the most famous one, Ted Talks and all that. But a very, very close friend of mine, Byron, you know, he's he's died uh three times, I think, or at least twice, and he's crossed over all the way to the other side through the tunnel of light, met by wonderful, you know, just unbelievable, can't describe it, how wonderful it is. And then he got sucked back and he's been pissed off ever since, right? Because it's like, you know, and I said, You're meant to be here, get on with it, right? Hopefully he'll listen to some laugh, right? Because he's a darling. But um, let's talk about that because you know, I I've infrequently watched this um um palliative care nurse, like end-of-life care nurse, is a correct title that I can't think. She's become very big, so you might know her. And again, we should put this in the show notes. So she's witnessed, you know, a lot of passing, right? A lot of death. And yes, some of it's not pretty, right? But a lot of it is. A lot of it, um, the pattern she sees is um them reaching up to either angels or loved ones, they often start talking to loved ones who've long since passed this realm. And it's very interesting, at least. But it what it means to me, and this is part of the conversation I'll hand back to you now, is if in episode um nine previous to this, we discussed what is conception and birth and what should it be, converse to what it is right now. You know, when you start to look and discuss and see death as a natural passing movement cycle, you know, um, we've really got to start thinking very, very seriously of how do we address that. Because right now, and I'm sorry if this upsets people, and I know it will upset some listening, you know, some people that have um lost loved ones, um, they went down the end-of-life care route, you know, or or or the palliative care, and they start to use medazolam and morphine and and a cocktail of drugs, which they know will eventually just, you know, and and and I have to say, you know, some of it was was certainly mercy, seemingly merciful for the suffering. But but you I've sort of lumped a load of stuff there to just throw over to you. But but you know, we have to consider now what and how death should be experienced.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah, I've been lucky enough to be at a number of deaths, uh family members, friends, that sort of thing. And um I find it I I've always found it as a as a privilege. It's a really special moment, you know. And I think that yeah, it is a sad time because people develop connections between loved ones all you know throughout life, and then as that person is leaving, it really pulls that those emotions out of you. You can't control it, and if you do try and control it, it has a very difficult, you know, um, or a negative effect on you long term, you know. That's why these things like grief and um are present. But I've um I mean I teach uh energy work and healing to to small groups of people, and one of the subjects we cover is death and dying. Yeah. So how do you behave as an energy worker, being aware of the energy planes and being aware that people have a soul? How do you behave with somebody like that? And the answer is one very respectful, and the important thing is to create a space around that person that is conducive for those higher energies to come in, like ancestors, family members who've already passed over, the angelic or whatever belief system you have. The light, in other words, to be around. And if you if you're ever around people who are moving on from the physical realm to the non-physical, the energy around people usually is conducive to people, you know, the heart center really opens up, people start crying because of all that light around. Yeah, but I mean, I was I was fortunate enough with uh One Death that I um was supporting someone in to see it from a point of view of the energetic centers, right? So, you know, most people call them chakras or energy centers. Now, there's seven main ones. The base one relates to um survival, the sacral more relating to sex and relationships, the solar plexus, the ego and thinking, you know, conscious thinking, the heart more love, the throat is more expression and higher creativity. The the third eye is more that intuitive side of us, and the crown is your connection to light, yeah, the connection to your soul, to your higher self, to God, to whatever you call it. And what I found fascinating when I was at this um death, which I would really call a birth, um, is that the soul's energy was being um moved upwards, and that person's consciousness left the those centers, like the sh the chakras and the the um energy planes that they associate with, yeah, starting from the base, which is your survival stuff, moving up through each one till you got to the top, which is your crown, and then the energy left, which left the vehicle pretty much. Are you saying that's how it always should be or is I've I no, I saw it with one person and I I witnessed it also with another person. So I'm not saying it's always like that, but from what I've experienced, there is a pattern that makes sense of how something would come in. Now, if you look at um uh the opposite side where people are born, I think it's there's there's a a slightly opposite direction where you look at children, right? And especially newborns, they they're like spiritual beings, they have this wonderful energy around them that's yeah, you know, almost in you know, everyone is attracted to because they're so lovely. Yes. Whereas, you know, and there's lots of movement and they start to move more. So they're as as that energy is coming down through each center and manifesting more and the soul manifests more, then they start to get into more survival uh traits, don't they? Yeah, they uh you know they scream when they need help, when they're hungry, so as the survival thing kicks in. Whereas when you leave this plane, it's the the crown center, which is the last.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

So j just for the cynics, when you say you've witnessed this twice, right? You know, what do you what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 42:48

I've seen it energetically. So you know, uh there there is such thing as uh clairvoyance, seeing energy. And that's not uh that's not a new thing, that's ancient.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Are you seeing it through your eyes or in your you most see it through your your brow center is the main one, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

When you talk about um, you know, when you go to uh mediums and psychics, yeah, they sometimes also use a solar plexus as an intuitive gut feeling about something.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

So these these centers, and I mean this is interesting as well because when uh energy training was really good, people used to really m make sure that you know um those disciplines, there was a deep uh training in it.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And I I think you probably find some people who do that still, but because of the advent of you know, short courses, short ways into things, people don't really do it well enough.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

This would this would um you know, it's it it's might might be serendipity, but I happened these sort of martial arts type things start coming up on my um Facebook feed and one older chap, you know, Chinese Asian in origin, he was, you know, showing with these big birthy men that obviously knew how to fight. And he was um taking their energy. So he'd go, it it's probably Tai Chi or something like that, which is what I understand Tai Chi really is. But he would go, they'd come at him and he'd you know not even touch them other than to hold their arm to guide them down to the floor. But he you would see them like this battery go out in them. Like they just couldn't stand. And so this is what when you talk about energy work because I I think moving forward in the medical renaissance that we're in that you know the the I I think a lot of harm has been done not intentionally maybe with the new age type you know movement Reiki you know that sort of thing even if you're listening you might be a Reiki quote unquote master I don't know how you become a master over a weekend but nonetheless you know I I think there's been a lot of um certainly the soul was taken out of medicine. It was never meant to be have the soul in it it was a bag of chemicals business model. But I think a lot of damage is being done on the non-physical medical planes that I call you.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

I call you my you know my non-physical doctor you know the energy energy but it's real because the the Asians work nothing but in traditional Chinese medicine and clearly this martial art was oh you don't need to take on this big bugger I'm just gonna turn this freaking thing off in him temporarily and he won't you know so what do you does that make sense is that the same thing with these chakras that's probably what he's doing right yeah look uh if you look at the anatomy of of the energy planes um the the vibrational states so you've got the physical vibration what's nearest to the physical are the elements yeah so and that's different in different um disciplines so you've got the earth air fire water yeah and in the more westernized um idea of it there's the deetha which is the angelic which oversees all the elements yeah and it carries out the will of God right um then you've got the more um eastern side of things they have those elements um and they have a slightly different connection to the divine through it they're probably much more nature based I think some of them especially the Chinese stuff I think and then they have wood and metal involved don't they? But they're also interconnected you know that's that's but then if you if you move up vibrationally to the emotional plane and the mental plane where all the emotions and all the sea of emotions the sea of thoughts that exist that we're all connected to some people relate to that as the astral plane now when people pass over many people go through that astral plane um some of it can be quite difficult. Let's say for example you know someone you know and you you've got plenty of films about about this and yeah whether their accuracy is spot on or not it's interesting that it's in our consciousness right so you you know somebody dies of a death they're not they don't they're not sure they're not aware that they died and then they wake up they're in a plane they think they're still alive but they're not really they're in an astral plane. Yeah and I mean if you talk to any any healer um that is has that awareness or even you know psychics and mediums yeah they they speak to people who are in that plane and sometimes help them move on.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

See this is this is really important to me because you know as you know one of my bugbears in life in a sort of professional capacity I guess is the show me the study or studies say and if there isn't a study then it isn't real you know and and I've I've I've I've just stopped arguing now but I've argued that well because just because it isn't a study it doesn't doesn't mean that something isn't true. Just a second I just want to get this bit out but it doesn't mean it isn't true or correct. It just means we you've yet got the capacity to measure it because you want you know in the reductionist world we need to measure it and be able to you know show it and then you know reproduce it and show it again now it's scientific, right? And go argue that but but you know when I work with the uh tribal people and things they're the measurement they're they're the calibrator they're the you know and it's far more sensitive um an instrument let's talk in you know words like that than anything we can yet design electronically yeah uh I I um my feelings about that are when you get into energy work and non-physical medicine sometimes you have experiences that you can't cognitively put together it just loses the energy you can't describe it right so there are aspects on on planes of higher vibration if you try try and describe them in lower vibrational con you know constructs like science is you know um science it's interesting science has been divorced from spirituality yeah right all my when I was into science all my you know people that I saw as heroic people of science were Newton you know uh and people like that who had a spiritual nature to them you know most people don't and not realize that Newton was very much into the spiritual you know and these people were you know describing the world science through a spiritual um lens I I I might be wrong on this but I'm sure in uh time gone by it used to be séance science they were very interchangeable at some point but I might be wrong on that but what I what I do want to that's very interesting I didn't know about Newton but what I what I do want to take that and go a slight to the left is we've been talking about you know a death in a sort of semi you know end of your life natural age you know kind of family around you right and and that's worth talking about and what it should look like in the future and what it isn't right now. And I know for a fact um many nurses I know one but I don't didn't know the nurse directly but I knew who was married to her she her favorite part of her job was preparing people who were going to die and it's why she left the the the in this case the NHS she left because bureaucracy took over and she was doing more paperwork and there was one particular young gentleman that wasn't ready terrified and he died in a terrified state and it upset her so that she left. So that's what I'm kind of going to next what about those that die before I mean you know I almost smile when I say this not in a disrespectful manner but those that die before their time andor violent ends, you know, war, murder accidents you know I I had a client that um she was driving behind a motorbike and he he crashed and was clearly killed and you know she hit her brakes and then she looked to her left and he was sitting next you know sitting in the passenger seat and and and she was very um uh you know spiritually mind I can't I hate that term but you she was she she knew what happened and she said you know darling you've I'm sorry but you've you've died and he was in like you've been knocked out of his body is what I'm saying. So where does the trauma physical trauma although I understand you can be traumatized to death but where does physical trauma arguably dying before your time perhaps that is that's why it's perhaps it's not simoron perhaps the your time is your time but what do you say on that?

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Yeah I think is the you know we we we build up constructs of what we believe. I believe that if you if you're aware that there's life after death and you have a belief about that you're then you're gonna be more open to it when you die. Right? Yeah um if you build up a belief system that there's nothing after death then you're less likely to be open to to move into a place like that because you you're already creating thoughts and emotions on these planes I was talking about. Yeah. So your your thoughts and emotions are connected to the the collective thoughts and emotions of humanity.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Wait, wait, so what are you are you saying then that if I believe if I'm a if I'm a God fearing Catholic and I believe in hell and I've been a naughty boy and hidden it through my you know which I haven't by the way um I I I but if I believe in hell there's a hell waiting for me because I believe it. And if I believe I'm going to go up to the great kitchen in the sky where I'm going to have every cooking utensil and you know are you are you suggesting that that what you believe that plane is waiting.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

I I'm not sure it's it's the same as um you know uh how it's depicted um I mean there are people who would say that the earth is a bit of a hell zone. Yes. And actually this is this is hell and we're trying to work our way out of it. Well it's certainly challenging school but but are you saying what you believe pessimistic because I think it's a it's a beautiful realm. It is but but are you saying that what you consciously expect death to be is what you're going to experience the other side I think it influences it yeah so if let's say you you create um uh a how would I put it let's say your thoughts and emotions are the clothes you create right and then as you as you move on you've got those clothes on you. So those clothes do what two things they you're not recognized for who you are by energies that otherwise would recognize you and you're camouflaged on a lower vibration to move into a higher one right so your thoughts that you have relating to death can influence how you experience death after and I tell you there's a very interesting book which we should put in the show notes again right we're gonna have show notes okay it's called Testimony of light right and it's this this two two women agreed whoever died first they they can communicate with each other and tell them what the afterlife was like right fascinating book yeah how people people when they pass over you know if you have a belief you go somewhere where it's comfortable for you first because you still have uh contracts with people on earth you know I rem I mean my dad died a number of years ago now and I still had communication with him um and every time he went through a change in the energy planes I would go through a change here so I might rem have a memory and cry and grieve and it I lighten up so it makes sense that if he's still connected he'd lighten up so there's always a movement in and out of vibration into this plane and out of this plane you know um but I think that um when when what people don't uh understand is that uh if we had a a concept of death is okay it's a part of life you know if we were taught that people should talk about death and celebrate it more right now you were talking about some people come into you know difficult deaths and there's a trauma right and you then you started talking about the hell zone right I I've just recently read a uh a very interesting book it's it's about the realm of the hungry ghost right and it's a Buddhist of um philosophy and it describes how people who deliberately do things really bad can end up after death in the realm of a hungry ghost which is a hell zone. Yeah right so it gave gave examples like um a Buddhist teacher goes somewhere and the the owner of a place feeds them and waters them and gives them everything because they know they're they're dedicated to humanity's benefit. And while in a way the the the servant of the house you know does really bad things like pisses in it in in the water and stuff like that. Something not really nasty. Yeah well do it and then they end up after death in a hell zone right now I I I'd like to link that to another fascinating book which is called Divine Messengers which is about Bhutanese shamans where families are aware that ancestors of them are in a hell zone and they go to them to communicate with them in the hell zone to ask what can my what can your family do to lighten your load there.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

So it suggests then that there's an interplay between this realm and the other realm constantly and we because we see it as a as a physical realm and you know this is me that's you we're separated we break things up too much rather than seeing it as a continual pattern that's life is coming into it leaving it and I found that book also fascinating that these women had had the the balls they didn't but they had them go ahead to go into as a you know a realm that's obviously not nice yeah find the person talk to them and get bring this information back and say look if you can do this this these types of prayers this type of work you might lighten the load and then that person has the ability to move out of it or they they have a window of opportunity where light can come in and bring them out from that as long as they're able to see the error that they've made you know well you know as we you know it come up to the sort of last five or six minutes of of this um wonderful episode you know one would imagine it sits really well with me because one imagines it's a two-way streak not just the you know relatives here trying to help but it's a two-way street of community and I think that's the point and it it sits very well with me because you know Tesla you know said if you want to understand the universe think in think in terms of frequency right and and and and harmonics and for me dealing with the that that that really worked out for you didn't it well you know it it's he's we're still talking about him today. No I love him don't get me wrong but yeah you know you know you know and no army can stop a thought whose time has come you know and Tesla Tesla you know I think uh said you know it's just not it's not my time it's not they're not ready for it and um uh but anyway but but back to what his statement was which I believe to be true which if if you want to understand the universe not that I think the universe exists in the way most people discuss it but you know you have to think in terms of frequency and harmonics and it sits very well with me because what you you know and I and I love you know the Muppet Christmas Carol version you know uh uh and uh particularly where the two hecklers that are in the Muppet show appear to Scrooge and they and you know they've got all these long chains while they sing uh where Marley and Marley it's like if you have never watched the Muppet Christmas Christmas Carol you you certainly are missing out on something. We watch it every year to Natalie's you know annoyment. But nonetheless but but again the same thing you forged these chains in this life and and why it sits well with me is because if the universe or or whatever you want to call it is harmonic which means it's resonating you know in tune or out of tune at different tones and different pictures then when you when we do good and when when someone is healthy they are resonating they are harmonically in tune you can see that their light that they produce is bright and conversely when they're in dis-ease there's a lot of disharmony in their life and in their bodies and so I like this right because you know the passing that it is the the I mean as I said I think in the previous show uh um you know I think it's the Hindus were measuring people at the moment of death uh weighing them in hammocks and they lost you know perceivable weight I can't remember how much but it was it was it wasn't like milligram it was it was significant. Something leaves and every culture has recognized and written about that the West not the so-called modern Western culture although there seems to be you know a resurgence of Christianity and morals which is a good thing you know perhaps perhaps they recognize it uh uh more so now but the West seemed to have lost its way with that aspect of it but it is a passing you know there is the other side whether you can see it or feel it or not and even traumatic death you know murder war you know and all this terrible thing you know it's not the end for I think what we're gonna have to do you know we're gonna have to do one on grief you know what is gr what you know I I it now becomes so obvious to me that why we're even talking about it because listen oh no I think we what we should we just should call it the death podcast shouldn't we you know well no um no how about no however it might we might get tangents but but but this is why it's called the doctors no more right because because you we got put in a box right you you have to function in that box or lose your licenses you know and so you know what's beautiful about this is you know we're going to have to talk about grief because like do you know what I think we are professional because I'm about to make a fantastic circle back to the beginning how professional is that right like the Celtic warriors knew right if there is nothing to fear then it will change how you behave and live today and I think that's where we should probably start to wind this one up.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

Yeah that's a nice place the ancestors coming in and telling us what to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

Because there's nothing to fear right and so once again you know I sit here uh feeling very fortunate that I call you my friend and I can have these conversations. Well we're we're acquaintances really aren't we yes that's it really right and um that's coming up in your yearly review right now I'm telling you right but but but you know please continue to write to us and give us your feedback. We've had lovely lovely comments that you're also enjoying our muse and conversations and you know theories and philosophies and what have you and it is helping you and that's what we're really here to do to help you.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

And if you want to reach out and get further help it's jer jeremy airs dot com and um uh what's your website or do you do you want um the energy the energy one is uh you know if people are interested in energy healing and training in energy healing it's uh energy medicine international dot com. Okay. And then if people are more stress related stuff it's um mindies dot com.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

Right and don't don't forget also that Gareth is one of the most talented dentists I've ever met.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Yeah that's that that that's also I mean if people want to do that they can can connect to me through those those channels.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

Right but reach out to us and we can we can put you into the right you know the right box to talk to but I hope you've enjoyed I'll I'm trying I'll try and make sure to put some show notes in for people as well of those books. Yes okay right so you you heard it here first it's on his shoulders the show notes so if there's no show notes don't write to me. But anyway you know um we have to wrap it up in the sort of an hour package which is where we're knocking on the door now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

This podcast has the dyno well it does

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

It it it had its birth, it had its middle bit, you know, and now it's time to put it to bed. But the good news is it never really dies.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Yeah, and it'll be it'll be reborn next time. That's right. So it's good night for me. And good night for me too.