The Doctors No More Podcast: The Wisdom of Pets

A rabbit dies. We start from that quiet, heavy moment and follow it where it actually leads: into the psychology of pet grief, the strange purity of unconditional love, and the lessons animals teach us about presence, loss, and what matters when the noise stops. If you have ever been told “it’s just a pet” and felt your throat tighten, you’ll recognise what we’re getting at.

We also dig into the idea that animals are far more than background characters in human life. We talk about animal intelligence, telepathic moments with pets, and why simply sitting with an animal or listening to birdsong can feel like meditation. Then we swap stories about animals sensing sickness, responding to stress in a home, and what “healing” might mean through energy exchange, grounding, and the way living beings tune to one another.

From there we take on the question that always sparks heat: where do you draw the line between pet and food? We challenge the ego fights in the vegan vs carnivore debate and argue for a more honest approach to ethical meat, humane farming, respect for animal life, and nutrient-dense food that actually helps humans thrive. If you want a conversation that holds tenderness and truth at the same time, press play, then subscribe, share this with a fellow animal lover, and leave a review with your own pet story.

Transcript

Tempo: 60.0

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, welcome back to Doctors No More, and we're at episode 15. I wanted to do some sort of you know old-fashioned bingo calling, you know, legs eleven, but I don't know what it is for 15, so that's that's not going to happen. Um but anyway, and by the way, my father was a I know what it is. What is it? One in five fifteen. Oh, there you go. One in five, fifteen. My father, interestingly, um was a bingo caller. And and back in the day, that's when you I can tell it comes through you.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, it comes through. You've got the voice, the bigger voice.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Right. And it was a performance, and many of the TV stars, Jimmy Tarbuck, that sort of thing, for those who are in England don't remember, you know, Tarby and so on, came from being bingo callers. So my father was the great undiscovered. He thought he was gonna end up on TV. Yeah, but he didn't. Um, but anyway, today, you know, it is what is it, uh, March the 12th, 2026, when we're recording this. On its own. On its own number one. Number one. You know, Two Little Ducks 22. Actually, see, you've got it. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

I have got maybe we should have a Natchez, you know, a sort of Doctor's No More bingo session.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Well, maybe. Um, or maybe not as the case. However, you know, Two Little Ducks 22 does segue quite nicely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

You've got to be careful now, though. You've got to be careful.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Do you? Okay, well, yeah, yeah. I've never been PC, so you know, I I'd a personal computer. That's it. I've I just have to you know call it how it is. But two little ducks 22 segues perfectly in today's podcast. Over here, it's snowy, about a foot of snow has just fallen, and I believe it's grey, grey, grey and wet in in you know, green, green aisles of England. But today's going to be like all of our podcasts, you know, we don't know where they'll go. Um, but today is is you know um a serious subject and you know a part of real life. Um and we were gonna do it yesterday, but Gareth wasn't ready, frankly, because he lost um a beloved pet, a r a rabbit called Baloo, I believe. But that's what today's going to be about. We were going to do pets and animals separately at some point, because there's a lot of contentious issues, again, in the quote unquote new age spiritual world. But, you know, let's let's start today, because I've got quite a lot to say as well, I think. But let's focus it around you and the real truth that you know uh having loved and lost a pet and what it does to you and the family. So, where do you where do you want to start with that? You know, and I know it I know it was a tough day yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah, um I think I I mean I I'd like to start um you know the the on the idea that it's not a chance thing, the pets come into your life, right? So if I think about how we we acquired bunny rabbits, um you know, I I remember being in the pet shop, not not expecting to get a a a pet, right? Yeah, or an animal that you love, whatever you want to call it, right? Yeah, and all I could hear in the background was, oh look, oh look, and you know, this is a sign up saying basically the the bunny's been there for like two months and it's on its own, and oh, it's on its own, and uh the next thing I'm waiting for it, you know. Dad, yeah, can can we uh get I'm like yeah, oh okay, you could you should make sure you're gonna look after it now and make sure this. And I thought to myself, well, there's a number of reasons why um that was a good decision, and uh one of them was I remember when I was a child growing up in Wales, I I always had pets. I had bunny rabbits, uh guinea pigs, mouse, uh dog, a couple of dogs, and they they were all always great companions because uh they couldn't speak they didn't speak like we speak, they speak on a different level, it's telepathic.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

They they do, and I hope most of our listeners are nodding their head and not going, what a bunch of quacks they so they understand they're they're highly, highly intelligent, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:57

So that was one reason why I you know I agreed to get in um a single rabbit initially, and um uh and another reason was that at some point that that pet would die, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

So you're saying consciously you got the rabbit for the kids, but also knowing that at some point those kids would have to go through a death cycle.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Yeah, they'd have to experience a a death um experience, and I think that's important. Um because we, you know, none of us live forever in terms of physicality. The physical vehicle always is, you know, as we discussed earlier, it's birth, his life, and his death. But it's similar, you know, this cycle is is intertwined in our relationship with with animals. And I mean, so we we we acquired uh you know a rabbit years ago, but then there was the discussion of oh she's on her own, she needs a a partner. So then we find so it it it makes you you know um explore things that otherwise you don't. You have to care for uh another being, you have to consider whether it's happy, so there's the there's a there's a a lesson being learned from it. And also, I mean it it's highly supportive, and I you know, I the number of times I've um uh sat with them and just watched them, you know. And it it's a it that connection to animals and nature uh is deeply um supportive. And you see, you know, if you see, I always think that uh what we do as human beings, we name things some sometimes to our detriment. Yeah, so we go, oh, there's a rabbit, right? And then you you name it and you go, Oh, well, it's this, that, and rather than sitting with it as a being uh and not getting caught and seeing beyond all the things that we we build up. Oh, that's gonna behave like this, that's gonna behave like that, rather than just sitting and being in the presence of another being. You know, so I I mean I I I hugely enjoy the company uh of you know both my rabbits. Is you know, we've got one still with us, yes, but you know, one who who you know sort of passed a few days ago um was very sad. It's very sad because it leaves a space, yeah. You know, and it it it you know there's grief associated with it. I know I've cried from it, and I know that you know my the rest of my family members have grieved from it.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

So there's an experience of loss and grief, and I they are quite important lessons to learn. They're not pleasant when you're going through it, but there's there's a I think when you grieve, there's an acknowledgement of what you've experienced has been quite well very important and precious. You know, and I know I like you, Jeremy. Uh you know, I grew up with dogs like yourself, and it's similarly when I would when I was, you know, a uh a boy growing up in the in the valleys, right? Yeah, my my dog was my best friend in the valley, you know, just taking that animal out for a walk and spending time with it, and it's it's an unconditional love, which love is, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I I'm I'm ooming, you know, because um it should be an unconditional love. Certainly the extraordinary thing about animals for the for the most part, particularly dogs, uh and I say particularly dogs, probably because I know dogs the best, but but you know, these crazy cat women probably would argue that the cats, you know, but I think cats own people and you know, whatever. Um, but anyway, um you can treat a dog badly, you know, and it will still, you know, love you. And um, of course you shouldn't be treating it badly, but you you're absolutely right. And uh it and let's call them pets, rightly or wrongly, you know, as as a differentiation from keeping chickens or cows or what have you, which is another conversation either for today or later. But you know, you're right. I grew up with dogs, right? Um, my mother was a dog woman, always had to have a dog, and in those days, she would walk the dog and and me in a pram, the old-fashioned pram, you know, twice a day for sort of four to six miles. So it was an you know an incredible thing to get out there, you know. With what no matter what the weather, my mother would be out there. She was the proper dog person.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Well, the dog doesn't care, does it?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

It's like oh well the dog comes alive, right? It's like walk. What? You know, you know, but but what I wanted to actually you know jump on straight away is it's interesting that you first of all you said Ronnie Babbitt, which I love, right? Because here's this grown-up man in front of me, right? And and he's talking about a runny babbit instead of a rabbit, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Did I say that?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

You did, and I I I no, but I think it's very telling, not not like all right, yeah, he you need a lot more counseling. I I quite like that job.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

I think that's it now.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

It is Ronnie Babbitt, it's it's it's uh it's it's what they are. I mean, they're fluffy and lovely and you know, in the sense when they're pets. But anyway, what I was gonna pick up on, which is interesting, because again, in dis-ease, you know, my my ultimate description of dis-ease is not in your truth, and humanity is not in its truth, and all these reasons we discussed. But naming things, I mean, you know, often I say to people, who are you? and they'll say, Well, I am Gareth, and I say, Well, no, you're not. Yeah, that the actually what the correct language would be is I am the man commonly known as Gareth, you know, Sir Welsh wise wizard Thomas, right? But but because, you know, uh uh what is it? Is it Shakespeare? You know, a rose is a rose by whatever it is, you know. You know, is you could name, you know, in German the name for rose is different than Spanish, but still a rose. And yet there is this need to uh associate something, a tag, to living creatures, to of course you'd recognize your rabbit or your son or your mother or so on and so forth, but there's this need. Uh and I'm what I'm trying to get to badly is there's an energetic connection that that's Baloo, or that's Gareth, or that's you know, my first dog was Sasha. You know, and then forever on, those words trigger, whether the dog or rabbit or whatever, is it they trigger a membrane's good or bad, right? I mean, to this day you can say Sasha. Usually she's usually my secret word. Oh god, if the cat's out of the bag, or the dog's out of the bag. My secret word is, you know, with when it says what pet or first pet Sasha, right? So I'm probably hacked now, right? But yeah, but but that tells a lot, doesn't it, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Instantly Sasha, yeah, it does, it's associated, it's association, huh? Yeah. So we we we're constantly building up thoughts and emotions around objective things in the world externally.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

And when when you build up a relationship with all those thoughts, memories, and and feelings surrounding a an object externally, when it's removed, there those where do those emotions and thoughts go? They have to go somewhere. And when you when they're, you know, if you're a I mean, I'll be honest here, I like I like to cry when I need to, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah. No, I saw I saw it when I took you out from Mill and gave you the bill, you know. Um it was it was a moment between the two of us. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

So I I like to cry, but it's there's some people when they lose things, they can't they they can't feel you know that connection of wanting to release. I can you can tell it's there, but you know, in some in some ways, sometimes um pets, you know, are uh you know animal relationships are high highly important.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Well, I actually want to be devil's advocate for a second, yeah, right? And and I am being devil's advocate, right? So for for for you and listeners, and I know also you know, you are still in you know a grieving process, but I'm gonna be devil's advocate, right? Yeah, you know, for God's sake, Gareth, it's a fucking rabbit. Or or whoever's listening, it's a cow, it's a dog, right? You know, for God's sake, right? It's not a human, it's not a child, right? What say you?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Well, I mean, dare I say it. Um there's human beings on this plane that I'd rather have a relationship with a rabbit, to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

I mean, there's um I mean they they this it's like a dog, you know? They sit down.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I've got an image of you now in a pub. The rabbit's got a gin and tonic, you've got a pint of toast, and you and the rabbit are in your own room.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Well, they wouldn't have a gin and tonic, they'd have a to Taffy Hopper, wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Oh, yeah, Taffy Hopper, that's it. Oh my god. Okay, but you know, we laugh, but I absolutely okay, but I'm being serious as devil's advocate. Yeah. You know, and and and I love the way you've come back into that because you're absolutely right. Because there's so much damaged humans because of the reasons we talk about, and there's so much pressure and bad behaviour, you know, an animal is that uh from a very childlike sense, hence you're calling it Runny Babbit, is this continuity of being. Yeah. Even if I mean, even if you've got a little yapping dog that bites you, like you kind of know, well, you know, it's you know, but nonetheless, it's this continuity, this relationship. But I mean it, devil's advocate, it's a rabbit, Gareth. You know, I've lost dogs, it's a dog.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah, so I I mean I think that you've got um people who do that, um they you know that they tend to be not um pet owners, or maybe they'd cut something off in terms of their connection to something, you know? Um and um you've got to be open to those relationships in life. You know, it's for example, um if where I sit in the garden sometimes and I listen to bird song, right? Oh, I love bird song. The older I get. Right. But sometimes I listen and I think, okay, let's let's not think it's a bird. Let's just sit here and listen to sound. What sounds are around me, you know? It's like a little meditation to them. So rather than thinking, oh, that's a bird, is it a blackbird, is it a thrush? So your mind starts already shaping the idea of what you're listening to. Whereas if you just you go, okay, this this bird song, this sound, let me just listen to it without thinking where it comes from, and you enter into a deeper place with nature. And I think that that happens with pets, if you allow it. If you allow that connection between yourself and the animal world to to uh go on to a deeper level, you know, you you start to see that um there's an intelligence there that's that's incredibly deep and profound, you know. Even in rabbits. I've never had rabbits. Even in rabbits, you know? That's a serious question. I wasn't being Yeah, no, even in it's like I if I look at my you know the m the rabbits I uh you know had, I've got one left, but completely different characters. Uh even seeing the the relationship between them, yeah. So they're male and female, the the care that they had for each other, right? Really? So yeah, like very, very sort of caring for each other, where one would you know, sit the other one would wash the other one, and then it'd be vice versa, and they'd always snuggle up together. You know, it's like uh like a relationship they had.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Well, well, not like that is a relationship. It is a relationship, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

So it's like now the one of them is gone, the the the the the other one's left without that. Yeah, and you know it's a well-known thing where animals le lose partners, they grieve.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Now I don't know rabbits, but how do you think the rabbits think or know? Maybe two different answers. Um saw you and your family.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

I think initially they they're very based on fear.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

So uh um I think with our our rabbits, we we always wanted them not to be overly uh humanized, so yeah, we'd give them a lot of space to run around in, make them feel like they're in nature still, yeah, and give them that connection to to nature so that they're not, you know, they're not a a um an object of of amusement, which some pets can be, I think, you know. Yeah. I mean I I look at some pets now the way they're dressed up, and you know, uh some of those videos when hilarious. I mean what dogs is is this for the animal or is it for the owner?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I'd probably go to hell for saying that, but oh my god, if you don't laugh at some of these animal videos when they've dressed them up.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yeah, but they are funny, yeah? They're hilarious. But it it's interesting you're talking about this because people project all this their their feelings onto animals.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

You know, I don't know. Uh sometimes when you see talking about dogs, you see a dog walking down the street and you go, it looks like its owner. Oh, for sure. Huh? Yeah, you go, Oh my god, uh and sometimes on the other side of it, you might see somebody who's incredibly unwell, yeah, and their animals incredibly unwell. It's almost like they project the the disease patterns onto the animal, and the animal takes it on. I mean I did want to go there actually. Because cats cats like that, right? They like they cats are stress-seeking, so they they like to take on those things. They can they have a way of transmuting it or changing it. I don't think dogs are as much able to do that, although they do take stuff on.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Well, I would beg to differ, but maybe in different ways. And I'm really glad I didn't expect to get there so early on, but we're there, so we'll we'll grab it by the proverbial horns. So um, Dr. Jerry Tennant, who wrote the book Healing is Voltage, which is a good book, but it's you know it's hard clinical reading, really, isn't he? He's not a writer. And Dr. Jerry Tennant got very ill. Um, he was a surgeon, excuse me, and I I I think he believes he picked up some bug while surgery, and it was in his brain and his liver, and he was he was bedridden and very ill for several years, literally bedridden, right? Hardly functioning. And he had these two little dogs, uh, you know, I can't remember whether it's Charles or whatever they were, but two small dogs, right? And they're at the front, the picture of them are at the front of his his book. And And these dogs used to come in, jump on the bed, one would lay on his head, and one would lay on his liver. And he would start to feel better. And he didn't make the connection immediately, but he'd start to feel better, right? And then the dogs would sort of pine or scratch to go outside and sort of be let back outside. And you know, as his brain started to work more and more from this, he realized that, you know, he um whatever you know was the true causes of his dis-ease in his brain and his liver, there definitely was an energy deficiency. And the dogs could sense it. And the dogs were donate, this is how he describes it. The dogs were donating electrons. You know, the earth, if you don't know this, I'm sure you do, but that the earth is an electron field. That's why grounding and barefoot and touching trees is is real, right? You not only earth out artificial um inflammation and frequencies that have come into you from you know artificial sources very quickly, within 15 minutes, massive inflammation drops in areas. But you you take electrons in to recharge you, and that was meant to be the part of the 24-hour cycle of when you're walking barefoot or with you know leather shoes on, you'd do shit, and then you'd get drained, and the the sun would go down, you'd lay down on hay or the earth or animal skin, and you'd recharge from the earth and and and other things. But anyway, you know, he worked out that these dogs were donating their electrons consciously, you know, they could sense the drop in energy, but then they'd need to go and recharge. Now, if you've ever watched the movie The Greed Mile, which is uh about um your death row, yeah. Unfortunately, it's got Tom Hanks in, so it's a little bit difficult to watch nowadays, but it's it's a very, very, very good movie. And um, you know, if you haven't watched it, I I warn you it's pretty traumatic because it's showing electric chair scenes. But the main character is this sort of simpleton, you know, ginormous black chap that that isn't you know isn't very clever and has been accused of murdering his two little girls, and it turns out it's his gift, you know. So, spoiler alert if you want to watch the movie, you know, turn off now, but he draws out this dis-ease that he sees in people. This is his gift, and it comes out like black disease flies out of their mouth into him. They feel better and he feels ill, right? And then he needs to sort of go away and sit down and go through his process. Well, I recognized that when I was working in the physical clinic. You know, by the end of the day, I was absolutely felt ill from touching people and helping them, and they all felt amazing, and I need to get in water. Well, you know, back to the animals. That's what the dogs are doing. So I think it's more than just donating electrons, I think they're absorbing.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Every creature that's animated by um light, uh, spirit, god, whatever you want to call it, uh has an energy field. Right. So when when an animal comes into your energy field, it's the energy field is connecting to your energy field. And I I would go further, yeah, on a on a very basic energetic level, talking about electrons and energy exchange, that's happening. But on a more profound level, there's probably a a love vibration between the animal and you, and also something um of a higher nature, something more soulfully. You know, uh if I think about my first dog, uh, we didn't go out and look for it, it came to us. My you know, one of my brothers found it abandoned. We spent a week trying to find where where it um lived, and we couldn't find it.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Because the dog had already found where it lived, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Yeah, and then basic, basically, it'd been with us for a week. Yeah, and you know, I remember dad said, Oh, well, we're gonna have to keep it, aren't we? Like, yes. So, you know, there's and that dog came into our family at a time where we needed that extra healing uh energy, and they do, animals heal. I mean, it's not unusual, it's a known thing now where you know, um, people who have seizure seizures have animals to tell them before they're having it.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

That's why it has in what way?

SPEAKER_02 26:20

What does the animal well it's a uh people who have epilepsy, right? And uh before they have seizures, the animal knows before it has a sea the person's gonna have a seizure, and it can make a warning to it to that person or the people around.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

That's interesting, yeah. Same same with animals and earthquakes there, you'll see or a tsunami, you see them running away.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

So they they're obviously tuned in to a plane that that is highly intuitive and telepathic. Now, I'd argue that we have that capability, we've lost it to a certain degree, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yes, to a certain degree. I think it's coming back.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

It's coming back, yeah. But you know, um, and talking about the uh the film uh The Green Mile, um you know, I when I train um people to be energy healers, yeah, the idea is that rather than taking it the the disease pattern on, yeah, what you're doing is channeling higher vibrational energy or spiritual energy through you to the person. Then the pattern of disease comes up into the energy field and you clear it and you put a positive energy in. Yeah, right. So I think what happens, what you're talking about with the these dogs, they they were completely aware of uh their their um if you call for another word, master, yeah, right, is unwell, and they're naturally drawn to create a harmony, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Well, I I've got several stories that I want to try and get into today's podcast, yeah. Um and and I'll just do two very quickly now. So so so one of them is I am quite sure um that someone's beloved dog, you know, suddenly passed recently because there's a very, very unwell person in that house. And the fear and the stress from the deterioration and the you know the all the challenges that that brings, I'm quite sure this dog, you know, took it took it on by by how it died and what it died of. But it was very rapid and you know, um, the dog was very well looked after, and it's it it's just um you other than coming across poison which it didn't, it makes no sense why this relatively young dog should suddenly but I think it was just a sponge. But the and and I certainly with a lot of I don't understand horses scare me, but a lot of horse people that I've worked with and know, you know, intimately know their horses and other people's horses, and they'll tell you that the horses can get sick when they're stressed or something, and vice vice versa, actually. But but the horses also come over when you're sick and want to touch you.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

Yeah. They also know, um, I mean, I I know uh colleague who who's you know got lo loads of horses, total horse person, yeah, and she she always says, Look, the horse will know if you're confident or not.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

If you if you're not confident on the horse, it knows and it'll play up. Yeah. Because it it wants some sort of relationship where it feels comfortable. Yeah, you know. And I think that um I mean I mean it's a it's an area where hopefully things will open up a little bit um in relation to you know how valuable animals are in relation to our our our evolution as people, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

It it's so interesting. And I want to tell you uh one of the other stories, uh this is in reference to telepathy, I think, and an animal comes into life and is meant to be. So when I was in Barbados, you know, and Natalie Natalie has become a dog person too, but before that she was a bit scared of them, right? You know, unsure of them. And she came across Nikita. Now, if you don't know the breed, they're they're kind of more wolf, I mean, they're more dog than wolf, but there's kind of wolf wild in them. And and you know, you need to be a competent dog owner to take on Nikita is the sort of you know common common thoughts, right? But she's seen as a keita and they're beautiful, right? And and Natalie said, I want an Akita and I said, Are you sure? Right? And she said, Yes. And so I said, Let's put it out to the universe. And within a week, I got a call from the woman that owns Nakita, because I also told her as well. And she said, on the other side of the island, I've been told there's an abandoned Akita. You know, do you want to go and have a look at it? And I went, I went, yeah. So we went over there, and as we're driving over, it's about an hour to get the other side. I said to Natalie, I said, you know, you know, I'm telling you, we'll know if the dog is right for us. Because I was nervous as well. Like the last thing I want with the young children is, you know, a bad story by trying to do a good thing and taking on a stray dog, and God knows what's happened to it. Anyway, we get there, me and Natalie, and this dog is probably a few days away from death. It it is, you know, all bones, just skin. It's on three legs, and its tail, which should be like really like basil brush, you know, it's just just string. It's in a terrible, terrible state, right? And it's been locked in someone's front garden. They've something they've managed to go in there and they've sort of kept it there, right? So I pull up in there, I get out the truck, but the back of the back of the vehicle is open as well. I get out and I go over to the dog, and the dog looks at me, and I and I think it sniffed and touched me or something, and then went to the back of the car and jumped in the truck, right? And and I said Yeah, that's the one, right? And I said, I said, well, she's she's chosen, right? And and off we went, and we we fed it bone broth, and you know, me, and in like eight, twelve weeks, this dog was just this beautiful Akita. We named it Suki, which is a Japanese name beginning with T T S U K I. And the I've never, I never expect to have another relationship with a dog that I did with this one, right? Because there's no doubt we saved its life. And this dog, me and this dog had this extraordinary, I swear to God, it talked to me in my thoughts the telepathy that you talk about. Yeah, but Natalie would say, I could be six miles away, maybe more, right? And then make the just begin the journey home, whatever I was doing, and Suki would go and sit by the front gate. Because I'd you know, I'd call or WhatsApp, Natalie. The dog would know, right? And I used to put my forehead to forehead to that dog, and we'd have these moments. So, you know, I get it when you talk about telepathy and these extraordinary. Unfortunately, it's one of the saddest events as well, because they changed the the regulations of getting dogs on planes out of Barbados when we left, and she was too big, and it was going to cost me a fortune, which I didn't have. So I had to find, you know, a wonderful woman I found to take Suki on and this other little dog called Poppy that we had, right? And they went off together. But oh my god, that was probably worse than the dog dying from a point of view of grief.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, because you do, you you you you know, you become intertwined. Um, it reminds me of my my um one of the dogs I I grew up with, uh Dylan. And um, you know, he's right.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Oh my god, magic roundabout. Isn't it? Wasn't it oh no, it's dougal. No, so Dylan was the roundabout.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

This was this is more Dylan Thomas because my son's Thomas, right? So it was more the the Welsh poet.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

So you're all cultured. I'm like back in magic roundabout and dougal and yeah, but okay, because you're cultured.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Uh um, so whenever I came back from you know university, I he he was waiting at the window for me. Yeah, he knew I was coming, yeah, right? Yeah, and you just get in and you you this five minutes of mayhem, just so much joy.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Excited, yeah. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Have you seen that podcast that these two dogs are doing with CGI? They're like short clips. Oh man, we've got to find that and put it on the show notes. So they've got these two dogs, it's exactly what you described. These two dogs they've got like us, earphones on and podcast, right? Yeah, and they're like disgusting. Oh, and when they go away, you you think they've gone forever, and they just you know, and then when they come home and they pour and they're talking, oh, the joy of they've come back, you know. And you know, it it it's it's so but what you just described, someone's captured that in a sort of CGI two dogs on a podcast. It's absolutely but it's true, right? The dogs go bananas, yeah. They love it, yeah. Like unlike certain members of our family, like what's for doing that.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Who who doesn't like being loved?

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Come on, and that's an extraordinary thing, actually. And I and I'm not sure where we'll go with this, or maybe it's for another day. But even the most evil, worst human being doing terrible things, which maybe is a conversation for another day, and how you can change. And I was listening to an interesting interview today of someone that was very bad and was made very bad from being very, very bad things done to him, and then has healed himself, and he's talked about this bridge. But he brought up animals, you know. Even the worst human being, you know, an animal can love them.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah, an animal can get past all the all the stuff that they can't deal with in relationships with uh other human beings, you know. And I I I mean there must be places out there, but I uh I know that um you know what's it this is an interesting story. I where I work um in the practice in in town and uh dentistry, right? Yeah, there's a guy used to come, uh he used to be the the the rep for and he used to bring all the materials that we used, right? And for for years he just kept I I kept chatting to him, and then he says, Oh yeah, I'm retiring uh uh this month. I was like, Okay, cool, that's good. And then about a month later, he came in with these two black labradors, right? I love black labs. I said, What what are these? Oh, these are the dogs that I um you know take into hospitals or homes, care homes for people to connect with. And I'm like, I never knew nothing. I knew this guy for for uh seven, eight years, and I never knew this, right? And and I just thought, wow, that I I respected him as for what he did, right? In terms of the way he was a nice person to talk to, professional, did his job, but because he did that, I I was like, wow, I was blown away, yeah, you know, and there needs to be more of that, you know, for maybe schools. Well, I've written it into the regulate kids in school, you know, exactly. You know, if school's the right place for for kids anyway, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Well, not not the modern version, but I really written it into the Naturally Better World Health Project that hospitals to use the word as a scale, not because I know what the word means, but the new architectural hospitals which need to be, you know, like five-star hotels full of light, you know, um EMF massive reduction, but there needs to be sections where where whoever's ill can have interaction with animals. Because don't you dare start going, what about infection? and you know, you and you get people touching animals and you see them come back to life. Same with young children coming into a geriatric ward or or an old people's home, they light up.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yeah, I I you know what it I I um I do like occasionally, not so much now, but growing up, I I like to watch like nature programs, you know, animal stuff, right? Yeah. And uh the wonder of it all. But I started getting to the point where you know when you you if you re you know, you'd see like a um uh a creature in the you know, a place and it's you know it's endangered, right? Yeah, and it's got a massive collar around its neck with a a tracker on it. Yeah. And the immediately my thoughts are like that animal is so sensitive, and it's got something on it that's interfering with its natural directional stuff. Yeah, who is who is this for, really? You know? So rather than than going out and saying, look, why don't you just deal with who's effing up their their environment, right? Rather than you know, um making them an object of of your your your work as such. You know, there's a fine line between protecting species and and who is it for, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Well, I'm glad you've got us there as well, because you know, we have to have the conversation, and I've I've done it before in in interviews and things. We have to have the conversation where you you've probably all seen that vegan poster, you know, where it's got like a runny babbit, a cat, a dog, a a bigger dog, you know, uh a goat, a sheep, uh uh or whatever it no, so it does the pets, a horse, and then you know, sheep, cat. And it goes, where do you draw the line? Where's the line between pet and food? Yeah, and it's a very powerful, I mean, whoever came up with it, right, was very clever. Okay. Now, um, you know, you're aware people eat rabbits, particularly in France, and you know, in in fact, there's a there's a disease when there was nothing but rabbits.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Look, I I've eaten rabbit.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Right, right, but but doesn't mean I I hate rabbits. Right, so right. But you know, we have to have the conversation because it it it's the the whole world is evolving and waking up at many different levels, including the animals, is is is you know, I see this guy, I'm sort of tangenting a bit here, but let me try and get the whole point. There's a guy on Facebook at the moment that's befriended hyenas, which are ugly creatures to look at, but that they're he they're playing with him like like they're his pet dogs, you know, and these are wild hyenas, so there's definitely some consciousness.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Well, you you've just you've just answered the question, haven't you? Because the it's the it's the ancient relationship between the animal kingdom and and humanity that we're talking about. You don't see cave paintings that show um uh deer being friends of of a or them hunting broccoli, yeah. Or or them hunting wolves to eat it. So the the there's in the within the animal kingdom there are relationships with which are friendships, and there's relationships which are um survival relationships. Yeah, right, and I think the the also the problem is is that we again we we have these names, right? Identity names. I'm I'm carnival, I'm vegan, I'm this, and you you build up that personality, and then it be you know, ultimately there's matter on on this plane which is edible, and that can be animal or plant, some mineral, water, and it's it's everything is like um there to be consumed, but it's depending on what you consider yourself to be um uh okay for you, right? So in terms of um, and I think we've had this conversation before, in terms of consciousness, everything has consciousness. Yeah, plants have consciousness, animals have consciousness, mineral kingdom has consciousness, like crystalline. It's all energy and everything is into inter reacting with each other, but I think there are certain animals that are destined to be much closer in terms of relationships, like dogs, cats, bunnies. Maybe that's more of a more modern thing, right? Um, but you know, it's like people say, Well, you know, where do you draw the line? Why are you eating um uh cows? If you lived in India, the cow is sacred, so you probably wouldn't eat it. Now that that um that uh that race of people have grown up with that for many, many, many, many years, right? So maybe they they they've learned how to work with um non-animal um uh sort of food in a way that they've evolved with, right? I think the problem is with us now is that many people who are cutting out, particularly carnivore type or animal protein, we we're in a position where in the Western world we Not evolved that quickly to take on plants, and I think many people go in with a very, very true feeling of wanting to protect life, and I understand it, right? I've been there myself, I've been in that position where I I've haven't eaten meat for many years and started to get unwell, and then started to realise why. Well, I then I have to say, Well, I have to, you know, weigh up if I consume another animal. Am I creating something in my life that's helping the whole to a certain degree? And am I thriving with that? Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Well, I I I have some, you know, I believe I've resolved it in my own mind, and I want to go there in a second, and I've probably done it before, about where that line is. And um I want to talk about that in a little in a minute, but before I do, I cannot escape that you said that you know the i in India the cow's sacred, because you know, there was a time uh in fact, I had a best friend called Gareth, and then when I started waking up, he kind of rejected me and and thought I was strange. And and and I hope you're listening to this, Gareth, because I've got a better Gareth. No, he wasn't, but I've I've replaced you, right? I've got a much better Gareth now as a bestie. But anyway, yeah, um, we're back in our twenties, um, student times, and I'm not going to say too much, but we may have been under the influence of alcohol and certain plants that that you may or may not roll up and light and laugh a lot with, possibly. Right. But we'd got into a state where we suddenly, at the same time, realized cows knew everything. Right? And it was the time where um what was that cartoonist? I can't think of his name now, where often he was drawing things like cows going Australian guy. I can't remember his name, but but yeah, I know what you mean. Basically, they would these cows would be talking about Plato and philosophy, and then someone would go, car, and they'd go back down and start munching the grass and doing, right? So we we were we were like, you know, oh my god, he knew. And then Garrett said, Oh my god, the the Indians, the cow is sex. That was it. If ever we needed any more proof that we were right in this, you know, alleged certain state, it was there that the cows knew everything. But that's a side story, but it was incredibly funny at the time. And next morning it was like, oh my god, what shit we're doing. But going forward, in answer to the question, you know, I think the vegans, I think they're wrong, but I think the vegans ask a very good question. Why, where's the line, why don't you eat your dog? Okay, so I'm gonna just address that. Number one, okay. Um the reason people don't eat their dogs, other than maybe in North Korea, and I'm told it's a very select people, you know, it's not a it's not a you know um commonly done, and and it's around a certain time. But the reason people don't eat dogs is because they don't taste nice. If they did, we'd be having, you know, we'd be going down the local workman's calf and go, oh, you know, I'll have a uh a Labrador bap, please, and with some ketchup, right? But they don't taste nice. Now people might not like that, but they don't taste nice because or a hot dog. Exactly, right? We'd be having a hot dog literally, right? But they don't taste nice because they're meat eaters. You know, we tend to eat uh animals that are herbivores and ruminants that eat plants, right? So that's number one. So so there is a division there. Uh number two, we don't tend to eat animals that bring us a use above food. But if push came to shove and you were starving, you know, probably the animals would be eaten before you're you'd eat you you'd eat another person if you Right. And there has been stories, you know, well-documented plane crashes. There was a village that got cut off by snow for six months, and they they ate the dead, you know, to survive. And these horrific survival things, right? But in general, we don't eat animals that provide us a use. Um and also when they ate lots and lots of rabbits, by the way, there was a disease that they would get. I think they called it rabbit syndrome or something like that, because there's not enough fat on rabbits. And so you literally did not have enough fat and you got sick. But this is how I've completely resolved it, right? And you know, dogs tend to be, you know, a working dog and protection and company and cats, ratters, and that sort of thing. And so they they tend to have uses, right? But how I've resolved it fully is the man upstairs, you know, in in in his or her great wisdom has determined that in this realm, everything, and I mean everything, is either eating or being eaten. Right? And so you and I will be, you know, worm fodder and bacteria and broken down into the earth. What what the dirt is, is everything that's ever lived and died before us and broken down. So this when you look at it from that perspective, everything is eating or being eaten. Therefore, what for me at least, what comes into it is how you get your food and how you eat it. And so when you go back to the tribal and the aboriginals are famous for it or well known for it, is before they go hunting, they say a thank you prayer for the animal that they believe is already decided at a spiritual level to give its life to give life. And if you re and I'll finish here, if you recognize that there is no death and that there's this cycling of in and out, and and presumably animals have souls or spirits, or I in fact I don't know because we've discussed that. Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

But if you accept that, I mean that you talk to a chain and they'll they'll let you know that.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Okay, but if okay, so great, but you can expand on that in a minute. But if you accept that then, then then the circumstances in which an animal, you know, or a fish or whatever it is, gives its life and how that life is taken to sustain you in this realm, which isn't, you know, we're not Bretharians. We cannot just survive on prana, right? We we have a digestive system for a reason. Human beings, it seems, are meant to be eating so-called animal products. I don't like the word animal product, but we are designed to be eating fat and protein in that order, right? We're probably lipovores more than carnivores. But I think we can eat seasonal fruit, and I believe, hang on, we can eat vegetables that would naturally grow, because most of them are man-made in laboratories and spliced together, if they're fermented or cooked properly and we have the correct microbiome, right? Yeah. But what do you what do you say on that? I mean, I didn't, you know, it's an argument that animals don't have souls.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I think also what I'd add to that is we've we've become so detached from the uh process of um uh taking an animal's life uh in a respectful way. Uh so you know, we go to the supermarket to buy something, whereas our ancestors went out to hunt it. Yes. There was an energy involved in it, there was a respect, um, all the animal was used. So there it was um literally all of it. All of it, you know, and respected for that, and and um and honored in some you know, sense. I think that what's happened is that we're we're eating um animal products that are of a lesser quality, so they're full of you know drugs and and you know steroids and what they shouldn't be. They're they've been uh you know sort of um not cared for in mass production because we're all eating too much anyway, right? And what I mean by that is yeah, I had a conversation with a nutritionist of why are we eating you know three, four meals a day? Is that is that because uh you know it's natural or is it because we're programmed to do that? And I know you know as well as I do. If I if I go out and and I buy a um uh like a a steak, if I get a very high quality steak that's been looked after by a farmer who cares for its animals, and it's been killed in a uh a way that's humane and respectful, that meat will will taste different, yeah, and it will have a lot more energy in it. So I in a way I need to consume less of it. Yeah, right? But I think we've moved away from you know that respect side of things, and that needs to come back. And the problem is that you know, most farmers are completely under attack now, especially you know, uh cattle farmers and meat production farmers, they're they're under attack all the time, you know, and um you know it's it's this it's this idea of um are you eating something for a point of ego or are you eating something to nourish yourself? And I think that you you know, unfortunately, lots of people get into the argument of you know, should you or shouldn't you be eating meat? And there's a real anger there, yeah, you know, and when there's an anger, there's the you know, it's like I'm carnivore, I'm you know, um vegan, I'm vegetarian, I it's all I am this, like egoic, rather than saying, okay, well, how do we have a conversation here? What is actually the the optimum thing for a human being?

SPEAKER_00 54:25

I have to say that that vegans in general have been the most vicious to attack, to have a conversation. I mean, the new age community, Dolores Cannon, who was an interesting character, people like that, they were very strongly convicted that um of co of conviction that the you know you can't spiritually evolve.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Yeah, but you know where that comes from. Do you know where that comes from?

SPEAKER_00 54:48

I can guess where it comes from, but where do you think it comes from?

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Well, I I from what I know it comes from Buddhist tradition, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:57

I was gonna say the Seventh-day Adventists have been incredibly influential. There's the original, you know.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Another being, do no harm to another being. If you want to progress spiritually, you have to not harm another being of that has energy like a soul.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

But that isn't an alignment with with what the creator made this realm.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yeah, but listen, you've got Buddhist monks in the the most highly spiritual people in the mountains of you know Tibet or you know, Bhutan, like who are they they don't they they haven't got uh they they survive on people giving them food and they're eating meat because otherwise they they couldn't survive. Right. So they you know it there's necessity to certain things, and I think that what happens with spiritual ideas is that people take them and they they take them as you know hard, fast gospel, right? And then it it doesn't become a spiritual thing, it becomes an egoic thing. I am right, you know, and as soon as you enter into that place of in spirituality, I I am right, you're wrong, that that's conflict. That that lowers the vibration into a place that's just ego, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Right, and that that's I mean, we were talking about the medical renaissance in the last episode and what it's gonna have to look like. Well, from the from the food production, I mean, again, I've written in the i in the Naturally Better World Health Project, but you know, food being of um you know necessity, first of all, needs to be defined. And I like Jack Cruz's definition with it has to have a connection to light, right? Uh to the sun, to be actual food. But going forward, and and this was also kind of mentioned in a kind of way in the in the in the classic book Um uh People Before Profit, right? Uh by Schumacher, I think his name was. But anyway, um Economics as if people mattered, that was the whole title of the book. Very brilliant book. But really and truly, it's quite easy to resolve this. If the farmers were funded, much like we discussed the doctors, if the farmers were funded, and the and basically they were funded, make the best food, not the most, the better. And we define best nutrient density, you know, blah, blah, blah, right? Fat content in animals, you know, blah, blah, blah. Right? Make the best food you possibly can. And the more the better the food is, the more we'll give you. So they have a fantastically wealthy, is a it rather than surviving and committing suicide when you know, time which are huge suicides, as you probably know from farms, right? That their life is like, I love this, and I'm getting wealthier and wealthier, and who wouldn't want to do this? And if you subsidised, for example, to have a ribeye chips and a peppercorn sauce cooked properly was the same price as a Big Mac combo, right? So the you know, inverted um uh uh um I'm just using the subsidies, right? And to eat a Big Mac was the same price that you pay for a you know a a a ribeye steak, which is what, 35, 40 quid in London, right? You you know, it's really simple, isn't it? Yes, you can go and eat toxic food. Now, what that would do is McDonald's would go, fuck this, I'm gonna start producing the best burger and the best chips I possibly can. So I get some of those. So to me, it makes sense. Now, within all that, uh so-called animal husbandry would would transform as the norm. Yeah, right, as a as opposed to this, and and we haven't got time to talk about Temple Grandlin. I think that's her name. Grandlin, yeah, Temple Grandlin, the the the cow whisperer, an autistic woman that has been employed to to make abattoirs as stress-free, and she's brilliant what she's done, and and they video it and show it as stress-free as possible. The animal in the ones that Temple Grand has worked with, the animal doesn't really know what's coming. It's over, and boom, it's very quote-unquote humane. And I want to say this one, and I hand it to you in the last eight minutes. You know, you talked about watching um animal documentaries, natural, whatever they're called, right? I I thought, and I think most people thought wrongly that nature was the quick kill, right? Yeah, it's not. It's the opposite. So humans are extraordinary in considering the animal. Nature, they'll eat the damn thing alive. Yeah. And maybe they're getting off on some adrenochrome type thing in the animal's blood, I don't know. But they're sitting there watching this animal suffer, and they and they're like as relaxed as, yeah, bitch, we're eating you, you know. And it's cruel like for a human being to watch it, it's like cruel. We're the opposite in a general sense. I mean, not so sure about some of these halal videos that Rupert Lowe of Restore Britain has been showing, but it's certainly that's not the way to to cull your Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

I mean, I I mean, uh, you know, in look, I I I saying earlier, I've I've been in that position where I've at one type of food stuff and explored it, you know, like uh so no meat, right? And I get it, I get the the the the feeling behind it, and in in sort of um in support of people who can do that and stay really healthy, great. But what I find it's not the case more often than not. And I think that w what can happen, and you know, this can happen with lots of people. You you know, you you form an idea about something, it doesn't have to be food and be anything, you can die on that place. Yeah, you can draw yourself into uh you know a cause and you you can get really unhealthy. I've seen it now, and my you know that I think that's where there needs to be a more open conversation between everyone, you know. Um what what is healthy for people? And how do we behave in a uh you know, a more humane way and a more quality controlled way? And what you know, how much do we need to consume? How all these questions, but you know, meanwhile, the majority of people are eating crap every day, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Yeah, well, it we we wrote, you know, or or or contributed uh um the red pill food revolution, which I think is the best book ever written on food. And we actually define food and feed. Most people are eating feed, meaning they don't drop dead immediately, but it's nutrient deficient, it's chemical toxic. You know, if it's in a packet, you shouldn't be eating it. But what I want to in the last five minutes, what I what I wanna because I think we've come a really nice full circle from your runny babbitt, you know, blue, right? And and and and his her passing, or his or his passing? His, yeah. His passing, right? And and we're honoring this this podcast is in that rabbit's memory, right? This is what it's about. So, you know, we've covered a lot here, you know, and much of it could be expanded, and much of it might be misinterpreted, and we're open to conversations, you know. But basically, if if you're thriving on a vegan diet, I don't often see it, and I certainly don't see it after five or seven years, great, right? If you're not, listen and start having some different thoughts. But what I've learned from this conversation, starting with your runny babbit or your bunny, I think you said bunny rabbit, but I say runny babbit, right? But but but is, and and all the way up to you know, slaughtering animals and hunting and da-da-da, is just like we said in the medical renaissance, if your ground uh foundation is animals are energy like you, have a spirit, right? And that the cycle of life, whatever whoever created this realm created a cycle of life that everything's eating or being eaten, and you accept all those as your ground rules, then how, how, always intentions, how you kill, how you get your food, how you grow your food, how you look after your animals, how you eat it, you know, the blessings upon it. You know, everything becomes cut more conscious, and and then we are more close to this, you know, how this realm is supposed to function. And this is again back to what the pastagran is that I love to bring in, you know, that energy of there's something about human beings different to the animals, where so food is social and so much more nourishing for the soul than just the flesh.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

Yeah, I'd like to add to that. I mean, uh, in terms of um whatever you're consuming, um are you adding to humanity in a positive way? So you might say, Oh, I'm not gonna eat animals, right? You how can you kill animals? And then have thoughts that you want to kill a human because they kill animals, right? So it it's this idea of whatever you're consuming, are you are you adding to humanity in a positive way? Yeah, you know, and I think you know, then what happens is that there's a um an interrelationship between what you consume, the energy that you gain from that, yeah, you're putting out into humanity in a positive way.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

Well, let's close on that. Let's dedicate this to a rabbit who's crossed over the rainbow bridge to the fluffy green fells on the other side, where it's waiting, you know, as is probably, you know, many of our beloved animals, for those listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

Yeah, it's probably there with my dogs, aren't yours?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Right, yeah, exactly. And you know, um I think although I'm you know stating it in a sort of like almost humorous way, I do believe they're on the other side. I do believe they'll be waiting for us when it's our time to you know go through that shaft of light to the other side, and I can't wait to greet them again. But for now, and for you and your family, we we stay in this realm, we thank them, all of them, for what they've brought to us and what they've given us and what they've taught us, and let us hope that we get to love many more for many more years to come. Amen.