First Do No Harm

They changed the Hippocratic Oath, renamed it, and quietly reframed what it means to practice medicine. We pull on that thread and ask a blunt question: when “first do no harm” stops being sacred, what fills the gap, compassion or contracts?

We talk about the 2017 shift to the “Physician’s Pledge,” why an oath carries spiritual weight, and how modern healthcare often feels more legal, policy-driven, and liability-managed than truly patient-centered. From there, we connect the dots to reductionist medicine, tick box protocols, and the way pharmaceutical “side effects” are frequently just predictable effects that patients are expected to tolerate. We also challenge the idea that a diagnosis is the same as understanding, and we argue that prevention and causation matter more than labels.

A big part of the conversation turns to COVID-19 hospital protocols, whistleblower nurses, and the ethics of incentives, testing, and invasive interventions like intubation. Whether you agree with every claim or not, the moral lens is the same: if harm becomes normalized by protocol, the profession has lost its anchor. We end by exploring “controlled trauma” as the gray area where surgery can be justified to buy time, plus what a real medical renaissance could look like: consent, truth, community, trauma-informed care, and a return to whole-person healing.

Subscribe for more, share this with someone who’s questioning the system, and leave a review so more people can find the conversation. What does “do no harm” mean to you now?

Transcript

Banter And Episode 17 Setup

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, welcome back to the Doctors No More podcast with me, Dr. Jeremy, and my great Welsh friend, Doc Thomas. And prior to starting this recording, we had a five-minute conversation of what episode number we were on, the professional, unprofessional professionals that we are, and we we debated dropping the episode numbers, and we debated getting a grown-up to help us, even. But we've decided that we're gonna. This is episode 17, and going forward, we're gonna write it down, even though we do mark our files correctly. But um, well, we will mark our files correctly going forward, but you know, and Garus the grown-up in the in in the relationship, I'm sure you've worked that out, and even he didn't know where we were at. However, us being mathematically dyslexic and two little boys trapped in Dr. S. You want to say something? He's leaning.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

One and seven, seventeen.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Is that a bingo is there a bingo call for one and seven? There isn't.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I think it's one and seven, seventeen.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

One and seven, but it's an important number in these awakened times, isn't it? Um, anyhow, uh Trump's proposed being the 17th president of the true republic. That's why. Right. Okay. So any and and um, yes, I'll say no more than that. But anyway, welcome to this. Remember, we're actually not just talking to each other. This is the podcast. And today, um, and and like always, I'm always interested to see

First Do No Harm Revisited

SPEAKER_00 2:55

where we go with it, but it's something that is uh becoming more and more important in this uh medical renaissance time versus uh what perhaps has gone on in the quote unquote medical system over the last five or ten years, and that is honouring the Hippocratic Oath. And to my shock, now we've done an episode on the Hippocratic Oath, and specifically it's going to be uh which can't be argued, first emphasis, emphasis, first do no harm. So even if we can't succeed, you know, the medicine, the techniques, everything with intention must first cause no harm. And what I was just looking up before we started, what was the um uh specific changes, the legal changes to the Hippocratic Oath made back in 66 or whatever it was by Lasagna, and we've made all the jokes about you know that some pastor crazy man changed the Hippocratic Oath. But it was changed to allow Doctor to do harm and to end life.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Um and but when I just You know what, can I just say though, do you know what he used to do to make those changes? I don't. A penny.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Oh my goodness. I wish I was in the pub with you right now and ordering the second pint with that one. But um, to my shock and horror, and thank you, that was brilliant. To my shock and horror, just trying to look that up before we came on, they changed, and who they are is I forget who it was on council. They changed the Hippocratic Oath again. Now, this is really significant, and I want you to take up on this. They changed it again in 2017, and I did not know this until just looking up recently. It's no longer called the Hippocratic Oath, it's called the Physician's Pledge. Now, can you now we had an off you know mic conversation, but that's a huge change, and interestingly, in 2017, prior to 2019 and all the shenanigans, it's almost as if it

Oath Vs Pledge Meaning Shift

SPEAKER_00 5:05

was set up as protection. So why don't you explain um as befor as we go into this episode, the significance of changing from an oath to a pledge?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, I mean I I did some research on that when we did that um episode. And it basically changes the relationship from a divine relationship with a um a person, we call it a patient um or human being, and the intermediary is the physician.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So but it includes God, right? Or whatever, yeah. So it's the patient, physician, and God.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Yeah, so it it realizes that the whole relationship is divine, yeah. And you know, the the physician is the intermediary, intermediary between a higher power and that person seeking help. Now this is this becomes interesting in terms of um where that power has moved into. And I always think that you know, in a way, it's similar to um a priest class, right? Yeah, so um if we look at all types of religion or beliefs, the there's an intermediary between God, higher power, and the all the ordinary, in brackets, yeah, ordinary person, you know, and I think that that position of power, if if you are um if you have a calling like that, then you you should have an understanding that what you do within your power has consequences in terms of uh whether you call it karma or you know um what goes around comes around, or just you know, moral, just basic moral instinct. And I think what's happened is when the the oath from its origin, yeah, and I you know you never know that the origin, even that original format may be slightly different to what the absolute original was, you know, because it's an interpretation, but it's definitely moved from that relationship between a divine force to um a covenant or a relationship just between two people, and that's what this new oath is. I think the the well it's not an oath, that's the point, it's a pledge. Yeah, I know. So the the the lasagna um the lasagna oath the lasagna's oath uh um I think started to move it into a more of a covenant type um relationship. So it and now this new new one, what is it called a pledge?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yes, it's called from what I just read, the physician's pledge, you know, and of course, critic critics will argue the lasagna oath is all in the pasta now.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Of course, of course, and why why wouldn't they? You know? But I I tell you what I'm gonna do because I'm you know a highly sort of tech savvy guy.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yes. Well you're known for your tech saviness, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah, well, actually, that is is one of the names that people know me by tech savvy.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Oh, tech savvy.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Tech savvy, yeah, you know. You know, it's it's almost similar to you know Telly Savalis, remember him?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Right. A pledge. A solemn binding promise to do, give, or refrain from doing something. Something given or held as security to guarantee payment of a debt or fulfilment of an obligation, the condition of something thus given or held. Now I can't see any contract. So it's like a it it's it's like um a a contractual um agreement which suggests that there's a um that suggests to me the way it's you know that from if you take that definition that it it it it takes away the the the spiritual part of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Well it's attempted to do that, I would argue.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, it makes it more the truth is you can't but it takes it more into the field of lawful right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

The 3D world, the reductionist world.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yeah, I don't I I I mean I re I remember this happening over a period of you know my practicing life. And you know, in terms of Hippocratic oath, I'm not a medical doctor, so I've not had to stand there and take that, but but I you know being a an energy worker and uh of what I'd call interspiritual development or inner development, I would take those things very seriously, you know. I and probably that's probably what drew me to help you know helping people in the first place. But over the years this increase in um uh getting people's agreement to something has uh grown considerably in terms of consent and written consent, verbal consent, the the differences between that. But I think that the the problem also is that um the risk of um lawful um uh inclusion into things has grown. So that freedom to actually be a physician has sort of been moved down the road. And I I mean I I think sometimes when you look at these changes in you know legislation or you know, oh you know, sort of things that that are major like this, they're not even made by doctors, probably.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Of course they're not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

So you then you start to say, well, where who's who's to benefit from from these changes and who's who's not to benefit? And I think that you know, when you take away that spiritual part, which ultimately you can't because everything comes from you know a higher source, whether you're aware of that or not, or whether you want to be aware of that or not, that that's just a f a fact, you know. Well, I think it's for me anyway.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah. I think it's very interesting, and I I know you said lawful, but actually I would argue very strongly that we're talking about the legal world and lawful world are is very different.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, well, this is it, you see. This is this this is the problem, isn't it? Everything has become so distorted. There's there's you know, definitions don't mean anything anymore, really.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Well, you know to a certain degree Yes. Well, the reason I did this today is um, you know, we're we're recording this on the 30th of March, 2026.

COVID Hospital Incentives And Intubation

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Is, you know, my the the the it's very interesting that having been cancelled during CONVID um uh and now I'm not, and what is now being allowed on social media is clearly, you know, it's being allowed, and the the Great Awakening is in full swing. But what what can came up on my feed you know over and over again last night and the day before um was excuse me, uh generally um interviews with nurses, mostly nurses and those that experienced um the death of people during uh the the scandemic. Um and of course the human experience should be listened to and the bad behavior and illegal behaviour that went on, but the nurses were the credible, not that they're not credible, but the nurses are the horse's mouth, so to speak, the the whistleblowers that are all coming out now of um the the conduct that went on. And you know, a lot of that conduct was um when looked in the cold light of day, was clearly agenda and money driven. So for example, and this is why I'm you know, what did the first do no harm, right? Because wrapped up in that, the hospitals, which is well documented now and not really hidden, a cot a convid patient being diagnosed with a fake PCR test, which Carrie Mullis said this is not a test, and then conveniently died at the beginning of the pandemic, so he couldn't say anything more about it. And we all probably know or aware that the PCR um alleged test worked on cycles, and and Carrie Mullins said, you know, anything above uh 25 or 30 cycles, you're into science fiction, and they were routinely, routinely cycling it at 40, 45. So it was absolute science fiction. It was a scandemic of fake and false data, is the point that I'm putting forward. But if that positive label got put upon that person, that human being, and on their chart, the hospital now was in a position to make up to a million dollars. Um and particularly if they intubated. And the intubation, as far as I can tell, is the reason so many deaths occurred during that period. And of course, the uh the paperwork, or what I call the fake data, paperwork continues, that they would be recorded as a COVID-19 death or or what have you. But actually it was intubation, um, which is if you don't know, it is forcing that horrible metal tube down their throat to allow them to breathe. The machine makes them breathe, and basically what was happening was the pressure from the oxygen was damaging the lungs, and so the actual oxygen level in the blood would go down until they'd die. The nurses knew, right? At the time it was 80% that went on, didn't survive. In fact, I think it's much higher than that. But the point I'm getting to of first do no harm and why that really resonated with me last last night is you know, the original oath, albeit may be uh uh translated slightly wrong, the harmonics and the resonance and the ability for a human being, anyone, illiterate human being, to understand, if it's read to them, of course, you know, first do no harm, should and is still the foundation of all work, even or I should say especially if we fail. Now, there is a grey area which I want to go into later on in the podcast that you've taught me, and that's what we what you correctly labelled um controlled trauma, and we'll talk about that a little bit later for the benefit of buying more time. But essentially the foundation, you know, the non-gray bit, is a treatment, excuse me, a treatment, a protocol, a quote-unquote medicine. And most people in the world, if you say the word medicine, they believe it's a positive word, right? Unfortunately, when we talk about medicine or medication, we're normally talking about a pharmaceutical, or I call it pharmaceutical, I just dropped the P, a pharmaceutical drug. And yes, there are some good drugs I know, but it's very few and far between. Most of them, if not all, have very toxic or accumulative toxic side effects which aren't measured to get them past this so-called safety, you know, safe and effective and what have you. So if any medication, any treatment, any protocol, whatever fails at the level of it causes harm, i.e., it isn't nurturing, uh uh restoring or strengthening in the very first instance, then it's already offending the first do no harm, unless you go into the grey area where doing quote unquote controlled harm, and let's not get to surgery bit yet, you know, some toxic drug, or and let's let's not forget that I'm not talking about natural medicine is the the answer to everything. In fact, I like to call true medicine rather than natural medicine. And this is the big point I'm getting to with the philosophy. Many plants are super toxic. You know, you can eat a certain mushroom and drop dead, right? You know, most of the medicine or a lot of the medicine has come from the plant world and they've isolated things or from oil. But if you take something or do something that causes trauma or damage, but gives you more time or gives you more opportunity to uh venture forward recovering your health, then it can fit into the philosophy. And what I'm gonna hand back to you, Gareth. What what I'm seeing, particularly in the last six, seven years, is an escalation of really serious chronic diseases, the turbo cancers, the myocarditis, the you know, the autoimmunes, these these strange clots that have been called calamari clots and all kinds of things. And an escalation since then of treatments and medicine and protocols that cannot possibly be argued as upholding first do no harm and certainly the removal of a higher help.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

What's any yeah, I I think that um I mean in a in a way that that you know the the Hippocratic oath um that's changed. That's not the Hippocratic oath anymore. So it's not connected to Hippocrates in any way.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yeah, that's important. I never thought about that. Energetically, I mean it's it's removed from that.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

It's just disconnected from it. So it it's something totally different

Reductionist Medicine And Drug Effects

SPEAKER_01 20:15

to that. So that philosophy, it's it's disconnected from it. So when you disconnect from one thing, you connect to something else. Now I think the the the the advent of um reductionist medicine when everything is based on science and science and science and science and science. And there's there's aspects to science which are good, like everything. But what's happened is that what's happened is that it's not just the you know, it's this thing of human consciousness again. If if you take medicine as a uh a a wavelength, a band of consciousness, it's existing within a certain frequency, and the people in it exist within a certain frequency of thought, uh, an action and emotion, and the the the patients or the people drawn to it are are moving into that frequency because they they they believe that um process. Um so in a way it is what exists because it's it that's what it is, it's divorced from something that was uh derived from you know Hippocrates, who was most definitely someone who talked about the the importance of the soul and the connection to the soul to the human being, and how do you keep that in a place where it's harmonious and healthy? And that means if you don't know really how to bring health back to Person, do no harm. Don't do something that you think might be might be right. And I think what's happened because medicine has divorced itself from that intuitive part, people are just doing things out of systems. Tick box. You know, and we know it's proven over the last sort of four or five years how distorted science can be and how rigged it can be.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Well, in terms of the the evidence suggests that hugely the majority of I I call it BS, bad science, is not evidence-based medicine. It's not so it is it is profit-driven and agenda-driven.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Because if you if you if you you're a person who's say gone through your education, you've gone to university, you've gone done your doctorate, you've gone to do your you know, your professor in a um uh an institution, and you've gone through all of that, right? And you're you're doing research, and your research, its outcome depends upon um your funding and the money that you bring into the college, right? Yeah. Now you might on some level think, well, I'm behaving ethically, but unconsciously you will want to create the right result.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

But I don't think uh certain, but I don't do well, I'm gonna I must pose it as a question. I'm not convinced. I think there's mostly good people that go into modern medicine, although you know the research shows that it's no longer vocational, it's 80% driven by a career and status and that sort of thing, which is the wrong energy. But I'm not convinced their conscious concern is ethical. I think their conscious concern is legal.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yeah, but what I what I'm saying is that even if you you're in that place and you you're consciously thinking you're doing right, right? There might be an unconscious pattern within you that fears not getting the money for it, right? There's a mountain, there's a big difference between what you consciously think is right and what unconscious patterns you carry, right? It's big difference, and you know, I this is not something that you can intellectualize as it's this part of the brain, it's this, it's consciousness. So if you're connected as a whole to that whole consciousness of of medicine, and you can see what's happened over the last few years where people have tried to break away from that consciousness, and they want to break away and create something that's that's more ethical, it's more in tune with with something that's human, right? And that's the the the the the the very, very common signs of a system breaking down. Now, you mentioned about drugs and side effects. I always think of drugs as they're not side effects, they're effects.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

The drug has effects.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

The fact that you use side effects suggests that, oh, this might happen or it might not. They tend to happen, but people are different, so they'll happen at different, you know, different levels of for people, depending on what makeup they are.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

And but you can never escape. I mean, this word effect, you're right. It's that's still a fluffy way of saying, you know, you you cannot be deficient in a pharmaceutical one second, you cannot be deficient in a pharmaceutical drug. Therefore, the body's response and dependent on your detoxification pathway, metabolic ability, the health of your liver, the health of whatever, right? You know, these effects, which are not measured accumulatively, by the way, um, or if they do, it's for like 12 weeks, right? But you know, it point being, right, you know, it it's a sales technique to get across the line taking poison for an alleged response because it's not ever naturally found in the body, therefore the body recognises that and has to do something with it to break it down and release it.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah, I'm I it always brings me back to my my favorite doctor of all time, which is Edward Bach, you know? Yes. And the you know, a medical doctor who who saw very early on that just treating signs and symptoms was not the way. Yeah. You know, and I think that this this is this pattern of treating signs and symptoms has become so ingrained that you know, somebody starts on one drug, then they get another drug for the side effects, or the effects of that drug, then another. And you know, all those things are written down in um massive books of you know, does this interact with this? Does this interact? And it's all very much on black and white. Yeah, it's it's are the interactions does this interact with that, and then it's like, well, hang on a second. If you take a hundred people and they're all on the same drug, the interactions are going to be different within each one, yeah, to some degree. So it's this the it's this um reductionist view down to human beings are all the same, they have the the same, you know, um circulatory system, the same central nervous system. We're all the same, right? But yeah, and the fact is is that if you if you treat and look at people like that, you can only go with a system that is tick-box, like you were talking about a pathway of you know, the the the Liverpool, is it Liverpool pathway?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yes, horrendous.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, so but but it's because they look at someone and they go, okay, it's A B C D E, then we go on to part two, this, that, and it it's just systematic because the the intuition, the feeling, the compassion side of things is very difficult to hold in in those circles, right? And I think that's that's where it's gone wrong. And I I'm I know there's people in the in that industry who went into it with the compassionate side, of course, and they can't stand it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah, and they're they're trapped. Well, they're not trapped, but they are trapped, the perceived trap, because you step out of it and you lose so much.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

But it's it's even to the degree of I I look now at you know, people coming

Tick Box Care And The AI Future

SPEAKER_01 29:05

to me and they say, you know what, I can't get an appointment with my GP, right? I can't see them for two or three weeks. And what this is another side of of medicine. What I noticed uh, you know, during the scandemic was that when they closed everything down, you when it reopened, you couldn't get things, right? So everything was on telephone conversations or Zoom. And what I don't understand is that the GPs and doctors don't realize at some point they're not going to be needed.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Well, that's that's the sort of you know, that's the plan AI.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

AI. So, you know, you want your doctor's appointment, use the AI doctor, type in your your things, right? You don't need to go to the surgery. We'll tell you, okay, this is outside the complexity of AI. You should go to the hospital because you've got an AE problem, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

It's also what all these smart measurements, you shouldn't be wearing anything that's measuring and feeding system.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

And then what happens is that you get you've got A, B, C, D, D, that equals this from the AIGP. Then they send you your prescription, or even Amazon sort of deliveries it for you, right? Who wins? It always comes down to money, right? And greed is greed and health do not go together.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Well, this goes, this, this, you know, you know, and we've we've talked about um the Flexner report and where it all started to deliberately with intention be structured in the wrong energetic pathway. And I believe we are, I really do, in the medical renaissance. But what you what you brought up there, and and it's not that we haven't said it before, but it needs to be perhaps regularly stated until it becomes conscious. The the medicine is uh a protection racket, a profession that has the legal um Um professions entwined and the and therefore the government and legislation entwined. And it would be marketed as um protecting protection for the patient, right? But it's not, it's a protection racket, you know. Of course there's some grey areas, but a protection racket for the business of medicine. That's what it really is. And the culture inside hospitals, as far as I know and can ascertain and witness myself, is of absolute terror. And I'm not talking about the patients, you know, absolute fear that they will legally um screw up and you know be sued or be uh disciplined and lose their life. And you know, I was watching one of these doctors last night. I forgot to mention him, he was great. Um his name escapes me. He was English, but he was practicing in very well spoken in Canada, and he was just a small GP, like a nobody, right? And he was administering the COVID convid vaccines and seeing this catastrophic decline and death in his patients, which he knew quite well being a small GP. And of course he did what in a decent is what Graham Mackinson did as well. You know, wrote to the appropriate authorities saying, I am seeing this, and got jumped on uh from like with a ton of bricks of you are spreading misinformation. And no, he's spreading information, right? Yeah. And actually he took them up. They they they tried to really screw him, and he got a fantastic lawyer who got a fantastic team of experts together and defeated them. Uh um, you know, it was a real a real um Goliath story, you know, and of course it was never so the point being, right, and these stories are emerging now, and these these unsung heroes um uh within medicine are are finding their limelight.

Fear Culture And Removing God

SPEAKER_00 33:10

But the fact is, it is not set up to protect people who are you know legally called patients, they're people. It is, for the better part, set up to protect business models. And you know, and and this this is why we're going, it's very important that when it's moved from an oath to a pledge, you've removed God, whatever that means to you. And you know, what I love about things like uh Alcoholics Anonymous, not that not that I'm a huge fan of what they're doing, and you and I agree on this because to say I hello, I am and I am an alcoholic creates and s and supports a pattern. You're not. It's for other reasons that we talked about the other day. But what I do like about Alcoholics Anonymous and and and drugs anonymous or whatever it's called, is the number one law of their 12 steps, or number one step, is you must accept. It doesn't mean you have to become religious, but you must accept that you need higher help in this. And the truth be told, the art of medicine throughout the eons of time has until recently, in in historical terms, always accepted that you are the healer. We're just assisting or teaching, you know, uh and and trying to connect with energies. You know, no doctor has ever cured or helped anybody, right, in the sense of that the body heals itself, the body is divine, education help, and of course, energies and techniques are uh uh advantageous or disadvantageous as the case may be. But to remove God or the divine from the equation must must have, I'm almost gonna say evil, but must have intentions behind it. Otherwise, why would they do it?

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Yeah, I think that you know, uh you can break it down to very basic stuff. Um I'm sure there's lots of people in the pharmaceutical industry that think they're doing good, right? But at the end of the day, that's a business and they've got shareholders who want to be paid a certain amount every yeah, you know, and that's been allowed to really hook into it, not only into medicine, but into politics as well. It's in it's it's in everything, right? Yeah, because the it's let's think about you know the the biggest money makers on the planet. It's death, war, and disease. You know, it just shows it shows us if we really if we could stand off and look down from above and and look at it, you just think, wow, this civilization is stuck in war and disease. And not and not just from the point of view of it's a natural thing, it's it's it's consciously being created.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Right. Right hence why I mentioned the word potentially evil.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

So I mean that word for me has different sides to it. One can be an energy that uh doesn't want to evolve, it's involution, right? So it's not to it's not towards if evolution, right? Or you could take the biblical sense and it's the opposite of God, you know, of angels, it's got the dark angels or whatever. You can look at it in any any sort of but it's you know if you if you take if you take any person and I think most people, even people who'd say they're atheists, right? Yeah, they say, I don't believe in God, but I do believe you should be good to people, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

And I think the bets.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah, but they they got they are a piece of bread with butter on both sides, that's it, that's it. And then they get another piece of bread with butter on both sides, put something in between and shove her in a brevel, or they make a toasty.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Stop. Look, don't get oh my god, toasted. I try and stay well, I haven't had one for everyone in ages, but oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

I mean, uh that toasty was good enough for Hippocrates, tell you.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah, but did did he have a Brevel then? I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Well, I don't know, maybe. Yeah, maybe he had a couple of Hippress.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

You remember like George, you remember like George Foreman? I've now got these images of Hippocrates, you know, um not knocking out the fat, but add the fat and you know with a couple of fat carved stones from the fire. That's it, that's it, that's it. The Hippocrates stone toaster.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

And while he was sitting there eating it with his his students, he had that moment. He went, I think we should create an oath.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

That could be it. He could he probably said, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Oh my god, this is so good, yeah. You know, and then the the idea of an oath came along.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

That's it. I'm I'm running with in my mind, I'm running with that was real.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Oh man, I wish I I I wish I could cartoon, you know? Yeah, that'd be great, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Well, maybe maybe our listeners can, right? You know, biting into it and going, oh my god. Oh my god. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I should write an oath to protect this, but yeah, so coming back to the atheists, right? Um, and I mean I i if I look at it, I was probably slightly atheist, um, whatever that means, back in the day. But I you know, I found I thought I was a decent person.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

So if you if you are a decent person and you you carry a vibration that's you know evolving, then that's a natural, you know, sort of um protection as such against things like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

But can I ask you, it's really interesting to me, nature versus nurture. I believe this decent person, as I'm going to talk about, right? Or human.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

I I believe that that that we do naturally seek to do good. And that when you do harm, that it does have a negative. So whether you accept God or divine or whatever exists or not, there is um a wonderful feeling. Now, of course, cynics would argue it's you know dopamine or serotonin or or you know, but but then it's being done by design. Yes, do more of that, you'll feel better, as opposed to doing harm and fear and you know, so so it then just for me logically feeds back divinely, it must be do you you are meant to do good to yourself and others and no harm, do no harm, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yes, do no harm, do good.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

It it resonates at every spiritual, logic, physical, chemical, hormonally. You know, when you're in a state of happiness, which means you can't be harming unless you're really fucked up right. Oh god, there's that tick box again, sorry, Gareth. You know, but you know, if it you know, and and quite honestly, those people who get off on harming animals and others have been labeled quite clearly over time as psychopaths. Yeah, right? There's something not right with you, and that could be soul level, it could be from nurture, you know, that those things can be explored another day. But our default at physical, mental, emotional, and arguably spiritual is you get rewarded for doing good. It feels good as well, doing good. I can't get that damn toasty off.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Ah, yeah, that's the hypocritic toast. I'm gonna have to make a hypocrite. I'm gonna have to make a Hippocrates toasty now.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Look, you've set the stage with a bit of Welsh influence.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah. A little bit of leak in there, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

I don't know. Yeah, you're play play with it, play with it. You know, but seriously, you're talking about you thought you were a decent person versus you know, you at that point you didn't have such a great channel with the man upstairs. But forward from that, you were still hedging your bets.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yeah, I was hedging my bets, and then you know, life took took a turn of um

Addiction, Dependency And Listening To The Body

SPEAKER_01 41:55

uh addiction for a few years. And the the only way I really could stop that was not nothing to do with anyone else. I had to make a decision from a higher point of view, yeah. Which you you know you could call God light uh creator.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Well, can I ask you a question on your addiction? Because it this is totally linked with this. One imagine you you thought you were a decent person, and I'm sure you were, right? Um, and you had a brief period of addiction, your own words.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

One must argue Which was useful because I that's what you know I work with with people.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Right, and people don't do drugs to feel shit. So presumably there were some very positive, seemingly, moments at that time. Certainly, you know, I'm sure there were. However, at some because I always teach listen to your body, and I think this is all linked into what we're doing. At some point, the drugs don't work. And you must have started going, this isn't right or feeling good. I again the feelings guided you. Would that be correct?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yeah, it is correct. I mean, I uh what happens is that it's like any any drug, right? Whether it's legal in brackets, yeah, exactly. Or illegal. It's legal.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Sorry, that was my Michael Jackson South Park, you know, any impression.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Anything though. It's like you you're taking it to medicate in some way, to do something, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

To suppress and enhance.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah. So if if you if you don't work through the causation of why and replace the drug with something that's meant to be naturally there, you just keep on that road, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Well, this is really important, isn't it? You know, and it's it's kind of like obvious now I'm thinking it, and I've probably spoken about it, we've probably spoken about it, but the fact is that if the drugs were a positive thing, you wouldn't have stopped. And so when you get back to this decent person. And behavior. Yeah. If it wasn't a positive natural thing, right, you wouldn't have stopped or in different corrected your trajectory.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Either that, or I would have taken it for a certain period of time and then stopped. So if you take anything that's for something, you're taking it, and then if it if you get to a period where it completely heals it, then you don't need it anymore. Right. But the the problem is that once you take something and you're dependent on it, and that can be anything, right? Of course. Then you form a pattern of dependency. And when you form a pattern of dependency, you're disempowered.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Well, this then continues to support the foundation, because I want to link this into philosophy. And I do want to bring in briefly, you know, controlled trauma and surgery, right? Because it because it's uh it it does offend the first do no harm, because if there wasn't anesthetic, you'd freaking probably die. But let's get in that in a moment. This still strengthens the philosophy of first do no harm because the guidance of your behaviour and the guidance of what you put into your body, including thoughts, are driven by how it makes you feel. And that's been set up, I believe, at a divine level, right? To go, yes, that is the right thing to be doing. Yes, that is the wrong thing to be doing. And unfortunately, and it's a lot what we teach in the membership about listening to your body, when you start a subtraction method, because there's just so much noise in this world. And when I mean noise, you know, there's a vibrational. So from eat, you know, from eating processed foods to eating quote unquote natural foods to electromagnetic pollution to literal noise and disinformation and information and all everything in between. There's just so much noise. So when you do a subtraction method, you start to take things away. You start to take yourself away from certain environments. You can start to hear the body. And I would argue in a modern hospital, it's extremely noisy and crowded with um uh harmonics and vibration and information and stress that it's very difficult. And actually, I'll I'll jump further than that, because the last time I was in a hospital, unfortunately, you know, or sorry, the one before that, it hit me again that these new doctors were, and I'm gonna call them new doctors, and they may have been doing it 20 years, were mostly walking around with a computer on a trolley with wheels. And as I observed them, almost never did they even look at the human being. It was all computer and ticking boxes and large, it's just so dis it's just so removed, you know. But anyway, it doesn't it's not he it doesn't feel human, it's not human, and so I guess what I'm saying, and to hand back to you, is the the the way to behave, the way to live, and the way to heal cannot be divorced from harmonics and how you feel, and is it positive?

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Yeah, I mean uh to me that's quite an obvious thing. Uh uh if you look at what why do people get um unwell? It's because that you know there's a disconnect, and we've talked about this before. You know, from the the soul energy has some purpose. Now, I you know, this is this is why I always find that a health care, whatever you want to call it, that this journey that we're all on to try and you know have a nicer life and to to move through things that are challenges and trials and come out the other side a better person. Yeah. But this is one of the the problems with the reductionist approach is that for one you you think that people you know don't have a spirit, another one is that it's just one lifetime, yeah. Right. And the and that as you said, that people are like a bag of chemicals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Well, do you know what? If you're going to be practicing in that field, and you've probably divorced yourself to some degree from the man upstairs, whatever that is to you, then seeing a human being as a bag of chemicals in a very simplistic way, but it's essentially what it's taught, is much easier to do, you know, which is what part of this conversation is about, the harm or the offense to the first do no harm in the first instance.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Well, it it it it's basically, you know, if you don't have the awareness or knowledge that there's something beyond it, you can't bring those energies in.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

So, okay, let's let's flip to the other extreme then, and the grey area that does exist because we've been so many generations off track and in disease and the the pattern of disase. I mean, you know, you can't argue

Controlled Trauma And When Surgery Makes Sense

SPEAKER_00 49:30

it, right? Yeah, it's in America. I mean, you know, find me someone who's not metabolically unwell or the Western world, it's it's so obvious. But I want you to talk about how you can justify, and I know you can because you've you've converted me um logically, how you can justify surgery, which you correctly, whether it be from dental all the way up to major surgery, right? Um, which you correctly called, and I love that you named it that way, it's helped me tremendously, controlled trauma, but within a philosophy of, you know, to buy time or create a situation um where someone can continue a much better path.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Yeah. Um well if you if you look at the the usual scenario is that you know somebody, and I'm not talking about trauma as in AE trauma, break your leg trauma, right? That's that's a diff that that is that it's so needed.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Um, and yeah, there there are some ancient ways of healing things, but we don't live in that consciousness, so we've got to use what we've got in our consciousness, which is basically you break your leg, you go down A and E and get it sorted, you know. If you're in massive pain, have painkillers for a short period of time, and then you can sort out the you know the detoxification of that later, and the reason why you've got your broken leg, right? Yeah, um more I'm talking about is people who they they they get a a disease diagnosed, right? Yeah, and they say, Oh, this this is something we can't um we can't um cure with drug drugs only we need to cut it out, right? So let's say that that space of time, if you're lucky and you go privately, right? Diagnosis, all right, investigation diagnosis surgery can you know if it's a serious thing, it can be within a period of two weeks, right? If you're um lucky enough in the NHS, you might get a similar thing depending on what area you're in, but it might take longer, right? So, however, even if it's two weeks or ten weeks, that amount of time is nothing really in how long it's taken for the disease to actually manifest.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

I agree, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:08

So the manifestation of the disease could have started in childhood. And this is where my you know my fascination in in healing comes into you know why it's so important about past or other lifetimes. The pattern could have been created in another lifetime, yes, and you're still playing it out in this lifetime, and I don't want to go down the glamour path where you you know you go and people go and they go, I've got I've had a past life regression. Why? What's the if it's meant to come up when it's meant to, it'll come up, don't go digging into stuff. And I think sometimes people go into it. Some people have good results, some people don't, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:55

I I prefer to stay in this realm, this time.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah, look, I I I you know in energy work when I teach, we we talk about past lives, other lifetimes, and causal patterns from those times and how they might affect people in this lifetime, or it's a pattern that you carry through, either to heal for yourself, you might even heal it for your family, right? Yeah, it might be a larger pattern that you've soulfully agreed to heal to learn from. But what I'm trying to get at is that reductionist medicine is a window, and because it doesn't go into causation and prevention, it has to cut it out to save that person at that point because it's manifest, and to try and reverse that process could take years, which sometimes people don't have because it's become so manifest that it's it's creating an imbalance in the body that's gonna kill someone, yeah, you know. Now, let's say we we move, we we go 150, 200 years in the future, if things go well, right? When when things go well, yeah, when things are in that place where we understand health in a way that's um and again mentioning Edward Bach, right? His idea was that we could eradicate most disease.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Yes, I believe so.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

So we we educate our children about it, how important it is to, you know, uh have an understanding of how to move through certain trials in life. We we have people who've worked through trauma, we don't repress it, we work with it constantly, and it's more open, we have more loving communities, more caring people, and there's it's not this isolation of people, and that means that humanity has to move into a more heart-centered place, so they have to move into a higher way of being rather than stuck in the lower, lower realms of ego. Yeah, I'm a doctor, you're a quack.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Yeah, right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

I'm I'm a doctor, you're the patient, I know best. Yeah, I the the egoic sense of things causes um conflict. Yeah, and if you have conflict in a relationship, it does it doesn't allow harmony really to come in. And I I know for a fact that most people I've talked to who've had a serious diagnosis and had medication for it and come out the other end and heal themselves, they've and I've said this before, they've all said to me they made life changes, yeah, massive changes in the way they thought, felt, behaved, and did things in life. And the problem is we need to move forward in healthcare to acknowledge those things as really important. And yeah, the aspects of yeah, the aspects of of conventional medicine, some surgical stuff, some things that are you know short-term supports may be appropriately necessary, but it's this thing of you know, uh reductionist, reductionist, reductionist, uh tick box, tick box, tick box, and it it's just for me, I look at it from the outside and I see oh, there's a new disease, there's another disease. There's so many diseases every single day that you know that's not pro-health. We're becoming more diseased, and is that because they actually really are diseases, or are we just labelling conditions that show emotional and mental blocks and problems? And rather than going into it, which is always painful and difficult, you just say, Oh, we don't want to go there, let's just label it, get a drug made, and we'll we'll do it like that, or cut something up.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

That's a very important

Prevention, Real Causes And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 57:15

as we start to wind up today. That's very, very important because essentially that business model, and it is, has been label it, which is a mistake, uh at least to put it into the box that uh uh that they do and label it. It can be useful to uh bring up a um myriad of symptoms for you start to to consider why the body is behaving in that way and the causation, as you say. But, you know, um and again they then create a test and then they create a drug, and there you've got you've got a new marketing system. You know, the the way forward has to be, that just has to be the ability to um slow down, you know, and and and consider all the factors for for perhaps many years that have been at play to create a situation in the body. So because for me, there are only two diseases. There is growth of tissue and destruction of tissue. But the causations of those are you know myriads of causations, from chemical to physical to mental to even karmic and spiritual, and they have to be reconsidered. Um, otherwise, the trajectory that we're going down in some ways of is this great reductionist of mankind by the labelling and the treatments that are not honouring, you know, first do no harm. And if that is not restated as a key foundation moving forward, then then I uh and we are, we're in the medical renaissance, but if it's not, you know, the human the the the human tol uh uh what's the word I'm looking for? The human uh outcome of this is is not good.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

You've just gone full circle to Hippocrates.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

Yeah. Basically. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:15

And how long that was that was over 2,000 years ago, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 59:20

Yes, because you know, truth is truth, right? You know, um people could argue we're more advanced. I would argue that we're we have the opposite, you know, we are so far off course of how we were designed to function. And I use the word design by by by its very meaning means that there's some intelligent force behind it. And the only logical pathway to restoring health, which means ultimately preventing, you know, uh and ATP, you know, most of most of man-made's disease is created by by you know man and and the way it's off course. The only logical path is to reassess and re-educate who we are, what we are, and and what is our human design. And I think that's it's reconnecting at every level truth, knowledge, and spirit, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

So well, what's and make sure you have your Hippocrates toasty.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Yeah, I can see it. Like it's like a Fred Flintstone kind of invention, right? These two stones. Maybe even the Hippocratic oath is chiseled into stone so it comes down on the bread, and you know, you're literally eating the oath. So on that note, on that, you know, and people are, you know, carnivals out there are probably salivating now, you know, for a for a cheese and ham toasty.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

On that note, and that image with a little bit of bacon in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

Now, stop teasing me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Any leak?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Thomas. No leaks in it. I can see a leak in a pie, but not in a particular way. It's just wrong, even for a Welshman.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

Yeah, I've seen your pies. Your pies do have leaks, and then all the stuff comes out, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Well, on the subject of leaks, I now am desperate to take one. And we'll end this, we'll end this first do no harm podcast. And thank you for listening. And join us next Saturday or next week when you get to listen to us. Thank you, Gareth. Bye bye.