Left East to West
Weekly check-in on top political stories across Canada, interviews for people building this country
Left East to West
Representing workers with social democrats in power
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Sussanne Skidmore, President of the BC Federation of Labour, shares her thoughts about growth and austerity, labour law reform including sectoral bargaining, and trying to bring that magic alignment to the social democratic labour movement both in BC and federally.
Nikki and Tom discuss Canada's most popular premier Wab Kinew supporting working women by requiring workplace menstrual product access and the Ontario Doug Ford government quietly setting up a $1.3 billion bail-out for some condo developers and support higher housing prices.
This week Nikki is loving "Inside the Manosphere" on Netflix and Tom is heaving the big price jump at the pump.
Welcome to Left East to West with me, Tom Parkin.
SPEAKER_02And me, Nikki Hill. Thanks for joining. And if you can tell others about our new show, Word of Mouth is growing in the activist community, and we'd love it if you could share. We always like to start the show talking about a couple of interesting and important items that maybe aren't national headlines yet. But uh this week we want to talk a little bit about the Manitoba government taking a huge step forward about equity in workplaces. And then we're going to talk about the Ontario Doug Ford government quietly setting up what looks like a $1.3 billion bailout for some condo developers.
SPEAKER_01And we have a feature interview with Suzanne Skidmore, president of the BC Federation of Labor and treasurer of the federal NDP. You'll hear Susan's uh thoughts about growth alternatives to austerity, labor law reform, the difficult task of bringing alignment to Canadian Social Democratic Labor Movement, and some other big questions.
SPEAKER_02Big questions indeed. But before we get to Suzanne, let's take a look at this week Below the Fold. So as you're getting to know us as co-hosts, you're likely seeing some themes in focus. But in fairness, it's still Women's Health Month in March. So that's where we're drilling into again today. And women's health has so many policy gaps that it always requires advocacy. So with that, before we jump in, I also want to highlight a new poll that came out from the Angus Reed Institute this week that showed that Manitoba premier Wab Canoe has the highest approval rating amongst Canada's premiers. And let's pin that before we dive into the issue we're going to talk about. So on March 9th, just uh recently in the last couple of weeks, the Manitoba government announced that they're going to proceed on amendments to their workplace safety and health regulations to require employers to provide menstrual supplies at no cost to employees in workplace washrooms or another accessible location. So this actually made Manitoba the first jurisdiction in Canada take this really critical step forward in towards workplace equity. Now, before we actually get into the menstrual supplies or woke crowd triggers here, because I know they're coming, you'd actually be surprised, Tom, at how basic necessities can become culture war fodder. But I want to note here, I want to bring another leader into the picture. So in 2024, the Doug Ford government in Ontario actually took a leading step forward on this issue to ensure menstrual supplies are provided on construction sites. So, you know, not a place to politicize here about something that people just need to be able to go to work. But you may recall how the MAGA crowd came up with a new nickname during the election last year in the States for as a tampon Tim for Tim Waltz after similar initiatives. So we do deal with some low maturity levels on this one. Very triggering topic, apparently, for some people. Not sure about the people that are probably listening to us can probably handle it. But I think it's also important to note that some of these policies aren't new. December 2023, federally regulated workers and workplaces are required to have menstrual supplies as well for employees. So that's not just our public service, that's also places like airports, uh, ports, a lot of those places that are already under federal regulation. What we're missing here is provincial regulation because there's still a lot that aren't covered in here. These are not new issues. Probably in the last decade or so, there actually has been a pretty big movement around menstrual health. And again, one of these issues, like we talked about with menopause, where there's a fair bit of stigma. So it has taken a lot of advocacy to move forward. But what the facts are, and there's been, you know, study after study, poll after poll, showing that without access to some of these basic supplies, that people will skip work. That is a it is a conversation about participating in the workforce, not just the workforce, school, community, uh, being out actually able to engage in your community is really critical here, but something people will skip if they can't access menstrual supplies. So this really is a way to make sure people are staying engaged in their education, staying engaged in their workplaces. Uh, having done advocacy on this issue myself, we have really heard stories about people just, especially people like retail workers, lower-paid people who just skip shifts if they can't actually afford to ensure that they have menstrual supplies on hand. So the concept here is actually pretty simple, even if this is triggering for you. It is that no one actually goes in a bathroom with their own toilet paper and menstrual supplies are no different. So, really, what Manitoba is doing here, and again, like the Doug Ford government did, like the federal government did, is making sure employers like toilet paper, like soap that we all expect when we go in a washroom, are ensuring menstrual supplies are there. It's just adding specificity on the requirements for some of those basic hygiene needs. So, like toilet paper and soap, most would say these are actually essential items and they're treating them in that way to make sure that workplaces and public washrooms are accessible to everyone. So if we weigh out here, kudos to the Manitoba government. And I think, you know, kudos on being out loud and proud on this as well. Seeing lots of MLAs out celebrating, including um going beyond the women in their caucus and making sure that some of the men are out talking about this as well and promoting the new workplace regulations. But the, I think really, if we look at the scale, supplying menstrual products is actually quite a small investment, especially when you're implementing at scale versus being able to ensure people are participating in the workforce and getting into work. And just one more related note is that the 2024, in early 2024, the BC government uh had commissioned a period poverty task force, which I happen to chair as a volunteer. This very same recommendation was delivered to the BC NDP government in 2024 for legislative changes to parallel regulations in BC as a top priority for addressing equity. So now advocates like myself are hoping that the BC government picks up this baton from the Manitoba folks and comes the second jurisdiction in Canada to implant it.
SPEAKER_01Some unfinished business here.
SPEAKER_02Unfinished business in our show today.
SPEAKER_01See what you're guys see where you're going on this one. Well, good for you. You know, it's it's it's funny. Uh uh There's also a uh there's another way that I think we kind of forget about this kind of issue, which is that people who don't have a lot of money, um sometimes honestly, going out and getting shampoo and and s and and and soap and toilet paper and tampons is an expense that they they literally do not have the money to do. Yeah. I I know this is a s you know, this is not a middle class situation, but I have absolutely experienced people who are like, I don't have the money right now to just go to the store and and get anything. So how are you supposed to go to how are you supposed to go to work?
SPEAKER_02Um anyway, but it actually might be a middle class situation because one of the reasons some of this advocacy came out was seeing that food banks started actually in London, Ontario with a campaign called Tampon Tuesday, because food banks never had menstrual supplies. And now that we do actually see more middle class folks using food banks, it all does equate into your what affordability issues are exacerbating, right?
SPEAKER_01Certainly. Certainly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's probably my last uh March women's health rant, but there we go. I took the opportunity. So over to you, Tom, on your below the fold this week.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, Nikki, um if you heard anything about Doug Ford last week, it was him making a lot of noise to try and try and distract people from his new retroactive legislation that overrides a court order for him to surrender his personal phone records, records that no doubt would have revealed widespread illegal and unregistered lobbying, probably a whole lot more real sleazy stuff. So uh while Doug is trying to toss out anything that will make a big bang, clang, or flash, he weirdly hasn't thrown in the story of a recent $1.3 billion investment that at top line sounds like a good news story. The Financial Post reports the government of Ontario through its Build Ontario fund is providing $300 million to Higart Capital, an asset management firm. HighArt plans to use the $300 million to attract a billion from private sector investors and use all of that money to purchase about 2,000 condo units and convert them to long-term rental, about 500 of them being affordable, according to HigArt's press release. So that sounds pretty noble, right, Nikki?
SPEAKER_04Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Why? Who wouldn't want to get into that? Well, I reached out to uh Jeremy Withers. He's a very smart researcher with new housing alternatives, a Canada-wide housing research partnership based at the University of Toronto. I reached out to him about the story because to me it sounded a little suspect that they were going so low bridge on the on the communications. And here's the thing.
SPEAKER_02So good news not being communicated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's something wrong there. Yeah. You can always wonder. Yeah. So here's the thing. These 2,000 units are already on the market. They're already built, or they're well underway in construction. So this $300 million from the good people of Ontario isn't providing, it isn't creating even one housing unit. It's a bailout for condo developers who can't unload these condos. Oh, it's a housing market. Just to make sure everybody understands that usually condo units are sold pre-construction, bought by a mix of investors, some big, some small. Their cash finances the construction and lets the developer unload their debt and build using other people's money. We should we should all try this approach to life, Nikki, I think. But um Toronto's condo market imploded on March the March 2nd, 2022, and that was the day the Bank of Canada ended its near zero interest rate policy as an inflation wave took hold. And from 0.25%, the bank hit 5% in interest rates uh within about a year, and that made the mortgages on new condos too expensive for the rent that could be charged. So condos stopped making sense as an investment. From 30,000 new condo sales in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area in 2021, last year there were only 1,559. Yeah. From 30,000 to 1,500. Urbanation, a condo marketing market data comp uh company consultancy reports that at the end of 2025 there were nearly 3,900 completed and unsold new condo units sitting on the market empty. So these are the units we're talking about. And of course, it hasn't helped that in the rush for everyone to make money from making money in the 2020-2022 period, um, many didn't care about the quality of the units getting built. And a lot of what's sitting out there and not selling is what the industry very, very delicately likes to call dog shit. Condo prices We really want to buy those. Condo prices have been falling now for four years, and they're still not priced to sell. So condo developers are stuck, unable to sell the units and get their cash out to repay their finances, their bleeding cash, the values of their assets is falling. So high art capital, with $300 million in public money, will kindly take over those units and bail out the developers made bad bets on the condo market. They'll inject $1.3 billion of demand into a dead market, hoping to put a floor under falling condo prices. So it's $300 million we're paying to keep housing costs up. Makes sense, right? In a Doug Ford kind of way, I suppose.
SPEAKER_02Apparently.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So in essence, what they're doing is they're creating a bad bank that will repackage those condo units into an asset fund, sequestering these bad assets from the market. Uh the press releases by HighArt and Build Ontario fund give very little information on the details of what our dear friend Uncle Doug negotiated for us. We don't know the term, we don't know the interest payment on the $300 million. Uh, there's no clarity about how secured this $300 million is. Uh and I high art's press release uh is odd in another way. If you check out their website, it appears to be the only press release the company has ever issued. If you look at the bios about the company's leadership team, there's nothing, not a single word. House a company that appears to have not existed until a few weeks ago got a guarantee of $300 million from Doug Ford are kind of mysterious. And and the last curious thing about HiArt's press release is the name on the bottom. For more information, it says contact Larissa Whaler. She's a laudyist. And Nikki, do you know who she used to work for? I don't. Okay. Well, she was the executive director of communications for the developers, best friend himself, Douglas Robert Ford, Jr. Premier of Ontario.
SPEAKER_04Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So final thought on this one. Uh, what if instead of using $300 million to bail out investors and put these units back on the market rinse and repeat, the financing put these markets, these, these, these units into non-market owners, like the people who will actually live in them.
SPEAKER_02And can't possibly be the only jurisdiction dealing with this challenge right now.
SPEAKER_01I would I would think your jurisdiction is also because you it like what we experience here in the housing market was a like Vancouver's always had a problem with housing for a long, long time. But briefly uh the Toronto prices were in excess of Vancouver prices. But now the implosion is the price implosion over and it's it it you could look at the chart, but the day that the interest rates went up, that was the end. Uh it's been on a dive now for it's over four years. Uh prices have been tumbling. Um so yeah, there's a lot of people bleeding money that their assets are not worth what they used to be, and they're desperate. And uh there's Doug. So I'm sure Mr. Eby's getting pressure on this kind of stuff too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a lot of a lot of housing pressure for sure. I think this government's probably been a lot more clear on on their stance on some of the investments, and and I mean that's fibed a little bit lately too, but I don't see a uh a solution like this being proposed right now.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, anyway, let's be back with Suzanne Skidmore for our feature interview in a moment. Suzanne Skidmore, president of the BC Federation of Labor. Welcome to Left East West. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for having me. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so Suzanne, you're BC Federation president since uh 2022, after two terms as the BC Fed Secretary Treasurer. Uh before that, since 2014, you were executive vice president of the BC GEU, the Government Employees Union, uh originally out of, I understand, local uh 1 uh 1211 in Prince George, yes, where you worked in the court system. Uh and you're also the National Treasurer of the New Democratic Party of Canada. So that's a lot of stuff. Um so thanks for making the time to speak with us.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm ha I'm happy, uh happy to do it. As you can imagine, it's never a dull moment around here. Uh many hats, but I think uh they're all pretty important. I also serve as a vice president to the provincial NDP uh as well on behalf of the labor movement. And so it's uh it's all really important work, but I'm always happy uh to do it, being at the hub of uh things that are going on where sort of labor and politics uh come to meet. And uh honestly, it's never been more important time to be doing this work. And so I'm I'm always happy to happy to do it. Well, good for you.
SPEAKER_02Probably a few things we missed as well. But um so we are we are left east to west. So we're talking a bit national and a bit jurisdictional today, but trying to bring it in for our listeners across the country as well. So obviously, Suzanne, you're elected here in BC at the BC Federation of Labor, but your role does require uh a national scope in many ways. And you're frequently, I see all the time, you're lobbying with Canadian Labor Congress and others in Ottawa, federation leaders, and talking to politicians across the country about workers' needs. So, as you don't need to be told, we're seeing austerity budgets across all jurisdictions, provincially, federally, all provinces, really at this point, large deficits coming out as provinces in particular release their budgets in the last weeks and the coming weeks. What do you think the impact is of these budgets on workers as governments are trying to address issues like deficits and trade disputes?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, we know that, you know, having challenging budgets is rough on all workers, you know, just public sector workers, but of course the workers who rely on uh the services that may be at jeopardy when we're looking at uh big cuts. Uh, you know, here in British Columbia, we are just coming out of the longest public sector strike in BC's history uh with the BCGEU, now the General Employees Union, um, not the government employees union. That's a that's a podcast for another day, I'm sure. Um, you know, that was a long strike. And uh the PEA folks who were out on strike with the BCGU, they just ratified last week. And so good news story there. But of course, um, you know, we know that we like it's tough to govern. We know that, uh, but a strike like this should never have taken this long. Um, you know, and it's gonna create some challenging times, uh, you know, I think for government. Uh, and then when we look at the federal scope, right, we're looking at, you know, federal workers who are dealing with an arbitrary, badly thought out return to work plan, return to the office, um, you know, on top of uh layoffs and a full decade of this fiasco of the Phoenix pay system, right? So these are you know these are big things that are already falling on workers' lap. And, you know, it is a sign that things are going to continue to be rough for working people. Now, the good news is is there are uh there's a bit of a civil lining. Lots of these folks have good collective agreements, uh, you know, and um the public sector bargaining that's happening here in BC, it's starting to move along a little quicker quicker thanks to uh some of the good deals that got set. Uh, but there is still some uh tough negotiating happening here in BC. One of the biggest ones that's going to be very challenging is public secondary sector or the post-secondary sector. Uh, you know, they're still all at the table while we're having a bit of a review of the system. And all across the country, we know that the post-secondary, uh public post-secondary uh sector is, you know, is built on how important public sector education is at all levels. Uh, but then, you know, the model then became dependent on international students and the funding of international students, uh, and that has changed. And, you know, when we're looking at deficit budgets and we're looking at investments that government should be work making, we also need to be making sure that they're continuing to invest in things that are so critical to uh the economy and the country, like public post-secondary education. Um, you know, it's it's tough on workers when we think about things like the threat or the fear of layoff, having been through it myself in the early 2000s when Gordon Campbell and his lot uh got elected, um, and that uncertainty of labor relations. Um, you know, but we know working people have already had to do uh a lot of carrying the burden of this, doing more with less over a long time. And that shouldering that heavy burden has a long-term uh impact, especially in a time when workers actually need the services that the public servants provide, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We had economist uh Aglika Ivanova from the BC Policy Solutions on the podcast a few weeks ago. And uh she made a couple of I think pretty clear but important points. One, uh that the private sector doesn't create wealth in a vacuum. It does so more or less successfully because of the right public sector investments from schools or healthcare, post-secondary roads, affordable housing. Second, um growth and employment produces the public revenue to keep this positive cycle going. Austerity and unemployment does not. So uh the I guess the the question uh I want to ask you is um as a social democratic labor movement, are we bold enough about the need for jobs and growth and uh proud enough when we have some good outcomes? Um what can we do better to try and keep this virtual, this, this, this virtuous circle uh running for us?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's such a great question, right? In times like this, uh, you know, in the moment that we're in, uh, you know, working people need to know all across this country that government actually has their backs, that we're gonna like get through this together, and they need to be seeing those ch tangible differences in their lives every day. They need to be able to feel it at the kitchen table, at the gas pumps, in the grocery store, um, you know, when they're contemplating paying their rent or or even even remotely considering getting into a mortgage or something like that. And of course, at a deeper level, uh, you know, they need to be see it connected to a broader vision, something, you know, that is going to provide uh areas of hope for them and opportunity. Uh, and there's a real opportunity in budgets, provincial. And federal budgets, but of course, there are big gaps as well. And so as a movement, you know, we can empathize with the challenge of governing right now. But as hard as it is to govern, it's even harder for folks to make a living and just get by. And that's what we're focused in on. And, you know, we know that the governments, both federal and provincial, are very hyper-focused on spending, right? Um, but there's a lot that they could be doing, things that they could be more bold and courageous around, you know, doing things like, you know, uh increasing taxes on large corporations and of course the ultra-wealthy. Um, and, you know, there is more room to be bold. There is more room to, you know, show up more positively in people's lives every day, I think, than they even realize. So we're gonna continue to push on that. We're gonna be probably a bit more uh forceful than we even have been up to this point and making sure that we're pointing that out. And, you know, as a labor movement, we need to make sure that we are strong, pointing out progress when we've made it, celebrate the wins, um, uh, but also pointing out the progress that they could be making um as well, right? So, I mean, we've seen some pretty big historic investments here in BC, um, you know, particularly around training, trades training, yes, um, the crane safety announcement that was just just last week that was announced, presumption around firefighters and cancer. Uh, you know, it's a real commitment to show working people that this government is with them, uh, as well as things like um contraceptives, uh, you know, funding for HRT, hormone replacement therapies, uh, diabetes medication. Those things are actually making a huge difference in people's lives. Just the other day, one of my girlfriends was like, just came back from getting my free HRT, uh, you know, and uh obviously more work to do uh there. I know, I know that uh Nikki's, you know, had her had her finger on the pulse of this one. I'm watching it really closely uh as well. Um, you know, but there's also really big federal victories in our caucus, the NDP caucus pushed forward, you know, through some really tough times during COVID, right? We saw some huge COVID relief improvements because the NDP team like had their eye on the pulse and a connection to working people to actually see what was going on for them, and you know, and able, able to push for incredible improvements, dental care, pharmacare, you know, even my dad. My dad's a pensioner. Uh, you know, I mean, he gets dental care now. He doesn't have to pay it out of his pension check. Like that's something that people can actually see and feel. And it's it is huge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's funny because I went in, I went and got my HRT refilled the other day, and I even I've been promoting it, and I was like, zero? I don't understand, right? Yeah, it's a big win. It just happened. Yeah. Yeah. And it and so speaking of other things I did, I went and filled up at the pump today, and gas prices are uh just through the roof. So, you know, we're talking about that those affordability issues for people and how governments, you know, get the backlash when prices are going up. You know, we've been talking about grocery prices on the show, but you know, that is a big jump, I think, looking at the war in Iran that people are gonna be feeling as well. And then that's that pushback to governments to do something about it. So we're in a tricky time, I think, for decision makers for sure. Um sort of switch gears into we already have you know 1.5 million Canadians who are unemployed. We don't see a lot of media attention on this. And, you know, I do think we've seen a fair bit from in the last year since the changes in the US administration to not just BC, but federally really pushing in on major projects agenda to look at the building projects. You know, they talk infrastructure, major projects, capital, um, a lot of natural resource projects here. And then, of course, we're also seeing this defense policy rise up as a way to be growing the economy. But in terms of an industrial policy federally, there, you know, doesn't seem to be as much of that building into our existing strengths. A lot of it is on procurement tax policy. We, you know, happy to see skills and infrastructure in there, of course. But what about some of those value-added industries? You know, here in BC, the shipbuilding, for example, has has been a big topic of discussion well before I think we even started to see this impact from the states. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I listened to uh the podcast with Bryn, uh, you know, and so it was uh with Brynn Burke from the BC Building Trades. And we've been, we have been right alongside with them on this campaign around building ferries here, building boats here, and making sure we're investing in that system. And look, I like I said, I don't envy uh the premier cabinet choices around the things that they have to decide every day. But when we're looking at the BC Ferries or the ferry uh decision that was made, it did feel a little bit like a managerial decision and less like a strategic one. Um and, you know, when we're looking at decisions like this, we have to keep our eye on we, the royal we, the government, right? And you know, we're gonna keep pushing for that, uh, is keeping our eye on the bigger picture, right? Building a more resilient, more sustainable economy that works for people right here in British Columbia. We missed an opportunity of a generation building those boats here uh in BC, training the workers, building the boats, and you know, fully sourcing them, right? You know, yeah, sure, we'll probably get them faster and cheaper uh this one time, but you know, we really have miss that opportunity to level up our workforce, level up our capacity, and also to build local economies and source local materials as well. And so, you know, we know we're competing with countries that do see things that way, that, you know, cheaper, cheaper and faster is is better. Um, but when you have a big opportunity like building, you know, uh the like boats in BC or or any of these big projects in BC, uh, we want the government to be bold. We want them to put forward uh some very positive uh, you know, examples of things that are going to change. Like we've been doing a lot of work on um on a report that we put forward. It's called Connecting BC, and it plans out a bit of a plan of investment into infrastructure around public transit and making sure that there is transportation that connects British Columbians to one another, includes light rail, includes things being built here and you know, all of those things, right? There is a lot of work that can be done here to like immediately A, bring money into the government coffers, but also train up our workforce so that we are a good competitor in the in the you know in the world, in the global economy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think we certainly saw, you know, and I've been thinking about the pandemic times of investments a lot more since I think the BC budget, too, where it's like we know governments can move in quickly when there's that pressure to do so. And and some of those investments did look differently than they're looking now, I think, but did put jobs on the ground at the time. So interesting policy space.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell, but also at the same time, you know, uh you know, federally we had the same problem with trying to buy some uh heavy-duty Coast Guard uh icebreakers. Yeah. We we've allowed the shipbuilding industry to to atrophy and the skills as well. And you you know you could inject money into an economy, um, but it's it takes a lot longer to build a shipyard and build the ship uh the the shipyard worker's skills, um which is why uh one of these two new uh heavy icebreakers is well the hull of it is being built in Finland. So uh, you know, that could be that could be steel that's coming from you know my home province um going into ferries or or ships anywhere in this country while those mills are uh under attack. But anyway, that's a bit of a side story.
SPEAKER_02Well I saw the BC jobs minister out talking shipbuilding with on this week on out on tours, so you know getting some progress there, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good, good line. Well, uh the the BC Liberals uh they defeated the BC NDP back in 2000. And the next year, um, when 37% of BC workers were union members, they amended labor laws, including blocking the card check route to union certification. Uh and then in tw after 2017, the NDP came back in and 2019 restored card check certification. Uh union membership had fallen to 28% by that time. But since the change, it's it's rebounded a bit up to 31%. Just how important do you feel card check is as uh a route to ensure that workers have access to collective bargaining? And what about other changes, uh legal or otherwise, that that that need to be made to help more workers access collective bargaining?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. You know, when we're talking about car check or single-step certification, as the government calls it, uh we've long time called it car check, and so we're having a hard time evolving, I guess. Um but you know, uh it's critical, right? Especially in times when people are struggling. Uh, you know, when you know, unions are the answer for folks, right? The the workforce is changing and evolving, the economic downturn, you know, workers are um, you know, the unemployment rates are are increasing, right? We know that unions are a solution for a lot of people. Like, you know, there is no social program, there's no sort of tax incentives that government can do or a business strategy that lifts people's standards of work, their standards of pay, uh, than being part of a union, right? Than having that union card in your wallet, whether it's you know, physical or virtual. Uh, we know that this actually changes people's lives, right? Um, and of course, there's more changes that we need to see. There, we've had been having a lot of conversation with government around uh things like sectoral bargaining, uh, you know, especially when we're talking about different types of workers and the, you know, and the evolving, changing face of work um and how people work, uh, as well as first contract legislation. We're put, you know, been pushing for that as well. Uh, one of the hardest things for workers who get into a union for the first time is getting across the goalpost, right? Being able to get their first collective agreement. And so, you know, there there needs to be some standards around that, a bit of a framework, um, you know, because you know, we aren't gonna be sitting around and waiting for government to do these things. We're gonna keep pushing, we're gonna keep our foot on the gas and uh and make sure, you know, and also we're doubling down on organizing, right? We're talking to all of our affiliated unions about how important organizing works are, we're, you know, making sure workers have access. And we're just about to launch a new campaign, which I'm really excited about. Um, and uh, you know, just a little sneak peek about it. It's gonna be launching kind of in the later spring and all across the summer, um, you know, and it's our unions are for you campaign. And we are gonna be targeting all workers who don't have unions, but especially younger workers or workers in different types of industries that haven't traditionally seen themselves in in unions and newcomers to the country as well. And the message is really clear. It is like if you want to make work better, you want to earn more money, you want to get a better more respect at work, then unions are for you, right? And unions, of course, are for all of us. Uh, the stronger that, you know, workforces together, that collective voice that people have, uh, the more of a counterweight they are to sort of that corporate power that people often feel in the work sites, big or small. Um, you know, and and of course, the more room it gives government to be able to take some of the actions and do those bold moves. We were talking about earlier uh as well, right? And so I I'm pretty excited about it. You'll see some hot pink, hot pink toutes uh floating around, likely, and uh and some fun campaign match material. And we're gonna be out all over the province uh spreading the message. We'll be at community festivals and pride festivals and just wherever workers are, farmer, you know, farmers markets and things like that, wherever people are, we're gonna be out there talking about how important uh it is uh to think about being in a union, right? It's a simple message. Unions are free of it.
SPEAKER_01Community-based uh idea.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally. Real grassroots, right? Interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Nice want to talk about that when it's underway.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02Uh so uh a little little bit of a pivot here into politics. So and and the caveat, we of course know that in your role with the federal NDP, you you take your neutrality pretty seriously in these matters as you should, I can say as as former staff as anyone should. So, but we've got convention uh after we have this show air. Tom and I are gonna be there. We have a special show being cooked up with Doug's support, so that'll be fun from live from convention. Cooked up.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I love it. I love it. I think uh we're in like a breaking bad episode or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02We're just we're just letting that or you know, finally getting ranked in the podcast go to our head. But yeah. Uh the but let's talk a little bit about the federal NDP and the labor movement. So uh, you know, of course, the NDP is created in this partnership between labor movement, progressive, social movements, and in any ways of our history, labor's role has been integrated structurally. That's changed over time at different moments as well, but always there in some way to reflect that. So, but of course, any alliance in any sort of we see this in all parties, and we certainly are not, uh it doesn't exclude us in the NDP. It does take time, it needs to move forward, and sometimes that can be you know really clumsy in the execution of it to keep the whole alliance together. So we're nearing the end of this uh kind of elongated NDP leadership race. It probably feels long to you as someone who's in an executive role. Um, and so what we're kind of interested though in thinking a little bit more is about that role for the next NDP leader and how they build some of the strength with the labor movement and and bring that magic alignment into the picture here.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Uh look, I you know, I don't actually think there's any great mystery uh to this. Uh whoever uh should be the lucky winner, the leader that takes, you know, takes steps into the steps into the role uh after convention, once the announcement's made, uh it's gonna be critical that uh they recognize uh that you know the labor movement and the party that we are partners, uh, that it is uh, you know, from the beginning of the existence of the party, the labor movement has been there. We are uh, you know, we are key partners uh in the success of the New Democratic Party of Canada and provincially all across the country as well. It's actually our superpower, I would like to say it's what makes us uh what we are. And of course, we have common values, right? We have the same values of solidarity, of justice, and and equity. And um, you know, gosh, the last several months have illustrated why we need an NDP uh, you know, parliament in Parliament, right? Why we actually need new Democrats' voices in the parliament in strength, right? I mean, we have a small but mighty caucus right now. Um, uh, you know, but as Carney continues to kind of shift to the right even further uh than some of us expected him to, uh, you know, it's going to be more critically important that we continue to build those relationships, right? That the the partnership continues uh even through hard times, right? And that, you know, not being afraid of working through our differences together, right? Um, you know, we've done amazing things. New Democrats have done amazing things uh with very little uh resources, you know, anti-scab legislation is huge for working people. Pharmacare, we talked about that, and child care, universal, like the push for more universal child care. Already talked about dental care and my my lovely dad. But, you know, it like things like that are things that we did together. They're things that we fought for in the labor movement, but also the party was fighting for them as well. And because we did them together, we were able to be successful in them. And what I would say to whoever the new leader is, uh, you know, on Monday morning when they wake up and uh, you know, and start their new life, uh, you know, is that like to embrace that deeper involvement with the labor movement, right? To uh, and that as the labor movement, we also need to embrace it and we need to dig in and work even harder, that we need to make sure that we see um, you know, the federal politicians from our party uh at local events, participating in, you know, things all around the country. Um, you know, I mean, look, you know, we know we know the conservatives, particularly the conservatives, are showing up in our workplaces. You see it all the time, right? You see it all the time uh in every every sector. Our folks need to do that, and we need to do it better. Yeah. And we need to give something people to vote for, right? And of course, the other piece that the leader and the party uh, you know, need to continue to, and of course, the labor movement, we have a huge role in this, is making sure there's actually labor candidates on the ballot. You know, making sure there are people from the labor movement who understand uh unions and the value of unions, that we're making sure that their names are on the ballot and not just on that ballot, but actually getting elected. Because we know when working people are in parliament or they're in the legislatures, uh, good decisions are made. Good decisions about working people happen. And so we need more of that. And that's our work to do as well in conjunction with the party between the two. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01A minute ago you talked about you just mentioned in passing sectoral bargaining, and that's uh something we've uh bandied around a little bit here. Yeah. Uh but the way most labor legislation in Canada is set up, unions mostly bargain with a single employer at a single location. But uh some say this framework puts workers in competition with workers, and sector-wide bargaining would bring more stability, greater union density, and help organize smaller workplaces. Um but uh is it a good thought in theory with too many uh transitional complications in practice? Is there a path to getting the politics right to make that kind of change, to make that kind of shift?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I think so. Look, we already have sectoral bargaining in in in multiple sectors, in healthcare, uh in the building trades, and you know, construction. Uh, you know, we see it in community social services and you know, uh in in other areas, right? And so we actually already know here in BC it's actually a proven winner. It works for working people, right? Um, you know, and the path to getting there is uh simply the vision to do it, uh and of course the political will to make it happen. Uh and the truth is that a lot of workers are getting left behind right now. The structure that their work makes uh it really tough to actually join a union to be able to organize thoughtfully. We have folks who are in small isolated workplaces or individual workplaces. We have gig workers, right? The growth of gig works in this country is astronomical. But we've seen some good wins there with UFCW 1518 and uh, you know, with Uber on the island and Amazon and all of that, right? So we're seeing some successes as well, but we're also getting a lot of calls and uh folks reaching out, people who are doing jobs like dental hygienists, right? Or housekeepers. And collectively, when they come together and set some standards for themselves. It's not a lot to actually ask to have, you know, like what are we all going to get paid for this exact same job that we're doing? Is there a way we can build in some kind of retirement security into this work that we're doing? Could we have some extended benefits so that me and my family can get, you know, prescriptions and uh be able to get the medical care that we need? Like that's what happens here is that people start getting better working conditions and and all of that. And it's complex, it's not simple, but I mean, really, like let's give ourselves some credit. Let's give our friends, you know, I'm gonna say provincially here, I'm gonna give our friends and government some credit. We're actually capable of doing hard things together. And I'm quite confident that we can get this one, you know, that we can win on this one. And what that means is a win for workers, right?
SPEAKER_02Let's talk a little bit about some of those hard things and and think about BC a bit. So obviously, you know, you're a leader in the BC labor movement, and we have a BC NDP government, uh, have since 2017 now, which is creeping up to a decade. And so, of course, you know, like we've talked about since the changes in the US administration, BC and other jurisdictions have had this hard push into the economic development, the building the resiliency within our borders, you know, pretty big changes from where they would have been two years ago or even 18 months ago. Um, and so given that, you know, BC is in a federation, there's so so many levers that are actually pulled in Ottawa, what sort of role can a the federal party, the federal NDP, play as it rebuilds, which is you know a big job in itself, but as it rebuilds in also advocating for workers in BC and then considering in where BC's economic focus it lays?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say um, you know, like the the two are part of the same, right? As we uh, you know, sort of rebuild uh the party and we and we start, you know, getting our strength back up and and all of that, uh, that we need to lean into places like British Columbia, right? You know, uh British Columbia is a key uh part of the key foundation of the party, um, you know, and other places, obviously as well. I mean, there's gonna be other places where they're gonna have to lean into you, but here in British Columbia, we have historic support for the cross for the party across the province uh and for the values and you know, and policies that new Democrats push. So I think we need to uh sort of lean in and not shy away from the uh thorny issues, right? You know, economy. We talk about the economy and we talk about workers, we talk about the climate, um, you know, and all of those things and pretend that these things can be solved uh sometimes like the other guys do, and what I like to call the bumper sticker uh solution, through, you know, three word little lingoy type things, but like actually not be afraid to do. The work and be able to communicate that out to people, right? This is should not be a fight internally about what's important to us. We need to uh make sure that working people here in British Columbia and then of course across the country know that the NDP is on their side and we actually need to lean into that whether you work in a mill, a mine, a ministry, or a mall, right? Even more important as party a power here in British Columbia, it's an opportunity, right? To be able to um represent come up with solutions that are tangible and and be able to be immediately relevant, right? Uh and not be afraid to work with us, right? You know, and and lean into our relationship and uh and recognize the importance of our relationship with the government as well. And uh it's hard to go wrong if you start and end with a recognition that working people are the engine of the economy and the heart of our all of our communities and all that sort of falls within that as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think too though, just building on that, we're seeing, you know, the BC conservative leadership race, that the conservative movement's also seeing BC as having huge potential for building their movement. We saw, you know, national, I think it was a national post article this week, all of that sort of focus we're seeing. So I think, you know, BC workers are gonna be pretty cross-pressured from parties telling them who to vote for and who's gonna benefit them. And again, back to like just going to the to fill gas in the car, right? So I think it's it's uh gonna be a lot of work both on a rebuild, but also talking to workers right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. And you know, I mean, we talk specifically about that, right? It is important to know what's going on, what the parties are actually doing, right? Just uh last week on the heels of the building trades convention while we were all over in Victoria and all the construction building trade workers are all, you know, over there. They're lobbying government. The steel workers were also lobbying government that same week, and the firefighters were also lobbying government. It was a very busy week in Victoria, as you can imagine. Literally the Thursday of that week, the Conservative Party put legislation together, as you heard, about getting rid of PLAs and CBAs. Like now they're onto this.
SPEAKER_01It's a bit of a gift. Yeah. Now they're onto this in Manitoba, too, I see.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's just showing who you really are, yeah. Right? Yeah. And you know, when people show us who they are, we should believe them. Uh and that does, you know, you're trying to break away some of the core fundamental values of working people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think just just to just to backtrack, and if people are super interested in this, they we should go back and see the the interview we did a couple of weeks three, four, five weeks ago with with Brynn. Um but the essence of this is that unions uh the trades have negotiated agreements that have community benefits and education to to to to create the skilled workforce that we need so we can do these jobs domestically with with workers that are here in this country. Uh and those were built up over time. And and here the conservatives are like, no, this is this is big unions and and and and regulation.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Kind of a wild thing to do because uh I as an Ontarian, I see that the the the building trades were kind of the the opening door or or the door that they the conservatives opened first um around the skill trade agenda. Uh and then you would have thought the conservative movement would have understood that actually that's just a smart thing to do. Um and it's good politics. Yeah. Uh another flush of the thing.
SPEAKER_03Well, they showed workers who they really are, right? And who they actually stand behind and it's not working people, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or I think I just you know, and I think we've we're expanding on our last question for a second, but I think also the um what we talked about with Brynn too was just I think the realization that if skilled trades hadn't been eroded under the BC Liberal government, that we actually would be in a better spot right now for these major projects, for the infrastructure build, for the economic resilience. So, you know, politicizing skilled trades has been is now demonstrated as a challenge in what we're trying to accomplish right now as a country. So I think there's that disconnect in that politicization of of the union agreements when it actually deteriorates our ability to build to the scale we need to be at right now.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Well, Suzanne, thank you so much. I coming back to the top, you are you got a lot on the go. Uh many, many hats. Um, you can now say that you have a hat of being on left, east to west podcasts, and you're welcome to come back in. Um you want.
SPEAKER_03I'm happy to be here. Friend of the show.
SPEAKER_01Friend of the show, yes. So thanks very much for making time for us. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to uh checking out your next episodes. It's in my it's in my loop of podcasts, and I encourage anyone else out there listening to this one to make sure they that they're in their you're in their podcast list. Well, thanks so much.
SPEAKER_01And we'll see you at convention, I guess.
SPEAKER_03You're welcome. See you in my own. You will. You well.
SPEAKER_01All right, take care.
SPEAKER_03All right, see you later.
SPEAKER_01All right, so great interview. Interesting comments from Suzanne. So she's been um she has been really carrying a lot of load uh in the BC Labor and Party movement for quite a while, eh, Nikki? Um and uh from Prince George. So uh what's the kind I I'm I mean, I've never been to Prince George. I know uh uh Prince George is kind of a forestry town, um a little bit off on the side. So um that that's a key part of the province as well, is it not, for the NDP to maintain uh representation in those kind of areas? Yeah, and she she'll understand that kind of voter.
SPEAKER_02She does, yeah. And she's been down in the in for her new current role, or not her new role anymore, the BC Federation Laver. She's she's lower mainland based now. But yeah, she was in Prince George. In 2013, she actually ran for the NDP in Prince George. So against now former BC conservative leader John Restad. So real battle there on like what those issues are and and a lot of communities that are very resource-based and understanding. I think I think it does really help to have someone sitting, though, at the the table for the table officers for both the federal and provincial NDP who does think about what voters in some of these areas in the province because they do mirror in other provinces. Sure.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you United States they often talk about how you know how's it gonna play in Peoria, but you know, you could ask the question, how's it gonna play in Prince Albert or Prince George or uh Kitchener?
SPEAKER_02And there are seats we have held at different points. Absolutely. Absolutely. I say they probably could be battlegrounds again.
SPEAKER_01So they are battlegrounds for the NDP uh when they're at a good tide and when they are going to make gains. When they're gonna make gains. And uh I know in pr you know, I used to live in Regina and uh Prince Albert is key. Uh Moose Shaw and Prince Albert are key. You can win all the seats in Saskatoon, you can win all the seats in Regina, but if you're not taking some of those, you're not government and the bad guys are in. So you've got to understand that. Although, you know, how does it play in in Prince George? Or PG, I'm I'm heard I've heard that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Well, and too, and I think if you look at the current government, there's a lot of the BC conservatives hold those seats right now. So you do get that sway right on on voices from the Carsons twins. So yeah, it was a great interview. Lots going on. Uh she couldn't be busier, and I'm sure we missed some things, but uh it's a busy time for busy labor leaders. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, she'll be back on another time, I'm sure. I'm sure okay, so uh let's take a break and we'll be right back with Love It or Heave It. Before we wrap up, we're at that part of the show we call Love It or Heave It about something we love and want to keep or something we'd like to heave and forever forget. What do you got, Nikki?
SPEAKER_02Well, there's a new documentary on Netflix. Uh people might have seen it already because it's been a hot topic around the water cooler. It's called Inside the Manosphere. Uh, and I think it's it's coming up everywhere. I think it's most of my Instagram feed right now is memes about it, which is, I think, what the part I'm loving is the fact that there's it's this documentary from Louis Thoreau has like heightened the conversation about something we've talked about on the show, which is the manosphere. Um, we talked about it in the context of anti-feminist ideology being raised as a national security risk in Canada. So, what I'm actually really enjoying about this is just to see the mainstreaming of knowledge, it's starting point about the manosphere. So I think, you know, there's a lot of debate right now about whether it goes far enough, if it really digs into some of the influencers that are within the documentary. But I actually think it's just starting a new wave of conversation, which is the part I'm really keen on, but also a wave of conversation about why we are seeing this phenomenon of the manosphere, which has, you know, a lot of trends into the far right as well. But there's a lot that happens here, and you you start to see it in the in the documentary. So, you know, good on Netflix for showing this about how economic frustration is emerging, and rightfully so in many ways for young men in particular, I think. But what's happening is it's getting redirected by these influencers into gender blame instead of that ability to have some structural analysis about the real real challenges that we have globally, which are impacting people's lives. So, you know, being able, I think, to have something on Netflix that starts to dig into how we are seeing this economic displacement, how, you know, young men are really struggling with job insecurity, with not understanding some of the costs of living that they're now experiencing, like, you know, we've talked about even on this show, things that they might have traditionally thought as is a pathway that previous generations had to stability, and but sure real pressures from global wealth inequalities as well. So, you know, love the part where people are talking about the manosphere, hopefully get to the part where we see some, you know, policy change and real conversation about what these what is happening here and why uh and again you see in in the documentary itself this sort of fandom around these influencers who are driving such a real misdirection here, I think, about where some of this injustice is is occurring for younger generations.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it does feel a little bit like the worm is turned on this one to me. But I I guess what what uh and maybe this is my specific viewpoint is what really disturbs me about what I see from the manosphere, um, in addition to the economic misdirection you talk about, is is the focus on um the most two-dimensional and comparable things about being a man. Like no depth, no depth about what is it to be a good man or a good person. And so it ends up being kind of like this idea of, you know, the uh it's like subjugation to a form um that is uh you know, it's trying to tell you you gotta be like this. Um but it's all very, very uh two-dimensional. Um and then it tries to pass itself off as self-help, but actually it it's really damaging to men. It is to be told that, you know, it it it's it's it's not about how you know what kind of person you are. Um it's about these measurable, comparable, and you're never good enough. That's that seems to me the feel. Um you can see that.
SPEAKER_02And I think you know, some of the criticism is it's it's not really talking enough enough about the impact on women, but I do I agree with you that showing how it's driving the narrative about men and and you know where they should be in terms of maybe very unattainable standards for them increases that level of anger and frustration when you can't reach them. So dangerous all around, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I guess it's it you know, it might be fair to say and probably important to say that women in in a lot of have dealt with the two-dimensional issue uh forever. Yes. Um but now it's about men's look and looks maxing and all kinds of crazy stuff. Where it's like, wait a minute, are we we're just gonna adopt the same uh or are we gonna we're gonna decide like we're gonna fall into the same trap or we're gonna decide that we're free to choose our own i i identities and our uh our own ideas.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And hopefully with a little bit less of the anti-feminist rhetoric and the underfaming. That would be nice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah well to me, Nikki, it seems like if you're if you're going down that path of of of like it being a good person, um you're you're not gonna be an anti-feminist anti-woman. I mean it just it just follows. Anyway. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you, what are you loving or heaving this week, Tom, with lots going on in the world?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I am heaving the price at the pump. Uh the war Trump and Netanyahu, who's launched, have launched, uh, is destroying refineries in Iran, Saudi, Kiwait, Qatar, and maybe Bahrain. And that we are told is why the price of fuel has gone up 30% from $1.31 a liter about uh to about one seventy, one seventy-one here in Toronto anyway. But the thing is, only about two or three percent of what we buy, what Canadians buy at the gas station comes from any of the Gulf states whose refineries are being bombed or ships are being blocked. About 75 to 80 percent of our fuel comes from refineries here in Canada. Most of our imported oil comes from the United States. Like overwhelmingly, of that quarter that comes from somewhere else, it comes from the United States. Another chunk comes from Nigeria. There's no bombings of any refineries in those places. Those refiners' costs didn't change. But your costs did. When you fill up your 80-liter tank and it costs $135 this week rather than $105 last month, who got the thirty dollars off you? Stock market indexes have been plunging because of this war. But not all stocks. Stock prices last week of companies like Canadian Natural Resources, Enbridge, Sinnovis Energy, and Sinoco are all well up even in this stock market meltdown. That tells you who's getting your 30 bucks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. My teensy tiny car was very expensive to fill today. So someone's getting my 30 bucks for sure. But you know, I think too, this goes back into public anger. And I think even if we tie into the manosphere, like it is that who is the public anger about about these things, right? And who's actually has their hand on the decision making, right? Like it is the, I think so, hopefully getting into some tipping points about people seeing where these problems are actually stemming from, and they're not what we're generally told by, you know, a Trump or or a manosphere. Um, so yeah, I think this is gonna be a pain point for a lot of people and it's gonna push back onto politicians. Well um, but you know, where are the decisions being made?
SPEAKER_01We we we saw uh uh there was a news story on Friday um from routers, I think it was, and uh it it was that now the the the bond market is expecting 75 points of uh interest rate hikes before this year. Um the Bank of Canada didn't do anything last week. Yeah uh but now we're looking at probably three uh increases of twenty-five points, and that that basically happened overnight when people realized how disastrous, economically disastrous this war has been uh and the kind of impact it's gonna have on jobs and economy, and and you know what, if you throw interest rate increases on top of it, it's just gonna make it worse. So um, you know, war is hell, friends.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's happening fast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. All right. Well, that's very, very why are you gonna be able to do that?
SPEAKER_02Depressing end to our show.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, that is the end of our show. We'll be back uh next Monday um with our special uh NTP convention edition. Uh more Left East to West. Take care.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for joining Left East to West with hosts Nikki Hill and Tom Parker. We love to hear your comments, ratings, follows, and shares. It helps people find us. To become a Left East to West community member and to help us reach even more Canadians. Subscribe using the link in the show notes. You can watch us on YouTube or listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Just search for Left East to West and subscribe. I'm Doug Hamilton signing off for Left East to West. We'll see you next week.
