Regional strength in a national vision

Josh Bizjak, Douglas Caldwell Layton Foundation executive director, talks with Left East to West about his organization’s movement-building work, the varying themes and challenges in different regions of the country -- and trying to build a national story from them.

A major effort of the DCLF is their series of annual speaker and social events in eight cities across the country. Their region-focused events bring together the broad social democratic movements to reflect on the way forward. Josh discusses the art of pulling together Canada's varied regional social democratic movements  into a united Canadian vision.

PLUS: Nikki gives some insight on how BC’s new gig economy laws and some solid union organizing work could set new labour standards across Canada. Tom explores how the tipping point strategy, which degrades government support on core issues over time, has made the Doug Ford PC government vulnerable.

Transcript

Welcome!

Tom Parkin 0:24

Welcome to Left East to West with me, Tom Parkin.

Nikki Hill 0:28

And me, Nikki Hill. We're back with another great show this week, which won't include breaking Alberta and Canadian laws by giving your personal data as listeners to the Alberta Separatist campaign.

Tom Parkin 0:39

Yeah, that's a pretty amazing story. There was a video obtained by the Alberta NDP showing Daniel Smith's party president, Hawkins executive director, at a meeting where separatist campaign workers, like people who are going out for canvassing, are being trained using illegally shared election data. It's just more evidence that UCP is an architect, not an enabler of this separatist movement. So I thought that was pretty amazing.

Nikki Hill 1:04

Yeah, I thought Jason Kenney caught in that. All kinds of activity around it. Um, also coming on top of another CDC news report last week that websites and social media accounts are being run through Russia and MAGA promoting Alberta separatism. So lots of layers here we continue to monitor and talk about. Uh but we have something more close to home in Canada. We have a special guest with us today, Josh Bizak, who's the executive director of the Douglas Caldwell Leighton Foundation, who has a lot to say about the themes that bring Canada together. And we're going to talk to him in our feature interview. But first, we're going to start with this week, Below the Fold, taking a look at a couple of important stories that didn't make national headlines.

Victoria Uber drivers get first union contract

Tom Parkin 1:58

Okay, Nikki, we had some big news in the labor movement from BC recently. Uh Victoria Uber drivers ratifying their first collective agreement. Tell us about that.

Nikki Hill 2:10

Yeah, I mean, we don't always see first collective agreements making any news. This one actually at some point might make a little bit of global news, though, because of the scale and the precedent. So this is one where we're also seeing where workers in what we might call non-traditional industries can see the benefit of unionization. So breaking it down, we've got Uber drivers in Victoria, DC becoming the first in Canada to get a collective agreement, which is a milestone because they were also first to unionize. At the end of April, they ratified their first contract, the first contract for any app-based drivers in Canada. And not just by a slim margin, 99% of the members voting in favor, which is, you know, sort of stats that many unions shout out to them. UFCW 1518 president Patrick Johnson and all the work of his team, the local organizers. And but of course, 99% means those big shout out to those union members who who voted and clearly with a lot of conviction here about what they're entering into after a while. So it's actually the global first for Uber drivers. And therefore, you know, we can see where there's some threads here for other workers and other app-based workers for sure. Didn't come overnight. Nothing in union organizing ever does, nothing in organizing ever does. And it's building out. So here we are in 2026. It was 2022 when Uber Canada and UFCW Canada uh entered into a national framework, they called it. So that gave drivers and delivery workers the free union representation. So if they were having issues around their workplace on being uh deactivated from their accounts or any other disputes with their employer with Uber, they had that representation agreement that came into place between Uber and UOCW. And I think, you know, in fairness, all parties have to come to the table in a national framework like that. So seeing, you know, a large global organization do that work with the labor movement is really important to recognize as well. A couple of things here that make this unique to why BC was the first jurisdiction where we're seeing this happen comes down to a couple of key policies, some we've touched on here from the current provincial government. So one single step certification, again, something we've had some chats about and why that's different in BC and what it's allowing. So that lets a union to be certified when they've at least got 55% of workers signing union cards. And that's brought in in the last few years. And then the other policy that is um significant here is BC legislation that came in in 2024. But it's actually called workers' rights in the gig economy. It's Bill 148. And so that introduced stronger fairness measures and basic protections for at base ride hail and delivery workers. So, you know, one of those BC policies that now we see how it's playing out. And again, might have some global precedent here that we see in the future. Um, and I think, you know, we we would be remiss in saying that that single-step certification isn't just helping the ride-based app drivers here. It's also been credited and opening some doors for other massive unionization, like the NBC, you've had Unifor working uh with Amazon workers and their first collective agreement as well. So I think, you know, tying in the policies and then and tying in the work of those unions. I think really important here, Barry Sorter, he's the national president of USCW Canada, he noted in the framing here as this uh this historic vote came down. Of course, you know, things that we don't necessarily think about all the time is is that precedent helped other governments look at what BC has done here to protect the at-base workers, not just drivers, but at-base workers who are workers who you know deserve protection like any other workers. Some cool things in this uh this agreement, which shows I think how different they are. One, you know, assigning bonus if you're an eligible driver, but then also quarterly bonuses for trips completed and cancellation rates. They've got some language that you wouldn't need in other workplaces. So annual bumps when there's wait time fees, cancellation fees, or you're going out of region on mileage. And then you're also seeing a little bit more here for those drivers who are going to a higher end of rides per year and how much they would benefit. But I think also something cool that's a wellness fund uh worth up to $500 a year. So not a ton, but still a start here for sick time health costs like dental envision that's also funded by Uber, 10 cents from every ride. So I think you see here where partnership with the company and the unions is changing some of these conditions for workers. Uh, and the other thing I think is that Uber's been proactive in saying that the agreement's not going to lead to higher ride prices for customers in Victoria. So they're sort of talking like this is a key test to see if the business model, because it really is, again, starting with that national framework and going to an agreement, could actually work long term. So interesting one here to watch as we think about labor policy across the country and and and across the world. I think um before we wrap up on our on this segment, I think we can't talk about this organizing achievement really without also taking a pause to honor Kim Novak, who is the was the president of UFCW 1518. We lost her far too young on May 5th, 2024. Uh, and she was the president when this organizing drive began, brought a lot of passion to it, and uh and sadly passed away suddenly at just 39 years of age, living a young family, and I think a labor movement, and and certainly those of us that knew her personally, very shaped by her passion, her courage and commitment, inspired to do things like this, which make the world a better place for other workers and other people. So I think you know, we all owe Kim Novak a deep gratitude, um, a deep debt of gratitude for really believing in this fight, seeing the vision of what was possible for workers. She also played a huge role in defending workers during the pandemic, who uh those workers being at grocery stores and retail, really different type of front lines. And so we uh we thanked Kim for her legacy. It's so enduring and proud and raise a toast of gratitude to her.

Tom Parkin 8:32

Yeah, I I never met Kim. I certainly heard about her and I knew of her. Um but what I knew of her was that uh she seemed to be an effective leader because she would really bring people together. And and it also, you know, this this as you were talking, it also makes sense this breakthrough would happen in BC because uh there can't be any doubt that BC is Canada's leader in cutting the red tape that politicians try and wrap around unions to stop them from being able to bring people together. So big labor breakthrough in British Columbia, and um I I expect that will help workers in other provinces. That this this momentum will migrate to other provinces. Some people will say what they got in BC, we want to get here in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Alberta, Quebec, etc. Yeah. Um, and that's the way this country has moved forward, I it seems to me, very often.

Nikki Hill 9:22

Yeah, it makes it above the fold still. But yeah, it's it's a great step forward. So congrats to you, Scully 15, 18. Not just because I'm a member of that union for in their different creative ways in their professional division, but because this is really a great progress for them. And and shout out to organizers who never get enough credit on these things, too. Yeah. Um, so we're flipping from BC over to Ontario. And even out here in BC, we have heard the headline news about Doug Ford trying to buy a $30 million private plane and then some tumbling support. But Tom,

The strategy that moved Doug Ford to the tipping point

Nikki Hill 9:58

you have the below-the-fold story on some of the political nuance that led to this point.

Tom Parkin 10:04

Yeah, yeah. I I heard a CBC news uh panel this week, last week, um, where a reporter in the panel claimed that the drop in Ford's popularity was all about him trying to buy buy this private shit. And I just thought, like, holy hell, like if this is the depth of political analysis in Ontario, no wonder we haven't Doug Ford. Like, it was just so thin. This story has been in the making for months, probably about like since last fall. Uh, that is the below the fold story. Uh, and that's what the data shows too. This this tumbling um it it started way back in in in the fall, but it's just really accelerated lately, and because this premiere has come to a tipping point. Or I think, and this is what I'm gonna try and explain more accurately, the tipping point has come closer to him. So for a long time, the Ford government had terrible approval scores on almost everything healthcare terrible, housing terrible, environment terrible, poverty terrible, um, education terrible. Um, we had an election in the winter of 2025, and despite all these terrible scores, Ford won again.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 11:10

Um and you'll remember after that there was a lot of disappointment disappointment with the Ontario NDP leader, Mart Stiles. Uh, it was like a lot very hard for a lot of us to understand how anybody, uh the official opposition leader, could be beaten by such a lousy, lousy person. Um, so it, you know, there was some soul searching. And in the end of August, uh whatever that is now, um nine months ago, I suppose, there was a really key caucus meeting, pivotal. Uh they they they recognized that they were attacking Ford on the issues NDP voters care about, um but that was not working. Uh the the insight was it was never gonna work because Ford voters don't care about those issues. Yeah they don't care, so it's not gonna move them. And as long as the PCs were at 45% and you didn't move anybody, they were gonna win. And the NDP was gonna lose and this was gonna go on. So yeah, Ford had terrible approvals on most issues, but on economy and crime, those were the only kind of two um his approvals were okay. So these were the legs that were really holding up his support. That was the analysis. That was kind of the the insight. Um so those were the issues that Ford voters cared about. So if strategically the NDP could kick those legs of support out from under Ford, then those voters would fall. They would fall free. So the caucus decided, okay, we're gonna kind of switch here uh and we're gonna focus on some economic issues and especially jobs and affordability. Yeah, just after the caucus meeting in September, the ONDP caucus, uh the ONDP rather had a convention. Uh it was kind of a disorganized affair, it left a lot of people grumpy. Marit did not get a strong leadership review vote. I think it was 68%. Um, and on the last day of the convention, she said things are gonna change. Um so over the next few weeks, she let go all of her key staff. Uh a fourth had already, who had been the campaign director, had already left. So she literally all of her top staffers were gone. It was a total reset. Uh when the legislature came back a couple weeks after that, um, the caucus actually did focus on jobs. So where before they were swinging at what they wanted to punch at, uh they now tried to hit what made PC voters unhappy and uneasy. The NDP focused on question period, on job numbers, on plant closures, on youth unemployment. They branded uh Ford a jobs disaster, they pushed the message that they're dig in their digital comms, they'd link to the issue so that you know they talk about the housing crisis, but they say this is also a crisis for workers who want to build homes and are unemployed. Um in seven years of premier, Doug Ford had never faced a line of attack that was actually focused on his base of support. Uh and just kind of parenthetically, like during this whole period, the liberals are leaderless. Uh they're having an identity problem. Are they a right-wing party? Are they gonna be a progressive party? So this time they're really responding, they're not leading. Um so it really fell to the NDP like if something's gonna happen, they're gonna be the ones that did it. And in fairness, sometimes they wobbled, right? Sometimes they wobbled, responding to the daily progressive conservative clown show rather than staying on target. I saw that, but mostly they managed to get back correct on course uh and you know, position job loss and high costs as the price of these scandals. So link in these ideas. And and so now, you know, after doing this for a few months uh and and and making the PC base more uneasy about jobs, about affordability, the NDP's attacking him every day on this stuff, you know, when he started to step on rakes, they started to bang him in the face. Um and and and now when the NDP uh does when when this happens, the NDP will connect these things. Um he he he's he's doing this dumb thing, um, and we all know that, like buying a jet. Um but that's that's because he's not doing the right thing, which is creating jobs and keeping life affordable. So again, keeping the focus. So yeah, there comes a tipping point. Uh and and sure, the jet might have been it, but it is a mistake to think a tipping point is a static thing. The job of an opposition isn't just to tip a government over when it makes some big mistake, it's to uh daily move that tipping point closer to the government and uh make that push easier. So I think the the below the fold story is that strategy matters.

unknown 15:48

Uh-huh.

Tom Parkin 15:49

Uh to take down a government, you need to degrade their strength. Uh it takes time and persistence.

unknown 15:54

Uh-huh.

Tom Parkin 15:54

Uh it takes some luck. Um, and I think the ONDP needs to recognize that to themselves, that when they got off their soapboxes and made some tough choices, it did pay off. It did pay off. Okay, final thought, Nikki.

Nikki Hill 16:08

Well, I mean, there's there's always pivots here, right? Like you can't, you as you say, you can't you can't be static. And I think we all sort of it's the lessons learned. We look at below the border and go, how does Trump still have this strong base of support when the rest of the world is, you know, watching and and hoping he's gone.

Tom Parkin 16:25

But if you're only so if you're only trying to mobilize your existing base of voters, yeah, then um you know that's a problem. Not that you shouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Totally.

Tom Parkin 16:33

But you can't only do that. So just a just a final thought on this one, Nikki. And this is the problem that they're in now. So there's some success. Um polls show that the NDP is up and the PCs are falling. But uh even though the Ontario Liberals are in disarray and fighting, it is the Ontario Liberals who are polling second.

unknown 16:51

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 16:52

So the ONDP pick kicked out the legs of uh PC support, but they are gonna have to deal with the next problem. Um that while yes, they are the official opposition, in the minds of Ontario voters they are not. The provincial liberals are in this province the default answer to I don't want to vote conservative. That is just you know, you can call it unfair, whatever, it's reality. So the challenge now is to find the strategic path to a change in that default thinking. And again, be disciplined, stick on it, so that when this government falls, it falls to them.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Yeah.

Nikki Hill 17:31

Yeah. Well, and also I think um, you know, we'll talk a little bit more in our show too with our guest about uh the concept of winning as social democrats as well. So that's the relevant points here.

Tom Parkin 17:43

Sometimes I think those things go together because we've talked a lot about economic development, we talk a lot about jobs here, we talk a lot about affordability. Uh I don't think that uh it's only people uh in social dem some social democratic voters who care about that. Uh and if we can provide better solutions, you know, then I think we're we're we're doing a good job for ourselves.

Nikki Hill 18:04

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with our special guest.

Josh Bizjak: regional power in a national vision

Nikki Hill 18:19

Welcome to Left, East to West, Josh B Jack. Thanks for joining us. We were just chatting about before the show about a recent kid inflicted injury. How's your mouth doing?

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Thank you very much for asking, Nikki. It's a pretty funny story. Um I I used to be a competitive uh athlete when I was younger. So I had a um a partial, like a uh bridge with a couple fake teeth on it. My little boy, 15 months old, getting curious with his finger, put his finger in my mouth and uh cracked the denture plate. And before I could get to the dentist to have it re-glued or fixed, whatever they're going to do, he went in again and actually ripped it out. And so my dentist has decided that it would be best if I just wait a little bit longer and and finally get an implant. So that's what we're gonna do. Thanks for broaching the subject though, because I don't want your audience members a little bit awkward around what's up with Josh. Yeah, well.

Nikki Hill 19:17

If you need dental implant tips, I just finished too. So that's all your hot tips over here.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

For for anybody who's who knows Wesley from my social media, he's an adorable little guy.

Nikki Hill 19:27

He's very adorable.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

And he thought it was all really quite funny. Really funny, yeah.

Nikki Hill 19:31

Adorable and very stylish, I would add.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

He's a cute kid. Cute kid.

Nikki Hill 19:36

Okay, well, uh, hopefully we are injury free the rest of the show, not to not to jinx us. Uh let's dive into some questions. So, Josh, you are the executive director of the Douglas Caldwell Leighton Foundation, which in some ways is a new charity, although it's actually been around for many, many years. But you are a new full-time executive director. You've got a team that you've pulled together, you've reinvigorated the organization, and you found a really important and unique role for it. Tell us a bit more about the foundation.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

You know, it it's interesting how you frame that because in many ways it is new. Uh, the the foundation was uh established over 50 years ago by Tommy Dunlas. Uh, as he exited from politics, he he really envisioned uh things becoming more difficult in the future, um, especially for the progressive movement to continue with the momentum. And so uh I guess it was 2017 I was approached by the then president David Mackenzie. At the time I was the director of development at the Broadbent Institute, and they were interested to know whether or not we would be willing uh to apply for a grant uh at DCF. And I thought, oh yeah, of course you would. Sounds great, but why would you uh want to be giving us this grant? And he went on to explain that after Tommy Douglas passed away, it was handed off to his daughter, Shirley Douglas, but her time between New York, LA, and Toronto, things are very busy. And by the time you get from 1986 when Tommy passed away, into 2017, um, things had really slowed down and kind of ground to a halt in terms of the activity of the organization. And there was a thought that the the board might just close the foundation. Um so when I said to David, hold that thought. Um I went back to my very good friend Rick Smith, who was executive director of the Broadburn Institute at the time, and I explained the situation. Uh unbeknownst to to David Mackenzie or anyone else, uh the Broadburn Institute, um, our board of directors, myself, Rick, Ed, um had tried three times unsuccessfully. To establish a foundation that would mirror the broadband institute. So the CRA had ejected, rejected our application.

Nikki Hill 22:08

Very interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah. Even though the Fraser Institute does something similar, for whatever reason, the CRA wouldn't let us do it. There are many reasons why a foundation, this charity, is important and why it needed to be maintained. So from that point forward, I started working with the DCF, at David McKenzie and the board, to sort of move things forward. At the time, uh Carl Boulanger took over as uh president uh with a clear vision to re-establish this organization. And so it wasn't until after the pandemic in 2021 that the newly established board of directors decided, with some of the original uh board members from 2017, decided that they wanted me to come on board to lead the revitalization and the rejuvenization project. The reason it's important is this in the original letters patent from 1971, it states clearly that the mandate of this charity is to educate people about government, politics, and civic responsibility, and to do that through research, publication, special events, lectures, seminars, and training. You are not gonna get that charitable mandate from the CRA today.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

We are literally the last charity in the country that has a narrative attached to it that is essentially government political focused. And uh so we're able to uh work within that mandate to provide a lot of education uh to the broader public about the benefits of our democracy, and in particular about social democratic governments, politicians, and um you know, uh really progressive ideas.

Tom Parkin 24:05

So you've got these central roles of provoking discussions and convening conversations, that's from your mission statement. Um, but it's about social democracy. Uh is is it fair to say that the main way the DCLF does this is through that lecture series that you do in different cities? Um I I I've been to the the one here in Toronto with the David Lewis lecture that you do annually, which has always got an interesting lecture, and also really has this kind of, I don't know, enjoyable social component. So you're bringing out a movement, you're bringing some intellectual discussion to it. Uh, what's how does this lecture series work?

SPEAKER_02 24:41

There's a lot of good stuff around the lecture series. It was actually an idea uh that came out of a conversation with uh the late Bill Blakey. Uh when Bill found out that I was coming in uh to lead the organization, he got on the phone with me rather quickly about a lecture that used to happen, this the Stanley Knowles Woodsworth lecture at the University of Winnipeg. And he said, Josh, this is something you should look at. I'm sure that they would want to do something with the foundation. And so working with Bill, uh, we were able to establish our very first lecture event at the University of Winnipeg in 2022. Well, wouldn't you know that after that lecture, other universities started reaching out to us saying, hey, uh, we would maybe want to do something with you as well.

Tom Parkin 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

And by the next year, we had established a relationship with the University of Victoria. Um, at the time, um, we were in discussion with Alexa McDonough's family. And so we ended up establishing an event at uh Mount St. Vincent University in Halifax under her name. Then at the University of Toronto under David Lewis, uh, in memory of David and his incredible leadership. And it's just grown from there. So from that one event in 2022, we are now up to eight lecture events in eight different cities in seven different provinces, Toronto and Ottawa being the one that shares sort of the same province. Um what's uh really remarkable though is that when we get it when you get a chance to get out and into a community and connect with people and discuss the issues that are important to them, whether they be national, um national scope, uh, federal jurisdiction, provincial jurisdiction, even municipal content, um, there's a level of appreciation there that is brand new and is exciting. And and it connects people to a foundation that otherwise would just be sitting in Ottawa. And I don't think that that's how you uh grow an organization. You need to be able to listen to people, meet them where they are. And so it was important to me that we got on the road. And the lecture series allows us to do that. We were just in Regina for the inaugural Tommy Douglas uh lecture. Excellent at the University of Regina. Beautiful venue in Dark Hall. Um, 496 people, RSVP, be there in person. We have a beautiful reception after it, cocktail reception. It's free for everybody to attend, thanks to all of our union sponsors who help out with not only the lecture series tour, but also the local unions who decide to chip in at a local level for the specific event. Uh, but thanks to their generosity, we're able to provide um um a wonderful platform for our speakers to talk.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Um, we're able to live stream it across the country, and we're able to excite a big audience. You have a mix of students, faculty, members, and supporters of the foundation, but then you also have the broader public. I mean, for that event, we were promoted um by the tourism board as a event that was happening in the city.

Tom Parkin 28:00

So so just Josh, you got Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Victoria, Regina, Victoria, and what am I missing?

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Edmonton. Edmonton. I didn't know. In Edmonton, it will be the Knotley family lecture. So nice University of Alberta in Edmonton.

Nikki Hill 28:23

Yeah, I think sitting EONBC, it often feels like some of our organizations are just very Ottawa-Ontario centric. So I love that you're bringing these lectures to where people are at and where social democrats are at.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

So it makes us feel a lot more connected out here in the West, even though you're based in the and we get people reaching out saying, Yeah, when is your event coming to town?

SPEAKER_04 28:45

So it's a good sign.

Tom Parkin 28:48

I like the events because it's a it's a mix of people that you don't always see in the same room, people in the labor movement, people who are maybe on riding association executives, but maybe they're not. Maybe they're new Democrats who used to be or have other roles in the party, plus people who are part of the university, plus students who are at the university. So it's just kind of a mash up of um uh uh of of uh um social groups that I think is really healthy.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Yeah. You know what? I like engagement, but I also like things that happen in real life. The foundation also has grown exponentially as a result of this tour. So our exposure is greater, people are interested in what we're doing. Um there are there are people within academia who are paying attention to kinds of things we're talking about. Politicians, whenever we're in a city, we always make sure to let people know at the various legislatures that we're going to be in town and they're free to attend. Um, but then you've got that student element to be on the road talking about the benefits of social democracy, social democratic governments, uh, policies that are uh inclusive and that make the lives better for the majority of us. That's an opportunity I don't take for granted.

Nikki Hill 30:02

That's great. Yeah, I think it's huge. It's that connection in other people, which we don't necessarily we may have many events these days, but not always ones that help connect us. So I think you know, there's probably also a real benefit here, and we've been talking a lot on on the show about regional histories and variations of social democracy in Canada. So sort of leaning into what you get to see in those regional histories and regional needs, which has been, you know, where there's been successes and provincial electoral successes for New Democrats. What in the series are you seeing as some of those regional social democratic flavors that look differently depending where you are?

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah. The the big one is the economy and employment.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Regionally in this country, um that that issue is something that um can almost divide people. Um there are different needs in different places. The word infrastructure means different things to different people. Um you have uh places like Ontario, which is huge. And a city like Toronto is an ecosystem all itself, it's its own region, really. Uh the GA, it has very different needs um than than the majority of Canadians living in other places. And so it's quite unique. Uh, but I would say the economic concerns where where job growth needs to happen, um that is probably the most different from place to place to place. And um different industries or specific jobs, Josh? Um well, let's say I would say approaches is probably the better way to look at it. You know, people think of Ottawa as a government town. You know, the suburbs of Toronto used to be manufacturing, um, and that's all gone. I I think that there is a um a fear that in many cities in Canada, um the the foundational jobs, the foundational economic drivers uh may not be there in the future. Uh and there are different ways that governments are are dealing with that. But that seems to be the one that's very stark in terms of its truth. Uh wherever you go, it's the same issue, but it's different because the jobs are different or or that sector, that primary sector is different. Um here in Ottawa, you know, we're we're getting the threats uh, well, we're seeing already uh public sector cuts to the federal government. That issue alone is a big deal. The impacts of AI, we did a lecture in Ottawa called Dose in the Machine on AI. We're gonna follow that up again this year. We have a ministry dedicated to AI, but yet we have no legislation that controls it or regulates it, which is what is going on. And you know, you talk um with uh the president of PIPS, and Sean will tell you, you know, they're not gonna be able to do that. Sorry, just Pipps. Pipps being a government employee, federal government employee union, right? That's right. Yeah, the professional institute of the public service of Canada. And um you know he'll tell you that that they're not prepared and that it it's not even it's not even doable. And yet we're already seeing the federal government make decisions about uh laying off thousands of people. Yeah. It's a huge impact here in Ottawa. Yeah. And you know, um, it's probably one of the places where you see um, you know, the impacts really go uh throughout the entire community when you have those kinds of major cuts, not only here in Ottawa, but also across the river in Gatineau. I I think that's the that's the that's the part that I love. It's when you when you get to be on the ground to learn these things, right?

SPEAKER_04 33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

It's like when you're working with different sectors and you understand their issues. Uh everybody's driving towards the the same goals, but they have different issues, different challenges.

Tom Parkin 34:07

Well, we saw even just last week. I mean, forestry, I guess forestry used to kind of be a big issue in Ottawa, but it's not anymore, maybe like a hundred years ago.

Nikki Hill 34:16

But it's not right now.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

You know, we don't see the annual log drive now, you don't know not anymore.

Tom Parkin 34:23

But that was actually a big piece of Canadian history at one point, floating logs down in Montreal. But British Columbia obviously logging forestry, lumber, sawmills, extremely important.

Nikki Hill 34:32

We've seen BC trying to get Ottawa to remember that there's lumber.

Tom Parkin 34:36

Northern Ontario, um Quebec issue throughout there in New Brunswick. Um but not often high in the national consciousness. And and and something uh it just leads me to this back to the idea you're talking about, and it's something that stuck with me a long time ago when I I heard um Roy Romano speak once, uh, who's in said, he was a Premier of Saskatchewan, and he said something about federalism that really, really kind of has stuck in my head all these years. Each province and each provincial capital was like a pearl. That was that was his analogy. And that the job of the federal leader, a prime minister, party leader, whatever, is to find the common theme and needs that kind of is the string that pulls those pearls together and makes something, you know, a beautiful necklace, right? That's the implicit uh Ed Bradman.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Ed Bradman used to talk about that quite a bit and the importance of it. He he would refer often to uh Trudeau Sr. Um, you know, resenting the fact that that the NDP had support across the country, and yet his was so isolated, right, and not representative of everyone. Uh I think you're 100% right on that. Well, saw me it was Roy Romano, but what do you think about?

Tom Parkin 35:50

I mean, your organization is one that's not just in Ottawa. You're you're kind of a federated yourself and you're connected to provincial parties, to provincial labor movements, to provincial universities. What are the themes and what are the what what do you think uh about this um ability to pull together that that string that unites?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I will say it it's by design and it is not easy work. Yeah. Um it takes um a lot of planning, but then there's the relationships that need to exist. Uh and not just the relationships, but then also a level of trust. And even within these regions, uh within the uh different provinces, uh, you know, you are gonna have uh competing interests. And so we can't we we aren't able to satisfy everybody's needs and wants uh each year. And so we do have to somewhat focus uh uh from event to event on on how we can be helpful in the moment. Uh and you know, we try our best to do that. But that is a core strength of ours, Tom, to be able to get out on the ground across the country every year uh to build those relationships, to bring new relationships to the front, but then reinforce the ones that we already have so that we do have that trust. And it it really is something special when you're able to walk away um from one of these events that we do. It's been a big success. And then for the next couple of weeks, you're getting thank you notes in the mail, in the inbox. You know, it really does mean something to people. We're there, uh, that we're listening, most importantly, that we're listening and that we're trying to be helpful in the way that we can be. And uh, by bringing in expert voices has also been interesting too. So we'll bring experts in from across the country, um, oftentimes paired with people who are local, uh, who are on the ground with those issues. Or maybe it could be an academic researcher, it might be an economist, be a meet uh it could be any number of people who um are uh well informed and uh helpful to the conversation. When I came on board, the organization was quite small. And when I say small, it didn't have an office. Yeah. It didn't it didn't have full-time staff.

Tom Parkin 38:27

I I remember rumors, Josh, that at one point it had $7,000 in a bank account, and that was that was the rumor it was going to be shutter.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Very, very modest. Yeah. And you know, I was taking a huge leap of faith um in in the board, uh in myself, I guess. There I um the amount of trust and faith that Lydia gave me, I guess, is also notable. Yeah. Um but you know, leaving the Broadband Institute, where I had been for a decade, uh, since the very beginning, um I, of course, talked to Ed about the decision before going anywhere, had his blessing. Um I mean, I knew right off the bat that we had to grow our base. The the database had 1,500 contacts. Not all of the emails worked, or even had emails. Uh the phone numbers didn't work. Uh I think we had at the time something like 130 annual donors. You know, we're we're now up over 4,000 annual donors.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

Good work.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

And you know, so I mean, the database went from a very small amount. We're now over 60,000 people in the database who are actively looking at our email content, at our newsletters, at the research projects we have coming up. I mean, any number of things, attending events. Um so that growth is happening, but it wouldn't have happened if I accepted this position and then just sat here in Ottawa and waited for everybody to come.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

That that's no way to act. That's no you you can't i it's disingenuous. And so that isn't what uh I don't believe Tommy and MJ Coldwell would have wanted. I know that's not the style of Jack Layton either. Yeah. And uh, you know, you have to get out and talk to people about the things that they're concerned with where they are. And uh if you do that and you show genuine interest, you can build something.

Nikki Hill 40:30

Um a few weeks ago I saw you had an op-ed in the Hill Times, and it was on the need of uh for the federal NDP to keep the goal of of winning as its North Star. I know it's something that you worry about, you're impassioned about, and you know, some people uh talk about that sort of concept of having power, but at what price as well, when we when we think about the national movement. But you say on its head, you're talking about the real price that's paid by not having power. Can you explain that? Why do you think it's so crucial and which people know?

SPEAKER_02 41:03

The reality is social democracy as a political movement in force is there to be governed for the benefit of everyone. If we want to see the kind of change that can happen in our society, it is not good enough for us to wait around for opportunities for liberals and conservatives to give us a small crack where maybe they leverage us into a corner to get a little piece of what we want. I I'm I'm I'm quite frankly uh frustrated at the idea that people are happy that so think that social democrats should simply be the um the conscience of parliament.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

It's it's not what Tommy wanted. It's not what David Lewis wanted. Um certainly not what Jack strive for. Ed Broadman talked passionately about the need for forming government. Um it it frustrates me to no end to think that it's good enough to hold up a placard and and march down the street. But we need the majority of Canadians to say, I trust that a social democratic government will be good for me, my family, my community. Yeah. We need to establish that trust. We have it provincially. Yeah, in we see British Columbia, we see it in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, in Ontario, we had a great opportunity, and I think that opportunity will arise again shortly. Uh Nova Scotia, not too long ago. But federally there's been a disconnect. So so yeah, that that has to be part of the plan. I understand the the challenge we're in, but let's just put it in perspective here. Donald Trump was elected in November of 2024. He started making threats immediately. By the time he was inaugurated in in late January, the threats were full blown. People were terrified. Well, social democrats need to have good answers to make people feel confident and comfortable that when in government they will have their best interests at heart. And so there's an opportunity here over the next few years, now that Mark Carney has given himself some time to govern as as he would like, um, for um Avi Lewis and the Canadian Social Democratic Party, the NDP, um, to provide an option that Canadians can take seriously. Whether they're liberals, conservatives, new democrats, or Green. Party members, even if the block members in Quebec, uh, or supporters or or past voters, um, there's an opportunity here to be taken advantage of, especially with Mark Carney giving us so much space as he tacks to the right.

SPEAKER_04 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

We can get into that because that's a whole new thing.

Tom Parkin 44:16

Yeah, let's just probe that a bit, Josh, and get and get your thoughts on this. We're certainly one person who's done a lot to unite Canadians has been Donald Trump. Um and Kearney certainly rode to power as the anti-Trump. I don't think there's any argument about that. Masterful job. Uh but now he's launching a so-called sovereign wealth fund to handle the privatization of public assets like ports and airports, maybe Canada Post has talked about that. Um there's budget cuts to transfers and social programs that have been written about. They're very clear in the budget, but not they're not real top line uh information, but they're there. Closing the door on pharmacare. We talked about that in our last show. Um how does that contradict the build can like I understand why people want build Canada. Uh I want that. That's how we defend ourselves from Trump. This doesn't seem like that, though. And I'm wondering if this opens a space um where, you know, going back to that idea of pulling the strings together, that we can pull some strings together within the social democratic movement across the country in the regions of this country, some sort of response of what a national a real national build strong would be like, one that isn't selling our national treasures.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna actually tie the two together. Um so the the last point and this point, because I I will say this. Mark Kearney um is good with numbers on paper. Um economist. He wants to make the numbers work. I don't think he's too concerned with the the the human costs. Um I don't think that's his priority. I really don't. And we've all heard uh pharma care is gonna get wound down, is essentially what's gonna happen. That the health care transfers are are gonna be getting cut. Um the public service is getting cut, the federal public service, there's all sorts of things that are happening uh that I gotta tell you, I don't think Pierre Polyev would ever have gotten away with had he been the prime minister. Well, the liberals would be complaining. Oh, I think the media would just be going bonkers with it. I think the biggest threat was the cuts to the CBC and everybody was on fire about it. Imagine if Pierre Polyev is talking about, you know, cutting health care and cutting pharma care. You know, but they would then you would have marching in the streets. But it it seems that Mark Kearney really is playing on the vulnerabilities of Canadians, the fears of Canadians that we do have all of a sudden within one election, our our greatest friend, ally, and and and trading partner has become a threat. And Canadians are feeling vulnerable and weak. And Kearney, I believe, is exploiting that goodwill and that faith, and that's unfortunate. Now, let's talk about the Sovereign Wealth Fund. And you know, we saw Don Davies do a masterful job in the House of Commons talking about the Norway model. I love the Norway model. I think New Democrats historically have loved that idea. Uh PetroCanada, the the the whole concept of nationalizing our resource sector has always been top of mind. So why don't we take advantage of that opportunity? Why don't we talk not about what Mark Carney is doing, but instead prepare ourselves for the next election where we propose specifically a Norway-esque model that would help ensure that every person who wants to be educated gets to be educated, that every person uh when they're when their working career is done can retire in dignity. Let's make sure that uh no person is hungry or starving, no child is raised in poverty. We can do all these great things. So why don't we do that? Because if we were to propose that to Canadians and say, this is what we're going to do, we're going to do it, um, that would be a huge incentive. But for us could just to complain about it and and point, like Mark Carney's guessmature, he's gonna do what he wants to do. Why don't we think big? Why don't we talk about taking advantage of the resources that we have? We do it responsibly, we do it as safely as we can, um, and uh and we make sure that every Canadian benefits from it. Uh Ed Brodman used to talk about political will, so why don't we demonstrate that we have some? That said, the social good that would come out of such a program, um, I think uh would also just be so so wonderful for the entire country. Uh, we could do a ton of good. And we can also do things extremely extremely well while we're protecting the environment. And um so and the other thing is this if we're not in government, who's there? You've got the liberals or the conservatives, right? So it's it's not social democrats. They're not gonna do the things that we want to do. They're gonna do their their things. They may campaign sometimes and sound like social democrats to win over voters, but then they're gonna do the things that they want to do anyway. What I'm what I what I would love to see is for our party to be focused on governing for the good of the entire country and for future generations. Um, and I think sometimes uh, you know, social democrats need to get out of our own way. And uh, you know, we have to uh understand that uh that in in today's world, uh these these challenges, these fears, these concerns are real. And what people want is a real solution that they believe will help. But if they don't trust, if they don't trust social democrats, uh if they don't have confidence in social democrats, if they don't think we can win, we're we're not gonna win them over. And that's the problem. We need to focus on forming a government in this country and real electoral reform. And uh between between the day, between today and the day that we formed that first government, we have to find a way to win. And that's the point. So we we we can't rely on liberals to do the things that we want to do. We need to rely on ourselves to get those things done. Not everything we we want to do do we do we have to, you know, you know, we have pretty extensive platforms in the past. Uh we can make things comprehensive without making things overly complicated, uh, so that way people are confident and comfortable. And I will say too, um, you know, I think if we started talking about responsible um progressive governments, social democratic governments in this country with big ideas that were for the benefit of everyone, um, and not picking winners and losers, um, we would end up also too with people who uh would be really strong candidates. And we need strong candidates. If we are going to form a government in this country, who's gonna be in the ministry? Who who is the minister of finance for the Social Democratic Party? We should be able to answer that kind of a question. Uh, you know, and the and Canadians should feel comfortable that we're able to do it as well.

Nikki Hill 51:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

I could go off here. I mean, this is Yeah, I know.

Nikki Hill 51:44

I wish we could spend more time digging into it. But good news on folks being able to go to events. The good news, the real good news is so much for joining us and and sharing everything you're doing and that the Douglas Caldwell Leighton Foundation is doing and really how you think the movement's doing and where we can grow. So we wish you folks all the luck and we hope to see you at the all the events. Uh, I again I really appreciate being able to have Western-based events from an auto organization. So great job with that. Um, and we're gonna take a quick break and be right back with Love It or Heave It.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Thanks, Josh. Thank you all very much.

Nikki gives a thumbs to reforms protecting victims of intimate partner violence

Tom Parkin 52:30

Before we wrap up, we've come to that part of the show we call Love It or Heave It about something you love and want to keep or something you'd like to heave and forever forget. What about you for this week, Nikki?

Nikki Hill 52:43

Yeah, I mean, I hesitate to frame anything related to sexual and intimate partner violence as a love, even we get an important policy change here. So I'm gonna go with a with a thumbs up on some progress uh in BC. So a little backstory. First, um, you know, a couple years ago, 2024, BC's Attorney General Nikki Sharma, when when she uh was early in the role, commissioned Dr. Kim Stanton to do a systemic review of how the BC legal system treats victims and survivors of sexual and intimate partner violence because there were so many issues that survivors and victims were having, not just seeking justice, but even being safe. So last year, and uh almost a year ago in June 2025, uh Dr. Stanton delivered that report. And then last week, we've starting to see some policy change from the BC Prosecution Service when they released the the what they're calling the victims of crime policy. So this does report, uh this does respond directly to some of the key findings in the Stanton report. And what it does is set up some updated policies with clear expectations to ensure that victims are gonna get timely and consistent information about their cases, especially when we're talking about things like release conditions or changes that impact their safety. So really critical here. It's also gonna support how victims are uh can navigate the court process. So, including when they're going to be testifying or preparing victim impact statements, which really wasn't reflected in our systems. So reinforcing here that there is a responsibility to treat victims with care and respect as they go through these cases. So, overall, you know, trying to make a shift here is recommended in the report, which is great to see the expertise brought here, putting victims' needs at the center of the legal process. One would think that wouldn't be a big jump, but you know, obviously this has been long overdue, and hopefully other jurisdictions are taking a look as well, because you need to be shifting the burden away from survivors and actually onto the system to make sure that decision making is better informed. But, you know, really, I think primarily here avoiding delays in some cases you're re-traumatizing victims.

Tom is loving some strategic smarts from the Sask NDP

Nikki Hill 54:54

So good news for victims and survivors, but also showing some policy progress here that advocates have been championing for years.

Tom Parkin 55:03

That's that's that's that is good news.

Nikki Hill 55:05

Um, okay, Tom, what are you loving or eating?

Tom Parkin 55:11

Yeah, yeah. What am I loving or eating? I am um I am uh loving the strategy that is apparent behind a couple of moves last week by Carla Beck and the Saskatchewan NDP. Um one was a motion to establish a special committee of MLAs to focus on rising costs, including rising land costs for farmers, for producers, and related to Canada's biggest corporate farm, Monette Mega Farm. Now, probably most of us have not heard of this, but for a yeah, many years now, several years I should say, uh Monot Monot had been aggressively buying up land, pushing up prices, and became over-leveraged, and uh it's now in creditor protection. Um the big backer of Monette was Scotiabank, which fronted it $850 million to go on this um land buying spree. So, you know, Nikki, damn the eastern banks, right? That's a nice dynamic that's not.

Nikki Hill 56:10

I don't know, so what we say out here?

Tom Parkin 56:12

Yeah, well, I don't know. That's what a good thing to say in Regina, I think. Um the Scott Mo the Scott Moore party, of course, voted down the Sask NDP proposal. Um, you know, like he doesn't care about farm issues, right? Um the other was the release of research showing women in Moose Jaw are now waiting an unacceptable average of 10 weeks to get back news on a breast cancer biopsy. These are both important issues, not the culture war slop that we get from conservatives. And I love that. I I love that there's some integrity here. Uh and I love that they are both focused on ridings. The Sask NDP knows it needs to win to defeat Scott Moe. To get from opposition to government, Carla Beck needs all the seats in Regina and Saskatoon, plus the two Northern seats, plus she needs seats in Moose Jaw and Prince Albert. And that is who she is speaking to with these kind of moves. That that is smart politics, it's good politics, it's good policy. And this is the kind of focus I love. Um, and it is why I the most recent poll uh came out last month, showed the SaaS NDP and the SaaS party tied at 45%. And I love that too.

Nikki Hill 57:23

And again, I think we've had some themes here in this show about you know where voters and the public are really focused right now and and on why politicians aren't getting there and what happens when they do. So Yeah, meet them where they're at.

Tom Parkin 57:35

Right? Yeah, know where you gotta win.

Nikki Hill 57:37

Okay, well, that was our show for the week. We're going to be back next Monday with the BC Water Legacy's Corey Tull. And take care until then, Tom.

Tom Parkin 57:48

Okay, have a great week. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Thanks for joining Left East to West with hosts Nikki Hill and Tom Parkin. We'd love to hear your comments, ratings, follows, and shares. It helps people find us. To become a Left East to West community member and to help us reach even more Canadians, subscribe using the link in the show notes. You can watch us on YouTube or lesson wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Just search for Left East to West and subscribe. I'm Doug Hamilton signing off for Left East to West. We'll see you next week.