Carney faces challenges. Can Poilievre or Lewis benefit?

Nikki and Tom celebrate six months of Left East to West with a retrospective on federal politics, federal-provincial relations and shifts in provincial politics across the country.

The overriding federal story is continued Liberal strength. But polls show a drop in Mark Carney’s net approval score. Can Pierre Poilievre or Avi Lewis benefit?

In federal-provincial relationships, alignment between provinces and with federal government seems better. But has it come at the cost of having any climate policy and enforcing the Canada Health Act?

Provincially, many premiers face sagging support. Can they successfully increase perceptions of the risk of change? Can opposition leaders lower voters’ perception of the risk of change? Nikki and Tom look at different strategies for addressing risk perceptions.

Nikki gives some love to properly-done long-term land use planning. Tom heaves pollsters who claim decimal-point accuracy or to know the reasons behind poll changes that may not even exist because they don’t exceed the margin of error.

Transcript

Tom Parkin 0:24

Welcome to Left East to West with me, Tom Parkin.

Nikki Hill 0:27

And me, Nikki Hill. Tom, did you know that as of this episode, we have been doing the podcast for 26 weeks, so exactly half a year. So we feel like it was a good time to take a look at what's happened over all those weeks and months because it has been a flurry in Canadian politics and provincial politics, global politics, and take a look at where we're going next. So we've had a chance to talk with really interesting guests about Canada's international relationships, developing the economy, separatists in Alberta and Quebec, battling high food and fuel prices and affordability, housing, pipelines. We've talked about it all really. We've interviewed leaders from national and provincial politics, labor movement leaders, some really bright policy research and advocates and economists. And we've watched a lot of events unfold, like a very turbulent BC conservative leadership race, which is still having some fallout we're seeing in national politics this week. We covered the Ontario Liberal Party, travails, and its leadership race, and we've focused on something within almost every provincial legislature. I think we just missed PEI and New Brunswick so far, but we'll catch up with those folks. Getting up to date on all the regional shifts and changes that are coming across the country. So it's been quite a pack six months.

Tom Parkin 1:48

Yeah, it's been fun. Uh we've probed regionalism as a theme of Canada and both the challenge and opportunity for social democrats in a way that's kind of a theme of the show to profile the whole country and uh dig into different different tendencies and ideas. Guests come onto the show and they they really talk about different situations and problems in different parts of the country. And I find this so interesting, Nikki. And so taking it all together, let's let's reflect on the themes that we're seeing in the conversations we've had. Um and and maybe explore it in three buckets. First, uh federal politics, themes in federal politics. Then let's take a look at federal provincial relations, which has been pretty intense in the last few months uh and changed. Uh, and then maybe a little cross-country tour and uh take a look at some of the provinces and what's going on in each one of those places. So Nikki, federally, I I would say that the overarching federal story is the continued high support for the Carnegie's. But but certainly some of the Prime Minister's actions and comments have raised some doubts, some eyebrows, some doubts. Uh so let's talk about that. Uh, but also, if doubts are rising, and and polls from liaison and abacus do show some rising job disapproval disapproval score, although listen, Cardi's still pretty popular. Um if that is, though, a trend, how come we're not seeing an opposition leader benefit from it? What do you think, Nikki?

Nikki Hill 3:18

Yeah, I should think this uh this recent period in time is why we're not seeing Polyev as an opposition leader benefitor, sort of alluded to it in talking about the ramifications of the BC conservative leadership race, too. I think, you know, there doesn't appear to be a strategy here for Pierre Polyev. We've seen him coming into BC trying to push on some wedge issues lately, but really like his leadership style is has kind of always been a head scratcher for me. He doesn't seem to have been able to pivot out of that really high point of popularity in before the previous election, when it looked like, you know, the assumption was for a good couple years probably that the conservatives with his leadership were going to form the next government federally. And so when that didn't happen, he how he shows up as opposition leader in this current context, like it really hasn't changed. And I think one of the things I've just been watching is um, and you know, speaking back to why Polyev and the BC conservative leadership race are tied together, is this real infighting. He seems to keep driving in the national conservative movement. So you're like, we're over a month. We're hiding in, you know, six weeks after the BC conservative leadership race, which we've talked about a lot. But what's in the news this week about Pierre Polyev isn't, you know, what his response is on things like the BC federal government agreement on major projects or on you know affordability issues. It's him going after one of those BC conservative leadership candidates and campaigns in his stampede speech, which is now you know spilling over into what they have to be responsive on. So I just like I think Called her a liberal. Call her a liberal being run by liberal lobbies for him, right? Like you pushed in someone who actually voted for you as leader out to have to speak against comments you're making. So like fascinating to see in a leadership style at a point where you should be really trying to work to unite your party to get back to where you were, that causing this huge now frenzy of fighting, which you know, for those of us that are sitting out here watching eating our popcorn, watching the public conservative infighting that continues, like bring it on. But I would argue like these tactics are why he's just not seeing that traction.

Tom Parkin 5:35

Yeah. You saw you probably saw the tweets between um Nick Kuvallis and I think Corey Tnike and and you know, just back and forth different, you know, within the conservative movement. It's like uh, you know, uh the implication, and and really, you know, absolutely a hundred percent. P Polyev kicked it off um uh by calling Christian Elliott a by implication a liberal who was being run by liberal lobbyists. And those liberal lobbyists that he was referring to were people like um Gavallas and Tony and and and Kanike. So uh, you know, that's pretty insulting. Um it doesn't get more insulting than that. Uh so yeah, not a great way to run a party. So yeah, I I I have to agree with you. That's one reason why we're not seeing um Mr. Polyev pick up anything because he's just uh he's just screwing himself day after day, it seems, putting himself in more difficulty. And I wonder uh uh also, you know, he's kind of what is he left with after Carney's right turn? Let's just you know call it what it is. We climate policy. Where's Carney on climate policy? Right? He's uh I don't think he has one, right? What tax policy got rid of uh carbon tax, got rid of the capital uh inclusion rate increase, uh, got rid of the luxury boat tax and the private airplane luxury tax. Um anything else? What else did they take? Um obviously reducing. Yeah, so that whole tax agenda is really a conservative tax agenda. Um obviously the pipelines and all that, we'll get into that a little bit more, but the industrial carbon rate being reduced, just like where is there for Mr. Polyev to go, even if Carney is less uh appreciated?

Nikki Hill 7:22

Yeah, I do think it's one of those things where, I mean, uh certainly they've got smart people around them who could, and put maybe some of the folks that they've been fighting against could could help out with some polling numbers and seeing where the public is sitting, right? Because we know when looking at polling, the public is still really focused on those cost of living, affordability, and then it ties into, you know, do I have a job? Can I feed my family right now? Language. And then, you know, the other thing that really jumped out to me with Polyeb is him going after um the tanker ban and sort of trying to frame that people who support the continuation of the tanker ban are these, you know, left-wing radicals. It's like the majority of British Columbians support the tanker ban. Like if you want to win in BC, which is fertile ground for you, for him, right? So I think it is like those issues because Carney's, and maybe this also falls into the NDP space. Like Carney's obviously leaving a lot of questions. I think it's it's been, I spent a lot of time in the environmental and climate world. And a lot of those folks not only loaned their votes to Carney, but they also joined the liberals to support that leadership race process. So there's a lot of questions going on. I think they're, you know, had looked at Kearney's background around climate and finance and policy as a hopeful continuation of the Trudeau path, but really having their doubts now, certainly that's been solidified with folks like Guy Bo leaving, but it does leave it doesn't leave a lot of space. It almost feels like Carney's like taking that space where Polyev could be in the policy debate more, right? On those major projects, on those that deregulation, on the rolling back of things like pesticides and you know, things that seem like pretty motherhood. I think to the public. So it's not, I think, really crowding out polyev as as well in the direction that Carney's going.

Tom Parkin 9:10

And I don't like for Polyv, like on the tanker ban and and uh like Alberta got its pipeline. It's got an approval for a pipeline. We're gonna spend a lot of money on another pipeline. It wasn't the one, the energy, sorry, the Northern Gateway uh idea that was going to go to Kidamat. Um but kind of like so what? Yeah, like count the win. Uh but this guy seems to be intent on counting the lose and just wants to always find the negative in everything, and that just becomes so irritating to me. I um like this this ship has sailed, uh, you're whipping a dark a dead horse. I mean, I don't know how you want to put it, but like that's not the conversation anymore. Uh so I don't understand why he would want to and can and can Kelly um I'm sorry, I'm not Kelly, Carrie Lynn Finley uh also seems to be in that track of complaining about things that are like do you guys have a problem with yes, like winning something? Yeah, you got what you wanted.

Nikki Hill 10:12

Yeah, that it's interesting. That the BC Conservatives have been talking about the tanker ban as an economic blockade this week that's brought in by the NDP. You know, the the tanker ban's been in place for decades. Like we're not talking about a new policy here, right? So but no, I think this is where it's the, you know, why we see Pali Ev coming into to BC, you know, trying to push on things like private property rights and reconciliation. Like they're looking, they're kind of throwing that policy jello at the wall. But I again, I think like we have talked a lot in the show, maybe in terms of the things that aren't shifting, people's concern about their gas prices and their food prices is not shifting. It's growing. I would think that the you know working middle class space that someone like Polyev could be at a instead of trying to find these wedge issues, you could really be digging into buildings. So then, you know, that does leave space for the for the Democrats that's not being occupied by either Kearney or the opposition at this stage, right?

Tom Parkin 11:07

Now I did see uh there was an interesting poll the other day. Um I can't remember which poll a couple of them was, but the question was how urgent do you see climate change? And uh it was about 50% of people rated it as a seven to ten.

unknown 11:24

Yeah.

Nikki Hill 11:24

That was dad's candidate, I think, Tom.

Tom Parkin 11:27

Was it? Okay.

Nikki Hill 11:28

Yeah, I think it's yeah, yeah.

Tom Parkin 11:30

And and I thought, you know, it's interesting because I think I don't think the climate denial or or the fact that c climate change is being created by humans and created by emissions, I don't think that that has changed. Um it's just that it's being disregarded in the in the in the in the certain in the in the current uh environment.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 11:51

So there's a latent uh concern there, and that kind of com brings me back to Avi Lewis because he's obviously very strong on that on that point, that he wants to see climate change and economic change work together. But I would say, you know, he the NDP is up in the polls, but not to the level you want to see. Um and then I think that a difficult poll for Avi came out last week where it showed that his awareness, awareness of him is very low.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 12:25

So he's got a lot of work to do, uh, that's for sure. And um but you know, does he have the work plan to to do it? Uh does he have the strategy to get himself well known and to focus in on the issues uh that you know you were talking about about jobs and paychecks and uh affordability. Um sometimes I see him drift off to the side and you know, on on issues that he likes, which which is great, but you gotta connect with the voters.

Nikki Hill 12:55

So I'm concerned with that. Well, and if if we think about the issues in the past I and the climate piece, I the reason I remember I think that you're talking about the StatsCan data, Tom, is that on climate being so high, it was like 50% of Canadians still have this overarching fear of climate change. You know, we're going into wildfire season already, drought. Um, so it's logical, but it doesn't, you know, I don't think decision makers they're seeing it so far down, other polling data. So I actually was, you know, happy to see that StatsCan put out something as that credible source on data here. So I I do think it is how to um, but I think that's you know, weighs into how the public thinks about climate and the way that it can impact their lives directly, right? Well and that is going to be those welfare. But I think it is on finding the issues for Lewis, um, it, you know, how they bring together that that public concern about where things are. And again, I think it kind of goes back to what about climate impacts me and my family and my and my daily life here when we're seeing some sorts of stats.

Tom Parkin 14:01

Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a a couple of things that they haven't tried that, you know, might be worth trying that along this vein, which is um, you know, insurance costs, the cost of like just if you want to just monetize or you know, imagine this in dollar terms and put it in affordability terms in that prison, there's lots of stuff to go at that say that climate change is costing us already. Who's paying that? We are. Who's causing it? These oil companies that are making billions and billions of profit, profiting from war, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's like there's a lane there he could go down. You know, it might be interesting.

Nikki Hill 14:37

It is. And I think I was looking at some polling this week or had some shared with me, which shows it's really fascinating to see how high it was a Western Canada poll, how high the public's distrust of corporations is right now. And probably not a huge shift, but still remains very high, right? So when you add in some of the things you just talked about, I think there is that um ability to sort of not that I'm saying, you know, go after every corporation, but I think there is an increasing awareness here for the public about where some of these hardships are laying. And it's not government action in many ways. It's how, you know, government could be stepping in in different ways. But I think there is a growing concern in the public from looking at some of this data about the actions of corporations that are impacting lives. So that does go back into that food. But I think, you know, for Lewis, he's gonna um it is, I think it takes a little bit. I think if the issues where he got some of the most traction, though, in the past few months, there probably is that predatory grocery pricing, right? And I think that all feeds into where the public's at and why people perked up and paid attention to that issue.

Tom Parkin 15:44

And and his food and his you know, grocery store idea. I mean, people are like, yeah, well, let's try it. Can't be worse. Yeah. And and then you got the like the right-wing think tanks just dismissing it out of hand. It's like, well, why why you guys like don't even want to try this? Obviously, what your guys are are suggesting is not working. Um so Yeah, I think he's got a like he's got a couple of I don't know, arrows in his quiver that he could be um focusing in on. Uh and then it's just I think it's you know, so obviously tough for being a leader of a small third party at this point to get the media coverage, but that also argues for why when you do get it, you gotta be really focused on what you want to say.

Nikki Hill 16:30

Yeah. Yeah. So and you really have to drive it. I mean, I've probably talked before about you know staffing Jack Leighton when he first became leader and had no staff. And you know, we literally drove to to newspapers and tried to get in with the editorial team when he'd be in NBC because they just you're not getting that traction. So I think the other thing for Lewis too is you know, he's make he's made the decision. And I actually am, you know, I people have big feelings on this. He's made the decision not to run in one of the seven by elections or that are coming up. I don't have a lot of big feelings on this. I'm probably somewhere in the middle about whether it's a good idea having worked with, you know, Leighton when he didn't have a seat, with Carol James here in BC when she didn't have one. Like I think when there's you know advantages and disadvantages to to getting the seat this early and then being in the house when it's back for such a long period. So um, and getting the right seat, I think is important. But that's going to be, I think, how he then strategically, while there are seven by-elections, inserts himself into the debate as well, will be, you know, a a big uh has to be a very well thought out strategy to not step in on those candidates, but to still show up as a national leader when we've got this high number going on.

Tom Parkin 17:41

Yeah. Just uh I mean, I I remember this from Jugmeet Singh when he won, he didn't have a seat. Um and there's a signific I think there's a significant difference between the two of them that's not being taken into account on the calculation. For Jugmeet Singh, he won as a leader who could win anywhere, right? Because he won in Brampton, and the NDP had never won a seat in Brampton, and he was gonna save the party, he was gonna win in the suburbs, he was gonna connect with different communities, and like he like that was kind of you know, he was hired on that basis, if you if you can say it that way. Abi was like, your party's had the crap kicked out of it, and you're really taking it over at a low point, and there's no expectation. So if he was to run in a seat and lose, I just don't think it has the same as if Juck Meat had won and lost. Um so so the m but on the other hand, if he if if if Abby did run and won, that would all might also so you know it really is one of those things. It's really it's uh is it possible to know because there's downsides on on every outcome, and you can't predict the outcome. So I I don't I don't know whether it's the right decision or the wrong decision, but I I think just thinking it's not it's not the same as it was with Jack. It's not the same as it was uh with Jugmeat. It's a different kind of like just because the expectations of the NDP are very different and very low electorally right now.

Nikki Hill 19:05

Yeah, and I think like if we draw on to the Jack and or Carol James example, they both waited for their right seats in general elections in their homes, right? There and they weren't it wasn't a long time. I think Carol was only had a didn't have a seat for like 16 months. It wasn't long. Um, we only had one by-election in that period she could have won in, which would have made zero sense. Um, and the person who is elected, well, got elected there in 2004 is still elected and is part of that community, right? Like it's not um I actually argued at the time, and I probably think I think I still believe this that Dug Me, that Burnaby seat that that he did win was the wrong seat for him, right? It was in sort of the wrong province.

Tom Parkin 19:43

He got shotgunned into that thing. So liberals played games on him. Um remember if there was a whole whole thing about oh, we're gonna open a seat in Brampton, and we're not. And so he was like, uh But liberals are great at that. They really are.

Nikki Hill 19:56

So Yeah, and then we had a you know he ends up in a Burnaby seat far from home and there's a pandemic, right?

Tom Parkin 20:00

Like Yeah, yeah. There's I don't think there's a you know, you can know that there's a right decision on this because it's it's a tough one. Very tough.

Nikki Hill 20:09

Uh so a lot of people seem to have opinions right now. So we're gonna go with the right. Yeah, yeah, it's getting a fair bit of commentary and the news.

Tom Parkin 20:20

Yeah, but I don't see a lot of new Democrats having strong feelings other than you know on this.

Nikki Hill 20:26

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, there you go.

Tom Parkin 20:30

All right.

Nikki Hill 20:31

All right. Okay, well, that's our federal.

Tom Parkin 20:33

Yeah, let's let's dig into the federal provincial stuff a little bit. Um Yeah.

Nikki Hill 20:38

So obviously provincial relationships, these alliances are always going to be keying pain politics, particularly, I think, right now, where we we've got this bubbling separatist movement. We've got Alberta and Quebec both uh a lot of shifts here going on potentially and how the public's thinking about those provinces. And it's not new that premiers need federal support, whether it's policy or funding to move their provincial goals ahead. Uh, and obviously prime ministers need to be attuned into those, those goals. They're, you know, share voters, they share um goals as well within each of those provinces. But question our question after these last, you know, six months of doing the podcast is are the provinces currently in better alignment with the federal government under Kearney and with each other than under Trudeau, but is something also being lost there right now? What do you think, Tom?

Tom Parkin 21:32

I would say probably the answer to the first question is yes, there is better alignment. We see less tension between Alberta and Ottawa. We see less tension between Alberta and BC. They've kind of squared the deal.

Nikki Hill 21:46

Um Which is shocking with everything going on, right?

Tom Parkin 21:50

Well, there's I think that's worth digging into a little bit about how that came about. There's also the Quebec angle of uh Freshette, Freschette coming, kind of coming back really with. with Kearney's help, uh the PQ not doing as like coming down in the polls a bit. So I would say on that score as well, better alignment between the provinces, between the governments and the feds. But is something being lost? I think so. Like we lost any any any vague idea that we have a climate plan in this country.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 22:23

Uh that just got that just got sacrificed right off the bat. So that's gone. We've got uh I I you know we've got Alberta doing some so-called experimenting uh with healthcare delivery but it's it's credit card payment time it's like put your you know you want fast treatment get your credit card out for things that are covered by um the Alberta plan. So that's contrary to uh Canada Health Act. Like I just don't see how it's not but it's not being enforced because again so because we want to just kind of get along.

Nikki Hill 23:02

Yeah you know one thing I was thinking about though is something that um premier EB says and I and I think we've probably heard Premier can you say it as well is um you know how lonely it is for them as progressive premiers at that at that first minister's table, right? So I think, you know, as we think about some of the relationships and dynamic with Carney he's also dealing largely with you know more conservative governments besides BC and Manitoba. So I think there could be a factor there as well in what the Fed provincial dynamic is just based on um where that value set and priorities are right now. But I mean I think the biggest thing that we're seeing is a shift and it it's certainly again not new but it's the big shift is where the majority of the provinces have these big deficits now. So um you know it really is I think only Manitoba that doesn't. And so if we're do if they're dealing with massive deficits, they are so much more reliant on the federal government to be bringing the funding in. So they're going to play differently with the feds um try to access some of that defense funds, try to access into some of the new infrastructure and housing and all of the things of the major projects right and that they're much they're much more dependent I would argue right now.

Tom Parkin 24:22

Mm-hmm that's that's that's probably true, yeah. And just back in your province, um, you know, well here in Ontario we had a large deal with the feds about um infrastructure you know the usual stuff kind of infrastructure but also housing um you guys had a housing NBC had a housing arrangement with the feds that drew a fair bit of controversy. The one in Ontario did not although I I would say that that is actually the one that is on it like clearly a bailout um for condo owners the what I got actually a a a call from one of the folks in your premier's communications branch right who was like no Tom this is you're you're not seeing this right and he was really pushing this idea like these are depressed sales units and we're gonna scoop them. Yeah and uh at the end of the conversation I was like okay maybe right because I was quite initially quite critical of the idea thinking okay this is Carney oh they're reading your player is that what's happening Tom yes maybe you know but uh these but they they were very insistent and and kind of pushed the argument like no we're gonna move in we're gonna take you know liquidation prices below construction cost prices and we're gonna we're gonna you know put push that into the rental stream and that's gonna depress um rent costs as well. So interesting so what I thought was interesting but if that's true yeah what it suggests is that there were a very different approach in BC than in Ontario. Yeah which uh kind of goes again to the flexibility of Mr. Carney ideologically exactly I'm cutting idea and I think that's m maybe um that's kind of interesting. Because I see that he has a specific take on the world very neoliberal in his in his ideas but also you know if the if the if your premier's position is correct they're doing something quite different then so that's not a bad thing but that that's an interesting um that's an interesting idea about uh what federalism is yeah it is a federal the federal government doesn't really drive things it kind of responds to regional requests.

Nikki Hill 26:40

And I mean if you look at how both the Prime Minister and then um and Minister Robertson Gregor Robertson um have been responding and talking about it, they are making it really clear even in the last few days that this is a BC project or even you know in in the push from the conservatives um nationally on this as well as this is a BC idea. So I think you know the I think and everyone agrees and I probably won't get a call from the Premier's office for saying this, but I think um like I think partly the problem here was more the rollout on the calm side, right? So you know you're negotiating these deals step up have the announcement not it's not quite ready for prime time and and that was visible.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

No.

Nikki Hill 27:18

Now what I would say which isn't always visible is you know premier EB is his he's a housing policy guy. The only policy plank he got out in the leadership race before it was truncated in BC in 2024 was his housing policy. He's you know has a high interest in in housing he has been really open to innovative ways to change what has been you know different definitely pressure points in Metro Vancouver and BC around the housing crisis for years. So you know I but knowing that you know I I know that because I'm here and I do housing all day. And so but I see like their challenge was the the rollout and how that was communicated and not being quite ready to say this is what we're looking at. So I think as we didn't have the details they didn't have the details and they also had the um disadvantage of they had also in the February budget made some massive cuts around um stopping a a fund that was being very heavily relied on by the nonprofit housing and private sector housing providers, which is about a $10 million like hit here into the system. So they came out of this like stopping the intake of a fund that was very much being relied on to get nonprofit and affordable housing out there and then come up with this idea. So it's hard, you know, hard to then square it, I think for the public about what the goals are. Now I just believe knowing where Evie's brain works on housing and he is an innovative guy and he listens to people who have new ideas on some, particularly on housing, that there is something they have underway here. But it is fascinating to watch the feds sort of go, well that's BC's idea, right? Like we but and you're right where they are giving a lot of leeway here to say you know BC negotiated this in it's going to be theirs to go run with. But um you know the other thing the premier said is he he I think like they are clear that they there is there is a plan here. But he's also you know he said a couple weeks ago that if people really don't like it, they won't proceed on it. So you know there's again some flexibility there on the Fed provincial deal to to change policy.

Tom Parkin 29:34

I wonder how much as well it weighs into on the BC front the federal relationship weighs into the idea that somebody who's obviously very hostile to the federal liberals just got elected as the BC conservative leader. It's not the old you know unite the right broad broad right in BC.

Nikki Hill 29:51

And they went out really hard on it.

Tom Parkin 29:53

Yeah. You know he's just like they're kind of being dicks and so he's like well okay if you guys don't want to play, um I'll work with the people who are there.

Nikki Hill 30:01

It's not a condo bailout like Ford we're talking about actually the the long-term plan really is something the premier's been talking about for Raw, which is making it easier for people to find new ways to buy into the market, you know, at the same time as they deal with the rental market. So it'll be interesting to see where they go but I um I'm sure there's things I know there's things percolating it just didn't roll out that way.

Tom Parkin 30:26

Well we'll have to watch to see whether it is a bailout or it really isn't a kind of inventive solution.

Nikki Hill 30:31

I doubt we'll see bailout so that but we'll see if we can well come back on that they certainly got the caution flag now, don't they?

Tom Parkin 30:38

So they're gonna have to work really hard to make it into something that yeah. One other one that was interesting in the last few months was it the last few months is um yeah uh can the canola deal with China. So yeah and and the deal to allow some Chinese made vehicles into Canada which deeply upset um the auto industry Unifor uh Doug Ford of course you know the polit you know March styles everybody had to be like because we're so engaged with the auto industry um and this is just an offshore source this is not a manufactured in Canada source but squaring China and peeling maybe peeling um Scott Moe away from Daniel Smith a little bit getting prairie farmers settled down that could cause I guess that was just more attractive so it seems to have got Mr.

Nikki Hill 31:36

Moe in his place right he's a pretty quiet guy these days he has been very quiet these days we were talking about that with Carla Beck right um but yeah and I think but these are I think the sort of questions around where the prime minister moves is you know what's the long term when what is the short term solution that he's trying to drive, right? So um I think there's the question I hear from people often is like are we just not seeing the strategy behind all of this or is there no strategy? And I think a lot of people are still kind of leaning into there must be some you know there must be a a large gameplay at works here. So that will only be told by time.

Tom Parkin 32:16

Yeah well well that's the you know liberals are always play playing fourth dimensional chess and we're just too dumb to understand it line right um when in fact you go oh actually they just really had no clue and they stumble they're stumbling around like anybody else right yeah yeah all right um let's just take a little tour across the country or at least some major parts of the country Houston I would say Houston Frachette's the new prime uh premier in in Quebec uh Ford Mo Smith and EB are all under some political pressure um so the question in voters' minds is stay or change change always or can imply risk uh I was thinking Nikki do you think do you think that uh the the the leaders who are uh facing the pressure are doing enough um to to highlight the risk of their alternatives uh do you think the opposition leaders who are wanting to increase the pressure are are doing enough to lower the perceptions of risk for and of change risk of change um or you know or in a weird way i i at some point it's the incumbent premier who becomes the risk it's like we can't go on with this person right it's just too much we have to move whatever like it's less risky to to to get somebody who's um you know unknown untried and whatever because we just can't continue in this direction what do you think this is a big challenge I think in your province what do you think in the BC situation about this idea of risk I mean BC's oh BC is interesting not just today always um so and I actually think like things have shifted here a bit um and you know certainly uh it was a tough spring there are some few concerning polls I always say that I don't ever have an issue with politicians seeing some concerning polls because it means they got to start to regroup on what's causing those.

Nikki Hill 34:14

But it was a really tough spring here in the legislature in BC on the the BC on the UN Declaration overlaid with that conservative leadership race, an even tougher budget. So I would say like if we were talking mid-June, the feeling was very different for a David Eby. But even at that point you'd really the only place you were seeing that call for a change in NDP leader was the BC conservatives on like social media, right? You weren't hearing it within the NDP you weren't maybe a little bit in the media saying how long till he how long is he going to stay? But it wasn't something happening I think like large widespread even in what saw some of those polls getting tighter our polls are always tight here. But I would say it was a tough you know going into mid-June and a really tough spring. But I think coming out through the last couple weeks of mid-June, I think we're in a different scenario here. And a couple things happened I think for David EB that helped one was, you know, the China trip, you know, helpful first first trip to China, um maybe not on the public radar, but leans into that some of those trade mission needs. But the big thing I think was two things happened in parallel. One was the BC conservatives did their first leadership ship shuffle in terms of their management team, house leader, caucus management, all those roles and went in with Carrie Lynn Finley putting all of the you know furthest right in her party that had supported her into those roles. So really gives the media and the public an indication of when the premier is talking about that MAGA back again then toward you're just talking about um influence within the BC conservatives it's very clear when you look at who they just put into those key influencing roles within the party. So but Gibbs then I think as we're talking about any opposition leader and then any current premier who saw because a lot of them saw their polls come down through the spring not, you know, pretty understandable with those budgets that everybody brought in and those deficits and affordability I think employment inflation unless you walk new you're like you're pretty much like see having seen a tough spring. And so I think um but in the you know getting in that federal provincial BC deal, I'm gonna say that the next poll we see has a bump. Premier EB also got a new caucus member in recent weeks uh someone who was elected as a BC conservative had left that caucus to be an independent amiriabolby is now a new Democrat. So you know no longer a one-seat majority in BC it's a two seat in election two years ago she was more of a centrist conservative or what's her history that's an unusual move right well if we remember how the BC conservatives and the BC United came together pretty quickly right before the election when BC United folded so that's you know it is an unusual makeup of a party still. So I think you know I think we'll see David Eve have a bump. I think it was a good latter half of June. Now we're gonna go back into a a really heated fall I'm sure around reconciliation unfortunately but we are I think if we think about other provinces and how it works we're the unfortunate thing is I think we're into heavy polarization. And it is because either we have some of those more right-leaning conservative governments in place and then you know new Democrats trying to flank and show the alternative here or the opposite where you know in BC it is able to draw a direct line to say here is you know what New Democrats are presenting. You may not be happy with overall performance we're you know continuing to try to shift these policy big policy pieces like housing, like healthcare like like jobs and focus on major projects and our alternative is a very clearly you know high risk. And that's what the that's the narrative we're hearing. So I would imagine we hear that in other provinces too.

Tom Parkin 37:57

Right taking away uh labor rights including training rights from the trades, uh probably an assault on uh rent control, um giving up on the idea that there should be any social housing construction whatsoever. You know who knows what their attitude is towards slashing budgets to you know try and bring balance to you know so I you know I just think those they could work hard on just like making them the issue while they're trying to increase de-risk themselves by well we saw it we saw it in the the Stats can numbers on Friday um BC's unemployment rate I think came down uh point three um Ontario had and so it's like at 6.4 or something 6.4 Ontario seven um Alberta seven so you know um they could de-risk themselves a little bit and look like well you know what they're not perfection on earth but they're they're doing reasonably well and those other guys I think that's gonna be worse for me. Yeah you know in a in a way that's kind of like like next door in Alberta you you can very actively see Nanshi putting in that idea that that Daniel Smith is the risk.

Nikki Hill 39:08

Yeah exactly yeah and maybe why Scott mows the heads down a little bit more these days, right? So he's not putting it up as the risk when he's starting to be two years from an election. So you know Tim Houston's not necessarily keeping his head down in the same way but I think you know you don't I don't think you actually Carolyn Finley is interesting because she's so values based and her platform is very like it's freedom and faith. But interestingly I actually saw some polling the other day that showed that Canadians are talking about freedom as a value in pretty big ways right now. And it's you know hard to say what that means to them but there is a like a shift in how in voter perception about where we're at in the world and and in their lives and what they need. And and interestingly that you know concept of freedom is is is leaning in pretty heavily in Western Canada.

Tom Parkin 39:56

Mm-hmm. Interesting yeah um in in I like when we talked to Carla Beck a couple of weeks ago I I thought well she's got an ad a natural advantage in the fact that she's already got a large caucus and she doesn't have that much many many more seats that she has to pick up to to get rid of Scott Moe. Yeah so that's that's great. But she also said a couple of things that I thought were very smart. She she said you know after 17 years or whatever it's been of Scott Moe government, Scott Moe talking about how bad the NDP in Saskatchewan was et cetera et cetera people believe it. So we we have to change their minds. We have to go to places that we haven't gone to for a long time. Now they have the caucus size that they can do that. Yeah um and and and show them the plans that make them feel comfortable yeah right de-risking to the Sask NDP. So Mo is the risk because he's just an incompetent boob and Carla is the you know the competent one who's talking to people about you know developing electricity plans developing healthcare plans anybody can look at them I think that's a pretty smart way engaging people on them yes right pretty pretty smart way of going about it um on on her train um Nenshi I'm not sure like he can definitely make the argument that Smith and the separatists are the risk and the kind of chaos that they create but he's got his own kind of risk problems that he can can get thrown at him um around uh I think probably the oil patch and that you know secretly he's of course you know a tree hugger or something like that. But you know which is bad news in Alberta I guess. But that I that risk idea. And just to take it one further in Ontario I think we're seeing something where the the risk of the risk on Doug Ford is growing. Like people just see it as a a less and less competent government government that does things for strange reasons but still rather popular even though Ford himself is really disliked or at least people say they will continue to vote for him. And I think this goes to the idea of what are my alternatives?

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 42:20

And Mark Styles is in a different situation because if you say I don't like this government I want to vote for somebody else now there's a competition between who that somebody else is going to be. Is it going to be the Liberals or is it going to be Mark Styles and Andy P so Carly doesn't have that Nancy doesn't have that um but I think as well right now David Evie doesn't have that but we'll see how everything goes here. Maybe there'll be a new Liberal party but that's an interesting you know it's a di a dynamic that is not only in Ontario but uh it's it's it's it's not common provincially and the thing I you know Mart's ability to per project herself as the option to get the province back on track. Right the the the the the lower risk. So if you think about it that way what would be the strategy to try and establish yourself as that competent alternative choice to do the things that Doug you know rebuild the jobs, rebuild the industries, to you know work on paychecks, work on housing, work on a four like the fundamentals um and you know the liberals can try, but the liberals I don't know. I I don't I don't know whether they can do it. But anyway, it just seems like that's the project for Mart is to differentiate herself on the affirmative not just on the ne on the negative against Doug.

Nikki Hill 43:46

Well I mean I actually think the project for all all these leaders whether they're in government or opposition right now and progressives is that I think, you know, where we're seeing that shift and maybe it goes back to that kind of concept of things like freedom showing up and you know polling is As things that people are are thinking about. Um is the, and there could be lots of layers to that in terms of you know what we've gone through since the US administration changed. But I also think like we are in a um uh it is a a we are we are seeing a shifting mood in the public. We are shifts, we've seen that I think um we see we're seeing a big shift on things like approaches to indigenous rights. We're seeing a big shift in the public on their um feelings about immigration, whether people are immigrants or not. Um, we are seeing more anti-immigration feelings within public domain polling showing up. And so I think where leaders and parties are going to struggle. And I think this is a struggle for someone like Ninchy, because while, you know, there's low support for in Alberta for separatism and for actually, you know, moving away from Canada, there is actually still high support, even among progressive voters and union voters and others, for some of the underlying who's to blame for what we perceive as our grievances in Alberta about how we're not being treated fairly or how we're not getting our share. And a lot of that does go back into where that grievance-based um feeling and you know, who in the last six years is to blame for why I don't feel like I'm better off. And it's not governments, it's gonna be immigrants, it's gonna be First Nations, it's gonna be those groups that aren't to blame, but that it's easy to draw those lines too for folks who are are really focused on the why is why am I not feeling, why am I feeling like my life is worse right now? So that's gonna be the real tricky part for these for progressive politicians is how not to lean in to somewhere where we're seeing some of this growing sentiment, how to counter it, um, and and then how to, you know, know that the the right um opposition to them, no matter what form they're in, is going to be really trying to keep wedging it.

Tom Parkin 45:53

Yeah, it's I think it's you know difficult for Nenci for he to try to, you know, I think as you say, there's this uh anti-indigenous you know narrative that r got amplified because of the pipeline debate. And and you know, that's just the way it was gonna go. Um and Nenshi supported them uh the the first First Nations in Alberta on that fight, which I think is that is right. But he's gotta, as well as fight it on that basis or support them in their fight, also find somehow an economic agenda that is positive. Um because if he cannot if like we were talking about the I was suggesting this the other week, like I don't believe the story. I don't believe that the numbers back the story that the Alberta oil industry is is paying the wages that it used to and that everybody's right, yeah. Like that's just not playing out the way it is. Um so but I think a lot of people still in their minds have this idea that everything is very dependent upon the oil industry, and that's like that that's jobs in Alberta. It's like, no, it's part of it, but it's not like it's just a part of it.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 47:10

Um so I guess the question the the the challenge for Nancy is like, how do you try and say, okay, without getting without without getting into a real dust-up with the oil and gas industry who will like fucking chop his head off, right?

Nikki Hill 47:24

Because those are still an important economic driver in that province.

Tom Parkin 47:29

So without without getting into that, how to try and uh outline an economic agenda people have feel comfortable with and saying, okay, Naheed and Engie has a plan to we we accept. And in fact, you kind of can implicitly say like we accept that the oil and gas industry is declining in this province. We see it in the numbers, it's just a fact. UPC is lying about that. But um, we're not gonna get into a fight about that. What we're gonna get in a fight about is who's got a plan to diversify the economy, get other sectors uh working strongly as well and and and create jobs because it got high unemployment. And you know, I think MART, in a way, in Ontario, has a similar challenge. Now to try and come up with that alternative plan. It's tough. Um Claudia, gender.

Nikki Hill 48:16

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 48:17

We had we had her on.

Nikki Hill 48:18

Exciting. It's good. Yeah, she's had some great polls.

Tom Parkin 48:22

Yeah. What do you think the story is there?

Nikki Hill 48:28

Well, I actually think it's an example there because we are seeing some of that that polling shift and seeing it more and more. And we had, you know, we had uh James Valky on a few weeks ago, but also we're seeing it in other polls around Nova Scotia improvements. I actually think it's the um uh being able to deliver that alternative vision that they're doing so well and that Claudia Shender does herself, but also that commitment to getting out and talking to people, right? And I think I've been thinking about um organizing in in different ways. And I think what the Nova Scotia NDP is trying to do is because there's only so you can't stay online and have good conversations. You can't have any good conversations online, really. Let's just accept that at this point. But they're getting out there and actually talking to people in in community. So I think there's something there that's driving the alternative voice and they're doing it well, and obviously, you know, smaller communities to to get out and have the conversations. But you put Claudia out there to to talk to people. And we when we talked to her, she was planning on, you know, I think she she noted after seeing her kids, spending a lot of time out in community on and on the road this summer. So I think that's where we see these these bumps. And if politicians, we can't really counter disinformation and and the way the public is is feeling about their lives right now without some of those direct conversations. I think they're they're showing that in Nova Scotia.

Tom Parkin 49:46

Yeah. I I thought it was one of the things that stuck out from the interview we did with her was her comment that Tim Houston makes people feel like there's just some number on the side of a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 49:58

And and you know, he kind of comes off that way, cool, cold even. And she is very personable. Right? Like to me, yeah. Like she just seems straightforward, uh kind of like down home person who understands Nova Scotia. Straightforward.

unknown 50:18

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 50:19

So I think that's a lot of her uh a lot of her strength. Uh and the Liberals now being in third, obviously, and in somewhat disarray. But I think her challenge is like, and again, not to overcompare with Ontario, but that's where I am, and I think about it a lot.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 50:35

Um, she's got the same challenge as Mart Styles does, which is there's a lot of room still that she has to make up.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

Yes.

Tom Parkin 50:41

Because the PCs did very well in the last election. And so to get I I can't remember her seat count, but it is a lot of distance. Yeah. It's not like Carla Beck. It's not like Carla Beck where you just gotta pick up four or five seats. So, really that challenge of thinking about um that audience outside of Cape Breton, outside of uh uh Halifax, yeah, where can you get wins and how do you connect with the small towns of Halifax and make people feel like this is somebody who's gonna like doesn't treat me like a number on a spreadsheet, right? Who's in touch with the issues? Electricity, right? She's been good on that one. Those are good ones. But the culture piece I think that she talked about was interesting. Like let's like this is a people come to Nova Scotia as tourists because they love our culture, the little like she talked about the you know, marmalade festival or the jam festival in you know whatever small town that they that they do on some weekend in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 51:41

And people, you know, head out of Halifax and go see that and they spend local tourist dollars. Like that's a plus, right? You gotta protect that um not only as a culture, but as a business, as an industry. Uh so she seemed in touch with that too. So that might help her um find those places. Yeah, I think she's got a bit of time, right?

Nikki Hill 52:04

Yeah, so that's on time. I also think, you know, when I when I think about where Claudia's at right now and the Claudia versus Tim Houston, is it does remind me of our, you know, working for the BC NDP in the rebuilding years after the catastrophic loss in 01. When Carol James came in in 2003 and Gordon Campbell was becoming, you know, increasingly unpopular because of a similar Tim Houston approach, cuts being distant from people, like being, you know, that that downtown Vancouver guy that had to throw on a plaid shirt to make himself look like he was one of the people. And Carol reminds me, I think, of that, you know, this strong woman with strong social values who we put out on the road to talk to people like a human. And like, you know, we didn't win um that 2005 election, that first one, or the 09 election. But it's remarkable how quickly we rebuilt after being decimated with a Carol James being the opponent to a Gordon Campbell. And I think there's actually a Tim Houston, Claudius Gender parallel here in what it means to have that, you know, that that woman, that person who is leader, who is a counter to that, that more seen as cold, separate from the public kind of premier like a Houston that we we should keep watching.

Tom Parkin 53:24

Yeah. Oh, we should say something about Quebec because there's going to be an election this fall.

Nikki Hill 53:29

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 53:30

And remember we had uh Yeah. Well, we exactly. Well, um we had we've had a couple of discussions with the Quebec politics, a couple of updates. And I think the last one that we did uh was was um Freshette had just taken over as as CAQ leader and premier of the province. The CAQ had one been one point down as low as like 9% in a worse poll or something like that. Like 9% for the CAQ governing party. Um the PQ was way ahead, but like 35, 37, I think, kind of zones. Very minority government feeling, but maybe on a split, could become a majority. Um liberals get a new leader, Freshette comes along, and now if we look at the polls, it's it's like the the liberals are in the low 20s, I believe. Um Freshette is is brought the CAQ back into the 20s and and the PQ has come down. And I because of vote distribution in the province, it's it's uh, you know, the the the the West Island is you know there's there's writings that just go 80%, not I don't know, I'm making that up, but you know, massively go liberal, uh the Anglophone vote. But so it's really concentrated in the other seats where things will be won or lost. So I would interpret this as meaning that Freshette is is bringing back some votes from the PQ, and that the idea which Pala Dam is big on, which is we're gonna have a a referendum of separation, and and like he's like, that's what we're gonna do when you elect a PQ government. But people are like, why? Yeah, only about a third of a third of people are interested in that. It's not gonna go, and we're just gonna get everybody else like risk like again. So all right, you know, she seems like she seems very engaging, she seems very uh energetic, uh, and she scored some money off the feds, right? So she's a change from uh Lego. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, that that that that risk idea may play again that um PQ looks like the risky option, whereas the CAQ looks like maybe more okay, new leader. Yeah, but let's just stay where we are.

Nikki Hill 55:55

And a new leader can ride that a long time, right?

Tom Parkin 55:58

So Yeah, and I worry about in the in we'll we'll see how that works out for the Quebec Solidaire. I don't uh not they're not pulling so great, but yeah.

Nikki Hill 56:08

Okay, well, we covered a bunch of big topics and weighty questions. There's lots here about where Canadian politics is heading, and I think uh, you know, some parallel lessons for some of the provinces going into elections or many, just two years from an election, sitting here in BC as well. But we just talked a lot about a lot of others that are in the same zone. We're gonna have a busy 2028 if everything stays on target for all these elections. So um that's our trying to wrap up uh the first six months of the year. We'll see how we do in December when we wrap up a year. Um, but let's take a quick break and come back with Love It or Heave It.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Okay.

Tom Parkin 57:02

About something you love and want to keep, or something you'd like to heave and forever forget. What about you, Nikki? Loving or heaving this week?

Nikki Hill 57:12

Well, I'm gonna geek out and love me some land use planning, like a total conservation nerd, and you probably won't hear a lot of people say that. But um, we've been talking a lot about pipelines, tanker bands, major projects. It's dominating the news cycle. But I'm actually loving our next steps around conservation planning in the context of a lot of these major projects as well. So BC has actually been rolling out um some next steps that are long coming in places that have, you know, been much beloved in the province and much advocated for. There's conservation takes a heck of a lot of time to do, decades and consultation and working with First Nations, but uh a number of new projects going to the next stages in the last couple of weeks, including the Jumbo watershed in southwest southeast BC, which folks may know of, the Skaggot River headwaters near the Canada-US border, and then Old Growth um Roche Valley up near Prince George. So there's also been some movement. You you know, you'll hear if you're listening to Prime Minister Carney talk about the Northwest Critical Conservation Corridor in the context of major projects. And I think that conservation word is really important in there because there's mining, critical minerals, lots of work happening, but also, again, land use planning going on with First Nations. So I think these are exciting pieces to see because it is that balance. I think it's the seeking that balance of um of conservation, reconciliation, and economic growth at the same time is important to keep driving governments on. But why am I loving land use planning? It's one of those things where I think no one really should be paying attention to land use planning overall. But it is a very complex long-term process, which is why I love it, because it's actually bringing together all of these different stakeholders. So there's a lot of work with First Nations, but then a huge part of the process is making sure local communities, the public, industry, other advocates have some input, ability to have some transparency, ensuring that there's accountability with government, and making sure that all those perspectives are being put forward for community when talking about how to protect the land base. So I am a fan of land use of planning. I am a fan of marine planning because it actually does bring these perspectives. And the idea is when you get to the final result of the conservation plan, you don't have these conflicts. You've actually dealt with them in the process as we should by being able to sit down and have those dialogues. So keep bringing on these plans. They're gonna take forever to finish up. And um, and you know, we see different types of engagement rolling out right now. But I can tell you these are decades in the making and great to see get to these next steps with some actual collaborative planning processes going on.

Tom Parkin 1:00:02

Some things should be outside politics.

Nikki Hill 1:00:05

Exactly.

Tom Parkin 1:00:06

Right? Many things should be outside politics in government.

Nikki Hill 1:00:09

We've talked about this a bit.

Tom Parkin 1:00:10

It's kind of an interesting theme of what should be outside politics.

Nikki Hill 1:00:13

Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Tom? What's on your mind?

Tom Parkin 1:00:17

Well, uh, I am heaving polls. That's kind of a lot of people to heave. Yeah, I know. Actually, I'm very specific. I'm I am heaving polls who use decimal points and and put polsters who are giving us a lot of spin, spin that they know is is spin. Um if a pollster measures, say, the federal liberals at 41% one month and the next month it's 42%, it is absolutely absurd for them to put in a press release saying the liberals have gained one point and ramble on about like re- here's my analysis of why. That's just fun fact, given polls' margins of error, we can draw no conclusions about a change of one point for anything. So for all we know in the example I just gave, maybe the actual support went down a point or two. We really don't know. It was all within the margin of error. And and certainly, you know, some sort of explanation about why party X or Party Y went up or down a point, like save it. You're making yourself look, uh frankly, uh, dumb. Um and if we can't do that.

Nikki Hill 1:01:23

Even insulting some pollsters, Tom.

Tom Parkin 1:01:26

I know. Okay. And if we can't well, I feel like it's actually insulting to me as a poll user when people, you know, try and and tell me that, you know, going up one point is because you know, Doug Ford did this. It's like, no, you we don't even know that he did go up one point, so give it a rate. Um and if we can't be sure that a rating of 42 is actually higher than a rating of 41, then like Nick Nanos is the one on this one that drives me nuts. He reports things like, oh, they're at 41.1%. Like, that is just nonsense. Um it is nonsense for pollsters to put out a press release with decimals or to make claims about a single point move. That's just that is entirely spin. Uh and part two, Nikki, while I'm talking about this, it is nonsense for reporters to uncritically reproduce decimal data or unsupportable claims about polling data. Just to kind of write down what a pollster puts on their purse release about how a party went up or a party went down by one point because we don't even know that they did go up or down. So leave the because out. And because you're supposed to be a real journalist and an expert, uh, you should not be reporting that. Um, but you know, some days it just feels like uh reporters just will write down whatever B uh whatever BS in a box, if it has a bow on it, you know, like they'll just write her up. Um so okay. I'm not in the camp that believes that polling is fake news. I I don't believe that whatsoever. But if I did a survey, Nikki, that said there were between 40 and 45 people in the room and then reported that uh it's actually exactly 42 or 42.1 in the room, um, that would be for fake news. Like that would be fake. Um and it would be um it would be fake if some reporter just wrote it down that you know Tom Parking did a survey and found that there were 42 people in the room. No, I didn't say that. It the data actually says between 40 and 45. Okay. So um like we should all just pull it back on the polsters, ask them to give us the numbers, look at long-term trends. That's what's useful. And what bothers me is uh the pollsters and political reporters who know that that's what they should be doing, but give us this nonsense anyway. So there we go. Uh side note, you know, we do we do know this. We all know this. So really what they're burning is their own credibility over time. And I honestly, I don't want to see that. I don't want to see media or pollsters uh start to be eaten up with the cynicism that they that they create.

Nikki Hill 1:04:08

Well, we'll see which polls we're in the listening uh list for that pick up on you've got your your nerd love for land use planning for me and the rant from Tom for the week as we wrap up.

Tom Parkin 1:04:22

Um Yes, well, 42%, 42.1% of of me is happy with this episode so far.

Nikki Hill 1:04:29

So see, we're not turfing that decimal point yet.

Tom Parkin 1:04:32

That's wow.

Nikki Hill 1:04:34

Uh before we close, and and knowing who is listening to our show, I think uh an important acknowledgement as well. We wanted to acknowledge someone whose passing has had a tremendous impact on the labor movement across the country and especially in BC this week, who is former BCGU president Stephanie Smith. We know from who our listeners are and what they tell us they're listening to, that you're all feeling this very closely in your hearts this week. And for those that didn't know Steph, she was an early childcare educator, an activist from the ground who became the first woman elected as the president of the BCGU, which is uh has a large number of women. So at this point, she's the only woman who was elected to be president of the GU and it's a hundred-year history. So a trailblazer, a trailblazer for women across the country in the labor movement who have come after her. And she was also a friend, a deeply compassionate, a funny human, a wise human who touched many people. And so her loss this week is being heavily felt. And I know with um our demographics that uh she will be honored forever, and we're really grateful to have the opportunity to speak to her. So that's how we're gonna wrap up this week with it with a toast to Steph Smith. But you can email us at left east to west at gmail.com. Let us know what you are loving or heaving or looking at this week, and then tap that follow button on your favorite podcast channel to get reminders for upcoming interviews because we're still gonna keep going throughout the summer. Thanks for joining us in our six-month review and some rants and some tributes and some nerding out. Have a great week, Tom.

Tom Parkin 1:06:16

All right, we'll do you two.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Thanks for joining Left East to West with hosts Nikki Hill and Tom Parker. We love to hear your comments, ratings, follows, and shares. It helps people find us. To become a Left East to West community member and to help us reach even more Canadians, subscribe using the link in the show notes. You can watch us on YouTube or listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Just search for Left East to West and subscribe. I'm Doug Hamilton signing off for Left East to West. We'll see you next week.