Candidate on the doorstep

Shannon Devine joins us to talk about her doorstep experience as the NDP's candidate in the April 2025 general election and the August 2026 by-election in Beaches-East York. Shannon talks about the different strategic conditions, the improvement in volunteers, what voters want to talk about on the doorstep, and how she tried to get voters to engage.

Also, Nikki reflects on recent comments from the prime minister that revealed the Canadian military has developed plans for a Trump invasion. Tom digs into the Quebec election and how the "reasonable accommodation" debate that all parties have toyed with is now fueling a culture war from the Quebec Conservative Party.

Transcript

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Tom Parkin 0:10

Welcome to Left East to West with me, Tom Parkin.

Nikki Hill 0:12

And me, Nikki Hill. We have Shannon Devine with us today. Shannon was the federal MVP candidate in the recent beaches East York by-election, but also the candidate in the same writing in the 2025 general election. We thought it'd be interesting to talk to Shannon about what she heard on the doorstep, what she saw from volunteers and ground game and growth, and also get some tips from her for candidates as we have multiple jurisdictions in elections right now across the country, including here in BC and Ontario local government. And so Shannon will generously provide some of her insights on what she just went through. But before we get to Shannon, let's get to Below the Fold.

Tom Parkin 1:02

Nikki, on Friday morning, Ontario Premier Doug Ford announced he was calling an emergency cabinet meeting to determine how his plan to protect Ontario was working. And all I could think was, you know, what plan? We in Ontario have never seen a plan or strategy from this PC government on jobs or the economy. On the contrary, we've seen a lot of hypocrisy as he talks about by Canadian, but then does big deals with U.S. companies. We have unemployment at nearly 7%, higher than most other provinces, higher than BC, rising deficit, revenues that won't support future healthcare and education, according to the Financial Accountability Office, and a government really without a plan or really kind of a care. And I'm wondering, Nikki, um in the context of what your your election now in British Columbia, are voters taking seriously enough the situation we are in and the need to have a plan uh to to address the economic warfare that we've been attacked with. What do you think?

Nikki Hill 2:05

Yeah, it's it's certainly a hot topic this week, and not just in the context of of the BC election, which we we can chat about for sure. Um I mean, something that really stuck out for me this week in terms of a plan and a response, because we are in a trade war. You know, I think the if you turn on the news, everything we've been dealing with in the past few weeks have been surrounded about how we deal with the fact that the Americans have taken this position against us. And, you know, we we get up and we see pretty on a pretty regular basis right now, these indications of not just a trade war, but pretty erratic statements going on, you know, continuous basis, but it really ramped up from Donald Trump and his administration. So, you know, something that jumped out to me in terms of thinking about a plan for all jurisdictions uh is actually something that I think, you know, would have been a nightmare, is a nightmare scenario and is definitely a concern for folks like myself and others who live so close to the border and wouldn't have been a consideration just 18 months ago or so when Trump came in. And so I think that was something that jumped out, uh, but I wanted to chat about this week is that in an interview the other day with the New York Times, Prime Minister Carney did reveal that the federal government had had examined what he called the extreme risk of US military action against Canada coming out of those repeated comments from the US president, largely around that 51st state, going back into being in a trade war and just really, I think, the casual way in which they they throw out threats to us these days. So, you know, Carney really stressed here that an invasion is not a likely scenario, but that's, and I think this is the key here, going back to your question and thinking about the BC election as well, is it's arguing that leaders have a responsibility because we have put them into those roles to prepare for those unlikely events that would have enormous consequences if they happened. So, you know, risk management that we elect governments to take care of us for, which is really the key point. So, you know, as a nightmare scenario it may seem, and certainly, you know, I chat with friends who are, you know, learned about that, maybe thinking about renewing their passports if they've got citizenship opportunities in other countries, because it does feel like a real threat when we when we see some of these indications of the change in that relationship. But I think, you know, Carney's not saying that Canada's been expecting American tanks to roll across the border tomorrow. But what he is saying, and I think that's what we are mirroring in here as well in BC, now that we're into an election cycle, is that when you're a prime minister or a leader, your job is to think about the scenarios that are most people would actually just rather dismiss outright and you know, legitimately not think about it all because they are concerning or because, you know, it's not their job in their day to think about that sort of risk mitigation. So, you know, you got to think about the things that might be the the ultimate catastrophe and then hope it's not happening. So I think this is, you know, an important point as well. And it's coming up a fair bit already. We're just uh not even a week into the BC election, is the job of governments that we elect them for is to plan for disasters and emergencies. You know, you say that there is no plan in Ontario. BC government came up with an economic plan pretty quick out the gate, I think, in after Trump was elected. Yeah. Yeah, the LaQuest plan. And so I think, you know, for years, it never would have been thought for us that the US could be a threat to our sovereignty. Those weren't things that we had to imagine. We were allies, partners, neighbors, family members, right? But as we know, and as we talked about on the show and had guests on, with our economies being so deeply integrated, we've actually assumed that relationship probably becomes closer over time. But as we're seeing that Canadians are absorbing when we talk about it in public domain polls, and we talk about it in in actually probably on the doorstep as folks are having conversations now, is that kind of assumption about our relationship has been really shaken. We are in a trade war. That is actually a fairly recent development. It really does change, I think, the way that we see that escalation from the US, that that threat, and that continued, you know, joke, which doesn't look like much of a joke many days about Canada becoming that 51st state. So I think um what we also saw this week is that Canadians do think the government is on the right side of the trade war debate, taking those steps forward. Even Americans seem to think Canada's on the right page here, in the right and response, being responsive to the Trump administration. So putting into BC, you know, here we are in election campaign, and Premier David EB has made Trump a regular part of his campaign message and talking about why an early election was needed in that context. And so I think that feeling of being, you know, I often think about, you know, those leaders who went down to the states like EB did. And we had Aileen Machel on our show really early talking about that Washington, D.C. trip that they first took as well, really, I think, to have taken the threat from Trump and his administration quite seriously, right? So when Eevee's out on the campaign trail, he is tying in Trump a fair bit. It's interesting because he's getting a bit of pushback from the media and so on saying, you know, what's changed since your administration came in? And the reality is the current government of VC was elected just a couple months before the Trump administration came in, has, you know, pivoted their strategies and some of their priorities since. But also, again, in the last few weeks, we've found ourselves in this uncertain trade war that is really impacting BC industries. And so trying to get some of that away from that economic uncertainty and having a slim majority government, just one seat going into the legislature, that constant dynamic where your government could fall going into session, um, which was supposed to happen October 5th, that now has been pushed off, you know, doesn't create, I think, the sort of certainty that EB is trying to create the case that British Columbians want as we navigate this very new to us still and uncertain relationship that has pivoted dramatically. It's had its peaks and valleys and all over the place in the last almost two years. So I think that's why Carney's comments really landed as well in this timing. You know, it's not saying that Canada thinks that we're going to be invaded soon. The headline is really that the prime minister, as a leader should, is felt really compelled to consider it. He hasn't been out there in the public talking about it. I think he was pressed a little bit to answer the question. But that really does tell us how much the political environment's changed because we would have never said that a couple of years ago. We would have just laughed that off. But now we're in a state where those plans are something that, you know, the prime minister felt it would be irresponsible not to examine the scenarios. So I think that's sort of what we, you know, go through the the next few weeks or I guess a month of the BC election. I think when we're talking about um leaders looking at those risks, they are talking about what I think the public understands is our relationship with the US is no longer as predictable as it was. And that leaders, including David Eby, need to make sure their jurisdictions are prepared for those scenarios. So, you know, prepare for the worst and hope for the best and hope that they we don't have great hash to live those scenarios. But I think, you know, where we're really seeing and and what the public may probably respond to, I think, in some of this, this, these leaders is the fact that they are seriously looking at how we prepare. So interesting questions coming up right now because I think, you know, it is pretty sobering moment when we realize that those preparations have been underway and sought, but also I think, you know, the comfort that um a lot of voters need right now.

Tom Parkin 9:52

Well, if you don't plan, you're unprepared.

Nikki Hill 9:55

That's the risk.

Tom Parkin 9:57

And if you don't and I think part of the issue in the year election is you've got an opposition that is, you know, not is is themselves unprepared. Uh they they they couldn't possibly have a plan. And that's, you know, that's a choice. That's a choice that people in British Columbia will have to look at, whether they want a government without a plan or one with. You know, they may have to be.

Nikki Hill 10:32

How about you, Tom? What do you take looking that we can look at?

Tom Parkin 10:35

Uh well, there's another general election going on uh in Quebec. And the election day is Monday, October the 5th. I wanted to just touch on it because I think there's some interesting themes in this election that people elsewhere can relate to. Uh for a long time, since the PQ's first win in 1976, Quebec politics was like a duopoly. It was the Quebec Parti Québeccois and the Liberals. Um for four 35 years it continued on like that. But in 2007, a guy named Mario Dumont, he had the Action Democratic Quebec ADQ, um, had a third-party breakthrough, uh, going from four seats to 41 seats, bouncing the PQ to third place and holding the Liberals to a minority. So this is a real change in the pattern. Uh and the hot burning fuel for the ADQ was identity politics of the right, uh, the issue of so-called reasonable accommodation, a way of talking about kneecabs and turbans, of patrolling who could wear what and where, and obsessing about non-Christian religions and race. This was this was kind of a new thing, uh, and it uh got some attention. In contrast, the the PQ was created as a social democratic party, and its separatism was largely due to the belief that uh that the Quebec left had that a social democratic Quebec was impossible within a federal uh country dominated by liberals and conservatives. And and the Quebec liberals generally avoided contesting the PQ over social democracy. They they actually a funny story. My my wife was at a reception that Jean Charret was also at and and got introduced to him uh with the with the with the little add-on that, oh, and this is you know my our our my friend who's uh uh an NDPer. And without missing a beat, Jean Charret said to her, well, in Quebec we're us, we're all socialists. Now, obviously he's being a bit playful, um, but it was very true that the Quebec liberals had some very some some very pro uh solid social democrats in their caucus, but they were Federalists. That was the deciding line. The the the liberals, the federal liberals, uh sorry, the provincial liberals generally did not attack unions or go into this privatization of healthcare stuff. Um so the ADQ brought this new feature. Then it melted away in one election, and uh the PQ liberal situation re-emerged. Um, but as the ADQ melted, that identity politics it washed into other parties. The Chirae liberals tried to grab control over it with a high-profile commission on reasonable accommodation, then passed legislation to restrict the rights of people uh with jobs that carried some state authority. So could they legislative that or they wanted to legislate that um you know, police officers, uh judges, prison guards, people of that sort who have so-called state authority jobs should not be allowed to wear any religious uh evidence of religious symbolism. Well, the thing about identity politics is you can draw bright, solid lines in the abstract, but they don't really work in uh reality. So the PQ, of course, they wanted to add teachers. Why they wanted to add social workers, they wanted to add healthcare workers, they wanted to make this net wider and capture more people whose rights would get restricted. Maybe bus drivers, you know. Uh why not? Why not why why not anybody who works in the public sector? So this is a context of turmoil about these issues that can't really be resolved. Um, and uh CAQ kind of emerges in this moment. Um the PQ tried to grab this uh rolling ball um to capture the smoke for themselves. They they pushed a charter of Quebec values, and it looked like uh Pauline Meroy would get a solid majority when she called an election in 2014. But and this is um, I think a key piece of the story about what happened. Um she introduced her star candidate uh early in the election campaign, and this caused a storm. The candidate was Pierre Carr, Pierre Carl Pelleot. He was the CEO of Quebec Or, owner of Sun Newspapers at one time, uh, a right-winger by all accounts, very anti-union, and this was allegedly the Social Democratic Party, the PQ, uh calling this guy a star. And so the backlash from Social Democrats and the labor movement against the PQ, against Merois, was was harsh. And uh she lost the election. Charay got back in. Uh so at that time, Quebec Solidaire. Surprisingly enough, or not, Quebec Solidaire starts to emerge as an alternative on the left. So now we're up to four parties. We got the CAQ, the Liberals, the PQ, and now Quebec Solidaire uh beginning to get some traction. Uh the whole system began to really, the old system broke down. CAQ wins, of course, in 2020, uh sorry, 2018, and then again in 2022. But then a kind of interesting thing happens. They also um they also could not kind of bring this debate about um you know religious um acceptance about uh about reasonable accommodation. They could not bring that debate to a stop. And uh the in the 2022 election, a new political force emerged. Now the fifth, the Quebec conservatives, who entered the debate calling for what they called civilizational compatibility. That's pretty uh wild stuff to me. Uh they took 13% of the vote in 2022 and they did not win a seat. So this is all the context of this rolling ball of identity politics, of culture war, of this stuff that's rolling around and cannot be stopped. Uh of course, now what's happened is that the CAQ has become incredibly unpopular. Uh Lego left. Um that now conservative nationalism was up for grabs for s for somebody to try and take, and of course, the one position to take it was this uh new force, the Quebec conservatives. Uh so this really brings us up to present time and where this conservative nationalism ends up. Uh and in that I think that's a f uh a key piece, not the only piece. Healthcare's big in this, obviously, uh, but it is a key piece in this debate. Replacing Lego with French hat definitely pumped up the CAQ for a little bit at PQ expense. Um but since the campaign started, the air has been leaking out from the CAQ. Uh they've fallen from about 20 to 25 to 20 percent during the course of the campaign. But that flow has not been back to the PQ. That flow has been to the Quebec conservatives, who are now up to about 17 percent uh from 13 percent early in the summer. So five parties now. Uh and the likelihood is um PQ of some sort. Some people are saying they could there could be a PQ majority with as little as 30 percent of the vote because of five parties and the first past the post. This is the British Labour Party, one with a massive victory with 34 percent. Um and the the CIQ has this real problem of of a vote distribution. They have 20 percent on the latest polls, but uh uh very likely to come second in a lot of places and win almost nowhere. Uh so uh the question uh uh sorry, you should add, the flip is true for the Quebec conservatives. Their vote is heavily concentrated in the Quebec City region, so uh probably with the density even at 18 percent, 17 percent, to win a f maybe quite a few seats and be the uh at least the third party. So I I think this is all like the the question here now is like what happens next? So likely a PQ minority. What happens with this conservative nationalism that has made its way through? You know, it was it was uh it was created by the ADQ, it was courted by the Liberals, it was uh supported by the PQ and nursed and fed by the PQ. The CAQ tried to bring it to a ground, they couldn't, and now this this this kind of virus in the system has been captured by the Conservatives. So how the other parties after this election deal with this new conservative force and this more you know, this this strain gets more and more virulent as it heads further and further right, um, I think could be interesting for all of us in Canada as we think about the far right in your province, Nicky, which is certainly there, we saw it. The far right that is active within the UCP. Um, and how are how are we to try to how do people try and end this? If we isolate it, uh if we try and not talk about it, does that work? Or is that just let it grow? We don't know, but we'll get some we'll we'll see some uh we'll see some examples of people making various efforts in in Quebec after this election. So it'll be very interesting, I think, to keep an eye on the development of this this theme.

Nikki Hill 20:11

Yeah, and we'll see some lessons in DC or on culture where it's gonna be interesting. I think, you know, in in the first week of the campaign, basic conservatives making a conscious effort to, and the degree where like the deputy campaign managers on Twitter saying act normal, everybody, right? And they're trying to lean into more center right um messaging, but still we'll have candidates who believe very strongly in what we're seeing on that national push for you must maintain the culture war as as the focus here, folks. So we'll see. I think you know, it's a long campaign ahead. We'll also see here if how where culture war um concepts in the national conservative debate play a role because there's a couple candidates coming in uh who won't have been maintaining that are in the national media, like Carolyn Elliott, who's rumored to be running for the BC conservatives as well, but has, you know, recently been back in in the media talking about the importance of culture war. So, you know, lots lots for us to learn and and uh as through all those campaigns as well.

Tom Parkin 21:09

Well, somebody that needs to find out a way of getting these guys um, you know, put in the corner. Um maybe you guys in BC can figure that one out for us and uh the rest of the country will uh or maybe you won't. I don't know. It's maybe they will in Quebec. Maybe they will in Alberta. We'll talk more about that. But it is a problem, you know? Big problem. Big problem. All right. Well, let's take a quick break, and then Nikki and I are gonna be right back with uh Shannon Devine. Talk about her her by-elections and uh electoral success. Thanks.

Nikki Hill 21:50

Welcome to Left East to West, Shannon. Thanks so much for joining us. Yeah, we're glad to have you here. This is great timing. Um so great. Time in because you have just been on a lot of doorsteps listening to a lot of Toronto voters. You were the NDP's candidate in the Toronto Writing of Beeches East York in the February 2025 general, and then recently again in the by-election. So fresh experience out on the door. And uh that's an interesting, I think, comparative political study you can bring in that we're we're excited to have you join us to talk about. But before we dive too far into talking about some of the campaign, can we talk a bit about the change in results? So, what's the federal voting history? So we're left east to west, so and and I'm British Columbian, so it's helpful to recent our level set here for our not just me, but our listeners too. What's the voting history in Beaches East York and how much did the NDP vote improve in the by-election?

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Okay, thank you. So I'm delighted to be here, first of all. And the voting history in Beaches East York federally does oscillate between NDP and liberal. It has been liberal the last 11 years. Uh, prior to that, for one term it was NDP and then liberal and then NDP before that. So we we kind of go back and forth, um, predominantly liberal lately, but it is a riding that does change. So it is not it is not um grand uh grand illusions on our part to think that we could win it. Um so in this last by-election, uh, it was we were able to increase the vote share by 19 points in a four-week election cycle. So, I mean, part of that was because the election in 2025 was so terrible. Um so that was abnormally low, but also that result was better than we've had in years and years and years. And that was only in four weeks. And I think we would have done even better if we would have had six weeks, if we would have had eight weeks, if we would have had three months, I'm certain we would have won because of the reception that we were getting on the doors. That's great.

Nikki Hill 24:03

Kudos to you as the candidate to putting yourself out there and getting that result. Thank you.

Tom Parkin 24:07

Yeah. That's an interesting question about the timing. We should maybe touch on that in a bit, you know, whether longer runaway would have been would have made the difference and how could that happen? But just a little bit more background on the writing. So Beach is East York, conservatives never win. Generally a liberal seat, but sometimes the NDP can get it in a in a good tide. Um but uh despite the uh the it being safely non-conservative, did you hear a lot of strategic voting thinking, if we can call it that, um, in the general election? Did that dissipate in the by-election? Like how much of an effect did you like this has obviously been a lot of disgust in the context of what happened in 2025? What's your sense about about that effect?

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Right. In the general election, the um the strategic voting was terrible. It was uh just right across the country, anywhere that doesn't vote conservative, doesn't go between conservative and another party. It was just, it just decimated us. And I know that that was the case um in Partei High Park where you live, Tom. Yeah, um in many other places of the country, particularly the the urban ridings, right? And so that was something we were hearing on the doors all the time. Um, and it wasn't that people were concerned about electing a conservative um necessarily in their riding. They, well, they were concerned about it, but they were just concerned about not electing a liberal. They didn't want a conservative head of government. So it wasn't that they well, in in the riding where I um was running, that I ran the last two times, um, the previous liberal, uh Nathaniel Erskine Smith, was very popular. So that is important to know. Um, at the time of the election, he was the housing minister. It was short-lived, but he was the housing minister for his election cycle. So I think we know how that story went there. But um, anyways, um, so that was a factor as well. But people were really concerned about electing a conservative government, and so that's why they weren't voting NDP, which was really unfortunate.

unknown 26:08

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 26:09

Can I just poke that one forward? So is the logic there that they're actually kind of voting against the NDP because they want to secure the liberal, even though they know it's a strong liberal seat and the conservatives never win.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

It feels like it. It feels like it. But by contrast, this election, this by-election, it was very much about the local representative. People, a lot of people, we just didn't get to them in time, you know? And I think that there was a real sentiment to elect a strong local representative who can um speak on behalf of the area and actually take people's concerns to Ottawa. And I think that that accounts for the increase in the vote share. And we are just gonna keep at it. That's great.

Nikki Hill 26:52

Because we're not that far from a general election. We're engaged as organizers. We know they're always around the corner. Or who knows? Here we are in TC. We were supposed to be two years away and we're in uh week one of a provincial election campaign. So it's my corner.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

I have to tell you, Nikki, um, I I just love being in an election every single year, a federal election every single year. So it's so far 2025, 2026. Can't wait to do this in 2027. Yeah.

Nikki Hill 27:20

Yeah. I I was director of organization in BC when we had the minority Martin government years. So we we were at that point, the federal and provincial party couldn't could a lot more fluidly before a lot of the rules changed. So I flipped between provincial and federal cycles pretty much every year for years. And there's definitely benefits though to that. It's exhausting. Um, but there's benefits to that. And I think one of them actually was on the ground game. And and particularly because when we were doing that, sort of in that after um Jack came in as leader and we were really rebuilding, and we were still rebuilding in BC after the 2001 provincial government loss as well in that election. So, you know, that that ground game was really critical. And I think um that having actually a number of elections sort of year over year was beneficial for us rebuilding that strength in local campaigns and volunteer base and and bringing people back along after, you know, a pretty devastating loss in 01 provincially. So, you know, let's talk about the ground game. So, yeah, I mean, I have um I always led the ground game from having been director of organization for so long. Um, and I think um, and that included through a lot of federal elections. So I'm always looking at things, you know, how were volunteers in the campaign? Did you get more people out in the by-election?

SPEAKER_03 28:38

We got a lot more people out, even though there were the provincial by-elections, even though the municipal elections were already underway uh here in Toronto, um, all right across Ontario, and of course in other um parts of the country too. Um we did. We got we got hundreds of people out. And on election day, we had 100 people sign up. We had two 200 people show up, which was amazing. And that was our experience over and over again. We um had more people come out than we even expected. And so part of that was the uh the recent um leadership um competition, the leadership um change at the the federal level. And that has really re-energized the party. Um and we also have hundreds of new members and Beach is the historic alone. Uh so that was really fantastic to see some of those people coming out and to connect with them for the first time.

Nikki Hill 29:35

Yeah, there is some benefit to going from signing a membership to actually having something you can do, like an election, right? Yeah.

Tom Parkin 29:42

Did Abby made a few stops there as well? And, you know, so he brought some folks in and I I assume it helped you find people, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Yeah, yeah. Um our leader, Avi Lewis, was in town um well first for the campaign launch, which was so great. And then he was in town for the advanced polls. So he was in town canvassing with us for four days straight. And people just loved beating him. It was fantastic.

Tom Parkin 30:05

We want to get him. We want to meet him, yeah, sure, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Um what was what was your campaign's message uh to voters in this by-election? And uh did you feel like it was looking back on it now, do you think that was the message, that was the right message, or wasn't a better message? Or do you think, mm, you know, maybe we could have tried something else, it would have worked better? What what are you thinking people are looking for in an in an you know, obviously you're running to be an opposition progressive MP.

unknown 30:32

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 30:33

What what are people looking for? What is the message you want to hear from?

SPEAKER_03 30:35

I think people I think the message that was working on the doors was that we're talking about sending a local representative to Ottawa on your behalf. And people that really seemed to resonate. Um, and it was helped by the fact that we in Toronto we had the issue around the Billy Bishop Island Airport expansion, which is huge for the whole city of Toronto. Um, but also during that fight, we didn't hear from any of the liberal MPs, um, including ministers in Toronto the entire time. And so people knew that, they had it in their mind, and all you had to do was talk to them about that. Like, why did we have to fight so hard when we have ministers who are based here in Toronto and you know, not representing us, not representing the needs of the city. So uh that was top of mind for people and also um just feeling like the cost of living crisis is getting worse all the time. Affordable housing is none to be found. I mean, our our mayor, Olivia Chow, is doing a great job trying to increase those affordable housing units, but it's slow. And the federal government hasn't done anything meaningful about it for about 30 years.

Nikki Hill 31:53

So let's talk a little bit about some of the local political dynamics though. And I think Tom is very diligent telling us about what Nate Erskine Smith is doing at different points. I try to keep people. It amuses me.

Tom Parkin 32:05

He's running for city council now. I know. Somebody joke that he's gonna run for school board next or something.

Nikki Hill 32:10

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 32:11

But anyway.

Nikki Hill 32:13

So one of the ideas though, and I saw that certainly in the in the messaging across the country too, was the expansion of the island airport issue. The other one was, of course, the the former NP and the turmoil and the Ontario Liberals that that came out around that. What else? What do you what did you pick up about some of those issues that the voters were caring about?

SPEAKER_03 32:31

I think those were really important issues for people. And then also just the fact that they don't feel like they're being listened to. They don't feel like they're being heard. Uh, the government is extremely top-down now, uh, the Mark Carney government, and they don't they feel like they're being taken for granted. They feel like their vote is being taken for granted, they feel like their concerns are being ignored. And even though uh Beaches East York people think of it as a very wealthy area, it's not really. It is there is a huge um divide between um income brackets and people are feeling really pinched, you know, and they're not feeling that the government is doing anything. And then we also have provincially um a provincial government in Doug Ford that meddles extensively in the city of Toronto. So they're feeling like who is in their corner? Not the federal government and not the provincial government.

Tom Parkin 33:34

So it's almost like the airport and the turmoil in the liberals. It's it's not almost it's it's not like those are the issues themselves, but they represent a greater problem, which is like That's right. You know, and I I hate to sound like this because the rest of you in Canada are gonna go like that's crazy, Tom. But Toronto voters do not get listened to. We do not. We send a bunch of liberals, the Red Army chorus, um, we're gonna believe you out here in BC. And and and they say what they want. They don't say what we want.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 34:02

And that's that's you know, how do we break that?

SPEAKER_03 34:04

Yeah. Um, it's a that's a really interesting point, and that is why we had a number of former liberal voters actually out campaigning for us, volunteering on our campaign, like making calls, um, getting donations, things like that. And we haven't seen that. I have I've been working on campaigns in Beaches, East York for 11 years, and that was honestly the first time I'd ever seen that. And I was delighted by it. And some of those people are still, I'm still in touch with them, and they're contacting me, and we're gonna meet for coffee, and we're we're gonna get this.

Nikki Hill 34:36

So which is interesting because we actually see a fair bit of federal liberal uh volunteering the past few years on the provincial here in BC. And I think we'll see it again during this provincial campaign as well, as well as candidates and others. So it is like as we go by provinces, I think where federal liberals and new democrat volunteers are crossing over is is actually becoming a bit of a trend on some of the provincial side as well. That's interesting. Interesting watch. Yeah.

Tom Parkin 35:02

The f the federal liberals are really uh the liberals are really a federal party at this point. I mean, they you know, you don't have liberals really in BC, none in Alberta, none in Saskatchewan.

Nikki Hill 35:11

We have many parties now in BC talk.

Tom Parkin 35:14

But I don't think anyone calls themselves a liberal. Anyway, my point is just you know, if you're a federal liberal, what are you supposed to do provincially? Um it's not that clear. Anyway. Um so that's an interesting dynamic. And uh something else I think that you might have some insight on, uh Shannon, is you've worked in the labor movement a fair bit. You know a lot about it. I uh it's hard to connect labor activists to writing activism in such a big city. Um thoughts about how successful you were able to be in that zone or ideas for the future to make things make bigger impact for labor?

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yeah. I think in a four-week election cycle it is hard to do that kind of organizing. You have to just pull the people you already know or that have some familiarity with the campaign, or you or the NDP. Um, I think that's work that needs to happen in the non-election um parts of the years, and we will be doing that for sure. Uh, we did have a very successful labor campus. It was one of the biggest ones, and then we had labor activists coming out quite regularly to help with the campaign and people from right across the country. Like sometimes there was someone who was visiting a relative um in Toronto, and so they would come over to the campaign. Uh, we had friends that we know from the NDP from Montreal that came in, uh, which was really cute. And um that was happening all the time. But to your question about labor, I think it's an engagement that needs to be happening more regularly. Uh, there was a change that was made to the constitution in terms of the riding association um bylaws to have um a labor, I think one or two specific labor spots on all of the riding associations. So that was something that I um pushed actually and and circulated. And it was something I felt very strongly about. I've worked in the labor movement for 20 years. And I think that we need to have labor spots just like we do on the other bodies, we need to have them at the writing level because those are the people that you're gonna want to um task and say, okay, you're our labor rep and you're we're gonna work with you to like bring people in to have to have those um conversations and to make sure it's meaningful for people. Yeah, absolutely.

Nikki Hill 37:31

Yeah, I love that structure. Okay, so a big question I'm gonna throw also one in for you that I'm pretty confident you can handle. Um, so one question are you planning to run again?

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Oh, yeah, yes, yes, I am. Sorry about that. Okay, so I'm definitely planning to run again because it could be any time, first of all. We know now, right? Um, but I am definitely planning to run again. Uh we are gonna be working at it um or we're gonna get back up at it probably next month. Or we might wait till after the municipal elections, just so we're getting people out to help with those. But um, we will be ramping back up.

Nikki Hill 38:12

Okay, and then the other question, um, and yeah, and as you say, I mean, even last week there were some weird rumors coming up about a potential snap federal election as well. So we're like, you it could anything could happen these days. But so then I just want to hear a little bit from you on two things. One, what you think it will take to win for yourself, but also knowing that you know BC's not the only cycle of elections going on right now. You know, you just said Ontario has local government. We have local government as well here in BC. We have Quebec, we have all these other elections going on. What are your tips for candidates who are out there um exploring how to trying to win and do what you just uh achieved in terms of getting volunteers and their ground game going? What would you tell them to do right now?

SPEAKER_03 38:56

I think consider who your people are and consider what your own network looks like and who who is there and then who who um is in their networks. You know, you're kind of branching out. If you have time to do that, that's the thing you need to do. Um if you if you're in a four-week election cycle, like we just were there, you just do whatever you can and get as many people in the door as you can. Just try to get as many people in the door if you have a campaign office, get them in the door and get them get them back out the door to canvas. I I sometimes we hear that canvassing is out of date, or if we need to be using different strategies. I could not disagree more. I see you uh shaking your head, both of you. Yeah, and it is the most important thing you can do. Talking to people is the most important thing you can do. So if you can try to get more people talking to people. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I think I also think yeah. Oh, sorry, you go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. Um, I think that the the ways that we talk to people needs to be different as well. Um, there's a lot of talk about deep canvassing, but it's the way that I've always canvassed. So it's kind of funny. Um, but it's you're having a conversation with people. You're trying to find out what's on their mind and connect it to what you're doing and then like make a connection because that's how people you move people. You have to connect first.

unknown 40:22

Right.

Nikki Hill 40:22

Well, Shannon, sometimes never out of date because it is that like we are trying to counter misinformation. I think you know, we're really seeing uh we were hearing in Alberta, I was talking to someone working around the referendum where it's like those conversations at the dog park. So I think, yeah, like it's almost having to go back again into those tactics where we're actually in the face of these conversations and not allowing the AI and social media to take over for us, right? That's fair.

Tom Parkin 40:47

Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, um, you know, Shannon, sometimes it's a big problem just to get people to you. You can be you can get the volunteers, you can get them on the doorsteps, you can get knocking on the doors, and you can even get the doors to open. That's all a challenge, huge challenge. But then to get people to talk to you, to to actually say something more than I don't know. I I haven't thought of it, right? Did you find any was there something in particular that seemed to work for you and your canvases on the doorstep that provoked people to say, yeah, I do have something I'd like to say?

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Yeah. Um, I usually say, Well, I because we are canvassing so much, and because I just ran in the election last year, I still had all of that information in my mind. But what I say is, well, some of your neighbors are mentioning these things. And and then they'll start to think, like, oh, actually, yeah, that. Or I'll say something like, for example, in Beaches East York, we have an aging population as well, more so than other ridings in the city. And so I'll say, you know, we haven't, as you know, like especially if it's someone older, as you know, we have an aging population here. So that's why I'm really um advocating for healthcare, like head-to-toe healthcare, and we need to be investing more deeply in that. And that's also a job creator if we're concerned about the economy, you know, things like that. Um just try to like, just try to open it up however you can, you know, and yeah, um just just keep. I sometimes it's just you're trying, you're kind of going through your mental Rolodex of what concerns might be. And then once you do it a few times, you're kind of like, okay, well, this is the street they're on, this is the neighborhood. I see a kid's bike, I see no, they're gonna be concerned about schools, they're gonna be concerned about childcare, those kinds of things. You're just like kind of watching around you how it's going on.

Tom Parkin 42:36

Have kind of a few ideas in your mind and look for look for the cute.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

Yeah, and then a hot tip that I would like to pass along. Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

No, no, please.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

A hot tip I would like to pass along is if you're gonna be canvassing um outside mostly, but even in apartment buildings, bring dog treats. So a canvas with dog treats because especially if you're outside, it's like and you have some dog treats, and so you're talking to people and you're like, oh hey, and you're chatting, you're petting their dog or whatever. Um time. Yeah, more time. Yeah. And also like there's a like a measure of likability in that too. I mean, they're nobody's gonna get vote with dog treats, but you might. Yeah. Yes. I love that.

Nikki Hill 43:18

That is like such a great tip. And I think it's so funny because our dog is now convinced because our landscaper that does our strata always has dog traits for him. And so now he's convinced like every landscaper in the neighborhood has dog treats. So we stop, right, for every single time because he thinks that is what landscaper humans with loud machines do. So yeah, like for candidates, there's a great hot tip for people who are out canvasing, right? Yeah. If you don't mind dogs, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

If you like dogs, who does? Yeah. If you're afraid of them, then don't do that.

Tom Parkin 43:49

Don't do that. Polster, a friend of mine, said uh every every political candidate should be a pet person because pet people like like pet people. And it's just a kind of a natural connection that you Make uh whether it's at the dog part or because you like cats or whatever. Um people are very, you know. But the thing I um just wanted to to to to explore, you know, the the Scarborough Southwest by election provincially, right next door to yours. Yes, their focus was also very local, very much a local candidate talking about the local issues, local problems, and the voice of local people. So that's kind of an interesting connection to what your uh experience was. And is, you know, keep it up, right? If you have the capacity to do something that is on the ground, um but the advantage of personal conversations is you can gauge each one then.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Yeah. Yeah. That was a wonderful campaign. I got out there to Canvas a couple of times.

unknown 44:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

Um and I was out there on election day too, which was three days after the election in Beaches East York. So we're very tired, but um, my whole team was out there, and uh Fatima is just wonderful. Yeah, she's great.

unknown 44:57

Yeah.

Tom Parkin 44:59

Um can I throw one last question at you? Uh but I but it occurred to me partway through. One of the complaints is often being uh that we nominate candidates too late. Um and I was just thinking about your experience. Whether I and I'm not trying to ascribe any blame. I think you know Federal Party is in a situation of uh, you know, some disorder after what happened in uh 2025. But um would it could it have been accelerated and would if if you had just if there'd been like the day that Naterson Smith said he was gone, you know, you were able to get going that weekend, um would that have helped?

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Um I think for anyone who would have been running me or anyone else, I think more time for sure would have been helpful.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

More time.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

Um I yeah, I I just think it would have been helpful. And I think that you're right, when we can have people on the ground earlier and out canvassing, it is just really helpful. I don't, I can't speak to the internal processes on that. I know everyone was doing the best that they could with the resources that were available at the time. But for sure it would be really helpful. And in the next election cycle, I will put my papers in the first available opportunity and just try to get it done because now I've done two four-week election cycles.

Nikki Hill 46:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Or the first one was five weeks, but this one was four weeks because I didn't have the nomination until a week into the election. So we lost our time in the shortest possible election cycle.

Tom Parkin 46:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think there's a lesson in that one. But that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

I think next time I think that the federal party put a ton of resources in as well. And I really appreciated that. And and it meant that it really raised the bar for uh a local campaign in Beaches East to work. People there who had been involved in campaigns for lots of years saw, hey, this is a great campaign.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

This is a good campaign.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

And now we know how to run a great campaign, which is yeah.

Tom Parkin 47:07

Excellent. Well, thanks very much for joining and giving us a uh doorstep view on uh the east side of Toronto anyway, but I think some general insights on you know what it's like to be a candidate, knock on doors, try and connect with people. Um so thank you very much for joining us and sharing that perspective. I think it's really that's always interesting.

Nikki Hill 47:28

Thanks, Shannon. Thank you for having me.

Tom Parkin 47:31

You're very welcome. And so we'll be back in a moment with Love It and Heave It. All right, we'll come to the part of the show we call Love It or Heave It. It's about something that you love and you want to keep, or something that you'd like to heave and forever forget. What are you thinking about this week, Nikki?

Nikki Hill 47:57

Well, I'm giving a big heave as we sit here in an election in BC and so many other jurisdictions, as we know, to personal attacks on candidates, families, and maybe getting ahead of it in the BC campaign. Probably not. Um, it's coming up on municipal municipal campaigns as well already. I'm seeing uh but one thing that's been on my mind this week, of course, as we hear from incumbents who are not running, is talking about that current climate again for politicians and candidates with the increase of disinformation and public attacks, but also those extending over to family. And so one particular MLA in BC, uh former cabinet minister now, or I guess current cabinet minister until it's all over, uh, who's stepping back has actually undergone some of the most brutal smear campaigns on family members that I've seen in my 30 years in politics from the opposition for years. And that includes attacks on literally every member of his family as part of the game. And that's Robbie Callon. So, you know, I just want to say I haven't spoken to him about his decision, and I'm not suggesting this is the reason. I just want to sort of name what we see here in politics because here we are just, you know, not long into the campaign and already seeing that spike of trial online, people really focusing in a in a unnecessary way, I think, on candidates. Robbie's talking about taking time, you know, with his family, with his kid who's grown up with him being in politics. Totally appreciate that. Celebrate that for other friends who have made the same good decisions, really. But I think as other people step into candidate roles, we really need to take a look at how political targeting keeps good people out of politics. Because it is spiking up. So, you know, maybe back to less of a key even more of a Nikki's rant early in the campaign cycle here, not so early in other places, but again, seeing it municipally as well with folks having to push back on how they're being um addressed and and and attacked and feeling some of that that hate and fear online ramping up. But, you know, keep people's families out of politics. Don't increase this already negative discourse by making it personal. So, on my part, a big thanks to Robbie and other retiring MLAs for their years of service and and just uh sorry for what you know politics has become in in many cases, and and so you have to witness that as well. It there are big jobs and people really and their families uh spend a lot of time and and get their dedication to it and don't deserve some of what they receive. What are you thinking about this week, Tom?

Tom Parkin 50:23

Uh well, I was thinking about uh Jeffrey Rath. Uh, and I was I was uh loving something about him. Uh if you recall Jeffrey Rath, he's that I he's that guy, he's the guy who's the leader of uh the Albert I don't know, leader of the Alberta Prosperity Project, the separatist group. He's the kind of like you see pictures of him, the kind of ridiculous looking guy, honestly. Uh, and he's the guy who talked about, you know, going down to the White House and scheming with the Trumpites and et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, the thing I'm loving about him is that I just on Friday saw a poll that ranked a whole bunch of people, approval-disapproval scores who were involved in Alberta politics. And there I saw well, well, well down toward the bottom Jeffrey Rath at minus 13% approval. I thought that's great. But you know what I love just one little bit more is that a couple notches below him was Daniel Smith at minus 18. This is from um, I think this was from that Janet Brown poll that came out on Friday.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Tom Parkin 51:30

Um, and uh it which showed the NDP and the and the UCP tied in popular vote, which I think would mean a win for the NDP based on the way votes work in the writings. Um, it showed um the NDP well ahead in Calgary. Uh well ahead. So suggesting that that Calgary Shaw by-election wasn't uh some sort of freak accident. That was that was a trend line. So anyway, um it's good to see bad people being viewed by others as the bad people there are. I congratulation uh to odders on their good judgment about Mr. Wrath and um Ms. Smith.

Nikki Hill 52:10

You've heard from Tom and me. Email us at leftewest at gmail.com. Let's talk about what you're loving or hating or even who you'd like to see on the show in this busy fall in Canadian politics. Also tap that follow button on your podcast player so that you know when our next episode is uploaded. We've got some great guests coming. And if you want to hear more about the BC election, I joined Balance of Power podcast last week to unpack the first few days with Shannon Phillips and Leah Ward. We had a great chat about all that was going on and the history of just how we actually got here. Tell us a little bit about uh like Shannon and how candidates can um get underway in the campaign and some of our hot tips. Thanks for joining and have a great week, Tom.

Tom Parkin 52:53

Yeah, that's a great podcast to join. I I I listen to it regularly. A lot of tips and insights.

Nikki Hill 52:58

I think it's uh one one of the previous.

Tom Parkin 53:02

Yeah, it's good to see you on that show. Uh well, have a good week this week, and we'll see you uh in a week from now.

Doug Hamilton 53:10

Thanks for joining Left East to West with hosts Nikki Hill and Tom Parker. We'd love to hear your comments, ratings, follows, and shares. It helps people find us. To become a Left East to West community member and to help us reach even more information, subscribe using the link in the show notes. You can watch us on YouTube or the wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Just search for left east to west and subscribe. I'm not coming signing off for left east to west and left east to west.