Episode 15: The Hierarchy of Fat Loss — What Actually Matters Most and in What Order?

Not everything in a fat loss plan is created equal. Some things move the needle. Some things are just noise. And if you're spending your energy on the wrong things, in the wrong order, that's exactly why progress feels harder than it should. 

In this episode of Midlife Musings, we break down the hierarchy of fat loss. What to prioritize first, what comes after, and why so many women spin their wheels by focusing on the wrong things before the right foundations are even in place.

We also get into Andrea's personal fat loss phase that she just started, including the real conversation around whether to start slow or go more aggressive right out of the gate, why the answer depends heavily on how much you have to lose, and how actually to assess whether what you're doing is working, so you're not second guessing yourself every time the scale does something unexpected.

In this episode, we cover:

• The hierarchy of fat loss and what to focus on first for the fastest results
• Andrea's current fat loss phase and what her approach looks like in real time
• When to start slower vs more aggressive based on where you're starting from
• What is needed to see results, depending on how much you have to lose
• Why the approach looks different if you have 10 pounds to lose versus 40
• How to assess your progress so you know when to adjust and when to stay the course

If you found this one useful, make sure you're following Midlife Musings so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Monday.

Connect With Us:

@marcinevin 

@eats_by_dre_nutrition

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So you've been keeping a little secret from us with you didn't even tell me, let alone the listeners. I had to find out about it on your Instagram stories last week. I know.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Now we're gonna make it sound like this is some big life secret. No, yeah. Okay, so I decided to go into I'm calling it a mini cut just because it's just gonna be a short get-in, get out fat loss phase for myself. So yes. And part of it was, I think I was just telling you, um, I was kind of back and forth. Do I really want to do this? Do I not? Because it's been a while. I haven't dieted since 2024.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Um but I remember the last time you did. I also remember when you were in a bulking phase. I think that's when I met you. Yeah. Okay, let's be real here. This is my opinion. You may think otherwise, I find bulking way more challenging than fat loss. Absolutely. Mentally, physically, all the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

My bulk was I don't want to say torture, but kind of. And I know that just sounds like come on, Andrea, give me a break. Like eating was so hard. It is, and especially because I had a coach and it wasn't a free-for-all. It wasn't like Andrea, just eat 3,500 calories. It was like be as strategic with that food as possible, which meant I'm not eating like burgers and pizza and burritos. Like at some point, a lot of rice is less a lot of rice. And um, I think you also like just timing of meals got more important because you don't want to come to the end of the day and be like, oh my god, I have a thousand calories. Like, what do I do? Um, and then overriding your full signals, like at some point you are overriding that, and when you're doing that with mostly whole foods, I'm not gonna say that I ate perfectly because I never do. Um, that was tough. Like it just was uncomfortable. And then, of course, yes, mentally just gaining weight is not not fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Did I tell you the story about my purposeful bulk? About who's that, 2017. Okay, so I was dating a guy at the time who was a competitive power lifter. I think I've talked about him on this episode before. I know I've talked about it on my other podcasts. This man could squat a thousand pounds, 800. He was huge. When we met, I think he weighed around 220, 230. He eventually got up to around 260. It was not healthy, but that's what you gotta do when you want to be the best. So talk about overriding hunger signals. Like he would sit at the table and it would take him literally an hour to eat a meal. And he's like, Oh, I'm so full, you know. Anyway, so I felt a little bit, for lack of a better word, ashamed that I was in this relationship and I felt like he was so much better than me. In previous relationships, I was the fit one who knew her way around the gym and all of that. And it's like I was teaching my partner the ropes, showing them the ropes in this situation. It's not that I didn't know what I was doing, but it was just not on the same level whatsoever. And that was a time when I was still very, I think I lacked a lot of self-worth. I was confident in some ways, but I certainly was in this comparison mode. And it was hard because he would come over to family events and everyone would want to ask about him and his training. We would go out in public and people would come up and be like, Can I feel your biceps? So I always felt, and this is like core childhood wound, that I lived in his shadows. And I was like, you know what? I want to get strong as fuck. So I'm gonna go to his gym and see if I'm gonna like become a power lifter. Did I really want to become a power lifter? Absolutely not. It was 100% ego. So his coach at the time knew a little bit about me, my backstory, you know, how I did uh struggle with some disordered eating when I was younger. And we had a two-hour, not even conversation, this was an interview. Oh I had to be yes, he had to interview me to see if I was acceptable enough to come into his gym and train. I was like, okay. And he's like, Well, I'll tell you what, I will be willing to train you, but you have to gain weight because right now, because I was pretty small back then, I was in a good spot. I felt really good in my body, but he was like, if something were to happen to you, you would have like no reserves. So we need to put some weight on you. It's also gonna be really beneficial for your training. And he's like, You will gain the amount that I tell you to gain in the time frame that I tell you to gain it. None of this half a pound bullshit that I know you would try to pull. Like, no, you're gonna do it my way. So again, ego, yes, sir, whatever you say, I'll do anything. And he made me gain 15 pounds in about three months. So on someone who is five foot two, that's a lot. Yeah, he said that and I was like, uh, okay. And yeah, talk about force feeding. I mean, I kind of am a bottomless pit. I can eat a lot, so I wasn't necessarily overly full all the time, but it was more food than I had eaten previously or that I was comfortable with. So he would weigh me every single day that I came into the gym. And it got to the point where I wanted to be on track with my weigh-ins. And so on the way there, I would be drinking like liters of sparkling mineral water from Trader Joe's, just trying to pack the weight on. And I had an official weigh-in day, and I weighed in that night, and I was under by about half a pound. And he kicked me out. Oh my gosh. I had to do the walk of shame out of that damn gym. Wow. He's like, I'm sorry, you didn't hit it. And I was like, Okay. So I walked out with my tail between my legs, and I think I texted him a couple days later and I said, you know, I really want to do this the right way. I want a second chance. He's like, Okay, if you make if you gain the actual weight and you can come back in a month, we'll have another conversation. And so sure enough, I did, and I was miserable, absolutely miserable. More so just how I felt in my body because it wasn't aligned with how I actually like to feel. And it wasn't it wasn't even for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah. Yeah. I mean that I mean, it it just becomes eating becomes a full-time job. And again, as much as that sounds like fun, it's not when you're doing it with intention, right? Now, I I mean, I worked with Aaron, who I love him, he was a fantastic coach. I learned a lot from him. Um, we he didn't have like certain we we certainly had like expectations of what should happen, but like he didn't hold me to it. Like you're gonna get fired. But like there came a point, so I started with him at I weighed 135. Um, I don't know that we had a number that we were trying to hit. Um what did we? I think actually we I think he wanted to get me to 150 because I'm 5'8. That would be appropriate. Um but after about let's see, one there once I hit 142, it was just so hard to push myself past that 142 mark. Um, and that's where like I was just kind of like miserable because my body was just really fighting, gaining more weight. I know that sounds weird, but like my body was just like I I remember telling him, Aaron, I'm just so hot all the time, like I'm sweaty. Um, my workouts actually went like skyrocketed, right? Because I had all this energy coming in, so I was pushing harder. So basically my expenditure just went way up. So it was really hard to push past this point. It was clear my body had like a a ceiling that it wanted to be at. Sure. So I mean, it just took longer, the bulk was longer. We eventually got me to 147, and then I was like, Aaron, I just can't do it anymore. Like, I'm really ready to just diet. Not because I want to like peel off the weight I do, yes, but it's like I just can't continue to eat like this anymore. And you know, we mutually agreed, okay, we've pushed my body probably as far as it can go right now, and then we entered the diet. So yeah, like it just was interesting though to watch my body do that and like go through this process of like that first what like seven pounds was I'm not gonna say easy, but like certainly like things moved along as we expected, and then we just kind of hit a wall where my body was like, Nope, we're okay here, and it just like unconsciously was pushing me to expend more energy and then like just off-gassing almost right, like the heat I was so hot all the time. Um, he's like, Yeah, that's your metabolism, just like trying to do something with all this energy like coming in. But I was super excited in the gym. My god, like PRs every week. I felt amazing. Like, I was like, everybody needs to be in a bulk at some point to just feel the difference because I think a lot of women train um underfueled or just too erratic, like they are underfueling, then overfueling and underfueling, and that's not a great signal for your body. So, like that feeling. I I still remember being doing like a shoulder press and just being like, oh my god, like I just feel like I have untapped reserves right now. So it's just crazy what your body can do, what it's capable of, and then the ways that it adapts.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

So, like feeling that in real time was phenomenal, but but then the downside also is you don't feel well physically. So you're and at some point, aside from the gym, did you ever feel lethargic during the day just because you felt heavy in your body from all the food that you were eating?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Um, I don't remember that being a big problem. Uh, it was more just like at some point I was like, Aaron, like, do I buy new clothes? Like, I'm starting to spill over my pants, like they're really tight. Um, you know, and he's like, Yeah, you might want to get like a one pair of like fat pants, but like I I lived in black leggings, yeah, like exactly that's what it ended up being. But um, yeah, like it does get uncomfortable. Um, I think this the fullness, it wasn't necessarily um letharg let I was like lethargic, it was more just like feeling puffy and bloated a lot because I was eating high-volume food, which again, this is where just being more meticulous about timing and spreading out your calories was helpful. Um, and he's real meticulous like that, where he wanted certain period you know, workout nutrition and post and whatnot. Um, and a lot of it too. He was like, you know, we really want to bias muscle gain, not fat gain. That's impossible to uh right for us to avoid, but at the same time, we can certainly bias. So yeah, I ended up getting to 147 and then we dieted and I got down to 122. So I ended up, what is that, like 25 pounds? Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, because I think I gained 15, and then about six months later is when I started with my functional health coach. And I and I did just sit in that discomfort for that time when I decided to leave the gym and I walked out and never looked back. Like I didn't even tell him I was leaving, I just literally just walked out. Uh, and then I just kind of did my own thing for about six months, knowing that I was still dealing with some health issues. And after that, I started working with my coach. I had to go through a whole protocol health phase. And then when he felt like I was in a good spot, then he allowed me to diet and we went aggressive. So my body was responding so well. I think because I had not dieted in a long time, but also I had just done so much internal healing work that yeah, it just responded. And it got to the point where I was making such good progress. And people are probably like, shut the fuck up, Marcy. Like, it's so easy for you. Um, he was like, Do you want to treat this kind of like a figure competition? And I said, Yeah, let's do it. So we pushed really hard. I got very lean. And so I think when all was said and done, I probably lost about 15 pounds. So that was good. Um, but to your point, you were eating mostly whole food. I was on the autoimmune paleo diet at the time. So pretty much having to eat all those calories with meat, vegetables, fruit, that's hard, meat potatoes. Yeah. So there was no fun stuff. I wasn't eating ice cream and pizza and chips and all that stuff. There was, yeah, I think the the most fun food I had was like plantain chips.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Oh, I mean, I had fun food in there, but like we were, he was very strategic about even in my surplus to not have like high, high fat. Uh, because that that's just an easy conversion when you have excess fat coming in for it to just convert to body fat. So he's like, no, we're still gonna be moderate with that. So that limited my fun food, but it still happened. I mean, it just wasn't the way that I gained weight, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

So yeah, well, I think for me too, because I put the weight on so quickly, a lot of it was not muscle, it was body fat. So that was the other thing. Like, I could just see it. It's like, oh, I'm not jacked by any means. No, I'm just fluffy. And that's and then the last thing that I wanted to say, and then we'll move on, is I remember you starting to track your blood sugar as well, because when you are pushing into a surplus, like, yes, it's good from an energy standpoint, from performance, but not necessarily from a metabolic or internal health. So if you are in a consistent surplus, that's when blood sugar gets wonky, you know, insulin might start to creep up. So having to monitor that. And then I think when you see, okay, fasting glucose is starting to rise, post meal blood sugar isn't coming down, that's when you know, all right, I probably pushed this a little bit too far and it's time to pull out.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. You're right. I had totally forgotten about that. But yeah, towards the we did labs before I started, and then yeah, we did labs, or I started actually just looking at yeah, my fasted uh glucose, because yeah, when if you're in a surplus, of course carbs are happening there, right? And this is not to say, oh, carbs are bad, it's just no, you're in a surplus. This is why like the deficit or your calories matter so much. We anticipated uh glucose was going to rise, and when it started getting like problematic, we're done. We can't, we're not gonna push and put me into a pre-diabetic, you know, state. So, but that's just the name of the game. You're pushing calories, so of course. Um I I want to say too, it's funny, I because we didn't decide on this topic till after I did this, but my last podcast on the my other podcast was on the fact that like there's actually two dieting strategies. There's the person who has excess weight and they need to just get to a healthy weight, and then there's someone like you and I who are lean trying to get leaner, like those are two different strategies, and I think people get confused. Like, I often will talk to women who are overweight, they have, and I'm gonna say like 30 plus pounds, they need to lose to get into a healthy range, and they think they need to do the things that a lean person needs to do to lose the last five to 10 versus Yeah, and so they're very like wary, like I don't, I don't, I can't do all that, like it just seems so complicated. And then there's like lean people, like let's say 25-ish percent body fat who want to get into the lower 20s who think, well, I just did like what this person did, they lost 30 pounds just eating fruits and veggies, and like, oh no, honey, like you need to do way more to get into the lower. So it's like there's two two strategies in the right context, needs to kind of be understood. Um, which so when I did my bulk and I got to 147, I mean, we didn't have to be aggressive. We like I was still in a surplus for a while, yet losing because I had pushed metabolism so high, right? So, like I think my first numbers out the gate were like 2200 calories dieting, you know, and then it was like 2000, and you know, eventually we got down to I think we ended at like 14 versus now I wasn't in a bulk. I was certainly at maintenance for the last what is it, year and a half. Um, and I also don't have a lot to lose. Like, I'm hitting the ground hard because I I don't want to diet for six months to take off five pounds, six pounds, seven pounds, like, no, we're gonna get in, be kind of aggressive because I'm already lean, and then get the hell out. So I think it's really important to understand your context. Are you overweight and you need to get healthy? That is you have a lot of room for error. Or are you sort of lean, just trying to like really improve your physique? There's a lot you need to, you're gonna have to really up the ante.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

And also, I'm assuming that when you first started to decrease calories, what you saw initially on the scale, that loss was Michael, Michael, muscle glycogen because you weren't eating as many carbs, so you weren't storing as many, and then with that, you were not holding as much water, and then likely some inflammation was coming off as well. So it's like, yeah, you were seeing that initial drop without having to really cut the calories. And then once that started to level out, it's like, all right, we gotta kick this up a notch. But no, you were so right, and I'm really glad that you provided that nuance because it is true. And we did an episode on this, I don't remember which number it was, where we were talking about the different levels, so to speak. And yes, there are some people who can literally just cut out caloric beverages or stop eating out as much, and the weight will start to come off, but that is not gonna cut it when we're talking about somebody who is a little bit leaner. So you're not comparing apples to apples, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, and I just think the two camps tend to, if you're struggling, it might be because you're using the wrong strategy. So, I mean, so this is week two of my deficit. I'm looking at my numbers now. So I came in, I'm gonna tell you, like honestly, a little bloated because it was spring break the week before, so all my friends were available, and I was like, you know what? I know I'm starting a diet next week, so yeah, I ate out a little more. I didn't go crazy, that's not what I'm trying to say, but I certainly allowed like more eating out. I think I had a glass of wine that was, yeah, with my sister. Um, anyways, I came in at 126.5, which like that's not a number I really see regularly. And now I'm at 124, and I feel like that's really that what is that? Two and a half pounds is really just bloat and inflammation, maybe a little bit of fat loss, but yeah, I'm just pulling off muscle glycogen, like you said, bloat, water retention, inflammation. Um, so I don't think till week three or four I really will start to see actual fat loss happen. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

But I'm sure you still feel better physically, even if it's not actual fat loss. Yeah. That bloat and the water retention starting to shed off.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I want to say, um, let's see if I know when it was. April 18th. So that was like six days in. I there was like I woke up and I was like, I can tell I've kind of washed out a lot of the bloat, and I just felt tighter um and flatter too. So like even muscles just felt like they're not pumping up as as much as possible. So yeah, that happened very quickly, but also too, because I went in hard. I mean, I wasn't gonna like mess around with like, I'm gonna just pull 200 calories and the three 300. I was like, no, we're gonna just go in aggressive because I know I can. And I was coming in well fed. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

So that's another interesting thing to talk about because there are two different camps when it comes to how aggressive you start the deficit. So I think for someone like you, because you have experience and you have the skills, the routine, like all of that is mastered at this point. You have the mindset to be able to tolerate hunger and that discomfort much more than the average person who, let's be honest, has been in a surplus for years at this point. Like they don't really know what hunger feels like. Uh, or maybe they know what hunger feels like during the day because they are you know eating like a bird, but then they're just gorging themselves at night or on the weekends, all of that. Uh, so I think for someone like you, yes, it's totally fine if you decide that you want to be more aggressive right out of the gate to do so. And then the other person that that could apply to is someone who has an excessive amount of weight to lose. Because one, if you are taking the, oh, like let's lose, let's say it's a 200-pound person and let's lose a half a pound to one pound per week, which or half a pound, maybe one and a half pounds per week, depending on body weight. We typically say like a half percent to one percent is a good target for most. That's gonna take a long time for somebody who is that over. I think that would be very discouraging to see a half a pound, one pound on the scale. So if you go in more aggressively at first and they start to lose, you know, two, three plus pounds in a week, which were someone of that size, is not only realistic. Perfectly healthy because they have plenty of body fat as a reserve. So that not only is going to be encouraging, but not detrimental. So I think it's someone who has maybe that more, let's say 20, 30 plus pounds, yeah. I would not necessarily go that aggressive to start.

unknown 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

And I mean, it really depends on like if you if you understand your starting point, like a lot of people who are, let's let's say obese, right? So they're at that like 35% body fat percentage or higher, you are likely in quite a surplus a lot of the time. And so let's just say you're eating 3,500 calories. I mean, yeah, you could pull a thousand calories, put yourself at 2,500. That's a lot that you're pulling, right? But that's still a lot of food. I mean, like 2,500 is a surplus for me, right? And I know how much it was like a lot of food. Like, so yeah, it's really relative to where you're starting. And you're right. I think, especially if you have a lot to lose, you have your body's gonna be very responsive. Um, and I think too, you can just you can start aggressively and then kind of work your way down to a little more sustainable. And I have seen clients diet for, and I think you're you have the same philosophy. I will let them diet for longer than what I would say publicly because their body is responding really well. They're not in like a place where fat stores are so low that hunger is really high and cravings and sleep is disturbed. Like, actually, all of that is improving as we're reducing weight. So I've had clients diet for long periods of time because yeah, they have a lot of excess weight and they feel good. They're they're feeling better.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

That is such a good point as well. So, someone who, let's say, is going to be doing a figure competition or a bikini competition, they're already coming in starting pretty lean. So maybe to the point where one of our clients would want to get to as their their goal. Right. Right. So in that case, maybe they do put more of a timeline on, and obviously that's going to be dependent on when their show date is as well. But typically a prep is I would say 12 to 16, maybe 20 weeks, which is a good amount of time. I don't think it's anything too severe, but they are getting to such extreme levels that the biofeedback is going to be massively impacted. I mean, all in the tank. Just hormones are in the tank, probably losing your, maybe losing your cycle, sleep is gonna be shit, energy, mood, training performance. I mean, unless you're you know taking some enhancements, which is common. But yeah, like you can only take it so far because then you're getting to the point where you're at like the type the level of body fat that like the minimum amount required just to stay alive.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yes. I I have worked with a few gals who were coming out of prep and um regularly they are getting down to like eight or nine hundred calories. Um, I think that's actually quite typical because I mean, if you're gonna push for these extreme uh physiques, it requires extreme measures, which is why I do not work with this population. I don't think you do either, but you can correct me if I'm wrong. But like it's just uh it's an extreme that like is not in my wheelhouse in terms of who I want to work with, but I've certainly worked with gals coming out of it. And I think that's something that people need to understand is like what you see, let's say, on fitness magazines or on, I guess I should I'm like totally dating myself. Who looks at fitness magazines anymore, Andrea? Social media. Um, those gals, a lot of them, are at very low body fat percentages, and I question whether one, they are actually staying at those levels year round. Um, and then also like where's your health? Like, because I feel like what I have seen um just in real life, but also literature-wise, is like 18% is kind of that line where I start to see women just can't hold that line as long. It's an exception if you can, uh, but because we just we're a lot more sensitive to stress and body fat percentages because of our ability to reproduce and hold a pregnancy, your body is just like really fighting back. So I just it's really hard to watch some influencers where I'm like, okay, that's your physique is unrealistic for a year round. You are very much a figure competitor trying to work with gen pop, and it's unfair to say, like, and are you even staying there? Like, and if so, like how hungry are you, or how malnourished are you to be that jacked? It's just that is not common, or I want to say normal, and that's the thing, healthy, yeah, healthy, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Mentally or physically, because yeah, so and that's the thing with social media, it's smoke and mirrors, you just never know what is going on behind the scenes. You have to be very, very wary of what you see and not exp not compare your experience to someone else's. But to your point about the fitness magazines, because that's really how I got my well, I shouldn't say it's how I got my start, I got my start losing weight doing Weight Watchers. That's how I lost the weight initially. And then when I was probably, I don't know if I was necessarily reading fitness magazines in high school. When I was a senior in high school, I was doing this sports medicine class in one of the units we had to read the book Body for Life, which was written by this guy, Bill Phillips. I read that too. It's not a terrible book necessarily. It's like the six small meals a day, and then you get the one day of cheat meals, and the workout routine wasn't anything egregious. I think for me it was a good way to like take things to another level. And then when I got to college, is when I really started to follow the oxygen, the muscle and fitness herrers. I was reading this website called T-Nation and um figure athlete. And what I did not know, and I've always said it was for no fault of my own because I didn't, they weren't disclosing this. I was following these regimens, whether it was training, cardio, diet, of women who were gracing the covers and they looked good. They were jacked, but they were lean and not necessarily it's hard to say. I mean, I guess you could maintain that level year round. Um, they looked great, and that's what I wanted to look like, someone who was lean and muscular, so not what you would see on like a shape where it's more waffy and kind of skinny, so to speak. Like I wanted to have that more physic competitor look. But yeah, I was following these protocols, not realizing that it was essentially a competition prep.

unknown 28:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Go to the gym and do 60 minutes of fastid cardio, go back later and lift and eat these six small meals of basically protein and veggies, very low fat, very low carb. It's like no wonder I lost the weight and also tanked my hormones and developed an autoimmune disease and all of that. Yeah, it was just not realistic, but you don't know what you don't know, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah. I think this might be a good time to even say I don't talk about um ideal weight. I actually encourage clients to think in body fat percentage because the weight, the number on the scale is to me just kind of irrelevant because what I weigh like is relative to me and like my genetics, my build, my lifestyle, like my age. So like that doesn't really help. So I think it's helpful for women one to understand a healthy body fat percentage is anywhere from 20 to 30 percent. Maybe you can get down to 18. Sometimes I see that happen, so I don't want to we'll just okay, 18 to 30 percent. So I always encourage clients. I want you to look. I have like an image that I show them. Where do you think you're at, and then where do you want to go? And then talk about like once you hit 25%, most women are very happy there in terms of just that is a great place to be day to day. You can maintain that, you have to, it's still effort. I don't think that you can just be like, I'm gonna do whatever I want. Um, it still requires effort, but then getting anything lower than 25%, you're gonna have to really make some sacrifices, you're gonna have to dial in. This is not a uh I don't want to dip my toe, I wanna just, you know, I just need to lose five pounds. Like you're gonna fight for those five pounds. So you just need to be willing to do that. And some people are. That's where I'm at. I would estimate I started this fat loss phase at around 23%-ish. Um, and I'd like to get down to 20. We'll see if I get there in the eight weeks, and I've given myself a deadline. Um, we'll see. I don't know. Um, I'll I'll be fine with whatever uh I'm gonna execute, but do you really know what it's gonna take? Right, and it's just again different, even with the like, are you dieting for health or a physique? Yeah, when you get down into like those low 20s, you're gonna be surprised at how how dialed in you need to be uh to do that, and it might not be worth it, and that's totally fine. I just want people to go in eyes wide open, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Absolutely, yeah. And sometimes the juice is not worth the squeeze because it does take another level of effort. And I've been talking a lot about this in my content. I feel like it's kind of my shtick lately. But because I tend to, or you know, I guess want to at this point work with women who do want a higher level result. I said, I'm sorry, but you can't get a level results with B minus or C effort. So the 70, 80 consistency just is not gonna cut it for someone who wants that degree of leanness, yeah. Um, so yeah, 70, 80 might be fine, or usually is fine to move the needle with someone who has a lot more weight to lose, but yeah, anything more than that, and you're gonna have to get really dialed in. We've also talked about the changes that happen in perimenopause. So it's like the women that you see with the bodies that you want, they're not living that 80% life, they're living closer to 90 to 95%. And I'm not saying it has to be all the time, but when you want to commit to a fat loss phase, that is what you are signing up for if you want to see that appreciable progress and not just like drag it out forever.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Exactly. I will say, so this is actually part of my strategy. So, like I said, I haven't dieted since November of 2024. I have been at maintenance for so long because I am about to be 48. I am absolutely in the throes of perimenopause, and like I just don't get the privilege or the right to be able to just diet anytime I want. Like, I purposely was like, I'm gonna give myself at least a year to just sit at maintenance. And like, I still want to improve my physique. Like, that's it's fun, and I enjoy that process. Um, but I also don't get to do it as fast as I would like to. So I knew I was gonna come out of that last deficit, give myself a year to just uh create a new setting point, settling point, and just enjoy life and food and training and take that off the table. Um, and so can you improve your physique, impair menopause and beyond? Yes, but it's probably gonna take a lot longer. Like I'm gonna go through this fat loss phase. So let me actually say I was at 135, and that seemed to be a very natural place where my body liked to be, which okay, and then we gained 12 pounds, I got up to 147, and then I dropped to 122. I've meant I've maintained 125. That feels like a new settling point, but that was because I have taken so long to sit here at maintenance. Like, if I had come out of that and six months later tried to go back, I don't think that that fat loss phase would have been as successful as what I'm anticipating this one to be. Like, so yeah, as you age, we can absolutely transform you, but it's gonna take longer. Like your body is just less responsive, and you have all this added stress that you're not very resilient with right now unless you're really dialed in. But even then, I just think most people, women at this age, like it's just harder on you. So, like my plan is very long term. We're gonna diet, I'm gonna get out of this in eight weeks, and then I'm gonna sit at maintenance, you know, for another probably year. And I don't know if I'll do another. We'll see. As I get older, all of this changing is hard on me. Um, but I do enjoy it. I I do enjoy the challenge of it. So yeah, anyways, I think that might be helpful to understand. Like your your timeline has to be longer.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Sure. And the other thing that I want to say, and I don't necessarily see this addressed often enough, is just because you can maintain on a decent amount of calories doesn't mean that you are going to be able to lose weight on a decent amount of calories. Like I've seen women who can maintain on 2,000, 2200, and for whatever reason, just because they have a more thrifty metabolism, they have to diet on 14, 15. It's like, sorry, I know it's not fair, but it's just the way the crookie crumbles. So again, going back to, you know, know what you're you don't know until you get in there, but just know going into it, to your point, eyes wide open, that anything can happen. And if you want those results, you may have to get to a lower level calorie-wise, that is very uncomfortable and that requires a lot more sacrifice and trade-offs.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Yep. Yeah, go on. No, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

I was just gonna say maybe that's a good segue into us talking about what those trade-offs might look like.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Yeah, absolutely. I I was just gonna add that, like, yeah, some people or this is where you want to do some work prior and understand your metabolism. Like, I already know I'm a slow start. I've been talking about that on social media. Like, I already anticipated it's not gonna like weight's just not gonna fall off of me, even though I'm being aggressive. Like, I I'm not that's not me, right? But it also means I can probably go a good amount of time because I'm not adapting really fast. I'm actually a slow adapter versus a hyper responder who those those gals, it's great in the beginning. They're just like drop, drop, drop, dropping weight, and then we plateau very quickly, and then that means we're gonna have to drop your calories to get things moving again. Like, so knowing your body and understanding, you know, how does it respond is very, very helpful. I know, gosh, I'm sure you get this too. Like, people come in just hot, just like I want a diet, I want to get this weight off, and they're very motivated. And I'm like, we don't have enough skill set, we don't have enough of a foundation to hit the ground running. There's so much that needs to kind of get put in place, and I need to understand your body before I can guide you.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

And it's just so unfair, too, how some people are hyper responders. I've got this one client and she is an absolute unicorn. I have never worked with someone like this woman. Literally, in the six months we have been together, I think that's what it's been at this point, she's lost 40 pounds. And I think there has been one week, and she has felt great the entire time. No complaints of hunger, of low energy, of sleep disturbances, nothing. And she is, I think, 50. So definitely in that perimetopausal range. So you would expect her to be feeling the effects of that deficit. And I don't know if it's just because she had not spent a lot of time dieting, so her metabolism was a little bit more responsive. But I think there's been one week in our time together that she has not, that the average weight has not gone down. And that's pretty much unheard of. And now it's like, okay, you've lost so much weight. I want to start increasing your calories, not because she wants to keep losing. And I'm gonna let her go for probably, I would say, a couple more pounds because I think she's getting to the point where one, she looks good, she feels good physically, clothes are fitting great, she looks so much leaner. Um, but I'm like, you don't need to weigh any less. And but yeah, I'm able for the past couple of weeks now to raise her calories and she's still losing. Yeah, like must be nice. Again, like you can't compare, and I will share client transformations from time to time on social media, but that's why you have to keep your blinders on for the most part and not compare because not everyone has the same experience.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah, I would say nobody has the same experience, actually. So I mean, that's always I don't know how you feel about this. Like, I have such a like hate love relationship with transformations because I know they're helpful for people, like for me as a business person, like to show what I can do, but at the same time, it's like you don't know like their full story. You're just seeing like beginning and end, and like also like all they brought to the table. And just because we apply, let's say, her, you know, um her plan to you does not mean you'll get the same results.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

I mean, so it's just like I just have such a like conflict with like I want to show, but at the same time, it's like but in small print, these are probably not gonna be your results, so you know, we gotta figure out where what you're bringing to the table, which could be a whole other bag of absolutely yeah, when it comes to dieting history, so your internal experience, but also your external one. What is your mindset? What are your habits? Do you have those foundations in place? And that is really going to determine the the progress that someone makes.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

100%.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Yeah. So yeah, let's talk a little bit about if someone does have that higher level physique goal, what is going to be required?

SPEAKER_00 40:12

All right. I mean, there's a lot. Let's start with if you're lean, so I guess let's get real clear. So are we talking like that maybe 25% body fat wanting to get down into the lower 20s?

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Or even 30. Let's say someone with 10, let's say 10 to 30 pounds to lose. I kind of am like going off of it from a poundage perspective. Okay. But one thing I did want to say when you were talking about how you go less off the scale weight and more on the body fat percentage, which I do love. And I will celebrate scale wins for sure, because I know women are still caught up in that mindset. And it is a marker of progress. And we know with the way that we are coaching, we're doing it in the right way. So our clients are strength training, they're eating enough protein, we are not crash dieting them to the point where this weight loss is mostly muscle. Like I would not be celebrating that at any rate. But you know, I will acknowledge it. And I love to say, and I have for a long time, would you, if you woke up tomorrow looking and feeling exactly how you wanted to, would you even care what the scale said? So just giving some perspective.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yep. And I would hope 100% of people would be like, no, I wouldn't. Because I think aren't we all just looking for a look? Like, I don't really care what the number says, right? Like absolutely it's a look, it's a feeling, it's a confidence, right? I also will use it's funny, I just did a I don't know, post within the last month, and it was like, if I gave if you woke up with your dream body, would you be able to keep it? Yeah. If you cannot, then you have work to do. That's all that's I'm trying to say. Is like, so you you need to work on those fundamentals before, and then let's get your dream body, you know. So anyway. Okay, so about 30%. And by the way, yes, I use the percentages to just anticipate what somebody wants their body to look like because a lot of times people come in with I want to lose 10 pounds, 20 pounds, 30 pounds, and then we do it, and then they're like, I'm still not happy. And I'm like, okay, so like let me rethink this. What is the look you're after? So a body fat percentage will tell me that. But we certainly have, you know, I have them weighing themselves regularly, taking measurements and photos and all that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Also, because you know, you could line up 10 women who all weigh, let's say 140 pounds, which I think is the average for you know most women. And it reminds me of like those dove commercials. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right? You remember those? So yeah, they're all the same size or they're all the same body weight, but everybody's body looks so different. Right. So you can't going back to the comparison, you can't necessarily say, oh, well, she weighs 140 pounds. Why don't I look like that? Right. Well, there could be many reasons. So yeah, 140 pounds of mostly muscle, very lean, is gonna look much different than 140 of someone who's more, you know, skinny fat.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

For sure. Perfective.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Okay. So most important, I'm gonna say my number one thing, if you're health, let's say at a healthy weight, right? But you want to get lean or you want to improve your physique, which I'm all for. If you want that, let's do that. Um calories have to be dialed in in terms of like you have to know what were like your your needs starting out. We cannot go in guessing because again, you don't have as much um runway to kind of like I'm just gonna slightly change a few things and see movement happen. No, we need to probably hit the ground fairly dialed in. So, like calories have to be like what are what's your maintenance and can you accurately hit that on a regular basis? I don't know about you, what your number one.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Oh, 100%. That's at the end of the day, that's all that matters. Right. I'm and I Getting ready to record a talking head reel where I say one of my favorite sayings that applies to many things in life is two truths can coexist at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

You know what? Two truths cannot coexist. I'm in a calorie deficit, but I'm not losing weight. One of those things is wrong. One of the yeah. So I'm sorry, but you have to be in a deficit. And I will die on the hill. That the best way to assure that is to be tracking your calories and not eyeballing your calories, not measuring with cups and spoons, but putting your damn food on a scale, weighing it and logging it, and making sure that everything gets tracked.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

I love that one post you did where you basically showed putting food on a scale versus using a volume and like what is the difference? There is none. Like I just don't know why some people have such a hard time with a scale. Like but it's like the thing. It's like if I could tell you one thing, one appliance to get a scale and then log your food. It is the thing that will directly tell you what you need to know. And I don't know where we went wrong that women are so afraid or so like turned off by it.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Not only why are they, I mean, I think I understand why they're so turned off by tracking, because they don't want to visually see the consequences of their actions and what that two tablespoons of peanut butter really looks like. And oh, I'd probably be needing closer to four tablespoons. So the truth is revealing and it can be very uncomfortable. But yeah, why someone cannot use a scale instead of the measuring cups and spoons is absolutely beyond me. I said it takes the same amount of time. Oh, but you know what? When you use the measuring cups and spoons, now you have another utensil to clean. So you're you're biting yourself in the butt in two ways. One, it's gonna take longer to clean up. Also, it's gonna take longer to reach your goal. So you choose.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah. The only thing, the only or the only exception, because I have the same thought processes of like, why aren't we using like the main mechanism, right? Calories um, in order to lose weight, is okay, if you're just really unwilling or you don't have the skill set or whatever, whatever the reason being, then my other option then is like, well, then you need to be on a meal plan, which I know sounds like what you want. I mean, people come to me, just tell me what to eat, and I'm like, this is gonna fall apart real fast. But um that is your only other option because at some point you have to control calories. So you could put yourself on a meal plan, and I've seen it work. Um, it's just you have so much less flexibility already in a system where you have less room for error, it just gets a little dicey because you're not leaving yourself room there for life to do what it does, but it can be done.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

But even with that, there's gonna be some discrepancies because I I've been tracking my calories, I don't know, 10 plus years, and I will still put something on a scale and get it wrong by an ounce or whatever it might be. So yeah, if someone's using a meal plan, but they are eyeballing things, there can still like it's gonna be more accurate, but there will still be some inaccuracies.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Well, if I put someone on a meal plan, they're still measuring.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Oh, okay. So they're measuring, got it.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

They're just not putting it into a tracing app.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Got it. Okay, okay. I I think I was more referring to the people who, or I thought you were referring to people who are like, I don't even want to use the scale.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Oh, no, no. I'm like, you have to, like, we we are not absolutely going to. I mean, unless you want to just waste some time, which I'm like, that's not cool on my end. I don't really want to take longer than we need to. Like, so at some point, like, this is the concessions that need to happen. So, what are you willing to do? Um, and if you're not, then I'm clear. Well, then it's gonna take a lot longer because we're guessing.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

And you don't have the right to be upset that it's taking longer.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Well, it's like, well, let's dial it up then, you know. Hey, remember how you told me you do anything? This is the anything.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

This is the anything. What it looks like, yes. Do you take that back? Well, you know, I still track and I log, but or I still weigh and I log because I'm at the point where I could do it with my eyes closed. It does not take very much time, so it's fine by me. Even if I decided that there comes a day where I do not want to log, I would still use the food scale just to know that okay, because I could eat. Keep you honest, keep you honest again, because even though I've been doing it for a long time, I don't always get it accurate enough. I mean, close enough in maintenance, yeah, I'm sure, but there will be days when I want to eat way more than a serving size of almond butter. So if I'm not putting it on the scale, then that can get dicey real fast.

unknown 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

I I I'm sure you do this too. Like I like to liken this to like money, right? Because it just has a good crossover there. Like I'm at the point where I I track all my my spending, of course, but I am not on a budget like where every day I'm like inputting and like how much have I spent this month. Like, I'm at a point where I my natural spending tends to fall within what I want to spend for the month. Um, some months though, I'm like, ooh, okay, we got a little, a little loose, you know, and so that that's helpful that at the end of the month I always reconcile all of my spending just to see where it's at. So like you do it in other areas, right? And then you can also get to a point where you can kind of let go, but I I don't think you should let go completely to the point where you never check in with yourself and like, yeah, hold yourself accountable because you will, whether you realize it or not, start to have a little more peanut butter, a little more ice cream, a little more this and that, and it'll sneak up on you if you don't.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Absolutely. You know, it's interesting you say that because I don't meticulously track my budget either. And I do have an Excel spreadsheet for how much I spend on groceries just because I'm curious, and I would say it falls within the same $10 to $20 range every single month. And I think it's because I eat the same foods pretty much all the time. So unless I'm, you know, maybe going out to the occasional dinner, then I'm preparing all my own food and I've been eating the same meals on repeat for gosh years at this point for some of them. So yeah, it makes it easier to budget your groceries as well. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Okay, so calories number one for both of us. Um do you want to go for a second? I'm I'll go for number two eating out less.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

100%. I mean, I love Chipotle, and sometimes those herbers are really heavy-handed with the guac. So, and you can go on the website and the nutrition facts are gonna be there, and you can guesstimate or you can enter those in and believe, choose to believe that you're getting close enough, but I would be pretty um convinced that you're getting a lot more than there's a guy who I you know the thing about Instagram that drives me freaking crazy. I don't see the content of the people who I want to see, but then it's feeding me people who I don't follow. Yes, I don't want to see this. But there was this one kid, he's probably in his early 20s, and he did a video where he took this Chipotle bowl and he weighed out every ingredient separately. And he said, Okay, this is what they list on the nutrition facts. This is what they actually serve me. And there were some things that were a little under, but there are some things that were way over, like the rice. And I think that they do cook their rice in oil, from what I know.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

You would have to ask, you can ask them for steamed rice, they do have it.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

So those were those sneaky calories add up that you can't even tell are there, but are definitely impacting you. Um, so yeah, it ended up being hundreds of extra calories than he assumed.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Yeah, so actually that's interesting. So I here's what I did. I created a my Chipotle order, but I individually put in all of it in my tracking app and it had the weights of what they assume, right? Okay, so I put it in as a weight, created a meal, and then added that up so what it should weigh, and that's the standard. And now every time I have that order, I will weigh it and then put in that weight so it will adjust up or down based on the weight. And that was, I know that sounds like a lot of work, but it's it wasn't. I did it once, and now I just have to weigh it. And I will tell you, like, yeah, that sometimes I'm like, holy shit, like they like really went to town, like, and obviously I don't know where and what is exactly more of, but it just, you know, the whole thing because it's by weight will just get adjusted up or down. And then there's other times where I'm like, hey, you chip me. Like that is not the norm, but it's quite a wild range. And when I was dieting with Aaron, we certainly pulled the Chipotle at the end because it just was too unpredictable. And when I was down to like those last couple pounds and like at 1400 calories, it was like, okay, I just can't. Why am I wasting time?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Right, exactly. And so that is genius on your part. So yeah, spending the time ahead of time to buy yourself time on the back end, and the same can be true about logging, pre-logging your food. No one wants to do it, and it's like the best hack. It is the that and meals on repeat are the two best hacks to make fat loss so much easier, more predictable, and it is like pulling teeth trying to get someone to do it.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

I have to like show people more, like, you know, yes, it's really it is pulling teeth, but once a client does it, like I have one gal, like every check-in, she's like, This is just life-changing, you know, and like I'm like, I know, I don't know how to like tell people like or convince people because maybe it's that they want something more spectacular or less boring, but I'm like, it's literally what we'll guarantee like pre-track the night before so you wake up ready to go. You're not waking up, like, what am I gonna eat? How do I make my macros you know fit? Um, and what was the other thing? Now I'm like I lost my train of thought. Pre-track and oh, put meals on repeat, like just do it for the time being, you know. Like, I I do think in regular life it's helpful to have um a rotation, we'll say, of regular meals, but like when you're dieting, like just dial it in.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

But you can even have a rotation when you're dieting, and let's say that rotation is two to three different meals for breakfast and lunch, snacks if you have them. And then I usually tell someone, especially if they have a family, dinner can be your wild card. At least if you're pre-logging those other meals, then you have an idea of how much left you have to play with. So that is good. But you can save those meals in your tracking app, and then it's just literally copying and pasting. So I think part of it is, especially women, they're already so overwhelmed with everything that they're doing. Their cognitive load is so high that it feels like one more thing to have to do. But I said, don't you realize how much more cognitively challenging it is to track as you go throughout the day, or God forbid, you're waiting till the end of the day and trying to remember. Don't do that. Do not do that. That ain't gonna fly. You were gonna forget something or many things. Yeah. So that would be, you know, my best two tips. Um, and it really does not take all that long, especially when you get in the group and things are just repeatable. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

So I I think honestly, like if someone just ran with those two, you gotta know your energy needs, and then you you need to dial in like the nutrition to a point where it's I don't want to say effortless, but kind of, and that's where you'll find that you can then focus on the implementation piece of it more broadly, is super helpful. Um, obviously there's more I think we can chat about, but like those two alone are gonna basically take you a majority of the way.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Yeah, 100%. You know, it's interesting because I don't always pre-log, I'll be honest. And that's because one, I do eat pretty much the same thing every day. And so for my breakfast, I know by heart what the macros of that meal are. So it's just easy for me to, you know, plug it in. But the other day I was in a hurry to go somewhere. I was making lunch and I decided that I wanted to switch it up a little bit, which usually I don't do, and it just happened to fall in a day where you know I needed to be somewhere, and I was trying to log it as I go. I was like, oh my God, this is so stressful. I'm like, this is how people are living their life every single day for multiple meals. Yeah, no wonder why you think tracking is annoying and you don't want to do it. A hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

And so I'm the same. Like, I don't necessarily always pre-track, um, but certainly at some point I do plan out my day at some point, right? But now that I'm dieting, oh, absolutely. I have like the next two days planned out because I know I'm going out to eat tonight with my sister. Um, so I already like okay, I talked to her, hey, do you want to go here? Great. I looked, already inputted that, and then I adjusted the rest of my day tomorrow. Same, I already have it gone like done. It's just helpful, and now like I don't have to think about it. Like now I can record with you, go chump jump in the shower, we're gonna go to dinner, and I can be happy and not be dwelling on this piece. Yeah, simple but not easy, I guess. Yeah, I'm gonna say I I know we'll probably talk about alcohol, but um maybe kind of it I don't know where it would fit in the hierarchy, but like really understanding your what you're willing to do, because obviously as we talk, like yes, you're gonna have to do more, and like adjusting expectations because I think failed expectations really derail people a lot, and so it's kind of like understanding like where you're at and how much you're gonna have to sacrifice, um, which we can talk about alcohol in that, but like eating out needs to kind of come down because it's it's such a crapshoot, like you don't know, even if they have all their you know calories on a menu or whatnot, like it's still a guesstimate.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Um and also if you're trying to make the best choice. So let's say, because I was mentioned that eating healthy is not a weight loss strategy. Yeah, you don't know, and no, maybe you go out and you're like, oh, I don't even want to track this, so I'm just gonna make the best choice possible. Well, for me, the best choice is usually not that I'm in a fat loss phase, but I'll use my favorite restaurant downtown as an example. I get this, it's called like the paleo bowl, right? So you think it's gonna be the healthiest thing on the menu, which technically it is. So it's from a nutrient perspective. From a nutrient perspective, yes. So it is salmon, and clearly they pan saute it because it comes out nice and crispy, just how I like it. And then with some sort of mixed vegetable, usually it's Brussels sprouts. The Brussels sprouts are deep fried. I actually can't have them because they're uh technically not gluten-free, which sucks because they're I have tried them before I knew that, and they are the best Brussels sprouts I have ever eaten. But yeah, fried in oil. And then the veggies that this meal comes with are glistening, which means they are just cooked in so much oil. And then they're a little bit sweet, so I think there's some sort of you know honey type sauce or like maple syrupy sauce. Uh, I bet that meal has well over a thousand calories. And please believe I will eat it all. Yeah, but you're not in a fat loss phase, so impacted me. But for most people, they'd be like, oh yeah, such a great option. And they just totally blew their deficit out of the water. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

And I was part of that crowd of like, oh, you just need to eat healthy. Um, I I know I did some kind of content somewhere, I don't remember, where I talked about how like misleading that was. Now, was that a bad thing? Like, no, like I said, it's nutrient dense, you need those nutrients. But if you're trying to change your physique or, you know, lose weight, like calories matter at the end of the day. I mean, I I might you know offend some people here, but like this idea that like if we just swap out the oil for tallow, beef tallow instead of canola oil, okay. I mean, I'm not gonna get into the details of that, but like those calories are still a problem. You're you're not um that's not gonna make weight loss easier. I mean, and in fact, they have identical calories because oil in particular is just all fat, and it's so easy to overconsume that, right? And so it's just we're just focused on the wrong thing. It and maybe it's that you are not matching what you want, your desired outcome with your action. And so swapping out uh one oil for another made no difference in your weight loss, maybe your health, but I don't want to get into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Um, and it's the health halo marketing. So, perfect people, the Justin's organic peanut butter cups are no less calorie dense than the Reese's peanut butter cups. I feel like in some cases they can be even more.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

So they'll use like extra oils or uh fat, you know, in particular.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

You know, going back to the tracking really thing, I don't want to forget this. And it's funny because I was house sitting last weekend and there were two perfect examples. I used one of them. I'll sometimes do these quizzes on my story and ask people, I don't even give them the option to respond to that actual poll. Like I will make them DM me because then I want to start a conversation. Sure. So they had a bottle of I can't believe it's not butter spray. And I used to go through probably at least a bottle a week when I lived in the sorority.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

And you mean you were getting zero calories?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

Same thing with the Splenda that I poured onto and into everything. So I I know that a bottle of I can't believe it's not butter spray has 900 calories. I think a box of Splenda, it's I don't, it's in the hundreds, I don't know exactly. But those labels, if it is if a serving size is technically under a certain amount, they can call it zero calories. So yeah, in isolation, maybe it doesn't make a difference, but I also looked it up and six sprays has five calories. Oh, I was not using six sprays, I was probably using 60 a day, if not more. So do the math. And then the other thing that can be really sneaky is labels that are misleading from the standpoint of so they they had these ice cream bars. It was a keto ice cream bar. So you think it's gonna be better for you. And the label said 140 or 50 calories, and then I did the math and it turned out to be closer to 170 because a lot of those labels are not accounting for yeah, the net car, the fiber, the sugar alcohols, all of that. So I know it's just it's one more step, but that step matters. And because again, over the course of the day, if things are not getting logged, if they're getting logged inaccurately, then they really do compound over time and that can keep you out of deficit. And you're like, I'm working so hard, I am tracking, I don't know why this isn't working, which we understand. Like, we're not saying that like everyone is a liar. No, no, no. There's misunderstandings and uh but even like let's say bread, so or a bagel, you put that on the scale, and the serving size may be 40 grams, and then you weigh it and it's closer to 55 grams. I've seen that a lot with bread in particular, yeah. So weigh your shit, do not take it at face value.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

Absolutely. I will say too, I've had clients um, it's like the spray oils, also the same thing where the serving size is so small. It's like one spray, but who's and it's like a third of a second. Who's spraying for a third of a second? But even so, and they want the label to say zero calories, but then the in very fine print, a lot of times you'll see at the very bottom it'll say this can or canister, whatever has, and it's like over a thousand calories. So, where are those calories coming from if the label is saying zero calories? Like, you know, again, that's marketing at its best to make you think, oh, you know, this olive oil spray is zero calories. I can just you know, all over everything, and the reality is like, no, that's actually not the truth. And they're telling you if you just look at the fine print there, that like the can itself has you know 1500 calories, so uh yeah, that counts. Um and to your point too, I encourage clients hey, we do not do net carbs. Um, that's not really a thing. It's not it's not confirmed, and like I I have not seen good literature to say that like those calories don't exist. Um, I don't know what tracking app you use, but I now use macros first for myself for a couple years now and my clients, and they do they'll do the math for you so that if even if the label says, you know, this tortilla 70 calories, when you label or I'm sorry, when you input it, it will say actually it's 140. That's the one that gets my clients a lot. They're like, it's double. I'm like, it's double.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

I know. And that's why you cannot go wrong with less packaged food. Yeah. So I mean, it's just gonna make things easier for sure. I mean, you'll feel better physically, and then from a tracking perspective, it's just gonna be more seamless, more accurate. So yeah, I think that's all good. And uh we were gonna touch on alcohol. I mean, that's just a no-brainer, so I think I would lump alcohol and going kind of in the same counter, I would say no more than once a week.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Yeah, and I just would encourage like a just different mindset with it during this time period, which I I'm gonna say this is my last, my last point would be like your mindset is the last piece, and I tell clients, hey, by the way, I want you to have the mindset of like you're doing this willingly, this was your choice. We can end at any time. Nobody's holding a gun to your head to say you have to do this. So, like having this mentality of like, no, I want to do this, and putting a deadline because we're not gonna now. I know there's extenuating circumstances. Obviously, I just told you like clients, I do let them go longer, but I think when you know, like, hey, we're not gonna screw around, it helps people just dial in. And I want you to have that mindset of like, okay, this is the time to actually make some of those changes, be a little more strict with myself, and understand it's worry time me, and it's gonna be over, and we don't want to prolong.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

It it will be over, but also you can't go back to your old lifestyle unless you want the results of your old lifestyle back. So if you want to maintain that progress, then you are going to have to continue keeping things dialed in to some extent. And that maybe that's a topic for another day. I think that would actually be a good episode as to like what maintenance actually looks like and what is required, but that's a great way to end it for sure. For sure. Yeah. One more, one more quick thing. Uh, I know that everyone wants to believe that their workouts burn so many calories and just because they're feeding sweat and you know your Apple Watch showed you that you burned a thousand. No, it's lying to you. It does not know your body necessarily, especially more so I would say the cardio machines. I went to the gym and I did 45 minutes on the step mill, it told me I burned 500 calories. I didn't put in, you know, what my weight, my height, anything was. So that was a gross overestimate. But a lot of times people will see that and be like, oh, I can add that back. Or um, you know, they won't turn off the calorie burned feature on their tracking app. So it is adding those calories back. So one, the calories burned, whether it's your lifting, your cardio in your classes, it's not gonna be accurate, maybe a couple hundred at most. And really, where you are going to see the most uh or what is the biggest driver of progress aside from your nutrition is going to be your non-exercise movement. So making sure that you are not a slug outside of the gym and that you are getting, I would say, minimum 8,000 steps, if not more. I mean, the more better, the more the better to a certain extent. Um, I think 10 to 12 is the sweet spot in fat loss. That's kind of what I recommend.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

Yep. I will tell clients maintenance eight to 10. That's a great place to be, minimum of that 8,000, even seven on certain days. Um, and then I usually will say once we're gonna get ready to, you know, do a fat loss, you need to be consistently at 10 because I'm gonna put you at 10 to 12. And then typically I have to push 12 to 14 at the end if we're really trying to get those last couple pounds off. Like, I mean, like I started my my deficit at 12,000, like that's a minimum right now because I'm already an active person. So like I have to maintain my activity and increase it at this point, right? So I don't get to like I'm not gonna diet at 8,000. Like, that's that's me now regressing in terms of my activity. So that's another piece, is like people don't understand, like, whatever you start at the diet, you're gonna have to maintain that and then probably bump it up. So, like, we don't really want to come out hot too hot. Um, we want to kind of save some of that, but yeah, like that neat piece. Um, that's eat that I don't want to say it's easy, but that's so much easier than like, hey, I need you to do more hit or more, you know, actual specific cardio.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

Like we'll cut your calories even lower. Or yeah, I would much rather move more than have to eat less. But yeah, the last fat loss phase that I was in, I think I was down to 1100 calories, if not a thousand and 15,000 steps a day.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

Yeah. Oh, I mean, so that's a great, like, you're a small person, like you're how tall are you? Five two? Five two. Yeah, five, two, very like your your frame is on the smaller end, right? So, like that, I know those numbers probably sound really low to some people, but like you're a smaller body versus me. I'm five eight. You know, I I'm still a smaller frame, but like this is where it's you get you just can't take random, like strangers' numbers, which I get worried sometimes when people see certain, you know, numbers, and I'm like, yeah, but like, do you understand? Like, and and you're five years younger than me, I believe. That that comes into play as well, and you know, other genetic factors, like so sometimes, yeah, you have to get kind of low, like if you're a small person, thyroid health, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

Um, I mean, I am hypothyroidism, I am hypothyroid, I do have low hormones, so that can factor in. But going back to what I was saying earlier, I started that probably eating around 2,000 calories a day. So you would think, oh, maybe she can get to 1500. And he probably started me around that uh on the higher end. But yeah, I mean, as the weeks went on, it dropped and dropped and dropped. And I mean, I was eating sub 100 carbs a day for sure, and it was whoo!

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

I do not miss that. No, that's it, it is tough. Like, I don't know. I it's interesting because I this came at a good time in terms of like, I think I was a little, I was ready for a new challenge, and so it it just also lined up with summer, and um, I think it's helpful for people to watch someone go through the process, right? Um, and then it just gave me a new goal, and it's I like challenging myself. Um, so I certainly though didn't want this to prolong. And since we're talking specifically about like getting into those leaner uh percentages, like, yeah, you're gonna probably have to be a little more aggressive, like maybe not necessarily out the gates, although if you're ready and you can handle it, you can. Um, but you know, I started at 1500. Um, and I think my maintenance is like between two and twenty two hundred. I I would say that's where I regularly am. So that's you know, that's a five to seven hundred calorie deficit, but I can guarantee you probably by week seven, six, seven or so, I'm probably gonna have to drop that if I'm plateauing at that point and end probably around like 1213-ish. Yeah, then we get out and I'm gonna start eating again.

unknown 1:12:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Maybe I'll have to fly down and take you out to dinner. Oh, that'd be wonderful. That'd be fun, celebratory meal. Yes, perfect timing to be honest with you. Yeah, it'll be summer. So summer. Okay, we can plan it. Well, we look forward to hearing your continued progress and how it goes. So you'll have to give us the updates, but God speed to you, my friend. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

I'm gonna go have a lunch right now. So enjoy uh Coke Zero with that lunch. Oh, let's see. We do um caffeine free diet coke at night. Perfect. All right, enjoy. All right, talk soon. Bye.