Episode 19: The Hunger Episode: Why it happens and how to handle it?

Hunger can be one of the hardest parts of losing weight in perimenopause. In this week’s episode of Midlife Musings, we’re getting into all of it.

Hunger isn't a sign you're doing something wrong. It's a normal response. And when you understand why it happens, you can stop fighting it and start working with your body instead of against it.

We discuss everything from the physiology, the mindset, to the practical strategies that make a difference.

What we cover:

• The evolutionary reason hunger exists and why your body is wired to seek food even when you don't need it
• How to think about hunger from a mindset perspective, including why so many women in midlife have a complicated emotional relationship with it and how to start separating physical hunger from habitual, emotional, or conditioned eating.
• The practical strategies we use to mitigate hunger and make it easier to stay in a calorie deficit
• Prioritizing protein at every meal, because nothing keeps you fuller longer or does more for body composition at this stage of life
• Why snacking is doing you no favors
• Volume eating and how to build meals that are satisfying without blowing your calories
• Fiber and why it's one of the most underrated tools for managing hunger and supporting overall health in perimenopause
• Sleep and the very real way that poor sleep drives hunger hormones through the roof
• Stress management and the connection between cortisol and cravings that so many women don't realize is happening

If you've ever felt like you're hungry all the time or like no matter what you eat, you can never quite feel satisfied, this episode is for you.

And if it resonated with you, we'd love it if you left a review or shared it with a friend who needs to hear it.

Connect With Us:

@marcinevin 

@eats_by_dre_nutrition

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Here we are. Here we are back again, even with the shit show that is our life.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Yes, we just had a nice little eye at least vented and yeah, you know, life. Life is life. That's what friends are for, and it feels good, doesn't it? It does. And I thank you for letting me vomit on you. And now we shall talk about you were not vomiting.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Okay. I have a really interesting update, and I can't remember if I've told this story on this podcast. I know I talked about it on my previous one. I know we've talked about our pain issues. Yours was more injury when you hurt your back a couple months ago. Mine has been chronic lower back pain since I was a kid. It started when I was around 12 years old. Also, foot pain. So they diagnosed, they didn't really figure out what the cause of the back pain was, but they gave me the plantar fasciitis diagnosis. So I was wearing orthotics and all that. None of it helped. Like the IBS of yes. Yes. Of foot care. It it absolutely is. And plantar fasciitis actually presents more as pain in your heel. And mine was more pain in my arch. But you know, that went on for a very long time. And it would come and go. It wasn't always chronic. The back pain for a long time was more chronic, like an everyday issue. And it was excruciating at times. And so in my mid-20s into my mid-30s, I was working full-time as a trainer. So that was really difficult because I was in pain all the time. And as we know, and we've talked about this, you and I both, me more so, and just someone who pushes through. Like, oh, your dad died? Oh, well, you're just gonna keep going to the gym and doing your cardio, you know, getting your 10,000 steps. Uh oh, your back is really um hurting you. Nope, you're gonna keep doing your usual workouts. Like that's just how I operate. And I know it's not for the best, but so be it. You're aware of it. I uh yes, I am aware of it. But anyway, and it was at the point where I can't let this sideline me and hold me back. I've got to figure out a way to work around it. And I have always been able to. RDLs are really the move that hurts it the most. And interestingly enough, I've had RDLs in my programming because I do a group program, and really there isn't a good substitute for an RDL. There just isn't, you know, and so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna work around it. I'm in pain every time I do this exercise, but we're just gonna keep going. So, anyway, back in 2020, so it was right after COVID, I was listening to a podcast, and it was all about healing chronic pain through this journaling practice called journal speak, which is all about repressed emotions. So essentially, you write out your repressed emotions. The theory is that your brain, your body sees those emotions as more of a threat to your survival than physical pain. So, what it will do is create physical pain or other types of symptoms in the body, essentially to distract you from what you really need to process or even more express out loud. I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. So it was COVID. I had nothing better to do, right? My gym shut down, I'm not training clients. Uh, so yeah, let's do some self-development work. Some people bake bread, I do journaling practices. And I bought the course, I started going through it, I started the journaling, and I am not kidding you. Within a couple of days, the back pain and the foot pain completely gone.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

And it did not come back for years. So, anyway, fast forward to a couple of years ago. So when I turned 40, I had that actual injury from doing heavy RDLs, and my back really has not been the same since. Oh, but you know what else I stopped during that time? My journal practice. So I was thinking about it. I'm like, I know I really need to get back to this. And the woman who essentially brought it to the masses, she is not the one who created it in the first place. It was this guy named Dr. John Sarno who was a back pain specialist. He has now passed away, but he helped her get out of her chronic back pain. And then they worked together for a long time. And now she is essentially carrying on his message and modernizing it for lack of a better word. So she has this huge social media presence. She has a podcast, she runs retreats. So I started listening to the podcast like as soon as I found her. Binge listens to all the episodes. And some people have what they call a book cure, or I guess you could call it a podcast cure, where just being around the information can actually make the pain go away a little bit. Uh, so it's almost like the placebo effect. So back in January, I decided that I was gonna recommit to this practice because I'm like, I cannot keep living with this pain. And I started doing before I went and I started listening to the podcast again, consuming her content. I bought her book, I started reading it, and just doing that, I would say the pain reduced by like 50%. So I'm like, now I gotta get back to the practice. So I started journaling, the pain reduced again. It's like wild, right? Imagine that. Why do we do the thing? Why don't we do the things that we know are good for us? And it wasn't even about having to write the emotions. Like, I am someone who is totally fine expressing myself, saying how I really feel. This is a little bit different because it's more so emotions, thoughts, feelings that you would want to say to someone else that you are repressing the theory being we live in a polite society and we want to fit in with the crowd. So if we feel like we are going to be shut out or ostracized, that's when we hold things in, which makes logical sense, right? So some of the things that I would want to say about certain relationships in my life, it's like I really want to tell that person to fuck off. And like, this is how I really feel about you, but I can't. Right. So anyway, but then I also know I have been going through massive grief for the past four years with what's happening to my dad. But it's not just grief. Like, yes, that is part of it. It's anger, it's resentment, it's feeling like this is unfair. Why did this happen to us? I mean, so many complex emotions on top of the other emotions from day-to-day life, the stress of being a business owner and the uncertainty around that, just you know, the relationships you have with friends and family. So I was like, no wonder my reservoir is overflowing. We've talked about the stress bucket before, like, this is very similar. So, anyway, I was doing it for a couple months. It was helping. And then I stopped doing it again because I didn't have the capacity. And again, it's not because I didn't want to process the emotions. It always feels good. It's 20 minutes. I'm like, I'm already doing enough meditating and other forms of journaling that I don't want to spend 20 minutes doing this. Like, where am I gonna fit it in? So I stopped. Well, when my dad passed two weeks ago, basically, like to the day or to the minute almost, I was like, I wonder if my back pain is gonna start to decrease just because I am no longer in constant fight or flight. I am no longer bracing for the other shoe to drop. Is something gonna happen? And we told the story, I told the story when we were in Chicago. The whole time I was just thinking, are we gonna get the call that something happened that we need, and sure enough, we did. So that really impacts your nervous system. Um and like I said earlier, being a business owner and all of that, I mean, I just feel like I'm constantly being chased by a tiger. So I never really turn off, if that makes sense. My brain, my body.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

So after he passed, um, I definitely still felt the pain, but like over the next couple of days, it was starting to get better. And then I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get back to this practice. And I did. And on Tuesday, I did RDLs, and I would say my back pain was 70% better. And on Friday, I had to do them again. And it was the first time that I have done that lift pain-free in two years.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

And I have not felt it during the day, maybe like a little bit here and there, but not to the point that it has been. I was like, holy shit. Like, there is really something to this. Yeah. So it's pretty incredible. And where I was going with all that is because I know you said it felt good, or it was nice to have a sounding board where you can emotionally vent. And yes, I think that there is definitely something to that when it comes to those relationships in our life that feels good. It's very cathartic. But for me, like this is what really, you know, helps me to alleviate the stress and just for my body to be like, okay, you are safe. Everything's okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

And I think that you hit it there. Like, anytime I read about or learn about like nervous system regulation, it's really about just getting that signal of you're safe. Because I just we're not like unsafe, not in the way that like our brains evolve. Like, we don't have predators coming after us, you know, we're not having to like fight for our lives, and yet we have so much emotional stress and mental stress that it's really activating the same thing. And so, like, it seems like a mismatch in terms of like helping your body feel safe, but like your body doesn't understand mental stress, it doesn't understand your crappy boss that you know puts all this on your plate and you know ruins your life. Like that doesn't register, it just only registers like physical safety. And I think once someone can understand, like, you know, you have a bit of a mismatch there. And so if you can just help your body feel safe, like it can alleviate a lot. I was gonna ask you in listening to you, um, are you someone who easily compartmentalizes? Oh yeah. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Are you kidding me? Like queen of compartmentalization. But again, it doesn't I'll fight you for that title. Okay, well, we need besties in that regard. Uh, but but not not in a way where I am disassociating. Because, like I said, I can feel my feelings, I can cry, I can sit with my emotions and not turn to food or any type of maybe scrolling a little bit, but uh, I'm very comfortable with just sitting in the shit, so to speak. But it's more so like I've been forced to compartmentalize in a sense because everything is on me. Like I don't have a lot of outside support. My mom the other day asked me, she's like, Do you want to go to the grocery store and buy you groceries? I said, Absolutely not. I feel like you're in a more of an emotionally heightened state. You have more going on than I do right now. Um, I mean, maybe not, just like it's different, right? So, no, you do not need to be doing errands for me. Someone needs to be doing them for you.

unknown 11:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So, um, but yeah, it's just kind of like the show must go on. But stress is stress is stress, and your body doesn't know the difference. And also to your point about prehistoric times when we were literally being chased by saber-toothed tigers or um, you know, worrying that there was going to be a famine and we were going to go without, which how ironically is the topic of today's podcast. Like our brain, our brains have not evolved and caught up. So, you know, it's just their way of keeping us safe. Um, and so for me, you know, well, in this situation, like she was saying, the physical pain is a way to keep you safe. Because, like, one of the best examples she uses is let's say you have an aunt, I'll use my uncle. He is always giving me a hard time, like, oh, so how's that little business of yours going? Oh, like, are you really making enough money? You know, like just condescending. He can be a jerk. Um, and so I don't like to be around him for that reason. And so let's say in that situation, what my body could do to protect me from having to see him, and then also from having to bite my tongue so I don't like bite his head off and just lash out at one point, which I have. Um, I shouldn't I shouldn't say lashed out, but um, you know, maybe like it creates a headache. And oh, I have a headache. Oh, I can't go to the family event today, then I don't have to see Uncle Steve, right? Like it all makes sense. Yeah, it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

It I mean, the human body, mind, all of it is so fascinating to me, which is why I love what I do, but it's also it makes it difficult because there's not clean, like easy answers a lot of the time. So, you know, when working with other humans who are complex, it's like I I don't know. There's like a million reasons for you know what you're presenting, because like you and I are very similar, but at the same time, like I have a hard time sitting, I have a hard time naming, right? I had to go to therapy to learn how to name because I was so good at compartmentalizing, but it was like I stopped there. It was like, oh, compartmentalize because this is a survival mechanism. I I just have to do that, but I never got back to feeling, and I went through a period of time where I had a lot of kind of mysterious ailments. And what's interesting is I've heard now I'm gonna be very honest, what I'm about to say, I have gotten off TikTok, so you know, um, take that with a grain of salt. But it does make sense where a lot of women, um, more women suffer with um autoimmune and them making a connection between this ability that a lot of us have to like kind of like repress, um compartmentalize because we just got we gotta do what we gotta do, you know, as mothers, as you know, just very busy career whatnot. Um so yeah, like I I am learning how to now just sit in uncomfortable feelings. I don't do that well. Um, I like being busy. I sometimes I'm like, oh my god, what happens when I retire? Because that's gonna happen at some point. Like, what am I gonna do? Like um a slow life is not I like slow moments. Don't get me wrong. A slow life, that scares me a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I I sometimes wonder if what happened with my dad, because we still don't know with 100% certainty, like, was it really dementia? And my mom actually wanted to have an autopsy done, but it ended up not working out, unfortunately. And I'm like, uh, at this point, I kind of feel like it's for the best because what if that's what what if that wasn't what the actual diagnosis was? It was something else. I know she would not be able to live with herself, like, oh, is there something else we could have done? And like that would just eat her alive. Right. But, you know, part of my dad's issue was also he had major depression from when I was in college, and it didn't impact his life in the way that he couldn't get out of bed like you know, he couldn't towards the end of his life. Um, but it did definitely impact him, and especially like right when he started to really get sick. And a part of me wonders if it was because he no longer had a sense of purpose. Um, you know, he was in pain, so he couldn't like he was still golfing, but it wasn't comfortable, that's for sure. He was no longer playing competitive softball, which was the real love of his life, let's be honest. Um, he wasn't coaching softball anymore, and I think that's where he got a lot of his purpose as well. And so I wonder like, did he just kind of fall into this depression? Because, yeah, he was hanging out with his friends and he was working in the yard and whatnot, but there just like wasn't that deeper fulfillment. Yeah, so it's I essentially I feel like he lost his identity.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah, yeah. And I think I've already uh pinpointed that yeah, I will probably just need to like refocus my purpose. Right now, I have a lot of purpose with like the business, my personal relationships, my nieces and nephews, and like even right now, like helping out, like being in the sandwich generation where I, you know, help out with the kids, but I also help out with my grandmother and my mom. So I mean, there's so much purpose I can't I can't rest. Um so it's continuing to find ways to be of value, I guess. I just think that's a human like deep desire to be valuable and yeah, and and to feel like to feel like we matter. Yeah, that's muddy though, you know, because it's like I don't think you need to provide value being alive, you're valuable, but people want to be doing doing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, yeah. Feel feel like what they are doing makes a difference. Yeah, like absolutely. I don't know. Well, my friend, I think that you've got plenty of time to figure that out. So just don't worry about it. Just get through what you have to right now.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah, right now we're just trying to get through the immediate. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Um but well, that certainly went off on a tangent. So I know I brought it up, but I think it's just it's really important. Um, and especially for women, because yes, we are more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. I mean, there have even been links to cancer in women who repress their anger, which I think is really interesting. Uh, I don't know who you are read or who you are listening to on TikTok, but the work of Gabor Mate is very interesting when it comes to all of this. Um, and there's also that book, The Body Keeps the Score. So any trauma that oh, I see I know about it, but I actually have not read it. But it just all of the stuff is connected essentially. Yeah. So if you are not feeling it, it's going to come out in some way, whether that is physical pain, some sort of disease, or as we talk about often on this show, more unhealthy coping mechanisms.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah. And I would say on the opposite side too, if you have like mysterious issues, maybe look into maybe it maybe it's not um primarily physical, maybe there are mental emotional stuff, you know, going on that just needs to resolution. Because I know therapy really is a turning point with my health where it went from like every year I had like these weird, mysterious health things that would come up. And since then, nope.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yep, exactly. And uh, and so this woman, her name's Nicole Sachs, by the way, the one that I keep talking about. She says, by all means, go and get it checked out. Like I want to make sure that this isn't actually something serious. But once you get the clean bill of health, and when you do, that's when you know for sure, okay, this is more psychosomatic. And that's when you have to do like the real work. So, yeah, whether it's the therapy or just releasing it in in some way that resonates with you. But that's really interesting, Dre, that you also were experiencing the physical symptoms.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Oh, yeah, just and weird. It was just like nobody really it didn't fit anything in particular. And my doctors were just like, I don't know, you have allergies, or you know, it's whatever, you know, they don't they don't have the time and the capacity to really dive into my life history to really make those connections. That was something I and I didn't go to therapy to to resolve that. It was just like I needed to resolve some things, and then realized a few le few years later, like, wow, I really had like a clean bill of health for a while now, and like this is the best I felt physically, and no mysterious illnesses, like, huh? Yeah, okay, yeah, there's a lot to that. So without even trying.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, and I used to be so hyper-vigilant about my health because I felt I literally felt like shit. And I I do wonder looking back, like, yes, I have a diagnosed autoimmune disease and I have hormonal imbalances, like you can clearly see it on the blood work, but I do wonder if some of these other just like weird symptoms that I have are more what's called TMS. That is what this doctor coined it as. So it's I can't remember the exact words for it. Um, but the interesting thing too is she calls it like a symptom imperative. So it like mine, for example, might have started with back pain. And then as I start to um like lessen that emotional reservoir, then it can actually go towards something else. So maybe it was back pain, and now like, oh, my knee kind of hurts, or I'm getting watery eyes, you know, whatever it might be. Like it, you can have so many symptoms that this condition can present as, which is really fascinating. So anyway, okay, shall we? We shall. Although we could probably keep going on this, but oh, I could that could be a whole that could be the episode right there, to be honest with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Go deal with all your your stuff, because it might be the real root cause. Yeah. Although it's probably a combin combination, right? Totally. All right. What are we chatting about? All right. Because, and I'm assuming no, we sort of chat about this, but lots of people are in. Loss phases right now. I know a lot of my clients are. I'm assuming yours too. I was in a fat loss phase. That is absolutely on pause right now because life is not calming down for me over here, and I just don't need another stressor right now. Um, but I was so hunger. That's like I I always say I think that's one of the biggest obstacles when it comes to weight loss, because you're guaranteed to be hungry at some point. And I think we want to clarify how hungry like you're gonna be hungry, right? Maybe we just say that out off the top. Hunger is gonna be hungry.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

That is an an expectation that you have to set. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Now I think, and you can add to this, um, you get to decide how hungry you'd like to be. You get to uh pull that lever, and there's trade-offs for both sides of that, so yes, it's gonna come into play though.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah, so it must be expected, and also I hate to say it, tough love here. You signed up for this, so you don't really get to complain. Like, yeah, I know it's not comfortable, but it's just the way the cookie crumbles, par for the course, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

It's like you know, if you're in a season of trying to pay off debt, you're gonna have less money to spend, means less eating out, less, you know, random purchases of purses and shoes and whatnot. And that's you gotta say no to yourself. Now, I think those are different. And what we sort of chatted about was I think what makes it harder in this case is that we all have this innate drive to eat because that's a survival um survival skill that's just like deep in our genes. So you are fighting a bit of biology there, which does make it hard because your body will push you to want to not only eat, but even overeat if you're really overdoing the under-eating. But it's just it is, yeah, like you said, par for the course. Um, but it doesn't have to be miserable. I I don't I think that people might go to extremes with this where they just are like, oh, so I have to starve.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

I'm like, you don't have to starve, but well, but also I think some people can wear it like a badge of honor. So it's we need to find the Goldilocks because on one side of the spectrum, there are the people who wear it like a badge of honor. Oh, and then the hungrier I am, the more progress I'm gonna make, which isn't necessarily the case. And then on the other side of the spectrum, it's people who cannot deal with the hunger. And so they're not in the consistent calorie deficit that they need to make progress, but we want to find that sweet spot where there is some. And by the way, experiencing some hunger is a sign that you are actually in a deficit. So I like to say you don't want to be ravenous where that hunger is uh taking up mental space, and it's really more so a distraction from you living your life and being productive and present, but it's also not non-existent to the point where okay, you probably are in a very minimal deficit or not one at all.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yes. Yeah, and that's it's uh like we've kind of said, you it's choose your own adventure in terms of what you can handle. And most people know themselves well enough to know what they can, but I mean, I think this is where people want to rush the process because they don't want to deal with it, but then what they do is incur huge amounts of you know, hunger, which are really hard to it's really hard to sit in for a long time unless you're just someone who doesn't have a high drive to eat. I mean, you know, so that's the other thing too, especially with like GLP1s, which we had a whole episode on that. Like some people just have a higher drive to eat because of like chemistry, right? And so yeah, you are gonna have people who have an easier time with a deficit versus other people. And so you kind of have to know yourself and like don't put yourself in a situation where you're someone with a high drive to eat and now you're in an extreme deficit. Like that's probably a big recipe for disaster. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Well, I think we also have to distinguish between the mind hunger and the body hunger. So true physical hunger is felt in your gut. It's an empty, hollow sensation. Maybe there's a little bit of like rumbling in your stomach. It also comes and goes in waves. And what sparked the idea for this episode is a check-in that I was doing with a client right before this, where she is experiencing hunger, even though she is eating like even over her calorie targets. So we were trying to troubleshoot that. And so I was asking, like, is this true physical hunger where you are feeling it, like the body sensations of it? Um, but also remember that hunger will come and go in waves, just like cravings will. So you're gonna start to feel it. And then if you can distract yourself for, I mean, even 10 minutes, that hunger likely is going to dissipate again before it peaks. And the next time it peaks could be the time that you are set to have a meal. So if you can just push through, do some things to distract yourself, whether that's going out for a walk or drink. I mean, I think calorie-free or low-calorie beverages are the hack when it comes to hunger. So diet drinks, decaf coffee, sparkling water, anything that just gives you that kind of like mouthfeel can be really helpful in getting over that discomfort hump, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah. And I would encourage experimentation. I mean, I really like that like mindset of like, okay, let's let's be curious about the origins here or you know, experiment with what does like hunger really like physical hunger really feel like. So I was telling you before, as much as like I don't love that I went into like the fasting world and kind of you know really took a deep dive into that, like literally fasting, it taught me a lot about hunger that I didn't realize. Um, and one of those things was that hunger actually fades. You don't just continually get hungrier and hungry, even if you're, you know, starving, like it does still come in waves. And so sometimes, you know, when I was going long stretches of time, it was like, okay, I just need to like get through the next 20 minutes and I'll be fine. Um and so that's where I would just go for a walk or you know, completely distract myself with something that was very like engaging and took my mind off of it. And that was, you know, obviously people can take that to extremes, but it's super helpful if you're in an intentional diet when you, you know, anticipate, okay, I'm gonna be hungry, and you can already tell yourself beforehand, okay, I'm gonna get hungry, but it's gonna pass. I and I should have something ready to do in that time period, that 15-ish 20 minutes while I'm uncomfortable. Uh, that's gonna take my mind off of it, and then I'll be fine, and then I can, you know, make it to my next meal. Now, obviously, if your hunger is so high, like you were saying, like you're super distracted, you can't think, you have low energy, you know, you're like foggy brain, yeah, you're probably taking things too far, but that could also be low blood sugar, right? Um, but typically a healthy person can't go long periods of time. I mean, we're very resilient. I mean, we went as uh humans, we went through periods of time where there was little food for a long time. Um we we made it. So this is not to say that's ideal, it's not, but we we're pretty robust. We can we're not gonna die because we didn't we went seven hours between meals. That's I was telling you, I think as Americans, most of us, not everybody, don't actually know what real hunger is.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

True. I think a lot of times that low or that hunger is more of a blood sugar drop than anything because maybe you feel a little bit lightheaded and irritable, uh, low energy. And so, yeah, you feel like it's hunger, but it's really just a blood sugar dip.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Which I mean, to bring the blood sugar back up, yes, you do have to eat. But um, I I like to say hunger is not an emergency. So you are going to survive. It's not gonna kill you, it's just going to be mentally uncomfortable, mentally and physically uncomfortable. But that also goes back to the question is this true physical hunger, or is it I just want to eat because I'm trying to distract myself from something? So, yes, our body does give us that sensation because it doesn't care that you want shredded abs. It cares that you, especially as a woman, one, that you survive, but also that you are able to reproduce. So it wants to keep that fat on your body, it wants to keep you at a certain body weight. So the hunger is a protective mechanism fighting back against that. Um, but yeah, you've got plenty of energy stores on your body, so you are going to be just fine. So ask yourself, what am I really trying to distract myself from? Or what is the food trying to distract myself from, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah. I I I find also personally, because I can be a very routine person that sometimes it's just I get into a routine of eating at certain times, and so my body's just expecting or mentally I'm expecting to eat at this time, you know. So this happens to me right now. It's happening because I've been subbing so much. I'm on a rigid schedule again, especially an eating schedule. I don't get to eat whenever I want anymore. And so I can tell every day at 10:30 I want to snack. Why? Because that's recess time and that's my first opportunity to have a snack, right? And that's not typical when I'm working from home. In fact, when I'm at home, I actually don't snack. I snack more when I sub. Part of it is because I I only have these periods of time where I can eat, and then I can't, I can't just like pop out a lunch whenever I want. Right. Um, so that's happening right now. Is like my schedule is just pushing me to want to eat at specific times, not because I'm hungry, but like mentally, it's just like, oh, it's snack time, you know, like which can work to your advantage. Somebody who doesn't have you know a schedule um of I won't I don't want to say rigid, but is not routine, could probably benefit from kind of putting themselves on a routine so that the body is like in the like okay, we eat around noon and then we have dinner around five, and it can be a bit of a a good rhythm for your body to get into.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

So yes, that that is one of my other like best hacks, I would say, besides the diet drinks, is eat on a consistent schedule as much as possible because your body and you're like your circadian rhythm, that's really what it is. It gets used to the times in which you feed it. So it will be able to better predict hunger. Now you know, all right, every day at around noon I get hungry. So that can also help you be better prepared. So you have something ready to go, but also if you get to 11, you're like, oh, I'm starting to feel a little bit of hunger. Okay, I know that I have a meal coming at 12 when I'm probably gonna be really hungry at that point. So yeah, that is a great way to help just, I guess, deal with it a little bit more and have it be not quite so erratic. Cause I think that's also what's really uncomfortable is to not know when it's gonna hit. And that's probably why people are always bringing snacks with them. And and then their body gets confused because they're eating at all these random times. So no wonder your hunger is unpredictable.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah. I like to um encourage reducing snacking for two reasons. One, I just think we snack way too much, period. And and honestly, if people just stopped snacking and did nothing else, they probably improve their weight management a lot. Uh they just make weight management easier, right? And then it forces you to have more substantial meals because I just see too many people come in and I'm like, uh, you're eating way more calories and snacks than meals. Like that's a clear indication you're not eating enough at your meal. Um, so what if we reverse?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Snacks are not satisfied. No, now I I like to call them like a structured snack. So let's say you have your more substantial breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and then you want to have a smaller snack that is planned for and calorie controlled, somewhere in between whether that's breakfast and lunch or lunch and dinner to help take the edge off, especially if you are going longer without eating in between those two meals. So I think that type of snacking is fine when it's intentional, but it's all the snacking that is not, and that's more grazing than anything. That's where the calories really add up.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yes. I like if somebody doesn't have a preference, I usually will um recommend between lunch and dinner because you're gonna go through that. It's really normal, even if you have healthy blood sugar, you're gonna still have a slump in the afternoon. That's normal, that's part of your circadian rhythm to kind of rest and be. I mean, you've been going, you know, eight, ten hours at that point. Um, so I like to say that's a good time to get you to dinner. Um, and but still, like you need to see it as a snack and yes, be intentional. There probably should be some protein. I would love some fiber there as well, and not make it very um like hyper palatable type foods. So, like, this is not really the time to be like, okay, well, then I'm gonna have Doritos, and you know, like that's not really helping you.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

I mean, right, or even like a handful of nuts, which has a little bit of protein, a little bit of fiber and fat, yes, but and you're looking at a couple hundred calories from a large handful, and where I was saying earlier, or what I was saying earlier, snacks are not satisfying. A handful of nuts is going to be much less satisfying than something like a cup of Greek yogurt and a piece of fruit, which is gonna get you around the same amount of calories.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

I hate nuts as a snack. I'm just gonna say that's awful. It's a terrible snack because I will tell you personally, if I'm hungry and you present me with nuts, especially if they're like roasted and salted, I'm gonna have a very hard time having a hundred calories of that because that's literally a pittance of food. And yet, you know, it's kind of a ton of calories. And I'm not trying to demonize, I'm just saying I think it's grossly inappropriate for a snack. I don't mind sprinkling some nuts in my oatmeal or in my Greek yogurt with berries and you know, whatnot, but it cannot be like I'm gonna have nuts and string cheese. That's to me, I'm gonna be like, I want more 100%.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah, nuts are more of a garnish.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Speaking of, have you tried? I think that it's called B N S, B-I-E-N-A-S, their roasted soybeans. No, oh, they are so good. Oh, yeah, not quite as hyper palatable as roasted almonds or other nuts, but they are delicious. But it's one of those things where I will not just eat them out of the bag, I will portion them out. Uh, so when I was coming back from Chicago, my mom had brought some and I did portion them out and put them in a container and had those not as a s as like part of a meal while I was on the plane. Um, but they're very high in protein and I think nine grams of fiber per serving.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

13 grams of protein and only five grams of fat. So more uh yeah, I guess. Like roasted soybeans. Yeah, but give those a shot for sure. The great on salad.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Yes, I like that. So my usual go-to personally, or even you know, to recommend if you're feeling snacky, because sometimes I feel snacky where I just want to be chewing. Um, obviously fruit or like carrots or something with a nice crunch, but I really love popcorn. But I do like plain popcorn, like I get the kernels and I pop them myself. Um, and then I will use like um uh cholula, like hot sauce and like lemon, like to really flavor it up and like super low calorie, but I can eat a lot of that, high fiber, and it will satisfy that need for like just chewing and you get so much, like it's just such a high volume food, and then it also takes you a long time to eat versus that little handful of nuts, like it could literally be the same amount of calories, but like I could be eating that for like 15 minutes, the popcorn, totally, and then yeah, and the nuts are gone in 15 seconds. Oh, yeah, it's so sad because so sad, and then you still want more. So, so I remember after my last like um fat loss phase where I had my coach and we got pretty lean. Um, hunger definitely came back afterwards, and at one point I found myself at the cabinet just eating handfuls of nuts, and I was like, okay, yeah, it's time to just really start increasing those calories a lot more because I'm hungry. Like and I told my coach. I'm like, and I'm eating nuts by the handful. We need to like up this real fast.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

So absolutely, yeah. Um, oh, what else is I gonna say about that? I can't remember, but um oh, I know barrier foods is what I wanted to talk about. My favorite barrier food is pickles. Love pickles, salty, salty, crunchy, I mean, basically zero calorie. So eat them to your heart's content. Well, not really, but yeah, those are great as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

And I think so. I love that term. I've never heard that before, a barrier food, but those are important to kind of have in your back pocket. So, like to kind of um pre-plan those. Okay, if I find myself, because it's gonna happen. I mean, as much as I try to plan and be routine, look, life does a lot of crazy things, let me tell you. The last couple weeks have been insane. Um, you should have those kind of pre-planned and like on hand. So, like the pickles, the popcorn. Um, I love baby carrots because they're just very, very crunchy um and filling. And I can have like, I'll feel like I ate a lot and then I'll look back and be like, okay, I had like 150 grams. That's really not very much. So, you know, finding those volume foods basically that can kind of help you through the hump of hunger.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Absolutely. Yeah. So let's see what else can help with hunger. Uh, I mean, just eating well-balanced meals. So we talked about that a little bit. Just yeah, ones that are more filling, insatiating, and pack a larger calorie punch for lack of a better word, rather than eating five to six mini meals, maybe it's three to four larger ones. I think that is incredibly helpful.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

I know it feels like for some people, um like it's uh what's the word? My I have brain fog as well, like counterintuitive, you know, to eat larger meals. But I mean it's really helpful. And I will add that one trick that I will not trick, but I I think people should experiment with this and see it in action is to front load your calories. Um, have a big breakfast, a big ass breakfast, and see how much better you feel going through your day and how much less willpower you have to actually call upon uh when you're actually front loading, you know, protein, fiber, calories, and then, you know, especially like when somebody tells me they have uncontrollable snacking at the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, because you're underfueled all freaking day and it just kind of mounts, you know, you're exponentially increasing that. So do the opposite. Like have the big ass breakfast, have a medium-sized, let's say lunch, and then see how like dinner feels so much more manageable. And then having like a little Greek yogurt or cottage cheese for dessert feels very manageable because you're you're like expending all this energy in the front part of your day with a little calorie and then coming to the end of the day thinking that you're gonna have this little, you know, let's say modest meal, and your body's like, hell no, we're hungry.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Yeah, yeah. I have my three-bowl big ass breakfast every morning, and it sets me up for success. I completely agree with that, and it helps set the tone for the day and what I call like get ahead of hunger so that you're not playing catch up later on, kind of like to your point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

It's a real thing. And again, I feel like people, and I get it, I felt like this too. It was like it's counterintuitive, but it's it's not, right? You're you're almost front loading so that you don't feel that ravenous feeling later on. And I mean, I just know personally, especially when I'm dieting, it's a much better tactic for me to eat more at the beginning of the day um than to try to stave off hunger at the end of the day after I've been active all day and stressed and I'm tired. Like, I don't really want to be doing that at the end of the day, putting myself in that position.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. And and I really feel like it's the reason why I never tempted to snack after dinner. Like I can have dinner and be done and totally fine. And I think it is because I front load my calories earlier in the day.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

And so my dinner. Oh, go on. No, no, go ahead. Um, I would say my dinner is a little bit smaller, so I have probably more calories earlier in the day, but also more carbs. And my dinner is more just protein, non-starchy veggies, and fat. So it's not as much food, perhaps, as my earlier meals, but because I've eaten so much earlier on, I'm plenty satisfied.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Yeah. I was just gonna say, I think there's also research, which please don't take this to an extreme. I know people like to do that, but that we actually do better. With bigger meals in the beginning of the day, we're more um insulin sensitive, like as the day goes on, it's just harder. And so I know people like to take that as like, oh, then I should stop eating at six and never eat, you know. I'm like, no, that no, but you know, there is a little bit of um I think insight there to say like it actually works a little better with our physiology. And then for those of us who just have you know shit sleep, it's very helpful also to just not have food right before bed. Um, just to kind of set yourself up as much as possible for good sleep. So um, and and I know too, like if I eat late, which happens, I mean, sometimes my schedule is just the way it is. Um, it's just harder to get tired when I've just had a big meal, even though it it might relax me, but it's having a belly full of food is not fun to try to go to sleep on. Like that's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Right. Yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree. And it can help with or it can disrupt sleep for sure. Yeah, yeah. So and that's another great uh topic though.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Right there, like you want to control hunger, go to sleep, sleep more.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Go get your ass to bed. Nothing good happens past about nine o'clock at night. So if you are snacking on the couch watching TV, you are doing yourself no favors. One from a calorie perspective, uh, you a sleep quality one. And then also, if you're staying up too late, then you are gonna be tired the next day. And a tired body is a hungry body.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

I will say that doesn't that doesn't want chicken and broccoli. No, it does not. I will say I experienced that firsthand having to like. I mean, there was one night I actually slept in the hospital with my mom, and that was a last minute decision. It wasn't a planned, and so I think I got four hours sleep. I mean, come on, I'm sleeping in a hospital with doctors coming in and out, you know, I'm hearing beeping and there's lights, and I'm on like a weird recliner, literally sleeping in my clothes. I had nothing. Um, I was so hungry the next day, like so hungry because I was stressed, of course. So I have high stress, which is totally like putting my hunger hormones crazy. I had little sleep, you know. It just was that was a day of really just trying to grit it out. Like, okay, I know that I'm not truly like hungry, like this is just all these unfortunate things coming together, but it's hard to resist. Like that hunger was freaking real.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Yeah, absolutely. I believe it. I do. Yeah, uh, so the other thing, and again, going back to the client check-in that I was having earlier. So this girl, I mean, you gotta love her. I appreciate the ambition, that's for sure. When we first started, I think this is only week three for her, she was getting maybe 5,000 steps a day. And so I was like, all right, we gotta bump that up because 5,000 is technically sedentary. I know that you go to orange theory three times per week, but if you're getting less than, let's say, 7,000, you've got much room for improvement. And also, it is going to help with progress, and it can actually help with hunger as well. So there have been studies done that the more you move, and I'm not talking high-intensity exercise, and there will be certain people, I think this is very anecdotal. I wouldn't say there's any research on it by any means. I don't feel like this that the more cardio they do, the more intense their workouts, the hungrier they get. Like I do uh about 170 minutes of zone two cardio a week, and I feel like it actually helps mitigate my hunger. Um, so everyone's gonna be different, sure. But for just like overall general low impact, low intensity movement, so more so walking, that can really help keep hunger in check, especially if you were in a deficit. So going back to this client, she got a walking pad and her step count doubled pretty much within a week and then doubled again the next week to the point she was getting 20,000 steps. I'm like, let's slow your roll. All right, like we don't need to go that high. And so I said, because also you're so early into the process, I want to have levers to pull. So rather than you're at 20,000 now, what are we gonna go to 25,000 at progress dolls? No. And and you don't want, and like you're someone who has a hard time dealing with hunger. So I'd rather not continue to decrease your calories more than needed. So, yes, let's use the extra movement to drive the deficit rather than taking the food away. So she agreed and she hit 12,000 because we agreed that 12,000 was going to be her average. So that is what she hit this last week, and she noticed that she was hungrier. And I said, and she was wondering, she's like, I think maybe it's because my step count decreased. I'm like, well, is it because of what I was just referring to, where more movement, I think, up to a point helps keep hunger in check, or was it more so you were just distracted because you were walking so much that you didn't notice the hunger as much?

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Yeah, because 20,000 steps means you're pretty much like on your feet all day long. You're yeah. I mean, I I think that's like 10 miles.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

It it's it's a lot. And I am all for, I am all for a move more, eat more approach, even in a deficit, but I feel like that is excessive. Yes. So unless you have to do it because that is your job, no, you don't need to be getting 20,000 steps on the walking pad.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

No, and I am exactly like you, and I tell clients when we go into a fat loss phase, whatever cardio we come in with has to stay. That is our baseline. And so we don't want to go from okay, we're doing 200 minutes of cardio to like 300, and now that's the baseline because it will become your maintenance, right, at some point. So yeah, like I use almost verbatim what you said there, where I'm like, we want room to be able to create more of a deficit when we need it later. So we want modest cardio coming in. We want steps, you know, at a you know, 10,000 to start, but we're not gonna start at the the higher end. So I usually start at 10 to 12,000 and then I tell them at some point we're probably gonna move to 12 to 14. I really don't like to push past 14 because that's just a lot of time. Like at that point, I'm like, you probably need more intensity, or we're gonna have to pull food. Like, but where are we walking all the time? Like, I went to Knott's Friday on a field trip. I got 16,000 steps. Um, I don't know where I'm getting 20. I would have had to been walking all night, too, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Like, I mean, even when I was in Chicago, my mom and I walked from our hotel downtown to the river where we were doing the architecture cruise. And I had even gone for a 10-minute walk prior to that. And when I checked my steps when we got off the boat, I was like, oh, I'm probably at 10,000 already. I was at 4,500. I'm like, what in the I feel like I've been walking for an hour, you know? So yeah, like that is a lot of steps. And also, because it is time consuming, like, yes, you can multitask on the walking pad. Sure. You can respond to text messages. You, if you're going slow enough, you can type emails or you know, watch a zoom call. But you know where I would really like that time spent in the freaking kitchen, doing some meal prep or pre-logging your food, you know, just yeah, so there can be although you could pre-log your food on the walking pad now that I think about it, but you know what I mean. Just like something that's going to have more of an impact on your nutrition, or just you know, spending time with your family, doing something that brings you joy.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Yeah.

unknown 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

I know I've had clients who have littles, and um, they started incorporating like a family walk after dinner. So it was great. They could all as a family go for a walk that helps digestion. She's getting her steps in, the family's together. You know, I love stuff like that where we can, you know, keep everybody happy and yeah, hit multiple things at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

So yeah. Um, I'm trying to think if there's anything else, but I think we nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

I think so. Um, let's see. Number one, hunger is to be expected. I think we cannot really get away from that. I mean, you can certainly mitigate it by going slower, but you have to understand, okay, well, you have a longer, probably runway, which maybe you're okay with. Um, but some hunger, like, yeah, you're underfueling. That's normal. And I think I like how you said it's it's not an emergency. You'll you'll be fine. Not to be confused with great, let's just undereat all the time. Like, right. No, we're being very strategic about when you're in that fat loss phase, it's planned out. There's an enter, an exit. Like, this is not like let's underfuel all the time. Please, please.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Exactly. Yes, because more hunger does not necessarily mean more progress. And it can catch up with you. I think this is where a lot of times women get into trouble because they feel like they're eating so little during the week or they're being so good because they're trying to slash their calories to a thousand, twelve hundred, and then the hunger catches up with them at the end of the week when because here's the thing everyone is going to experience hunger differently. So, or excuse me, um, well, yeah, I guess hunger, but like also stress. So there are some people who stress eat. There are other people whose appetite shuts off because of stress. And if they are in fight or flight mode most of the day because they're running from one thing to the next, you know, they're managing kids, they're working, they're on the move, then maybe they don't have that hunger signal. Also, I think caffeine can really impact hunger. Uh, it can um suppress it, right? So if you are slamming coffee the second you get up and then you're having some later in the day, that also can suppress it. And then what happens when you get to the end of the evening, the caffeine has worn off, the stress has come down a little bit, that's when you notice the hunger pickup. But also it happens at the end of the week. Weekend comes, you're a little bit more relaxed, and so the hunger can present itself more because you've been in such an aggressive deficit prior. And then what happens? You you know slam 3,000 in a day, and you wonder why you're not making progress.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Or one meal.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Yeah, or one, thank you. Yes, one meal going out to eat, and it's like, oh, well, I was so good. So not only do I deserve it, but also I'm starving. So what happens? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

I like to tell people you're not gonna outsmart very, very intelligent physiology, you know, like the caffeine in particular. Um, just because it helps you get through the morning without eating doesn't mean you eliminated that need for food. You just band-aided that time frame, and later it's knock knock knock gonna come back and be like, Hey, remember how you didn't feed me in the morning? I'm starving now. Yes. So yeah, it's a momentary band-aid, and yeah, we can use it. I mean, I definitely when I'm dieting, will have like a diet coke in the afternoon when I have that little dip. So the caffeine's kind of nice, it's zero calorie, fine. Um, but yeah, relying on caffeine, you're just band-aiding that hunger. It will come back. Your body's not gonna be like No problem.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

With a vengeance, with a vengeance, yeah. And we know that, you know, so cortisol is talked about so often. Oh, I'm gaining weight because my cortisol is elevated. Well, increased cortisol can increase hunger and cravings. But going back to what I was saying earlier, adrenaline from stress can shut off hunger. So it's this kind of weird push and pull, so to speak, where like it could be blunting hunger in one area, but then also increasing it in others. So that can be kind of tricky to navigate.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

But that's the same like idea, right? Like the adrenaline is blunting it because like eating right now is not important. Like if you're in fight or flight, like you don't have time to go eat, right? So it's like, let's shut that down right now so we can deal with the stressor, right? And then we know like cortisol in particular, it's like a mobilizing hormone, right? So it's gonna mobilize blood sugar, it's gonna heighten your breathing, your sight, your right to deal. But hey, guess what happens on the back end when the stressor is gone? You're gonna have to backfill for all of that energy that you expended during the stress, right? So again, like you're not gonna outwit very, very intelligent physiology that has survived millions of years, right? It's survived because it has ways to mitigate and navigate all of this, but like you're not gonna get away with starving yourself, and there's gonna be no hunger. Sorry, that no, that's not good for survival.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

No, no, no, yeah. Well, and also what happens is when the cortisol elevates, it basically takes all of your blood and shuttles it to your extremities and away from your gut, so that it's go because that's what you need to run and run from the tiger that's chasing you. Um, and so when it's diverted from the gut, then it's going to you know impact digestion. So, yeah, like you're probably not gonna be as hungry as well. So it's all interesting stuff. The human body is fascinating, what it does to keep us alive.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Yes, I know that like so that happens very tangibly for me when I'm stressed. Um, my regularity just goes out the window because everything just comes to a slow. Because, like what you just said, there is no need to prioritize digestion in that period of time, and so it does not for me. The train does not keep going, it slows.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

Yeah, all right. Well, hopefully this was helpful. I hope so. So you're gonna be hungry, sorry, but there's things you can do, and it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

And again, you signed up for it, and you know, I tell clients, it's your choice, you have chosen to do this, and there's an end date. So just remember there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

So right, it is not forever.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

No, it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

And you can do hard things. You've done you have endured many more challenging, uncomfortable physical experiences. One of the examples that I was giving off air was if you birthed a child, if you've done a really hard workout, yes, and that lasts for hours, like hours and hours, right? Yes. So you can get through this as well.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

It's you know, um, you were talking earlier, you know, personally, how you know you're you have learned to like sit in the discomfort of like emotions. You can also learn to sort of sit in the discomfort of hunger. It's I don't want to say disassociate, but kind of you can get to a point where you just you notice it and go, oh, all that's really happening is like my stomach is a little uncomfortable, I can feel the rumbling, right? Like it's kind of an exercise in being a little outside of it. I'm not trying to say completely disassociate, but you know, um, and then you you watch it kind of just fade away and you're like, oh, look at that. Interesting, done. Exactly. Yep. Crazy. Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

And that that really does build resilience and self-trust.

unknown 59:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

I know that I have um brought the comfort crisis um that book up. Yes. He regularly now goes on these like month-long, I don't know if it's one month or two, um, like gaming hunt hunting, right? Where he, you know, basically is out in the wild and he has to go through periods of there's no food because you're out there and you're carrying and you're trying to hunt, right? So you don't know when you're gonna eat. And he was he just talked a lot about how um informative that is, like where yeah, you and you make it re you know, you you make it happen, and it does become a part of like doing hard things and challenging yourself and kind of coming out the other end, like, oh, I am way more resilient than I thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

Yes. Is that the one where he talks about where he eats meals with no seasonings? Um or is that a different one? That might be a different type of book.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

I don't know, but like that's interesting because I was reading um again, The Hungry Brain, is that what it's called? Stefan Guinea. Yeah, and he talks about how like the more variety you have in your diet, like kind of makes it harder. Um, people tend to do better, like like with weight loss with less variety. And I encourage clients, like, now's not the time to be like having banger of a meal so that that kind of hurts you sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

That's actually a really good thing to end on because there's a show, I don't remember what the name of it is, um, where they go to they basically just gorge themselves with food, right? And there's one episode where the guy goes to like an ice cream parlor type of place, and he gets this huge ice cream sundae and he's trying to finish it. I think it's like a challenge where you get this huge meal and you try to finish it all. So he gets this huge sundae, and then he's like about to throw up, and then they bring him French fries and he starts to eat those, and it allows him to go back and finish the ice cream because it's the difference in not just the textures, but the flavor profile. So you're going from like salty to sweet, which is why buffets can be so challenging or not challenging, but can be like a mindfield because there are so many different options of all these different tastes and textures. So it's just this, you know, taste bud explosion and it makes it really easy to overeat. So yeah, I think keeping, I mean, I'm all for seasoning your meals and you know, yeah, varying the temperatures and the textures that can really help. But, you know, you gotta keep a limit on it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Yeah. So the hungry brain, yeah, talks about all of that, the buffet effect and all that. It's you know, very much it's dopamine dependent. So like you max out on dopamine when you eat savory. But if I bring out a dessert, you're like, oh, my dessert stomach. No, you just maxed out on the savory, and now you're able to eat with the dessert, even though you're physically full because dopamine is gonna re well, you don't have any dopamine, you haven't gotten any dopamine from sweets, so now you can do that. So isn't that so wild? It is wild, but it helps me remember that is my ancient higher high hardwiring that kept me alive. I don't have to listen to it, it's not, I don't need that to survive anymore. So it makes it a little easier for me to ignore. Like I'm not hurting myself, that's just my body thinking, hey, we could eat that. That's there's a lot of calories there, that's really helpful. Let's eat that, and then I can remind myself you're fine. Yeah, you're well fed, Andrea.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

Exactly. Yes, it's just all right, friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Alrighty, have a wonderful week.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

You as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Are you working tomorrow because it's Memorial Day? No, no school tomorrow. Um Tuesday I'm busy, but I have three more sub-jobs Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then that is it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Okay, I love it. You're the the end is in sight.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Oh, it is absolutely in sight. This this Friday I am gonna be like hallelujah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

We didn't I'm excited for you. So well, I am working tomorrow. I've got some gym clients, client check-ins, so it's just business as usual.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

I'm like hoping for a quiet Monday where I just do check ins.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

Well, I hope it's quiet for you as well. Thank you. And no emergencies with the family.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

Yes, that would be lovely. So we can always hope.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

All right, we'll talk to you next week. Alrighty. Bye. Bye.