Midlife Musings
Unfiltered conversations about the real challenges of navigating midlife
Midlife Musings
Episode 21: Things We've Changed Our Minds About (Nutrition Edition)
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We've all had that moment where something we swore by for years stopped making sense. In this episode of Midlife Musings, we're getting honest about the nutrition beliefs we used to hold tight and have now changed our minds about.
And now that we’re older, wiser, have more time coaching clients, and have tried new things ourselves, we know that changing your mind isn't a weakness. Being able to do so reflects personal growth.
Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is admit what is no longer working and be willing to think differently.
In this episode, we cover:
- The nutrition rules we followed for years that we no longer believe in
- How our thinking around food tracking has evolved
- The truth about cutting out foods you love and why we stopped recommending it
- What we got wrong about protein amount and timing
- Specifically, how our relationship with food has shifted in perimenopause
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Well hello. Hello, hello. How are you? You know, we're uh we're moving along. I can't complain. It's not perfect, but I can't complain.
SPEAKER_01Well, that is progress.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I'm happy to have my health and my family. Um so how about you?
SPEAKER_01Uh same. Yeah, can't complain. I'm at uh another house sitting location, my favorite one. So that's nice. Yeah, it just got cut short. Oh, yeah, they've got a beautiful pool. So I was telling you before we started recording, the husband who I went to high school with, and his wife is a friend of mine since first grade. So I'm very close with them. And he's a realtor here in town. And he texted me and said, Hey, change of plans again, but we found a house that we really like and we want to put ours on the market as soon as possible. So I'm gonna be coming home tomorrow or on Tuesday. I was like, How can you sell this house?
SPEAKER_00Oh, they're selling the house you're in right now.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh, that's a shame because you said it's great. Oh my god, well, they're probably gonna be going somewhere even better, let's be honest. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but but still, I mean this house is just gorgeous. The pool, the backyard, it has putting green, bocce ball. Wow, um pool. No, see, I said pool, basketball court, ping pong table. They've got four kids, so okay, it's a kids' paradise. Right, right. And just like the house itself is really nice. They've updated it and all that, so it's light and bright and airy and just so peaceful. But I'm assuming why they want to move is because again, they have four kids and two of the girls share a room. So I'm assuming that they found somewhere that has more rooms.
SPEAKER_00Got it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So anyway, we'll see what happens. Yeah, it looks great from here. So it is nice, but yeah, other than that, things are just moving right along. I cannot believe it's already like the first week of June is done.
SPEAKER_00Crazy, yes. And like I I don't know if I I guess I had finished subbing the last time we or had I not. I don't know, but that's done. Like the school year's done, that's crazy to me. Like how fast it goes by. It's like that saying, the days are long, but the years are short. It's just like, what? It's the last day. That's just blows my mind. But summer is officially here. I love it. Yes. Even though I don't really get a summer, I mean, yeah, from subbing, but I mean, I don't look at subbing as my job, it's just a side gig.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, no, I don't have a summer either. Although my mom did say to me a couple of days ago, do you have any interest in going to Hawaii in August? Like, uh, is that a trick question? I don't know if we'll do it, but one of their family friends, obviously, when they found out about my dad, reached out and invited us to come because they live on the big island. So I don't think we would go for a full week if we go, you know, maybe four or five days. I just can't decide because I have so much going on, not only with my businesses, um, but the fact that I'm on the move so much, like doing all of this house sitting. And while, yes, it's nice because I'm staying at these beautiful places, like it's still a disruption to my routine. I have to pack up all my shit. I gotta move it, I gotta bring it back to my so it's a lot. And I'm like, ah, do I really want to go somewhere? Well, like, don't get me wrong, I am incredibly grateful for the invitation. That is so nice of them. Do I really want to stay at someone's house? It would be one thing if they were not there, but they would be there. Um and like I know these people I have for a very long time, but I don't know them very well. It's like I'm going to stay with family. Right. And so, like, I just don't know if my time is already so limited. My my free time, yeah. Do I want to spend it flying five hours to an island that would not be my first choice to hang out with people who I don't even know all that well anymore? I don't know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What is your favorite island? Uh Kawaii. Oh, me too.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00We just went as a family. My my parents, my sister and her family, me, um, and it was amazing. We stayed in a a condo, I guess, townhouse. It was it was great for us to all be together, but we all had our separate like rooms and spaces, but then like be able to eat together, hang out together. Oh my god, it was amazing. And Kawaii is just chef's kiss.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's my favorite. I mean, granted, I've never been to another. Well, I've been to Maui and I like that one as well. It's just way more touristy, at least you know, if you're on um that main drag. So either of those two, I would like to go to Waikiki at some point. I know it's a little more of the like hustle and bustle island, so to speak. But yeah, I feel ungrateful saying this, but again, when time is limited, I want to make the most of it. Yeah, and I'm just not sure if this is what that would be, or if I would rather plan a trip like to go see you or you know, somewhere else that would be more of a first choice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I hear you.
SPEAKER_01So we'll see. Yeah. Anyway, uh, shall we get into it? Because I know speaking of speaking of limited time, ours is today.
SPEAKER_00It is, yes. So all right, let's jump in. So we actually pre-planned this one, which it's not that we don't pre-plan them, but I think we put in like some time to uh talk about the main points. Um we want to talk about it. Okay, don't don't give away our secret things plan when we're doing we have a list of our topics, it's just that we don't necessarily like write out our main points. Like, yeah. Too shy. But this one, this one, I mean, I think it was more important we did. So uh because I I don't know about you, I could have gone on and on with this, and I really had to like tap myself at some point. Um so we wanted to chat about things we've changed our minds on, which I think so. I want to say, and I think you're gonna totally agree with me, that part of why I want to do this is because I think it's important that you change your mind, that you're always, you know, being critical of your beliefs and understanding, especially like in our you know, field here, that science, it's not that science changes, but we learn more, right? And so it's a good thing to be able to say, Oh yeah, I don't believe that anymore. And um, I think I know in like preparing myself, um I found myself basically like kind of saying, like, it depends, right? Like, I'm not in a camp of extreme anymore where I used to be. And I think a lot of people start in that place, right? Where it's like, oh no, this is it, and that's wrong. And eventually you kind of get to a place where you're like, well, it depends on your context and uh XYZ. So um anyway, I just want to start with always nuance, yes, yes. So I wanted to start with like part of it is to say, yeah, I've changed my mind and I'm okay saying I was wrong or I learned more, and like I'm not so entrenched in um an ideology that I can't say, yeah, evidence has shown me otherwise, and I think that's a good sign of someone. So I don't know, I'm sure you agree.
SPEAKER_01No, I I completely agree with that. And sometimes science does change, true. We just learn more, right? Or yeah, and we do more research, and yeah, so that happens too, which I know a couple of the points that I'm gonna touch on, it's because the science has changed.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, absolutely. So and I I just think too science, while I think people want science to be very black and white, um, is often not because there's so much nuance. It's I think we want it to be like one plus two equals three. Great, that's fine, that's true, but like there are things impacting and influencing all those variables that like it's not that easy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And also I think that what might be considered optimal in certain situations isn't always going to be practical. I like that. And so having to find that middle ground is really important as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I was thinking we could just kind of ping pong, like, here's a thought I've changed my mind on, or whatever, and go back and forth till we run out of time. Yeah. All right, you start first. Okay, let me look at my list. Um, okay. I'm sure a lot of our stuff kind of um will overlap here. And I don't remember your list. I don't have that up here with me, but I'm gonna start with calories. Okay, so I definitely came or started in the camp of calories don't matter. Um I didn't know that. I did. I in fact, I have an account that is no longer that I had a whole post on like calories don't matter, and I'm like, oh, that's so embarrassing. But you know, it's because of who I was listening to, and I didn't have the the depth of like critical thinking with science to understand. Like I needed to probe a little more, but I also never went to the side of calories are all that matter because people tend to think in that extreme, like, oh well, if they don't matter, then they're all that matter. And I certainly don't believe either of those anymore. Um, I do think with the calories don't matter crowd. I like the idea though that like the emphasis is on quality, because that's usually what they're trying to say. And that was what I was just saying. Like it's all about the quality of the food you eat. Um, and I do think that's wildly important. Um, and in fact, it's like step one of when you work with me, we're gonna improve the quality of your diet. But calories still matter a hundred percent. I mean, and if I had to say one over the other, well, at the end of the day, calories are the most important, but I just think it's like calories and then quality needs to be like right up against it because filling those calories with whatever you want is still not the right answer to me.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, absolutely. You know, it's interesting because when I first started getting into my fitness journey, so to speak. I hate that phrase, by the way. I'm like, can we please come up with another one? But I wanted to lose weight, and so I was asking my mom for nutrition advice, and never once did she say, Count your calories. She was saying, eat less sugar, eat lower fat, let's go on the cabbage soup diet. So, yes, calories were being controlled, but there was never an emphasis on the actual number. And then I got into Weight Watchers, that's how I initially lost the weight. So, yes, technically I was counting calories to an extent, but I was counting points, not actual calories. But if you count the points, then the calories should align up. Although at this point, I don't know how that can possibly be because fruit apparently is calorie or point-free. Yeah. Uh yeah, I've heard some wild things. But anyway, I won't get into that. And then in high school, it was more like in college, the clean eating. So, yes, I was inadvertently controlling calories, but I don't remember ever focusing on I need to be eating 1200 or fewer, or yeah, focusing on that actual number. It was just I need to be eating clean and that's the way that I'm gonna lose the weight. Um, and then after that, I started following meal plans. So again, calories were controlled. I wasn't necessarily counting them, and then I got into macro tracking where yes, I did know my specific numbers and what those need to be. And same is true now. So that is very interesting. But I think one of the things that I have changed my mind on is to your point, not just the total calories, but the composition of those calories. And so leaning more away from the flexible dieting, like, yes, all foods can fit, but they they shouldn't necessarily. So, especially in perimenopause when our insulin sensitivity is lower, you know, we're more impacted by blood sugar swings, um, estrogen is declining, all of that. Yeah, the food quality or gut health is you know usually not optimal. So what you eat is going to make more of a difference on your physique and how you feel. So it cannot just be fit whatever junk I want into my macros and think that I'm gonna get these optimal results. Like, yes, you might lose weight, but you know, it could be harder for you to do so. You might need to eat even fewer calories as a result, or you're just gonna feel like shit. And that's not worth it either. So calories matter, but also, I mean, calories are gonna be king, but the composition of those calories at this stage in life is very much important. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And you really can't ignore it. And and I, you know, when people want to argue with me, you know, like, well, but this diet worked for me. I'm like, all diets are controlling for calories in some way. And so honestly, like, if it works for you to use a strategy that doesn't count calories, but it is considering them, like you said, great, do that. But like at some point you may plateau or you may hit up against a wall where it's hard to like, how do you eat cleaner? How you know, how do you um weight watch or you know, the points like you can't get down to zero, right? Like at some point you do need a little bit more of an accurate weight, and maybe that means counting calories, but like at some point there has to be some awareness uh to be able to make those adjustments. And so, like, this is where I think if you're real far from optimal, someone who has a lot of weight to lose, you don't have to go straight to calorie counting. Like, honestly, you could just start drinking less full sugar soda or you know, and probably drop weight. You could start to just add veggies to your meals and you're gonna drop weight, right? But at some point, right, the the leaner you get, the closer to optimal, you will probably have to use a bit more of a precision. Yes, there you go. Um, method. So I I love to go straight to calories with an emphasis on fruits and veggies, protein and fiber within your caloric budget.
SPEAKER_01Um so it's interesting, and I don't know if this is just anecdotal. However, I right now at 42 years old am maintaining my weight on I don't want to say an obscene amount of calories because it's probably less than you are eating, but when you factor it against my body weight, I would say I'm at 22 times body weight. That's a very high caloric intake. It is. And I have not always been able to get away with that. So I went through a very intense healing protocol a couple of years ago that I do feel, and I even rather than like I hate to say this, I feel like it did something to my metabolism, whether it lowered inflammation and my body just is responding better. I don't know. I'm really not that much more active, aside from the fact that I have added cardio. So that could be it. It's helping me with my insulin insulin sensitivity, excuse me. It's helping my metabolic rate because I am burning a little bit more, my fat oxidation, you know, all of that type of stuff. But I think one of the other reasons why I can eat more calories and maintain is because my diet quality is so high. And I am probably around that 95% nutrient-dense whole food. And because of that, those calories are, or excuse me, um, it's taking more calories to digest those foods. The protein, um, or maybe like I'm just not dig um absorbing as many calories because my diet is so high in fiber, uh, I really think there is something to that because we know that protein is gonna be the highest thermic effect of food. So that's gonna take the most calories. But even if you compare a serving of uh raw almonds compared to a serving of almond butter, it's gonna take more calories to digest the almonds than the almond butter. And I know that this is getting like very nitpicky, but I think it really does highlight why food quality is important.
SPEAKER_00So beneficial. I mean, yeah, it's definitely putting a lot of things, a lot of small things in your favor, right? Which, you know, to me, as someone who's trying to I don't I don't want to say optimize, but to a degree, yeah, like I want to take every little advantage I can um because I like to eat. And yeah, um, and when I say that, I don't mean that I love to eat bad food and put that in quotes, right? Because I don't love that labeling, but um, it's not that that's not like I love to eat, period, you know, like I just had a big bowl of strawberries before we got on, like, and I thoroughly enjoyed that, you know. Like um, so yeah, like I want to be able to eat as much as I can. Um, so yeah, like taking every little advantage, and it's just crazy. Like, I think part of it too is you know, giving your body the nutrients it actually needs to run. Like, yes, your body needs calories, yes, but it also needs the vitamins, the minerals, the fiber, the phytonutrients that we don't even really know about, like to run properly. So it's like you're just putting yourself in a more efficient mode.
SPEAKER_01So absolutely. Yeah, my post today was actually I said, I am a girl who loves to eat, but these are the things I absolutely will not waste my calories on. Yes, it's just not worth it. Like, I want to eat a lot of food, like a high volume, sure, more so, and that's gonna be way more enjoyable and satisfying to me than if I'm drinking liquid calories through you know, a like Starbucks frappuccino. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's delicious, but I would much I would rather chew my food.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So anyway, I feel like this could have been an entire podcast just on its own.
unknownIt really could have.
SPEAKER_00Well, maybe we do several uh parts to this, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so I will stay on the nutrition track and talk about protein. I used to die on the hill that everyone needed one gram of protein per pound of body weight. And there was even some research around that. And now it's coming out saying that I mean, just to be healthy, maintain your muscle if you are active, it could be closer to 1.2 to even like as low as 1.4 grams per kilogram of body weight. Um, probably looking closer to like 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight if you want to optimize. No, I don't want to say optimize. Uh, if you want to make sure you are building muscle or definitely maintaining muscle, especially in a deficit. But the higher your calories get, so the tort the closer you get towards maintenance or even a surplus, then that protein amount can come down because protein is what we call, or excuse me, carbohydrates are protein sparing. So because you are using that as energy, you don't need to take from the protein. So you don't need as much protein to maintain that lean muscle. Um, and yeah, I was recommending to my female clients who weighed 150 plus pounds and were barely eating 50 grams a day. Oh no, you got to eat that one gram per pound. Like I just, oh my, and don't get me wrong, I eat 1.2 grams per pound and I'm totally fine. Like the one of the reasons I track my calories is so that I don't eat 200 grams of protein a day. Because I definitely could. Um, but I know that's not the case for everybody. So now I say the minimum that I recommend is about 0.7, especially in a fat loss phase. If someone wants to eat more, totally fine. But if they don't have the appetite for it, I'm not pushing that.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely agreed. And I have the same kind of experience of like higher was better. Um, and yeah, 0.7 is my minimum for people. I I think too, there is nuance here in that like people with the best physiques, not that we necessarily want to emulate that or get to those low, low body fat percentages, but they are eating high amounts of protein, and so there is a benefit there, right? But a lot of that is like you can't do it to the the detriment of the sustainability of the diet itself. Because I absolutely have the same you know experience where like if clients are quite overweight, like they're just never gonna hit those high amounts, and like why? It's really and I think too, what we're really trying to do is just um maintain muscle, right? Like for most people, I think that's their main goal with besides hunger management, but you need enough for your muscle mass, right? And so like people at higher body fat percentages, like they probably don't have as much muscle. So like you just don't even need right in order to do that. Um, but I certainly will. So my recommendation is minimum 0.7 up to 1.2. But it depends. Like if you're super lean, you're going to be on the higher end. If you're trying to put on muscle, you're going to be on the higher end. If we're like at the tail end of a diet and like we just we're trying to gut it out for whatever reason because you want to get leaner, you're going to be on the higher end. And then there's people who are just like, you know, health reasons, they're just trying to get healthy. Okay, then you'll be on the lower end, right? Or you just have a lot of weight to lose, then you can be on the lower end. And then then there's just like I have clients who are like, but Andre, I really love protein. I want to get 140 grams. I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna stop you.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So yeah, there's really like nothing harmful. I mean, studies are even being done up to like three grams per pound of kilogram of body weight, which yeah, I could probably do to be honest with you, but I'm not going to because that would displace calories from more nutrient-tense foods. Uh, but there really are no detriments to that.
SPEAKER_00No, your kidneys can handle it so long as you have healthy kidneys. That would be my only question on that end. Um, and then it's a matter of like, can your gut handle it? Right. So that's a that's actually a point of um that needs to be addressed as someone gets older because we tend to make more like stomach or sorry, less stomach acid. Digestion tends to be poorer as you age. So those higher ends might actually be a little problematic. So um, yeah, those are I mean, it look at this is what I kept coming to with my list. Like, oh, it depends, right? There's a nuance, there's context.
SPEAKER_01So it always does. The other thing I would say about higher protein targets, and this probably doesn't apply to the majority of women that we work with because they're not competitors, they're not looking to get you know uber shredded, but the greater the deficit, the higher the protein.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, if you're uh going really low in calories, then the protein is going to be more muscle sparing for sure. But everyone says, oh, protein is so filling. And yes, to an extent, I think it helps keep you fuller longer. I mean, one, because you know, some of it can be higher in volume, but also it's going to slow down blood sugar a little bit so you don't have that spike and then that crash, which can leave you feeling hangry even. Um, but let's be honest, there are a lot of foods that are not that high in protein that are high volume and very filling. So you mentioned strawberries. I mean, how much can you eat for a hundred calories? Like a pound. So much, yeah. So much, you know, vegetables, beans, legumes, things like that. Um, so yeah, not super high in protein, but probably gonna fill you up more so than like especially eating a protein bar or drinking a protein shake, something like that.
SPEAKER_00For sure. So, my understanding, and I could be wrong because I'm okay with saying that, is it's not so much like protein in and of itself is filling because you're right, like a protein shake or like a scoop of protein powder, let's say it like that, is way less filling than me eating, let's say four ounces of chicken breast, which will have about the same amount of protein. It's really more the breakdown, like that chicken breast is just takes a lot more for my body to break down, right? So it's gonna sit in my stomach a little longer, right? So it's that part of it, it's not necessarily the protein itself that is filling, it's this whole like sitting in your system, taking a lot longer to you know break down to be absorbed. Um, that makes it more filling. So yeah, which is why like a strawberry, my bowl of strawberries, actually, I'm not even hungry anymore. Um, was filling, right? Because it's not the protein, because it doesn't have I mean, it has maybe like 0.5 grams of protein. Yeah, it's that it was filling, it has fiber and water and anyway, yeah, exactly. Are we still just on one? Or you no, no, that was your second.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I'm actually gonna piggyback on that one as well because we're talking about protein, and say, I no longer think that you have to have protein as soon as you're done with your lifting workout. I'll never forget I was dating a guy in college, and this was when I was in the weeds about nutrition. And believe, like John Berardi, I would say, even though I did not know him personally, he was a mentor to me. His precision nutrition um, I guess book is what I was reading at the time. And he was very much of the idea that meal timing matters, that you needed to be getting protein within minimum 30 minutes of a list. The anabolic window. The anabolic window, yes, which we now know is more of like a barn door. Um but I was dating this guy and we went to the gym together. And I, we were walking like through the mall because that's where the gym was, and I had this protein shake, and I like forced on him. I was like, you have to drink this right now. And he was like, What? Like, why? Um, and that's just what I believed, and I believed that for a very long time. So uh, I mean, it can matter to an extent, especially if you are someone who works out first thing in the morning, you train fasted. Yes, in that situation, if you have gone extended hours, especially overnight without getting any protein, I would say try to have something within 30 minutes to an hour. But if not, you probably have a let's say two hour window. Because if you did eat one to maybe even three hours before your training session, protein takes a very long time to break down. So those amino acids are still circulating your system once your workout is done. So you don't need to worry about the timing.
SPEAKER_00No, I honestly, yeah, I've moved away from meal timing, well, protein timing. Um except in the case, like if you're seriously trying to put on muscle, then you do want to have amino acids in the system as much as possible. So in that case, then you're gonna want a good dose, you know, every like three to four hours to just have. But I mean, even then, like total protein for you know, the day is what's gonna matter the most. But I would say like you could optimize it a little bit to just continually have that again, the amino acids available because muscle building, fat loss, whatever is always happening. It's not just like, well, now my body is burning fat. Like, no, all these processes are simultaneously, you know, happening. So um that would be the only time. But honestly, I don't coach those that type of person that's like trying to like put on massive amounts of let's say muscle or like really get to super lean where we even need to do that. So yeah, like just get in the amount you need in the good stuff.
SPEAKER_01All right, what do you have any more that are nutrition related? I'm thinking because we only have what, like five more minutes or so that we make this one all nutrition and then the next can be more training and fitness. Yeah, that'll work. I do.
SPEAKER_00Um, here's a good one. Ready? I used to think all sugar was bad.
SPEAKER_01Ooh.
SPEAKER_00Like I used to run, like I literally called it a sugar detox. I will I will give myself a little credit that it wasn't necessarily like as extreme, but like it certainly I was using that language, that verbiage. Um, and it just it it's gonna obviously bring out extremes in people. Um, but I certainly was, especially when I was keto and in the low carb land, uh, even sugar and fruit was bad. So I had no nuance. It was just like sugar's bad. And I, you know, and I still have people come to me today, like, oh, I need to like eliminate all sugar. And I'm like, do you? Because your your body really likes glucose. Um, especially if you're training hard. Exactly, right? Um, so yeah, I've absolutely like overhauled this whole thinking here of like all sugar is bad, which is very simple, and I get it, like it gets clicks and people like simple ideas, but it's not that simple. Um, I certainly do believe that excess like added sugar, processed sugar is detrimental to your health. Like, please don't take that as a like, I'm gonna go mainline, you know, white sugar, table sugar. Um, but like we do not need to fear sugar in fruit, um, even veggies or like even other foods where I I was listening to, I don't know, podcasts, and the guy was saying how uh he wouldn't eat like a chicken if it had like seasoning that had sugar in it, you know, and it's like, oh God, you know, we're certainly going way too far if it's like one gram of sugar in a seasoning, you know. So this is like the the the danger of putting things, you know, on lists of bad and good, but also like trying to just sugar is bad. That's like that's a huge statement. We're like and doesn't leave room for nuance for anyone.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And again, it instills a lot of food fear in people. And I was the same way. So in college, I did not eat sugar, everything was fake sugar. So the Splenda, the Walland Farms, the Diet Coke, the sugar-free gum, because I wanted the taste of sugar, but I did not want the actual sugar or the calories because I thought it was bad. And I did not eat fruit. And it wasn't until my friends basically staged an intervention with me that, like, hey, we're noticing these patterns in your eating that you know aren't normal and we think you need some help, that I did go to the campus nutritionist and got support around that. And like, I will never forget it. It is a vivid memory. I was downstairs in my sorority house and where we had all of the like where our computers were set up. So when you did not, when you were like a room owner, so to speak, you were just sharing it with someone who was older than you. Then you had to do all of your work downstairs in this dungeon. And I ate a banana for the first time in probably years, and I was so proud of myself. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm actually allowing myself to eat this fruit, which is laden with sugar. And I was totally fine. But even after that, when I was dealing with my autoimmune disease, so this would have been mid-20s and going very in or getting very in the weeds with my diet. And not, I'm trying to think. I guess I didn't eat a whole lot of sugar at that time, but I did one of those whole 30s, which I know you did them as well. Yep. And I mean, talk about just again creating very disordered relationship with food. What you had said about having to look like be neurotic about labels and look, does this have does this spice have sugar in it? Was this bacon cured in sugar? And if so, you couldn't have it. And I think like I I understand like looking back, and they have since changed their guidelines, thank God. But I think it was because that they knew that people could be obsessive and they wanted to make it a little more black and white. So they're not necessarily saying, oh, the sugar that your bacon is cured in or these spices that you're putting on your food is gonna lead to waking or is detrimental to your health. But if someone is reading the label and they see sugar, they're like, well, can I have that or can I not? Because like it's not technically, you know, sugar that I'm just mainlining because I have this craving. So it probably was just uh yeah, needing to make it a little bit more cut and dry, but still, I don't think the majority of people who were following that plan knew that. And so yeah, talk about just a way to create an eating disorder in somebody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, and I even found myself just like be like um participating in like some disordered habits there, you know. Like I don't I never had an eating disorder, but certainly like things like the whole 30, even like paleo, keto, anything that was like highly restrictive, like was pushing me towards disordered habits and behaviors. And I could not see that it was only like you know, in comparison to like people around me that I was like, uh, okay, like, but should everybody be doing this? Like, and you know, you gotta kind of wonder, like, again, I'm not saying sugar is healthy, I'm not saying either of those things. I am saying, like, but what's mentally healthy, physically healthy, you know, and like context again, like having so it was my mom's birthday yesterday, you know, we didn't actually have cake, but like if we had had a piece of cake, that would have been completely appropriate, you know, and like under my under former Andre's like ideas, I would have been like, no, I can't. And I would have, and I've I've been that person. Um and like how, you know, I I'm missing out. Uh, you know, people around me are like, well, what like it's okay, get your mom's birthday, you know. Like we have to consider other pieces, but I understand that like people want simple, and you know, sugar is bad, eliminate sugar is a very easy thing to hold on to, but it's not necessarily gonna be the result that you want. And by the way, and I'm sure you had the same experience when I did all these things, I still didn't get the results I wanted because 100% go back to my first one, like because calories matter, it's not sugar. Still don't eat a ton of it, but I mean anyway.
SPEAKER_01No, I agree. And funny, you mentioned that about the cake because we celebrated my brother's birthday, which was on Wednesday last night, and I made the family tradition, which is the Duncan Heinz yellow cake with chocolate frosting that we have for every single birthday. Unfortunately, I make it, I can't eat it because it has gluten in it. Uh, but could I, then yeah, please believe I would have enjoyed a piece. Yes. So uh I'm gonna do I'm gonna do one more quick one. Okay. And because I think that will wrap up all the nutrition. So if you are tracking macros, you must track all three macros the protein, carbs, and fats. And I still think that there can be some utility. I personally do it just because I don't mind. But the majority of women that I work with, you know, they're already overwhelmed most of the time trying to track. So I just say, let's focus on what is going to be king and queen. So calories first, protein second, and then at this point, definitely fiber. So as long as you're tracking those three things, or yeah, those three, then fat and carbs can fall where they may based on personal preference.
SPEAKER_00And there's plenty of research that shows that you know, weight loss, fat loss is similar amongst different macro splits. So if you're a high carb person or you're a fat, you know, high fat person, um, you're gonna have similar as long as, of course, calories are controlled. But I I'm the same, like um protein fiber, calories, like those are the things that are the most important. I really don't care about your carbs and fat unless you're a person who just like it's helpful to have those targets so that you're just not going too extreme, you know. Because I tell people, I don't care if you want to be high fat, so long as we're still getting enough fiber. So if it starts to crowd that out, well, then we have a problem, right? Or vice versa. You're so high carb that like your fat intake is just super low. Like when we don't want that either, right? So, I mean, we still want to be smart about those ratios, but it's just not gonna move the needle as much as people want it to. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I mean at the end of the day, and we know that adherence is number one when it comes to making progress. So if you enjoy a higher fat or higher carb diet and you can allow yourself that, then that's gonna make it easier to stick to. And that is the name of the game. So, yes, I will give them minimums, let's say minimum 40 grams of fat. Don't dip below that. But once that base has been covered, you're getting your 25 plus grams of fiber, then the rest isn't really gonna matter all that much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you know, I think that's really nice too for people because most people don't eat the same exact every single day, or you might have an event or whatnot, right? So it's nice to be like, oh, well, yesterday just ended up being a higher carb day because of what I had available. Today I feel like being a little more high fat, whatever, you know, like you have that flexibility. You don't have to be locked in.
SPEAKER_01Right. Could you imagine if I said, Oh, your fat target is 40 grams and these people want to go out to dinner? Well, sorry. You better not eat all day, just egg whites and and then chick chicken salad for you.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. The moment you eat out or you know, just want something a little higher fat. Like it ain't happening with 40 grams.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00If you're eating out, you need at least 60, probably.
SPEAKER_01At least, yeah. Especially if you want to eat previously in the day. Correct.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Earlier in the day, I should say. Um, all right. Are we good? I think we're good. That's a good start. And I think this could be a little um series we do because like I said, I could have kept going. Round two to come.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful.
SPEAKER_01All right, my friend. Have a great rest of the day, and we'll chat too.
SPEAKER_00You too. All right. Bye.