Episode 25: How to Make the Most of Your Lifting Sessions

If you've been lifting but not seeing the results you expected, this episode is for you. We break down exactly what it takes to make your time in the gym work for you.  Because in midlife, lifting isn't optional. It's one of the most powerful tools you have for staying lean, building muscle, and feeling strong in your body long term. But how you do it absolutely matters.

What we cover in this episode: 

• Why lifting is non-negotiable for women in midlife and perimenopause
• The importance of following a structured program for several months at a time instead of constantly switching things up
• How to create progressive overload and why it's the driving force behind real results
• Why you need to track your lifting sessions
• The importance of rest periods between sets and why rushing them is costing you
• Tempo and controlled reps over rushing through the movement
• Taking your sets to or close to failure and why feeling the burn isn't the goal
• The most effective rep ranges for muscle growth
• Why recovery — sleep, nutrition, and rest days — is part of the program, not an afterthought

Loved this episode? Leave a review, share it with a friend in midlife, and follow along for more real talk on health, fitness, and feeling good in your body at every age.

Connect With Us:

@marcinevin 

@eats_by_dre_nutrition

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Marcy.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Dre, how are you, my friend? Happy Fourth of July weekend.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Yes. It's so crazy. It's on a Saturday, which is it really doesn't matter, but it's always kind of cool when it happens that way.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

I like it. Because I feel like having a holiday midweek just screws up the rest of the week. Yeah. Throws you off. And I like structure and routines. I know, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

And right now I feel really like not grounded in just like time. Like people will be like, okay, so Friday. I'm like, when's Friday? And they're like, today. I'm like, oh, today. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Very ungrounded right now. But.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

And here we are recording on a Friday, which usually we record on Sunday. But I said to you, I'm going to be going out of town. Yeah. A little bit of a break. I'm so excited. I definitely need one.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

It's terrible timing, I'm going to be honest, because I started this new business mentorship program officially about two weeks ago because that was my first call with one of the coaches. And even before that call, I have had so much onboarding work to do. It feels like these massive projects. So I get one out of the way, and then I have a call, and then I have another big one to put on my plate. I get that out of the way. I'm like, oh, sense of relief. And then I get a third to put on my plate. And it's stuff that I'm not great at. I'm just going to admit. And I know that's not a growth mindset. It's a fixed mindset. Right, right. Right. I'm not great at technology. I'm not great at design. It's truth. It just is. Yeah. We can admit our weaknesses and you can't be good at everything. No, I mean, I'm a journalism major. I have a double emphasis in PR and magazine editing. So you'd think that I would be good with it. No, I had to peep, I had to have my classmates do my Photoshop and Page Maker projects because I couldn't figure it out.

unknown 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

So anyway, I'm doing all this Canva work and having to record videos, and it's just a lot. I know it's going to be really good for me, but right now I'm in the thick of it. And it would have been great to have the week. Oh, because I was supposed to have a call yesterday. And the pro like this next project, no, it wasn't necessarily due. He's like, get through as much of it as you can, and we'll talk about it. Well, he had to cancel the call yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Oh no. What a bummer. I mean, I was a little annoyed because he canceled it 45 minutes before.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah. It was one of those things like he got stuck in traffic. I know life happens, so I can't fault him for that. But I didn't see the Slack message until 8.05 when our call was supposed to be at 8. Ah yeah, he had sent it at like 7:15. So I was like, you know what? It's kind of frustrating because I plan my morning around this, but now it buys me another week to finish this project, which I do, but it would have been really nice to be able to have the weekend to work on it. And I'm heading out of town tomorrow morning through probably Sunday afternoon, which is why we needed to record today because I just don't know with holiday traffic what it's people coming back from Lake Tahoe and so it could be ugly. All that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

So you're traveling for fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Traveling for fun, yes. My mom and I are going to my cousin's party, which I went to last year. Unfortunately, she could not go at the last minute because she ended up getting COVID.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Oh, I feel like this is somewhat familiar to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yeah. So we went out to lunch with my uncle the day before 4th of July. He was in town, and my mom was having a hard time talking. She's like, Yeah, I just kind of have like a scratchy throat, sore throat. I don't really feel sick. Maybe it's allergies. And then the next morning she texts me, she's like, I just tested positive for COVID, so I can't go. So I look for myself. And it's a two-hour drive out there. And I stayed at the party, had a really nice time just with my family. They're great. And then I made the trip back that same day, which is a pretty quick turnaround and like a long time in the car one day. So we're gonna drive out there tomorrow morning and then spend the night with my aunt because my uncle, least favorite uncle, so I don't have to deal with him at the party. I hate saying that, but it's the truth. Yeah. Um, he had quite quadruple bypass surgery yesterday. Yeah. So I think it'll be good for her to have some company and yeah, just we can take our time getting back and I think it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yay, yeah. Just getting out of the house, out of the city is something fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

And I will say, you know, we always talk about the weather on this podcast, but it has not felt like summer so far. We talked about today. Oh, today for you. So 90. Oh, it's only like I think maybe 80 today. So it's been in the 70s the past couple of weeks, but heading out there, it's gonna be in the 90s. It's just wild because in Danville, where I live, it's usually in the 90s to 100s on 4th of July. So this has been a very welcome break, but I want to get out of Dodge because I don't like crowds. I do not need to be at the parade. You've seen one parade, you've seen them all. Yeah, not my vibe.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah. Yeah, the summer's been really lovely down here. It's been, yeah, high 70s, mid mid to high 70s, kind of creeping into the 80s, but today is the first day. It's it's hitting 90 today, and I'm like, oh no. But it's not triple digit, and 90 is very different than 100.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

So it says it says 84 right now. I guess I lied. I mean, I'm inside with no AC on, so it is a little warm. Yeah, let's see.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, it's well it's 86 right now, so that's already hot. 80. I think we talked about this. Once you hit 80, I'm hot.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

So once I hit 78, I'm hot.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Give me 75 all day. Oh, yes. I mean 68 to about 75. Oh, I could do 60s for sure. Yes. Like breeze. Yes. Yeah, once we hit 80, I'm gonna start complaining because I'm gonna start melting.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

So where you are down south, because you're not super close to the beach, right? 45 minutes. You're more okay, so you're more inland. You don't get the May Gray, June gloom, do you?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

It's interesting. So because I'm up against the foothills, I can see it. So this is funny, I was just telling a c um a friend this that where I live, I'm a little bit elevated because I'm up against the foothills. And then when I used to teach, I could see the city from when I would leave. I'd be coming down the hill, and I could see the marine layer kind of hanging out, and I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna get out of the car, my hair is gonna frizz. I can s I can already see the cloud that I'm gonna end up in, and it would annoy me. Um but one great thing about perimenopause and now being postmenopause is my hair has changed and it can handle um kind of like humid and like wet weather like that where you know it's foggy. I think too, my grays are really coming in. My gray hair is also very different in terms of the texture. So I'm like, that's one great thing, is I have I still have, I can retain good hair in bad weather. So but to answer your question Is your hair not as coarse?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Is your hair not as coarse?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

I think it's actually more coarse because my hair is very fine, and so um I think with perimenopause the change in hormones, it's it's gotten a little drier. Um, and then the white hair is very like coarse, and so yeah, it just it's not affected by weather.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

That's what I meant. Is your gray white hair more coarse? I noticed when I I will pluck mine out wild Friday night plucking my gray hairs and oh and my chin hairs as well, just like love to show up out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

That hasn't happened yet.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Oh yeah, no, on wood. I even with my low testosterone, it still happens. Um, but I noticed that my gray hairs are like wires. Yes, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

So no real like marine layer, um, but being up against the foothills, I think you know, we're just kind of in a little bit of a different ecosystem, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

So yeah, it's just interesting. Whenever we go to visit my beach house, I always went one week during the summer and then one week or a couple of days for Thanksgiving. And in the morning, it was always foggy because like our house is like literally on the beach.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

So you would get that fog until maybe noon and then it would burn off and it would usually be lovely after that. But in November, I mean it's crystal clear, it can be in the 80s, that's the best time of year to go.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

People don't realize the yeah. I would we were talking about this. I'm thinking of coming in September. So if you want to drive up and meet me, yes, I'd that'd be amazing. I'd love it. I gotta keep a week open on my calendar so head-sitting jobs don't get booked over it.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yeah, there you go. Cause I love the beach. That's like if I could live anywhere, it would be at the beach. I just like feel I don't know, home. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Yeah, and I love being I don't love being in the water. I love being on the water, next to the water, but I say I am my best self when I'm on the lake on the boat. So I'm more of like a mountain person than I am beach. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

No, I like to be in the water, around the water, near the water. I want to see the water, water, water, water. I know. I'm a Taurus, very grounded.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

And I'm Aquarius, the water bearer. Maybe that does make sense that I feel best by the water. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, well, good stuff. So shall we get into it?

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Let's do it. Um, we chatted and we want to kind of go in a direction we haven't gone and talk training um and best practices. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yes. I don't think we've ever had a full training episode. We've done things that we changed our mind about when it comes to fitness, but never talking about how can you get the most out of your training and specifically your lifting workouts. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Because I mean it's really I don't love hacks. I don't love silver, you know, or what's it called? Um is it a silver bullet? Is that what I'm trying to say? Whatever. You know what I'm trying to say. Um I don't like saying like, oh, it's this one thing, but I really think it's uh such a missing piece for most women um as they age, especially especially going into perimenopause, right? Like if you could do one thing, I'd be like, you need to start lifting. Just it's literally the gold you're looking for. Um, you know, but it's hard. And it's not just like, oh, I could take this pill. It requires effort and like mounting effort, you know, over time.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And so I gotta say, then I guess this is the one benefit of social media is the importance of strength training, especially for women, perimenopause, post-menopause, is really coming to the forefront. And so I think a lot of women are taking it more seriously, which is wonderful. And I have four in-person clients right now, all of whom are amazing. I love these women so much. I'm very grateful to have them in my life, and just that I am able to provide them with the knowledge, but also of safe space to be lifting in an appropriate manner to best build muscle and strength. But they range in age from 54 to 78. Nice. And my 78-year-old client, this woman is a badass. Like she is strong.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

And she just gets stronger and stronger, she pushes her. I mean, she's pushing herself to failure, you know. So it's pretty impressive what can be done, and just a testament that it is never too late to start.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Never too late. Um, but I would say the sooner the better. I mean you'll have a much easier time with it. But yeah, it's never too late. I mean, I think we I don't know that we talked about her here, but Joan, she's pretty popular on Instagram. I think her handles like lift with Joan. She she didn't start till she was 70, and she's in amazing shape now. And I'm pretty sure she's around 80 now, if not. Um, and what she's done in that decade. I mean, starting at 70 seems, you know, hopeless, I would say, to some people, like, oh, that's too late. It's not. She went, you know, basically from poor health, sedentary, overweight, to I mean, she's just moving around so well. She's lifting, she looks great, she looks like she has so much life in her. Um, she's lost, you know, yes, some weight too, um, and looks good. I just think what a testament to what you can do. But hey, what if you even started earlier?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Absolutely. And I was telling you offline that my 78-year-old client unfortunately just got diagnosed with Alzheimer's, which is devastating, but she's keeping a really positive mindset about it. And I think she easily could have said, Oh, I have this diagnosis.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Why even bother continuing to work out? Things are just gonna go downhill from here, but who knows? Maybe if she continues to show up, she sees me two days per week and she is consistent as the day is long. Then, you know, hopefully it could even I don't want to say necessarily reverse, but slow down the depression.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

I think for sure you can slow it down. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I think that's a huge piece. I know, so I I know people know that like I've been dealing with my mom's health. She had pancreatitis and my grandmother who has dementia. So, you know, I've I've uh basically stepped into this caretaker role for both of them. And I can't tell you how happy I am and grateful that I already have a base of fitness because while yes, this is mentally and emotionally draining for sure. Seeing your people sick and having to care for them, I mean, I'm happy to do that. There's a lot of physical um parts to this, you know, like these these ladies need help moving, you know. My mom's very weak right now. I mean, after having been in the hospital so long. My grandmother, you know, she's 80, she's about to be 86. Um, she doesn't move very well. And so I'm constantly, you know, having to help them in and out of cars and walk here to there. And, you know, I'm just thinking, you know, for my grandmother, man, I wish I could instill in her how much she could use some strength training so that she could continue to retain as much independence, you know. And my mom, I'm already telling her, once you're ready, like I'm taking you to the gym. Like, we're not we're not gonna let this become a slide where you just become, you know, your health declines. And I can just see how important it is to retain this it's not even about aesthetics at this point, it's just retaining the ability to sit and stand and walk yourself to the car and and then be able to like do life. Like I know my mom, you know, loves her grandchildren. She loves being a grandmother, and so she wants to get back to being a grandma. Fun, you know, my niece told her the other day, Grandma, I hope you get um, I hope you get better soon because then you can watch me and we can have fun. Oh, you know, and my mom's like, Oh, you think I'm fun? Like, you're so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

You know, I've had a couple of nice online client wins. So one is early 50s, and she actually follows the same strength training program that I do. We're both in this crew program with Jordan Lips, and it's a hypertrophy-based program, but obviously you are gonna get stronger along the way. And she's doing the four-day per week program, and in her check-in this past week, because she was out of town over the weekend and she had to fly. Like it felt so good because I was just easily able to pick up my suitcase and overhead press it into the online or the online container, you know, the overhead bin. And then I have another client, I think she's early 60s, and she's been with me for four years now, has been consistently strength training that entire time, and has lost 40 pounds. Wow. But also, she was at a event with her, I don't know, her not oh my god, it's gonna say grandson, um, nephew, and he's like, You look jacked. And she was she was more excited to someone say that she looked jacked, they're like, Wow, you lost weight. So yeah, I just I really like the shift that is happening.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah, I I yes, it just it absolutely makes it easier. Um, I don't want to say to convince, but to help women see how important it is and not feel like, uh, like what are you telling trying to tell me to do and I'm gonna be weird, you know. Like there's more and more women I think showing up in the gym. And I've already said it several times on this podcast. I would love to have a an all-female gym to just create a space that's safe, that's fun, uh, that's inspiring. Because right now the gym space can be a little annoying to say. Don't get don't get concerted. I know we we don't want it to turn into bashing what we're it's all men.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

The the worst offender are all men. Leave it at that. Um, I don't know if I told this story last week, but I was doing a 10-day house-sitting job, and the woman is 77. Her husband died last year, so she's alone, has never really strength trained before. She's very small, and she's tinier than me, from like she's probably five foot one, and I would say, I don't know, maybe a hundred pounds, so not a whole lot of muscle on her. And she was at the San Francisco airport, and she fell and fractured her patella. So she she decided to get on the airplane anyways. I'm like, what are you doing? So she was laid up in the hospital the entire 10 days, managed to get home, and now is lying on the couch in a brace. But that could have been even worse. You know, my mom shattered her patella two and a half years ago um and luckily didn't need to have surgery and recovered pretty well. But gosh, it's like that could have been a hip. And we know like there have been, I guess, studies done that what is it? What's the the statistic that if a woman who's past 60 falls and breaks a hip or you know, any type of like bone, yes, they're at such a greater percentage to die within that year. And it's so sad because this woman she wanted me to write her a strength training program to start once she got back. So I ordered her a weight bend, she had like five pound dumbbells. Okay, and I was like, all right, well, it's gonna be a while. So we'll start that when you recover, but hopefully, this is incentive to yeah, start building muscle, especially if you're someone who lives alone. My mom trips and falls all the damn time. And I'm like, and she doesn't strength train, she goes to Pilates, she goes to yoga, which is great, she walks, but I'm like, woman, you have no muscle mass or very little.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yes, and that's that is such a huge piece of why I think so many women struggle metabolically, um, to lose weight, and you know, even just to feel good, is that there's this, you know, loss of muscle, which is natural as you age because you do tend to move less and demand less of your body, but like we're we also live longer because of modern medicine, so we kind of have to um kind of even that out by by strength training. You you you're gonna have to be a little more intentional, um, and that would help that helps so much. I mean, I I just know the biggest difference between me as a 48-year-old and someone who's not doing what I'm doing. Like, I'm able to manage my health and yes, weight in there so much easier because I have been strength training and continue to do that as a priority regardless of what's happening. I'm I mean, like, I have all the reason to give up training right now because of what's happening, and I refuse. I'm just adapting and making it work, but like I won't let it go. Like, it's just I know it's my lifeline, especially as I'm creeping in on creeping up on 50. Like, it's funny I did a story, I don't know, last night and it was just like the the women you see that were strong at 50 didn't start at 50. They started in their 40s, if not earlier, you know, and so yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

I'm glad that I started at essentially 12, not necessarily doing it the right way, but Yeah. I was doing something, but I guess that ties nicely into what our best practices.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yes. So I mean there's there's a ton. What's that? What would you say is number one? Oof, number one. I'm gonna say you need to train. I'm gonna say it uh with purpose. Meaning this is I mean, exercise is great. I I never ever want to discourage someone from movement. If there's something you enjoy doing, please do it. Like movement is needed. I I think the statistics is somewhere around the 70% mark of Americans who are not moving enough. Okay, so we're not meeting even just the bare minimum. So I am not here to say like um I'm not here to discourage, I guess. But when it comes to lifting and strength training, this is not the place to just be like, oh, I'm gonna try something new today, or I want to do what that influencer is doing, or I'm gonna try this new trend. Like, this is the place where you need purpose for for it to be really effective, you need a plan. And I know people don't love this, and you need to stick to that plan. I tell my clients minimum three months. I really think you need to keep that plan in place so you can actually progress, you can actually see, give yourself the time for your muscles to adapt. See yourself get strong, like if you're constantly changing your plan or you have no plan, how how are you assessing how effective? And that's just not how you know muscle building works, you know, like it it's not gonna happen by haphazardly lifting, right? So I think that would be my number one is like you do not approach this willy-nilly. It need you need a plan that you are gonna stick to minimum three months. I usually stick to my programs for six months, and that's about the time where I'm like, it's time for me to switch things up, but oh, ooh, and I'm like six weeks. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

But that's because I'm following someone else's training program.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

I will say to be fair, he does not change it very much at all. So typically, like we've had RDLs in that program I would say for two years straight. Right. So he will change the rep range slightly. Uh two months ago or the past two months, we were doing cluster sets, which were interesting. That's something that I had never done before, which I really enjoyed. Yeah. So yeah, like the the structure will change a bit, but the exercise itself won't necessarily so set or not even set range because she typically only does uh why can I not talk do I like putting together words only programs two to three sets and it might just change the order. So okay, RGL is second in the program instead of first, or we're doing six to eight, and then we're doing eight to ten. So it'll vary in that regard. And then if there is another exercise, maybe we'll run that for two cycles, but again, the ref range will change. So pretty much we're doing the same exercises for I would say at least 12 weeks at a time. And then there are certain that just show up, you know, month after month for years on end, because you really can't replicate an RDL. There is no other exercise that is going to come close, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Um and I think it's a lot like nutrition, right? Like I'll tell clients, I we're not gonna create new protein options. You you're you you've got the basics, we're not gonna find a new chicken. Like it's always gonna be chicken, turkey, beef, and fish. Like that's it. That's not where you're gonna get your variety. Your variety is gonna come from flavoring, right? And so spend your time there. Don't try looking for all these new protein options. Flavor it differently, right? And it's kind of the same with like lifting, you know, you're not gonna get away from hinging and squatting and lunging and pressing and pulling. Everything is some variation of that. Um, you know, and like what you're saying with RDLs, you could do so much. I mean, certainly the basics are there, but you can do a B stance, you could do tempo, you could do a pause, you could do a rotation, you could do both legs, single leg, like it there's so much variety, but you're never gonna get away from hinge at the hips. Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Bread and butter. The bread and butter, yeah. Hinge, squat, lunge, press, pull, essentially. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even let's say a press, you could do a straight overhead press, you could do a 45 degree, which is gonna hit more of the chest, you could do a 60 degree incline, which is a little more front delts. So it but even that can be nice to just give enough variety where people aren't feeling completely bored because we want to make sure. I mean, I'm at the point now, you are as well. In many of our clients, I mean, I would say all of our clients, uh where they're bought into the boring, and that's just how it's gonna be. And whenever I meet someone in person who I'm gonna be training, I'm like, just so you know, this is not novelty. So we're not gonna be doing something different every time we're in here. Sometimes I have to to an extent when I'm with my in-person clients, just based on what's going on on the gym in the gym that day, but we're still doing the same movement patterns. Yeah. And they are continuing to progress week after week. I mean, I've got one client right now who's almost pressing four plates per side on the leg press. So I'm like moly moly, right? But anyway, so I would completely agree, purpose and intention, but following a structured program. And if you are a newbie, yes, I would say 12 weeks minimum because in the initial, gosh, even a couple of months, it's all neuromuscular atomic, anyways. So, you know, you kind of go in there and you feel like Bambi because you've never done something before. So it's gonna take a couple of weeks to really grease that groove and become familiar with the movement patterns, nail your form, and then from there you can really start to progress. But that is why someone who is new to lifting can make gains so quickly.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

And then once those are have kind of plateaued, then it's gonna be more challenging to progress in weight or reps week after week. But that's where the muscular adaptation will occur.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Absolutely. And I like to encourage people, like I get that it's not ideal, and some people just really like that novelty more. And so I encourage them, get it with your cardio then. You you can absolutely go go do a spin class, go do a whatever the newest thing is, have fun with those things, enjoy that, and you can have a ton of variety there, but like strength training is just not the place. And I really don't love some of these programs that are so short and they give people the illusion that they're strength training, but like we're just not giving the body time to really adapt. And I don't know about you, you're an in-person trainer, so you probably see this more, or you can correct it more, is that most women are afraid to really push their limits. And so, what are you really accomplishing in a short amount of time? I highly doubt you're really getting to where you need to. Whereas if I tell you you have to stick to this for three months, let's just say, at some point I know that that 10 reps is getting easy, and I can just say 11 and now 12. And then by the time we get to 15, I'm like, we're gonna bump that way. You know, like you just have time to progress versus like, well, okay, my you know, four weeks is done, I'm gonna start something new, and then you just start that whole process again of like acclimating but never pushing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

So but repetition is the mother of mastery, yes, that's how we gotta do it over and over again. Yeah, continue to solidify that form, and then that's what's gonna allow you to progress from a weight and rep perspective as well while also staying safe in the process. Correct. So do you have an example? I would say just a piggyback on your point of training close to failure. So, you know, we cannot be leaving four or five reps in the tank, it's at this point anywhere from I would say zero to three. And that doesn't mean that you have to be lifting super hard. Right. So it's been shown anywhere from as low as five to as high as 30 reps can lead to muscular gains, hypertrophy, if that's the scientific term you want to use. So if you don't feel as comfortable loading up a heavy barbell or picking up heavy weights, or you don't have access to that, because there are some women, you know, my own clients included, who work out at home and they only have access to a bench and dumbbells. It's like, I'm sorry, then you're gonna have to be doing higher reps, which one bores me to tears. And I I used to do, I would say, you know, anywhere from eight to fifteen, never more than that. But now the majority of my sets are I would say five to ten. If I'm doing over ten, it's time, I'm not happy about it. I would much, much prefer heavier and lower.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Well, and the the downside of that is that's time intensive. I mean if you're doing 15, 20 reps of everything, now you're training longer. So that's like something you do have to like consider with the person too, is how long do you have to train? And if someone tells me I only have 20 to 30 minutes, and like we're gonna have to find a way to create that intensity, then, especially if it's you know, that's a lot of my clients too. They're training from home, they have limited equipment. Like, well, then that intensity has to come from somewhere. And I mean, I don't know about you, I do not all clients do I create a program for only if they want it. Um we will use things like tempo, pauses, um, you know, reps. What's that? One and a half reps, yes, ways to create that intensity if we cannot use weights because I don't want somebody spending an hour because now we have to do 20 million reps to get the intensity. Um, you know, I tell clients, I want you to try to do a push-up and take 10 seconds to lower. I could personally, and I can pump out like 25 push-ups right now. If you ask me to do that, I could maybe do three to five. Taking 10, I'm just like shaking and like great. I only have to do three reps. And I could just completely destroy my chest and triceps.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Exactly. Well, the other thing too is I think a lot of people associate the burn with set being done. So if you're doing sets of, I would say even starting at 12 and going to 2030, it's gonna be burning way before your muscles are giving out. So you likely are gonna be cutting it short and then shortchanging your progress because you are not getting close to failure. That's why, yeah, if I'm doing a set of six to eight, then that first rep is gonna feel heavy.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah. Already. If you're doing six to eight, you're already like shit. Shit.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yeah, like oh fuck, why I'm in it.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yes. So something I will kind of have clients experiment with if I am wondering how intense, you know, because I'm not in person with my clients. Um is I will tell them, hey, let's do something very like low risk, like a bicep curl. And I want you to pick what you feel like is a moderate to heavyweight fine. And I just want you to do as many as you can, like until literally you cannot lift it anymore. And then they come back and they're like, holy shit, Andre, I thought I could only do 10 to 12 because it did get hard at 10 to 12, but I did 30. And I'm like, correct. Please go buy some new dumbbells. And by the way, you're gonna be really sore. But it'll it's just your bicep, you'll be fine. It's you know, and it's very, like I said, low risk. You know, I would never have somebody do that with like a leg movement, especially if I'm not there, but like something easy that like everybody can push. And I'm like, I want that muscle shaking. That's your last rep, and you cannot get it up. Tell me how many you do. And like, yeah, they're like, holy cow, I've left so much on the table. And I'm like, correct. This is why you don't have the physique you want.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Exactly. Yep, you've been sandbagging.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Yep, and we're all guilty of it. I do it too. I know it sometimes. Sometimes I just don't have the bandwidth because when I have one of those days where it's like, it's I'm gonna push, I I fear the gym those days. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna want to. I know how tough it's gonna be. And I whine and I complain. Because I know it's gonna freaking hurt.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

I don't fear it as much on upper body days, but definitely lower body. Oh man, when I was training at that powerlifting gym back in 2016-17, I would lose sleep. Those workouts pushed me mentally and physically further than I have ever been. I saw stars. Yeah, my the training sessions were like three hours long sometimes. I mean, it was so intense. And yeah, I would be up, I would wake up in the middle of the night and just be terrified of going in there the next day. And I didn't know what I would be doing. I would show up and he's like, okay, we're doing high rep back squats, or we're doing it, it just oh, it was so awful.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

I will say too, I just want to make sure I don't think every day in the gym should be like that. I don't think every day you need to be on the verge of barfing or you should be scared, but you should be, you should have those days sprinkled in where you are pushing past your limits. That's the whole point. Uh but I don't think every session needs to be all out red, you know, redlining. That that can be dangerous. And we we still need to recover from it, right? So there's room for what you're saying, too. Like sometimes high rep is great that we can do that, we can use that. And so I just want to be clear. We're not like saying go to failure on every single freaking rep. That's gonna be Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Well, Eva when I was doing the powerlifting program, we followed something called the conjugate method. Okay, yeah. It was are you familiar with that? I am. Yeah, so we would have our max effort upper and lower body days where you were really taking it to the house and it was heavy, so you know, five steps to five, back squats, deadlifts, all of that. And then you would have your repetition days, which were lighter weight, not necessarily super high rep, but you were doing what's called speed work. So maybe it's 50 to per 50, 60 percent of your max, and you're doing 10 sets of three, but like as quickly as you can.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

So that was giving your nervous system a little bit of a break. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

So again, I think that goes back to there's so many ways that you can create variety. Um, but you have to be creative or have, you know, a programmer who can be creative for you. It's it's just not gonna be in switching up your movements themselves every single week.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

So no, definitely stay away from that, please. And even outside of the gym, there are ways that you can create variety in your life. So, because we talk about it a lot with your nutrition, and people are opposed to eating the same meals day after day because okay, well, then mix it up in your personal life. I'll leave it at that. Or yeah, like go out and just have fun in other ways. There's plenty of opportunities to create novelty. You just got to be intentional about seeking them out. And I'm sorry, but when you get results, that is not boring.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

No, and that kind of reinforces, right? Oh, this works. And like honestly, I just got tired of because that there was somebody who's pretty big in the space, but I won't name him. I was following his stuff, and every week was a different program. And I get that people like that, but like there's also like a time component, like having to figure out the this new movement and where it is and set up, you know, that what's really nice about doing a program for let's say 12 weeks is like you get into a rhythm and you can just get in there, do the thing, and get out, right? Instead of like, okay, I I think I need a bench, wait, at this height, what about that, you know, and you're trying to figure out you know the optimal, your optimal positioning, yada yada, and then like that's time consuming. Like, I I don't want to be redoing this every week.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

It can be mentally draining, it can be frustrating because even though I've been I mean I have a very long training history at this point, there have been times when I'm following someone's program and there's a new exercise that I have not done before, and I feel like Bambi. And it can be very frustrating to try to figure it out. And yeah, maybe a couple of weeks. Yeah, can you imagine doing that every week? No, that's exhausting. I think we've beaten that dead horse.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yes, we have. I'll go next. Um, so I think this is really uh, I guess, overlooked a lot is just really helping people find that mind-muscle connection. Because now I came from like I ran that like my first foyer into exercise was running and marathons and all that, and then I moved into CrossFit. And CrossFit's interesting in that I learned how to um zone out because you know, a lot of the workouts were so hard that you had to mentally go somewhere else, you know, to endure, right? Um and so I was very used to just turning off my brain and disconnecting from what I was doing. Obviously, I wanted to be safe, but at the same time, I didn't really want to be in the pain. Um, and then when I moved to more hypertrophy work and bodybuilding, basically, it's kind of the opposite. You need to be in it, you need to be actually thinking about the and that was hard, that was a very hard transition for me. I wanted to naturally just zone out when I was lifting, and that was not helpful, right? I needed to be like to actively think about the muscle you're using and contracting makes a world of difference. And I just I think that's not talked enough about that you're leaving so much on the table. And then especially if you're someone like me, you came from a world where like, and if you're like a cardio bunny, we'll put that in quotes, you probably do that naturally, right? You're probably scrolling TikTok when you do your runs or whatever, and like so it's really easy to do that, but that's not helpful when we're training for hypertrophy and strength.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

No, I mean I've seen I don't I'm not gonna go there. I've seen I have seen people be on the machines and they're texting and they're scrolling, like literally in the middle of their set, or they're having conversations, they're on the phone. Yeah, you know for sure that you are not pushing hard enough. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

No. This is why I also I'm gonna complain about men again. Like, don't talk to me, even if I'm in the middle of a set, like because when I'm resting, I'm usually I'm second guessing my life choices at that moment. Like, I don't want to do this. Um, I don't have the bandwidth to be like, oh, what's up, bro? Like, no, don't like I'm here trying to just stay in the game and like I take my training seriously. This is not social for me, like so. Yeah, please don't approach women, especially if they're seriously training. They don't want to be social, not at that moment, and it kind of takes away from this idea of like staying, you know, in it and concentrating.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yeah. So yeah, I think tempo form is just very underrated, and I see so many people, men and women alike, and it's pretty much 50-50. It's not like, oh, the men do it more, the women do it more. I see it just pretty straight across the board where there is no intention and they're just throwing the weight around as quickly as possible. And it's like, uh-uh. Um, I mean, I really not not to say that tempo necessarily is going to lead to better gains. I think that has actually been debunked recently, but it's gonna force you to be more intentional.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

And also, if you are able to throw the weight around like that, it's probably not heavy enough.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Like we were saying, I mean, with my training, the first couple of reps feel hard, so I can't swing the weight around.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yes, and that I I agree that I'm usually looking for those first couple to already feel like, oh shit, like, okay, this is gonna be a grind at the end, right? Because part of it is I'm like you too. I don't want to be grinding out 15 reps. That actually exhausts me. Like 15, that's a lot, you know. I'd I have I've always been though much more like I'd rather go heavy and do less than lighter weight and longer. I don't love that burn, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Um you will still feel the burn when you're doing heavier, lower rep, but it's not gonna be the same. It's not the same, no.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Which is why I encourage people to take something safe to failure to feel that difference between like an endurance and a complete failure, a mechanical failure. It feels different, and you should know what that feels like. Um otherwise you're probably not at mechanical failure. Because part of it is you're overriding your brain. Your your brain senses, oh, this is really heavy. Of course, your instinct is going to be like, let's stop, you know. But that's why I like to just experiment and say, hey, take just one, you know, one set till you literally can't and tell me how much farther you go. And like that's the difference between your brain keeping you safe and what you can actually do.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah. And and that is your brain's number one job is is to keep you safe and protect you at all cost. So yeah, I mean, of course, we don't want to get pinned under a leg press or a squat. So yeah, be be safe about it. But most of the time people are capable of far more than they think. And when you do push yourself to that dark place, which I like to call it, yes, you feel so empowered. Yeah. Wow, I'm stronger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

I love hearing like in check-ins, like, oh my god, I added another plate. I never thought I'd be that girl in the gym with like three plates, and I'm like, yes, it's amazing. You just you take that with you outside of the gym, you know, that confidence a hundred percent transfers to other things. I know that my time in CrossFit, although there's a lot I don't love about CrossFit, but the the one thing I really loved was this idea of me pushing my limits all the time, like absolutely started to transfer into my day-to-day life of like, oh, I'm so much more capable of way more. I just I am so comfortable, you know, like I don't like to be comfortable. So like that's kind of their motto, right? Like, suck it up, buttercup, um, get comfortable with the uncomfortable. But that's a great, a great philosophy that like, you know, all of a sudden translates into all these other areas where you're just like, oh, I'm a badass and I could do hard things. So let's be honest, life is uncomfortable. It is very uncomfortable and very unpredictable. Like you just I think that's another like CrossFit motto is like you gotta be ready for anything, right? And And you know, I think that those are great things. I just I don't like the extreme, but um certainly being able to navigate and do that well is um high priority for me.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, I agree. So my next one, and actually the topic of this episode was sparked from a conversation that I was having with my in-person client this morning because she was considering adding a fourth day of lifting to her routine she would do on her own. She sees me two times a week and then she does one lift on her own. And I know that she pushes herself very hard, but she, like most women, does not like to rest in between sets. Go, go, go. And that's how she lives her life. You know, she's a an executive, and so her days are spent just going from one thing to another. And so that translates into her workouts as well. And it's so interesting because, and I think this is because I do push myself so hard. I rest anywhere from two minutes upwards of three minutes plus, depending on the exercise. So if it's a heavy RDL, a heavy leg press, something like that, then yeah, I'm probably resting three, if not more minutes. And when that time is up, I'm like, oh shit, here we go again. I'm dreading the next set. So if you can go in 30 seconds, 60 seconds, you are not pushing yourself hard enough. And I know that there's the I think ingrained conditioning that if you're not sweating, if you're not breathing really heavy, I mean, don't get me wrong, I was doing Bulgarian split squats. You're breathing, you're breathing heavy. I was breathing heavy, but I was doing sets of six to eight, and I was still breathing heavy. I mean, because it's a very intense lower body exercise, right? Probably not going to do the same if I'm um yeah, doing a tricep extension. So that being said, being breathless, having your muscles burning is not the sign of an effective workout. So I would say if you do not need at least 60, if not closer to 90 seconds to two minutes of rest, then you got up your game. Yeah.

unknown 46:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

She was saying to me really quick, she's like, yeah, my only concern is if I add another day on my own, I'm gonna try to rush through it. I'm like, I know you will. So slow your roll, my friend. She's like, I just get bored. I'm like, I don't care. Well, then you're not pushing hard enough. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, you should want that rest. I'm like, scroll your phone, you know, like walk or pace the gym, do something, maybe even have that conversation with you know, the gym goer like that. Not during the set, no days, yeah. In between, I mean, I talked to people in between sets for sure. Sure. Uh speaking of, I was having a conversation with this young kid. He just graduated from college. Oh, such a nice guy. I'm like, you have a great head on your shoulders. Why can't all of the 20-somethings who come through these doors be more like you? But we were talking a couple of weeks ago, and I was doing Bulgarian split squats in the Smith Machine, which game changer, by the way, so much more stable. Yeah. And he was asking me about them, and I don't know how it came up, but I made a comment how he just said, like, they're so hard. And I said, I know. And what I've been doing now with single leg movements is putting 60 to 90 seconds in between legs. Because if your breath is your limiting factor, or from a stabilization perspective, like with Bulgarians, that back leg that's resting on the bench, that hip flexor, the quad, it's still working. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, if you go right into the next set, there's no way you're gonna be able to push as hard. So I gave him that tip and he's like, That's genius. I'm gonna start doing it. And then today I saw him doing Bulgarians in the Smith, and he went right from one leg to the next. I was like, Ryan, did you forget our conversation? No, I probably's like, this is just for my warm-up set. But when I get into my working sets, yes, I'm gonna rest appropriate amount of time. I was like, good point. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

And I think it goes without saying, please don't do burpees and you know, like squat jumps in between sets. Like, if you're doing that, again, same applies here. I just I know people have that idea of like, I just have to feel like I did a lot. Um, and that that means sweating and high heart rates and burning, and like no. And I want to say, so I'm gonna piggyback because I had um a point here to say that recovery is part of your training, and that can be the recovery in between, like the rest in between sets, but it's also the days off. Um and I just want to say, as somebody who has trained four times a week for years, I mean, yeah, years. I've been very like consistent with that, like maybe every once in a while it's three or you know, or I take a week because I'm on vacation, that's fine. But like, you know, my years have been four times a week, too up or too lower. And with all that's going on, you know, with my mom and grandmother, I have had to go down to three times a week. And while I was a little nervous, like, you know, that's a day, that's a lot of volume over the course of a long period of time. Um, I have not seen any regression. I've actually, it's been very interesting, felt like there are more days I can push harder because I have more rest in between. Um, and I'm doing three full days, so I'm doing legs three times a week. It's never back to back because I can't do back to back and my life generally doesn't allow it anyway. But um, and I'm not doing a whole hour of legs either. It's like two quad, you know, exercises on day one, one, you know, two glutes on the next, and then a quad glute. Okay, so it's spread out, but at the same time, like it has been very interesting that I have way more in the tank, even though stress is high, obviously, and I got a lot going on, but because I'm not in the gym as often, there's a sense of urgency for me, and I just have more reserve because I am not expending myself for different times. Um, yeah, and I've seen lifts go up. I think overall, am I gaining muscle? No, not right now. Life is not set up for 48-year-olds stressed out under I had to be gaining muscle, but I am absolutely retaining strength, if not growing a bit of strength, and um I think the recovery has just been important. Um, and that I gave that to myself by just taking one day off uh of the calendar.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

No, I I like you're giving yourself that permission. I've always been a four-day per week lifter as well, the two upper, two lower, which works really well for me. I mean, I love being in the gym, I'm a meathead at heart. Yeah, but what I like about the program that I'm doing is he has options for two, three, and four days. So when I was out of town in Chicago in the beginning of May, I knew that I wasn't gonna be able to get all four lifts in. So I did an upper, a lower, and a full body. That's how I like to program three days per week. I just don't enjoy full body lifts. So to think of having to do those three days per week, I'm like, oh my gosh. And that's why I was telling my client today because like she's really getting strong and pushing herself hard. And she's the one who is a very hard-charging executive, so she's got a lot of additional stress in her life. And you know, I'm like, yeah, if you're gonna add, I mean, if you're doing three full body workouts a week, that can be a lot of intensity, you know, for like those bigger, heavier lifts.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

So it definitely can be. I I did try upper, lower full, um, and I ended up trying the full body, and I actually was I enjoyed that, and it just again, I think I I don't, I just that extra time away from the gym gave me back what I was kind of missing because there was I was still holding on to four times a week for a while, and then I realized I am half-assing this because I don't have it in me. I'm so tired, I'm so like mentally depleted with everything that this is becoming just like going through the motions. And so I think for me personally, like taking that one day off made the other days much more like I can't waste this, right? Like intentional.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Intentional, but I also think probably affected because you were recovering more.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

So and your mind was your mind was able to be more yes, mentally I could be in it.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

So yeah. So, anyways, recovery is part of the training. Yes, you need to train hard. That stimulus has to be there, like first and foremost. Like without the stimulus, you're not going anywhere, right? But equally you have to give yourself time to relax, rest, recover, and that's so hard for I know us type A's, but you're you're gonna spin your wheels if you're never recovering.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

And that's frustrating. No one wants that. No, I've spent my wheels for years.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

We all have, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:56

I mean, I'm I'm 42. I'm just now seeing the shoulder gains.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Yes, I know. I love your shoulder. I'm always like I see them caps, I love them.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

I mean, this took so damn long, so long. I've wanted shoulders for since I was 15. Yeah, you know, so finally got them. Yep. But that's why listen to us because we had to learn the hard way.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yes, yes, we're gonna collapse that time for you if you would like to accept the the advice.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

I think we nailed it. I think we did.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Yeah, I would say the only one maybe is just with all this might be implied, but like track your workouts. I mean, let's just end with that. Like, get a notebook, get an app. I don't care. Just you you need to remind yourself, otherwise, I promise you, you're doing the same weight and the same amount. Nobody's remembering. Did I do 25 or did I do 30? And did I do 12 or did I take that off of your brain and just freaking write it down and you'll be amazed at how complacent you are. I don't mean to be rude, but it's really you don't remember as well as you think you do.

unknown 54:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

And you are leaving gains on the table.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Yes. And it's such a like for me, I'm okay with like me against me, right? So when I see my app and it's like, okay, last week I did 90 pounds, 12 reps, I'm going for 13. You know, and it just gives me that one little um incentive, and it's and then I get my dopamine hit, like I did it, or I didn't, and I'm like, ooh, I really need to be recovering, right? But I have that standard, and then like, okay, let's try to push this week just even just that one rep. And because I wouldn't remember. How do I remember on all the things I do? I wouldn't. Yeah, 100%. All right. Well, that was a fun one. It was. I love training. I do too.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

We both do. I'm such a little gym rat.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Yes. I'm not wearing it today, but I have a shirt that says meathead hippie, and I just love it so much because I feel like that encapsulates who I am. Like I am a meathead, but I'm also like, I got a little bit of woo-woo in me. Same. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

I know. So yeah. Good stuff. Well, happy. Well, I can't say happy fourth of July because this is coming out on Monday. Hopefully had a very fun 4th of July, and now we're getting into the downhill slide of summer, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

Yes, I know. But happy fast. Ugh. You enjoy your travel. I hope that is fun to just get away. Um, we have a local little parade that's literally on our street right here. All we have to do is walk outside, so that'll be fun. Yeah. And yeah, just enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

I technically could go to the parade tomorrow morning because it's a five-minute walk from my place. What I am gonna do, I decided I have to do cardio in the morning, so I'm gonna walk to the gym, do my cardio rather than driving because I will not be getting back to my place if I try to because the parade starts at nine. But I mean, these fools they already have their chairs. Oh, yeah. The chairs have been out since yesterday. Yeah, and then the police are gonna have the street shut down in the morning, so it's just way easier for me to walk. And then I'll get extra steps because I'll be in the car for so long. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Yeah, we're stuck here from 6 a.m. to 1 p.m. We cannot leave. I mean, I guess we can leave before that, but you know, we're trapped. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Okay. Well, enjoy. All right, talk until next week. Bye. Bye.