Episode 26: The Truth About So-Called Toxic Foods

The wellness world loves a villain, especially on social media, where sensationalism gets all the attention and sells. And over the years, seed oils, artificial sweeteners, dairy, and gluten have all had their turn in the hot seat. But how much of the fear around these foods is actually backed by science? And how much of it is just noise?

In this episode, we break down each of these so-called problem foods, where the real nuance lives, and why context and quantity matter so much more than most people realize. We also get real about something that doesn't get talked about enough: how fear and hyperfixation around food can create unnecessary stress in the body, and why that stress itself can drive symptoms that have nothing to do with what you're actually eating. At the end of the day, blanket rules only get you so far. Learning to listen to your own body and adjust accordingly will always reign supreme.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Well, how are you doing, my friend? I am doing great. How are you? I'm doing really well. Life is improving. Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. Except I have cramps today.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Well, we were talking about that offline. Why don't you tell the people?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Oh, so you know, one fun thing about going on HRT is your period might come back. It's not a full-on period, but um, I certainly have the cramps.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

For anyone who may be listening this week and missed last week's episode, I think you gotta give the backstory, the major announcement.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yes, major announcement. Period. I was as of June 9th. It had been a year since I had a period, so technically I was post-menopause. Very exciting. And then um about a month ago, I started HRT because I have hot flashes and sleep. Those are my two main huge issues. So immediately went on HRT, and I will report hot flashes are gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

And were you having the hot flashes throughout the day or at night?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Mostly at night, but certainly they could happen at any time. Um, and at by at night I mean like while I was still awake, because I know some women actually like will have hot flashes in the middle of the night or wake up to hot flash. That was never me. It was more like just in the evening time. Um, but honestly, they could happen during the day. Um, and they weren't awful, but they're certainly irritating and annoying. Um, I was starting to see a little disruptive. Yeah, it's disruptive. That's a much better word. Um, I was starting to notice um after a shower, I would get a hot flash. And you know how upsetting like I just got clean, I don't want to be sweaty now. Um, which is weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

This is what people who live in the south feel like. Oh god, that's just their life. I could never neither can I. Uh, did you know I almost moved to North Carolina about seven years ago? Why? I well, because I was dating a guy, okay, and he was from the East Coast, he moved out to California for a job, had been here for about 10 years, and just never really liked it. And how could you not like it out here? Who the fuck knows? Because he was just one of those people. And he liked it for the well, exactly. He liked it for the most part, but I don't think he wanted to live here permanently. And he was also very frugal, so he didn't want to pay the cost of living, all of that. And so he decided that we were gonna move to North Carolina. Okay, and I was like, you know, I and I've said this many times before, I love the East Coast, I like the south, I feel like I am an East Coaster at heart, and one of these days I would love to be bicoastal, where I have a place back there, also one here, and I can just go back and forth depending on the vibe that I'm wanting to experience, the time of year, all of that. And so I was open to it. So we went to visit Charlotte because that's where we had settled on. I think that was the first issue, I would have preferred the Rally Durham area because it's a little bit more for a lot. I mean, it definitely has a city vibe, but it feels more rural. So we visited Charlotte the first week of June, which was actually very smart. It wasn't necessarily intentional, but I'm glad that we went when we did because I got off that plane and I immediately know. It's so thick, the air, right? It was so hot, it was so humid, and we weren't even in the it wasn't even technically summer yet. No, yeah, so I said, nope, I'm sorry, not doing this. And God was definitely on my side because we broke up, I think, a year later. So could you imagine how I mean I moved, picked up my entire life, left my business, my family, my friends, and then ended up just to sweat. Just to sweat, and then the relationship wouldn't have worked out anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

So oh my god, yeah. Speaking of, I'll be on the East Coast next week. So I'll be sweating.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

That's right. She will be. But I spent a lot of time in Florida the past five years or so when I was working for that other coaching company, and all of our seminars or company retreats were in Florida. Same thing, you know, you get off the plane and you're I was like, why did I bother getting a blowout?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Because Oh yeah. That won't last out there. So goodness.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

But where I was going with that is I feel like when you live out there, yeah, you're just kind of perpetually depending on the time of year, because it can also snow during the winter. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

But you know, I can't imagine having hot flashes and living on the east coast. I'm barely surviving over here. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

And luckily, that is not well, again, technically, I'm apparently not even in perimenopause, even though my hormones are in the tank. Uh, so I have not experienced any hot flashes, but for me, it is it's the sleep issues as well. That's kind of my main symptom. But again, I don't even know if it's perimenopause. I think it's more my high cortisol issue that I am dealing with.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah. So that's also improved too. It's not perfect, but sleep is better. So I'm this is yeah, week four of HRT. So yeah, I wouldn't say like these dramatic changes, but I realized the other day, I was like, oh my god, I don't have any more hot flashes. So that's how like I've also life has been hectic. But um, yeah, so those are gone and uh sleep is improving. It's just uh the last couple days I've been like, do I have yes, I s I have like um it's just breakthrough bleeding, really. Um, it's not a a full period, and I'm just feeling kind of crampy, so that's not fun. But honestly, I would take this for no hot flashes and better sleep. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

So speaking of HRT, my shipment just arrived, so I have not started it yet. It's in the refrigerator.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

And I'm doing the trifecta testosterone. All three. All three testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and I am doing injectable testosterone and estradiol because and then the troche for the progesterone, which you put under your tongue. Because one thing that we know about me based on blood work and that review that I had a couple of weeks ago is I am a poor absorber of nutrients. So I when I was on HRT last year, I only went on it for about six months. The progesterone and estrogen, because I had gone to see my OB and see she suggested it just for more preventative reasons than anything. And I didn't feel like it did anything. So I'm like, why am I paying for this? Why am I putting something in my body that isn't really benefiting me? Uh, I was still on, I've been on and off testosterone for years, and I never really felt like it made a difference either way. I haven't been on it for probably six months, and I haven't noticed, oh, I'm in my training is superb right now. I think it's because I'm eating enough. But yeah, I didn't notice a difference in energy, recovery training, anything like that. But just because my levels are low, I think it's helpful to get them where they need to be. And then I'm gonna be interested to see because I have to do follow-up lab work in three months, they'll reassess or they will assess is this the right dosage? Um, but yeah, we'll see if the injectable actually increases my absorption. So fingers crossed, and hopefully it helps me sleep. We shall see. Yeah, and then maybe just prevent any symptoms from happening.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah. I mean, the earlier the better you can kind of get in there because there's no reason to suffer really. I think that's what's so wonderful now is we have so much better research and we're hearing more about it and that it's safe, and yeah, there's just no reason to to suffer. I'm only on estrogen and progesterone. Um, we didn't see any reason for me to be on testosterone as well. So we shall see. I have a follow-up in another month. Um but other than feeling better and having a s I don't know, a mini mini period. Great. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yes, we'll we'll keep each other updated, we'll keep the listeners updated. Yes. So you're you're gonna start soon, yours. Yeah, I'm gonna start soon. I just need to I think I'm gonna contact them on Monday and ask, do I take it all at once? Like on the same day. I think with the testosterone, I take it twice per week. The other oh no, excuse me, the troche is once a day. That's at night. Um, so I guess it doesn't really matter at this point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

I mean, I I'm on a patch, an estrogen patch, and then a progesterone pill.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

So yeah, so I'll take the estradiol and the testosterone on one day, and then the second dose of the testosterone on a second, and then the progesterone every night.

unknown 9:06

Gosh.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yep. That's that's really nice. I am curious because I know, and this actually did not happen to me, but it can happen to many women. I'm gonna be interested to see if I do experience it uh this time around. You noticed the cramping and then you had this breakthrough bleeding. Did you feel watery, puffy? Because that's a very common side effect when you first start HRT. So I'm like, oh, is that gonna happen to me this time?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, it did. Uh this week I have just been feeling like, and it's hard because it's been really hot. And sometimes when it's hot, I feel bloated. Um, and I haven't been eating amazingly because life's just been kind of crazy. Uh so I was just like, oh man, I mean, am I just eating a lot of salt and like it's just really hot? Um, but yeah, I definitely have been feeling like bloaty and yeah, that watery feeling. Like I was just like looking at myself in the mirror and like, damn, what happened? Like and then yeah, had some breakthrough bleeding and was like, got it, this is a period, got it. And that tracks for sure. Yes. So I'm like, yay, that means in like a couple days I'm gonna feel amazing.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yeah, but you're right, the heat will definitely make you feel more bloated, swollen, because there's more blood going to your muscles. So it does make sense. And for me, it's interesting because when I did the consult with that coach, she increased my calories. So she actually lowered my fat by about five grams and then bumped up my carbs. So I'm definitely eating more calories. It's interesting, just by bumping carbs up by like 20 grams, I am feeling better. Yeah, more energy training's going even better than it was. So that's interesting. But I have for sure noticed no bloating, but I can tell in my legs they're just they're fuller. Fuller, yeah. Now it's gonna be interesting. Okay, when I go on HRT, am I gonna feel even more so? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

But carbs are amazing. It's funny. I have two clients that I just um they've been dieting and we're trying to figure out are they done or not. And I'm like, oh, let's just do a diet break and reassess. Like, let's not make any decisions quite yet. And I'm like, I just I'm gonna give you more carbs and that's it. That's all you're getting. Like, but you know, don't be sloppy, but you should feel amazing because all of a sudden you get this huge bump in energy coming in, and it doesn't require a ton of calories. You actually get like fuel, you know. It's rocket fuel.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Gorgeous carbs are great, yes, ma'am. Although I do love my fats too. It's interesting. I think you and I were talking about this on one episode. I know everyone thinks that dieting sucks and it's so hard. Try eating, try eating at the top end of maintenance or even in a small surplus. It's a part-time job. Don't get me wrong, I can pack away some food. And if people, if women saw the amount of food I eat because, and this is gonna be something that we get into in this episode, my nutrition quality in terms of the type of food that I eat is very high. So I'm eating incredibly high volume foods, which means that it's a lot, yeah. Yeah, uh, and and it's interesting because I'm a small person, but I can pack away a lot and like not feel that like, oh, I'm so full. Like I've got to keep eating this. Uh and I think I'm at around 20,100 calories about right now, which is that's a good amount of food. Yeah, and especially when it's high volume, yeah, those meals are good. It's I'm I'm not complaining, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

But yes, feeling good. Food is fuel, yes, and people just don't understand when you're eating yes, high quality. You can eat a lot. I regularly have clients tell me, Andre, I just I feel like I'm eating a lot of food. And I'm like, and yet you're not eating in a surplus. Like, you know, when we start to just increase the quality of their diet, they feel like, oh, this is too much. And I'm like, actually, you're eating less calories than before, but way more volume. I mean, it's a it's a great place to be, but they get very afraid, like, this is too much. I'm like, is it? It's just a lot of plants.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Exactly. You know what's interesting is I've been thinking about this. I am by no means going into a deficit anytime soon unless I end up in surplus territory a couple of months. I mean, even if it's a couple months from now, I'm not gonna diet, I'm just gonna ride it out because I could even I could stand to gain weight right now and I especially want to keep gaining muscle. But I was thinking to myself, if at some point I did decide to go into a deficit because my fats are so high, it really would not be that difficult because that's where I would take the majority of my calories from. And so it would be not pouring the olive oil on all of my veggies for every single meal. I'm not gonna notice that.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Nope. Yep. I can easily take the nuts and like my creamer out because I do use heavy cream, not a lot, but I mean, and I could be in a 200-calorie deficit right there. Yeah, and I would never notice no walnuts in my oatmeal and no creamer in my coffee. That's 150 calories.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Even if I reduced my nut butter from one tablespoon at each meal to a half of that, I'm still getting the taste, but perhaps the calories. So yeah, that's the thing. That's really too bad. I had an Instagram post that I made a couple of months ago. I need to do it again because it's people need women need to get this through their head. And yeah, I get comments like, wow, you're really eating that much. And it's like, oh, isn't it so interesting that I'm eating this much, but I'm staying lean, yet you feel like you're hardly eating anything, and you don't realize that you're actually eating more calories than me. And it's because all of these snacks and the high-fat foods that are not satiating, that are low volume, you know, they really do pack a punch. And they're so tricky. So tricky.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Like you just people and they'll forget they ate them, these little snacky snacks, and then I'm like, how's it like 200 calories? And you if you do that several times a day, I I'm not surprised that you're slowly gaining weight, like and you don't feel full, you don't feel satiated.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah. So it's interesting because I was house sitting last night for a client just overnight, and I brought all my food with me to make dinner, and she's got this stove that I could not figure out. I I turned it on, and I guess it's a I she called it something because I saw her this morning, and I actually have to do a two-week job for her starting next week. And I said, Can you show me how to use the stove? Because I couldn't make dinner last night, and and my dinner is very high volume. So I make this egg roll in a bowl, which is ground turkey with tons of cabbage, and that's what I was trying to make, and I couldn't. So uh, but yeah, she's got this like magnetic stove where you put the pan on the stove and it basically like adheres to it, but the stove itself doesn't heat up, but it still cooks. Okay. So I have the burner on, but it all it's not a gas burner, so it's like it looks electric. So I said, Well, it shows that it's on. Why is it not heating up? But I didn't give it enough time to see if it would actually allow the food to cook. So I said, screw this anyway. So I'm like, Well, I need to eat something. So I'm like rummaging through her crater, and I find those little chicken bites from Costco. Do you know those ones? They've got chicken, they've got steak, and but no veggies. So I go and I eat a handful of uh maybe two handfuls of nuts, mixed nuts, and probably for the same amount of calories, if not more, because I didn't track them, than had I had my egg roll in a bowl, but I did not feel full whatsoever. Oh, yeah. So it's easy where I'm going with this, is it's easy to say I don't feel full and satiated. I didn't really eat that much. Well, no, actually, you ate more than you normally do.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

You didn't eat much volume. You ate a lot of calories, yeah. Which yeah, I just think the average person has no clue. They're just they're trying to gauge off of the actual volume of the food. More volume means more calories, less volume means little, and it's usually the opposite. So anyway.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And rant.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

But I think a good segue. So we wanted to chat about basically foods that unnecessarily get demonized. And I think unf it's like an unfortunate thing because it really kind of scares people off from some food that you know does not have to be on the on the no list. Um, I I know you'll agree. I think you and I really live in nuance and in the gray, and a lot of this is gonna come down to there's not necessarily a black or white answer on it. Some of it is, but um, and I think we live in a world where influencers want to take like a nugget of truth and just like completely blow it out of proportion to a point where like it's just not necessary because it's easy to sell fear. Um, so yeah, I was gonna say sensationalism sells. Yes, it does. I'm like social media.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

I love that alliteration.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yes. So okay, so we'll talk. I think we have five foods that we feel like don't need to be feared. There's some truths we can talk about those, you know, but you know, I think it's more about understanding the nuance and that likely you are being sold a sensational story that yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Let's start with artificial sweeteners because that is my first love. And ironically, before you even sent me the idea for this podcast, I was on Instagram this morning. Do you follow Dr. Daniel Eamon? Sounds familiar, maybe. He's a psychiatrist, he's an older guy. I really like him. He's this sweet man, I think he's very intelligent. He can definitely swing on the side of, I don't want to say being a fear-mongerer, but he will say, I do not drink anything. Any drinks with aspartame, I do not consume aspartame, and so I saw this uh post today, and for whatever reason, my algorithm is doing something funky now, or we know that the timeline is no longer chronological, right? But I'm seeing posts from five days ago, yeah. From two weeks ago, and it says the who, which is I can't remember the what it stands for. World Health Organization. Uh coming out saying that aspartame and NutraSweet are potentially carcinogenic. And I was like, oh, wonderful. Here we go. Good thing I switched to Coke Zero because it's sucralose. But also, I think we know that you would have to consume such an extreme amount. It's like what, 300 cans of diet soda a day for it to actually be carcinogenic or you know, deadly. But yeah, people are gonna see that and they'll freak out. Now, he shared a story from 30 something years ago when he was first in practice that one of his patients had rheumatoid arthritis, and she said, I cut out artificial sweeteners. I think it was aspartame at the time, or I stopped drinking diet coke, I don't remember what exactly it was. And oh, what do you know? My pain went away. And he said, Oh, that's interesting because I have rheumatoid arthritis as well, or you know, joint pain, inflammation. So he gave it a shock. He's like, at that point, I was mainlining Diet Coke, and my pain went away as well. So is it placebo? Is it anecdote, you know, whatever? Um, yeah, I have autoimmune issues and I've never noticed, and I did, I cut out Diet Coke for probably six years when it was first starting to come out that this is cancerous, it's gonna kill you. And at that point, I was so deep down the rabbit hole that I was willing to do anything. Yeah. So I cut it out, and then eventually I'm like, I I think once my health started to improve and I noticed that I could include these foods that I had avoided for a long time with no repercussions, then that gave me the confidence to bring back these uh artificial sweeteners, and I've been fine.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah. I I think this is where nuance is so key because the no I think one, the reality is that artificial sweeteners have extensively been studied. We we need to just start with the reality. They are they're not some mysterious thing that we don't know about. We've been studying them. We have a lot of research and we know that there is an established like safe intake. Um I did a whole podcast on my um my podcast uh on this. I I think it's like you could have 17 diet cokes a day for the rest of your life. Like that's the limit. And like if you're you know, if you're drinking 17 diet sodas a day, that's a different problem. It's not the aspartame. It's like why are you drinking that many, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Like put it past me, I could do it.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

I mean, challenge accepted, right? But that's the thing though, like we could certainly take the the nugget of truth of that, like there is a limit where it can increase your risk. Like, and you have to hear that language at that limit, you have an increased risk. It's not even a like, oh well, if you have 18 cans a day, boom, you're gonna get cancer. It's just it just means that your risk increases and it's pretty mild. But, anyways, again, going back to like that threshold is really high. So I really don't think that the one diet coke that I have a day, I don't even have it every day, but most days, is doing jack shit. And quite honestly, like it's a pleasure I have. I look forward to it, I always have it with my dinner. Um, and I think I get more out of like the ritual of like, ooh, like it's dinner time and I get this little treat than this very small. Obviously, I'm well within the limit of like what we have researched to see to say. Um it's fine, right? And like I think we all also need to look at all the other risky behavior we're constantly engaging in to say, why are we fixating on a very well-researched thing and then blowing it out of proportion and having people be, you know, just deathly afraid of aspartame or you know, sucralose or whatever, whatever artificial sweetener that they're using when the reality is we know it's also very helpful for people to lose weight on. Um, I I remember reading some research that was like, so there's a correlation between weight and people who drink diet sodas, and the correlation is that like the more you weigh, the more likely you are to drink these. And so then people are trying to say, see, it makes you gain weight. And it's like, wait, actually, it's because they're just actively dieting. That that's the population of people who diet more, right? And so then they're gonna drink a diet soda, right? So, you know, again, correlation doesn't equal causation. So, anyway, I do though think there are populations like yourself who have an autoimmune disease or someone with rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune, that they may be more sensitive to something like an artificial sweetener. And so, yeah, you should absolutely try it. I think some people have gut issues too, microbiome. They're still doing testing in that area, and um, it's possible that it is disruptive to the gut, but that's not a general blanket to say everybody's gonna have that same experience. You just might be a lucky person who's super sensitive, you know, to something like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Well, and also you have to look at as you were saying, uh, in the context of your overall lifestyle. I I do believe I will never know with certainty that one of the reasons I developed an autoimmune disease, first and foremost, genetics. I have the predisposition. So we know genetics loads the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger. I was a C-section baby, so that means that I oh you were too. I was I didn't know that. I was interesting. Um not breastfed. Oh, okay. I think my mom breastfed for a very short period of time, but then she went back to work six weeks after I was born. So then I was switched to formula, and we're not gonna get into that conversation. That opens up a can of worms that I really don't have um, you know, any say in. But yeah, so the cards were stacked against me. Oh, also, you know, I was a pretty healthy kid, but who didn't get the occasional ear infection, sinus infection, and was given the pink bubble gum medicine that umboxicillin was so tasty. Yeah, so that's gonna wipe out your good bacteria. And then I went to college and I was stressed out, which was self-inflicted, not sleeping enough, drinking like a fish, uh, working out too much, and my nutrient quality when it came to my diet was absolute shit because I was in fear of certain foods. And the only reason I could stick to the diet that I was on, which at that point wasn't really a diet necessarily, but you know, steamed vegetables and egg beaters basically for every meal, was because I was mainlining artificial sweeteners. Yeah. Two packs of sugar-free gum a day, Splenda in and on everything, sugar-free syrup. When I was in the sorority, she would make these pans of sugar-free jello, and I was the one eating the majority of it. So I do feel like that impacted my gut health. But again, in addition to everything, all the other insults that I was putting my body through. So it's just yeah, the devil is in the dose.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yes. I want to also just bring this up. I'm I'm sure you this has probably come across your feed. Um, that biohacker Brian Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Mm-hmm.

unknown 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah, who's basically trying to biohack himself to live. I don't know if he's trying to live forever, but he's certainly trying to like increase his lifespan by literally doing every single thing he can. And like, oh god, he's like on hundreds of like supplements a day. He never goes outside or he's never in like direct sunlight. I don't know, he just does all the things, right? And like he just got diagnosed with an autoimmune. And I'm I'm really loving a lot of the discussion that it's kind of bringing up in terms of like he's obviously taking things to an extreme, but like what like what quality of life does this man have trying to optimize every little you know tiny thing about his health. I think we're missing the forest for the trees here with this kind of like biohacking. Like, I don't want to live to 120 if it means that like I have all these restrictions on myself, and then I think it's just a beautiful life lesson. Like, and then he ends up with an autoimmune, right? Like, you're never going to have 0% risk of anything, right? That's not to say you just like throw your hands in the air and you're like, it doesn't matter, but it it just means you know, there's room to live in the gray and to understand like quality of life and health. Like that meets somewhere in the middle, not somewhere in an extreme fringe. Because look at this guy, he's now you know having to deal with I think it's gastritis, like something with his yeah, it's an automatic disease where it's yeah, attacking his gastric system or stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Uh so interesting because a couple points here. One, I do think that fear can drive disease. I think that 100% that is going to surge cortisol through your body. We know that elevated cortisol is not good for you for your immune system. It's definitely going to downregulate that. So even though I don't think he verbally or outwardly expresses this, I'm sure he does live in fear. And everything is so regimented and meticulous and calculated that that in itself is sending a signal to the body that he's not safe. Well, you know, I shared the story a while back when I said that I was on that very um regimented autoimmune paleo protocol. And I was so hyper-vigilant, having to read every single label, worried about, you know, if anything, I couldn't even eat ground pepper. So going out to a restaurant and oh, is there pepper on it? Oh no, like send it back. I mean, like living that way, it's just that is going to send the signal of unsafety to your body. It's gonna elevate your cortisol. And that is just a breeding ground for disease. So it's no wonder. Uh, the other thing, and I don't know if you've been seeing this stance, but I do follow quite a few woo-woo people, shall we say, you know, like energetic healers and whatnot. But we've also talked on the podcast that the body keeps the score, the mind-body connection. And he has admittedly, like there was a documentary on him, and he talked about this in it. He has, I guess, what you would call the father wound. So some trauma from his childhood that did not feel seen or safe with his father. And so I think there's a lot of repressed emotions that he is not dealing with, not processing. And that too is gonna have an impact. I mean, hence what I was talking about uh with my back pain and how once I started to do that kind of emotional release work, a lot of it improved. Yeah. And it's interesting if you go to the comments in his post where he admits that he has this disease, the majority of them are like, Yeah, it's because you were past trauma that you haven't dealt with. So I think it's a combination of that and then just the fear and the neuroticism.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Sure, there's a lot of control happening in there. I mean, I I saw I don't even remember who it was. Somebody did a post on it, and one of the slides was like when I was trying to do everything right was when I felt the worst. And I was like, oh my god, that's exactly my experience. Is that as I kind of came into the wellness space and started learning about health and all that, like you just before you realize and know how to really like vet information and um authority figures, you know, it's really I understand why people get caught up in some of these, you know, um misinformations, right? I mean, it's very convincing and compelling, and like fear, you're just like, oh my god, and like that's yes, I was trying to do all these things in an extreme way, and I'm like, I feel like shit. I and I don't look good, and you know, and it was like I remember telling someone, and this was years ago, so it was before I really was kind of like aware, I was like, you know, the the as soon as I let go of all the rules, and it and that and I don't mean that in a like I was like whatever, I just let go of the rigidity and was just like, okay, I'm just gonna eat enough fiber and protein, I'm gonna learn like my my calories. Like when I simplified to just that, it was just like, oh, I feel so much better. And like, yeah, sometimes I have a donut and sometimes I have burgers and fries, like, and I don't worry about it, and I feel better than when I was like, oh no, I don't eat that. I mean, I like kept my family from having Italian food for years because I was like, oh, I can't have pasta, I can't have gluten, you know, and like I'm like, I'm so sorry, it's so delicious, and this is not a go eat that all the time. It's just you don't need to fear it. Like I felt like shit when I was trying to do everything perfectly, and when I kind of just stepped away, I was like, all of a sudden, all these mysterious little illnesses went away. Yeah, because your body got out of flare fight.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yes. Well, and I also went to therapy. Yeah, exactly. So I went on a tangent when I was talking about Brian Johnson, and what I was meaning to say when I brought up the fact that I was on that autoimmune paleo diet. Oh, you know what happened? I had the worst flare my psoriasis that I had had since college while I was on it, which just goes to show it's not necessarily the food. It's the terrain, what's going on? So my gut probably was a mess. I'm sure I was stressed out, and who really knows what the you know what triggered it, but my my stress bucket had overflowed.

unknown 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah. Um, so interesting. Yeah. And what's going on up here, you know, like I I see that actually like with my mom. Like, she is so like when she tells herself something, she is all in, but it it can work against her too. Like, if she hears something that's like, oh my gosh, you know, that can scare her away, and then I can see how it impacts her, you know. And I I think we're all like that, you know. Like the placebo effect is real. Now, does it wear off over time? Yes, but I mean, your mind is so powerful, so yeah, being in this state of like fear absolutely impacts your nervous system, which has an impact on everything else. So, like, yeah, I think I was coming from health from a fear lens. So, of course, my body was not super receptive to healing and health. And again, I think paired with therapy is why I really saw a change. I don't think it was all just letting go of all that. I think I also dealt with a lot of long-standing trauma that was just sitting in my body, you know, wreaking havoc.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

So yeah. Well, I know we're talking about food, but I think it would be, you know, we we also need to bring up the fear around data. And you and I both did the blood sugar. Oh, yes, I was deep in that hole. So deep. I mean, I I was so deep in it. I had Did you ever have a CGM? I did not use a CGM. I didn't really trust them. I feel like they're not a hundred percent accurate. And so I was doing the finger prick and I was testing neurotically after every meal. So fasted blood glucose two hours, like one hour after, two hours after, three hours after. And then if it was higher than I wanted it to be, I'm like, oh, that must be wrong. Let me do it again. So literally had calluses on all of my fingers because I was testing so much, and that in itself can increase cortisol, which increases blood sugar. So I think just the rumination, the thought about it, like leading up, I was like, okay, I've got a test in 20 minutes, so I better go out on a walk and like it lower because if I saw that number higher, I would go down a rabbit hole and freak out.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Oh my god, yeah. So I did both. I had a CGM and I was doing finger pricks as I wanted to like can compare. And I found the finger prick to be way too volatile. It it just and uh hardly ever did they match, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So I don't even think that the uh the prick is accurate necessarily. So that's the blood sugar, but also it can go as far as the fitness track. I mean, I have a pedometer because I want to know what my steps are. That's the only tracker I use. I don't use an aura ring, I don't use an Apple Watch, so I'm not looking at my HRV and my cycle and my sleep score, all that shit. I think it just will, it can really mess with the wrong person's buttons. Some people can use it, just an awareness tool. Like, oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Right. But other people I've been yeah, I've been using an aura ring for like five years, but I will tell you, I don't really care so much about my my HRV because I don't know that it's super accurate. It's not that I don't care about my HRV, it's I just care about my steps, and I do like seeing my sleep in terms of like how much sleep I'm getting, especially now since um I'm dealing with hormones and all that good stuff. But like I actually don't really care about all the other data. Um, but I can see like there are times I wake up and I'm like, man, I feel great. And then I look at my little data and it's like, you should take it easy today. I'm like, no, I feel good. And I've had to come to a place where I'm like, no, I I know what I feel, you know, and like it's because sometimes it's like, oh, your temperature is elevated. Well, yeah, it might have just been hot, or I had a hot flash, or you know, like I'm about to get my period when I was still cycling, you know, and I'm like, that's actually not because I'm sick or on the verge of something, right? So like sometimes I just override it. And then there's times where I'm like, man, I feel like shit. And then I look and it's like, you are you you slept great, you have a great day, Hetty. And I'm like, no, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah, and I've never tracked my sleep in that capacity, but knowing that I am not a good sleeper, I wake up multiple times per night. Fortunately, I feel really good. So my energy is high during the day. I don't drink at like I don't drink caffeine right when I get up. I'm like, oh gosh, you know, gotta drink the coffee so I can get going. No, my caffeine comes at 11 o'clock, but I feel fine. I just I really do it for the taste in the ritual, let's be honest. Um, but yeah, I would be certain that if I did wear an aura ring or track my sleep in any capacity, uh, it would be telling me that I needed to go for walks and do gentle yoga.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah. Well, oh, so my point was the reason I actually use an aura ring is because it's it it's just so small and it's out of the way, and I don't think about and I can have it on 99% of the time. I I really don't love like a whoop or anything on my wrist because it just gets in the way, and then like if I want to dress nice, you know, those things don't really pair well. Like the aura ring just kind of is really seamless. That's why I like it. But I have had it so long, I know now they have like a monthly subscription you have to pay. I don't have to do that. I got grandfathered in, so it's just a one-time fee for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

So no thanks.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Yeah, I just yeah, it's just I think that's too expensive. It's nice. I again I like it because it tracks my steps really nicely because this is always on. Um, and I do like some of the like sleep stuff. Not in terms of telling me whether I slept well or not. I just want to know how long I slept. That's really what I'm trying to like get out of it in like my sleep um uh stages and you know, stuff, how long it took me to fall. Like those things are important to me. Like, am I tossing and turning and whatnot? Like, but it's yeah. I I do like the new Google just came out with um a Fitbit Air, and it's real nice and thin, like um bracelet, and it just does minor sleep steps, activity type thing. Um, and there's no monthly just a one-time like that's fairly okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

I don't trust the wearables when it comes to steps. I mean oh, one of my clients would I'm just like, wow, it's amazing how many steps I can get by blow drying my hair.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

I I had a client, your an in-person client years ago, and she had a daughter who was severely autistic and and very overweight. I mean, I would say she was obese, and so she was trying to get her to lose weight, and she had her wear a Fitbit, and she's like, Oh, she was so smart, she knew how to scan the system by like going like this, you know. If you can't see us where I'm shaking my own.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

It's funny. When I used to teach, there was a group of us. Um at that time, we were all just using our iPhones, you know, and it does track your steps. And at lunchtime, when we'd eat together, we'd all compare, and it just became a competition every day. And so yeah, I just started like shaking my phone to just get because I was so comp like uh competitive. Yeah. Um, but yeah, you can absolutely game the system. I which if I can convince someone to actually just can we go for a 10-minute walk every day or like have a more regular routine where it's like you need to get in a certain amount rather than like just you know looking at your aura ring steps. For me, I feel like that's better for people. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Alright, shall we circle back to the nutrition?

SPEAKER_00 42:28

We should. We like really went on a tangent there, but it's good stuff. It's all kind of related, right? It is, yeah. Okay, um, do you want to do seed oils? Sure. Man, seed oils just really got hammered lately. I just it's it's been a good amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Um that's definitely one that I got caught up in it.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Oh, did you? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Yeah, I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

What convinced you on that one?

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Uh, I don't even know. And maybe just it made sense. I was seeing how canola oil was processed. It was like, ooh, you know, it's bleached and all of that just didn't really sit well with me. So, but again, this is at the time when I was still very in the weeds. Yeah. And I think it did make logical sense. Here, I'm just gonna come right out and say it. Do I and I mentioned this earlier, I pour olive oil on pretty much anything. It is a very good source of healthy fats. It's got uh, you know, I think it has omega-3s, polyphenols, so that is the fat source that I choose to use also with my high cholesterol. I am no longer using coconut oil, which used to be my predominant fat source. So I would not choose willingly to swap olive oil and pour canola oil or safflor safflower grapeseed oil on my veggies. Do I think that it's necessarily like gonna be in? Lamage. I mean, I don't know at this point, but I would still choose willingly to use one that is more nutrient dense, so to speak. But am I gonna go out of my way to avoid canola oil or any of the other ones? No, not necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

I mean, I love olive oil just because I mean that's a monounsaturated fat, right? So we're we're still that's still not a saturated fat. And that's a demonized saturated fat, but I just guarantee you you're probably taking in way more saturated fat than you need to, if especially if you're not paying attention to your diet. And again, it's not bad, but it's just disproportionate in most Americans' diet, is that we're just intaking super high amounts of saturated fat, hardly any monounsaturated and polyunsaturated, right? So that's that's actually kind of the problem. And then, like, I think with seed oils, I I so I did go down the canola oil route way back when um it just wasn't like a seed oil thing. It was just like we were just demonizing canola oil at the time. Um, but I mean, there's like human studies that consistently show that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat absolutely reduces your risk of heart disease, which is the number one killer of both men and women. So, you know, um changing your fries from being fried in canola oil versus, or just say vegetable oil versus beef tallow, you're not improving your risk there. You're worsening it actually. Um but I think the problem ultimately is that we as a collective overconsume ultra-processed foods and they tend to have more seed oils in them because of the manufacturing and the just the production of those processed foods. So it's it's not the seed oil, it's the junk food that is being fried and whatnot in that. Um that's the the correlation there. It's just we're just really overeating processed junk.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

I don't think any oil, whether it's canola or olive or coconut or beef tallow, is going to be good for you if you are heating it at extremely high heat.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Or overconsuming it, period. Like yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

But I think there is gonna be a possibly a more damaging effect from like an inflammation standpoint if you are, you know, like really high. Um there's a word for it, and I can't remember what the name of it is off the top of my head. Uh, but yeah, I think that that could be you know potentially problematic. But yes, to your point, it is the foods that we are eating.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

So not only not only like are they ultra-processed, and I'm not demonizing ultra-processed food, they just tend to be nutrient poor. Um, and then they're high in calorie and they're it's easy to overeat. And so now you're in an issue of just overconsumption, right? I mean, it this is why, like with diabetes, that's a it's a disease of overconsumption, yes, of carbohydrate, but like you're also overeating calories because uh uh someone at a healthy weight and a healthy blood sugar um can consume carbohydrates and still stay healthy. You're just over consuming it, right? Which is why losing weight helps everything. Not to say that like weight loss is the end all be all, but it's uh when the ultimate problem is we overeat.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Yes, so it's essentially you're focusing on the very small rocks, rather than very yeah, the sand. And again, if someone like myself who does struggle with an autoimmune disease, who has propensity to be more inflamed, uh, you know, I have chronic inflammation. Like that's just always going to be my reality. That's what an autoimmune disease is. So I choose to be a little bit more careful and for lack of a better word, like clean with my choices. But for example, a while back I was drinking almond milk, and that's because I am dairy gluten-free. Sure. And that's gonna be our next one. But I found this almond milk, which unfortunately they don't sell anymore because I really did like it. It frothed the best. I'm like, what happened to my natural almond milk that had no additives in it? Can't find it anymore, but I would not drink anything with gower gum, carrageenan, anything like that. And then eventually I got over it. And so now the sprouts band that I buy it has way more ingredients. Oh well, it's a very small part of my diet. Right. And then I am on a hummus kick lately, and it's hard to find hummus that is made with olive oil. It typically has sunflower, canola. So I'm like, oh well, I did find this Ithaca brand, which is by far the best, and it has multiple different flavors, and they do have an olive oil one that's made only with olive oil, but all the other flavors have I think it's sunflower. But again, I'm like, it's in such small quantities. Yes, I'm eating it every day, but if that's the the extent to my consumption, so be it. The dose makes the poison.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

Yes, you can die drinking water. You absolutely can. Yep, that's like the the great example. Like you can overdo it, right? I mean, so this goes even back to artificial sweeteners. The dose makes the poison, like my one diet coke is it's like a drop in the bucket in terms of like what I can handle, right? And we're just getting lost in the weeds, lost in the sauce. I hate that for people. You want to talk dairy?

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah, dairy. Uh, and again, I'm not the best one to talk about this because I am dairy free, somewhat dairy intolerant. I I remember in my 20s I was drinking whey protein like it was going out of style, sure, and I would be so blown. I look like I was six months pregnant. So clearly it was an issue for me. Now, is it an issue for everyone? No.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

I will say, I think a lot of people are lactose intolerant. Um, and they are confusing that intolerance with oh my god, dairy is inflammatory. Because I still have people, you know, in my DMs like, oh my god, is dairy bad for me? And I'm like, well, number one as a whole, no. It's quite nutritious, but um, you might be lactose intolerant, and so some lactate would do some do you and everybody around you some good. Um but yeah, I I would say a lot of people are lactose intolerant and they just need they're just missing that enzyme, right? But there are people who um do have, you know, a more severe reaction. I mean, you could certainly be allergic to it, but you would know that. That's that's a real severe reaction. Um it and I I just think there's just like these myths, like, oh, dairy causes like acne and like it's it's inflammatory and nobody should have it. Um again, I think most people can tolerate it if they have the enzyme, or you could just take lactate, or I mean I see now it's pretty common you can go buy milk with lactate in it or lactose-free.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

You can have cheese, yogurt, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

That's I think people it's such a phenomenal quality or like a quality, yeah, protein source that like I hate when a client doesn't want to include it because I'm like, oh man, I mean it's just that it's another avenue for some protein to come in that doesn't have to be like meat, you know, because people kind of get over meat really easily. So it's unfortunate. And vitamin D and calcium, like those are both, you know, vitamins, minerals that we're missing a lot. So I like to be able to include dairy if possible, but yeah, I think it's just quite a myth that it's inflammatory for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Yeah, I absolutely wish I could include it for sure. It it limits my choices. Cheese is delicious, ice cream is my favorite.

unknown 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

I mean, luckily they have so many alternative options at this point that are fairly comparable, I would say. So that is good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Yep. Um, so I think that's an individual uh which I think a lot of this is like you have a cotton. Yes, exactly. Like, do you have explosive diarrhea after you have it? Okay, well, one, you you're probably lactose intolerant, but also like maybe then that's not a food for you. So, and that's okay for like you to be dairy-free, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

And and again, going back to the dose. So if you are having a or you know, yogurt or cottage cheese in the morning for breakfast and a whey protein shake, post-workout, and cheese at another, if you're having it every single meal and it's causing you some gastric distress, perhaps you cut back. And or the other thing too, with any of these foods that we are talking about, is if you do feel like it's affecting you, then cut it out for 30 days, reintroduce it, and see how you feel. That's the ultimate litmus test.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Gold standard right there, elimination. Just do one thing at a time, though, by the way. And but it gets hard because to find all the dairy is it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

And you know, my grandfather, he was an ear, nose, and throat doctor, and my mom has told the story multiple times, but he would have his patients go on what he called the caveman diet. So essentially, meat, fruit, vegetables, and then see how they feel, bring some stuff back, and that is how he would diagnose them.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Yeah, it's the best way to do it. Like, I have clients or just people ask all the time, Oh, should I take a food sensitivity test? I'm like, no, they're bullshit. Take out whatever you you know are suspecting, yes, two to three, maybe four weeks, and then put it back, and you'll have all the answers right there. You do not need a test that's bogus telling you basically. Save your money. Oh, please, yes. So uh you did hit on a good point. I do think too, uh, whether uh with lactose intolerance, sometimes it's a threshold. Like so I am lactose intolerant, but um, I can tolerate small amounts, but I can tell if I'm really like eating more and more of it, I'm gonna hit a threshold where like I'm gonna have an issue. So I always have lactate on me, especially if I'm gonna have something like ice cream or something really heavy like that. But um, yeah, I I don't actually eat a ton of dairy because I am lactose intolerant, but I can tolerate small amounts of it here and there. And yeah, you you might just be overloading yourself if unknowingly if you don't realize it. But um, and you can also do like my protein powder is a way isolate, so that has most of the lactose removed. I have no issues with that. I put clients on it all the time, and yeah, so there's ways around that if you're intolerant.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Okay, should we touch on the gluten one? Let's do it. You want to end on that one?

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Yeah, so again, I'm gluten-free. Oh I will say, and I have not experienced this yet because I chose to not eat gluten when I went to Europe. But there are plenty of people who I have heard are very sensitive to gluten in the States, even celiacs, they go to Europe and they're able to eat the gluten no problem, which I think is interesting. So, is it the chemicals that we use, the glyphosate and all of that, which causes the issue for some people who may feel like they react to it? Very possibly so. Uh, but I think that if you are not celiac, um, or you don't know for sure that you are, or you know for sure that you are not gluten intolerant, then it shouldn't be an issue. But again, just go back to how you feel when you eat it.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting phenomena of uh Americans traveling, let's say, to Europe and then able to eat bread and pastas and not have a problem. Um, is there something to the difference in the quality? It's possible, right? I mean, there there is that. But I also think oftentimes when we are traveling, we're in a completely different state of mind. We're relaxing, we're going on walks, we're getting fresh air, we're exercising, we're relaxed when we eat, we're sleeping, like um, that all absolutely impacts your digestion, right? So is it the quality of the food, or is it just like everything about your life just completely like you just dumped all the shit that usually kind of impairs you to live in this alternate reality for a couple weeks? And um, or is it both? Maybe. I mean, I just think I think it's very possible that you're just taking yourself out of that really toxic environment, your job, coworkers, even possibly like family or people that just you know, whatever, and then you're putting yourself in a timeout and you're relaxed. And like I think too, just the movement, like people just like all of a sudden go from like 4,000 steps to like 20,000 steps because they're sightseeing and they're just more relaxed that like all of a sudden, yeah, your body can actually handle gluten.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

So I mean, I think that if we are, you know, this is like handmade pasta, not pasta that was manufactured in facility, yeah. You know, it's there's probably a difference there for sure as well.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

So I'm sure it's a a variety. I just think maybe you would actually tolerate that processed pasta better in the a relaxed environment. And because I mean that's like the best thing about traveling to me, is like I always get out of America and I'm like, oh my god, we're such idiots. We're just like so ridiculous about stress. And you go to like Spain or Italy or France, and like everything's like no problem. It's so it's just a slower pace. I have a hard time with it. I have to really like relax into it. It's very hard for me to just not be in this like go, go, go mentality. Um, but like everybody's very relaxed and like, oh, you know, I remember we went to France a couple years ago for the Olympics, and there was a bakery we really loved, and so we'd get croissants every morning. And I was like, hey, like, so what time do you guys open? They're like, I mean, when do we get here? I was like, I'm sorry, what? No, I need my croissant and coffee every day, so I need to know what time you wake up or open, and they're like, I mean, you know. I did not have that experience when I was in Paris.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

Wow, yeah. So it was it was wonderful. Like, okay, like it's just not how we operate, and we could learn a little bit from these people who are much happier than we are. And Spain, Italy, they're taking their siestas midday. Yes. Like, you don't want to go in the summer because they'll like they'll close down for a month. Oh, we close the business, we're just you know, we need a break.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Like I would not I would not mind living abroad for six months to a year and just you know that slower-paced lifestyle. See how I do.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

Yeah, then you come back here and you're like, oh my god, we are insane. Absolutely insane. So how did that happen? You know, it's uh it feels like it's just baked into the DNA of America. I guess so. You know, we're just it's like a hustle culture by nature. Which is un unfortunate. Um I so I'm like 30% Native American. Um, and I don't really lean into that piece of me, but I love Native American culture and how like in sync with nature they are, how grounded they are. I really love this idea of just like being in more communion with your fellow man and nature at the same time, and I just love that they did not seem and still do not seem to care about like acquiring wealth and things, and they seem to have a much better Living off the land. Yeah, you know, I love that. So like that part of me I'm like proud to be Native American. Um, but I so have like I'm sure disappointed my ancestors and like the stressful life that I live.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

Well, if you're not on a reservation, it's kind of hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

It's really hard, yes. I'll try to give myself some grace. In Southern California of all places. I know, right. I mean, like capital of like LA is right here. I I mean I live in LA county, but right. I'll do your best. Incorporate it in ways that you can. My morning walk or evening walk. There's mountains right here. I could walk to them. So you do live in a beautiful town, I will say. It really feels like a little bit of a paradise. Um it's like a post-par town. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

Sierra Madre, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Sierra Madre. It's very quaint. We have no stop lights. Um, no Starbucks is the only chain that made it into the town, and the town is very upset about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

I was gonna say that's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

It really is, because we have plenty of really just quaint little coffee shops. I don't know how Starbucks made their way in here, but they are the only chain restaurant in here. Um yeah, and it just feels very quiet and quaint, and it's just lovely. And then, but like the freeway is a mile away, downtown LA is 15 minutes away. Pasadena. Pasadena's right next door, so it feels like it's there, but I don't have to go there if I don't want to. I could just sit here in my little I do love Pasadena though. It's phenomenal for food. Yeah. You have to come down. We gotta do a like a foodie tour.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

I know. I keep saying that. Do you have a sidecar donuts down there?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yes. Uh I don't think it's where is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

It's around. It's drivable. Because I know they have a gluten-free cake donut. Oh, okay. I miss cake donuts more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

I mean, I don't think I could do it. I would just deal with the the repercussions.

unknown 1:02:14

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

It makes me nervous. Comes so far.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

I'm sure. Now I need to look at where there is a location. We just usually go there's a mile away. There's a little just mom and pop donut place, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Which really are the best ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

They really, really are.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

So I just I always love like the the the pink box. You know that the pink oh, do they still have those? Gosh. When you saw the pink box, you know you were getting something good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Oh, it's a good day. It is a pretty good day. So all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Well, yes, definitely gonna make that trip. And we keep talking about it. So I know we'll do it. All right, friend. All right. Well, have the rest of your weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

You too. Enjoy. I hope it's not too hot up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

And mid to high 80s, which is pushing it for me, but at least it's it's not 100 yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

It's been pretty it's been in the 90s down here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

Oh, no, thank you. We're getting there.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Yeah, I hate it. Alright, well, stay cool. All right. Okay, all right, until next time.