How I course corrected my worst business year - Part 1

76% of your clients vanish in a day. Your team is looking at you through a Zoom screen for reassurance. You can do the maths and you know the runway is short, but you still have to lead. That’s where we start Episode 1 of The Climb, as Cherie tells the raw story of The Digital Picnic’s darkest stretch through COVID and beyond, and why it became the “no good, very bad year” that actually lasted years.

We talk cashflow shocks, founder stress, and what it’s like to carry a pandemic in 30 different ways for a team that’s lonely, burnt out, and stretched thin. Cherie owns the leadership mistakes too: people pleasing, avoiding hard conversations, a feedback culture that turns explosive, and the slow erosion of accountability that quietly poisons company culture.

Then the numbers get real. We unpack delayed financial advice, the e-learning boom, the half-million-dollar course built from a walk-in wardrobe, and the money mindset decisions that stopped that win from becoming true stability. By 2022, Cherie is half a million dollars down, tries to close the business, realises she can’t even afford to shut it, and attempts a sale that falls apart. The turning point is brutal and empowering: nobody is coming to save you.

If you’re a founder, leader, or marketer building a business, this is a clear-eyed look at resilience, financial management, accountability, and the cost of delaying tough decisions.

This episode was proudly sponsored by Mel Browne Money.

Key Takeaways: 

• Founder honesty matters, but so does financial transparency
• People-pleasing leadership can damage business culture
• Poor financial visibility makes bad decisions worse
• Revenue growth does not fix broken operations
• Founder burnout is a business risk, not a personal weakness
• Delaying hard decisions usually makes the outcome worse
• Nobody is coming to save your business
• Values still matter, even in the worst seasons

Hosted by Cherie Clonan [@cherie_thedigitalpicnic] and co-hosted and produced by Steph Clifford [@stephssocials] 

Follow us on Instagram @theclimbpod_

Check out our agency @thedigitalpicnic > we teach digital marketing, and we can manage yours, too. 

Transcript

Cherie 0:00

This episode is brought to you by Mel Brown Money, who makes dealing with your finances simple without the jargon or finance bro energy. Mel is a financial educator, best selling author, and former financial advisor who's helped tens of thousands of people understand their money, invest with confidence, and actually build wealth. And if the word wealth feels icky, think about it this way. She helps you build choice. Through her courses, webinars, masterclasses, speaking, and books, Mel brings both the heart and the smarts to finance. Because the truth is, you're never too young, too old, too broke, or even a little bit broken to get better with money. And that's exactly what Mel helps you do. Welcome to the Climb, a podcast about the messy, brilliant, relentless journey of building something meaningful. As an introvert who believes in adding value, not noise, every 40-minute conversation is built to respect your time, but also actually teach you something useful.

Steph 1:00

Welcome to episode one. This is so exciting. We are starting with TDP's biggest climb. We're ripping the band-aid off and telling you all the behind the scenes of TDP's, I would say worst year, but it probably realistically spanned a few years, right, Sheree, of just some really hard times. Oh yes. Big breath out for today's episode. Yep. So let's call it what it really was: the no good, very bad year of TDP. So, Cherie, today you're gonna take the floor, walk us through what that year slash years looked like for you. I know a little bit of this story, um, but today we're sharing more than you've ever shared. And we are so excited to jump in. So without further ado, Cherie, take it away. Thank you.

Cherie 1:47

Can't I can't believe we're kicking off our first ever podcast with TDP's hardest story. But yeah, Steph, I just thought, let's rip the bayonet off, get this one out of the way. And I thought, let's think of this in a movie kind of analogy. So, with this episode, given that it's the no good, very bad year, it sort of reminded me around this time of Shawshank Redemption. You know, like it's what's required of a person who, uh, in his example was wrongfully imprisoned, you know, but to just climb through that tunnel of shit. I can't think of a single founder who's been around for a decent amount of time in business who hasn't had their tunnel of shit yeah. This was that year. It was an absolute tunnel of shit. So we're taking it back to 2020. Uh TDP wasn't completely negatively impacted by uh COVID initially. We weren't one of the very, you know, obvious hard luck stories where businesses were forced shut and you know things like that. However, we were impacted. So um, I don't want to be boring or predictable, but COVID was sort of, you know, the beginning for us. And I'll never forget sort of waking up on one particular March um day, getting email after email. It's like they all came one minute apart without them having any relationship with each other, but they were all our clients. And with the just click of a finger, basically almost overnight, we lost 76% of our client portfolio due to forced business closure. Now, Steph, you're in here at TDP, you know what it's like to be within the agency setting and you know what the impacts of a mass client loss like that um would look, feel, and sound like. And so, yeah, I just, you know, I'll never forget um the optimism of the team. When I say optimism, I think it's more like just absolute innocence, many never having worn a founder hat before. And it's just that wide-eyed innocence of them staring at you on a virtual screen because we're in lockdown at this point, um, and sort of saying things like, We're gonna be okay, yeah, sure. I'm like, uh, how do I answer this? You know, this woman, I'm I'm definitely designed for honesty. And I remember saying to them, yeah.

Steph 4:09

Because how comforting. I'm just thinking, yeah. Well, it's kind of like in a way, we have to be, don't we? Like, we can't the attitude can't be any different than optimistic. That's it. That's the normalities are real, yeah.

Cherie 4:26

Never back down, never what. It's just that this is gonna be quite the what. Yeah, you know, and so I felt really dishonest looking at them and promising that we were going to be okay when I have enough business acumen to know that we were gonna be out of business within one, maybe two months. And wow, yeah, that's soon. Yep, yep. So if you think about the particular pay run that you're running and you've just lost the bulk of all incoming cash, yeah, I could I the math won't be mathing. Or even worse, it was mathing. That's actually called in, called up. It was mathing. Yeah and the math was saying, you this is not good, you know. But the thing about founders is, and this is where I really feel for team, honestly, I feel for employees where if you work for a founder-led business, it's not in us to tell people when stuff is wrong. We're like, we're like your um Ted Lasso's, your, you know, where we're like, yeah, it's gonna be great. Yeah. Um, and so I remember at this time I felt like the band on the Titanic, where I just remember saying, even to Dave, I'm like, the ship's going down, but I'm gonna pay play the most beautiful song. Like, um, I'm I'm so proud of this business, you know. Um, and it just felt like that scene in it's a really bad link to make, but the Wolf of Wall Street when Leo DiCaprio is like, um, I'm not giving up. Yeah, I'm not fucking giving up. And then the brokers or whatever are like, yeah. I felt like that guy, you know. Um, yeah, it was really hard. My team wouldn't have known. Um, and maybe they should have known. Maybe founders do a little too much of that band on the Titanic. And I think for a business my size, you know, looking back with everything I know now, I should have brought at a bare minimum our senior leaders in to say, uh, we ain't good.

Steph 6:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Cherie 6:28

And I think what made it especially harder was not only was the business not going well, every person around that time was not doing well individually. They were in forced lockdowns, first time in what, a hundred-plus year type um event. Um, people are just doing this thing that they were seriously unprepared for. I had some people on my team, you know, living alone in a one-bedroom apartment, experiencing a level of loneliness they've never felt before. And then on the other end of the spectrum, I had some people homeschooling three, four kids, you know, that's not fun. No. Um, and so in fact, it's not, it was never homeschooling, it was pandemic schooling, is what teachers refer to it now. Like they're like, hey, parents, like love you, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. You were not homeschooling, you were pandemic schooling. So there wasn't a lot of schooling happening. And, you know, it got to this point, even at the digital picnic when we were so used to being such a team, it got to this really shitty point where people were sort of arguing over who had it worse. Like, I just I really hated that period. You really felt um the divide between, say, a working parent and the person really slogging it out in a one-bedroom apartment thinking I'm gonna die from loneliness, you know. Um, and it shouldn't have been a competition. Everyone had it hard in really different ways. But if it is a competition, I'm gonna say I fucking had it the worst.

Steph 7:52

Victor's classic founder, right? Yeah, what a bro. She's like, I really shouldn't have been like that. But if it was, I'll take the kid.

Cherie 8:02

Let's stop arguing. I had it worse. And the reason why I used to say this to Dave, and I wouldn't never, I would never share this with team, but I used to cry all the time during this period, Steph, because I was just saying to Dave, I don't know what it's like to do just COVID because I'm doing COVID 24, 30 plus times in 20, 30 plus different ways, you know, for each member on the team and contractors and just even clients for the love of God. Like you could argue it was 50, 60, 70 plus different ways of doing one global pandemic, um, while still living in a very lucky country throughout that. So I will, you know, just say I'm not a victim. Um, you know, the fact is, um it just it was quite the crunch and it really, really took a toll on me. Um, I know enough about myself through really in-depth leadership assessment to know that my particular personality and and just the way that I'm built, I'm not built, I don't get high from conflict. I don't, I'm not one of those people in those industries where I'm like, God, I can't wait to fight with some fucking people today. You know, I just couldn't think of anything worse, to be really honest. Like, it's such an energy drain for me to be in conflict all the time. I'm just that, I'm that annoying one in friendship groups where I'm like, can't we all just get along? Have you ever been in the group chat where it breaks into a fight and you just sit there like, uh, guys, guys. I'm that. My friends all call me Switzerland. I'm just so, so neutral and just not for fighting. So, yeah, if I'm being really honest, um, I said that tunnels of shit start before it feels like a tunnel of shit. I can get realistic and recognize that we had significant cultural problems niggling well before this really felt tunnel of shitty, you know, and I definitely put my head in the sand over these. I did not have at this time the leadership acumen to recognize the red flags or know how to deal with them because admittedly, founders, we most of us, don't go in with much, if any, leadership experience, you know. Um, I know for a fact that I I launched into the digital picnic for nothing other than the absolute love of content strategy. That's just everything else I've had to learn, you know. Um, and so yeah, I definitely put my head in the sand on some really challenging cultural problems at the digital picnic that I wished I'd not. You know, we had really non-existent feedback culture when it was given, really explosive reactions to really basic feedback, you know, designed to help a person grow. And, you know, that's on me. That's definitely on me. But I can remember the most uh Dave refers to it as my most piss week moment in the history of God love Dave. Thanks, Dave.

Steph 10:48

Um keeping you so humbled.

Cherie 10:50

Oh, so humbled, forever humbled. He's like, wow, Shaz, that was piss weak. So I'd given some pretty basic feedback, really constructive, um, definitely intended to help a person grow. The response was explosive. Um, I was so caught, I just couldn't even believe the reaction. I definitely thought I'd made a mistake. Like I thought, oh my God, I don't know how to give feedback because this is um unhinged, you know. So I felt terrible. So I bought that person a gift. Oh piss week. Piss week. Dave has a point. All right, Dave. Uh, and I just I share that one story because I want to let anyone who's listening know, yeah, what a way to erode any good thing that you've tried to achieve by giving someone feedback by going immediately into fawn. It's like I keep using this analogy, and I'm, you know, I share it all the time, but it reminds me, my leadership back then reminded me of those dogs in a dog park that when another dog approaches, you're straight on your back, all four legs in the air. I was like, ah, you know, um, and that's that's piss week. Definitely take full accountability for being the reason that our culture got to such a non-constructive, pretty uninspiring, you know, kind of spot. I always say, like, if you think having tough conversations are it that if that's hard for you, wait until you see the result of not having those tough conversations.

Steph 12:15

Literally, so much worse. That's in all life.

Cherie 12:18

Oh my lord.

Steph 12:19

Not just professional, but all life. And once you have them, you feel so much better, right? But there's always that little voice in your head that's like, just don't say anything.

Cherie 12:26

Yeah, or like, or if you do, oh, here you have a gift. Sorry for trying to help you grow, you know. So, yeah, look, really horrific people, please, around this time, right through to senior leadership. Like, if how are they gonna get inspired to, you know, um, yeah, do better when they're not seeing that from me? Um, yeah, it wasn't great. All in all, 2020 laid a really dangerous foundation for what was coming next. I'm gonna say though, in this year, it wasn't all bad. We actually had some wins throughout this period. Many of many actually, but I'm not gonna name them all because um I'm talking tunnel of shit here.

Steph 13:05

Yeah, today's today is the negatives, guys.

Cherie 13:08

Absolutely. You ain't here to be inspired, you're here to be like, whoa.

Steph 13:11

Yeah, hope we'll come in episode two.

Cherie 13:15

But look, I do want to reference two beautiful things that I was really proud of uh during this period because it just reminds me of who I am as a person. Like it actually reminds me that even in the depths of you know, tunnel of shit, I can still find a way to find the good, right? So, two things that come to my mind is one, I really hated how much we were spending on our rent. Um, it was such a diabolical waste of money when we couldn't at all even visit the offices. So we opened them up to multiple folk who were experiencing homelessness. And we even partnered with uh like a vigilante group that uh gets women out of DV homes for the first 24 hours because where we were was the perfect location, you know, in terms of safety. I think channel seven, nine, and ten caught wind of that and wanted to push that uh in the media, I guess, like on literally TV. Um I should share the screenshot with you, Steph. I've got it somewhere in my LinkedIn DMs, but I said, no, no, we're not doing this to be shared on TV. Uh, we're doing this because it just feels good to do something quietly and silently and you know make a difference. But I was really proud of that. I really was. And then the second thing that I loved so much was during this year. This is taking a lot of businesses back in terms of memory, and some are gonna hear this and think, fuck you, TDP. Um but hear me out. Um we received two very unexpected cash injections uh for businesses that were impacted by COVID. We didn't apply for it. We we at this point, you know, we'd recovered from the 76% client loss. Um, so I did in no way would have signed up for any kind of cash injection because I was like, no, no, no, save that for the businesses who are literally folding, you know. And so we got two, both of them were $10,000. I didn't feel good about it. It just made me feel really unsettled. And at first I was like, I guess I'll keep this in the bank account, in a separate account, and find a way to, I just knew it was gonna get taken off me. I was like, someone's gonna figure out we were not meant to get this, right? And then I thought, no, I can do better. And I just realized I had this moment where I'm like, it's time to pay the rent to the first peoples, you know, and so we gave it to two indigenous organizations, and I just felt really proud. Like it was such a surreal feeling, Steph, to log online to a normal donations page. I didn't even know they could go up to 10,000, by the way. Yeah, you know, I've only ever donated to charities like to the tune of 100 or you know, something like that. And then I clicked 10,000, I was my hands were shaking. Yeah. Um, and I was like, I don't know if this is gonna work, but it did. Um, and it just made me feel really proud. Yeah, you know, uh, so we paid our rent. Um and that made me feel really good that even when you're in the thick of it, um, you can still find a way to do good. And and you know, it's like those people who might find wallets with a wad of cash in them and they just return it. Like I love, I've always loved people like that. My dad is one of them. Um, and I just felt like the government gave me this wallet with a wad of cash that did not belong to me. Yeah. Um, so I put it in the right hands, and I felt really proud of that. Anyway, that's too um, that's too shiny. This let's go back to the tunnel of shit.

Steph 16:34

That was far too shiny for episode one.

Cherie 16:37

We've promised a tunnel of shit, so let's get ourselves across to 2021. So let's talk financials.

Steph 16:44

Okay. I'm nervous.

Cherie 16:47

You should be.

Steph 16:48

So had at this point we recovered that loss that you were just talking about?

Cherie 16:52

We actually did. Yeah. Um, in that we let all the clients obviously leave. 76% did leave. They tore up their contracts. When they were in contract, but I knew that we would be the most gigantic pieces of shit if we held them to contract when their businesses were forced closed. Like who would do that? I know many in our industry would actually. I should I could almost answer that myself, but we could never do that. So we didn't. And then I thought, well, it's it's over. Like I just have this sick feeling. I couldn't believe, and I remember crying to Dave. There was a moment one night on the TV where um our current at the time prime minister got up and he couldn't even pronounce I think Pilates or something really basic. And he laughed. And this was about industries. He was revealing industries that had to be forced close and he couldn't pronounce it. And I just burst into tears and said to Dave, this is our country's leader laughing over like mispronunciation, like mispronouncing correct, but don't laugh. That's not funny because you're literally closing like livelihoods here. Um, and that's the moment I burst into tears because I said to my husband Dave, I've almost to this point, like something like five years in, right? Five-ish years into business, I've made one good decision after another. I haven't made the big mistakes that often close a business. And now this virus that I that no one could have predicted is probably on its way to closing my business. I just could not wrap my head around that. You know, I was just an absolute mess. Look, we got lucky where a few big government contracts came through. Um, they just knew so much about our business and only wanted to work with us. We didn't even have to go to tender, which is unheard of in government. Um, and they saved our asses. They absolutely say so. We regained what we'd lost in monthly recurring revenue through these um six-figure plus government tenders that we were servicing throughout COVID. And it was really proud work.

Steph 18:56

Yeah. Yeah.

Cherie 18:57

Guardian angels just absolute guardian angels. And you know what? Good things happen to good people. Um, so I feel like we were just really looked after, but deservedly so, you know. And it meant that we got to even at one point we got to do pro bono work with those indigenous organizations that we donated to. So that felt extra good. Yeah.

Steph 19:17

Full circle.

Cherie 19:17

Ah, amazing. So, all right, back to tunnel of shit.

Steph 19:20

Yeah, sorry, we keep moving.

Cherie 19:21

Two little optimists.

unknown 19:23

Yeah.

Steph 19:24

We're trying, guys. We're trying.

Cherie 19:27

Uh, so financials, let's get through to 2021 now. So 2020 was like the shock, and we didn't fare as poorly financially towards the end. We'd, you know, almost had a bit of a boom because e-learning really picked up because everyone was home, forced home. So they were like, well, I can't market, so I'll just upskill.

Steph 19:47

Yeah. Should we like let people know what e-learning means at TDP? What that looks like. My bad.

Cherie 19:52

Yes. All right. So that's all the teaching that we do for any businesses, large or small, and marketing professionals. For anyone who upskilled with us during that time, if you're listening now, thank you so goddamn much. You kept this business's doors literally open, and I'll get into that very soon. So heartfelt thank you, actually. I never forget those students. So, finances 2021, we had an external advisory group. It was awful. Um, we were paying a really large monthly retainer. Um, and we were promised really proactive accounting advice. You know, the founder was amazing, honestly, and that's what we sort of sold into. And then within a few months, we were flicked to team. Fair enough, honestly. Like a founder can't service everything, but it was really bad. Um, and so it went from proactive accounting advice to reactive, and then even worse than reactive, it got dangerously delayed. You've got to do better with your accounting. You know, a a business like ours within an industry like ours, we can't be playing two-month catch-ups on how the numbers are tracking, like especially in a year like this one. So, yeah, that was really, really bad advice. Um, what we should have done was what we have now, which is bringing that advisory in-house. Uh, it was always there. We just weren't putting our beloved Michelle Howe up in the lights that she deserves to be in, doesn't she, Staff? She does, yeah. She's an icon. She is a TDP icon. Um, she had, she's literally bachelor qualified to do this. We just were underutilizing this magnificent woman. I guess in 2021, we actually would have made an even bigger loss than the loss that I'm about to share. However, what happened was we're still in the thick of lockdowns at this point. But I'm really proud to share. I had this moment where I remembered who the fuck I was. Um, and I sat in um, this sounds like privileged girl talk, I promise. I live in the inner west of Melbourne. It is like, you know, small home central. There's no backyards. But I do have a walk-in wardrobe. And that's a big deal in the inner west. So I just want to say that walk-in wardrobe was kind of meant to be because it was the only fucking room in my home that was quiet, soundproofed. And I got to sit in there, it was so messy. But I put my desk in there, my Mac, uh, recording equipment, and I built a program from scratch that sold half a million dollars in sales. That we've never repeated that in all of TDP's history. People really believed in me, in us, in that program, and they genuinely benefited from it. So it was um, yeah, it was a really incredible program, a social media marketing accelerator. I was really proud of it. It made half a million dollars. Uh, I got a little too excited. Um, and I guess in Cherie cloning style, I ended up looking at how much we made and thought, I feel guilty. So I gave $1,000 to each TDP employee, but we also paid the tax on it. So it was actually quite a bit more. I think it came to a total of between 50 to 70k.

Steph 23:09

Oh. And what did Michelle say about that?

Cherie 23:13

Yeah. Look, she wasn't happy. Um, the worst part about it was it was an absolutely pointless spend. There are still some OGers at TDP and no problem. Like this, this is literally no problem, but they can't remember that happening. They're like, oh, oh, did that happen? And I'm like, yeah, it did. Um, so it just why would I do that? No one else built it. You know, like no one at all in any way, shape, or form contributed to that program. What I should have done was kept that 50 to 70 grand and put it towards a full-time employee, like maybe an entry-level coordinator, coming in and helping the goddamn team out for a whole year. You know what I mean? Um, I later learned actually, and I wished I'd learned before, I did Mel Brown's My Financial Adulting Plan and I learned about money mindset. You would have to do the course to understand. It was like this breakthrough moment for me where I realized why I'm like this. And it's not good, doesn't have beautiful roots. It's fed back to some childhood type stuff, won't go into that too much, you know. But to Mel Brown, like literally, if you're listening and thanks again for sponsoring this episode, it couldn't be a better fit because she, through her programs, uh taught me so much about why, why do I do that? You know, I should have believed that I was deserving of that. Um, and I just I really do regret giving so much of that away when it didn't mean anything to anyone because I remember their faces, they're like, oh, uh, okay, but they just didn't understand why they were even getting it. You know, it they were like, thanks, I guess. Like it had that kind of feeling.

Steph 24:59

Yeah.

Cherie 24:59

So it doesn't make those people receiving it feel proud because they didn't feel like they deserved it because they hadn't touched the program, you know, in any way, shape, or form. So I've learned so much. If I could go back in time, my God, I would definitely get that 50 to 70k, you know, back because the reality was that I spent days, nights, and weekends on this program for six months straight, Steph, before it launched. Six months of days, nights, and weekends. Yeah, it got to a point close towards the end of the build where I I think this is the first time ever that I hit full physical burnout and I had to keep pushing through, which is a disaster for founders. There's just no value in a business once the founder hits full, you know, physical and mental burnout. And I was there, and so I had to then delay the launch, you know, a little bit, um, just to kind of recover. So instead of that half a million dollars pushing us worlds ahead like it should have, uh it actually did nothing more than put band-aids over where we were really hurting within the business, which was that all of our departments were not hitting bare minimum revenue targets. Um, we were losing so much money across every department at the digital picnic that was only, I guess, superficially covered up by how well e-learning was performing, especially with that program. Now, at this point, alarm bells should have been ringing, but I think just a combination of that initial external advisory that I, you know, shared with you and my own internal, like, oh, just put my head in the sand and hope it gets better. It just had a superficially in a like, this is fine kind of mode, you know, it was not fine. So I think what was alive and really well for the digital picnic in 2021 was people please and really reactive leadership. So we made, I know what people are gonna think when they hear this, we made internal promotions that we couldn't even afford just because people stomped their feet and said, I need this. You know, I'm like, I I believe in you. Um, sure. Um, we made external hires before the work was even there, um, due to that reactive leadership. I guess don't get me wrong, like historically I have hired before the work has been there. I've usually done that knowing that it's just a couple of months away, not six months. Yeah. Not someone sitting and twiddling their thumbs in boredom, you know.

Steph 27:18

Just as they're warming up to the business and then they step into that work.

Cherie 27:23

It sets a really bad tone, to be honest. Like I would say to any founders, especially listening to this, if you hire people so far before the workers even there, they come in and they're like, oh, okay, cruise mode. And that is dangerous because when you actually give them work that gets them to not even beyond capacity, just literally capacity, they're like, ah, I can't do this. I can't do this. You know, it's not fair on them. Um, so yeah, I think around this period we were hiring when we were making 50 to 100k monthly losses.

Steph 28:01

And why?

Cherie 28:02

Because people please and the team saying, I'm at capacity, I'm beyond capacity, I need more support, I demand more support. And I was just the dog in the dog part, like, okay, yeah, I'll just make more-ups. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let me get that for you. Um, I felt like Aladdin, like genie in the lamp. You know, when he pops down, he's like, What do you need? What do you need? What do you need? Yeah, like it just felt it gave genie vibes, you know. I was like, okay. Uh, without the genie bank run.

Steph 28:28

Yeah.

Cherie 28:29

Shame about that. Um, so honestly, when I think back to 2021, um, that was such a rock bottom for TDP. It was just literally one of the worst years I've ever had. Our culture was something that I was just so uninspired by. It was so individualistic when I'm such a team player, um, absolutely lacking in accountability. We had some really great team members. Um, honestly, we really did, but not enough. And when you've got, say, a small selection of A players, but they feel surrounded by D, sorry to say it, but it's true, it's sort of you feel like you're drowning in folks who detract from culture rather than add to it. So it really didn't matter how good those A players were, honestly, if you've got the multiple B, C, even D, um, I can wholeheartedly say the science of leadership will tell you, and it doesn't use these exact words, but you're fucking cooked. Yeah. You know, um the writing's on the wall. The writing was on the wall. I've spoken finance, you know, but to um yeah, speak to the operations, you know, contributing to some of the big failures around this period. I will I want to first say finishing up financially on sort of more financy talk is you only have to do the math to understand that very soon we were half a million dollars down. I don't think you understand what it's like to be, I'm not an old person, but I'm also not young. I'm somewhere in the middle, right? And I just thought it felt like a life sentence, to be honest. I thought I am never gonna recover from this. And I remember just feeling so ashamed and feeling like I'd destroyed my husband and I financially for the remainder of our days. I definitely thought my kids, I could just picture them maybe even ending up with the debt or something. Like I just could not see a way out. I was in like, ah, kind of mode, you know. Honestly, a loss like that, which is huge, by the way, just so you know how long it takes for anyone listening. I have not repaid that debt yet. Like I've um taken small chunks off, but we ain't there yet. This is how long it takes to recover from really poor decisions and really weak leadership, or as Dave would say, this week. Thanks, Dave. Um, so the operations piece, you know, um basically our operations were costing us more than we were making. We were only really superficially covering it up, you know, by, like I said, the fact that our e-learning was doing unbelievably well during this period. It was doing so well. Um, but the issue was, you know, e-learning was at that time especially still only serviced by me. Those external advisors used to get so frustrated because, you know, they would say, uh, you could close your business tomorrow and you would be on a million dollar plus salary. And I couldn't even imagine a life like that. You know, I was like, really? Because I'm on, I think at the time I was on maybe 40 grand a year, maybe 60, I can't quite remember. You know, so I just used to feel really frustrated as well, Steph, because e-learning, I always used to say um to Dave, oh God, I just it feels like Mari Antoinette, you know, where whatever was not being fulfilled within the business from a management services perspective, they'd be like, just create a new course. And it just felt like Mari Antoinette, like, let them eat cake. I'm like, oh man, the people are starving, and the people is me, and I'm I'm tired. You know, um, so it just, yeah, it felt like that lack of accountability is a real problem to just think, oh, go and make another course. Like it just that's not how it should be. You know, the external advisors at this point were saying, okay, so you're working between 70 to 80 hours a week. Um, your yearly salary at this point was $40,000 per annum. How do you think this is going for you? My eyes are going great. Thanks for asking.

Steph 32:18

Tears just rolling down the face.

Cherie 32:21

Oh, like honestly, 40 under 40 at the time. It's like, where was Forbes? Like, come and talk to me and put me on your front cover. Um, so yeah, look, that monthly recurring revenue was missing. Um, and ironically, what we needed was leads to the business. But I would log into TDP's Instagram and we'd have every week um 10 plus DMs. Like, I know it doesn't sound a lot, but that's a lot for when you need leads and they're not there. You know, hi, I tried calling, but your phone just rings out. Um, so problematic, you know. Um, and I I did raise a lot, like, oh, uh, can I help? Like, can I pick up the phone? You know, but it it just it wasn't a vibe, you know. So I put my head in the sand on that one as well.

Steph 33:04

So who was meant to be picking up the phone?

Cherie 33:06

Just anyone. Just to keep in mind, people were homeschooling children still at this point. Yeah. So I didn't, I wasn't mad about the phone not being picked up. I just escalated it because I was like, I can take the phone. Yes. You can't pick it up, I can take that happily. I'll be like, yes, yeah, sign up. We'd love to support you, you know, um, and so on. So I think the moment I realized we were in absolute danger, it was a Monday morning. At this point, we were out of lockdowns. Um, for a short time, like it's just hard to remember which lockdown we were up to at this point. Uh, but with whatever we were at, it was somewhere in that point where we were actually allowed back in the offices. I remember realizing, oh my lord, it's got to a point where some folk on my team just don't respect me because I remember being pulled aside uh before a whip, might have been um kicking off with team and just gently, and they I don't think they were trying to disrespect, um, but it's just that I had dimmed my own light and allowed myself to become invisible within the own my own business. And they sort of said, like, best you don't speak in this meeting. Um the suggestion was I probably don't add value, you know. So pretty rough. Um, and so that's when I realized, oh, I'm invisible. Um, I remember that moment so vividly. I it's actually hard to talk about, so I can feel some tears in my eyes at the moment as I'm talking because that was um really fucking devastating to just realize wow, how does that happen? And I remember the light going out then. That's when it happened. I just remember I actually gave up, you know. Um, and it's really dangerous when the light goes out in a founder for a founder-led business, you essentially close the business's doors without officially saying it, you know. So from there on, every Monday and in almost every meeting, I shut up, you know, and I did, I remember thinking I won't talk. And I watched the business, I'd poured so much blood, sweat, and tears into it, and it just became something I wasn't even proud of. Like I just didn't feel really proud to put my name to it, to be really honest with you. It is without doubt the saddest I've ever, ever felt as a founder. Like, I I just can't describe the sadness. I hated my business, I hated driving to the offices, I listened to the most emo music on every drive. I I cried so, so much. I didn't think it was possible to cry that much. I just hated it. So that's when we reach rock bottom. Um, I hope you're enjoying this tunnel of shit episode, by the way. But let me take you to 2022 now. So by the end of 2022, we're half a million dollars down. Uh, I could not, for the life of me, see the way out. We were making consecutively uh consecutive monthly losses ranging between 20 to 100k lakh a shared. And the worst part of that is it didn't matter what figures I shared to team, even especially senior leadership, there was no reaction. There was just no SOS, like, ah, that's a real problem. I don't, I used to think, is there a tree in the backyard that just grows $100 bills that people think we can pluck from? Like the team, this is not good.

Steph 36:29

So at this point you'd said to team, hey, this is a reality now. I may not have shared it earlier, but I'm telling you now, this is bad.

Cherie 36:35

It's much like what you would know now, Steph, where we gather on a Monday and we talk numbers with the teams. We've we've done this deliberately now at the digital picnic since where we believe everyone has the right to that kind of transparent information, not the full brunt of it. We keep it like, you know, team friendly, especially for roles that just are not remunerated enough to take on that level of responsibility for in-depth numbers, right? But for the most part, we really transparently share with team. And yeah, we would share, okay, team, it's the end of this particular month. We lost over a hundred grand. Next. Like it really was that kind of energy. They're like, oh, okay. Um, and I thought, nah, actually not, my friends. Um, you know, that's more than I earn per year in one month lost. Actually, we're not good. Um, and that's on me. That is not on the team. That is absolutely 1000% on me. I just was not holding folk to account and saying, um, not good. We've got to make some changes. You know, I I wasn't bringing the sense of urgency, um, and yeah, it wasn't great. Now you can imagine I'm really tired at this point as well. I'm working some big hours on fuck all pay. Um, so the worst thing you can do is hire when you're tired. Um, but I did that. And I made the worst hire that TDP's literally ever made. Um, and it was not great because it was in that particular era where we couldn't afford to make a not so great hire. Let's get ourselves to September 2022. I'm beyond defeated at this point. I can see at this point no way out. I wanted to close the business and I tried to do that. Um, this will be a bit of a shock to a lot of people listening because I never shared this on social media. Why would I? Oh my god. Basically close it for it.

Steph 38:32

I wanted to close this, you know.

Cherie 38:35

Um, and so I wanted to do it with integrity. And when I got the external advice, I realized that the payment alone on closing a business with regards to so many long-term employees needing what is justifiably theirs. So payouts, we didn't have a dollar to do anything like that. So that was when I just thought, oh my lord, I am literally trapped. I can't do this anymore, but I can't even afford to close. Um, it's it's messy, you know. So I decided the best thing I could do would be to sell the business. I packaged it up and I wanted to make sure I sold it really well and to a person who could just probably do better than I could, that I thought I could do at the time, probably needed to be obviously a really wonderful human being and a talented marketer. That's what I was looking for. But they needed to be a bit of a hard ass because at that point I realized um good guys finish last in my industry and I'm like finishing last, you know, in the very like sense of the word. Um, so I did. I quietly put that on the market for sale, this business, and a direct competitor immediately offered to buy the business. Um, there was some back and forthing because they were not uh in Melbourne, and it was basically ready to go. However, just before the sale officially went through, I got COVID. Um, I think it might have been my first time going down to COVID, actually. So uh there we go. That shows how introverted I am. I don't think I went down to COVID until 2022, which is quite the victory for a Melbournian.

Steph 40:08

Joining that club quite late.

Cherie 40:10

Literally, I think I might have got it from bloody coals. Can you believe it? Just getting some grapes. Dagnam it. Not to go into too much detail, but the sale fizzled. I think it was meant to be. It was at that moment that I realized nobody's coming to save you, you know. And I think more business owners need to realize that. Um, we keep thinking an external advisor or this particular consultant or X or Y or the next great hire that I'm making while I'm tired, or you know, insert whatever thing you think is going to save you. Shush. That is just not true. The only thing that can save, especially at this point, it was me, you know. And so I just had to dig so bloody deep. I needed to bunker down. I needed to turn everything around because I knew I couldn't afford to close. Um, and I could not have half a million dollars on my mortgage, letting my family down like that. I fired that worst hire. I did have to make our first redundancy. Um, that was really hard. And then, really sadly, I had to go on to make two more redundancies within a three-month period. So the two additionals ended up happening within 2023. Still to this day, there are online reviews online about me that talk about how disgusting it was that I did that. But I would just say to those people, have you ever run a $2 million per annum pay run? Um, because until you have and until you've felt what it's like to be half a million dollars down with literally no way out, what do we what do you tell me? Show me where the tree is in the backyard with the $100 bills, because I, you know, I would love to know what the alternative solution was. That's the really rough thing about business, honestly, that you have to make just the worst decisions. I will say, found a hat-on, those redundancies broke me, honestly. I don't hire to fire, it's not in my DNA, you know. Um, but business had on, our largest operational expenses were wages, and our services, you know, being rendered were in no way coming close to covering wages and operational expenses. So, yes, it was the hardest decision, sure, but it was an absolutely necessary one. And I think if I was to have like a Jim Carrey from liar liar moment where you've got no ability to lie, I would say I should have the the bigger regret is sadly not doing that sooner because I delayed what seems like to be still to this day the inevitable, and the only place it got me to was half a mil down instead of 100K or 50k, you know. Um, so I pleased nobody. I have online reviews, you know, about myself because of those really hard decisions that a business had to make. Uh it's it's so unfair. Like it is, you know, it's just like for them too. Honestly, I I can imagine how it's just awful for everyone involved, you know. Um, but I should have done it sooner. I really should have. So that's a big story. This is episode one. This is tunnel of shit. We deliberately, didn't we, Steph? We said there is no hope in this episode because we want to take you to episode two where we talk about let's go back to Shaw Shank Redemption. Episode two is about, well, what happens when Andy Dupree climbs to his tunnel of shit? He gets to the island with Morgan Freeman. So in episode two, we are going to talk about island life, but this episode is dark and hard and shitty, quite literally. Um, but it's a very honest account of our no good, very bad year.

Steph 43:50

So if you want to listen to episode two, subscribe to the potty, best way to support us, and also we'll let you know when that one is out. We promise it'll be a little bit more positive than this one. Thanks for joining us.

Cherie 44:02

Thanks for listening to The Climb with Cherie Clonan and Steph Clifford. Here's to growth, grit, and bloody good stories.

Steph 44:12

This episode was brought to you by Mel Brown Money, who makes dealing with your finances simple without the jargon or finance bro energy. Mel is a financial educator, best-selling author, and former financial advisor who's helped tens of thousands of people understand their money, invest with confidence, and actually build wealth. And if the word wealth feels icky, think about it this way she helps you build choice. Through her courses, webinars, masterclasses, speaking, and books, Mel brings both the heart and the smarts to finance. Because the truth is, you're never too young, too old, too broke, or even a little bit broken to get better with money. And that's exactly what Mal helps you do.