Hyperfocus builds the business until boredom bites back

Hyperfocus can look like a superpower from the outside, but living inside it is a different story. We get honest about what autistic hyperfocus actually feels like and how it helped build The Digital Picnic when the hours were long, the stakes were high, and the salary was, frankly, nothing.

Then we flip the coin to the part founders rarely admit out loud: boredom. Not the harmless kind, but the kind that creeps in when you feel underutilised, disconnected, or tempted to “fix” things that aren’t broken. We talk about why a bored founder can destabilise a business, create fake urgency, pick unnecessary fights, and chase dopamine at the team’s expense, plus what to do before that energy leaks into decisions you regret.

You’ll also hear a practical framework for separating boredom from true misalignment.

If you’re navigating neurodivergent leadership, founder identity shifts, or the messy middle of small business growth, this chat will give you the next steps.

This episode was proudly sponsored by PocketSmith.
Get 50% off your first two months of PocketSmith’s Foundation plan here.

Key Takeaways: 

• How autistic hyperfocus can drive early business growth 
•  Why founder boredom is a hidden risk in business 
•  The difference between boredom and outgrowing your role
•  How pattern recognition and deep focus create a business advantage 
•  Why underutilisation is dangerous for neurodivergent founders 
•  How bored founders create chaos, self-sabotage, and fake urgency 
•  Why updating your founder role and job description can reignite growth 
•  The bigger lesson, hyperfocus builds the business, but reinvention keeps it healthy
  
  

Hosted by Cherie Clonan [@cherie_thedigitalpicnic] and co-hosted and produced by Steph Clifford [@stephssocials] 

Follow us on Instagram @theclimbpod_

Check out our agency @thedigitalpicnic > we teach digital marketing, and we can manage yours, too. 

Transcript

Sponsor Money Tracking That Sticks

Cherie 0:00

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Steph 0:05

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Cherie 0:11

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Steph 0:33

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Acknowledgement Of Country

Hyperfocus And Founder Boredom Setup

Cherie 0:46

If you'd like to manage your money like a pro, PocketSmith has a special deal for the Climb listeners. Get 50% off your first two months of Pocket Smith's foundation plan. To get your deal, go to PocketSmith.com/slash the Dash Climb Dash Podcast. See our show notes for more details. We're recording this episode on the beautiful, unceded lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We want to express our gratitude for being able to create this podcast on this land, and we pay our respects to their enduring culture and connection to country. We recognize that sovereignty was never ceded, always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the Climb, a podcast about the messy, brilliant, relentless journey of building something meaningful. As an introvert who believes in adding value, not noise, every 40-minute conversation is built to respect your time, but also actually teach you something useful.

Steph 1:43

Today we're talking all about hyperfocus and how it built TDP in a way, Cherie. But we're also going to touch on boredom in founders and how that can be really dangerous in the journey to creating a thriving business. So again, I'm going to hand over to you, Sheree, to kick us off and tell us a little bit about your experience with Hyper Focus and how it got us here.

From Lion King Obsession To TDP

Cherie 2:04

Yeah, okay, so I've um loved a quote for a really long time that I actually heard at a neurodivergent conference a few years back now, where they just named the elephant in the room, which was to be neurodivergent is to be intense. And I really loved that Steph because it was such a true statement. Like I do think neurodivergent folk are really intense human beings, you know. And so part of that intensity is, you know, our wiring for hyper focus in general. And um how that's always showed up in my life is just absolute obsession. And baby Cherie days, we're talking, I'm gonna say 12 years old-ish or maybe 11. I, as a kid, was obsessed with the Lion King, and so my hyperfocus was on collecting all of the Lion King cards, the whole set, and just getting so obsessed about that and wanting to, you know, complete the collection. By the way, Steph, in case you're just dying to know I did. So benefits of hyper focus.

Steph 3:00

Okay, I'll backspace that question.

Cherie 3:02

Thank you so much.$28 per week paper around. We love you. Yeah, now as an adult and having a business, obsession looks different, and it does show up in business. And I'm gonna say it's the hyper focus that really helped me in TDP's early years because the truth is it's the most you'll ever work for the least you've ever earned. When I say the least you've ever earned, I didn't get a salary for the first three years. When I say least, I'm talking nothing. It's like growing up on a farm and walking out to see your little chickens, and they have not laid any eggs for three years straight, you know. So you're going to need some kind of obsession. And thankfully, for a lot of neurodivergent people, that shows up with just, yeah, that natural kind of inclination to go really hyper-focused on some, yeah, really incredible things. And so it's late nights, it's really deep immersion, like it's just absolute obsession, honestly, and really happy obsession. Like it was not, there was not one part of that where I felt honestly unwell. If anything, it just gave me energy slash, you know, gave me life. One of my favorite things about that is an ability to see patterns that others can't. I think for the most part, it feels like a bit of a blessing. Uh, I think I use and exploit my own self in that sense. Like I've just got this ability to see things that it's taken me too long to realize, oh, I don't think other people are clocking that, but I do, you know, um, and that's been really beneficial in, you know, building out the business. And so if I was to give it a title, I think hyper focus for me in the early years of the digital picnic felt like really becoming the engine of the business. And it was a really happy place. I I bloody loved it.

Steph 4:46

Love that. And for anyone who's listening that maybe hasn't experienced hyper focus before, very different to maybe from a neurotypical perspective of just being obsessed with something for a day or something, right? Like they're very different experiences.

Cherie 5:00

It's so much more intense than that. I think historically, I've probably done people's heads in with hyperfocus. You know, like I know now looking back on my life, I've probably been a little bit annoying to some people when I'm just really hyper-focused on something. And I it's um the only way I can describe it to neurotypical folk is like the Ice Age movie with that animal that's obsessed with the acorn and just won't give it up. The whole movie, you know.

Steph 5:29

It's killing me. I can't think of its name.

Cherie 5:31

What is its name? Scratchy or something. Scratch. It's scratch.

Steph 5:34

Is it?

Cherie 5:34

I think so. Do we need to put a podcast disclaimer here to say there's every chance that this is not the animal's name, but I'm gonna say it's Scratch. Okay. Yeah, but that's hyperfocus in visual format, movie format. Not one point throughout that entire movie, uh, a whole lice age, could he give up on that? Or she, I'm not sure if we identified a gender, they gave up on that acorn. That's hyper focus.

Steph 6:01

That's a squirrel.

Cherie 6:02

It's a squirrel, of course.

Steph 6:03

Skrat. It's called scratch. Amazing. Yeah. So in its peak um in the TDP years, what did hyperfocus look like in the business?

Cherie 6:13

I think what it's always gonna look like for me is this seemingly this this autistic spin. So spin means special interest um that I have in people. I've always had it. Honestly, I am literally obsessed with human beings, no matter honestly, who they are. Even the shady ones, I just I'm actually the obsession goes a different way where I want to figure them out. That works really well when you're in if you're working marketing. I've always said you're gonna want to like people. You know what I mean? Like I just don't know many important things. Yeah, I'm not sure I've met many marketers who genuinely hate people. Um, you're gonna have a really rough time in this industry if you do, by the way. So, you know, that's that's a big one. It's always been leaning into this content spin as well. So, again, special interest. I've always had an absolute special interest in content, and I think it pairs back with that love of storytelling. And so as I just keep moving through the industry, I just get a little bit obsessed with different ways that I can package up storytelling as the industry changes. It's in its early days, it was writing blog posts, and wow, you know, and now it's video format and so on, but it doesn't seem to matter what shifts within industry. I'll always fall back on that love, you know, for storytelling. I think as well, where my hyper focus has showed up really well within the business has been through these once per annum boot camps that we run. And I think I might irritate people because some of them are so successful that they're like, can you run it again? Or can you do the same boot camp next year? And it's I'm I'm a bit of an arsehole because I'm like, no, and also no. And my reasons why are I don't want to do it again. I love hyper focusing for that six-week sprint once per year and giving that group of humans everything that I've got to help them develop in that space that I'm teaching on. And then the second thing is I need to make sure that each year the topic checks out with what they should know this year. So if I was to repeat it, truthfully, we'd be so much more profitable because I wouldn't have to repackage everything from scratch, um, but I wouldn't be happy. My hyper focus wouldn't be, you know, satiated. And as well, I would say another area that it shows up within business is my absolute ability to hyperfocus and hyper-focus really well in cleanup. Uh, I love cleaning mess up at home. I am one of those annoying people who really like a clean home. I don't judge anyone for living anything, it's that's how I do me, right?

Steph 8:42

Can I ask you a question? Yes. If I have a glass of water and I put that glass on the bench, would you like to see that in the sink?

Cherie 8:48

Yep.

Steph 8:49

Yeah.

Cherie 8:52

As long as you're hydrated enough. Yes. Yes, in the sea. Yeah, got it. But I'm not an asshole about it. That's the thing. Like I'll just I'll wait for you to dip and then I'll be like, okay, this one goes in the dishwasher, you know. So yeah, I'm that guy. And how that translates in business is I love coming in to clean up mess. Hopefully not self-made. I don't like to just make mess to satiate the need to clean things up, but I have realized I'm really good in cleanup eras for TDP, which, you know, we're gonna clock 12 in years, 12 years in business this year. So I've I've cleaned up. I've definitely cleaned up in those 12 years. You know, any business that's done more than 11 years will have moments where something needs to be cleaned. Examples here, you know, something that comes straight to my mind, and we discussed it on, you know, our first two episodes, to be really honest, in my cleanup stage, just one small part of a cleanup was realizing when I took the role of a sort of managing director of the business again, uh, we didn't have updated job descriptions, and they also weren't super neuroinclusive. And I've always said all brains benefit, so I hyper focused on those things like I've never done before. It took me six weeks of like straight up hyper focus, and I spoke to HR mates and they said, Cherie, this will take you so much longer than six weeks. And I thought, okay, thanks. I really appreciate that. But actually, no, I did complete it in six weeks because I just underestimated the true strength of hyper focus. I was locked in. I loved it. Like I said in that episode, it actually made me fall in love with my business again, overhauling our JDs. They're actually due for another update soon, so I can't wait to hyperfocus on that, you know. And then another sort of moment that I can remember is, you know, we uh once upon a time made a particular hire who took a parental leave contract, but they just honestly they weren't right for that particular role. Great human, just not right for that particular role. Uh, so they came in to the role. It was a really senior position, and it was their understanding that senior leadership would be to delegate as much of their role as humanly possible. And that's honestly, probably, I guess, what works in much bigger corporations, which would have been where they'd hailed from. However, indie agency, no, you're gonna, you know, piss some people off if you roll in at the most kind of senior level and say, I'm not gonna do kind of any of this. And so we had a really constructive conversation and both agreed this might not be the environment for them. And we also only really had nine months left of that parental leave contract by the time we figured it out. Actually, it might have even been less. So there was no point re-recruiting. I just had to lock in alongside Savannah, who was in our business at the time, and we locked in together, and I would say hyperfocus really helped in that, you know, era as well.

The Pendulum Between Hyperfocus And Boredom

Steph 11:44

You've told me that hyperfocus is like a pendulum, like it swings between hyperfocus and boredom. So, did you want to touch on that other side?

Cherie 11:53

Can definitely touch on this because I've got the lived experience of this, and I think for any especially uh neurodivergent folk who are listening in, there's some genuine statistics going around about neurodivergent folk and especially autistic folk who could be unemployed or even worse for me personally, underemployed. Um, and what that means is underutilized, you know. So if I'm not utilized in a way that I feel like I should be, I will get bored really quickly and it's a danger spot. So I need to feel not just utilized, but utilized really well. And I get a bit of a high, you know, from it. So at this stage of the digital picnic, I've noticed that, you know, I don't want to be at all a bottleneck to anyone on the team, and so therefore TDP's growth. But I have noticed there are particular moments where I'm genuinely needed, and it's not through the team, probably not, you know, that they've tried everything in the lead up to, and then they're like, oh, Cherie, we're gonna need you for brainstorming on this particular decision or looping into this particular escalation and so on. And I've noticed, oh, I was of I was of genuine benefit here. I just love those moments. Like it's it's the antidote to boredom. It actually lights me up, you know, to be of genuine use and whatever the opposite of underutilization is. Like I don't want to be over-utilized. I don't want to um take advantage of my own like hyper focus and pattern recognition and solutions orientation and so on. But it does light me up to feel like I'm adding value. Touching on that underutilization piece, I can remember once upon a time many years ago, where my role probably had some overlap with another role here, and I wanted to be so respectful. And the same goes for them. Like they they wanted to be really respectful as well. And so we decided to kind of lock in and, you know, create a spreadsheet and just color code who would be on what so that we're not pissing each other off because that's the last thing I ever want to do, you know, to a person that I guess they didn't want to do that to me as well. And so we created the spreadsheet, color-coded it, wrote down kind of everything within each other's roles, figured out where there was an overlap, and then decided, well, where does everything fall? For that person employee side, they really want to impress a founder, right? Like, um, and so they took the bulk of everything. And I remember when we got into the meeting and I looked at the spreadsheet, I was like, oh, okay, let me, I don't just make I was like, oh, uh, it felt like the chicken with the eggs again. I'm like, maybe half an egg.

Steph 14:39

I don't even need to come in.

Cherie 14:40

Do I should I sign up for Centrelink or like I'm just not really sure what you would like me to do? And there were just only really two things, which was stay on TDP's content and manage TDP's online community. I was a community manager. Um, and that was my first role in this industry, like kind of 17 years ago. So I was just like, ooh, that's some underutilization, and I knew I was gonna get bored. Kind of regret not figuring that out sooner. I was just doing this uncomfortable dance where I didn't want to look like the bottleneck. I didn't want to be that founder. I wanted to really respect, you know, um, how that kind of list uh panned out on the spreadsheet. But at the same time, I got so, so bored. And we'll touch on, you know, this later, but you never want a bored founder in the business. And then let's not go founder side on this as well, because I also want to talk about even these days, moments where I see potential boredom creeping in for some of our absolute A players, you know, they're gonna need a project to work on. They're going to hate feeling underutilized. And so, even one example, and I love this person for it, but they've very explicitly said, look, I don't have an interest in progressing to the point where I have direct reports. And, you know, for a lot of people, uh, you know, especially on LinkedIn, you always think that advancement has to have everything with ultimately building out direct reports. That's not always the growth trajectory, but it can be in an agency structure, I will say that. So I remember feeling like, oh, I'm slightly concerned because I'm just wondering what growth can I create for them that our agency can facilitate. I also know they're a genius, you know, and so I thought, okay, if you don't want direct report reports, build out an AI agent or AI agents plural. In fact, build a department of them. Um and I love the idea of having a team of AI agents reporting through to this person. And thankfully, so do they. Yeah, you know, so that's gonna probably be their growth journey here at the digital picnic, and it's gonna be a really impressive one. So you wanna make sure that, and I know with that person they really benefit from. Um, they've got a desire, a natural lean towards hyper focus. So I just know they're gonna have a freaking field day with that particular phase of their career journey. Yep.

Steph 17:11

I love that. So, what does the boredom truly feel like? Obviously, you've built something so successful, and ideally you're excited about that, you know, most days or aiming for every day, but realistically most days. But yeah, what does it feel like when it's just not clicking?

Cherie 17:25

Yeah, I think I really thought about this and I thought, what is the feeling? And for me, I landed on like I built this, but I'm not excited by it anymore. That's a shit spot to be in. Uh so going back to that spreadsheet, when I realized I was just on TDP's content plus community management, I thought, I'm I'm gonna get bored because I we we work together on content. You and I both move pretty fast. We would both have time outside of that to work on other pieces. I mean, for you, you've brought a whole podcast to life. Sorry, outside of content. You know what I mean? So we don't want to underutilize clever women, right? So yeah, it's just it's like I built this, but I'm no longer excited by it. Um, it's that loss of stimulation. For me, it can end up feeling really like I'm disconnected from my own company. I don't like that feeling. And for some founders, there's an ensuing identity crisis, you know. So some people will ask themselves, well, if I'm not in the weeds anymore, who the flip am I? You know? And you've just got to let go of feeling like you have to be the best at literally everything. And for me, the biggest transformation was moving from being the doer to being the leader. Yeah.

Outgrowing Your Role Not Your Business

Steph 18:41

Have you ever felt like you were outgrowing TDP?

Cherie 18:45

Yes. Coming up to 12 years in business this year. And so I just don't think you can spend that long on these same things, especially as a neurodivergent woman who's dopamine deficient, you know, and always looking for the next kind of hit of dopamine. And so, you know, I've I've had a lot of moments where I feel like, oh my gosh, is this it? Like, is this the moment I might outgrow my own business? And I never want that because I really love this business. Um, you just you pour so much in, and so it can feel really disorientating when you have this niggling feeling like, is this what it feels like that the point of outgrowing a business? Um, one day you just kind of realize this doesn't stimulate me the same way that it used to. What I landed on is realizing when I'm feeling that, I actually haven't outgrown my business. I've just outgrown that particular role within the business. So I had to learn a really important lesson around telling myself, hey girl, you're an employee too, you know. And I really thought about that a lot and thought about what happens employee side. Well, you get regular one-to-ones, you get feedback from like a leader, like a manager, a mentor, a coach, a guide, you create growth plans for yourself with those people within those one-to-ones, you know, what else? You have a yearly review, bare minimum, right? You have job description updates, there's even potential for promotion. Like the list goes on. But when you're the founder, I have to say I don't have one-to-ones. None. And the only feedback is it's complaints. That's the only feedback I get. You know, good kind. It's not the good kind. Um, and that's okay. Like all of that's growth, but you know, there's none of that for me. I I don't even update my JD, to be so honest with you. But well, I didn't, but I do now. And so, you know, that was the biggest um shift for me is realizing if I've got this niggling feeling, it might just mean that after two years, lo and behold, I'm probably due a promotion. Yeah. And so that's what I've sort of, or at least a JD update. What do I need to shift up in this JD to make sure I'm still in love with this role? Because just like an employee, if you're feeling that niggling feeling, I would never want anyone on my team to stick around in that boredom/slash, it will turn into resentment, it really will. And so you know, Steph, like we're like, hey, what what can we do? Like if you're if you're hitting a ceiling here, what what's what does it look like out there and how can we help you get there? You know, and so on. So what I've really learned is it's the discomfort itself, that's not the red flag. It's actually a growth signal. So I usually pat myself on the back. I don't get the pay rise, but what I do instead is have like a quiet promotion where I'm like, I get to focus on this now, you know, and so I just update that JD. Uh oh, look, at one point I'm sure I'll get a pay rise too. I should work on that, right? But yeah, I'm usually just pretty excited by the discomfort now. Uh I'm clear on that, meaning you're due for a JD kind of upgrade to shift up the KPIs, even like whatever it has to be. But check in with yourself. If you're not doing the fortnightly one to ones, you can at least have one per. Year, right?

Steph 22:00

So I feel like a lot of small business owners would be hearing that right now and like loving that idea of giving their own JD a bit of an audit half a year, if not more. Yes. And like falling back in love with their business and their role. So important.

Cherie 22:14

I think so too. I I think there might even be a lot of business owners listening who probably haven't even created a JD for themselves. So do it now. If you're driving, pull over. But seriously, write that down and just say it's probably time to write a job description for myself and set some KPIs and get excited again about outgrowing this JD and moving into the next one and so on.

Steph 22:38

So what do you think people and probably even business owners misunderstand about that phase of founderhood?

Cherie 22:45

I think ego always gets in the way. Like everything in life, when you figure it all out, right? Like not that I have, but I've just realized that ego seriously gets in the way of so much. It really does. And so I think a lot of people, when it comes to this particular misunderstanding, they they consider that boredom equals failure. You know? That's just ego in the way. And so I say boredom is the opposite of failure. It actually means that you've mastered something. And so, Steph, you'll know this as well. Here at the digital picnic, we run everyone would know them as yearly reviews, but internally we call them IDPs, which means individual development plan. In those plans, we give ratings, which sounds so clinical, and I know every workplace does this, it's so HRZ, right? But those ratings uh start at one and move through to five. Five equals mastery. It takes a lot to seriously master something. Like we kind of normalize leading up to the reviews, hey, don't downgrade yourself, but also be aware that mastery is like that's a big deal. For someone to score all fives, I would be saying to them, you will want to advance from this role, whether it's internally here, if the opportunity is available or honestly elsewhere, because staying in mastery for too long, that's when the boredom kicks in, you know. So think about that for yourself if you're listening. Like if it's not failure, is it? Boredom isn't failure. It means you've mastered something and so you've got to do something with that awareness. I think also though, boredom can definitely be mislabeled as burnout. I've always found when I really get honest with myself, burnout needs rest, whereas boredom needs reinvention, you know? And they are two really different things.

Steph 24:35

All right. So how does autistic hyperfocus show up in business? And it's kind of like a real advantage by the sounds of it.

Cherie 24:44

Yeah, it's um it can be an advantage. I love though this viral meme that circulates online in like neurodivergent land, where some people sort of jokingly say, if you can't handle me at my executive dysfunction, you don't deserve my hyperfocus, um, which I always get a giggle over because that feels, you know, really real and relatable. Um, Steph, we were having like plane chats recently. I think it was on the plane. Gosh, we've done so much together in the last month. I don't know where the setting was, but I think I was telling you something like my husband Dave, you know, flicked something across to me. And I was just like, timing, Dave, like I've got so much going on, and why did you flick this thing to me? And I think it was because he just knows that I've got this kind of competitive advantage, hyper-focus-y thing, and he just thought she can handle this. But I was like, actually, I can't. I've got too much on my plate. So yeah, it's an advantage, but it can also be a disadvantage as well. Um, sometimes people can look at hyper focus and mistake that for you just nailing every aspect of your life when there's a lot going on internally where you're like, hell. But for me, honestly, autistic hyperfocus is this ability to go. I've always described it the same way, I go incredibly deep, I'm incredibly fast, and I actually stay there longer than most people would be able to. So that's the difference I would say when you asked earlier on, like, what's the difference when someone's hanging out with an obsession for say a couple of days, or I would say incredibly deep, incredibly fast, and they stay there so much longer than most people would. Um, so obviously in business, that is an unbelievable competitive advantage for the digital picnic. We've been open for 11 plus years, and 50% of that time has been in and out of various crises. I can stick around, you know. I can I can definitely stick around, and that is a competitive advantage. You need obsession. I benefit from pattern recognition, and I'm also someone who can sit with a problem until they crack it. That's what I love most about me, actually. So, hyper focus, uh, if you need to understand sort of the difference, it definitely doesn't skim, it instead solves, you know. So uh for me, it's pattern recognition at speed. And when you're in that deep hyper focus uh state, patterns stop feeling hidden. And I again going back to what I said earlier, I just love this about myself so much where I can get pulled into sometimes honestly meetings that can feel confronting to others, but I just it feels so easy for me, to be honest, because I just have locked in on calm, regulated energy as my leadership is really evolving. And so I'm not honestly really distressed in some crises. I say this in a vertical, but uh also I can figure things out really quickly and just kind of know how to how to let it all play out, and that feels like a real competitive advantage.

Steph 27:38

And then on the flip side of that, what happens when that hyper focus has nowhere to go?

Why Bored Founders Self Sabotage

Cherie 27:43

Yeah, always makes me sad to hear that, right? Like you don't want hyper focus with nowhere to go. I've actually been really lucky, to be so honest with you, because quite literally, almost by definition, what I do in this industry, in this in my job here, it's attached to two of my lifelong spins. So it's that special interest in people and special interest in storytelling. So I'm lucky. I'm one of the really lucky ones. Um, I feel sorry for the folk whose hyper focus leaves them feeling like they've got nowhere to go with that. But I would say I'm definitely one of the luckier founders where boredom for me has only ever meant like mastery. And luckily, even in some of those things that I do feel like I I master, it's still attached to a spin. So, you know, that's I'm a lucky gal. I would say you have to keep evolving though. Otherwise, that boredom could be really dangerous for your business. So I've actually noticed that in many of the founders that TDP's worked across, you know, 11 plus years of business now. I don't like seeing it, to be honest, Steph. It actually makes me really uncomfortable. And I know a lot of agency owners talk about probably some of the clients that they avoid working with. Um, and it might be, you know, the obvious agency red flags, I hate using even the word red flag, by the way, it's it's a really sucky word. But the obvious things would be, say, a prospective client coming across to you and saying, You're our last hope, or like just the obvious, right? But not a lot of agency founders touch on this one. And I'm gonna tell you, I don't like to work with a board founder. Yeah. Uh, it is absolute guaranteed chaos. And so a board founder who stays bored is some of the most dangerous client relationships that you can honestly clock. I really can't stand it. It's because of this, I think that board founder dips into some of the most dangerous things I've seen play out as an agency owner and in my agency-owning life. Uh, one of the most dangerous ones is the level of self-sabotage that gets attached to, you know, the board founder. So, what that can look like and has looked like for TDP, because we've worked with a few board founders in 11 years of business. They pick unnecessary fights, they over-involve themselves, they start unnecessary projects, and it just really starts to feel like freaking whiplash, you know. It actually strategically, sorry to swear, but it strategically fucks the business, you know. It really does. And I, you know, we're strategists and creatives, and I'm just thinking, uh they disrupt their own team internally, but they also do the same to the external team, which is us, you know, the agency. And then the worst part is those two teams do not get along when nothing could matter more. You've got to get along. If you want results from your agency, you need to have a really good working relationship, a respectful working relationship, and a high trust working relationship. And a board founder can honestly sabotage, you know, all of that. The other thing we've noticed is they create fake urgency and really unnecessary chaos. They chase new ideas for dopamine because they're bored. They're wanting to kind of burn it down and start again, you know. So the main thing is a board founder doesn't sit still and they absolutely destabilize things. And that has been, I think we've had this come up for us in 11 years. I would say we've had this scenario play out about five times. And every single time, Steph, it plays out the same way. And sometimes I don't even think the founder realizes A, that they're bored, and B, how much self-sabotage follows that boredom.

Steph 31:32

It reminds me of like people when they're in a bad relationship and you're watching it, you're like, get out of there. You clearly don't want to be there. So you're true. Like you're just hurting yourself, you're hurting the other person, like it's just a train wreck.

Cherie 31:46

Absolutely true. I remember dating a guy that it just wasn't, he wasn't right for me. And the worst part is he was just the loveliest guy. I ended up just picking fights to try and, you know, it's like a it's the same, it's that's a good, that's a good shout, actually. Good comparison.

Steph 32:02

But it's actually like, no, this is awful. Like you need to get out of here.

Cherie 32:06

Yes, so true.

Steph 32:07

I feel like we need to do a dating episode at some stage, maybe season two, Shrey. That would be fun. Yeah, I'd love to know your dating stories. All right, um, back to back to this. We'll we'll save that for season two. Um, have you ever found yourself disrupting things when they weren't actually broken?

Boredom Versus Misalignment Checklist

Cherie 32:24

Yeah, I think for me, the dead giveaway is exactly that, like feeling like I need to fix something that actually isn't broken. Even bringing it back to that job description example I gave um before. If I find myself just a smidge board, I could probably think, oh, I should overhaul all of the JDs, but it's like Shreets, it hasn't even been a year since you did this last. That's a bloody big project. And you're you're just essentially fixing something that actually isn't broken. So now I just kind of calm my farm and respect that project for how big it really is and try to not buy into the fake urgency of someone saying, Oh, there's one thing in my JD that doesn't reflect what I do in my day-to-day. And I'm like, Yeah, but that's all Australian workplaces, to be so honest. I really think for me, the dead giveaway is when I'm starting to fix things that aren't really broken, you're then essentially not really solving a business problem, to be honest, you're just solving your own boredom. Um, and if you don't channel that energy properly as a founder, it will actually leak into the places that doesn't really belong.

Steph 33:23

So if a neurodivergent leader is listening to this or founder and thinking, oh gosh, I'm feeling that boredom at the minute, how do they know if it's boredom or if they're actually outgrowing their business?

Cherie 33:34

Uh yeah. I've I've got a whole list on this because I have lived it, not actually so much myself, but lived the experience of having partnered with board founders at an agency level. And I've I've actually got a list here, um, Steph, if you want me to read off it. Because I just want people who are listening to maybe sort of have those, maybe some of you, it's like little heart-pounding moments where you're like, oh, this is me. Yeah. You know, if I were to break it up hopefully really well, boredom is about stimulation. Outgrowing is actually about misalignment, you know. So boredom kind of tends to come and go. Whereas outgrowing really sticks. Boredom can be solved with rest. Outgrowing needs reinvention, boredom wants novelty, outgrowing needs evolution, boredom is restless, outgrowing is confronting. Boredom leads to distraction, which is shite for a business. Outgrowing leads to reflection. But I think a big one for me has been, you know, if the discomfort actually follows you, even on your best days, like your best days at work, it that feeling is still following me. Um, there's a there's a misalignment. I'm in I'm in the latter rather than the former. Yeah, you know. So I think to anyone listening, I would really implore you, don't rush to fix the feeling, you know, just uh actually sit with it long enough to really understand it. And especially for the neurodivergent founders, I would say hyper focus gives you such a strong sense of identity when you're in it. Um, so just call it exactly what it is, like it's a competitive advantage. But when that fades, you can actually feel like you've lost your edge, and it's a really unsettling feeling for me. I don't like to feel like I've lost that feeling. I don't know if you're on um the recent TikTok FYP, but there's this trend going as at the time that we're recording where it's like, I've got the magic in me, you know, and I feel like I would love to dip into that trend somehow to showcase hyper focus, you know. But when you lose that, you do really feel like the magic in you is kind of fading out and you're losing your edge and it's not a good feeling. So you haven't actually done any of that, you've just outgrown where you're placing it.

Steph 35:51

I love that. That's such a good checklist, and I'm glad that you haven't outgrown TDP.

Cherie 35:57

You're still stuck with me, Steph.

Steph 35:59

Yeah, still gotcha. Um, but yeah, hopefully everyone enjoyed that episode. If you want to support us, you can subscribe and download the future apps. We will have another one coming for you next week.

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Cherie 36:11

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