How to get a job at The Digital Picnic

We pull back the curtain on what actually gets someone hired at The Digital Picnic. We share the practical steps that help you stand out, plus the mindset shifts that keep you grounded when you’re applying to a workplace you admire.

Key Takeaways: 

• To get a job at The Digital Picnic, tailor your application instead of mass applying.
• A good resume should be clear, relevant, and submitted as a PDF.
• Creative job applications only work when they are backed by real technical skill.
• If you want to work at TDP, explain exactly how your experience fits this specific role or business.
• Parasocial enthusiasm is not the same thing as job readiness or culture add.
• Strong candidates ask thoughtful interview questions and show how they would add value in the first 90 days.
• In a job interview, confidence matters.
• How you handle job rejection can shape future opportunities with that employer.

Hosted by Cherie Clonan [@cherie_thedigitalpicnic] and co-hosted and produced by Steph Clifford [@stephssocials] 

Follow us on Instagram @theclimbpod_

Check out our agency @thedigitalpicnic > we teach digital marketing, and we can manage yours, too. 

Transcript

Cherie 0:00

We're recording this episode on the beautiful, unceded lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We want to express our gratitude for being able to create this podcast on this land, and we pay our respects to their enduring culture and connection to country. We recognize that sovereignty was never ceded, always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the Climb, a podcast about the messy, brilliant, relentless journey of building something meaningful. As an introvert who believes in adding value, not noise, every 40-minute conversation is built to respect your time, but also actually teach you something useful.

Steph 0:38

Shere, we are so lucky at TDP that a lot of people want to work with us. Apparently. Apparently, they want to work at TDP. I've had so many people say that to me, and I'm sure, well, I know that your LinkedIn DMs, etc., are blowing up with that all the time. Can I get a job here? Today we are genuinely going to give people the formula for how to get a job at TDP. I'm sure many of the things that we speak about will also align to getting a job, you know, at another similar workplace as well.

Cherie 1:08

Absolutely.

Steph 1:08

It won't just be for TDP.

Cherie 1:10

Yeah.

Steph 1:10

But what will be just for TDP is maybe those people that think they do want to work here, maybe a little bit more behind the curtain. Yeah. Like, do you actually want to work here? We're going to tell you maybe why you wouldn't want to work here.

Cherie 1:23

Yeah, exactly. We're going to unpack some really good parasocial stuff as well in today's potty app. So I'm really excited. There's so much good stuff to talk about. Yes, sure. We'll give you the recipe to get a gig at the digital picnic if you want it. But I love that you've got that disclaimer where you're like, but you might not. And maybe this episode will make a lot of people realize, huh, I've never heard of parasocial before. Maybe I need to explore like a parasocial relationship I might have with this brand or that one and so on. And I think hopefully in this episode, I'll come in with that founder humility and sort of say it's it's still a workplace and a capitalist system. Um and it is for profit, despite our head of finance sometimes going, but is it? You know, and so yeah, no workday is perfect here.

Steph 2:09

No, absolutely. I feel like I've been on both sides of this as well. I've wanted a job at TDP and I now work at TDP. So hopefully I've got a good, I guess, lens on that process as well for those who really are keen on getting a job at TDP.

Resumes That Get Read

Steph 2:23

But if you're going for a job, the first thing that you have to do is get that resume ready. So let's talk about what you would love to see in that resume coming through to your email for a job that we had going here at TDP.

Cherie 2:35

Well, I can make this really easy to begin with. Who is still putting your damn resumes into Microsoft Word? Can you please stop?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah, I can see that.

Cherie 2:43

Um it's really scary when you are fielding upwards of 150 sort of applicants and you're sort of like, whoa, uh the 1980s cold. And they would like their Word document back. So I don't know what this is gonna make me sound like. I can't even picture what this could sound like, but I have to be really honest with you, I kind of just delete. I can't read it. Just to begin with, it's not even neuroinclusive. I can't even read the font, to be so honest. Like I'm a bit of a poppins gal. But yeah, please just first and foremost put it into a PDF. Um, there's your first win. Let's wrap it up. No Microsoft word, PDFs and poppins. Absolutely PDFs. Like I say it TDP, like we're not um saving lives, we're saving PDFs. But what will save your life in hiring land is sending it in a goddamn PDF. And then from there, look, I see a lot of rhetoric on, you know, like your LinkedIns, especially from other folk within agency land, and they're expecting like um freaking billboards and you know, yeah, QR codes that link to this, that link to that, that and it's a lot of showy stuff. Now, if that's you, cool, do it. Go hard. Do not like, you know, uh, I don't want this episode to be in any way having people kind of like diluting themselves. If that's your kind of style, go for it. It's just that I've been in this industry for close to 12 years, and sometimes the more showy kind of things that have come through to us have been some of the most difficult hires I've honestly ever made. So, what was in the show was lacking in the things that were actually needed, you know. So I'm less about billboards and oh man, I've seen some creative things and like it's cute and it goes viral on TikTok and LinkedIn. But I would still have enough recruitment acumen to be able to figure out but where is the technical expertise or the X or the Y or the Z, you know, in all of this show.

Steph 4:38

So yeah, yeah. I think be creative, but also when you are applying for jobs, most of the time you're probably applying to more than one. Yeah. And if you do pour your heart and soul into something huge for every single job, you could just be really depleting your energy sources and feeling really flat if they don't land. I mean, when you say you you see this stuff on LinkedIn or TikTok of people doing these incredible applications and then they get the job, you don't often hear about the people who do those incredible applications and don't get the job. Like it's it's uh it's not a guaranteed yes. Yeah. And I think as you said, sometimes it can be quite a charming tool to use that. Yeah. Um, but then really, like what else in your application is standing out?

Cherie 5:21

Honestly, it's that. And also I think the people that receive that stuff well, to me, that there's just a bit of ego there, you know. And so I care about this episode speaking to folk who really want their dream role enough. And I just think if you land the gig because you jumped through a gazillion hoops and spent 15 hours on one freaking application, I'm a little bit worried for you. You might be working with a really gigantic ego.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah.

Cherie 5:47

You know, so look after yourself. Yeah, you shouldn't have to put yourself up in literal neon lights to get the dream gig. Like, we are all those egoless leaders, we're really realistic about you know how much time goes into each application. And I really would just be grateful for people to spend, I don't know, 15 minutes rather than just mass supply. Like, I will honestly, when we're getting more than 300 applicants for one role, I'm not gonna probably push forward the thing that's the generic thing that doesn't literally in any way, shape, or form describe why they want to work with us. Um, but at the same time, like, yeah, 15-ish minutes could be enough to honestly get a fair bit of attention from an egoless workplace like the digital picnic.

Steph 6:29

Yeah. I think there's an element of you do need to be creative. I mean, particularly if you are applying to somewhere like TDP where like a marketing agency, it'd be pretty bizarre. I mean, unless you're applying for a role that's in like a finance or something like that, then you probably don't have to be that creative. Yep. But pretty weird for me if I was applying for a role as a social media specialist, which I am, and I couldn't show that I can create social media content. Like you just have to show those skills. I think as well, we have so many people in our LinkedIn DMs. I did actually get you to do a little bit of research before this episode. Yeah. Uh, how many people are currently in our LinkedIn DMs wanting a job or inquiring about a role?

Cherie 7:11

Yep. So when you asked me to do this, I hit up my beautiful EA who does help in the DMs, and we still can't keep up, Steph.

Steph 7:18

You did honestly that work, did you?

Cherie 7:21

Yeah. So ego. Honestly, Danny and I, we're trying our little hearts out in my LinkedIn DMs, and we just can't keep up with all the sales. Bury's pitching something that we literally don't need.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Yeah.

Cherie 7:32

But when we looked as far as we could just in the last fortnight, we have 77 applications for a role that we're not advertising for at the moment. Yeah. Just hi, I love everything about the digital

The LinkedIn Dm Pitch

Cherie 7:45

picnic. I want in. This is my experience. If you see a fit, you know, hit me up, like, let me know when that role is live. So 77. It's pretty wild.

Steph 7:56

And what do you think about those 77? Like, do you love that people are reaching out like that? What would you love to see if it is gonna slide into the LinkedIn DMs?

Cherie 8:04

Yeah, that's a really good question. I feel sometimes overwhelmed, to be really honest. Sometimes I'm overwhelmed because there are these incredible humans that you scope out their LinkedIn profile and you're like, oh, if only I had the cash flow to support X, Y, and Z. So that's the only feelings of overwhelm. I feel I just see so many freaking literal. I know we're not allowed to use the word unicorn, but it's feeling very unicorn-y out there. And yeah, that's that's the overwhelming piece. I guess if there was an underwhelm piece, there are others where I'm like, I don't understand how you would fit here just in terms of your experience. Like, it just doesn't even remotely match up to what the digital picnic does. Yeah, they're the ones where I'm like, you just want to seemingly, in your own words, I'm not you know me, Steph. Like, I'm I'm so humbled, like humble with this kind of stuff where I'm like, what? Why? You know, but they haven't even explained how their role in big corporate XYZ, and how do I bring that across to an indie agency? I don't even understand what your freaking title is. Yeah. In our world, what does this even mean?

Steph 9:09

Yeah, like what's your pitch kind of thing? Like, that's great for you to reach out, but what would you actually do in this company, especially if they are genuinely just pitching when there's no roles out there? It's kind of on the person to go, hey, you need to tell us how you see this working. Because we've got 77 LinkedIn DMs. Yeah, we're not going to read every single one and figure out how everyone every single person would work in our business. You tell us. Yes. And then impress us so much so that we go, hey, we might need to chat to this person, or yeah, hey, we can't chat to you right now. We don't have the availability or the cash or whatever. Yeah. But maybe we will in six months. And now you're on our radar. So the best pitch that you can possibly give of, hey, this is how I see me fitting into your workplace, yeah, the better.

Cherie 9:51

It's so true, Steph. And one thing as well, and I'm not sure like if we've got any HR or recruitment folk um dialing into this particular episode, maybe this is not great advice that I'm giving here, but I have a really literal autistic brain. I'm really just solutions-oriented and super honest, you know. So I hit a lot of people back and I'm like, okay, great. Like, there's obviously no role being advertised at the moment. So to begin with, I'd just like to ask you, what's your salary range? You don't even have to give me a specific number. And the reason why I ask that is I don't want to waste anyone's time saying, well, here's this role, and it's like way unders on their particular range. I mean, some folk come to us from other agencies, and even if they have the same titles as what's here, there's sometimes a 50k difference. Um, sorry to say this and sorry to flex, we're paying the more's. You know, and I'm just like, oh, our same title here, you haven't stretched into that there because you're doing a little less because you're being remunerated less, and so on, right? So I need to know a salary range. And this is an interesting one, Steph, because some people struggle with that question and can't answer it. And I'm like, just tell me so I don't waste your time or put you into something that's scoped out way too high that you're not ready for, or like whatever it is. And then um, our head of people in culture had a really interesting insight on this one. There was one person who they said there was a particular role going on on this occasion. They said, All right, that's the salary you've listed. We always include um salaries on all roles that we advertise. And they said, I sit higher than that, let's talk. And I'm like, What? Whoa, heh, heh, you know, talk about I'm like, um, no, I would have, if I had more, I would have genuinely put it on the roll, right? Yeah. So then I said to our head of people and culture, why did he do that? I don't understand. Like, I literally specifically put the top of the range, and then they went so much higher than that. And she said, Cherie, people aren't ready for your kind of honesty. When you put a salary down, they're thinking this is the starting price. They don't understand that you are so damn honest that you're like, no, this is the range. This is the whole range. Like, yeah, yeah. It was so interesting.

Steph 12:09

I think unfortunately, like the people out there that are employees listening will probably have had experiences where they feel they've been undercut before. Agreed. And so they're coming out with this kind of defense up, being like, hey, like I've got to stand for what I'm worth and hold strong.

Cherie 12:24

Yeah.

Steph 12:24

Um, I guess that probably is a difference with TDP, is that it is what it says for the very fact that that is what is available to be done. Yeah. But that isn't across all workplaces.

Cherie 12:36

So that's what I learned in that moment, Steph. That was the moment where I forgot that my honesty probably sometimes isn't the norm. So for anyone listening, if you see a role where advertising and it has a range, I promise you there isn't an extra 50k. If there was, we would wholeheartedly include that on the post. It's not, we do that to allow people to even, I just don't want people to spend 15 minutes to 60 minutes on one application that they think there are chance of probably getting more. And I'm like, it's not there, mate. No. And if it was, we would put it on the job.

Steph 13:08

And at TDP as well, we have our salary ranges available to all employees. So let's say, for example, that you did put a roll up, someone said, Hey, I want more, even if we wanted to do that, it would actually mean that everyone else who is in that same title would have to move up the bandwidth as well. So that would change the whole dynamic of the team. It would throw everything out of whack. So it is genuinely like that information is available to us. So I guess when you know that, like I do, it makes a lot of sense. What about in terms of people who just reach out and say, I just want a job here. I don't care what I do, I just want to do anything.

Cherie 13:47

Ah. All right. Welcome to the part of this podcast episode of which there'll be probably multiple themes, you know, coming through on this one. But you have just asked a question that feeds through to something parasocial. I'm a little nervous when someone says, I don't care what I'm doing so long as I'm at the digital picnic. And 10 years ago, if someone said that to me, I would have been so won over, so romance, so, oh my God, so hungry, so passionate, so dot dot dot. No, it's so parasocial. Yeah. And so that makes me nervous. And I've fallen for this before, and it's nobody's fault, not mine, not theirs either. No one's there's, I don't believe in good or bad guys. There's no good or bad themes in any of this. It's just leadership lessons that I've learned, sometimes the hard way. I can remember having someone convince me to bring them onto my team, and I think they would have been taking, in their words, something like a 20 to 40k pay cut.

Steph 14:45

Yeah. Right.

Cherie 14:46

And I just thought, I said, again, with the honesty, you know how I talked to you just then about what I have, I put on the job ad, for example, in terms of salary offering. So I just get straight into it in the interview, and I'm like, why would you want to come here for 20 to 40k less that you're earning right now? And they said, I really just want to work here and I'll do whatever it takes to get here. And I I made that mistake. I put them on the team. Guess what happens? The honeymoon's over in about three months. You miss everything you've sacrificed for, you know, uh whatever fits into 24 20 to 40k in this climate. It's a whole lot of fuel, whole lot of mortgage, um, probably interest only, no principle. I'm not sad at all about all of the recent changes. Um, and I just can't do that to a person. And, you know, after the honeymoon wraps up, um, they feel pretty shitty and resentful too. Understandably. I'm the reason they can't get to gold class now. I'm the reason that they dot dot dot insert whatever sacrifices show up in the way that they show up, right? And they'll attribute that to me. And then I'm an instant bad guy. When I just said before, I don't believe in good guys, bad guys, whatever. I'd say to everyone listening to this episode, you wanna, you want to roll at TDP, don't ever drop in. I'll do whatever. I don't care as long as I'm here. Because that just I've that's one example. I've got like oh 20 plus examples like that where I could just talk to where I've fallen for something that's heading into that parasocial place rather than someone who's genuinely, you know, gonna come here for career growth, stretch, pulling out of a comfort zone into a growth zone X, Y, Z, the list goes on. Yeah.

Steph 16:34

I think as well, you know, I've had people come, you know, to me at networking events or whatever it is, and and say literally that sentence of like, I just want to work at TDP, like how can I work at TDP? And it's very like it really like stumps me because I have no idea what to tell them because I have I don't know. Like, well, what do you do? Like, what are you good at? Uh do you like organic socials or are you in paid or true? Are you in leadership? Like it just, I'm like, cool. Tell me more. That's amazing for you. Yeah. Um, and all I the only thing I can give them when that's said is to like, well, we'll keep in our circles, but you're much more likely to be kept front of mind if we know, if we go, oh, remember that person X that we spoke to at event. I just saw they did some amazing things in organic socials. Geez, I know we're looking for this new social media, blah, blah, blah. Maybe we chat to them.

Cherie 17:26

Yeah, it's so true, honestly.

Steph 17:28

If you are going to put yourself out there and let either Sri or another member at TDP know that you want to work at TDP, that's amazing. Yeah. But like give us, give us something to remember you by. And um, that's happened a lot, by the way. That we've hired people that we know, whether through you, Sri or team, because we've met them, because we've learnt about what they do. But giving us I just want to work here isn't enough. Okay.

Cherie 17:52

Sorry, but also 77 in the last fortnight in the LinkedIn DM. So tell us more. We're not we're not rude, we're not arrogant. We all collectively cannot understand this thing of people just wanting to beat down the door. We all collectively say, huh? It's still work. There's still the shit days, there's still X, there's, you know. On that, I will say, even if that is you and you're front of, you know, your front and center, your top of mind, your tip of tongue, I'm still going to pick the best candidate for the role. It will still be a legitimate recruitment process. I will make sure that the best candidate is placed into the role. There's no um proximity bias. You can come to every single networking thing we have going on, and then we're still gonna put you through the same process as others to make sure that we haven't let bias win. Um, because, sorry, but other agencies, I look honestly at their teams, and there are some that are notorious for having the whole team look like literal um, I don't know, what's the word like doppelgangers of each other. And I'm just like, what in the homogenous? This is what happens when you only hire the people that pump you at networking events that you put on. You're gonna end up with the exact same person times 50.

Steph 19:07

Yeah.

Cherie 19:07

You know, um, so we're looking for something so much more diverse than that.

Steph 19:13

Um and marketing is so diverse, by the way. Like to have a homogenous group of people trying to market for something is a terrible, terrible idea. Thank you. We need diversity of thought. Like that is a huge part of it. 10 people in the room saying the same thing is so boring. We're never gonna get anywhere.

Cherie 19:29

It would be a race to the bottom for our clients. If everyone, if there's 10 people in the same room saying the same goddamn thing, race to the bottom for our clients. So I guess listening to this episode, folk, if you do land the job at the digital picnic, you got that because you are genuinely the best candidate.

Steph 19:45

The parasocial relationship is a really interesting one because I don't want anyone to listen to this and go, well, look, I've supported TDP for a while. I enjoy watching their your content, um, etc. Uh, does that mean that I should be a bit worried about applying? Like, no. No. You should apply. And I think any business or brand would love to have people within that business who were genuine supporters, consumers of the business, brand, etc., before entering into it because they have that knowledge behind them, they understand a bit more about the brand, they obviously relate to the values. Yeah, all of that stuff is so positive. But there is this other side of it where it does get to an unhealthy place. And I think that people feel

Parasocial Relationships

Steph 20:30

I just want this so badly because I want this connection with this brand that I've felt. And probably not recognizing just that classic thing with social media, which is that nothing is quite as it seems.

Cherie 20:45

Yes, thanks. I don't mean that in a bad way. No, um, parts of it potentially could be, you know, like you said before, even this podcast episode, we were talking about this episode because this we have we talk about this all the time. And you said something that I was like, oh my god, I've heard that quote, but I never thought of it like this. Don't meet your idols, you know. And I think it's that case of like literally, quite literally, and I've learned this for almost 12 years, uh, often in the hardest of ways, and this is why I wanted this parasocial theme to pour into this podcast. It can be the hardest lesson you learn, and it's not easy for anyone involved when someone came in with a parasocial relationship with the brand that they're applying to work with. It's not great for them, most importantly. It's also not great for the brand. So don't meet your idols because one day I'll be rolling into a one-to-one and I need to give you some really constructive feedback to help you grow. Or I'll be really what rolling into a team whip and saying, Hey team, numbers aren't great. We got to bring it, let's go, you know, and I'll have to have the harder chats, and it's not gonna feel great where you're like, What Toto, we ain't in Kansas anymore. And I'm like, it was never Kansas, we never pitched that, you know, and the content that we share online. It is all true. None of it is fake, but it's also the best of us. Yes. We're not going to say, hey, someone rolled out of the the offices the other day crying because client X dot dot dot. I'm not going to post that. Where does that belong in the content strategy on LinkedIn? Yeah. It doesn't, you know. So I guess, Steph, I've got a list now that I had to develop with my business coach and a HR professional as well. So a bit of a co-collaboration piece on helping me to avoid parasocial in the interview setting. Do you want to sort of um see what things I look for that people say?

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Yes.

Cherie 22:38

And hopefully our listeners can say, oh, I will avoid, not just us, but wherever your preferred, you know, place of work might be. Avoid saying these things because in TDP land, this is almost like an immediate no for me. So anyone with a parasocial relationship with the digital picnic, they'll end up saying things in an interview like, I just feel like I already know you all. And I'm like, no, you don't.

Steph 23:03

Yeah.

Cherie 23:04

You know our content. Yeah. You've seen the best of it. It's the best possible portrayal of this definitely beautiful workplace. But again, not sharing that someone cried over dot dot dot the other day.

Steph 23:14

Yeah.

Cherie 23:15

You know our top of funnel.

Steph 23:16

Yeah. You know what we've chosen and curated to show you.

Cherie 23:20

Yes. Yeah. Next one. I've watched your journey for years. This one's not too bad, but it already says to me, okay, you've clocked this for a long time. You've watched the evolution. This could either go really well or it could be really parasocial. Another one, this one makes me really nervous. I've always imagined myself being part of the digital picnic. Imagine is the key. Like, oh, you're already visualizing yourself in a workplace that you're 15 minutes into a job interview. Our interviews are held virtually, so you're not even within the offices, not within the workplace itself. And you've already literally moved in. Do you know what I mean? It's like you know when you fall in love with a house and it's going to auction and you've put the furniture in all the spots. Yep. That's the equivalent of this. Yeah.

Steph 24:12

Like don't count your chickens before they hatch. Yeah.

Cherie 24:15

Yeah. The other one is I cried when I saw that post. That just makes me a little bit nervous. It's yeah, for reasons that I I I'm careful on this podcast, but that one has been really dangerous for me. I'm being held to our very best top of funnel content and not what I actually need from a team. I'm glad that our topper funnel is doing what it's doing for you. Um, it's doing what top of funnel content is meant to do. It's meant to make you feel something.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Yeah.

Cherie 24:42

So thrilled for you, but I'm already super nervous at that point. Don't mention this stuff. Talk to me instead about painting a picture of how you're gonna look in the first 90 days of this role. You know, so no crying over post, please. Um is this turning people off yet? Maybe I don't know. The next one down. I know I'd fit in because I'm basically already part of the community. Yes, but you and on Instagram, 66.6,000 others. Yes, you and 1 million impressions per month on my personal LinkedIn. You're one person in a really beautiful community of humans that we have. And so that's problematic, you know, but also the fitting in, we don't look for cultural fit. I look for cultural ad. You know, so I don't want you to fit in. I want you to add. Look, Steph, like I say, and this again in my framework, like none of these are automatically bad in, you know, isolation, but collectively I've learned the really hard way that these can suggest that the person's formed a version of this business in their head that may not actually match the reality of working inside it. Do one reporting week with us, yeah, bro. As my kids would say. Yeah. You know, do one reporting week, do one scrappy season with us, one messy middle era. You know, we don't always have the best of times, you know. We need someone who can do those stretchy seasons and those scrappy seasons. We are not a corporate agency and I never will be. So folks who are gonna work well here can get scrappy. Um, and we're really honest about that in the interview. Scrappy doesn't mean overworked, doesn't mean hustle. I just mean that you're not probably going to be, honestly, probably a bit of bit of a diva about just really simple small things that we can't do in a scrap in a more scrappy than usual season. The hardest challenges I've gone up against as a founder navigating parasocial relationships with a community that does, I again, I don't know why, but really does seem to love us, is that it's an identity crisis. Like they attach their whole identity to working for the digital picnic. Yeah.

Steph 26:48

I think as well, we are a high-performing marketing agency. It's like this is a workplace where a lot needs to get done. It is scrappy, it's indie, it's all hands on deck at times, one team, one dream, like all these things. And when you come into an interview setting, and the first thing that you lead with is like, I just love you guys so much, and I love how you get to sit out on the bean bags, and I saw you got to go to the movies the other night. And I love your policy about XYZ, that is all amazing stuff, and it is all true, but what it makes us feel is scared that you're not aware of the first bit, which is the 90% of the job, which is the work, and the work is hard and it is specialist. Yeah, and if you don't lead with that and convince the people sitting in that interview room with you that you can do that bit, the rest is wasted because we know everyone's gonna enjoy going to movies. Everyone's gonna do you know what I mean? The policies are incredible. There are so many amazing things about TDP's workplace culture, but in the reality of your work week, how much time does that actually take up? Quite small.

Cherie 27:59

Culture's the reward, but performance is a requirement. I spell that out in TDP's mission, and we put the TDP mission in every job out, and sometimes I think people just don't read it. And fair enough. Yeah. When you're massive playing, no worries. But all the telltale signs are there for what we're looking for, and I'll never forget rolling into a job interview, and it was a really senior position. So I'm expecting some real acumen and maturity. Um, and when we asked the really simple question that you would be expected to be asked in every interview, it was the pretty much the one of the kickoffs, like, what's got you interested in this particular role? They actually said, I really love uh the noise-cancelling headphones. I'm looking forward to receiving them.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Wow.

Cherie 28:42

And I was like, Oh my god, uh, wow, what a disappointing response. That was it. That was it. End of. And I thought, okay, I wrapped that interview up pretty quickly. I think in that moment I could see the other person I was interviewing with, like TDP side, I could see them literally deleting questions just to wrap it up quicker.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah.

Cherie 29:00

Um, that was not the response for a senior position. And given that position and the associated salary, I just wanted to say, you can afford noise-cancelling headphones.

Steph 29:10

Yeah.

Cherie 29:10

You probably should have brought something so much more edgier, acumen-y, you know, um, in that response there. And that's the sort of thing that I'm talking about. That was where I was like, headphones.

Steph 29:22

Really? It's the same as applying for a role that doesn't actually isn't actually going to fulfill you because TDP can give as many workplace culture bits and bobs along the way as they possibly can. Headphones, what else do we do? Sensory tools.

Cherie 29:37

Oh my god, we just give so much.

Steph 29:38

We've got a lot of policies in terms of leave for various things, um, ability to work from anywhere, like so many incredible, incredible things.

Cherie 29:47

Yeah.

Steph 29:48

But if you are not satisfied with your role, it's not gonna matter.

Cherie 29:52

All the tangible things will not make it a happy person in the wrong role because parasocial something led them there.

Steph 29:58

If that was true, that that if workplace culture was able to supplement every person's ever bad feeling about working at TDP, no one would ever have left. But it's just like any other workplace, it's a workplace. And if you are not happy with your role, you will want to move on. And for people who are coming in thinking that, oh, well, I'll just be happy with some noise-cancelling headphones, guarantee you, like two months in when you're having client escalations and whatever else, you're not gonna care about your headphones.

Cherie 30:24

It won't drown out the noise from not even on the highest of volumes.

Steph 30:28

Guys, that wasn't even scripted. That's how good Shri is. So that's on the application, the resume.

Imposter Syndrome

Steph 30:36

I also do just want to touch on um imposter syndrome. Yeah. I definitely felt this when I was applying at TDP. Wow. I think that again, social media is so powerful. You can look at the team and think, wow, everyone is so talented. Um, how could I possibly make an impact? You're very easy to look at your own experience and the jobs that you've done and think, oh, I won't be able to um compete, or what could I possibly add? And I think that you really do have to drop that as best as you possibly can, even if you are faking it in that interview. Like, don't count yourself out again. TDP is just like any other workplace. And once you see behind the curtain, like that now that I have, yes, it is just like any other place where it has the same problems, the same ways that you can add value. Yeah, I think a lot of people would look at a business like TDP and just go, I could never work there. You absolutely can.

Cherie 31:34

You really can.

Steph 31:35

You can, and yeah, you'll be amazing if um you're able to put the best foot forward.

Cherie 31:40

So yeah, I agree, Steph. And I think, gosh, it hurts me to think that anyone would think that they're not if firstly, if we've shortlisted, we get over 300 applications. If you've been shortlisted, pat yourself on the freaking back, you're already winning.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Like, yeah.

Cherie 31:57

So that's how I would start this off with. Steph, you and I, we've recently come back from Sydney. You saw me hop on stage speaking to what I spoke to. But just after I got off stage, we heard from a neuroscientist who talked about the problem with imposter syndrome is all the wrong people have it.

Steph 32:12

That's right. Yeah.

Cherie 32:14

Um, and the ones who could use a little more imposter are currently leading whole countries when they really aren't qualified to. What you just shared about how you were feeling. And it's made me um, while you were talking, I was like, that makes sense of so many uh interviews that I've had where the imposter syndrome won and they just went into fawn mode in the interview, and they said, not in these exact words, but what came through is I'm not worthy. I don't even feel worthy enough for this interview, or and especially in some roles where you're literally leading team.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yep.

Cherie 32:46

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah.

Cherie 32:48

Work on that beautiful mindset of yours. I wanted you here. We shortlisted you for a reason, but now you're making me really freaking nervous because how am I going to confidently put you in front of clients? How am I confidently going to put you on team and leading new marketing little angels, legends, um, to feel confident, you know, within themselves. So fawn mode will be your worst possible sort of mode to roll into uh a TDP interview with. So just go a little bit cool runnings. Dave does this pep talk to me all the time for anything that I'm just like, ah, and it's sort of like, I see pride, I see power, I see a badass mother, you know, and you just need to give yourself a little bit of a cool runnings pep talk. And even if it's just a little bit of fake it till you make it, please, even if that feels a little dishonest in in the short term, I just need to feel your confidence. And then I'd preferably like that paired back with an actual ability to do what's being put in front of you. Don't fake it so much that you're literally not qualified for the role because this is what's never shared to LinkedIn, but you won't make it past probation. We move people on, especially in the first six months,

The Interview

Cherie 33:55

because it's with kindness in mind. Sometimes there are people who've landed here who've plethora of different reasons, but just yep, not the right person for that particular role. And we move it on and with integrity. Um, and yeah, I just wouldn't want anyone to sort of end up in that position either.

Steph 34:14

So now we're actually at the interview. Yeah. How long do they get?

Cherie 34:17

They get one hour. They get one hour. Actually, they get a 15-minute screen first, of course. Um, that's how you move through 300 plus candidates and try very hard to find the very best humans within that. If they get shortlisted from there, they move into a one-hour interview. But uh, it's a one-hour interview. The first question is like literally tell us a little bit about yourself. I've seen so many folks, I am not exaggerating here, spend 45 minutes answering that question alone, and they're not even answering the question. Um, they trauma dump for 45 minutes about their shitty workplace, where they come from, how it screwed them over. And they do that, and it's I feel I really feel for them. They look at our content, they see the psychological safety, and they think I'm safe to trauma dump in my job interview. And honestly, if it wasn't an interview and with if we were friends outside, I would have uh dinner with you and hear all about your shitty little workplace elsewhere. Yeah. But yeah, it's a one-hour interview. You've just wasted 45 minutes. We now have no ability to get through the questions we actually need to speak to. Use the hour wisely. Show us the best of yourself and also stick to the hour. Some people get so excited that they might say, like, wait to the last five minutes, and they're like, I've got this rabbit that I want to pull out of a hat. And I'm like, oh my god, my heart literally pounds. I have got someone in the Google Meets call right after you who's just as important as you are. Please honor the time in a timeline.

Steph 35:52

I think you need to respect what an interview is at the end of the day. Yeah. Show your best self, respect the people that are sitting in that interview and ask questions. Yes. Ask some really solid questions back to the employer so that they can see that you're really invested in this job. Yes. And it allows the employer to see, like, wow, they really do understand what this role will look like and how they'll fit into our culture and XYZ. So if you ever get to that point in the interview where it's like, do you have any questions for us?

Cherie 36:23

And say, no, I think you guys summed it all up. That's my worst. I just want to let you know that's the title of any horror movie for me. I'm like, oh my goodness, you just had the most exciting opportunity to let me visualize what your first 90 days looks like. Uh, the questions that you ask say a lot about how someone's gonna treat those first 90 days. Yeah. And you said, nope, you covered it all off in this interview. No, we didn't. It's one freaking hour. Not possible. It's not possible. I've been on longer dates, first dates. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Yeah.

Cherie 36:58

Um, so we didn't cover it all. Don't waste that question by telling us you're people pleasing, really. I'm looking for tryhard, I'm looking for kind genius. And when you don't have any questions, I'm seriously concerned. I wouldn't probably progress people who don't ask questions in the interview.

Steph 37:15

Cherie, you have a favorite question that you like to ask in your interviews. Can you please share it? This is a bit of a spoiler if anyone's interviewing in the future, actually.

Cherie 37:24

Write this one down. I ask it in every interview. Walk us through your favorite try hard moment.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Yep.

Cherie 37:30

There are people who've answered that so well that will stay in my memory forever, and now they're currently on our team. Um, it's the people who can say, I was in a master's for marketing and I actually failed this particular assessment twice, and I finally got it up on the third go. Resilience, try hard, hunger, passion, you know, never back down, never what. All of the things that I'm like, oh, you're gonna do so well in an agency setting. Yeah. It's the other people who've said, I'm really sorry, I struggle to answer that question because I come from insert country here. We have, there's too much privilege attached to that question. We only know how to try hard. And they're literally baffled culturally how somewhere in Australia we could say, have you ever considered not trying hard? They're like, I can't even relate to that. So there was one woman that I interviewed, and her response flawed me and humbled me. And I really loved that. And then there was another one who said, uh, okay, I can do better than that. I'm from the Philippines. I'm gonna give you a whole word. And in my language, that's called beater better. And now we roll that out at the digital picnic, and he's here and he tries hard every day. You know him. He rolls in with a gif every single day. Icon. Icon, literal icon, not a personality hire, the very definition of you know, try hard. So be creative, have a think. For those listening, we're gonna ask you what your favorite story around try hard really is. I would honestly show off there. Yeah.

Steph 39:07

I love that.

Cherie 39:08

Yeah.

If it's a No

Steph 39:09

What about when it's a no? We go through the interview process, we do it all, etc. And unfortunately, it's a no from us.

Cherie 39:18

Yeah. Okay. Like that great movie, The Castle. It's what you do with it, Dal. It's what you do with that no. Um, we've actually got multiple people on team now or have been on team in the past who hit their third go of applying at the digital picnic. Now, that's not because we're these egotistical bastards who are like, make them work. That's not it, I promise. It was just that their role went to the right candidate at that particular time. So just know that the no is not the end. It's just a no for now. Just think about how many people on my team have hit two-ish plus no's and then landed it on the third go. And again, that says everything about how much you do genuinely want to be here. Um, and maybe it will lead you to um sort of the better role that's better suited to you. So think about how you're gonna handle that no. So I can't tell you, I've lost count of how many people are so livid that they just don't even respond. Or they respond in what we sort of say is a bit of a red zone. Um, and I'm like, I okay, like fair. You're feeling red.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yeah.

Cherie 40:28

Um, that's fair, but I wouldn't have hit send on that. Yeah. Or I would have hit send on that and that just acknowledge the rejection and do something really constructive and um leadershipy, you know, with it. Because we'll see you again. Yeah. We absolutely will, you know, uh, but we won't see you again if the response is really cool or like literally just there is no response, you know. So um I think how someone handles a no says everything about who and you know what they are as a person. So do something really good and constructive with that no.

Steph 40:58

And never close off that, you know, potential opportunity for the future. You know, if you do get the no and you respond in that defensive or aggressive way, that the door's closed. Whereas if you are able to go back and say maybe you want extra feedback or maybe you um want to ask more questions, and then you go and connect with the hiring team on LinkedIn and you send them a personal message that says, thanks so much for your time. Um, I'm really keen to continue on and learn more about TDP and hopefully I see in the future. Like there's so many little things that you can do to just stay front of mind and like there's there's a role out there for you. And if it's at TDP, then you're doing the right things in order to stay in our orbit and potentially land that in the future.

Cherie 41:44

Yes.

Steph 41:45

Amazing.

We're Hiring Soon

Cherie 41:46

And Steph, I do just want to say uh you would know intimately from every weekly Monday whip that you sit in. We're scaling.

unknown 41:53

Yeah.

Cherie 41:54

Don't know if you've clocked it. We've been growing. Um, so for those listening, uh, this is a great time to listen to this episode because we are honestly growing. And I have just completed writing five to six job ads and matching job descriptions. Like, so you know, they're coming, some of them really soon. Yeah. So it's a really good time to be dialing in and thinking, hmm, how am I gonna nail that interview uh and a little bit beyond or even the little bit before with the digital picnic?

Steph 42:28

I love that. Yeah. So yeah, keep this episode handy. Maybe you'll need it in the future if you are applying for a role.

Cherie 42:35

Yeah.

Steph 42:36

And we would also love to ask our amazing audience, if you have been enjoying our episode so far in season one, go and give us a rating on Apple or Spotify. It honestly means the world to us. Cherie and I have been like cutely giggling away in Cherie's office when we go and read through the beautiful reviews. Yes. Um, which we haven't prompted before, but I um trying to think in that business acumen mindset. We'd love to ask for a review if we've got to be able to do that. Please rate us.

Cherie 43:01

We just want to know we're like your little Uber drivers, and we just want that five-star rating or less if it hasn't been, you know, sure. If it was a bumpy rider, I drove too fast. Um, let us know. But we want we want the stars, whatever they are. Can you please rate us? We would really appreciate it.

Steph 43:16

Amazing. And we will see you next week.

Cherie 43:20

Thanks for listening to the climb with Cherie Clonan and Steph Clifford. Here's to growth, grit, and bloody good stories.