The Climb with Cherie Clonan

What Makes A Great Social Media Specialist

• The Digital Picnic • Season 1 • Episode 13

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We wrap season one by breaking down what makes a truly great social media specialist. 

For business owners, we tell you how to spot the real deal when you’re hiring. 

And for marketing professionals and freelancers, we share the mindset shifts and practical tests that separate culture-led strategists from trend-chasers.

Key Takeaways: 

  • Great social media specialists are immersed in online culture, not just chronically online.
  • The best social media managers spot patterns, shifts, and emerging formats before others do.
  • Strong social media specialists are tinkerers who keep improving content after it goes live.
  • A great social media specialist balances creativity with analytics, not aesthetics alone.
  • Top social media managers focus on audience needs, not proving how clever or trendy they are.
  • The best social media content makes people feel something and earns their time and attention.
  • Business owners should hire social media specialists who can explain why content works, not just make content.
  • Exceptional social media specialists combine taste, curiosity, judgment, and community-building skills

Mentioned in this episode:

Kinso App
Empathy Canvas Map
Jony Lee 

Hosted by Cherie Clonan [@cherie_thedigitalpicnic] and co-hosted and produced by Steph Clifford [@stephssocials] 

Follow us on Instagram @theclimbpod_

Check out our agency @thedigitalpicnic > we teach digital marketing, and we can manage yours, too. 

Cherie

We're recording this episode on the beautiful, unceded lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We want to express our gratitude for being able to create this podcast on this land, and we pay our respects to their enduring culture and connection to country. We recognize that sovereignty was never ceded, always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the Climb, a podcast about the messy, brilliant, relentless journey of building something meaningful. As an introvert who believes in adding value, not noise, every 40-minute conversation is built to respect your time, but also actually teach you something useful.

Season Finale

Steph

Everybody, we have an announcement, maybe a little bit of a sad announcement, but this is our season finale.

Cherie

I know.

Steph

Sheree, can you believe this? Season one, full season, we've done it.

Cherie

But a bit more John Farnum-like. Like, you know, this ain't the last show. It's just the last episode of this season. Yeah. We are definitely coming back for season two, so much so that I had a little shoppy shop last night. No way. And uh might have decked out our new podcast studio in Inverted Comics. Oh, goodness. Um, via a little end of financial year sale that I've been waiting for.

Steph

Okay, well, that's news to me, and I'm very excited about it.

Cherie

I can't wait to show you. I'm gonna make you so proud.

Steph

I love that. Yeah, but yeah, just know that we are coming back for a season two. Being real real, I'm heading over to Europe. You are? Yeah. I'm getting a little away and getting some sunshine.

Cherie

We're all behind you on that one. Thank you.

Steph

So we'll have a little pause over July and hopefully come back sometime, August, September. Maybe we won't hold ourselves to too much of a date because life be life thing. Yes. But we have enjoyed season one so, so much and can't say thank you enough to everyone that's come on the journey. Yep. So thank you, thank you so much. And everyone that's left a review and shared it with a friend. We are honestly so grateful. This has been such a goal of TDPs for such a long time. And we bloody did the thing.

Cherie

We did the thing, uh, so much so that we even I just I can't believe it, but we've had people sponsor our first season, and we couldn't have done it without them. So, you know, thank you to everyone for getting behind our sponsors because they got behind us, and it was you who did that. I was like, Oh, we couldn't possibly, and you're like, Well, I've built the deck, and we will. And um, everyone that we went out to said yes, that's real.

Steph

Amazing.

Cherie

Yeah.

Steph

So, what do we choose as a finale episode for season one? It's pretty tough. But at the end of it, Sheree and I thought, you all probably know us from social media at the end of the day. And we sit here both saying that we're social media specialists. I mean, Cherie's also a founder. She's got another job title that she's juggling. But when it all comes down to it, that's I guess what we're here for and why um people would know TDP and us. Yeah. So we wanted to kind of break down what makes a great social media specialist for our marketing professionals or freelancers who are striving to be that, but also for our business owners who are hopefully wanting to bring a social media like manager or specialist in-house or have them as a contractor, what you should be looking for in an amazing specialist.

Cherie

Yeah, I agree. Anyone could fill that particular role that they might be hiring for, or be the person who fills that role. But we wanted to unpack what the actual anatomy of a great social media specialist is, a social media native, I want to say, in this episode, because you and I, we've got like side quest hopes for this episode, which is we want to live in a world where this industry is, you know, really respected for what it really is. And it's quite the art form to pull this off well. Anyone can do it, sure. But in this episode, we're gonna unpack what it actually looks like to go really above and beyond and clock what we've clocked throughout our careers in this industry as well.

Steph

Absolutely. And it's harder than you think because we have so often people say to us, we want socials like TDP, or how do you come up with your ideas, or how do you do this or that? This is a great episode to listen to because it's a lot about the mindset of a great social media specialist. Yeah, and it's the trends will come and go, but these things are evergreen. So yeah, let's get into it.

Cherie

Yeah, let's do it.

Culture Watching

Steph

Okay, so number one that we were discussing when we were thinking, all right, what is the anatomy of this incredible specialist? Is that they're not just on social media, they actually are sitting within culture.

Cherie

Oh, yeah, they're immersed. Yeah, they're in it. Like people, I Steph, if I had a dollar for every person who's interviewed at the digital picnic, and when we've said, you know, why, what is it about this industry that you love, or something in that space, some sort of question around that, and they all kind of make the lighthearted joke that they're chronically online. I'm like, yeah, fair, but almost an expectation. Yeah, expect that response. You know, like you aren't just chronically online, you are in online. You know, like it's just full immersion, you can't get enough of it. It feels healthy for you. You don't look at your screen time results because some people would look at that and throw shade, but others sort of say, actually, I'm really proud because I love my art so much that I'm immersing myself within the art. The scroll is not just a scroll for me, Steph. I am picking up on patterns that people are putting down that have gone on to become some of the best things we've done either for, you know, the digital picnic or our clients. And it's yeah, sure, like 85% instinct, but that instinct only happens because of this, not just chronically online, but like absolute immersion in social media. So I guess like when I was thinking about, you know, the folks who might say in the interview, yep, like catch me online, how about that? You know, I'm like, yeah, that's just scrolling and thank you for loving this industry. But if you really love it, I think it's going deeper than that. There are the kind of people who are constantly observing patterns and they can look at content in an array of different industries and pick up the pattern from that would that would be able to be applied or reapplied elsewhere. You know, they can see the pattern in it, they notice shifts in tone. They can even spot like emerging formats. You and I recently, we've got these, a really good shift that we're bringing across to our carousels. And it's just look, from the outside looking in, it's a simple tweak, but I think it's going to have a bigger impact for the better, you know. So that's that example there. Like we're looking at emerging formats and thinking, let's do this for TDP. You know, they're tracking behavioral changes, they understand what people are responding to and why, all coming down to that pattern recognition. And know that that's a word that gets thrown around with a lot of neurodivergent folk, but pattern recognition exists, you know, within us all. It's sort of like how you can predict the end of a movie. That's pattern recognition, you know, or you try to at least, you know. So yeah, they're not, these people, when they've got this nailed, it's not that they're just chronically online, they're contextually online. And there's a big difference between that, you know. So I really wanted to bring that one home. They they don't just consume content, they're spotting the culture in motion.

Steph

I think when you're like chronically online and you're just living within that space, what happens is it's actually really hard to come up with an original idea because you're only taking in what's currently already out there, or yes, of course, what's trending, but to actually have original ideas and be at the forefront, it requires more than just doom scrolling for three hours when you get home. Like, how boring. Any of us could come up with like a trend that's on TikTok. That's not that's not hard.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Steph

It's is it worthwhile us investing in that? Or what about doing something completely different or putting a spin on it? Or like it's a much bigger world that exists outside of the scroll.

Cherie

I think, and we're gonna talk to this later on in the episode, Steph, but that's why I think we have to respect this art for what it is and give people enough time to stare out the window. Like, I look at the team from Kinzo app online, they are the epitome of everything we're discussing in this episode. Like they are the ultimate brand managers where they're making their own. Um I don't even want to say trends because it's bigger than that, but they're creating whole cultural movements because I think and hope they've got enough time to stare out the window so that they can go bigger picture on making their own stuff rather than just repurposing every other trend and bringing it across and so on. And I just find them to be so inspiring and like the very definition of what we're putting down in this episode. So if they're listening, low, yeah, we love you. Yeah. So I guess like I thought, let's give a practical takeaway here, Steph. So for the folks, there's going to be two people probably dialing into this episode, whether they are marketing professionals themselves and wanting to build out the anatomy of what they hope is good social media specialization within self, um, or they're the business owner hoping to hire really well. You can kiss a lot of frogs in this industry as well. So, you know, we wanted to have people feeling really confident about what they're going to land on if that's them. So the practical takeaway here is if you are the marketer and you fall into that category, I would ask yourself, am I just scrolling or am I noticing what's changing? I guess repeating, spreading, and sticking. Sticking is a like stickiness is a big one for me. I can always pick what sticks versus what doesn't, you know? And then on the flip side, if you're the business owner that's hiring, I would ask candidates what they're seeing shift on platform right now and why.

Steph

Yeah, I think it's kind of only a flex to be chronically online if it's actually paired back with the right judgment. Yeah. And if you can't analyze and assess why something works or why it doesn't, then the chronically that's all good, but all you're doing is getting your screen time up.

Cherie

Yeah. Ah, what's the point of screen time if it doesn't actually have taste?

Steph

Yeah, exactly.

Cherie

You know, um, you could spend all the hours online and still have really shit taste. So, in a way, and this is what I wanted to bring home in this episode, you're not just hiring a social media specialist, you're hiring like a curator. You know, it is I almost feel like an art curator. I love meeting really fussy bastards in this industry, Steph.

Steph

Yeah.

Cherie

I love people who can be ruthless with what they cull. I have so much respect for someone when they're like, it's not good, do it again. Yeah. Like that just gets me so high. I love people who have just taste that highly developed that they almost slip into curator, you know, that's when they get my absolute respect. I try to clock that in interviews. So yeah, as you said, Steph, like, yeah, sure, you can flex on being chronically online, but what if it's just scrolling or even Doom scrolling? Like, it's got to be paired back with taste and judgment and curation.

Steph

Absolutely.

Cherie

Yeah.

Steph

All right. The next one is that the best social media specialists are tinkerers.

The Tinkerer Mindset

Steph

Now you wrote this, Sheree, the tinkerers.

Cherie

Love a tinkerer.

Steph

Tell me, what does tinkerer mean to you?

Cherie

Yeah, I think maybe it's what I just touched on before, where, in fact, as I sort of talk through this stuff, I think you're gonna see me in this, which is gonna sound arrogant. I don't mean to put myself down here, but I think you've probably clocked by now. We've worked together for nearly two years, and you know I'm almost never satisfied with anything that goes live. Because that's the whole point. We're not meant to be. We are meant to have that tinkerer spirit where we always feel like we could have done better. And I heard you say something recently, and I just thought, oh wow, I've like totally found my people. I probably should have shared this with you afterwards. But you were teaching on video marketing and strategy, and you actually mentioned something similar where you're like, sometimes there's almost no video that's ever gone live where I don't think I could have probably even done better on the next edit or something like that. Definitely, yeah. That's the tinkerer spirit that I'm talking to. Like, we're never satisfied. Um, and that's the whole point. So you've got to have that tinkerer spirit and yeah, be really hard to please, you know, within self. Yeah. Um, and forgiving around.

Steph

It's like the creator's curse, isn't it? That you can make something and then you're obviously going to be critical of your own work. And I definitely feel that about videos that you could sit there and tinker for days, weeks, months, years, and you could probably still always improve it. Yeah. But I guess one of the strengths also of a great social media specialist is when to know when you're done tinkering. That's also a great line to know because you could sit there for days and years and that's a good shout, Steph.

Cherie

Some people could stay in the tinkerer's cave for the remainder of their days and never actually get anything live. Then you'll never know how brilliant you could have been as a social media specialist because nothing goes bloody live. Yeah. You know, I tinker a lot, but I also know when to rein it in.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Cherie

Um, you know, so would recommend that to all just get a little bit by Olivia Dean yourself and rein it in.

Steph

But if we are tinkering, these are the things that you are thinking about when you're looking at a piece of content or something.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Steph

Is could the hook be sharper? Yes. Could the visuals stop the scroll harder?

Speaker 1

Yes.

Steph

Could this caption say the same thing better? Could this idea travel further?

Cherie

Yep.

Steph

Could this post be more useful, more specific, or more resonant?

Cherie

Yeah. All of the above, and that's why it's sometimes hard to live in my head.

Steph

Welcome to my brain.

Cherie

Welcome to my tortured artist um, you know, brain. Uh, but I'm always thinking that on every post. What brings me undone? I think you're you sometimes think you could have done more with video. For me, it's always the caption. I'm like, I have to just have more time. You know? Um, and I don't ever like to take like a chat GPT, especially shortcut. Sometimes when I'm busy, I have. I'll never let it write in full. I'll just let it be the start. I'll always round it out. It'll always honestly be finesse to be TDP. But when I've done that, I just don't feel as proud. It upsets me as an artist to have something go live that could have been so much better with the wordsmithing. And I've got the wordsmithing ability. I just didn't sometimes always have the time, you know. So that's a hard one to land on. You, if you're a tinkerer, you're the sort of person who can't just settle, you can't. You you know, that'll do, just isn't even in your vocabulary, you know. Um, but sometimes that'll have to do, has to feature too.

Steph

Yes, yes. Yeah, so saying like done is better than perfect. Yep, a hundred percent to an extent, it needs to be done very well. Yeah, it has to be done to you know, a hundred percent degree.

Cherie

Changes from industry to industry. I've launched one of the most incredible iconic fashion labels online. Um, that's still some of my proudest work to date, to be really honest. And that person had me in a really big tinkering cave because fashion, yeah, um, it's got to be kind of perfect, unfortunately, you know. So thankfully that person understood the art and allowed me to hang out in the cave a lot longer. So I had more time. So you've just got to kind of read the room on what industry you're in. Um, not every industry will have you in a cave, um, hibernating, you know, bear style or something, like that particular fashion label, you know, kind of allowed me to do. But yeah, I would say the good social specialists, they might post the content. Well done, proud of you, you hit schedule. That's a good thing. But I think the great ones keep improving something in their head long after it's gone. That's normal. Maybe if this is you and you're feeling sort of called in, and maybe some of you are foiling like maybe feeling called out or up, you know, in this moment. I've got a little tinkerers test for the folks listening in. Love. Do you want to hear it? Yes, please. Okay, so I would probably build a habit of what I call post-morteming your own work. So look at something after it's gone live, and if it's gone from, you know, that'll do not being enough to that'll have to do. These are the kind of questions I ask in a post-mortem style, which is what worked, what didn't, what almost worked, and what would I change if I had to make this again tomorrow? That's the big one, that last one for me. So, you know, before posting anything, I also ask, what's the first thing I'd improve if I had 10 more minutes? That's a big one. I bet that applies to you in video, right? Definitely, yeah. What would make this more specific is a big one. Uh, what would make this more scrollstopping? I think every social specialist has to ask that. I think of people on my team, and um, and Nadine springs straight to my mind here. She just nails the tinkerer's spirit, especially with that one. What would make this more useful? And what would make this more emotionally sticky uh is a big one. So if you can answer anything like that well, you've gone above and beyond and you're falling into that above and beyond camp for yeah, the anatomy of a good social media specialist.

Steph

I think the other thing when you're working in a creative space is you can't expect your brain to be creative 100% of the time. Yes. Sometimes when I'm creating content, I'll be looking at it and I will come up with an awful hook. Yep. Yep. And I'll say, I'm gonna step away from that today. Do you know what I mean? So true steps. Because there is absolutely no point wasting your time tinkering if you are not in the right headspace.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Steph

And if hopefully you're a little bit ahead in your content schedule and you can put that post away and you can come back to it tomorrow or even a couple hours later with fresh eyes and try again. Because if you're trying to constantly churn out content in a not so creative mindset, you'll constantly find yourself sitting in these spaces thinking, hmm, I'm not really happy with that, but I'll just get it out. I'll turn to Chat GPT, I'll do this, I'll do that. Yes. Like at that point, you are really wasting your time.

Cherie

You really are, and it's okay to you'll always have something else you can pick up that might make more sense on that particular day or in that moment. I think my strengths as a social media specialist are copywriting. I love words, but um, sometimes I have hard days and I'm angry. I would never put pen to paper on a day like that. It we TTV would sound so beastly. I just I like I literally couldn't and wouldn't do it. So I'll just step away. Or, you know, um yeah, it's just anything like that. It's just knowing when to park something for another day.

Steph

I think my best advice if you aren't able to be in that creative mindset in the time for whatever reason is to then turn to your analytical brain and like start to work on the albums that you can, which is like looking at your stats. Yes. Like, did you get some saves, some shares? Um figuring out like why your posts have worked. Maybe you could look at like your last week of posts and have a look. Why did these work? Was it anything to do with like the timing of it all? What made it feel native to the platform or and your audience?

Speaker 1

Yep.

Steph

Start thinking in those ways that don't require that super creative mindset because sometimes it's just not ticking and when it's not, don't put pressure on yourself to have to churn out something.

Cherie

I'm so glad you said that, Steph, because on the days where I'm not feeling it creatively, the analytics is exactly where I head to. That's exactly what I meant when I said I'm not feeling it here. Where am I gonna go? It's usually opening up GA4 or looking at the last monthly report and just brainstorming on that, or you know, anything like that. And that's why I get sad. There's like this TikTok trend that's circulated for a while now where it's like, which kind of, and I don't even like the word marketing girly to be oh, I'm so sick of that expression, to be so honest. But that's another podcast for another day. It sort of says to people, well, which one are you? Are you the pretty little bows and whatever's it does these emojis?

Steph

Nails and the sparkle.

Cherie

That's it, thank you. Or are you the analytical one? And I'm like, uh,

Analytics Meets Creativity

Cherie

if you want to be exactly what we're putting down in this episode, you're gonna need to get around being both. I'm not asking for unicorns, but don't restrict yourself to just a sleigh nail emoji. We are so much more than that. And you would keep yourself in one tiny box within industry if you were just about the ribbon emoji and the nail, sleigh, sparkle, whatever. You've kind of got to get out to all of them. I I like diving into the analytics when the creative stuff ain't happening.

Steph

It's not like aesthetic, aesthetics sits on one side and graphs sits on the other. It's like they sit together.

Cherie

It's a Venn diagram.

Steph

It's a Venn diagram. They cross over and they feed a lot of information into the other one. And anyone who's been in any social media workshop from us would know that it's not just about, oh great, we went viral. In fact, I often teach how going viral can sometimes have negative impacts. There's so much uh more in-depth in the insights that inform what you do in the future, especially when we're talking about Mofu and Bofu, because they ain't about the aesthetics.

Cherie

Top, middle, bottom of funnel.

Steph

If you want to nail all parts of the funnel, you're gonna need to understand uh middle and bottom will humble a unicorn.

Cherie

Like absolutely.

Steph

The nail queen will not like um middle and bottom.

Cherie

No, not at all. They like to play in the top, and that doesn't keep businesses in business, you know. So I remember once upon a time, Steph, like I might have been being introduced to speak on a keynote stage, whatever, and it was weird. It was the weirdest introduction I've ever heard for myself ever. And they had just wrapped up someone who was speaking to in-depth data analytics of you know, marketing in general, and they were throwing over to me, and I think I was talking to stuff within the top of funnel. And so they said, now we'd like to do we'd like to introduce Cherie. Cherie does the things you don't have to think about. Oh my god. I just I'll never forget that intro because I just thought Well, how could you True. True. Um, I just thought, did you just reduce me to the ribbon emoji and the nail slash sleigh slash sparkle emoji? Like, I do do the things that you have to think deeply about, even within the nails and the stars and the sparkles. It's just that you brought me here to speak about the top of funnel. Yeah. So it's a bit of sparkle for an hour. Yeah. You know, but I just was like, wow, that's wild scenes that anyone would describe even that, the ribbon emoji and so on, as um just something you don't have to think about. I have to say, in that space, in the top of funnel and anything in that camp within marketing, you never you never stop bloody thinking. When you have a shower, you're still thinking of the next thing. You'd you walk your dog, you're thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Steph

So and good luck trying to enjoy social media.

Cherie

Absolutely.

Steph

Because you'll be saving things for your clients or whatever it is to think. That's a good idea for so-and-so. That's a good idea for them.

Cherie

Oh, our departmental lead in social media here. I set up this saved folder on Instagram for a really big deal client that we've just landed. And obviously, we want to like nail this because we're specialists. Yeah. And so I set up this saved folder, and it was like nearly 11 o'clock at night, but I just saw this really great content that was from a whole different industry. But I was like, we could do dot dot dot. Yeah, and take on this. Yeah. That's it. So because it was a saved folder that was shared with this person, I didn't realize that they get a notification for everything that I was saving.

Steph

Oh no.

Cherie

Hi, it's 11 p.m. Um, here have this inspiration. Pretty excited. Yeah, Gal is excited. Oh man, that was such a humble apology the next day. She was like, Yeah, I saw the midnight notifications. I was like, What? I'm like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I think I said something like my husband works in WorkCover, here is his email. Um, feel free to put that claim. Please put in the claim I deserve it.

unknown

Yeah.

Audience Obsession Over Ego

Steph

All right, moving on to our next one is that above and beyond social media, people are actually obsessed with the audience. Yeah. And they're not worried about ego.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Cherie

So it's they're focused on team-based wins. And I'm not talking even if it isn't a team. They're just here for a collective win rather than an individual win. They are the best social media specialists that I've, you know, honestly worked with. It's not about them, um, it's about a collective, you know. So I would say probably a weaker specialist, they're probably trying to prove things like how clever they are, how funny they are, how trendy they are, or how much they know. That's not really the win or the flex that folks would think it is. When it becomes about them, it's lost something. And I can remember way back long, long time ago, but you know, we had someone who's probably more of an individual once upon a time in social media land here at the digital picnic. And what I noticed about them, and it I it wasn't even worth raising because it would look too nitpicky for me. Maybe I should have, but I just didn't. I felt like it was too nitpicky. But what I noticed is whenever any content went live, they would smash that content with engagement if it was something related to them. But never for anyone else. That's funny. That's not cool. Yeah, you know, and what I've noticed these days is we've got a collective going on here at TDP now. We've got a whole team of team, not individuals. And they get around each other more than they get around themselves. Yeah. You know, so that's just a small thing. I just wanted to um share this one. If you're the social media specialist, just remember it's it's team, it's collective. Don't just be there for you because you might not realize it's even happening. You don't, I I genuinely believe that person didn't even know how individual they were coming across as. But yeah, if it's only ever something related to them, it's just, it's not a good look. It makes it makes that brand feel like, oh, okay, uh, well, here, this is your show. So, you know, here's the stage. Not a good look. So a stronger one, they're more obsessed with what the audience needs. And I would say what the audience feels. Like, and if this is something you really struggle with, I would recommend going to Google and downloading it's free, but an empathy canvas map, because that literally takes you, you know, through a specific flow of what the audience just needs and even feels. Um, so these unicorn specialists, they have this down pat. They don't often even need that empathy canvas map, you know. But outside of that, it's like they can pick up on what the audience notices as well, Steph. And I guess also what the audience is sick of. And this happened to me oh, maybe two months ago, where it was really funny. I had a piece of content go live on my personal brand at the same time as a piece of content went live on TDP's brand. So both sort of 6 p.m. peak time shares. The one on our overall brand absolutely flopped, but the post on my personal brand just literally popped off. Same pillar, founder content, just shared across both. The reason why the one flopped on the overall brand was it was too Debbie Downer.

Speaker 1

Yeah, right.

Cherie

No one needs this right now. The RBA has just increased its rates for the 110 billionth time. You know, we've got budget chats coming through, X, Y, Z. No one needed a Debbie Downer post. And it wasn't super Debbie Down. I've sort of I don't really do much Debbie Down these days, you know, but it was just like a keeping it real thing that just didn't land. Yeah. And I I noticed that and I'm like, I'm gonna hold off on this for the next six months minimum, you know, because what popped off was it was a celebratory post on my personal brand. And people were just getting around it. They needed to feel something good. Yeah. So a really good specialist can pick up on what an audience is sick of. They don't take it personally, nothing personal in it. Um, it's just a good read of the room, you know. So um then from there, I think the real specialist can figure out what people are going to stop for, you know, stay for, save, uh, share, or act on. Um, so that's the real unicorn y stuff. So I think those really at those those absolute diamonds, and I just I I guess I looked to the right as I was sharing this because I'm looking out at our officers as I speak, and I'm picturing the team that I can speak about when I'm saying this. But, you know, these people, they're not performing for themselves ever. Um, it's not about that. They're building for the person on the other side of the screen. That's the differentiation. It's never for self, it's the person on the other side of the screen. And I love that. So I guess if folks are craving like a little practical thing here, what could you do? I would say before publishing, why don't you ask the following questions? And that would be why would this matter to the audience? What are they getting from this? And what makes this worth their time? When you can honor someone's time, you've absolutely nailed it.

Hiring Signals

Steph

All right. So if that's the anatomy of a social media specialist, now thinking about our business owners who are listening, yeah, I guess how do they know that they're hiring that specialist? They've got those correct signals, and they're not just going for the sparkly nail emoji.

Cherie

Um yeah, because that's the thing. Like, and I've got the lived experience of this. A lot of people can call like they can put a lot of exciting things down in an interview. But there's a difference between sparkle and signal. And I know this because I'm trying so hard to build out a social media specialist team of everything that I would wish upon every founder out there because we've got a portfolio full of founder-led businesses, or you know, um, so on and so forth. So we need the right people on that activity. And so I would say to the business owners listening, you want to look for the people who genuinely, genuinely love the internet, like to an almost obsessive point. I can remember again, way, way back where we brought someone into our business to teach on strategy who hated online. They were never uh dishonest about that. And I thought, yeah, I think it can work because you still had a really great career, but no, it just didn't. They just hated the internet, so that won't work, you know? They're not contributing to the internet at all. You have to kind of like excessively consume the internet and feel like that is a healthy thing. Uh when I consume, I feel really healthy. Yeah, you know, doing it. I'm I'm like filling my cup up with what I love most. So that's the other thing. When we're looking for signal and not sparkle, again, I think a lot of social media professionals prioritize aesthetic. And even agency side folk, you know, it's just very flashy and sparkly, you know. And I'm gonna say you might have to get around a different way of thinking, which is to get around the nerds. Yeah. So it's a bit like revenge of the nerds. Sometimes we're not always the coolest kids. We're not meant to be. We're the people who sometimes or even often were behind the curtains for the theatre kids, you know. But we were a big reason as to why the show was as good as it was. You know what I mean? And so we don't need to do the final bow at the end. We're never gonna let ego enter the chat. We don't need to. But what we will do is make sure that when you take the bow, you feel really proud, you know. So I look for the really geeky people in this industry, um, to be really honest. And I hope my team aren't listening here because they're gonna be like, uh thanks, thanks. I thought I was cool. They all are cool. That's the thing, though. The nerds are cool, you know. Um, but they're just really geeky tinkerers who never back down, never what. Yeah, you know, um, and they do really obsessively love online. So that's one thing I look for. I think these people need to be able to very well articulate, you know, why content works. Not just do monkey see, monkey do, easy peace. We could all probably admit that AI would do us out of a role if we think that monkey see, you know, monkey see monkey do is enough. It's not. You've got to understand why content works and articulate that really well. The really good ones, they ask better questions, they have really strong opinions about platforms. Um, they'd even describe some platforms as their favourite child. Yeah. And then they've probably got sworn enemies for other platforms as well, and they've got a bloody good reason why. You know, I think that they care about the audience. They've got a people I do you agree with this, Def. I don't think anyone could pull off a role in this industry and love it if they hate people.

Steph

No, you'd have to love people, and community building is a big part of that, especially in 2026. If you're a social media specialist, building community is everything.

Cherie

You gotta love people, even the shitty people, you know, and that's my career started in community management. I see a I've seen a lot of shitty people, but even two weeks ago, TDP had some paid ads campaigns running, really cold audiences that you know, these these paid ads were going out to. So this was a group of humans that were seeing our business for the first time and they'd never heard of us before. And uh we got some really interesting commentary where they were like, You're a bunch of dickheads. This workshop is too expensive. And so I said, you know, I I just um yeah, loved the shitty person and said, Yeah, but like, not really because and I fought back with facts, that's the first thing you do with a comment like that. Then I went across to his profile, which was not private on Instagram, and I noticed he was a massive Dungeons and Dragons Ned. I was like, oh hey, hey you. Um, and so I just hit back and said, Look, if this workshop was a Dungeons and Dragons, it would be a Riyadh, like R-Y-A-D. I don't know. I just pulled it out, you know, because I wanted to appeal and just remind him that I'm human and he is too. Yeah. Just the same way you can go all in on Dungeons and Dragons, so can we with what we do, you know? Um, and I think it got, I think I've slightly maybe won him over. So you've got to love, you know, people. And I guess just making sure that the specialist you're about to bring into the business isn't just there to add to their portfolio with a shiny kind of shiny prospect. It's it's it can't be that. That will not see you through a honeymoon period or even slightly longer. It just couldn't. So they've got to be doing it for all of the reasons that we've mentioned in today's episode and none of the, oh, I want this brand on my portfolio. It never ends well, you know. So there's some warning signs with that. So I think the fake unicorns, I hate using the word unicorns, so apologies to anyone who's listening. I probably should have come up with a better word here, but just I guess the the fakes and the cowboys here, what I look out for is that these folks, they're really trend heavy, but they're insight light. So heaviness on the trend, but no insights. So cool. Are we just gonna seriously follow the internet around with the next trend-based something? How boring. They've got lots of, yeah, I love social media, but no depth. Um, that's just that's a bit of a warning, you know, warning sign for me. Um, they're all aesthetic, no analysis, but we've talked about that. And there's no examples of iteration. That's a big one for me. Um, because that leads to something bigger, which is there's no evidence of curiosity. People who nail this industry really well, they're some of the most curious human beings you'll ever meet. Um, and I'm just obsessed with people in this industry because of that, actually, you know. So yeah, you just you don't want to hire someone who just makes content. You want to hire someone who can make sense of why that content works. Uh, that's when your business will really stand out. Yep.

Steph

I wonder if you'd agree with me here.

Sustainable Work

Steph

I always think about like why I enjoy making content. And for me, it's I love making the audience feel something.

unknown

Yes.

Steph

And I know that that's not necessarily possible across every post. Like if we're doing a bottom-of-funnel workshops online, I'm not expecting the audience to have this heartfelt, gorgeous moment, right? But it's something that I love about working at TDP is that we do have this incredible audience and the ability to make them feel these really strong emotions. Like I used to work in wedding videography, so strong emotions is like my bread and butter. Yep. And I love that. And that's why I'm able to just keep creating content because a month goes by, another month, another month. Yeah, this is gonna be sustainable for someone, like they've got to have a passion like that or a feeling. I think if people are worried about aesthetics and just getting that great big brand that they want, as you said, for their portfolio, yeah. At some point, like they're gonna run themselves into a rut because absolutely the core reason they're doing it. Like, do they even enjoy this? Yeah. Or is it just for ticking them off?

Cherie

Who would ever want to be a tick box marketer, you know? Yeah.

Steph

And the the feed might look incredible.

Cherie

Yeah. That's great. But it doesn't feel like anything, does it? That's right. And who cares? And no one can remember. Like, Steph, we did this test recently at our big event. Like, we we host this event once per year called the Comeback Conference. And I guess, I don't know, on the second day we might have said, uh, raise your hand if you can remember a specific piece of content that TDP shared that made you feel something. Some of these people could remember pieces of content from four, five, six years ago.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Cherie

That's wild. Yeah. It's wild scenes, but it's because of what you've just shared there. Yeah. You, I guess we are a bunch of humans who know how to design content that makes people feel something. Yeah. You know, so yeah.

Steph

Love that. And what a cool thing as a social media specialist to be able to make people feel something. Yeah, exactly. I love that.

Cherie

I think if we could round out today's episode, it's sort of got us or you've got to bring home the fact that the best of the best within this industry, they're not just online, they're paying attention online, you know, they've got this incredible pattern recognition and they can do really what almost feels like super powery things with that. Would you agree?

Steph

Absolutely.

Cherie

Yeah.

Steph

I think even just like scrolling through a feed like TDP's, it does look effortless. And it's like, oh, that was an easy idea to come up with, or whatever.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Steph

But that's often not the case. There's so much that goes into it. I mean, even just the fact that Shri and I are sitting here having worked on TDP's um marketing for so long, and now we're thinking of potentially adding more to that. Like that's this thing can get bigger and bigger. And I think, yeah, thinking it's just a couple of social media posts is yeah, probably, I don't know, offensive.

Cherie

Yeah, no, it's you're spot on. Like, I I always use this one person as an example, but there's this woman that I love whose name is Joni, um, Joni Lee from New Zealand. And she was the social media manager for an agency called The Attention Seeker, but I think she even might have run the content for that founder's personal brand, Stanley Henry. Man, I was obsessed with that content because of her. Yes. And I don't want to sound greedy, but that's what I want for TDP if we go down that route. I want someone who would immerse themselves in all of this and get a real kick from all of that. I guess my only fear is that now, as of only just as we're recording, I think it might have been two or three days ago, Joni did speak about the associated burnout with letting that consume. And that made me feel that was an uncomfortable watch for that video because I just wanted to huggo through the screen. And I just hope that people who do do that full immersion thing have things keeping them healthy outside of it's it's just a job, you know? Oh you've got to, yeah.

Steph

Yeah, and all it takes is speaking to someone who is working in a job that is consuming. Is consuming and life-saving or life saving, you know, society building, and yeah, like our teachers, our nurses, our doctors, our frontline, etc. etc. 100%. Chat to them, and you'll feel much better about your job, no doubt.

Cherie

But like you feel almost embarrassed where you're like, oh, I just had a really day, uh, you know, it was a bit of a day, got 32 likes on this thing that I spent hours working on, and they're like, I had to defibrillate someone today, and you're like, yep, um, I will just stop talking. I'm gonna opt up.

Steph

Yeah, this is me constantly telling my partner who's a teacher or my mum who's a nurse, and I'm like, don't worry. Yeah, it's really not important, it's not that deep, you know.

Cherie

But I guess like seeing that video from Joni made me think, I want what she gave, but I don't want what resulted because of that. So when it's our turn to go down this path, I do want and readily accept someone fully immersing themselves in so long as they stay healthy with it. And I just want to hope that I'll know what the warning signs are that I just wouldn't want to do that to a person. And I hope I can catch any warning flags if that is happening to them. Um, I would hope that I'd be able to read, you know, their face really well. So yeah.

Steph

Absolutely. I think any great social media specialist is such an incredible ambassador of that brand. Yeah. And if business owners are listening, like that's what you are striving for, is someone who is incredibly, you know, for us it's like incredibly TDP. We want that person to be a brand ambassador and be able to speak on our behalf and you know, understand what we're speaking about and be able to write copy. Yeah, like there's so many elements.

Cherie

Yep, that's bloody hard to find. It's bloody hard to find, you know. So yeah, uh, if you're listening and, you know, you've thought about what the anatomy of a great specialist is, and then you've heard it's right at the end drop that we could in

Thank you

Cherie

the future be, you know, loading a particular roll up. I hope this podcast episode really helps. But also for the business owners, I hope this helps you see, yeah, those standout like needle in a haystack moments.

Steph

I love that. Yeah. Sheree, I'm like a little bit of emotional. I don't know. Our season finale. I we've done our thank yous at the top, so I don't want to repeat it, but what an incredible season one. Thanks everyone so, so much.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Steph

We are honestly, like once we stop hitting recorder, we've got a meeting together, Shree, and we're chatting season two, so we are.

Cherie

And I've got the furniture fit out.

Steph

There's deliveries on the way. Yep. Things are happening, so um, leave it with us. But yeah, while we're on a hiatus, we we would love for you to you know keep sharing those episodes. We we want to build this community. What about the climb? Are we gonna call ourselves like the climbers? Climbers. Let's watch on that.

Speaker 1

No, seriously. I'm here for it.

Steph

All right, so we will leave you here. Thank you so much, and we will see you in season two.

Cherie

See you in season two. Thanks for listening to the climb with Cherie Clonan and Steph Clifford. Here's to growth, grit, and bloody good stories.