Sense & Sensibility Chapter 16

While Marianne continues to pine for Willoughby, Edward appears unannounced to confuse Elinor's feelings

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Frances:  Kia ora, welcome to the amateur austinite. i'm frances duncan, author, austinite, and life coach. my cohost is rachel pilois, book buyer, austinite, and all around nerd. hi. not sure why i'm doing the arm movements.

Rachel:  we're just we're just grooving. it's a groovy chapter 16.

Frances:  chapter 16. mary anne's still in the doldrums, then edward appears out of fucking nowhere.

Rachel:  it's honestly just reminiscent of the fairy godmother coming to save you

Frances:  it's just wild. it's another week. you know how there was a week between colonel brandon leaving and then willoughby leaving? it's been another week since willoughby left and then edward appears.

Rachel:  are they timing this? every wednesday, something must occur.

Frances:  it's really clear from the text that mary anne believes that what she's doing is the proper way to behave, that indulging her feelings is correct. she would be ashamed if her family thought she was sleeping well. like, what? the feelings which made such composure a disgrace left her in no danger of incurring it. like, mhmm. she's gonna have no composure. don't worry about it. you're going wild. and the word sensibility is used.

Rachel:  she's acting in the appropriate way of, obviously, if i do this, everyone's gonna be able to tell how, heartbroken and devastated i am, the depth of my feelings well, actually, it just kinda shows how young you are to me.

Frances:  it's an indulgence of feeling, and the grief is nourished. austin makes it clear that mary anne's seeking this out intentionally to really get into the depths of it. but this violence of affliction, such a beautiful term, can't be supported forever. you can't stay at the highs of distress for too long. even when you're stressed, it goes down to a low level that's constant. it's still there, but

Rachel:  it's just not so high. yeah. this kinda shows that, marion is kinda selfish emotionally because her mother is also, obviously devastated for her daughter, but she really liked willoughby. she's, like, probably questioning her judge and his character or his intentions. well, eleanor always always always doubted his intentions. but, the whole family is also feeling his leaving. but marianne is just so focused on her own overwhelming sense of grief or the motion of grief that she thinks she needs to have that she's, not even paying attention to, the other people's emotional needs around her at all. like, the sleep. you guys can't get in a sleep? sorry. do you know how bad things are for people when they're not sleeping properly? i do. it sucks.

Frances:  and this is the difference between her and eleanor that eleanor maintains her feelings internally so as not to distress the people around her, to minimize it for them. but eleanor's asking her mother to talk to mary anne, and she says she used to be all on reserve to you. so it seems that mary anne is actually closer to her mother. we have this idea that mary anne and eleanor are quite close, but it sounds like actually eleanor was closer to potentially her father and mary anne is closer to their mother. but this is kind of a bit where missus dashwood falls down as a mother. she doesn't wanna ask in case they're not engaged, and it would upset mary anne. i would never deserve her confidence if i did that. i'm not gonna attempt to force the confidence of anyone of a child, much less. this is literally how children get into danger. this is a child. this is your child. this is the one you should be asking, missus dashwood.

Rachel:  i think you're right when you say that mary anne is close to her mother and eleanor was close to her father because they're so different that it almost feels like they've got different upbringings. and if eleanor spent more time with her father, then she's probably more like him. in which case, eleanor's almost become the father of the family.

Frances:  she has. eleanor's the dad.

Rachel:  yeah. so of course, eleanor is the one who's questioning the intentions of this young man don't let her be foolish. get confirmation. were they engaged or not? because if they are engaged and he's left, maybe she's going through all this grief, but he'll be coming back because they're engaged. and she's just being silly yes. it's an open ended parting but he's probably coming back or you can organize going to see him or something. but if they weren't engaged, then it's kind of like, this is a bit whack. you guys shouldn't have been doing this. please stop crying because you weren't engaged.

Frances:  and you're drawing a lot more attention. she's acting like a widow. i just finished watching season two of bridgerton. i should say rewatching. the similar sort of dynamic happens with the eldest daughter. so kate, the eldest sharma child, when their father dies, she takes on the father's role. in the dashwood family, when the father dies, eleanor takes on the father's role because their mothers weren't able to do it. yeah. they were too caught up in their grief, and there was a vacuum. somebody needed to do it. whereas you look at the featheringtons in bridgerton, lady featherington got that masculine energy. she can manage shit.

Rachel:  she was already being mother and father, lord featherington was just going about and gambling. lord featherington was a willoughby. he wasn't paying attention to the needs of the people around him. he was gambling and thinking about money and then he fucked everything up. and he just kind of, was like, oh, well, i'll make even more bad decisions.

Frances:  missus dashwood wants to explain away willoughby's behavior. she can find explanations wherever she wants them. they're expecting to see letters between willoughby and mary ann, which would indicate that they're engaged because you do not write to somebody unless you're engaged. but missus dashwood says, sir john gets our letters if this needs to be a private engagement, they couldn't maintain it because sir john might see it. yeah. but what's the difference if sir john already considers them engaged?

Rachel:  if sir john thinks they're engaged, then there's no problem. also, why could it not be addressed to like, missus dashwood. yeah. if willoughby wrote and addresses missus dashwood, it got given to her, but then he actually wrote in the opening lines, like, my apologies for the ruse of using your name, missus dashwood, but this letter is actually for mary anne, or if he included a letter for mary anne inside the letter to missus dashwood. do you know?

Frances:  but then missus dashwood would also know about the letter, and they haven't officially told her they're engaged.

Rachel:  but she already is believing they are.

Frances:  yeah. there's that. in northanger abbey, when catherine leaves northanger, eleanor asks her, different eleanor guys, to write to her under guise of writing to her maid. mhmm. she can't hear from catherine, but she's like, my maid can get letters. so you write to me and you address it to my maid, and then i'll be able to get it. yeah. and that's a different thing because there is a certain level of trust between servant and mistress. but it would still be inappropriate for willoughby to write to mary anne when they're not officially engaged. but it would be appropriate for him to write to missus dashwood. later in the novel, she refers to having letters from colonel brandon, so she is getting that correspondence on behalf of the family before, you know, he becomes part of the family.

Rachel:  if someone want to say, oh, i'll be on my way in your area of the country. may i pop in for a visit? they would write a letter, and they would send it to missus dashwood if there was enough time for that letter to get to them before they were on their travels.

Frances:  speaking of people popping up unannounced

Rachel:  yep. great segue. right?

Frances:  excellent segue. they finally convinced mary anne to go for a walk with them because she keeps running off to walk by herself, and eleanor disapproves of such continual seclusion. they can't get mary anne to talk. she's still all in her head, but she's there at least. and then they see a man on horseback.

Rachel:  a man on horseback?

Frances:  and it distinguishes him as he gets closer as a gentleman. so probably the way that he dressed, probably a servant with him. and mary anne's like, oh my god. it's willoughby. uh, obviously, eleanor, no. no. no. can we at least look at this? no. it's him. i know. i i knew he'd come immediately me like, he's been gone a week, and you've been so depressed. and suddenly, he's back. i'm sure it takes, like, two days to get to london. so he would have got to london, stayed there a day or two, and then come straight back. it's not. willoughby. it's edward. and mary anne is so excited to see him even though she's devastated it's not willoughby. she's showing more warmth even than eleanor. and he's like, hi, guys. um, everything's fine. i haven't at all been too far, but, um, don't ask me where i've been. yeah. yeah. he's confused, scarcely sensible of pleasure in seeing them. he is distressed when he says he's been staying with friends near plymouth.

Rachel:  it's like you've been nearby for so long and you haven't come and visited us yet. clearly, your feelings are not what we thought they were for eleanor.

Frances:  and eleanor's like, i don't know what's going on. and marianne's like, i think i hate edward now. and why is eleanor not jumping all over him? but he's kind of reverted to edward from when they first met him. yeah. he just needs time to warm up. and i think that's

Rachel:  actually a natural thing. i if you haven't seen someone for a while, sometimes that first re meeting can be a little awkward and feel a little strange there's some sort of small talk you've gotta have before you kinda get back into familiarity. they haven't been writing to each other. he doesn't know whether their circumstances has changed. maybe eleanor has met someone in the country and is actually, in love with somebody else now. he doesn't know that could be a possibility.

Frances:  that's a good point. i hadn't even considered that. yeah. it must be quite scary for him knowing that she's off somewhere and could be marrying someone else even though he knows he has no chance with her because he's gotta marry this other girl he's already engaged to, but doesn't wanna lose her.

Rachel:  well, that's the thing with eleanor as well. she also doesn't know about edward's engagement, about his situation. her situation technically hasn't changed, though. she just doesn't know what his situation was before they even met.

Frances:  but if an eligible man comes up while she's there and she's interested enough in him, it would behoove her to go with him rather than wait for edward because edward had six months with her and never made

Rachel:  a move. mhmm. and, eleanor, you know who i think you should really go for? colonel brandon.

Frances:  i know. that'd make a good match, wouldn't they

Rachel:  colonel brandon by maybelline. he's so beautiful and handsome, and we love him. he's not beautiful. he's not handsome, but he's a good man. and i love him. francis, i'm looking at i love him.

Frances:  you're allowed to love him. that's perfectly acceptable.

Rachel:  he's like mister martin from emma.

Frances:  you know what mary anne loves? dead leaves.

Rachel:  and drama. change the name of the book, dead leaves and drama.

Frances:  not everyone has your passion for dead leaves.

Rachel:  honestly, it's kind of is funny to me obviously, mary anne is, like, the most dramatic character in this book. and that's saying something because missus jennings is in this book. but she has been in seclusion and when edwards first shows up, she thinks it might be willoughby and she gets so excited and so happy, realizes it's not him, immediately turns to run away and when her sister's trying to call her back, nope. like, she just keeps going, and it's not until edward says something. is it because he's a man? is it because you're, like, in shock that it's edward? why are you being so distant from your family who is with you? but as soon as this one random guy who you haven't seen in ages, who you met for six months, who you think is kind of in love with your sister, like, what is it about him that gets you to kind of break out of your funk?

Frances:  i think for her, it's a my sister's boyfriend's here. my sister gets to be happy.

Rachel:  but i think that would make me more despair because i'd be like, well, then she finally gets to be happy. why can't i be happy? and i want my boyfriend and her boyfriend's here to visit her.

Frances:  oh, i mean, that is part of the reason that she's so upset because edward and eleanor are being civil to each other as opposed to jumping into each other's arms.

Rachel:  which is how she would respond if willoughby showed up right now. but is it how willoughby would respond?

Frances:  we'll find out. poor eleanor, though, the work always lands on her. she's endeavoring to support something like a discourse with edward, drawing questions and answers out of him like, this is work. and she's half angry, but trying to behave based on their past, not the way that he is right now. i know that we're good friends, and i know that we're kind of family. so, yep, i'll just treat him normally, i don't know what's going on. i don't get it. but she's behaving herself, and this is a huge difference between her and mary anne, that mary anne would just go into a snitch about it. but eleanor's still behaving herself. there's a whole thing about, how mary anne loves all the picturesque in that because the dead leaves. she's going on about the gorgeous hills in the valley and la la la la la. edward's like, yeah. but it's gonna be muddy in the winter. yeah. they refer to it as dirty, but what they mean is muddy.

Rachel:  he just sees a dirty lane. he's like, oh, wow. so beautiful. um, that's dirty lane. my shoes.

Frances:  he's thinking about the practicality of things. she's very like, aren't they gorgeous little hills, etcetera etcetera. and he's like, yeah. but if you walk in them, you're gonna get your shoes muddy. like, you need to think about that. i guess that's why he's a good match for eleanor. they both think about the practicalities.

Rachel:  they're both like, oh, well, we shouldn't go out in this weather because it's dangerous, and it's muddy and slippery, and we'll hurt ourselves. and Marianne's just like, wow, that rain just feels so good. i wanna frolic in the rain, and it's so beautiful. very different people. i found the line in here when i was reading it. it took me a minute to understand what it meant. when they call edward willoughby's brother elect, she began almost to feel a dislike of edward, and it ended, as every feeling must end with her, by carrying back her thoughts to willoughby, whose man has formed a contrast sufficiently striking to those of his brother elect. and my brain went i genuinely had to be like, are they related? and is this like your brother-in-law thing? it took me a long time to realize that it's actually just saying willoughby's brother-in-law as in willoughby is for marianne, that's her future husband and this is his future brother-in-law in edward who is going to marry eleanor. yep. yeah. i don't think it's a term that i've come across in anything else

Frances:  but it's showing that we're in mary anne's mind.

Rachel:  mhmm. yeah. eleanor would never think that, and she would probably tell mary anne off if mary anne said it out loud to her.

Frances:  eleanor does save herself a lot of pain and the people around her a lot of pain by not leaning into the edwards because she's not getting the feedback that she needs from him to be secure. mary anne was getting the feedback, but there was still no proposal. so

Rachel:  eleanor is practical. they had a rapport and she thought he really liked her, but he never made a move. then obviously, he's not interested. she took the silence for what it was, which was nothing more than friendship or acquaintance, it doesn't matter how much he might think to be in love with her. if he's not proposed, then it's like, well, she is doing the practical thing and almost moving on, her feelings are probably still there, but she's not going to, like, cry over him and fawn over him he obviously doesn't want to marry me. so, oh, well, that sucks, but life continues.

Frances:  yeah. that is very eleanor. and that is our discussion of chapter 16 of sense and sensibility. i've been frances duncan. this has been rachel Pilois bye. thank you for listening, and we wish you happy reading.

Rachel:  beware the willow bees.