Ep 4 The Weight of Responsibility

Summary

The conversation explores various themes including culinary preferences influenced by culture, community engagement through events, career transitions, creative expression in anime, the wonders of astronomy, and reflections on life perspectives. The speakers share personal experiences and insights on navigating challenges, embracing creativity, and understanding the cosmic scale of existence, ultimately emphasizing the importance of personal growth and connection. In this engaging conversation, the hosts explore the intricate connections between electromagnetic interactions in space, the ripple effects of personal choices, and the philosophical debates surrounding free will and destiny. They delve into the concept of entropy and its implications for existence, while also discussing the illusion of free will in the context of human behavior. The conversation wraps up with a preview of upcoming discussions on relationships and mental health.

Chapters

00:00 Culinary Preferences and Cultural Influences
01:11 Life Updates and Community Engagement
03:02 Anime Club and Creative Expression
06:03 Technology and Career Development
09:59 Astronomy and Perspective
19:57 Embracing Life's Moments and Learning from Failure
24:13 The Weight of Responsibility
27:08 Playing the Corporate Game
30:46 Stagnation and Ambition
32:33 Market Dynamics and Skill Valuation
34:45 Self-Reflection and Vulnerability
37:16 The Nature of Choices and Free Will
51:12 Entropy and the Momentum of Life
53:36 The Nature of Choices and Entropy
01:01:34 Understanding Free Will and Destiny
01:09:25 The Illusion of Free Will
01:18:04 Looking Ahead: Relationships and Mental Health
01:19:41 NEWCHAPTER

Takeaways

Culinary preferences can be deeply influenced by cultural backgrounds.
Community events foster engagement and connection among individuals.
Career transitions can lead to significant personal and professional growth.
Creative expression through mediums like anime can enhance storytelling and personal identity.
Astronomy offers a unique perspective on life and the universe.
Life's challenges can be viewed as games that require strategy and skill.
Understanding one's value in the professional market is crucial for growth.
Asking the right questions can lead to personal breakthroughs.
Embracing failures can provide valuable lessons for future success.
Connecting with nature and the cosmos can shift perspectives on life's challenges. The electromagnetic fields of planets interact in fascinating ways.
Every choice we make has a ripple effect on others.
Understanding the connections in our lives can be profound.
Entropy represents the natural decline into disorder without intervention.
Free will may be an illusion shaped by our experiences and choices.
Life's momentum can be likened to a river flowing toward a destination.
The importance of making conscious decisions to counteract entropy.
Human behavior can be predicted with enough information, but we lack that data.
The experience of making choices feels real, even if influenced by past events.
Future discussions will focus on relationships and mental health.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Kimchi, I like I like kimchi a whole lot. Yeah, Ray and that's kimchi. She does these homemade dumplings, man. Her mom showed her how to make these dumplings, dude. She does these homemade dumplings that are really good. But uh that's really it when it comes to Korean food. Because especially because she had it a whole damn life. She does it like you should have seen when we first got together. Where it's like That's enough. Hey, could you make me some blah, blah, blah, blah? She'd be like, Can you make me some collard green? Like she did, you know, she's like, she wants to eat some soul food. She's like, I I've heard stories.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Jermaine, the sensitivity is high on your on your microphone, man. It sounds like Darth Vader.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

About that.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It's better.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

How y'all doing this week, fellas?

SPEAKER_06 1:00

Good.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Good, good, good, good. Man. Blessed, blessed, man. Blessed. That's right. Feeling good, man. Look, hey. Hey, a lot of your pre-pod talk, man. I'm like, man, just save for the pod. Look.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

I guess it's a subject matter. It's a subject matter, I guess, man. Yeah, it's life being a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Save it for the pod, man. Save it for the pod. No, no, no. That's cool. No, it's good to see y'all, man. How y'all feeling? We're officially live now. We're out here in the world.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

That. I love that. How you feel about it, Jerry? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

So I was like, you don't even think about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah. I I mean, I saw that it was out there. I think I saw like maybe you posted it on Facebook. Um, I sent it to Sam. I think she might have sent it to a couple folks. But um, hey, you know, ready for what comes from it.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it was good. I did it.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

It was a busy week. Like last week was such a busy week. Um we did uh we're at the there's a black history museum. The museum, yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

In Dallas, yeah. We did that Thursday. How was that? It was cool, man. It's not a big, huge one. It's over there in Fair Park outside the Cotton Bowl. And um it's just like um different artifacts from the area. But you know, it was kind of cool. It's probably like a one hour, one and a half hour tour exhibit kind of thing. The docent was real cool, but we had maybe I'd say about 50 people show up, I guess, to that one. And um we're getting just more traction going live on like TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. So that's getting going. But what's wild is just the outreach that has come from it. And so uh Sam and I were just kind of digging through a lot of that earlier today. It's a little bit overwhelming. Um kind of like, you know, like if you've if you got a product or something you're selling, and then you go on Shark Tank and all of a sudden, you know, you got like a nationwide commercial and you got, you know, thousands and thousands of orders to fill and stuff, and you're like, okay, well, wait, let's let's just take a breath here and kind of figure out how we wanna approach all this and manage all of it. And because it's a lot, it's quite a bit more than what we initially set out to do, build, and create. Um so it's somewhat of a good problem to have. We just gotta kind of manage it. Yeah, for example, nonetheless, I suppose. But yeah. Cause that that anime club that I was telling you about, we had so we had two of them. Yeah, I saw it.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

I've been looking at I'm like, bro, we're gonna have to take a trip one of those days that come dressed up, just come cosplay with y'all for a little weekend, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Bring it, man. I I should show you Julian's Julian's uh his name was Lucius Scythe. And he came up with his origin stories, background, powers, weaknesses, just all kinds of different things.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Um, real quick, this is the this is the anime club in the under the co-op tribe, right?

SPEAKER_06 4:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

The the the uh black homeschoolers co-op. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, uh someone posted yeah, the a video to Kendrick Lamar's and it's just like black, black, black, black, black. But um, yeah, check that out.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

It's important, man. Hey, we wanna we wanna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

So we see that. So it went good, though, right? The first one.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Oh, yeah, yeah, it went well. It went well. Yeah, the first one went real well. I think, you know, it's it's just showing all those different facets of, you know, black America, black culture, what, you know, who you can be, who you want to be. It wasn't always like that. And so being able to embrace all parts of who you are and what you like and what you're a fan of and what you're passionate about, especially when it's something creative like that, you know. And now they're all, you should see them, man. They're all on like the tablets, drawing, learning how to draw in different animation styles.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah, I seen the bookshot. Dude, I'm super invested in the animals, right? Scouring every inch of the pit. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna see that's super exciting, man. That's really cool, man. Dude, everything is like pointing to detail, and I'm just like Where is it?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Where is it like North Dallas? Is it because my brother was asking about it? It's downtown. Yeah, yeah, it's downtown. So is it is it it's IBM right now? You're under IBM, but you're still kind of under that soft layer unit. Nah, no, I'm just straight IBM.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

Yeah, it's it's funny. Um, I'm not gonna say that. And I was put under IBM, I think, as a uh, it was a bit underhanded how I how I got there, but it actually was the greatest thing that happened for me. Uh, because as soon as IBM bought SoftLair, me and four other people got thrown to the IBM side of things. And that's where everything kind of changed up. Because, you know, I was just kind of a server jockey, bro. You know, I knew some, you know, Laritina, but it was it was just server-side stuff, dude, OS stuff, which is well, there could be a million things wrong, but that's okay. It's only a million things. So it's it's and those million things have been mapped out by it's it's easy to troubleshoot, man. But when we start doing platform stuff, and I moved over to IB, all the it's now it's like, oh yeah, there's a million things wrong, but there's a billion causes, and you need to figure out, you know, and it turned into, but then here's what's crazy. So then, you know, you know, containerized, right? You're like, okay, well, we just use containers. That's brilliant. Because now you don't really got to troubleshoot what went wrong. It was working. You put your stuff on there and it broke it. Your stuff's wrong. And so that's kind of the point. It's like you have a working version of it. Just clone that container, boom, and you're and you're good. But it's hard for people to get out of the mindset of troubleshooting my broken thing. So now we've got 70 containers running, and it's like, well, just blast one away and replace it. Like, well, no, figure out what's wrong. And it's like, no, that's the point of this. Like, we don't. Let me tell you what's wrong. You broke it. We gave it to you working. We know what's wrong already. So fix that before you're deployed. It's just so that that part is a little bit frustrating that we've got this beautiful technology, but our brains haven't caught up with how it needs to be utilized. And so uh it's almost like we're going backwards. It's it's very, it's very strange. But it does keep me employed. So you know, double-edged sword there. But um, but yeah, dude, I I uh I do think I want to make a trip, I'll get it, just make a trip down there. Um hang with y'all, but definitely that club will be nice, man. A few years back, we actually had uh anime tabletop that uh we started, and uh that was pretty fun. It didn't last too long, maybe like three or four months, people got busy, but it's pretty fun, man. So it might be an idea that y'all could do, especially since you're already creating characters, man. You transfer that to a character sheet, y'all got you, you know, get you a good get you a good DM, you know, and um really fun scenarios, and uh but yeah, that's uh that's really cool, man.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

I Yeah, they're working on it, working on world building, working on other supportive characters, things like that. I think they had like uh hero, anti-hero, uh villain discussion last time is what it was. And um, I think they were doing like story arcing, that'll be part of it. It's it's uh it's kind of uh so it's there is curriculum that is part of it. So yes, there is obviously the fun part of it, but there's nothing we do that doesn't have any type of, you know, educational curriculum that's a part of it. And so yeah, they're getting a lot of creative um, you know, output and expression through it. So the pe even the people that are building these costumes, um, you know, that's a creative outlet for them, which was real cool, especially to see my son do his. Um that was something I wasn't really expecting because he he was pretty even made the little scar that was going down like his eye. Well then he 3D printed these dragons and he had a three he had a dragon on each shoulder and um a dragon on his scepter. Yeah, I was like carrying like a scepter and like a dragon on spray painted black. Yeah, he's spray painted dragon.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

It's like, dude.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Okay, man, okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

I'm telling you, this this this medium gives so much creative freedom, man. I I'm the the types of heroes, journeys, the type of storytelling. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's it's the lessons that are in these anime are so pivotal. It's the same lessons I'm trying to teach my son. It's the same lessons I'm teaching myself. I mean, these they really do a great job of all of that. And like you said, the the ability to express yourself in the most whatever way you want. There's no limit there. That's what I love about there's no limit to a character's anything in in when you're when you're in that when you're in that space, man. I I mean I know y'all remember when it wasn't cool to like this sort of stuff, man. And and it's super cool to see that come full circle to where now, you know, it's it's uh it's used as a means to educate and express love for the for the gay, man. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Bro, the Comic-Con scene, man, like the the convention, just dude, that's a whole thing. Like, and it's blown up for the last, what, shoot, 10, 15 years?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah, man. We go to Comic Palooza when it comes down here, it's it's just it's great. And the communities are really fun. As y'all know, any any fan community is really fun when you're in it, man, most of the time, you know, and so uh it's always good to get with like-minded individuals. That's the point of the tribe. That's the point of everything that that we're doing, actually, is is uh when we get like-minded individuals together, man, it's it's hard to stop progress. It's hard to stop um betterment, you know, in those sort of environments, man. So we want to definitely breathe that wherever we go.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Like it's so much connection that's happening, and then ways in which you just wouldn't, you wouldn't think. And um it's ways in which you know is inevitable. And so you're best to put yourselves in those situations where it can happen. Like, for example, so we're I was talking to one of the one of the dads, and he had just purchased a telescope. He was all excited about it. It was while we were at the museum, and he told me about it the entire time. So the entire time we're at the museum, he's talking about this telescope, but he's excited about it. So I'm listening. I did I saw maybe half of one of the exhibits at the at the museum. Uh, but I I could feel his passion. I was like, man, yeah. I remember when my uncle gave me his telescope. He had bought it. He and his wife and he were getting into astronomy. Astronomy. Yeah, shout out to the uncle, man. Ah. Ooh, where this one is going. So um, yeah, my uncle and his wife were getting into like, you know, hobbies they could do together as a couple, and uh astronomy was one of them. And so they bought a uh eight-inch Dobsonian telescope, and it sits about four feet high. Um, I got it right there in the corner of the room. And it's a big one. But he it's an older one, though. It's a manual one. So you gotta learn all the measurements, you gotta learn, you know, where stuff is in the sky and everything. Yeah. Learn how to use it, um, the lenses and stuff like that. But the dad, he got a newer, like electronic one. So he just hooks up to your phone, doo doo doo-doo doo, GPS points right to whatever you want to look at. Yeah. Easy. I'm sitting here like doing these minute measurements because one millimeter here on Earth is like thousands of light years in the sky. So every time I budget, it exactly. Don't bump it, dude, as you walk around. No, it took me half an hour to find this star. You're the next galaxy. Yeah. So you're telling me about this telescope, and I was like, hey man, you know what? Um, I'm interested in that too. I was like, I got a telescope, and we've gone out here to the lake that's right around the corner from the house where there's no light pollution and stuff. And and I said, let's try to get the get the kids out because I'm sure uh most of them haven't seen, you know, the moon up close, let alone, you know, like Jupiter or Saturn or something like that. Hey, shout out my favorite planet. Um Yeah, right on, man. And so this one that I've got, you can see it, the good moon in good sight. You can see Jupiter, probably like three or four of its largest moons. Um, but there's a planetary alignment that's coming up, like I think in I know the next however many months, I think it's probably three or so. So we're trying to schedule that. But um, there are all these little things that are coming up that when I'm meeting these people that they're interested in or passionate about, or just something that they're checking out for a little bit of time, um, that adds a little bit of seasoning on what you're doing in life. And not only that, you can then expose the kids to it. You know what I mean? And it's like, hey, man, it's you already have a telescope. I got a telescope. It's nothing. It's just meet up at the park. Um, you know, it's get it'll be getting darker later coming up after the after the solstice, you know, after the equinouts. So um we'll have to figure something out from a timing perspective. But yeah, man, like it's nothing to do. And then you go out there and kids' minds are blown when they look in the lens of a telescope and see the moon right in their face like that.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

Yeah. Right there. Right there. Or see. Not on a computer screen.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Not on a computer screen.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Not a screen. It opens up something inside of you no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

No matter what. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just trying to expose them as to say, okay, well, there's something in, and it's cool to be interested in it, and it's cool to think it's cool. And if you want to jump into something that's uh So yeah, we're getting the little astronomy club going. So we got anime club going.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Uh I can't be there every weekend now. God damn. Come on now.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

It's time to just move, man. It's obvious, dude.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

It is. I'm probably excited that wasn't when I got mine. I was calling general, like, what I do, all this. It was crazy when we got there, kids like, hey, can the people on the moon see us? And I'm like, Right. I'm like, there's no people on the moon. He's like, How do you know? I was like, I don't have a good answer for you, dog. I ain't never been there. Um Yeah. We're looking. We're looking. We could see them here if we if if they were there, you know. I guess they're cool. That's nice, though. Yeah, you're right. You don't take nothing to like you said, it opens up a a just a universe, literally, right? To see their eyes widened. Yeah. Because it it changes the way they think. It changes their perspective on what all of this is and how big something can be, how and how cl it it it changes the way they think, which is powerful, man.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

See, see, you going down that way, but what even came to mind was for me, whenever you were telling that story, was how your uncle and your aunt sit it together. Like that's like I think about that. Like what one of my one of my sort of goals is to not goals, but one of the things I want to do is I want to be able to see the Milky Way. Like without all light pollution, you can see the Milky Way in in at a certain time of the night. That's one of my you know, uh things I want to do. But like you know, I when I think of it, I always think about, you know, going with the missus and going up there or I don't know. But like actually going to see the cosmic space sort of it it helps you understand like this is literally just a spaceship that's just floating through the through the galaxy. Rock. One hey like like you said, move a millimeter and you've you've missed our planet. That's right. Even even when I go out to like I went out to um the Acadia National Park um a couple a few years back, just seeing those amount of stars without the light pollution there. I mean I didn't even see the Milky Way, but I saw like more stars than I've seen ever. And you're just like it makes you real it gives you some perspective. Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

It makes me under Oh, my phone, my phone. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Well what I was gonna say is it makes me understand the perspective of ancient peoples. When they were seeing that every you can't help but believe in the all might in something greater than yourself when you when that's what you see every night. When you know you're I'm not gonna say insignificant, but when you know there is so much more than whatever this is right here, well, that'll really do something to your mind, man. It really and it but it makes me understand kind of how they or maybe why they created such reverence for the heavens and for the stars and why everything rotates around that. It's it was it was so prominent in their lives. Couldn't do nothing but exactly I mean every night nightly, exactly nightly you're seeing this.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Every night you didn't have no choice. There was no lights came down when the fire went out.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Okay, you're and you're staying at the universe, bro.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

And it's overwhelming sometimes to think of it like just all the time on a clear area, clear sky, you know, just all that coming at you. I I think there's you know, the everybody says, go touch grass, touch grass. You know, two things we don't do enough. We don't touch enough grass and we don't see enough star see enough cosmic skies. I think if we did that more often, touch a little more grass and look a little bit more in the into the stars, I think there would be so much less bullshit that people would.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Yeah. Did you realize there's so much more? It's so much more than our little petty shit, man.

SPEAKER_06 20:43

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

There's so much more out there. We're so my beef with a dude at my job is nothing when I'm staring at the light from a gas giant that exploded 14 million years ago. Like what what is oh, I didn't like that slack comment? Okay, that's a that's a that's enough of thinking about that. That's enough of thinking about that, man.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

But on the opposite side, it makes you, you know, hug your children a little bit tighter. You know, embrace those small moments a little bit more because you understand the in the infinite, the seemingly infinite nature of the cosmic, this is but a vapor, but a breath, you know, and and and that person, you know, the person in the Bible comes really means a lot more, but that we're just a you know, shadows and dust, right? We're just a ba we're just a breath. And sometimes when you don't focus on that and you understand that and don't understand that this could just be um you know, over. Not even just over, but like that like it will be over faster than you want it to be. And it could be wasted And that every moment you wake up You need to fill that vapor up as much as you want to you want to be the the winter breath breath that you see. You don't want to be that little spittle that comes out when somebody sneezes. You want to be a whole loogie, bro. Like Spittle. That's my that's my favorite word, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Dude, it's funny. Jared and I were talking before we started about this album. I was listening to this old uh this old Buster Rhymes album. And the song, uh his intro song, he has a line that says, get what's yours from out this motherfucker before your time run out, man. And he repeat he repeats it three times before he ends that song, man. And that's exactly what you're talking about, dude. You need to get it all. Get it all. Drink up every single drop. Because we hear from but a but uh just a smidge in a time. Just a smidge in a time, man. If you you blink too hard, you don't miss. Here's the thing, you can do everything right and it can all be gone, bruh. You know what I'm saying? Like But the fact that we are aware of that, I think does allow us to enjoy these moments, enjoy every moment, you know, good and bad, you know. Well, not maybe not we, but people tend to not want to embrace the bad things in life too. But I learn so much more from my failures than I ever do from, you know, getting it right the first time on talent or luck or whatever that may be. Because I like to learn about myself. I like to learn where my limits are so I can push past them. I need to know what I'm not good at. You know, that's the reason why I always challenge myself with something that is uncomfortable, you know. You don't fail and you're not trying hard enough. It's it's what we talked about, you know, weeks back, man, where it's like I do that at every facet of my life, except for my career where I wanted to be very conservative and not get too uncomfortable and just kind of lay low and do my job. And that's not getting me where I want to be. And so I've I've expanded that out to my career as well so that I can take these chances, take these risks, and and get ahead, you know? I need to flourish.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

Let me ask you, is that do you feel that you've limited yourself because you are the primary or primary breadwinner and sole provider? Or do you feel like do you feel like it's more mental as far as uh sort of a self-restraint to keep you from exploring?

SPEAKER_03 24:38

I mean, a little from column A, a little from column B, as Grandpa Sinsman used to say, man. Um I I think it's all of that, man. I think and any and probably even more factors, if I'm being honest with you. Um, but yeah, fear of, well, if I fuck up, who's gonna take care of everything? It's always there, right? You know, where it's like, I'm the only breadwinner, man. If I fuck this up, that's all, you know, let me not make because we and we, I'm sure we've all been there where it's like, I ain't gonna play that game, that corporate game, and then your ass sitting on the bench and you're like, I'm just kidding, I'll I'll actually, I'll actually play the, I'll be the cheerleader. I I was just, I was only and so that moment had to happen for me, right? Where it was like, well, what's more important? You know, my my pride, which is really just my ego, manifesting as pride, you know, fooling me into thinking it's pride, or my family's well-being. Which which one do I care about more? Because I can be right. But okay, I used to ride my bike on Bellway, right? This lady was pulling out one day. I had the right of way, but I told her to go ahead. And she was like, oh, baby, you could have went. You had the right of way. I said, Yeah, but I don't know if you're gonna stop. What's the point of being right and dead? If you're being right, that's that's that means very little in these sort of situations. And I had to realize that also about being right about prideful situations where it's like, okay, you were right, but now you got a big ass target on your back. No, yeah, nobody wants to help, you know. And it's like, oh, once I had, once I realized that, it allowed me to accept those hardships that I thought aren't fair. Yeah, they still aren't fair, but the door locked from the inside, baby, you ain't gotta be here. So are you willing to deal with it? And so I'm sure there was a part of me that's like, well, I don't want to mess this up because it's hard to get a good paying job like this. It's hard, you know, all of those factors. I'm like, well, let me just chill. Let me not try to do too much, let me not try to rock the boat. Because at that time when I was doing that, man, it got close enough to me being let go that I was like, uh, maybe I need to chill a little bit. Like, that's what made me check my pride, not actually checking my pride. It was like, well, oh, I'm this might end poorly for me. Let me reevaluate this. But in that re-evaluation is where you kind of, well, is where I kind of learned you gotta, you gotta play the corporate game if you want to get ahead. Because they make the rules. And it's up to me if I want to play the game here, play the game somewhere else. I feel like there's always gonna be a game nowhere no matter where I go. Um but everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

There's there's not a place you can go ever that there's not a game being played. Like, and I think that's hey, also speak for yourself. Uh I have always been a corporate minion. I am a dollar represented by a man. And it serves you well, brother. Okay, yeah. That's but you always, but but what and I used to, in in my younger, younger parts of my career, I was very much so similar to you, as far as like, man, this ain't fair. This is a but then when you st when I realized that there's a game everywhere. Period. Full stop. There's a game at your job, there's a game at home. There's a game when you go to that grocery store and you trying to pick which line to go to, you know, the self-checkout or the or the or the the the whatever that line is with the with the cashiers. There's always a game. And so the key is not to not find a game or not have a game or not play the game. The key is to pick the game that you want to play under the rules and terms that you want to play. Hence why I've had so many different positions, probably. Just because you know, you you it's just like in chess, you pick the piece you want to be in in life by ascribing the skills to yourself that you need and want to be successful. And then you put your gay you put your piece in on the chessboard, and then you are constrained by the rules of your skills, basically, right? So like and that's why I I preach so much to people saying, hey dude, it's about your skills, it's about your mindset, it's about your perseverance. You know, those increase your increase it take you from a pawn to a rook to a bishop to a queen to a king, right? They move you up the stack of chess pieces to the point where you know there's some people who are queens at this game where they can you can move up, down, you only thing you can't do is that little L shape that the knight can do. But here's the thing the knight can only do that that little L shape, but it's that's the only thing it can do forward and backward. And it's so special, but it's not the queen that can move all over the board. I think that at the end of the day, you're you you build your skills to where you pick the piece you want to be on the board, and then from there you pick the game.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

I mean, you in the game. That's the thing, yeah. I I I thought I couldn't I thought I didn't have to play. You know? Um that was definitely some naivete on my end. And uh it it cost me some time. Uh but that's okay. That's okay, because I think what I learned from it I can use, obviously going forward. What I learned from it I can use to uh to to to better play the game. You know, that that's that's really all it's about. It's about just playing the game better and better at every level. And there's a portion of the game I neglected. And, you know, I'm I'm I'm in I'm in training camp, baby. I'm I'm trying to get that get that shit worked out so I can continue to succeed. Because I'm gonna tell you, man, um sometimes when you plateau it doesn't feel that way. Uh you know, I I I think I got stagnant and comfortable in my position, and it it made me less ambitious, I think. You know, that year turned into five, turned into ten, you know, real quick. You know what I mean? And it and it's like, oof, you wake up one day and it's like the only reason I'm making moves now is because the company's also making moves, and it's like, oh, I guess I better do something now. Yeah. And so uh but like I said, I still think it's lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

There's probably like other aspects, like there's other aspects too that happen, like in life, you know. There was a and you know, there was a pandemic that we went through, there was I guess there was hurricanes that came through. So there are things that happen that say, okay, well, I need to focus on stability in this area, I need to maintain stability in this area, and maybe not jeopardize because uh everything else was kind of a lot of factors. Especially when you got young kids under five years old, stuff like that, you may not be pushing the gas too hard on that career piece. I like that game analogy. You know, chess always always good as an analogy for life in general. I think one framework that's helped to see things in is also from a market perspective, especially in a in our society, in a consumer society, and just kind of how our economy is built, is seeing things as a market. There's always something for sell, there's always something to buy, there's there's a necessity for transaction. Um just like Jermaine was saying, the L-shaped knight, the one, the one square move pawn, can be just as powerful at any different time, any different moment in the game as the queen, as the rook, or you know, as any other piece line and so forth. So just like a market, uh, markets change. And so your skill set in one market may have one value, but that skill set in another market may have exponentially more or exponentially less, uh, depending on on where you are and the market that you're in. And so you might see something as, okay, well, I'm not getting ahead here, or maybe I haven't been as ambitious, so on and so forth. But as the market shifts, and you know, as you upskill and stuff like that, that's one thing chess pieces can't really do is upskill. Um but as you get that pawn all the way across.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

No, that's can't wrong. You take that pawn all the way over, it upscills.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Oh, yeah. You take the but that's the only one though. But I mean, like you can't make it all the way to the other end. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

Yeah. Um there's something to that, man, as far as like you you do the as a pawn, you make it through the treacherous board to get to the end.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yeah. That might be a a good, that's a a another good, another analogy for another point we're we might be making right after this one. But um, yeah, just knowing the market that you're in and then upskilling, like Jermaine's saying. And you find yourself position yourself appropriately, you got immensely more valuable than you initially thought.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

Yeah. And and value, that's another that was another shortcoming of mine. I undervalued myself as well. Uh that was a big problem. And I don't know why I don't know why I'm not as confidently me in this stage as I am in every other stage of my life. I the question you asked me earlier about what, you know, why is it that I h hold back? That's a man, I'm gonna be thinking about that for a little while. Because I I too wonder that. Because I think that it is uncharacteristic of me to be this way, to be this timid about it. And I and I I just I I too wonder why I, you know, am that way about this. It's uh it's a good question. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

I appreciate that vulnerability, man. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

It's um it's a lot of question that a lot of people struggle with too. I mean that and that's that's not a I I I was speaking to uh a lady from the Podfest a couple weeks back. And the whole reason why she started her podcast is kind of like what you were saying. She was felt like she was holding her back, holding herself back. Um and um, you know, her her podcast is actually she really thriving now, but the she asks she has a question for herself every year. And last year's question for herself was why not me? Like, why not me? Why can't why why why not me be whatever? Why not me whatever? Anything that you see yourself holding you back from, just you know, she simply started asking herself, like, why not me? And sometimes just the question, sometimes just having the qu having the question, you don't even have to have the answer. But having the question identified can help you, like you said, be like, well, why not?

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean that that's who I feel like that's exactly what happened just now. I was like, that's a that is a very good question. That's a very good question. We're gonna have you in Dallas here. We're gonna you know what? We're gonna be doing this in person.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

We're gonna be doing this in person. This is all a sci-out. It's a science.

SPEAKER_05 36:19

This is all just to get me into detail, bro.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

This empire, the podcast studio. It's a thumbnail. It's not even a I do like the thumbnail for the for the last episode, too. That was nice. Um but yeah, man, you you I think you're exactly right. I think that sometimes there are situations like you're talking about where I feel this is actually one of those where, like you said, identifying the question is much more important, at least at the start, than what the actual answer is. Because in the same way that I was avoiding whatever thing, I likely was avoiding that question. Because that's the question that if I have the answer for, the excuses are gone, right? Like that's the question that if it gets answered, then it's like, well, well, then why aren't you doing XYZ? And so if I just don't ask that question, I don't have to ever push myself in that direction. I think that there's a there's a part of that, I think. Um I think there's a part of the reason. Or you have the reason. True, true. But the the problem with me is I'll give excuses and then say the reasons, man. You know, that it's it's it's easy for me to rationalize shit and start throwing excuses out for reasons because I can make them sound reasonable as hell, okay? But in the back of my mind, I know I'm I'm I'm just using word magic to to to make it sound good. That that's why I'd rather not go that route because I know me, man. I'm uh I don't know. I'm I'm odd sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

It's it's okay, man. It's okay. Oh, by the way, uh planetary alignment, February 28th, is six planets.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

Do y'all have a favorite planet? If since we're since we're touching on that a little bit, you know, astronomy is I really enjoy that stuff out there, man. I I do think that there's gonna be a new Saturn's not bad. Um Jupiter is mine. Jupiter's my my all-time favorite. I love I love our big brother. He's he's awesome. The savior of Earth.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Jupiter's awesome. That's just I guess I better had a favorite. I mean, definitely just one to look at would be Saturn. I mean, just because it's so unique. Yeah, no, I don't think I've ever down one down that's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Mars might get some rings soon. Well, I say soon, but relatively soon, Phobos might crash into it. It'll break it up and get some nice rings. But um I'll tell you this, man. I I think uh, yeah, one of those silly moons out there. I I saw I was looking at some picture of like right, it was like a recently um Olympus Mons, whatever the big ass volcano is on Mars. It was a cool shot, so it was facing us, and then I believe it was Phobos. But you know, one of those moons like went across it. It just was a really cool shot, you know, of uh of the moon, or we of that of that moon uh going across. But uh its orbit is like almost at, what do they call it? The Lagrange point? I don't want to try to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

But um swinging back.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Yeah, so it it might it might fall in. That would be kind of cool. But uh but so when when three eye atlas and all that stuff was going on, the most amazing thing that I found about that out there was the way the electromagnetic fields of these planets were all interacting with this object and the sun as well, from distances that are fucking insane. And I'm like, like, I feel like a new realm of science could be discovered with this, man, because I didn't, I didn't know, I didn't know things interacted that way. I didn't realize that when these satellites, you know, run through here, that you know, our sun starts just blasting off solar flares at the damn thing. It's it I mean, it it was so weird. It was like, what the f what is this? You know, we don't have objects come through often, so it's like we don't we don't see this. And I I didn't know at all that there was any sort of connection um with these magnetic fields uh in this way between you know these planetary bodies and stuff, man. I I found that so just crazy how how everything is connected in that way over those distances. Especially with something moving that fast, too. Just anyway, it it was really that was really something, boy.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

That was really something to think of it as you it's is it like yeah, you think of it as just like an individual object that's moving through space, but it's being pushed and pulled.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Like just amount of gravity that's pushing it is the amount of gravity that's pulling it. And yeah, you got all kinds of celestial bodies.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

And that's why it got weird because it's like, well, hold on, because now it's doing this invisible outgassing and it's accelerating, and it's like, well, what? Is this a new form of magnetism? We don't even know what this thing's comprised of. It's like, why? It's so crazy, man. Because when you think about the fabric of space-time, we think about like you talk about the the the way that it's kind of falling towards the sun, I guess, and then being pulled by each one of the planets as it passes by, and that's it's so strange how it's all connected, it's all some giant soup and the strings connecting everything. We just can't see it. And it's like again, we don't perceive those interactions because we just can't see them, dude.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

You know what, man? That is that you know, I always like to see like God and people. I don't want to say well, God, but the universe always reflects the in the macro, the micro, right? So as you're describing that, I just think about like the interactions we have with people every day. You know, everything from you know, the the tribe, the black co-op, what we're doing here on UncTalk, where we just connect, even just the connection points that we had where we started, where at Jared's wedding, where we all first met and how it just all extrapolates out. And so just having like people always I know it's a bit turned to the right, but people always debate on like what's the point of doing good? What's the point of even what's what is it worth? But you don't understand that your one decision to do what's needed or what should be done, or you know, putting that person on the right path has so much of a ripple effect through time, you won't there there's no way to do the calculation to get back to the effect, even to just where we're at today. Like you know, us recording today was literally a seed from the wet Jared's wedding. Jared's wedding was our three eye atlas, baby.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

That it it's it's that's it's insane.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Even before that, yeah, Jared and Samedi. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Exactly. Yeah. You know how many quote unquote coincidences have to happen for this time?

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That yeah, you can't, like you said, you can't go. It's kind of like how they say um they say you can count the you can count the number of seeds in an apple, but only God can count the number of apples in the seed. It's kind of like that. You can't you can't go you can't go. Let those biblical verses cook, boy. You can't go back. Yeah, like you said, so much has to has to happen and be in place.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

But then it's like, well, no, what about the seventies or the sixties when our parents met? Well, but what about the forties? When about well, what about the The slave striped the well, what about the, you know, and it just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah. What about the genome and what about the right exactly?

SPEAKER_03 44:08

Because at some point we're talking about a shrew type creature that didn't get extinct with a dinosaur. And it's like, yep, this will be a podcast one day. It's like, what the fuck? Like, there's not even a way to uh, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 44:25

This will be a podcast one. I'm telling you, dude.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

First, first multicellular organism was like, um, I see it coming, baby. I'm splitting for umktop, dog. Just so this moment. TikTok post, right now. Why did I, you know? So somebody once said on this show, there was like, it's ever since mass expansion, big bang, whatever you want to call that, every particle has been unfolding the exact only way it can. Everything from that moment has just been this. This was inevitable. It was inevitable that this happened.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Well, well, hold on, hold on now. I don't know if it was inevitable though. That's the thing, man. It's well, it's about choices. See, hey, we're about to get into deep. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Yeah, because I have some thoughts on choice. On free will.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Well, I mean, this didn't have to, like, that that's the thing. It didn't have to happen. You know, somebody, somebody that it did. Like, well, now we're getting into deep stuff here, but I mean, at the end of the day, I think I I believe there's two mo there's momentum and then there's there's there's momentum and then there's action. And so yeah, just because you're not making the decision doesn't mean decisions aren't being made. Right? Or maybe you're dis maybe you're not even conscious of the decisions. But when you are conscious to make the decision, that's why like you the when you're conscious to make the decision and take it into your hands to make the decision, you can't always define the outcomes, but you can put your put decisions in place to disproportionately create a certain outcome. Right? It's like risk, like me and Jared always talk about, like you managing risk. And so your decisions improve the odds of the said decision you're trying to make happen. And so that's why they always tell you don't reach for the stars. Just if you reach for the stars, you'll eventually hit you'll either hit the you'll hit the moon. Just because you're making the decision to reach for the stars doesn't mean you'll hit the stars. You'll but your decision to reach for the stars will ultimately help you achieve hitting the moon. And maybe that's enough. And so, you know, I I the I think that typically whenever whenever we get into these because I know we can get into a long, long debate about like philosophical free will, is it destiny? Like, I know you anime guys let it be like the destiny is written in the scroll of the karma. So it is written by since say like I don't, I don't, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

I honestly think you help my case with what you just said. Because I think what you're talking about is just information. And what I mean by that is this if we're on a pool table, right? And we're hitting the cue, you know, hitting the cue ball, you know, you're racked it, boom, and the balls go everywhere and it's random. But if you know the weight of the balls, if you know the type of friction that's gonna be on that table, if you know the velocity of the first ball being hit, with enough information, you can tell you could tell me where every single one of those balls will go before you hit it. I think life is exactly that same way, but it is impossible to know all the information. You can gather as much information as you can, which is what you're talking about as far as planning and doing to set yourself up to be the best possible position to make this statistical outcome happen. But I would argue if you had all the information about your life, about because like the decision for this to happen or for you to go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

Hold on, hold on, one second, one second, one second. So we're we're we're agreed and disagreeing at certain key points. So I think I can agree with that. It's not a pool table, it's it's a river. It's like the Mississippi. If you the Mississippi flows north to south, right? It flows from Canada all the way out to the Gulf of America now or Gulf of America. But you can get on a speedboat and ride that ride the Mississippi upriver. But if you turn that engine off, you will float down to the Gulf America. And so I say that yes, there is a life, there is a momentum of life, I think, that will and I think there's there's a there's a there's a term called entropy, right? Where um life just if left un untended to just breaks down, right? It's it's the house in the neighborhood that nobody lives in that over 50 years becomes a dil a dilapidate dilapidated house, right, right? Nobody can even touch it, but it becomes it it entropies, is what I'm trying to say. And so there the the momentum of life, I believe, is darkness and negative. Like it's entropy, it's it's it's just loss of energy, it's it's destructive. It is just it is it if if you like lend yourself to the life to the life of momentum, there is no building or growth. There's no like even the planetary systems, you know, the heat is everything's getting cooler and further apart and slowing down and speeding, like like life, the the momentum of life is entropy. It's it's on a negative path, and it is up to us or you know, you know, good people to make the decision to bend the art toward good. And in my thought, in my opinion, I don't think that I think that that is why you see a lot of the negative in the world right now. Like, not right now, but in general in life, right? We we've been more we've we've had less time of civilization than than uncivilized, right? As you humans, most of our history is uncivilized, killing and killing each other and all sorts of things, right? This has been a very brief period of time where we've been peace, peaceful, and even in the earth, right? The the the solar system is peaceful, right? Right, right. And so I think that it's even more so important to make those decisions for the good, the to make those decisions for the building, to make the decisions of creation, because the opposite of that is destruction and entropy.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

I uh I'm gonna try to explain this because you you're still helping my cause. You don't see it though. Because so, okay, let's say you're a river analogy, right? In the river analogy, is is free will the motor on the boat? Is that what free will is? And uh the rushing of the river is just the momentum of life you're talking about, right? The the uncontrollable. The destiny. The destiny is so I would argue still that what that is is a lack of information. Because if it was at all possible for you to know what every molecule of water, what everything was doing, you'd be able to navigate it perfectly. It's just that we can't know that information. So when it switches is it seems random to us, the observer, because we don't have the information about what is going on there. Now, I don't think we can ever know that information. So it will always seem like I'm making the decision. But like, there is a way, if I knew everything about you and every experience, I could tell you why you picked that green shirt you're wearing today. There's a reason for it. You know what I mean? I just don't have, I don't have the information to figure out that reason. So it just looks like you're just wearing that shirt today. But there is 100% a reason that can be tracked through things that have happened in your life, decisions that happened today, color schemes that you saw that you thought looked good. There's a reason for it. And so while it looks like you made the choice, the choice was already made. You're you're following in the shadow of a decision that you have to make because of the momentum of your life, because of all of the things that your brain has interpreted that you're unconsciously even aware of, bro.

SPEAKER_04 53:36

I let me let me let me make an even bigger point as far as I think that even to even to your point about the shirt, yeah, there there's it as you're saying that a lot of decisions cut there are a lot of decisions to make this shirt here. Let's put it this way. True. Okay, okay. We'll leave it there. Okay. Because because this shirt could have easily been in the trash. So it it was it was bending toward entropy. I don't think it could have been. It was it was it was bending toward Hey, hey, if I tell you, yo, dude, it's almost been there because it's right here. This this is a side note, but let me tell you, this shirt, the really I'm rocking the Bill Belichick right now. This is a this is a hoodie that I've cut, right? The reason why I'm rocking the Bill Pelichek is because I was starting the grill on in my house, and I started it, and I was like, man, this thing ain't starting it. And then I had the my lighter was lit, and then I opened it a little bit and boof, and then like the fire kind of caught on my sleeve here, and because it's good cotton, it didn't burn me up. Anyway, it's good cotton. That's the that's the side note to the story. Coming back to the original point, I just say this. I always like to I always look at principles and concepts in in in other disciplines to apply that that apply to they could possibly apply to life, right? Yeah. In the sense that in physics, the we know the we may not know the individual points of say the water, right? We may not know each individual molecule what it's doing. But we know that that molecule will cease to be able to be maintain its bonds to be water and will separate into its three components eventually. It will it will freeze, refreeze, freeze, refreeze so much so to the point where the bonds get weak and it loosens and it becomes hydrogen into two oxygens. And it will take somebody uh a force to create more water molecules in the system to keep even water together. And so I uh you're right. You can't know all of the decisions. I mean, I I I you can't know all of the variables in the in the massive equation of life. Not at all. But the end of the equation is zero. It's it's not wrong there. It goes it's going toward zero, right? Yeah. Like you in calculus we have the the you know, you're going toward the infinite. Yeah. You're you're going toward zero. Asymptote. Every ever more close.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

He was giving the term asymptote.

SPEAKER_04 56:39

So at the point of we we know the destination. We know the bend of But it doesn't actually go to zero, though.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

It goes it goes infinitely closer to zero, but never actually hits zero. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

But we know the direction is down and to the right.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Yeah, I'm not too sure where I mean you're both making points. I don't think you're I don't think you're both on the same plane. I think you you both of your points are valid. I don't think you're on the same plane, though, from where Joseph's.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

Where the end of mine goes is this. If it looks like a duck, it can just be a duck. Meaning this, the illusion I'm talking about still feels like free will, so it's free will, effectively, right? Like I because I also don't know any of the information, right? This seemed like that seemed random.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

But it wasn't but so when you're when you're talking to because that if if if either of you haven't defined what you mean by free will, so if Joseph, if I say, Joseph, you have the free will to turn around and rip that picture off of the wall, you have the free will to do it. There's no decision that's you know profound to cut to ponder the universe about, that's that's free will. Yeah, I think actually but I see what you're saying as far as like you don't have all of the data points. So what looks random actually in the context of control is random. And so, yeah, if I'm if I'm going down the river or going down the Mississippi or something like that, and uh a catfish flies up in, you know, whatever, is that a random thing? Yes, in the context of me doing what I'm doing, that is my experience is random. Right. And so there are random things. So you could say a tornado dropping um during a storm. Is that random? Well, in the context of uh of a normal, yeah, it's random. But if you say, well, actually the atmospheric pressure is right, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this isn't random at all. No, it's not random. Um but I I so to that point, yes, that's that's kind of the point Joseph's making. The point you're making, Jermaine, for entropy, uh from uh an entropy standpoint of defining that and how that happens, I think that's a different point you were trying to make when you were trying to say that if intention and entropy happens like usually like more so in a closed system, but if there's continual inputs in that system, then entropy kind of breaks down. But um in a in in a closed system, like say, for example, your own mind, right? If you're not stimulating, if you're not growing, you're not reading, you're not learning new things, you're not making new connections, you're not, you know, your your mind's becoming rigid and calcified, there's no neuroplasticity. Yeah, that can lead to entropy because there's nothing new coming in. You're not feeding your brain or your body or whatever else. The I don't think necessarily there's entropy on Earth, because as we know it, at least now, Earth for the most part is a closed system unless something comes in and you know, we get an asteroid or something and messes it all up. But, you know, the same amount, the amount of water we have on Earth now is the same amount of water we've always had. It just evaporates and goes, evaporates, it goes. But it's a closed system. So, like you said, that house that was built is an unnatural thing on Earth. So entropy essentially just restores it back to its original state. We cut down the tree, we made planks, we did this, and we built the house. And then entropy sets in and it goes right back into the cycle of whatever the hell it is. And so I think the point you were making is a value, both of you may be making valid points, but I think you just weren't I think Jermaine was talking about something different, and Joseph, you were talking about the thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

Yeah, those are valid points to a separate. Yeah, so I see we I see what you're saying. We weren't arguing the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Uh-uh. You're arguing something around free will. Jermaine was mostly arguing something around because you started to say something about doing good versus bad or evil kind of thing. That's kind of what precipitated the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

And then you went into the decision making about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Because I mean, you know, there's random events, there's ink there's there's intended consequences, there's unintended consequences, there's there's just all kinds of stuff that happens that, like you said, because of our limitedness, like for example, if we could see wind, a lot of stuff wouldn't look so random. Like if you could see air molecules, you're like, oh yeah, I can see how that would have fallen over. Oh yeah, I can see how you know that would have happened.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:39

Let me clarify one point. Let me clarify one point. So and and part of it is the I I just looked up the the definition of entropy that I was using was the second one versus the first one. So here's the point. The point is is that there the destiny that we always that people point to, I do believe that there is a course that life follows. And it will follow. You just by living in in action leads to entropy. And the entropy is a gradual decline into disorder or lack of order or predictability. And so if we if you don't it's you know, if you don't establish order and that's the action part, that's the decision part, then then what is left? Disorder. And so and not only is disorder left, but disorder is the destiny of things that don't have order established to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Don't have to never tend to your garden, it's gonna grow weeds and exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

So to the point of That's entropy on Earth. Sorry. Well, I'm I'm just saying, in in in well, I mean that's how that's thermal dynamics. That's physics, bro. No, no, no, no. Entropy is physics, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

That's that's I know entropy, but continue continue your point. Actually Go ahead. I I was gonna say that um Myron Golden does a good a good lesson on entropy. So if you uh I don't I mean, he's a cool dude for a bunch of other things just from a motivational standpoint, but he does a good, I think like two-part lesson on entropy. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

You know, it is it a book or is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

Uh he does, I think it's like a video, YouTube video. Yeah. It's like a sales guy. Shout him out. Okay, we shout him out. I mean, uh you might cut that out.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:39

I'm just bringing it up for for the sake of conversation. We go shout it out, man. We go shout it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

I was mostly just like it was a good video just to watch. I'm not shouting out him or his entire platform or anything like that. You talk about some wild shit after that video. Right, yeah. I mean, uh you know, no qualms against him, but go ahead, man. Yeah, entropy.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:03

No, I I I just say that if you if we don't if we as people of men who are trying to make quote unquote the world better in a physical in a if we leave the world to its own device, I mean this is the key this is the main reason we we've even had this conversation about if we leave the world as it is, it breaks down, entropy sets in, the institutions fall apart, the the lessons get lost, right? The the the so so the destiny of anything created or the destiny of life is for them to break down and fall apart. So the key is is and and and why do I say the importance of making the making the decision or making the action whatever that is, is because it keeps the entropy away. It fights it fights the decay, it fights the the disorder that is ultimately coming. And so I mean, we think about like yes, your son holding the door for a lady is that's not destiny. That's that's you being establishing order in that young man's life, and that order being carried out. Like the decision was made, and then what carries out from that is what what what what was built is now able to be a countervailing force to the destiny of life, is what I'm trying to say. So maybe it's it's destiny with with extra steps. With with few with with a few decisions. I yeah, I mean because I I do understand what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

It feels the same. Yeah, yeah. I think it's because it definitely feels the same. No matter which uh you prescribe to, the experience is exactly the same. No matter which one of those.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:10

No, no, no, no, no. The experience isn't the same because if you don't do anything, what is left is decay and disorder.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Well, what I'm saying is the the the doing something. So in the scenario, I'm talking about I wouldn't not do something.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:26

So You would well, but that's but that's what I'm that's the crux that we're saying. And if in without you making the decision to do something, you're not doing anything. Correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:38

And so I'm that's not what I'm arguing. What I'm saying is me doing something, or whatever the thing I did that then instilled that into my son, and he's doing this thing now. Right? The thing that he's doing, you can say, oh, well, he's doing that because his dad, you know, it's it's what we're talking about. You can you can follow it back. But I'm saying the experience is still him fighting entropy by doing that thing. It's still me fighting entropy by teaching him whatever it is I taught him or whatever. What what I'm saying is But the go ahead But you had the decision. There we go.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:19

There you go. You had the decision to pass the decision to either Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:24

To either I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:26

What I'm saying is free up the institution or keep it. Correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

But what I'm saying is if you knew the lessons I learned in life and what I did, you would know that it was a no-brainer. I was always going to teach him that. There was not a way that I could not teach him that with how I was raised, what I had been through, what now again, it still looks like I'm just making the decision to teach him something. But the reason why I'm doing that, there are reasons for that. And I'm and and what you're saying is I could also not tell him. Because I had I had to make that decision to not tell him. You had to make the choice. Correct. You had to create the space to make to teach it. But is it possible that because of what I went through, I could only make that choice? I know it seems like I could make, meaning this, meaning this. I could choke my wife out right now. I could I could do that, right? Oh, that's funny. But knowing me, knowing Sonny, knowing our relationship, that's not something that's going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

Yeah, I think the bridge between what you guys are saying is more so from a probabilistic standpoint.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:34

What Joseph's saying is like, hey, because of how I was raised, I was I had a bunch of examples of someone showing me chivalry and how to, you know, do this and be respectful, so on and so forth. And therefore, it's highly probable that I would teach my son that. Joseph's saying that from an absolute standpoint. He's saying, okay, yeah, because of my background, I I I had no choice but to teach my kid that. And so it isn't any, it it isn't what Jermaine is saying. So I think to bridge the gap of what you're talking about is, yes, it's highly probable, Joseph, that you would teach your, but you still have to make the decision to do it. I think there's you make the choice. It's not a choice. Well, you can't it you're so you're Joseph, what you're telling, what uh what I'm hearing you say rather, is choices we make, there are reasons for making the choice. And therefore it's not a choice. Well, I don't think the fact that there are reasons, how probabilistic they are, negates the fact that you still make a choice. Make a choice. Now, if you if you want to argue if you have a choice or not, that's a different argument. That's more of an argument around options. What options do you have available to you? What information do you have available? That's a totally different argument.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:55

Because I do agree with both of y'all on that point of I had to choose to make a chance. How is it not a decision, though?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:00

Right. How is it not a decision though? That's what you I think that's part of what you need to answer. Okay, so let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

It definitely is a decision I'm making.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

Okay, so that's that's Jermaine's argument, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

Right. To me, it's a high prob probability, right? But I'm saying, let's say there's some sort of weird fifth-dimensional creature that can see every experience you've ever had your whole life.

unknown 1:10:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

To that creature, there was a hundred percent probability of the way I will act. I'm saying the experience is that, yes, I'm making the decision.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:41

But his but his but his his view and your example is based on, you're saying your history.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

Everything it's based on my everything. It's based on my history. It's it's based on my child's history, it's based on every single experience that's happening, everything they've seen that day. What I'm saying is with enough information about the situation, he could 100% correctly predict what I was gonna do. I don't have that information. I could make guesses, like me teaching my son to fish, right? Now, I fished a lot growing up. I like it a lot. I go on fishing trips with my brothers. Y'all could make the guess that Joe's probably gonna teach his son how to fish, man. He really he really likes it. And it would be a good guess. Hey, I did do it. I made that decision to do it. Now, what I'm saying is, while I still, because there was a chance that I could not make that decision, right? I don't know that I believe that because of the things that I experience. I think that there was not gonna be a situation where I wasn't gonna teach my son how to fit.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:49

Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Okay, so so let's say, let's take your you as a father, right? Let's take how you are as a father. You're wait, the way I hear you saying that is it's someone could easily predict how you would be as a father based on how your dad was a father, his dad, and any other influence that came with the right information. That that's kind of what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:18

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:19

Okay. So, but but if you were thinking probabilistically and statistically, which you have to, that is that's a Ceratus Paribus situation. That's all other situations being equal. Because go like, say, for example, we uh perfectly, we're about to hit AI. Nobody knows, you know, some people say this about AI, but it's a whole new thing. Nobody knew how people are gonna uh act during the pandemic. There are probably social scientists that say, well, you know, probably this will may happen during the pandemic, and people will start to freak out, and you might have psychologists in there saying, okay, well, we have our view on what people will do, so this, this, so, this, and then a bunch of different perspectives, because that was a whole nother event. And so, but what I hear you saying is the decisions that were made during that time were not a free will decisions, or they just weren't decisions at all. Because what Jermaine is saying is, yeah, the pandemic happened and people, you know, people lost their job. You had a choice to either go do this, you had a choice to leave the country if you wanted to. Maybe you did have a choice, maybe you didn't have a choice because it wasn't an option. You know, just like Hurricane Katrina, some people stayed, some people left, but the people that stayed, they didn't have the option to leave. So it wasn't really a decision made for them. So maybe that's what Joseph is arguing. It's like depend depending on the situation. I still not see hearing where both of you guys are arguing the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:48

So you realize that in my situation, I'm talking about magic, right? Like I'm I'm not talking about something that is obtainable by a human at all. I'm talking about Okay, maybe I should ask you this question. Do you think that there is an amount of information that could exist that can 100% predict uh behavior?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:08

Human behavior?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:09

Yes. Like do you think that there is an amount of of Do you think that there is some sort of information that could be accumulated, whether that's somehow being able to know every experience they have, every feeling they've ever had about something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

Not at 100% accuracy.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:25

Why why not?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:26

And I think that if you could answer it, you would uh you would have the understanding of consciousness.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

Like you I agree with that too. But I'm saying why don't you think that there's an amount of information that could predict that?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

So you and so say for um maybe give me an example. Because I th I can think of high-level examples. So for example, if you're talking human behavior and you're talking about something fearful, or you're talking about something like monkey brain, reptile brain, those types of things can be predicted. I mean I mean very nuanced.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:57

Very nuanced things. But I'm saying, okay. So if I want to do that, in the same way the simple version, right, is the same thing as the the pool table, right? Where it's like, give me, you know, give me the velocity, give me the amount of friction, give me all of the there's way less information I need to know about the pool table to know where all those balls are gonna go. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

Because that's all mathematical.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:16

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:17

Okay. But if you put a so putting a human through a mathematical framework, yes, you could. But can you put a human through a mathematical framework?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

No, which is why our experience feels Yes, that is what I'm saying. That is what I'm saying. Right there, what you just said there, dude. Is can you put a human through it? The answer is no. We can't do that. We can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

So you're saying, is there can a human consume?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:51

No, not a human. That that's what I mean. I I don't I don't think that I'm not trying to understand it. I don't think that I can understand it. What I mean is like that if there was a way that I could have that information, could I predict? And if the answer is yes, what I'm saying is then everything is unfolding the only way it can, but still to us, because my conscious experience is not with that information, it does feel like I'm making that decision. It and I and I believe I am. It's just, again, if if we were able to have all the information and magically put us through a mathematical equation, could we figure it out? If the answer is yes, then that's where the quote illusion of free will is. The but the the the end be all though is it still feels the same. So it doesn't really matter. That's why it's just a philosophical question, because it doesn't matter at all. It still feels the same to me. Still feels like I'm making a decision.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:48

Well, well, we go we're gonna leave that one on the table right there. I want you out of the way. We're gonna leave it on the table, bro. Because I feel like we're at the same place. I know we've lost half of the people out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:03

That's a good man, yeah. That's a good topic.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:05

I I do I do understand what you're saying as far as I I I get your your your your your paradigm that you're that you're debating, but we're gonna leave that to the side. It shifted a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:17

Because remember, it started when I said big bang, everything rolled out exactly as it should. That's how that started, just so we know. All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

I understand that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:27

It got a little it got a little squirrely in there, but I still think all the points are valid. I I Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I still think I feel like we're all talking about the same thing.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:37

Well, if we if we still got we still have audience members out there who listen to our today.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:45

Tell us your thoughts on free will and destiny. Yeah, we'll see if it was destined that they wrote some stuff. So some church announcements. We just uh wrap up. So over the next, this is our last introduction podcast that we're gonna put out for us today. After this, we're gonna dive right into relationships. I think our next episode is Love and Money. So we're gonna get into relationships for the next couple weeks. We have a licensed professional therapist coming on with us, Dr. Todd. Uh Mr. Todd, he's a uh licensed professional therapist out of the Carolinas. Um and he is going to come with us and um sit with us and and kind of talk to us about therapy and mental health. And he's out of Huntsville, North Carolina, if that's what it is. And he's gonna sit with us and talk to us about therapy and any questions that we may have. If there's if anybody wants to come on and um if anybody wants to ask questions to the to the therapist, and you know, we submit it to uncle at unctalk. Uncle at unctalkpod.com. Talk is hard, brother. I know it. We will ask our questions to the good Mr. Todd, and I know he'll be great to have. I I just had a pre-call with him. I he's he's gonna be awesome uh to sit with us. So we'll do relationships over a couple weeks, we'll take a break, and then we'll jump back into whatever we're gonna jump back into, brothers. Sounds good, sounds good. And and you know, until then, I'm Jermaine.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:33

Joe from work, JMT.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:36

All right, I love you guys. All love, brothers.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:39

Peace and love. Love y'all.