We're Back: Life on Life's Terms, Sleep, Suicidal Thoughts and Why We Went Quiet

We've been gone for eight weeks. This is what happened.

In this episode Toby and Rudy get back in the seats and do what they always promised to do on More. Tell the truth about what's actually been going on. No polished comeback. No neat narrative. Just two blokes in recovery catching up honestly about one of the hardest stretches either of them has had since the podcast began.

Toby opens up about what happened in the weeks following the sleep episode. The not sleeping that continued regardless of everything he tried. The way exhaustion stopped becoming tiredness and became something far darker. The suicidal thoughts that came back, the fixation on the drive home, and the moment he knew something had to change. He talks about getting in the van, parking somewhere safe, and sleeping for eighteen hours straight. And about the slow three weeks it took to pull back out of it with the help of meetings, therapy, and people who kept showing up.

Rudy talks about launching a new business, the fine line between drive and addiction, and the realisation that the work was starting to consume him in familiar ways. He gets into changing medications, trialing ADHD meds again after a previous attempt that contributed to a breakdown, and what it feels like to finally set a boundary with someone and walk away with your self-worth intact. Properly intact. For maybe the first time.

There is also a motorbike, a broken down van, a ransacked Range store during a heatwave, a swimming pool that looked like a scene from Toy Story, a sound bath, a camp out, a lost land purchase, 700 fence posts, and a ten year old's birthday.

This is not a topic episode. It is a real one. The kind that reminds you why the podcast exists in the first place. Two people in recovery, being honest about the gap between the version of yourself you present to the world and what is actually going on underneath. The self-sacrifice that masquerades as virtue. The boundaries that feel terrifying to set and life-changing once you do. The sleep that still doesn't come easy. And the small, unglamorous, incremental business of staying well when life keeps arriving all at once.

If you've ever been too exhausted to care whether you wake up, or found yourself white-knuckling through the days on autopilot while everyone around you assumes you're fine, this one is for you.

More is hosted by Toby Lerone and Rudy Youngblood. Recorded in a single take. Unedited. Unfiltered.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:08

We live in a world that never stops offering more. More to buy, more to scroll, more to numb, and more to escape. Until the wanting becomes normal and stopping feels impossible.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

And somehow, the harder we chase it, the more burnt out, anxious, addicted, and disconnected we become.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

This is More, a podcast hosted by people with lived experience of addiction, mental health issues, trauma, and neurodiversity. Where the pursuit of more led us to rock bottom and has since led us to finding alternative ways to live.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Each week we have raw, honest conversations with each other and our guests, grounded in lived experience about what the chase takes from us and what's possible when you stop running.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Through these conversations, we hear a diverse collection of stories and experiences from those who have found an alternative way to exist in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

These conversations are recorded in a single take with no editing, so what you hear is real and unfiltered. Some names and places may be changed in order to protect those sharing their stories.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Welcome to more.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

And my name's Rudy.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

Yeah, we're back, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I know, with a little hiatus in the middle.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Yeah. Yeah, thanks for coming back. If you've come back, we've had probably eight weeks out.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Eight weeks out of the game. Yeah. Life on life's terms.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah, it's been a big well, but I've definitely been dealt a big slice of life on life's terms.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, checking. Yeah, checking in hair fever. Hair fevery. Hair fevery for the first time in my life. Feeling quite grounded and feeling motivated on the what the stuff that I've got going on that we'll probably chat about.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah, and glad to be back here, feeling grateful. What about you? Back in the saddle. Back in the saddle, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

I'm checking in. I'm a bit confused, a bit sort of tired. All all for positive reasons, but it's I've probably in the last 24 hours or so, I've probably no yeah, last two days, whatever. I've done like a year's worth of emotions for me. So I'm like burnt out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but but like but it's all good stuff. Yeah. It's all good stuff. So yeah, I'm feeling um yeah, a bit like that, but grateful that I do feel something. And yeah, grinded again. So yeah, good. But we've moved location, haven't we?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

We're at a new undisclosed top secret podcast studio. Podcast studio. In the middle of nature. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

With a little river running behind us.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

I wonder if the microphones will pick it up, but I can hear birds tweeting away. Yeah. It's bloody picturesque, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

It is, it's nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

Yeah. Shouldn't have the postman knocking on the door for once. Yeah. He always seems to time it, doesn't he? At your house.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

So yeah, yeah, all good. Put a f fresh energy. What where have you been? Where have I been?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Where haven't I been? What's been going on for me? I think eight weeks, you know, I launched a new business. Yeah. And that was I went to London to meet people, to catch up with people, get the brand out there, friends new and old. And then I went up to the Northeast, had some time with my siblings while working, my business partners up there, and seeing some friends. And you know, I think that has become all consuming. Yeah, I think it's becoming an addiction in itself.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Has it started positively?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, it's all gone positively, mate. And that's why I think I'm pushing on with it. Like I don't have any, it's not paying my bills, yeah, but all of the feedback is positive.

SPEAKER_04 5:01

Yeah, it's good. Well you yeah, you've got to start. I'm just getting in more and more in debt until it's start at the bottom. Yeah. See, we've got too much investors here.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

And so yeah, mate, it's all positive, man. It's like I wouldn't be doing it if it if anything felt not right, then I would have sacked it off now and went to the job market. But I don't I just don't want to work for anyone. Yeah, and and there's there's not a lot of the work that I do in my career. There's no work around here for me. So it's gone back to the city. London-based sort of yeah, or even Bristol, but there's not a lot in Bristol or Bath. And I guess I think I said the salary difference down here is like I don't know, I just can't I just can't bring myself morally to exchange my time for that. Yeah, it's a lot. And so it's kind of like, yeah, mate, it's just a bit of a tricky one, isn't it? It's like I do need to work, I've got bills to pay, but it's like at what cost, you know, I'd I'd rather just focus on launching the business properly.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Yeah, and you know, if it's it's better to do something right from the ground up and create and have a business and company you love than it is to sell your soul and just do it all to create somebody else's dream, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, yeah, and that's it, you know. I think that's it's giving me purpose and giving me a reason to get up. Yeah. But it's also giving me a reason to not leave the house. And so and it is quite tiring, you know, just doing the same pitch on Zoom calls or in per person, you know, over and over again. But I guess it's also the exciting part, you know, of reaching out and meeting new people and old people. So, yeah, mate, all of that is going well. What else have I been doing? I'm I'm in the middle of trying some new meds. Yeah. So last time I tried so I'm moving from I don't know then what they're called, the S S SRI.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Onto antidepressants. Yeah, yeah. Serotonin based. Onto a the different one that we just spoke about.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Yeah, so the same one that I'm on.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Diloxetine. Yeah, so it counters with the chronic pain in my spine and helps that as well. Because you said before the pain inhibitors.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so deloxetine is uh an antidepressant for people with chronic pain. Yeah. It was pitched to me by my doctor as it's usually prescribed to people with like organ failure.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

And stuff like that. So it does the like the mood thing as well, but it also has a pain inhibiting thing. Yeah. Something. However, he did try and explain to me how it works, but it's it's basically I don't think he knew was the gist I got from it. He was like, basically nobody knows, but it's kind of like a door or something. So yeah, so good for that. So you've been put onto that because of your pain as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah, yeah. And just because I've I've been on the well, I've been stuck feeling. I feel stable, but I also don't feel. Yeah. And so just like Hiatrist is like, look, you've been stable for a while now since getting home. Let's mess it up. Yeah, let's and I think I've shaved my head since the last Oh yeah. So my hair was coming out from the combo of meds that I was on as well.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Yeah, it was just falling out, wasn't it? Yeah, just like rapidly. So like our like avatars in the picture of the podcast are like vague kind of depictions of us, aren't they? Really Hollywood versions. Although mine looks like a bit South American. Which I'm not. But yeah, so so it yeah, so for people who have will listen to podcasts will yeah, so you have long hair and a beard.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

And then it started falling out. Rapidly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

And then you just whipped it all off.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, I had to I had some tests done at the doctors, and you know, all of the side effects of all of the meds. I take quite a lot of meds each day, and the side effects before them were hell loss. Hell with all of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, that meant that makes sense. But you know, maybe also it was my time. I've hit 40. I've had a good run. I've do you know what? I think you look better. I've never mate, I've never had a skinhead in my life. That was the most haunting thing. You always wear a hat anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no one ever sees it. Mate, you're looking well. Yeah, cheers, mate. And then uh yeah, I'm also trialling ADHD meds again. Obviously, last time I try I trialled them, I was manically depressed, and I I just become hyper focused on killing myself, not having a productive day. Yeah, and that was part of the downward, the rapid downward cycle that led me to treatment and losing touch with reality, so it's kind of like it's it feels weird, dude. It felt a bit like triggering to trial it the first day. Yeah. But I've not really felt any different from it. So it's kind of we started on a very small dose. Yeah. And now we're kind of built.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Two different types, is that right? Well, I mean it might be more than that, but I as I understand it, there's like a there's a stimulant and a non-stimulant.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah. And so I trialed the methanfeld diet diet last time. I don't know that I don't know the name of the it's very like so. Is that the stimulant one? That one was, yeah. And there's a this is another stimulant one called Elvanse. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. To have amazing effects and trying to get back into work and realizing how bad it is now that my mind just doesn't stop churning and churning and churning and like focusing. I was like, right, I'm stable, let's give it a go. Yeah. But it hasn't maybe it has, I just haven't felt it. I'm still getting chronic fatigue throughout the day, like after calls burning out and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

We're only on a small dose at the minute, so we'll see how it goes, you know, it's just for safety, just in case things did go tits up again.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

How have you how have you done with coming up on the coming up on I don't know if that's the correct term, but you know what I mean? The deluxe between.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

This is what I said to I just don't feel any different inside. I just feel dead inside.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

You haven't had any like weird uh makers for me coming on to them. I mean I'd never been on anything like that before in my life.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Like they I like I struggled. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

They knocked me around, like Yeah, no, I don't I don't have not felt anything. I think 'cause I've been taking all these other meds for so long now. It's just like if it's just like I'd two more a day and then take two away over time. There's no real change really, but I guess similar to that the cut yapin that I take, the what is it, an antipsychotic. If I miss that, mate, it's there's it's awful. Coming off hard drugs, man. It's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Yeah, that's what I get with deloxetine. If I if I miss more than one day, mate.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I've not missed one yet, thankfully.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

I'm like I'll know that. Yeah, but I it's not what it is not worth it. I just picked up my new prescription yesterday. I am like I get like, you know, like when you turn your head to look to the side. Imagine like you just saw a I don't know, pheasant.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

You get that like real delays, like, oh I I hate it. Yeah, everything's all sort of like a bit slow-mo-y, a bit bit Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Not cool. One of my mates said it's the ha it's one of the hardest things to get off them once we've unboarded them. Is it? I told him what I was going on. He he was like, mate, be careful because it's it's it is terrible.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's serious.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah, yeah, proper. Yeah, mate, and that that's it really. Been getting addicted to the gym.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Unhealth, very unhealthily. Like, mate, I don't really watch TV or anything, and it's kind of like I'd finish, close my laptop, and then I'm like, right, what am I gonna do? I try and listen to something, but uh the the thing in my mind is the gym, yeah, and then I can't settle until I've been.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

It's like but it's the same as what you say, you know, when we caught up on Sunday, you were like, You said you'd had McDonald's. I couldn't couldn't stop thinking about it until I had one, I couldn't settle now. Yeah, the McDonald's obsession, yeah, yeah. But yeah, mate, and that's that's it really. We had school holidays, my son turned 10 years old, we did some nice stuff. We went to double figures soccer ed in London, the charity football match for UNSF. Was that good? Yeah, it was good. It was the 20th anniversary.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

Maybe once we're famous, mate, you'll get called up for that. Yeah, yeah, get the boots out.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I could definitely have done a job on that pitch, let's just say that way. Yeah, okay. But it was the 20th anniversary, and it's set up by Robbie Williams, so he did a song at halftime. Oh, did he? What did he do? He sang Feel, you know, that one of his emotional ones. It's about you know that had the you know, it was all about the children and and around the world, all the conflict.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

You know what everyone wants to hear though, don't you? Yeah. Angels. Yeah. Yeah. Or uh what was that what was that root box? Rock DJ. Root box, yeah. The absolute absolutely taint.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So it was it was quite funny trying to who is he? Yeah, but I'm like mate, he's like um he's like the modern day Harry Styles, you know. He he left the biggest British band boy band in the world to go on his own. Yeah, and that's that's ultimately what he did. He became one of the most successful. He's not as good as Harry Styles.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

Yeah, I've never heard of him. He's in recovery, isn't he? Harry Styles? No, Robbie Williams. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the documentary on him? Did he did he on Netflix or something like that? A couple of years ago now, I want to say. It's pretty good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah. Yeah. So that that's all been good, really. Yeah, mate. What how about you? What's going on with you?

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Well, uh, how about your car situation? Car is fucked. You crashed it again?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Oh yeah, I did actually. Never crashed it and then crashed it. Maybe, maybe that is the ADHD med. I was thinking that actually. I was like, hmm. Oh, the med's working. I've got a speeding ticket and crashed my guy twice since I started taking that. But maybe that's just bad luck. What happened? I well, I I wouldn't say I crashed it badly. I crashed one mile an hour, I would say. Creeping out of a parking space. That's when you did it last time as well, isn't it? I was creeping around a corner in the school car park, yeah, and I just didn't leave enough space, and I just squashed the back of my car on a big minibus. There's literally no effect on the on the minibus, but all the mine looks like a um birkin frazzle. Yeah, so the car situation, it's got a speed and ticket going 35 miles an hour in a 30. Absolute animal breaking the speed of light. Is it the speed of light or the speed of sound?

SPEAKER_04 17:02

Whichever. Probably simultaneously. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

The vo the volume that I had absolute radio nineties on broke the speed of sound. The no repeat guarantee. Yeah. It'll do it too, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, the car the car situation is it is where it is. It's on its it's getting onto its last legs, it feels like.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I can feel it. It's like the the energy from it. I've been on my last legs a few times. Yeah. I can sense it when I'm in there.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

It's it's about to have a breakdown. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

It got me to bring it up to the northeast last two weeks ago. I'm back. But it's getting close to six figures on the mileage now.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

Is it, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

You think it's gonna crash out after that?

SPEAKER_04 17:55

That's it. It's a Peugeot, isn't it? They're only really good for that. Are they? Don't say that.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Oh we joke it. After the bloke in the garage next to the house, he was like, I need to get it serviced. I was like, Do you have to get a car serviced when it's this old? He was like, All of the filters in that Peugeot are like paper. He was like, I was like, oh, I haven't had a service since uh I've owned it. Yeah, no, I did because it was brand new at first. Well, not brand new, but it had like 7,000 miles.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

And so we for the first few years, I went even when I wasn't driving it, I got it serviced. Yeah. But now it hasn't been serviced. Didn't need to service it, do you? You know more than me, mate.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Yeah, servicing is key, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, that's good, mate. Been productive then.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Steady all you can ask, mate. Stable, yeah, sober and clean, tidy, present when I'm not on my laptop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good man. What about you? Let's hear what you've been doing.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

Fuck it now. Yeah. So fuck me. I mean, it's been absolutely hectic. Where to start? I've got to get there's there's certain things what I would like to have done. So the gap, I suppose, was kind of gap in podcasting was kind of initiated by me having a bit of a life on life's terms stuff going on. And then we get ended up being like half-termed in it, and then you were away for a week, and I was away for a week, and you were away for a week, and then but yeah, so some sort of like home stuff was going on. Yeah, and what would have been nice was to take everyone through it as we went through it, which was always our sort of promise, really, isn't it? You know, just to just to share share along the trials and tribulations. But yeah, I did I wasn't doing too well actually. After our last I think our last episode was the sleep episode.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yeah, and then you weren't sleeping.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

And I wasn't sleeping. Yeah. Well that continued despite my hardest efforts, and I started getting sort of suicidal obsession, not obsession, I ideation. Yeah, I think so. I don't know what that means, but probably That's what you're just thinking about her, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

You're not acting on her.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Yeah, I it's it sounds weird trying to say it out loud. I was so tired I'd rather be dead. I'd gone past tired, and then so basically what happens with me is everything becomes louder, everything becomes more exhausting, but I go through tiredness and I sort of come out the other side where I'm just on autopilot, which is where I've been for years before I came into recovery, years. I just literally was just on this autopilot, but without any of any distraction, without allowing myself the distractions which I used to obsess over, which kind of kept me out of being at home in my thoughts, yeah, where my thoughts are just like, what's the fucking point?

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Back then, now all I had was just my thoughts. So I was in this kind of really tricky situation where I wasn't sleeping and it wasn't getting any better, and I wasn't getting any chance to catch up, kids were unwell, and I'd have nightmares, and I'd have therapy sessions, and I'd have sort of like stuff from that coming up, and then issues in my relationship, and so on and so forth, and it was just it was just building and building. Yeah, and I it's I'm trying to think of of something that's a bit like, but I don't know. It's if anyone's ever ran done any serious sort of like running before, it's a bit like the feeling I used to get like the opposite of hitting the wall.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

So like when you hit when you hit the wall when you're running, it's like Fucking come on, no, I can't do this, I can't do this, and then all of a sudden, click, yeah, everything just becomes clear for me, anyway. Yeah, like everything goes into like HD, my body's just breathing and running on its own, and I'm able to just be like, oh wow, and I can look around and I can take stuff in. It's kind of like the opposite of that. It's kind of like all of a sudden it just goes tink, and I'm just in this state of just complete overwhelm, which is you know, it's burnout on lots of levels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

You know, it's it's like obviously some kind of lose that touch with reality when you're not sleeping, when it's totally, totally disillusioned, yeah. And disassociated. Yeah. Is my experience.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Yeah, I just and that's what I mean when I go like and click and then go onto that autopilot, that's it. I'm just not there. I'm not. I'm kind of but I'm just just to get through a day. I I I don't want to talk to anyone, I don't want to be nice to anyone, I don't want to do anything, I don't want to help anyone, I don't want to help myself, I don't want to, you know, I just survival. Can't yeah, can't bear to be around anything, anyone doing you know, just everything is an inconvenience.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

And then so yeah, so off the back of that, just being in that state, but without being able to sort of numb it, I I was yeah, I was having suicidal thoughts. For me, a lot of the time, the thoughts come on really strongly when I'm driving, and I've had to unsteer myself away from trees quite a few times, and I was getting that thing again, that sort of fixation, and I knew something had to change it. So sort of to change up some stuff at home and with my relationship, but without getting into that, basically I uh yeah, so I uh my my van has got like a bed in it, hasn't it? It's like my work van, but it's there's a bed in it for working away and and sort of odd nights away. Anyway, I sort of took myself out of the environment that I was in and got in the van and slept for like 18 hours straight. I just it was like four o'clock in the afternoon. And once I'd sort of said to myself, right, you're just gonna go and drive the van to somewhere that's safe, park up, get in the back and go to sleep. There's n you haven't got anything else to think about. You're sort of like you can breathe. I I could like physically walking round to the side door of the van, I could feel my eyes like like I was passing out, mate, you know, like the like everything was like darkening into the centre and that tunnel vision that's oh mate, and I was just and I was just I was just like oh man.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Did you have that eye mask on like you are for the sound bath on Sunday?

SPEAKER_04 24:53

No, that's my special sound bath eye mask. We'll get to that in a minute. But as we know, you can't catch up on sleep. Yeah. So I've been focus focusing a lot on sleep, and it's weird actually. Over the last couple of days, I've kind of been acknowledging in myself that like self-deprivation is kind of where I get some of my worth. Being able to sacrifice myself for others is what I sort of subconsciously deem to be like my thing, which obviously is is bad as we know now. And I've just, you know, I've sort of I've had an awareness of that, but like I've felt it creeping back in the past couple of days, just a little bit and just just noticing it. So yeah, I've been focusing on my sleep a lot, and I'm in a l a I sort of set a proper routine where you know where I couldn't be disturbed effectively, and it took me good few weeks, so I can probably three weeks to sort of pull out of that. Yeah. Doing lots of meetings, I upped my meetings, I upped my therapy, and yeah, came through it, and luckily I've got a lot of good people around me who were checking in on me and helping me out, sort of not talking me down, but you know, that just reassuring talk that you need. Yeah. So yeah, so that was that was chaos, but I feel right now. That's good. What else did I oh I went to Western Supermare? Was that? Yeah, that's been in the in the gap as well, isn't it? And did a share and met an interesting guy who we're potentially having on the podcast. Uh is gonna be our next guest. That's really exciting. Um, he's written two books, and I think he's about to release another one. Amazing Bloke in recovery has had a crazy life, and I think probably ticks every box that we sort of advocate for on here. So that was nice. That was nice just to get out of the area for a night because that is what's it like?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Is there lots of rehabs and stuff in Western seven months?

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, there's yeah, there's a lot there. It's frontline, but oh man. I mean just amazing people. Nothing inspires me more, I think. So I mean I'm uh grateful to to be asked to go and do a share. It just so happened that someone I know couldn't make it and they asked if I'd step in for them. And just it never ceases to amaze me the people in recovery, you know, be they one day in or 30 years in, you know, just absolutely amazing people. Yeah. Uh so yeah, I met a met a a lot of people then a lot of them were like really new in, and but like, you know, really I think you know, I felt like they were gonna get it, definitely. Every single person I met there was was really nice, but yeah, I was just really blown away by a couple of newcomers, yeah. Which you know that's what it's all about. Yeah, so that was a that was a real treat. Then we had half term, which was scorchy, absolutely rouge, wasn't it? Yeah, it was like like 40 degrees.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Felt it felt more, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

Oh my god, where so where I'm living now, where we're podcasting from now, well there's like what how far away is the river? 20 metres.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yeah, not over.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yeah, like a little stream, babbling river stream running by, and we're under some trees. So, like in the heat of the midday and the mockled sunlight, like just sort of laying the stream with the kids messing around, was absolutely the most therapeutic thing ever. Yeah. And the dogs jumping around in it, and yeah, it was it was absolutely mega. I think had I been anywhere else, I'd have been struggling quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was like 36 degrees, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, yeah. And it was my son's tenth birthday. We went, he he opted to go to a LIDO down the road.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Oh yeah. I bet it was busy, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Oh my, I had to go down early and get in the queue. Oh wow. And queue up people who've been queuing there for hours. No. And then got in the I was only in the wrong queue. And you can't pre-book or anything.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

You got to the front and he asked you if you wanted a kebab or something.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Well, someone forever down the queue was like, Oh, I'm gonna get the fast track ticket. And I was like, Oh, that's what I came for. They were like, the queue's on that other side. Um straight to the back of the queue again. So I I just wangled my way in, but then I had to go in the back. I had to wait for them when they let everyone in.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

Brits in it when there's like a little bit of sun.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah. Well, it's like a mate, it's a mega place because it's one of the only ones that I've seen where it's got like loads of lawn around it. Oh really? Oh, wait. So you can hang out so the boys could play football, go in and out of the pool, but like I don't God knows how much piss is in there.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Is it one that's like fresh water or whatever? No, no. I've been to one that's like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

But I met and it was like, Oh, do you want to get in are you gonna get in the pool? And I was like, walked around the edge, and it's like something out of black metal. You know, like when the claw comes down in Toy Story and they're all like, It's the claw. That's like just loads of kids' heads bobbing and bobbing around, like holding on to the side in the deep end. It's just like surreal, but they had a great time, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it was it was it was mental, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Yeah, it was like classic Brits. I went into oh what is it called? It used to be home base the range. Um because I was like, oh well, just pop in, maybe I'll get like a chair or something, like a nice chair to sit outside, you know, a reclining chair. Lounger. Yeah, because I've only got them or a hammock that that's what it was after, actually. Which I didn't want to order one online and miss the heat wave of two days. And the shelves were bare, brother. There wasn't a single barbecue left. Like the bit in there that's like the outdoors bit where it's like the tents, the airbeds, the sun loungers, all that sort of thing, like the cool boxes and the little things bat things you pull along the beach. It was like it'd be ransacked. And I went up to the woman on the till and I was like, Save me, save me like an hour searching. I was like, Do you have hammocks? And she said, Oh, they'll be gone. She was like, There's about 500 people here when we opened up this morning, really, and they just ransacked the place. I was like, What the hell's wrong with everyone? One day for one day. Like paddling balls. Jesus Christ, she was like, Paddling balls were like currency.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I met I remember doing that similar different time of the year though. I was like, Oh, Lord Rusled online because it snowed once. Yeah, yeah. And it came late and the snow had gone. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, at least we've got it for next year, and it's never snowed since it's no sense, it just rains. Yeah, yeah, that was that was about six years ago. Yeah, that's when when you helped me move house, I've got punched it in the recycling finally. Yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

Fuck yeah. Yeah, what else? So what else? Moved moved house, as it were. Yeah, and I've just been sort of doing the right thing by myself, putting my recovery on all fronts first, so that I can have a life rather than trying to put other people and other things first, because it you know, it turns out that if I'm not well, and it's that adage that we've been going on about for ages, you know, you gotta put the life mask, the oxygen mask on yourself first, yeah, so you can help others, you know. I we're not able to and again, like that what I was saying earlier, isn't it? That like helping others over yourself, that thing, you know, we're not we're not able to do that. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's just a default, isn't it? But it's it's the impact it has is it's bad. It's just I I think it's a learnt must be a learnt behaviour for me.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

I think I've witnessed a lot of it. I think my mum's like it actually. I think she she she would probably sacrifice herself to help others in for good for good, like thinking it's good in the same way that I used to think it was good.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

So it must be a learned behaviour, I think.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, a triad.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Yeah, but yeah, it carries a lot of weight, yeah. It can be fat, it can have some serious damage, cause some serious damage. Yeah, and then so yeah, I when I did a bit of work for local company, and then I did so again did a bit of sort of self-worth, which which is really good, actually. This is really good. This is quite recent. I mean, I'm not I'm not gonna name names or anything like that. It's only for the the concept that it's good. Is so I I did some work for a company, our sort of well I don't know, standards and morals didn't really uh align. I had a bit of a confrontational couple of confrontational phone calls, which I sort of put down to the classic, what I've always done is like, oh, you know, that's just what they're like. They'll come around, it's worth hanging in there for this, that, the other, you know, all this sort of like not g not giving myself any self-worth counteracting their help me out. What's the word I'm looking for? Their ego. Yeah, okay, yeah, I guess so. With yeah, but by just by sacrificing myself and not hold holding anyone else accountable, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah, I guess not having boundaries as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

Yeah, totally that. But being aware that I need to do that. So I felt a bit bad after it happened, and I was like, God, you know, this is and I and I said to myself, and I said to a friend, I was like, look, if if I have this sort of interaction again, I'm gonna have to separate ways because I I can't get back into those patterns and and and that that sort of thing again. Anyway, long story short, it sort of it happened again, and my sort of integrity was questioned, I guess, and a few other bits, and you know, luckily I I live an honest life now, which is amazing because when someone calls out your integrity or your or whatever, you instead of being like, No, and then but like inside being like, well, probably actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was actually like, I was actually like, no. No, that I ain't what? So I had a phone call with a a friend and sort of chatted it through, and I was like, look, this what do you think this is not sort of explained the situation? I was like, this isn't really like I don't want to rock the boat because that's my sort of like go-to, but I d I don't think I should let someone talk to me like that, you know, and f for me, and they were in agreement, and so I had to then go and have a conversation with this person, which like is horrible, yeah. That like the feeling in my stomach going to talk is like it's horrible, like my mouth's dry. I'm like fucking you know, I'm going to have a confrontation with somebody conflict, yeah, and they're gonna be like at me, yeah. And all I'm trying to do is just explain the way they're behaving, it isn't okay for me. And yeah, uh, so that was horrible. So how did it go? It just as you would imagine, really, yeah. I sort of just said, look, I'm sorry, but I the way I live now, I well actually know what I said was I've just been reflecting on the conversation we've just had, and it doesn't sit right with me what you said about this and this. And they were, you know, like all offended and whatnot. But then I just it was just stated my boundary. I was like, you know, in in my life now, I I can't be around this kind of sort of toxic relationship, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

How did that feel sticking a little boundary in?

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Do you know what? It here's the funny thing, right? It felt great. I nearly cried. Yeah, I f I was fucking welling up talking to this.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, and you're like, fuck this, is what I need.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

And he probably thought, fuck, he's gonna cry because he's got no job. And I was like, fuck it. I mean, I've I've struggled to say it, I've had to say it to quite a few people since just to get it out there, but just sticking up for myself. Yeah, fucking hell. I just having that having my own back, sticking up for myself, put putting a boundary in, saying no, saying this isn't okay with me. And I walked away as well. I said, it because you know they didn't apologize, they they had no interest in it, all they were just worried about was themselves, so literally just talking about themselves. And I said, That's okay. I'm just happy to to leave this here, and and and that's okay. Yeah, and I've that you know that's the first time I think I've stood up for myself. Yeah. To to you know, my own detriment, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it felt fucking amazing, mate. And I feel I feel weird today. Yeah. Because of it.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

I feel when was it? Yesterday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

I feel I feel like no day before. I feel like I feel healthier.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Yeah. Somehow. It's well as you're looking after yourself, aren't you and your mates? Yeah, mate. Yeah. That's a part of that is you know what your needs are now, yeah. And it's doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Yeah, exactly. The next right thing. It f it felt good. It just felt good for so many reasons, you know, standing up to someone who's effectively kind of trying to be a bully, really. Yeah. And and whether they're doing it deliberately or not, you know, who it but it doesn't matter. But it felt good on that front. It felt good on the front the self-worth. It's like you you're better than that, mate. Yeah. You know, I've kind of had my back. Yeah. Where where I'd normally just be like, nah, fucking suck it up, whatever. Yeah. Just swallow the rage. Go get go get fucking pissed after work. Yeah. Fucking just push it down, whatever. If it felt good for like there's just the inner child, mate. I think it feels like my inner child sort of like eyes brightened up a little bit. Uh, he's like, fucking hell. Fist bump. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah, so that was that was mad. That's quite big though as well.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Yeah, and that's what I mean. That's why I feel tired today, because like I'm just like that. Like, you know, I'm I'm driving back from there and I'm like crying. Yeah. Thinking about said no to someone, and I'm like, that's fucking ridiculous. And I ring my sponsor and he's like laughing at me, and he's like, you know, the classic sort of you get your the worst thing about recovery is you get your feeling back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best thing is you get your feelings back, and and all this sort of thing. And it was it was fucking amazing, mate. It was like it was a it was a proper moment, it was a milestone. But I think the last eight weeks has been that I've been putting sort of consistently boundaries in place and sticking by them and reaping the reward of it and doing another. And if it carries on like this, oh god, I might even be a normal person in sort of like 12 years.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Hitting more boundaries than a test match cricket player.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

Oh, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

What as a normal person?

SPEAKER_04 41:26

Yeah, exactly. I'll let you know when I find one.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Yeah. So that's good though, man. Good to hear.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Yeah, yeah. I was also I was trying to buy a bit of land. I can't remember if I've been said it on the podcast or not. I think I did. I've been trying to buy a bit of land. Solicitors have just I don't even know to explain it, just made it hard work. And anyway, it came to a bit of a head where essentially I would have to basically pay for a third party to come in because it was just it was just more money, it was more money, more money on top of more money, and and I got to the point where that was also taking my peace of mind. Yeah. That was also take taking up a huge part of my space. So I called time on that, which again was freeing. It was like it was horrible because I I had to when I'm set on summer. It's been going on for so long, yeah, yeah, like what, eight months. And when I'm set on summer, and it's hu it's huge, you know, it's like where I was gonna live, where I was gonna run my business from, and you know, it was it was my future, and when I'm that invested in something, it's very hard to get my brain out of it, very hard. So like I chewed it over and I chewed it over, and I got to the point where I was just like, it's money.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Again, which since being in recovery is something I can do because before I would have just fought and fought and paid more and fought more and lost more sleep and lost more hair and all this sort of thing, and just in letting it go. We come round out to shave it off, yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah, what how much do you charge?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Six quid for a buzzer.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Well, you use your beard trimmer. Yeah. I can't always say it. Yeah, uh just letting it go, just it was infuriating. I was emotional, you know, there's a loss, it was a loss of my future, all the plans I'd made, all the effort I'd put in, all the money I'd put in. I'd gone into so much there, you know, planning for boreholes and having surveys done, this and the other. Letting it go was hard, but fucking relieving. Yeah. In the end, I was just like Yeah, black man.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

What about the guy? That you got delivered?

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Yes, yeah. So yeah, I bought a park home that's still there. Is it? Oh, and like 700 fence posts and oh mate. You know, you know what, you know how it is. I just I was obsessed. So yeah, I've got to sort all that out, but I I know I know the guy who I'm buying the land off, and he's you know amazing human, and he just said that you don't have to sort anything out now. Just take him in a got a lot going on. Yeah. Uh we'll get it sorted. So that's cool. Yeah, so I went out and bought a motorbike.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Have you been out on it yet?

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Yeah. When I went and picked up my prescription on it yesterday. Talking about cars breaking down. Yeah. You know, my van breaks down sort of once a week. Yeah. But I uh so yeah, bought this new motorbike. It's the same bike as my last bike, but I haven't had a bike for a couple of years, and I didn't want to sell my last bike, but so I'm it's basically identical.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

Yamaha MT10, if anybody knows it out there. How is that? Yamaha call it the Ray of Darkness. The Ray of Darkness. Yeah, a hyper naked sports bike. They're they're incredible. I think they are the best all-round bike ever. Yamaha, if you want to do give me a sponsoring deal, sponsorship deal. I I couldn't stop talking about them. Yeah, but I won't I won't bore you on here. But yeah, absolutely amazing. Yeah, so uh I got a few bits on it that I've been putting on, but it's been raining, and then uh the sun was shining, and I was like, I've got a minute now.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Do you put all the levers on?

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Oh yeah, mate. Bone grinds an inch a mile per hour. Yeah. Oh my god, that's a sickening thought, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. You people who get on them things without levers are absolutely insane. Yeah. Absolutely insane. I seen No, do you want to do it? Me and my sort of like best mate did uh a road trip out to France, to my place in France, and then rode back and he binned it on the way back, but like in a 30, acting a twat, trying to impress some mopedders. And he literally must have been going 30 miles an hour and he dinged himself up. In leathers, mate. Yeah why you'd go hurtling round the roads and anything but topless. Yeah, with a pair of shorts and flip-flops on like doing America, no helmet. No, so yeah, so that that was a treat. Yeah, got so got my leathers on, pulled it outside, started it up, you know, letting it warm up, and then I was and then it just stopped, and I was like, Oh. So I got over to it, but I didn't fucking start. I was like, Oh, you kidding me? Couldn't get it to run. Really? And I was like, no, I've bought an absolute nail. It's only got like 2,000 miles on it. Jeff to ring the guy, for you bought it from no, I'm sure he wouldn't be interested. Well, you know what, it was going through my head. Well, he knew it was fucked, I've been scammed, you know, I'm an idiot, all this sort of shit, which who knows. But so, yeah, long story short, it was just the battery was a little bit low. But before I figured all that out, I took everything apart on it. So by the time I got it back together, I was like, my ride had turned into like basically 20 minutes to the pharmacy. Yeah, so I rode to the pharmacy back, which is like four miles or something. Yeah, but that was really nice. It was nice to get back out on the bike, yeah. Just it's really good for you, like really good for my mental health riding the bike, because you're you're with self, but you're also sort of like you're processing at quite a quick speed. Yeah, and it it's it's about the right speed for my brain to opt operate at. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So, like, you know, because you're having to like go through processes really quickly, it's kind of about right. So I feel more relaxed somehow buzzing around on a bike than I do sort of just sat still. Yeah. So that's cathartic, I suppose. Yeah, and then got back and was like, oh saying 10 minutes, go pick up my daughter. I've got to take her to gymnastics, jumped in the van, and the van went just done.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Did you take the battery charge out of the van and put it in the bike?

SPEAKER_04 48:44

Mate. So I'm like crawling round on the floor. I figured out what it was eventually, and like got my daughter, and I'm like covered in oil, go to this gymnastics thing, and there's like all these fancy people there. And I'm just like this grubby. But there we are, got her there, all was good. So yeah, but I mean that's what I've been up to, really. What did we do last this weekend?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

What you you did? I I just joined for a few hours. You did an N campo.

SPEAKER_04 49:17

Yeah, camp out. Yeah. Fucking love a campo. Bit of recovery.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

Bit of uh what do they call it? Fellowship.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Yeah. Yeah, it was alright.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

What I came and yeah, so you come in on the Sunday and did the same bath.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Yeah, and then the last meeting, the closing meeting.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

Yeah. Yeah, it was a good weekend. Uh annoyingly it rained a lot on the Saturday. So but yeah. Could it could have been a bit more I mean, if it was like it was the weekend before, the heat wave, Christ, it'd have been awesome. Yeah. I mean it was still good, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

The joys of living in Great Britain.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

Yeah. Oh, excuse me. I suppose the sea levels haven't risen. Is that what's going on? They were warming. Is it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

We can check the stream. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's up a bit, isn't it? Will be one it with the ice if the ice caps are melting. Yeah. Bloody Jeremy Clarkson. Yeah, it's only a matter of time, isn't it? Well knocked it, I think, when that intense heat, the extreme weather. Isn't it like I don't read the news, but you know, sometimes when you go on Google and you you click on the search and it tells you the trending stuff.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

And I clicked on it says like there's an El Nino coming this summer.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Oh, is that?

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Is that from like South America where it's that intense period of heat? Oh sound. It's like I I I just it was on some blink. Everyone should get a V8. Yeah. Man, I'm the I've broken every single bone in my body pretty much. I don't think. Is that V8 or motorbike?

SPEAKER_04 51:07

No, don't get a motorbike, mate.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Yeah, yeah, no, I wasn't the only motor once I've been on a moped, and then just do you know those the PW 50s when you're a kid. Little peewee. Yeah, they've all of those. What was the quads? They were for fortune, though. Are they? Yeah. And they've Cobra hundred quads cruising around up to No Go Duncan.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

Cruising around town. Yeah. Fucking Marlborough red sticking out your mouth. Dripping in dupe.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Cool water, so it was a big cool water. Cool water, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:43

Burberry Weekend, me. I found a bottle of it today, actually. Did you? In the garage in the workshop. I've been cleaning out the workshop, getting it ready for, you know, so the bike can have pride a place in the middle of the workshop.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

That's that where you keep it? Yeah. Yeah. So it'd just be like one of those. What's that movie with um Ryan Goslin? Um where he's the he's the he rubs the banks on the motorbike where they just drop the back. Drop the back on your van. You just roll out under the road. Just wheelie out.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

I thought about trying to get it to go on my van because I'm a bit of a nomad these days. But uh that poor van. I don't think it can take much more. Well that's cool, mate. I think yeah, that's a that's a good old catch-up. Well, for I hope someone tunes in.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

But yeah, we are. I think we're gonna be out of the um well, we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

Yeah. I mean, I've been asked by probably six or seven people why the fuck have we stopped podcasting?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I guess that's where it is, is it is where it is, isn't it? We've both got I think it's when it doesn't align. Yeah. But we've got a time now.

SPEAKER_04 52:59

So hopefully we can dedicated weekly episodes. Yeah. We'll try and get some doubles in where we can, so we've got a little backlog perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Yeah, yeah. And get back on some hot topics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Just getting to listen to all the shit we've been getting up to.

SPEAKER_04 53:14

Yeah, yeah. Well, if we thought we'd do a bit of a just uh sort of catch up in it. Sort of keep it you know, a bit of an exp explanation, but yeah, just keep it relaxed, keep us or get us warmed back into the seats. Yeah, and we'll uh we'll crack on with uh a topic soon. Yeah. And then as a look forward, yeah, guests. We've got one booked, the guy I was talking about earlier. We've not got a date settled, but we've agreed to do it. That's gonna be awesome. I think we may well even go to him for that because he's by the seaside. Oh, yeah, nice. By the sea. So that might be quite a nice little check. Road road on tour. On the back of the motorbike. Yeah, do you want to come on the back of the bike? With the podcast game. If you duct take me to you. You're about two foot taller than me.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

Be like that, foot dumb and dumb away. That's not funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:21

Oh gross. Okay, cool. Well, uh, yeah, let's let's wrap it up. Yeah, checking out, checking out, yeah. Fucking mate, actually, I feel good. I feel good that this has given me a bit more positivity. Just recapping what's been going on and the positive stuff. Yeah, I feel I feel good. Glad we're back in the seat, positive, excited for more.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah, same really. It's good to back. Just have a chat and go, you know, catch up again, get back in the swing of things. I think it's nice to do it. I'm enjoying it. Let's get back out.

SPEAKER_04 55:00

Yeah, that's right. Okay, guys, we'll see you soon. Take care.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

We wanted more stuff. We paid it cards.