Terraine - Reflection

In this episode, I’m joined by Terraine.

Terraine is a coach, podcaster, and someone who speaks openly about heartbreak, avoidance, family wounds, and the unconscious reasons we chase relationships in the first place.

What I liked about this conversation is that it never stayed surface level for very long. We started talking about relationships, but underneath it was really about safety. The need to belong. The need to feel chosen. The need to finally build the family or connection we never really had growing up.

Terraine speaks openly about growing up without stability and how that shaped the way he approached love. Not consciously. Not manipulatively. Just the way most of us do when we have unresolved shit sitting underneath us. We move toward what feels familiar, even when familiar hurts us.

That was probably the biggest thing this episode sat inside.

How many relationships are actually built from awareness?
And how many are built from wounds trying to find relief?

We talk about physical abuse, emotional safety, attachment styles, pornography, projection, narcissism, social media outrage, and the human tendency to constantly need someone else to blame for the discomfort we feel inside ourselves.

Not in a preachy way. Not as theory. As real human behaviour.

There is a part of this conversation where we move into accountability and that is where things got interesting for me. Because it is easy to point at parents, ex partners, childhood, trauma, society, or whatever else shaped us. And to be fair, a lot of those things genuinely do shape us. But eventually there comes a point where we have to ask:
What is my responsibility now?

Not what happened to me.
What am I continuing to repeat?

That is the shift this whole conversation keeps circling around.

We also speak a lot about modern relationships and the way people unconsciously recreate the same dynamic over and over with different faces. Different partner. Same argument. Same wound. Same ending.

And underneath all of it is usually the same thing. Fear.

Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of not being enough.
Fear of actually being seen.

This is not a conversation about perfect relationships or becoming some spiritually enlightened couple who never argues. It is about recognising your own patterns quickly enough that you stop destroying connection every time discomfort shows up.

The statement Terraine leaves for the next guest is this:

Creating memories are the gateway to happiness.

It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME. In Session with a Psychotherapist
Hosted by Chad Taylor. Author of It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME

No tips.
No fixing.
Just real conversations.

Terraine Brown can be found at:

https://www.behindtheshades.ca

WEBSITE

INSTAGRAM 

BOOK SALES: SHOPIFY

GROUPS/COURSES: PATREON

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

I'm Chad Taylor, psychotherapist and author of It's You, Oh Fuck, It's Me. No tips, no fixing, just real conversations. Today I've got Terrain with me. Terrain's actually in the past, guys. He's coming all the way from the USA and they're still in Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, I'm a trime traveler for those in other parts of the world today.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

How is it back there?

SPEAKER_01 0:30

It's going well so far. I'm on vacation, as I was sharing with you. So I'm enjoying my time here, and maybe I'll create my own back to the future moment. So I'm looking forward to this conversation with you today.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Exciting. So, Tarain, who the fuck are you? Tell us who you are.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

So I'll simplify it. Who am I? I'm a podcaster. I'm a coach. I'm catnip to the women out there. No, I'm just joking. I'm just Terene who's trying to figure things out and help people find healthy relationships like that. I was able to find them, hopefully with less heartache and less heartbreak, because I've been through some heartbreak and heartache, and definitely don't want anyone to experience any more of those. So that's who I am.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Let's go straight into it. Part of those heartbreaks are what gets us to where we are though, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

It does. It does. I remember I spent a whole decade, my friend. 10 years from 20s to 29 and 364 days. I graduated one day after that, once I turned 30, and I was like, thank the good Lord, no more heartbreak, because I needed to become the man that I knew I had to be, but I just didn't know how to do it. So it took me about 10 years to figure it out. And thank God I did because I'm so much better now.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Well, let me know. Let me know, and for anyone out there, what you did to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Oh, well, let me preface it by saying to all the ex-girlfriends watching this, I'm sorry. I love you guys, I'm just not in love with you guys anymore. But one thing that's tough. Some of the things that I did was that prom I was dating a girl leading up to prom, and I said, Okay, we're gonna be prom dates. Come prom. We broke up a couple months before prom, and then my new girlfriend wanted to go to prom with me. I didn't realize that they were friends. So the heartbreak would have been that do I keep the promise to the first one and break the heart of my current girlfriend, or do I not keep the promise to the first one and then keep the promise to this one? So what I did, I just didn't go. I played it safe. I was like, I'm not gonna disappoint anybody today. So I avoided heartbreak in that way, but just the decision was tough. But to be honest with you, one of the things that I learned from Heartbreak is I look at one of the girlfriends who earlier on in my life that I thought was gonna be the one I was gonna get married to. I met her family, she met my family. We set the expectation once we finished school, we're going to get together, live happily ever after. 2.5 kids, dog named Sparky, and a white picket fence. But it didn't work out because I realized that it wasn't you. Oh fuck, it's me in that moment. And when I realized that, I was like, I'm just not ready because I'm getting I want to get married for all the wrong reasons. So I had to really settle with that. And there's some heartbreak in that because we built it up and we set the expectation. So that's us that's one of my heartbreaks.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Okay. And do you what do you think those wrong reasons are why we want to get married? I've obviously got my interpretation of what I was trying to heal through that, but what do you think it is? What do you think? Why do we want the two and two and a half kids if we can even have half a kid? And why do we want the white picket fence and the that perfect kind of Hollywood sitcom laughter and full house, or what's that other one I used to watch anyway? Like what do you think the I suppose the pull towards that is? What do you think it is?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Well, that's what I was told that would bring happiness. I think many of us growing up, right? Like this is the expectations. You go to school, you graduate, you find someone in school, and you marry that person and you live happily happily ever after. But ultimately, it wasn't happily ever after, it was more married to children with Al Bundy, Peggy, and Bud and Kelly, right? It was like this disaster because so many of us peak in school. But for me, I grew up without my mother and my father. So what I wanted is I wanted a sense of family, and I wanted it so bad that if you gave me enough attention and validation, I was like, okay, let's get married. So I happened to pick the wrong person at that time. It was the right person because I was like, oh, we're getting along and she loves me and we're moving towards and we're in similar fields. But after like two years into that relationship, I was like, I can't build a future with this person. She's coming from she's a she's physically abusive. Her family's physically abusive, so that's her baseline. Do I want to create a family with someone that thinks physical abuse is normal? That was the struggle for me, right? So I was like, I have this dream that was told to me. I have this yearning for this family that I didn't have growing up. But then I look at my partner, I'm like, but you don't have the characteristics of someone I can build with because you remind me of what I'm trying to escape. And that was one of the reasons why I was like, okay, I need to regroup, rethink, and move forward.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

And when we talk about, say, physical abuse or emotional abuse or any sort of abuse, right? There's a let I think the number one thing we need in relationships is safety. Even when you talked before about the prom, right? Like in psychological terms, we'd call that having an avoidant attachment style in that moment, that we we just avoid the conflict so we run away because it's safer for us. It all comes back to safety. These things, these terms and stuff and the things we learn, it all comes back to safety. So it's amazing how many of us put up with unsafety because we want the white picket fence or because we don't want to admit that maybe that partner wasn't the right one for us. And it's crazy when you really look at it, I think, from a I think 50 years ago, we're almost had to be grateful with what we had because it was that kids are seen and not hurt. Like you get what you get, you don't get upset and just get on with it and don't complain, that's just the way it is. And I think we almost take that mindset into our relationships. And I was just thinking then when you were saying that, the image that come to my mind, it's like, so we're in school, the takeaway shop does the best fish and chips, or I don't know what you want to call, I don't know what you guys are into, or the milk bar does the best milkshake, and we just think we're 17 or 15 or whatever age we are, and we think, yeah, this is it. I can never experience a better milkshake out there than this. Therefore, I'm just gonna stay in my hometown and I'm gonna get a job around the corner, or I'm gonna get a job in the milk bar because I make the best milkshakes, and I've sort of found it. And I think there's no growth, in my opinion, there's no growth. It's through all these experiences that we have is where the growth comes from. And then I think when we're ready, then that partner for me anyway, that partner can come along, one that's on the same journey, and then it is that hustle of hey, how do we grow together? Rather than for me in my relationship, it's not how do I get the white picket fence, it's how do we evolve? How do you, as a human being, help me to evolve? And how do I hopefully help you to evolve, and we don't blame each other for those hard times in that evolution process.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I will 100% agree. I think so many of us are running away from a childhood that is unhealed, and we escape into the arms of someone else because maybe our arms aren't big enough for us to hug ourselves, to soothe ourselves. So I will absolutely agree. And that's where I was going. I was running away from a childhood that was unresolved until I took a moment and said, Trimm, what is it that you actually want? Do you want someone to fill a hole because you're not able to fill it, or do you want someone to fill a hole because you refuse to fill it? And I was refusing to fill it because what's easier, right? Do I look in the closet of my skeletons or do I just go in someone else's fit where it's like, oh, look at this, you have nice clothes, you have this, you have all this other thing. That's where my struggle was. And I just didn't understand it until I saw, to your point, something that was unsafe. I was like, this is place that's unsafe. It reminds me of what I'm leaving. So am I just substituting it because I'm getting maybe loving words, I'm getting sex, I'm getting attention, I'm getting kisses, I'm getting hugs. Or is it that I'm gonna say, hey, I identify this unsafe. I identify my past behind me, unsafe. Let's try a different path, which might be lonely, might be scary. My brain's not used to it. You may die. At least I'm gonna die trying instead of dying in misery. So that's exactly how I felt where I needed to remove the unsafe environment and stop going to what was comfortable, which was then safety, and find something that was safe.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Well said. And does that mean now in your relationship are you you're in a partnership now? I'm guessing. And so does that mean it's perfect, and you guys, so I'm guessing it's perfect, and you guys never ever have any issues, and you've got the white picket fence now.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Oh, I I should turn you up and so she can hear that as you're saying that, my friend. No, no, it's definitely not it's definitely not perfect. It's instead of perfect instead of aiming for perfection, I aim for progression. And that's what we walk to together. So her and I, we walk the path hand in hand. Sometimes I'm a little bit farther, but not far enough that I'm dragging her. Sometimes she's a little bit farther than me, but not dragging me. We're always in sync. You made an example that I really liked, and I shared this with a few people in when I interviewed you, where you said that everyone's at the same degrees, right? And you said that if you're a little off, you're going in separate directions. We are. We're both going towards the same goal. And if we need a course correction, one person's not doing it alone. We're doing it together. Hey, I see you staring a little to the left. Let me come with you to the left. Let's see what's out there, but we're gonna do it together. Then we come back on course. So there's nothing as perfection, my friend. Women and men would tell you that they're perfect. When you get in a healthy, successful relationship and you're loving it, you realize you love the perfections and the imperfections of the person you're with.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Definitely imperfectly perfect, right? And there's a lot of from what I've read, obviously, I'm not an American Indian, but what I've read is when they make a quilt, they actually sew an imperfection into the corner because for them it needs to have the imperfection in it to be perfect. So what you said before is something I use a lot with clients that when we meet, we're almost in our individual kayaks or canoes, whatever you want to call them. And it's for Australia, we might be going, well, yeah, we're both going to New Zealand. And we're so both of our compasses are aligned, just following on what you said. And then if one of our compasses even get one degree off, it's only got to be one degree. So we've got 365 of one person and 365 of another, right? So there's a lot of degrees there. There's 720 degrees of difference right there, of separation. If one of our compasses only get one degree off, and w we go for a period of time like that, sometimes it's too hard to come back together, or sometimes somebody hits New Zealand, the other person goes straight past and ends up fucking who knows where Africa or who knows where you'd end up. Depends on which side of New Zealand and depends up what the waves are doing and what the I think it really is about checking in and in sex life, in are you fulfilled with the sex life? Are you fulfilled in what we're watching on TV, the series we're watching, are you fulfilled in where we're walking, are you fulfilled in what we're eating? Like it's I think what happens is complacency comes in pretty quickly. And then I think the projection then of the imagination of what my life looks like. A bit like going straight into the big stuff, but like porn, right? Porn is generally for me, I don't watch it, but from clients I work with, it's a fantasy. But the problem is we do it long enough that the fantasy almost becomes reality, and then when our partners don't want to have it through them with Christian pans and a dwarf and a fucking horse, then all of a sudden there's something wrong with them because we've kind of we've and this is I guess the biggest problem in the world, and this is why I've written this book. Not because I want to make money off it, because I want to share it to the world that we think it's the other person, or we think it's the the Christians, or we think it's the at the moment, we think it's Iran, right? Iran is the enemy in a lot of places in the Western world. I don't live in Iran, I've never been to Iran. My partner is actually half Iranian. Her father grew up in Iran, but had to flee, obviously, because of the craziness going on all those years ago. But I I try and try and see things, there's plenty of women and children and innocent victims over there that get caught up in this shit. And if we just label someone as you're Iranian, therefore you're the enemy, it makes us come back to safety, makes us feel safer, but we're not really seeing it for what it is.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

So many people in this world of phrase like this the mind is a beautiful thing. But one of the concerns is that some people will live in their mind because their reality is something that they are struggling with for whatever the reason. So when it comes to finding something that's gonna make sense, they'll say that, well, to your point, this group of people is evil because it's gonna make me feel better, because maybe I'm oppressed by them in some way. Either I'm I was told I am or I feel that I am because I'm making up in my mind. The thing is, unfortunately, there's people out there, they need an oppressor. They need someone to combat against because their life is incomplete. You give them peace, they're on suicide watch. You give them chaos, they're like, oh, life is I feel good today because they're so used to the drama and the noise and everything else. So to your point, when someone says that, okay, this group of people, Iranians in this case, they're the enemy, okay, what do they do to you? Or if you if you label someone else, okay, what do they do to you? Well, it makes me feel safe because I know that whatever conflict energy inside of me, I can transfer it over to those group of people. So for example, I don't have the job that I want, it's because of this group of people. I'm not able to get the relationship that I want, it's this group of people. I don't have the house, I don't have the white picket friends, I don't have the children, I don't have the dog, it's because of this group of people. So there's no sense of accountability or responsibility because you're always blaming and you're always in a victim mentality. But if you were to remove that and say that I'm gonna take control of my power today, it's a different conversation because then you can open the door widely to the cause that holds your skeletons, let them out, and you'll be fine. It's scarier to accept yourself and all your failures than it is to admit that maybe the people that you're blaming everything on, they're not really thinking about you, and nor are they oppressing you in the way that you think they are.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, well said, and it's it's such, I think it's one of the biggest problems in the world. The the whole enemy and the whole patriarchy. I jumped on a podcast with a guy from America a week ago now, and amazing dude. I was in the public library and I had the big American flag in the background and had an amazing conversation. I really liked him, so we got a bit tense a few times because we were challenging each other. I went for three hours this podcast, it was live and it just kept going. And we're challenging each other on a lot of topics. And the ability to challenge each other and not get angry and not actually take it personally probably before we go on to the next bit, even that term, right? Like I take that personally. You said to me you don't like Australians, and I take that personally. In other words, I take your opinion and I make it about me, and then I get angry at you. And I'm not saying you said that, but I'm just using an example of that somebody says what what their own opinion, in other words, their own view of how they see the world, and I need to make it about me, because I'm so selfish and self-centered, and I'm so narcissistic that I make it about me. We had a joke before we pressed record that I was on a podcast about 20 minutes ago, and the lady was talking about interviewing a person that was a solopreneur. It was a woman who was an entrepreneur but she did it all on her own. And if you're listening to this podcast, I'm not uh having a dig, but I find it hard that any of us could do anything on our fucking own, really.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

No one no one can. I always say that you need at least one person, but I get the appeal of the identity because maybe this person or many others like her, or even you and I at one point, it was like the identity that I'm associated with, I don't necessarily like it, or it's not healthy, or it's not successful. And you raised a fantastic point because I see online, and maybe you've seen this as well, is when someone posts, I don't like men. I don't like women. I see it, I keep scrolling. They're not talking about me because they didn't say my name. But if you go in the comments of that post, oh, how can you say that? You're misogynistic, this is Miss Andrew, all these names. And it may be depending on what the person is saying, but why is it that someone who you don't know, this is your first interaction, how are they able to create such strong, unpleasant emotions in you? It's because something is not resolved. Maybe your parents said that. You're fat, ugly, and stupid. That's the three common things that a lot of kids hear, right? But it's interesting how identity has shaped our culture over the last couple of years, and how for some people have such a strong hold where they want to identify with something, and if you challenge that identity, no matter how loosely it fits to them, they get very, very angry.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? It's like we here we are in Australia at the moment, we've got a crisis of fuel and oil and all this sort of stuff, right? So it's I'm sure I don't know what's happening in the rest of the world. I try and stay away from the news because I'm the biggest the biggest things that affect me in my life are my relationship with my partner, the things with my clients, my daughter, how my daughter's going at school, as in not academically, more socially. I know this sounds horrible, but I don't really give a fuck how she's going at school academically because that will come later on. I didn't even I didn't even really finish school. I finished, but with in Australia you there's zero to a hundred, like I think they used to call it a tertiary something requirement, entry requirement, and you get a number of zero to a hundred. Well, if you get under fifteen, they just on your card it says zero to fifteen, under fifteen. So if you get three or nine or fourteen, you just get under fifteen, and that was my story. And I've I've never really longed for anything. I've been pretty successful, but I've also believed in myself. If I fail at something, it's not really your fault, right? It's well it's not real, it's not your fault at all. And sometimes it's that the universe doesn't want me to succeed in that because I'm meant to be doing something else in my life. This is the biggest thing too. And there's a really good book. And right, Bruce Bruce Perry, I love this little short video on YouTube I send it to a lot of my clients where he virtually says we prefer the certainty of misery to the misery of uncertainty. And that's why we repeat the same behaviours in our whole lives. That's why we end up having partners that are like our parental upbringing, or we have relationships that remind us of our last partner, and then we blame them that they're exactly the same. Because what we're not seeing is why did we choose that person? We'll switch gears in a minute, but what you just said then it's something I've got to work on because I am really challenging. I get really I have a strong reaction to people online almost making a business model out of being a narcissistic recovery coach and they'll tell you our far boys to deal with a narcissistic wife. And and I'm in the comments, I'm a bit provocative. I'm like, hey dude, why don't you tell me why you thought it was a good idea to choose her in the first place? That's the work I want to get. If we choose the narcissistic partner, man, woman, well it doesn't really matter. It's about me. It's not really about them. I get that we can be blindsided sometimes, but there's always a there's always a path along the way where you spoke about just before where it's like, hang on a minute, this person maybe isn't going in the same direction as me. She's physically abusive, he's cheating on me. He is emotionally abusive, she's financially abusive, doesn't really matter what it is, right? And what do I do about it rather than keep suffering it so I can almost go and whinge to my friends about it and get online and whinge about it and make what is it about me that had to stay with that person? Not what are they doing to me? Because if we look at narcissism and empathy, they're on a continuum. They're not two individual things. All of us are narcissistic at times and empathetic at times, unless we're a psychopath. Two percent of the population are psychopaths and they don't feel empathy. It's actually not their fault. It's really not their fault. I know that sounds horrible, but it's not. It is not their fault. It's a wiring in the brain where on a brain scan it can show them that they're psychopathic, right? They don't feel empathy, they don't have the ability to feel empathy. Doesn't mean they're all nasty people either. Just because they can't feel empathy doesn't mean they take satisfaction out of hurting people. It just means they don't feel empathy. So when you have an argument with them, they don't feel bad for you one bit.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

It's not their fault. You mentioned your relationship, and that should be the main focus of every single person. That's is the goal of life. So you achieving that is a fantastic accomplishment because unfortunately, not everyone does. Those who do, they're blessed. Those who don't, we're trying to get them there. A second thing is I think when it comes to narcissism, you and I are roughly around the same age. What that word has replaced, what that word has done, is replace the 90s term of saying a girl is crazy and the guy's a deadbeat. You don't hear that anymore. All you hear is that she's a narcissist, he's a narcissist. It's an identity put on by others to make us feel better. Simply put. Are there narcissists out there? Did those who use the term loosely know that you actually have to be diagnosed with that? Probably not.

unknown 23:58

Right?

SPEAKER_01 23:59

There's a criteria. You can't just wake up one day, well, he didn't text me in the morning, he's a narcissist. It's not that easy.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Or he broke up with me, or she broke up with me because so therefore they're narcissistic. In other words, we're responsible for our own emotions. And for anyone out there, I'm sure they know where you look at where that term comes from. It comes from a Greek god named narcissist, narcissist without the tea, that the story goes, and I'm giving you the quick version, not the book version, that he got to a pond or a stream to have some water, and as he was drinking the water, he got so captivated by his own reflection and was so in love with himself that he almost died. He stayed there until he died, he didn't go and get food, he didn't do anything. He was absolutely obsessed and captivated by his own reflection that he died there in that same spot. Well, that's all of us at times, right? I'm not a Christian, but I love there's a Bible quote, there's a Jesus quote that says, Be as cunning as a serpent and as loving as a dove. This was said 2,000 years ago by someone a lot smarter than me. The Buddha talked about these sorts of things as well, right? Like that if we become if you're an empath out there, you're leaving yourself wide open. If you know, where's the best place to be when the punch is thrown? Not there. Get yourself out of there. If you've had five partners that have been abusive, there's a common denominator here, and it isn't them. And that's fucking hard to hear. And I write about this in my book. That it's not them. What in my book stood out for you the most? Well, it'd be that part where it's not them, it's me.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

One of the mirror. Right? That we look in every day when we're brushing our teeth, washing our face, that mirror it shows more than what is on our face. It shows inside of us, right? Some people can see it, some people can't, some people refuse to see it. To your point, right? If you've had five relationships and they've all failed and they're similar in behavior, the partner that you've dated, who is the problem? Them or you? Because here's the thing: I bet you find someone that's chronically single. They'll blame their partners fine. Now go ask their partners, majority of them will probably be in a relationship after you. So why is it that the people that you're blaming for your inability to get married or get a healthy relationship, why are they able to find it without you? It is always going to be us. Are we worthy for a healthy relationship? Because you have to be worthy of it. You can't just sit back and say, I am the table, come to me, peasants, and marry me. Those days are over with. The second thing is, what does healing look like for you? Is it you sitting on the sofa eating bonbons like your Peggy Bundy, waiting for Al to come home with a paycheck? Or is it that you're out there doing the work and what does that look like? And the third thing that I'll challenge people is stop blaming other people for your outcomes in life. When we're children and our parents were our caretakers, fine. I was homeless when I was five years old because of my mother and father's poor decisions. I didn't have food in my belly because my mother and father couldn't provide. But once you're 20, 30, 40, 50 year old, how long are you going to continue to blame your childhood experiences? Is it traumatic? Yes. But you have a choice on how you're going to live life after the trauma because you didn't have a choice to go through it. That's the difference. So I 100% agree that it's not them, it's you. Look inside and move forward.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Well said. So what I do is the last guest leaves something for the next guest. And the last guest I had was David. It was a very interesting conversation with David, and he left you. Dreams are possible. What happens when you hear that? What happens in you when you hear that statement?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Thank you, David, for that. Dreams are possible. Well, to me, dreams are an act of love. And when you dream big, you love big. So when you love big, you show that love is possible. And when you take those big dreams and you share with the rest of the world, you're loving them and showing them that they can be loved and that being loved is possible.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I love that. So these thanks, David, and thanks, Tereng, for expanding on that because it was a bit of a different one. Usually I get a question or something left for the next guest, and that one was so I like it's nice to hear how people interpret different things because nobody knows who's like I'm not gonna tell you, I don't even know who's coming on next. So whatever you leave is just for them. But where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Yeah, so people can find me at facebook.com slash behind the shades. Also, you can go to my website www.behindtheShades.ca. And if you quote this interview, you would get one free special. And the third thing is that if you guys want to check out my podcast, it is the Behind the Shades show on all platforms.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

And I loved being on your show. This is how we've got to hear, right? The podcast is amazing. We get to meet so many amazing people, and almost where you want to become a lot of them, you want to become friends with them. But this was one with you where it was like I got off and said to my partner that night, like about this amazing connection and with terrain. Like we're two people that would never have met before technology. So technology gets a bad rat, but I think for these sorts of things, it gives us no excuse not to evolve, right? Because you can podcasts are free, podcasts cost nothing. Not saying you need to do other work on top of that. But while you're driving in your car, rather than yell at the driver that just cut you off, listen to a fucking podcast that listen to Terence podcast and and get some wisdom. So we're at a point in this show where you're gonna leave something for the next guest, a statement, a question, one line, something small and sharp that I can use. I usually hit them at the start of the the start, but we went a bit different today because I was a bit excited to see her.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Creating memories are the gateway to happiness. That is what I leave for the next guest.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

I love that. Creating memories are the gateway to happiness. And we're gonna leave it there.