Rosemary - Overthinking

In this episode, I’m joined by Rosemary Gattuso.

Rosemary is a family mediator, counsellor, and author of It’s Not You. It’s Me. A Chronic Overthinker’s Guide to Self Reflection. The moment I saw the title of her book, I knew this conversation was going to head somewhere interesting.

This episode sits inside conflict, accountability, overthinking, and the way relationships slowly break down when people become more focused on defending themselves than understanding each other.

Rosemary comes from years of sitting between separating couples and families in conflict. Real people navigating betrayal, resentment, parenting, anger, and heartbreak while trying to untangle lives that have become emotionally fused together.

What I found interesting in this conversation was how often people become trapped inside their own perspective. The need to prove they are right. The need to explain themselves. The need to make the other person the villain so they can avoid sitting in their own discomfort.

We talk a lot about identity in this episode. How pain can quietly become part of who we think we are. How overthinking creates the illusion of control while actually keeping people stuck. And how exhausting life becomes when every interaction is filtered through defence, fear, or past wounds.

There is also a big part of this conversation around ownership.

Not self blame.
Not shame.
Ownership.

The ability to stop asking:
Who caused this?

And start asking:
What part of this belongs to me?

Rosemary also speaks about something that landed heavily for me from her work. The difference between focusing on what’s wrong and focusing on what’s strong. That simple shift changes how people move through conflict, relationships, parenting, and even the way they see themselves.

We also get into vulnerability and the way people confuse it with emotional dumping. Oversharing. Bleeding unresolved pain onto strangers and calling it connection. That part hit home for me personally because I know exactly what it looks like to unconsciously use other people as emotional containers while believing you are simply being open.

There is a fascinating tension throughout this whole conversation between awareness and identity. Between genuinely helping people and unconsciously hiding behind the role of therapist, mediator, helper, or healer.

This is not a conversation about becoming perfect or emotionally evolved.

It is about noticing where we stay trapped in our own narrative long enough to keep repeating the same patterns with different people.

The question Rosemary leaves for the next guest is this:

Is my focus on what’s wrong or what’s strong?

It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME. In Session with a Psychotherapist
Hosted by Chad Taylor. Author of It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME

No tips.
No fixing.
Just real conversations.

Rosemary Gattuso can be found at;

https://www.rosemarygattuso.com/

https://www.instagram.com/rosemarygattuso/

WEBSITE

INSTAGRAM 

BOOK SALES: SHOPIFY

GROUPS/COURSES: PATREON

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I'm Chad Taylor, psychotherapist, author of It's You, Oh Fuck, It's Me. No tips, no Fixing, just real conversations. So today I've got Rosemary Gattuso with us. So Rosemary, I'm gonna go straight into this. Who the fuck are you? For people out there that don't know you.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Sure. My name is Rosemary Gattusso, and I'm originally a family mediator and counsellor. And now going into becoming a self-help writer. And I guess that's what attracted me to contacting you because our books have similar names. My book is called It's Not You, It's Me, A Chronic Overthinker's Guide to Self-Reflection. So when I saw your book, I thought that's it, we have to connect.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Definitely. And it's nice to build up people in this space, right? Rather than be fearful and worry about competition. This is what I say. There's nine billion, almost nine billion human beings on the planet, right? We all need as much help as we can.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

And I think there's not many ideas that haven't already been expressed. It's just that we each bring our own individuality to it and emphasize maybe a different way or what's been important to us or what's helped us. So it's always helpful and useful to just connect and share.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

And if anybody thinks that they've created something, they may have. But like you said, all spiritual teachings, all religious teachings, they're all we're all almost saying the same thing, really. It's just a different way of putting a spin on it, which hopefully then resonates to the right people. And that's what I wrote in the start of my book. That none of what I've put in there is I've created or I've invented. It's just I've been able to put my own spin on it and hopefully say it in my own language. That, as you can tell, is pretty blunt, right? I guess we've got a different style of writing.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yes, it's interesting because you bring your experience to your writing, and I, you know, bring mine. So mine is through the lens of a family mediator dealing with people in conflict every day with my interests in strengths-based theory or strength-based um approach approaches and being trauma-informed and and you know, that sort of um realm. But there's so many overlays in our book and the way we work because it's essentially about taking ownership and being empowered.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Definitely. And seeing, I think what I learned for conflict resolution when I did uni was really learning to take on that, almost put on the VR headset of the other person and see how they might be experiencing this conflict. And that's very hard to do. I guess probably in your field a lot the same as mine. But when you're doing family mediation where there's a lot of hurt and pain and separation, and for anybody out there that doesn't know what a family mediator is, do you want to give them a quick spiel on what that is?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, well, essentially I would meet with separating couples and help facilitate the conversation that they have around who does what and where, and particularly when there's children, you know, the responsibilities around children and how they co-parent together. And so my role is not to take sides, it's really to be independent and and help guide that that conversation, make it happen. And it is sometimes sitting through very heated and very contentious topics. And I guess that's where I noticed that there were trends in the way that people manage the conflict that could almost predict the outcome. And it was about which lens they viewed themselves and the scenario with. And because I use a strength-based approach, I classify that as whether or not they go towards the path of what's wrong or what's wrong. So that's the the the theory behind strengths-based practices, that you have those two options. And so I noticed in conflict that where the focus was on what's wrong, past hurts, what they didn't do or how they were harmed, it was harder to then move forward and make arrangements and I guess process what was happening. Whereas those who went down the path of what's strong, where they could be more forgiving and they were able to then negotiate future arrangements without letting past hurts keep them in the past. So, and that was a much smoother process. And so that's that's the lens that I bring to conflict resolution and also the way that we reflect and and reflect on ourselves and our scenarios that allows us to own and be empowered by our situation rather than be a victim of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

And it's so refreshing to hear that because we live in a world full of victims at the moment, and I say that pretty bluntly. There's a lot of people out there making a business model out of being a victim. And for anyone out there, statistically they say 3% of the world are narcissistic, and my joke is 97% of people believe that they've married one or been in a relationship with one, and we're either super unlucky, yeah, or we're making bad choices, or the universe is giving them a lesson. But this is this thing, I'm pretty provocative on social media because it it's something I've probably got to work on because there's something in me, and I think reading my book, you'll see that I got so trapped in being a victim through my childhood programming that it became my identity, and so I suppose I'm trying to wake these people up. And the way I got woken up was not gently, it was through my mentor who I know loved me, and I write about him in the book, who he almost had to throw a bucket of water on me to smack to snap me out of how because that victim mentality had taken hold of me.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah, and how fortunate was it for you that you did have a mentor, someone to give you that guidance, someone that you could look up to and talk to? Because I guess the reality is for many people they don't have that one person.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

No, and I think for me, that's why I love psychotherapy model rather than I guess even the 10-session psychology model in Australia, because the majority of my clients would be anywhere from three to five years, they're starting off maybe weekly or fortnightly and then monthly. My sort of thing to them is if we there's 8,760 hours in a year. So if we come to therapy once a month and say we miss Christmas, you've got 11 hours out of 8,760. It's a pretty good ratio for your life to be a bit more balanced. And if I could go to the gym 11 hours in a year and still be pretty fit, I'd be pretty stoked. Once you've done the hard work and really understood, because I think we all need somebody, I still go to therapy now. Because I think that I there's so many people I've seen in this field that almost become they lose their humility and they become the top of the food chain in their own mind. So the egocentricity ends up rebuilding and just wearing the suit of a professional or of whatever identity they take on.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Because it can be addictive to be able to help people and to get that continuous gratitude from people who are coming to you for your help. And that's in mental health or in many other fields, it's not just that. But you make a good point about the sessions not being enough in kind of the traditional model or what might be funded for in if you look at that process, or even people, you know, I've got colleagues working in organizations, friends, and it's never enough. No, they'll be told, Why are you seeing them so often? Why are they what's wrong? It's like, well, it's a process, you can't put a time on it.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, it was normal behavior to have this, right? It was normal part of this sort of thing in our world, where in our life where we went to somebody who wasn't our mum or our sister or our brother or our partner, and we spoke, whether it was a shamanesse or a medicine woman or a medicine man or whatever it might have been. We always had someone we went to that wasn't that really had an unbiased opinion.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, that's right. I guess we're we've evolved to be a smaller, a smaller society where it's just individuals against each other.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, and we won't go too far down that path because we're not going to change the world in one podcast. But where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 8:42

The best place to find me is on social media or on my website, rosemarygatusso.com or just rosemarygatuso on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, and also the book. Where can they find your book?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

On all online, you know, Amazon on my website, or just ask your library or your bookseller for it. They'll be able to get it in if they don't have it.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

That's exciting. And I'll put that in the show notes. I just like to get that done now in case people don't listen to the end in case they're sick of my voice.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Oh, cool. I thought it was a hint you're wrapping me up.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Not at all. So I do this thing on this podcast where the last guest leaves something for the next guest. The last guest I had was Terrain. He was from the US of A Behind the Shades podcast. He was a coach and relationship coach. And it's usually a question or a statement. And he left creating memories are the gateway to happiness. And I suppose what happens to you when you hear that.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

I like that because I mean, you're talking about good memories, then uh they you have this um a complete embodied experience when you look back on, you know, a memory that you're fond of, a scenario, a relationship, or whatever it is, and it can almost bring you back there. So I guess in that sense, yeah, it can be the gateway to happiness because when you reflect on a happy event, you can almost feel that. And there's probably some scientific explanation for it that I just don't know. But that's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

How does that show up in your world? Like when you hear that, what's a memory, a created memory for you that you think of?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Oh, just you know, lots of nice holidays and family time and even just you know, catching up with friends. Um, like I know this is a bit random, but um Eurovision is coming up in May, and I normally have a party for it. And I haven't had it for I didn't do it last year or the year before. And I've just been thinking about it. Oh, wouldn't it be nice to have the party? Remember how, you know, it just got me thinking about the food, the music, dressing up and things like that. So that's really in my mind. So I'm just giving away that I'm a Eurovision fan.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, and and funny enough, my partner grew up in Basel in Switzerland, and last year when we went over there in May, it was happening in Basel. So the Eurovision, the Eurovision was happening, and my kids, my daughters got into it a bit, and it was definitely nothing that I was that much into. But it was nice to see the people dressed up and the movement, and it was pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah. Oh wow, isn't that funny how my memory has triggered your memory?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

And this is the thing, it's a bit like I say to people when they say, Let's just forget about that now, if there's been an affair or in a relationship or the conflict you're talking about. We can't just forget about it. We don't just like, okay, we'll just put that over there. Because it's I say to people, like my previous partners or girlfriends, or whatever car they drove, if I see one of those now, I will probably think about them for a split second. Doesn't mean I want to be with them or I hate them, or I've got any angst towards them, or I I wish they were still here. But I think, or if I go to a restaurant, like we we talked about, that creating memories. But if I go somewhere, I think about, oh wow, what about that song that I remember when we're in Rome with my partner last year, or so I think what isn't talked about enough is we can't just block things out, but also I don't think it's good to blurt them out either. I think it's learning how to process when these things come up in us. Because I guess for me it goes in and then comes back out, right? All feelings generally go bypass through the mind first. That's my so it's almost filters through the mind in general. Unless it's if it's a smell or a song or something, we've heard it through the ears, but it's got to be filtered through the senses, right? For us to have an understanding of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

And then I guess we all process or manage it in a different way, and it's for us to find what works for us.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Definitely. So my book, what for my book landed for you? I really appreciate you when we got the same book name taking a look as well. Because yeah, I'm sure it's very different.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yeah, I did write some notes, and I guess one of the first things that jumped out for me was this uh I I think it was actually in the introduction of your book, talking about vulnerability versus oversharing, because I think vulnerability is a hot topic and it gets misunderstood and misused as well. So I was um really excited that you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Can you elaborate on that a bit for people out there?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah, so well, I I guess I I wrote down vulnerability versus oversharing in my notes um for this. I I guess uh I don't know if mix-up is the same thing, is is the right word, but there's so much emphasis on being vulnerable, and you have to be vulnerable in relationship and vulnerable, and that's a form of connection and a form of love, or showing that you trust that person. But then people then jump into this, we've just met, or I'm talking to someone on the train, and there's just constant oversharing, and there's that mix-up between, well, I'm just being vulnerable, you know. And I did have clients where the, you know, um the the couple were actually arguing over what vulnerability was because one wanted more vulnerability and had a very specific idea of what that looked like, but the other partner um didn't see it that way, and so it caused so much conflict in this because it's like, well, if you're not vulnerable with me, then it means you don't love me or you don't want to be with me. So that really um resonated with me, this idea of focus on being vulnerable, but then what it actually is and what it looks like um can be overused and misunderstood and is different for everyone anyway.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

So I thought that was a good uh starting point where you were sharing your own experience.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, and I think looking back now, even when I was a plumber, I think a lot of my poor clients, they should have I should have been paying them for therapy rather than them paying me for plumbing, and that's the truth. And I yeah, a bit like when I if you said a bus or a train, I think you said a train, and yeah, the same example, like I'll have things where I was about probably a year ago now, we're in line at Aldi at the for anyone that's listening from overseas, the supermarket chain, and we're in line and just waiting to pay for our groceries. And I was with my daughter, and I said to the person in front of me, oh, how you going today, mate? And then he said, Oh, how much time you got? Let me tell you. And then the next minute he for the forever, however long it took to get the groceries through, and even then, still, while he's trying to put his groceries through and pay the lady, he's unloading on me all about this kid moved here and his son's got special needs, and just right into and I didn't mind, yeah, it wasn't really the right, and I asked the question, so it's not really his fault. I asked how he was going. So, in a way, I've got to look at my part in it. But the funny thing was when we got outside, my daughter said, Who was that dad? And my response was, I have no idea. Yeah, so this is this exact thing that we do shamelessly. I'm gonna be transparent here. I've watched a few episodes of Mass this year, right? Because of my clients saying you've got to watch it, you've got to watch it. And I feel so much for those people on there of how I'm well, and I know that's not society as a whole, but I do see most relationships now getting formed on almost a pseudo-therapeutic connection where I've gone through childhood trauma, I've gone through previous relationships, and then I meet you on Tinder or I meet you wherever I meet you, and I'm not going to therapy because it's not really the dumb thing here, long-term therapy in Australia. And then I start trying to process my trauma with you. And and and it's hard, even when you know the fact, like me and my partner when we met, because we're both therapists, yeah, we had to pretty quickly it was like, hey, like let's let's just come back to a bit more fun and let's take this stuff that's coming up for us to our therapists independently, as in me go to mine and her go to hers.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Because I didn't want to, I don't want a client, I want a lover, right? I don't want a friend. I sorry, I don't want I want a c if I've got a client, you're a client, if you're a friend, you're a friend. It's very hard to just sort of change those dynamics interchangeably. Yeah. So it's good that and anything else for you that I know you said you've got notes, which I'm excited, right? If someone's made notes in my book, it's like obviously stimulated something.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, I liked um you mentioned that dysfunction has been normalized and called ambition. And I guess that's where, you know, and I've also written escapism, escape escapism dressed as a lifestyle. And um, and particularly social media, entrepreneurs on social media, that was because essentially it's anytime we rely on external stimulus to feed our sense of self. You know, so I kind of like that normalized um dysfunction, and I guess that also highlights in your book how um how prevalent uh how prevalent this is um not taking accountability is in society because it's disguised as something else, and there's so many um uh temptations out there for us to strive to that really aren't doing ourselves any favor, and it's really comparing ourselves to others or um but doesn't focus on our true self and what we like and what we're good at as well and what we want to do. It's just um you know putting ourselves in a situation that continually um oh what's the word I'm looking for? I know the word, it's not coming out. It continually perpetuates whatever it is inside us that needs to be that is asking to be resolved or is asking for healing or transformation or change. I guess that's how I took that, normalize the dysfunction. So if the dysfunction is that I put all my energy and time into work and don't put any time in relationships and family and anything else that's personal, then that's been normalized. And I, you know, might keep pursuing that. Um and and it's you know, I'm ambitious, I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm going to show everyone on social media what I what I'm doing. But I guess it's sort of missing the point and feeding the potential disappointment that that is really at this at the heart of it because why is it that there's this desire to keep being better and better and better and better? I think it's if it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah, yeah, we're all seeking love, right? I don't think we got love properly, even in the best homes. I think it's that insecurity should be called out of security, really. I think I don't think people really understand what the term insecurity means, being that yeah, we don't have it, it's it's a lack of insecurity, it's a lack of inner security where we are defined upon what car we drive, we're defined upon what suburb we live in, we're defined upon what title we have. And it's easy to hide behind those things. There was a new label I heard this morning on a podcast. A lady in America was telling me that she'd just interviewed somebody who was a solopreneur or something, a solopreneur, which was an entrepreneur that did it all on her own. And I thought, well, that's bullshit. Sorry whoever you are, but none of us can do anything on our own, really. There's a level of family, unless you're you're gonna have a pretty narcissistic life if you believe you're doing it all on your own and you are the authority of your life, because yeah, there's so many miss there's so many parts that make my life. My daughter just walked in then and said hello, you might have heard her in the background, and the dogs are barking, which give me lots of love, and my partner's out there probably starting to prep dinner, and and if I don't acknowledge all those things, and I just and again I would say something I say to a lot of couples I work with or a lot of people, there's only 168 hours in a week. So if we're wearing a badge of honour that we're working 80 of them, and hopefully we're sleeping around 50 because 77s are 49, right? If we're working 80 hours. Hours a week and then we're sleeping for 50. That's a hundred and th that's 130 hours out of 168. How much time are our kids and our partners getting from us? And really, what what are we valuing this on? Is it a badge of honour that um yeah, I work so much and therefore I'm important?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And I guess that's where sometimes our sense of self is so um heavily reliant on that external stimulus, whether or not that is work or even relationship or what you know helping others or whatever it is uh that we do, you know. And I guess when I look at the sense of self and self-esteem, confidence, whatever you want to call it, I would say that that I I translate that into our how much we believe in ourselves. Because then when we don't believe in ourselves or when our belief in ourselves is a little bit weak, then maybe that will help us push a little bit more to work a little bit more or to you know reach out to whatever the external stimulus is. It's like that's the addiction that helps us believe in ourselves or or show why we should believe in ourselves because we don't to start.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Definitely. And I'm gonna ask it, I'm gonna ask a couple of I like to put people on the spot here. So brace yourself. Where do you think as a therapist we can hide behind awareness or the identity of who we think we are? Where do you think that is detrimental to us or the people around us?

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Well, I guess uh on one hand, then it's exposed to other people's problems on a daily basis, so that can create um fear or apprehension, or and I mean, my role as a family mediator is to assess for domestic violence and and you know, assess for whether or not these two people can be in the same room together. And so I guess that's put me on a high alert where I hear something, see something straight away, oh I'm assessing, you know. So I guess that's uh part part of the the hazards uh of the role. It's how do you switch off?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

So do you mean when you're like out at a concert or something and you're observing a couple over here having a bickering?

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Or yeah, actually, I was at a wedding and I thought I saw interactions and I thought, oh my gosh, that's so controlling. It was so and I couldn't and and I turned around, I I mentioned it to someone else at the wedding, and they're like, Oh, I didn't notice. Oh no. But just seeing things This is the caveat, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:43

For this work, anybody that comes to therapy, there should almost be a a thing you sign, and it says you'll never see if you keep on this journey, you'll never see the world the same again. Ignorance is bliss until it's not. Yeah, that's right. And you know, again, another confronting question, and this one's who do you think gets the worst of you in your life? Who do you think gets the worst of you? Personal question, not as a therapist, I mean as Rosemary.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Well, I guess that would be um anyone in my inner circle on a bad day when I'm having a bad day, you know, it could be you know, family, close friends, whoever it is, um would tend to get have exposure to to the dysregulated me.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, and do your partner and kids, do they sometimes feel like I know for my daughter, sometimes she says, just be a dad and stop therapizing me. Do you ever get things like that where you're trying to mediate the conflict in the home?

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I try not to at home, not to use that talk because I have I have been shut down a few times when I first started. So I just uh try not to though. I do joke about being uh you know having to report things when when I but that's just in ingest, ingest. I try to hold back uh uh you know as much as possible to yeah, in that case.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Is it hard? Do you think it's hard to switch from you know work rosemary to home to that road?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Like for me because my role is to not take sides, to be independent, to be neutral as as a mediator, and even as a counselor, I'm I was always more along that sort of non-directive um approach. And it's my nature. So I think part of this is my personality as well, being that mediator, being um a little bit balanced or or maybe not showing exactly what I'm thinking, because you know, in mediation I can't show shock or show sadness or upset or or whatever it is, because I'm there to keep the process going, you know, and help them so that when they do get emotional or angry, they're not looking at me doing the same thing. They're looking at me to help support them to keep going or to take a break or whatever it is. So I think a part of it is my training, but it's also my nature.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

What about when it's to do with you, though? Does that almost impact you as well, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Oh, definitely, because yeah, concerning, you know, anything where I'm directly uh involved in, um then yeah, it's hard not to, you know, just you know, be upset or say share what's what's what's come up, you know, and and and what my preference would be or what I don't like.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah. And have you found that having this role has cost you anything? Like does it cost any friendships or do you see people see you differently in this role sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Um that's an interesting question. I I haven't noticed.

unknown 28:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

I haven't no I mean I I I've been doing this for 15 years. Um, so I guess everyone's sort of used to my whereas my new role is really the writer and the speaker. So maybe in relation to that role, I do get comments like, oh what you know, or um compliments, or just oh, you're really busy or you're out there, you know. But not necessarily I think everyone's used to me being a mediator and a counselor now. It's just been so long.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Okay. Yeah, it's an interesting process for me. I guess I've had two lives, probably three. I was an alcoholic and then I was a tradesman as a plumber, volunteering in this space. And I do show shock and I do do those things because I try I'm I guess I went to uni to find out the ethics and that sort of stuff. And apart from that, like how I'm dressed now is how I'll turn up bare feet. My supervisor used to argue with me a lot at the start, you can't wear a hat to work, you need to wear a collared shirt, you you can't wear thongs to work. And I'm like, who says I can't? Who says I can't show shock? Who says I if somebody says something that's shocking, for me, I'm I'm shocked and I'm I'm letting them know. How do you reckon that was just taken? Like in its heart, it's I guess it's nice to see people do it a different way. And if I can learn off everybody I speak with, I can learn so much.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah, and that's the beauty of connecting with people sort of in the industry, similar roles and different because it and there's so many approaches out there, and it's really just a matter of which one you came across or which one your mentor was using, or which one was available at the university you studied, wherever you studied, as to really what you take on. Um, so it's sometimes just luck of where you are.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, and I think it's good to for all of us to keep reading different things, and that's the way I'll read. I'll read one chapter here and one chapter there, and my partner hates that. She has to read a book, start and finish, where when I'm reading, it's one chapter, and then I'll just close my eyes, grab another book off the shelf, one chapter, any random chapter wherever it lands. And for me that works, but it's so nice to see different people and how they for me to have clinical in front of my name, which it does now. I'm probably the least clinical when I've got to write a report. It's like, what am I doing here? Like, I don't even I don't even know how to do this. But it's funny when I think they read my reports, I think they probably don't even really it doesn't have the lingo, it's very base level, but it seems to be what they want as well. So it's yeah, I think the more of us we can bring to the sessions personally in the world, you know. Carl Jung said this, it's not what you know, it's who you are, is why people come to see us. It's not really what we know, it's more who we are. So, all right, we're at that time. If anybody wants to reach out to Rosemary, I'm gonna leave the details of Instagram, Facebook, website, book link in the show notes. So can you leave us with one line, a statement, not just something for the next guest to be hit with at the start?

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Oh, gee, I wasn't really prepared for this, but well, I mean, I do like to to practice strengths-based approach. Um so I don't know if this is gonna be too complicated, but so strengths based is is my focus on what's wrong or what's wrong? So the question is just for reflection, is my focus on what's wrong or what's wrong? About anything.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Is my focus on what's wrong or what's wrong? Thanks, and we'll leave it there.