Chayse - Desire

In this episode, I’m joined by Chayse.

Chayse works in an area that most people either judge, misunderstand, or avoid talking about altogether. He is an erotic massage practitioner who works with women and couples, but what interested me wasn't the work itself. It was what sits underneath it. Desire. Communication. Consent. Shame. Fantasy. Touch. The things most people desperately want to talk about but rarely do honestly.

This conversation surprised me. I expected to spend most of the time talking about sex, but we kept finding ourselves talking about relationships. About how little people actually communicate with each other. About the assumptions we make after years together. About partners spending decades believing they know each other while never asking the questions that actually matter.

One story really stuck with me. A couple had been together for thirty years before she finally admitted she never liked something he had been doing sexually. Thirty years. It made me wonder how many people are quietly living inside relationships built on assumptions rather than honesty.

We also spoke about masculinity and the way so many men confuse performance with presence. Chayse talks openly about learning to read body language rather than simply chasing an outcome. About slowing down enough to actually notice another human being instead of making intimacy about themselves. Whether people agree with his profession or not, there is something valuable in that observation.

The conversation also moved into ethics, trauma, disability, boundaries, consent, and the responsibility that comes with working so intimately with vulnerable people. I found myself asking questions I never expected to ask, and I appreciated that Chayse answered them without trying to sell anything or convince anyone he was right.

Probably the biggest thing I took away was how often we avoid uncomfortable conversations because we assume we already know the answer. We expect our partners to somehow read our minds, then spend years resenting them for never discovering something we never actually said.

This episode is less about sex than it is about communication.
Less about fantasy than honesty.
Less about technique than connection.

The question Chayse leaves for the next guest is this:
What are you most willing to sacrifice for someone?

Chayse can be found at: https://www.perthsensualmassage.com.au/

It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME. In Session with a Psychotherapist
Hosted by Chad Taylor. Author of It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME

No tips.
No fixing.
Just real conversations.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:31

I'm Chad Taylor, psychotherapist, author of It's You, Oh Fuck, It's Me. No tips, no fixing, just real conversations. Today I've got Chase here. Chase, who the fuck are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Hey, uh, I am a Perth guy that specialises in central and erotic massage for women and couples.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Exciting. I think I'm getting a bit turned on there, Chase.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

I know you like your good massages.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

I love a good massage, although not the erotic type, as I'm in a monogamous relationship. Tell us a bit more about yourself outside of that. I understand that there's probably a few parts to you doing that sort of work.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah, well, I mean, I started because uh I studied sexology as a hobby and an interest of mine. Um, I found that love, sex, and relationships was a topic that you will never learn everything about. And so I found it really fascinating because every book I read, every podcast I listened to, every research I did online spun me down a different spiral of uh interesting topics and things about the body and love and connections. And uh it just grew from there essentially.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

This is exciting for me, right? Because I come into this podcast with a beginner's mind. This isn't a podcast where I think I'm the smartest person in the room. But what drives a human being to want to study sexology, or what is it about us that do you think that turns sexology or sex or erotic massage into a career and into a passion?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, well, I mean, like anything, it starts with a value, right? We have to add value in something. And so I found myself in love with two women, and being brought up, you know, in a family with a Jehovah's Witness father and a Christian mother, you're brought up very, you know, you love one person at a time. And so being in love with two women was kind of like, why do I have these initial feelings? Like this shouldn't be possible, right? We should only love one person at a time. So I started researching that, and that thought brought me down the path of uh polyamory and non-monogamy. Um, and then I learned about kink, BDSM, and then it sent me down all these years of interesting topics. And so that's how I just found it so incredibly fascinating. Um, and essentially I started dating a female sex worker, and she sort of gave me some ideas of a how to promote this kind of stuff, how to, you know, what women are looking for. And I really truly believe that women deserve to have an experience where they felt desired, beautiful, and it just basically blew up from there because I was not expecting the therapeutic work of it. Um, and so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Uh it's exciting to hear that because I try and be as real as I can on this podcast, right? That's my role in the world, and I love to become more real. And there's part of me that's there's a bit of insecurity there, right? That thinks as a man, because I think a lot of men would be listening to this almost making a judgment because they think they already know how to please women, they think they've got it all together when they probably actually never sat down and asked a woman how they want to be pleased, or do you like this? Or for me, it's taken a lot of time and a lot of work to understand that I don't know everything. Every woman is different, every human being is different. What else could you elaborate on that for us you learn from woman or from your studies?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Well, I think the biggest thing is blood honest communication. Because I read this book called Want, and it was written by Julian Anderson, I think it was. She was the sex ed coach on the show Sex Education, and she wrote this book where I think it was 3,000 women or something had written in their true fantasy imagining thoughts that they used during masturbation. And that really opened my eyes on all these different ways that women, you know, create their own fantasy in their mind and their own desire in their mind. Um, and then I read another book, um, still reading at the moment, that was made in the 70s for women about how they touch themselves, how they masturbate. Um, and then that just brought me down a whole nother path on how every woman touches themselves differently. And there's a website called OMG Yes, which actually visually shows women how to masturbate in many different ways. And so all that together, I think, shows how every woman is a snowflake. They're all unique and different in their own way, and you've got to find that way. And you really don't know that way until you communicate with them, but you've got to make it very authentic. When you ask her that question, oh baby, what does what works well for you or what do you like? It's gonna come from a real place of authentically wanting to know for her benefit, because us men tend to ask for a reason for our own benefit, and I think it has to come authentically, and women are very intuitive and they can tell when you're doing something for yourself, and so you've got to be really authentic about wanting to understand her and her body and not making it about yourself to start with.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, and I think I see a lot of people in the world using our partners as a masturbation device. We're not even really loving them, we're using them. You know, Jim Fries talks about when we first meet a partner, there's all these different sex positions, and then after a short time of dating or being in love, there ends up being three. The one you start with, the one that makes her come, the one that makes him come. And it becomes pretty monotonous and pretty um, what's the word? I suppose regular, pretty vanilla. I noticed I had a read-three profile, and you give couples, you give women these fantasy experiences. Does somebody fill out an intake? How does if somebody was to book you as a what do you call yourself, therapist, practitioner, whatever, lover, I don't know, probably not lover, but do they fill out a form of what what like do you get them to fill out these specifics in the intake form?

SPEAKER_01 7:12

No, no, it's it's something I'm thinking about in implementing. Um, but it's really tough because I mean you obviously want to keep their discretion. Some people don't want to have to do that, and I get that, but for my own safety, it's more important. Uh but with women with disabilities that can't communicate or have an issue communicating, or their anxiety is so high they can't communicate in person. They usually send me an email or a message stating what they want to, you know, explore and what they don't, and where they do want to be touched and where they don't, and where they might want to be touched, depending on how they're feeling. And so there is that sense of communication before any client. I always ask, where do they not want to be touched? Because I can figure out generally where they're enjoying to be touched, but you never know that a scar on their shoulder might remind them of a domestic violence thing with a male. And so that could re-flare up this sort of, you know, re-trigger them in a sense by touching that area specifically. So finding where they don't want to be touched, I think it's most important.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah, I love to hear that. You can probably see me, my mind's deep at work while I'm listening to you thinking about my own life, because I don't think we do that enough. I talk a lot about contracts, and there's a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy that I've recommended to a lot of men. And it really is about we set up these covert contracts in the world, almost these contracts we go into that nobody else knows they're entering the contract. And it I think life would be so much easier if we set these sort of contracts, and I don't mean the woman's in the kitchen and the man's in the yard, I mean the contracts that work for each couple, right? For each person. Because I know in my relationship we have a lot of these contracts and we don't really deviate from them within reason. And I think they work really well. I'm sure my partner, fiance Sophie, would say the same thing that and hearing you say that really makes sense to me because funny enough, I did have a couple that came in and they're in their late 50s and they'd been together for 30 years, and all of a sudden, at one point, he was going down on her and she just lost her shit and yelled at him and said, After 30 years, I thought you would have known I didn't like that. And he was absolutely shocked because he'd been doing this thing to her for 30 years, thinking she was enjoying it. At what point in a relationship do you say, actually, I'm not really enjoying that? You let it go because at the start it's all awkward and you're putting on your best face, and then all of a sudden it built up and built up and built up, and then it was almost like, Don't fucking, don't touch me there again. And so I think what you've said there, I in the same dynamic, I had it with a couple a while ago where after 40 years, you think he'd know how to make me a cup of tea. He's never ever made me a cup of tea. So we worked through this making a cup of tea thing, and then the next week they come back and she says, Don't ever fucking make me a cup of tea again after 40 years. He didn't even know how I like it. And that's the thing for me with my coffee and with my tea. I like a certain amount of milk, I like a certain amount of sugar. A teaspoon's a teaspoon, depending on who's throwing the teaspoon in, and hot water is different, and the amount, a little bit of milk for some people, right, is different to a little bit of milk for another person. And I think it really is not talked about enough this stuff. So I'm so grateful to have you on here.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

I think the something I can add there is um women, yeah, don't want to have to tell you how to eat them out, right? Women don't want to have to tell a man how much sugar she wants in her coffee, right? But what a man can visually see is how she responds to that. So you know, if she if he gives her a cup of coffee and she's like, thanks, why is she not thanks, thanks, hun, thanks for that. I love that. Oh fuck, that tastes so good, right? Like, if she's not responding in that way, I'm gonna be like, Oh, would you like more sugar? Oh, would you like less sugar? Uh and that's the same thing for you know, going down on someone and being able to tell what they're enjoying or not enjoying, is how is their body responding? And so I'm always thinking about the microexpressions of her desire. And so it's not always you know verbal, but it's also how is her body? Is her hand clenching into my hand while I'm doing that? Is her pelvis moving back, which means I couldn't be giving too much pressure? Is her pelvis pushing my into my face more, which means she probably wants more pressure, so then I'll just give more pressure. Is her pelvis moving around and around because she likes a circular motion? And so there's like a hundred different tells that women are giving off with their body that they won't give off with their voice. You're gonna be able to read that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, and that communication, right? They say that 7% of communication is what we act, the physical word that we say, and 20 odd percent is our tone of voice and the way we say it. And then over 60% of communication is body language. So it's really, really good to hear you say that. And I don't know how this podcast will land, right? For a lot of my listeners, but I also think that if you can listen with an open mind, I'm thinking to myself, fuck, I'm a therapist. Do I do all these things? And to be honest, I would bet off asking my partner and her being fully honest, really. The last guest I had on was Matt Peel, and he was an exercise physiologist, and he was all about standing up straight. His business was stand up your desk. So it was almost like, what's the universe telling me here with these guests? Is what I'm thinking. Oh, I noticed in the background you've got your Perth Sentral Massage sign, and I did notice that you've got an award there. Do you want to tell us a bit about that? You just won an award.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Recently, just the other day in Melbourne, the AAIA award, the best male sensual erotic massage provider. Yeah, it's an incredible award and you know, incredible honor to win this award because it really helps legitimize that you know this kind of thing is out there in the world. It can be safe, it can be pleasurable, and women are voting for it. The women are voting for their favorite and their and the best of you know, had because word of mouth is probably the best way and the safest way that women can have these experiences. Because let's face it, anyone can advertise, right? Anyone can advertise something. But whether it's recommended from a friend, whether she's coming in as the guinea pig and then she's gonna recommend it to her other friends if she had a good first experience, that's the most safest way. Because I think the other safe way is if the guy's been in the industry a long time. If he's been in the industry a short time, you don't know if he's safe. But if someone's been in the industry six years, like me, if I was doing bad things, I would have been locked up a long time ago. It's as simple as that. You cannot be in this industry and be doing unethical things for this long without being in prison because they will, yeah, send you to prison. That's one of the dangerous things about being a part of this industry, is the risk.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yeah, it's a lot of responsibility that you guys hold. It's a bit like if a therapist ever gets struck off, it's generally been inappropriate relationships, sexual relationships with a client. And this might be a question you don't want to answer. So say pass. Is there times where you get really turned on? Like, can you can you actually segregate this as a job? And and I ask that because I've got repeat clients where I'm like, oh, this person could be, I could see this person really being a friend in we've got to know each other over five years of monthly or fortnightly sessions. I could see this person being a friend to me, but there's an ethic if ethical barrier there as a client. Is it sometimes hard for you to not be turned on, or would you rather not answer that?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I'm more than happy to answer that question. It is hard.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Literally. Literally. Look, it's situational, right? If the 40-year-old woman that comes in to book this as a fantasy of hers and wants to touch me in a way that arouses her and it turns her on, and she has a better experience if I am also hard. I don't see the the negatives in that. I had um not gonna name names or anything, but I've had uh since a sex workers book where they are always giving to men. Right? They are always, and so they want to have an experience that is purely about them. And this has happened many times, and in those cases, I tell them that they are not allowed to touch me because this experience in that situation is about her, and it's about her receiving, and you know, her being in this industry, she understands all the negative men and the way men can manipulate things for their own benefit. But if she comes in here and she's a stunning, beautiful woman, I'm a straight guy, I can appreciate a beautiful woman. Um to be the one guy in her life that has completely made it about her and not made it about himself, and that she can leave safely and look back with fond memories. And me have never been that toxic man, I actually value myself more because of that than ever trying to make it about myself. You know, yeah, it's because it's you can have a stunning woman and not make it about yourself. That is strength. That is really, really hard to do as a man, and to be able to do that and to be able to just make it about them.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

And I respect that as a man because I get a lot of women come to me, teenage girls or mid-20s, or it doesn't really matter, but where there's been men in their lives that have let them down, whether it's a father figure, whether it's sexual abuse, an uncle, and we hold responsibility. Any practitioner that has the word therapy or therapist, there's a level of ethics that we need to withhold. I think we hold a lot of responsibility in this job. Because I'm sure there's a lot of people who go into your line of work who aren't very well. Would I be right in saying that?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, of course. And this and there's women in the industry that aren't very well. There's men. It it's not gender-based, it's just based off people. Um, and so that's why, you know, recommendations and testimonials and awards and all different things is what helps you put yourself in a safe way with someone in this, you know, industry.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Is it hard to get insurance?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Uh well, I mean, yeah, I've got basic insurance, but it's yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, if they fall off the table or that sort of stuff. Um, but I mean, you can't like show yourself from other things, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, I'm just curious, right? And I suppose the last thing I wanted to ask on this award was how does someone vote for that? Do you go down on a bunch of women and then they then and then they say how good you they rate you on a scale of one to ten in each different topic?

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Or I mean that wouldn't be the best way, right? Everyone on the bench, you know, five girls, five guys, they all swap. That would be the best way, but it's it's not possible. You couldn't do that. Um but really it's just a voting system. It is a bit of a popularity contest, but I think that what it shows is the the testament to the amount of women that have had amazing experiences with that person and uh want to vote and uh value his service, I think that's really all it's about.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I'm curious, right? These are why I'm asking so many questions. I love these conversations. This is a bit like in a way therapy for me. I've got to get to know someone deeply inside. And surprisingly, when I hit you with what the last guest left, it lines right up with what we're talking about, as it always does. But have you ever had any women book who you've had to turn down because they were unwell? Whether it's a disability or something you thought this isn't safe for me to be acting this out or this isn't safe for me to pleasure this woman due to an intellectual disability or whatever it might be. Like, has that ever happened?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, I have come across a lot of that. Um, not a lot, 1%, let's say 1% of lookings. Disability I'm fine with. I've seen many um people with disabilities. The main thing is, you know, they can clean themselves properly, they can brush their teeth, they don't have bad oral hygiene, and they don't have spasms where they're kicking and punching their arms because that can happen. Um suicidal sort of situations where they're trying to put themselves into dangerous situations as a form of self-harm, um, where someone's wanting me to completely choke them out and do things to them that would not they would not want normally. Like I said, very, very rare, but I'm able to distinguish, you know, what is a positive experience for someone and what is not going to be a positive experience. If it's someone just wanting to explore kink, that's a whole different level. But if the first session they tell me they don't like being choked and they don't like being fingered hard, but then the next session they say they want me to choke them fuck out and finger them as hard as I can. Then I'm going, well, why is this? And then I've figured out, you know, to come from a place of self-harm or, you know, all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

What about one last I keep saying one last thing here. Has there ever been any fear around somebody that's been married that's come to you about a partner finding out or an ex-partner or like I don't know, I'm I guess I'm thinking about their intellectually disabled daughter that might be steered in the way of you, and then a father getting angry that you've taken advantage of their daughter or something like that, which I know you're not, but I guess I've just been a therapist, I just see people from so many walks of life and the way people think and the projection I suppose we put into the world.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yeah. Well, I've had parents book this for their children.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Which, yeah, you know, intellectual disabilities, they can't all they can't work at phone or you know what I mean, but they've expressed to them these specific desires. Not a common thing, but it does happen from time to time. Um, I've never had anyone be like, What the fuck, you did this to my wife? Because women are very, very discreet with things. Um, you know, guys usually get caught out way more often than than women do. So they've they've never really had any issues in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

I'm gonna have to go home and have a word to Sophie now and make sure she doesn't get your number.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Well, that just makes a better why would married when women book this.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, that's right. It's about me, right? Not about her.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yeah, well the women that I find that book this is usually because their partner's not giving them something.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

A hundred percent. People generally don't seek out somebody else if they're happy with what they got. We only seek out something that we're missing inside of our life, otherwise we wouldn't bother seeking it out, right? It's men, right? Sometimes a fantasy could be in a closed-down relationship. It could be I want you to dress up in a nurse's outfit, it could be I want you to be naked when I come home from work. I think we live in a world um where patriarchy has caused a lot of dramas, and now we've got the sort of feminism movement, which again, women, I've got two daughters, right? I'm mindful on how I say this as a man, but I think sometimes it's swung too far the other way where nobody's feeling fulfilled. I think a lot of women aren't feeling fulfilled because they don't want to accept that sometimes they might want their man just to come home and want to ravage them respectfully and consensually. I get a lot of clients who are like, I touch my woman on the bum in the kitchen and I'm told don't fucking do that, misogynist. And then two hours later we're having sex in the bedroom and she wants me to grab her ass, and I don't know when's the right thing to do it, and I don't know when when when I can and when I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Well, it's there's a lot of guys that have a bit of the Madonna Law complex, which is um, you know, I mean, I don't agree on the words whore, but that's just the way that it's expressed is that your wife or your partner is the beautiful Madonna. She's the mother of your children, she's the one you idolize, you respect, you care for the most, right? But then there's a lot of men that desire the whore. They desire the promiscuous woman, the slutty girl, the naughty one they shouldn't be with, right? And a lot of wives and partners want to be treated like his naughty little whore because they want their partner to really desire them. They want their partner to, you know, consensually, of course, grab them and take them. Because being taken as a woman is getting you out of your head. Because a lot of women are in their head, and so to be taken, to be ravished, is to be free, is to be desired, is to not be insecure, not have these you know, thoughts in the head as much, of course, depends on the person. But how do you implement that with the husband? Because then if you're the mother of their children, like you don't want to slap her and hit her and just fuck her, right? She's someone you love and you care and you desire. And yeah, trying to find that balance of these women wanting to be ravished by their husband, and then just not feeling that from them, they're not feeling that from them at all because the men don't look at their wife like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

A lot of men are attracted to that type of woman, but yet I don't I don't want my wife to be that person. And we see that in a lot of culture too, right? In a lot of cultures and a lot of areas. And where do people find you? Someone's listening to this, where can they find you? Sophie, not you.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Uh well, percentualmassage.com. They also have YouTube links, social media links, and I talk a bit about the industry uh and stuff there.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Which I'll put in the show notes. We're not finished yet, but I like to do this now. If anybody's interested, then there'll be a lot of information in the show notes on how to contact Chase. My last guest, and he left the quote a little bit of light can erase a lot of darkness. What comes up for you when you hear that?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

A little bit of light erases a lot of darkness.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, a little bit of light can erase a lot of darkness.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

I think the first thing that pops straight off my head is the therapeutic clients that come here that have never been touched by a man in a positive sense, they have these after tears. And so when a client comes in and she cries before the session, it's tears of sadness, and when they cry after the session, it's tears of joy, and I think that that's the darkness seems that light at the end.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

There's probably a lot of healing that goes on as well in that therapy is therapy. And obviously, you read my book, which was how you got here. What landed in my book for you, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 27:37

It was a few weeks ago now. I think the brutal honesty, right? Like obviously the title says it all, but it's really you're not writing the things down to fit into any box or any social standard or anything. You're coming from a blunt, honest place of the way that you know human dynamics work and the way that you know men feel. I think there's a lot about men in there, which was great because it's not been spoken about much lately. And there's not many men that are talking about their feelings, and I think that's really, really incredible for you to be able to put out a bit of that. Um, but yeah, I think it was just the blunt honesty I loved about it. You're no fucking around, just straight to the point.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

And I suppose I'm gonna ask you if do you get much judgment off people that knew you before you went into this role? Friends and family and things like that. Like, because I know for me, a lot of my relationships have changed outside now that with what I do. It's because I don't really want to have the talk about Donald Trump or I don't really want to have the talk about the price of fucking fuel or whatever's going on. I'm not interested in that, or the road works down the street. Unfortunately, I think I'm more into wanting that deeper conversation. Tell me what's really going on for you. Do you have you seen much of that in your transition into this role?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

I'm fortunate enough that all of my friends that were friends before are still friends. Um, I think that they've seen this path and journey along with me has helped them. It wasn't just one day, oh yeah, now I'm just gonna be rubbing down women for money. Right? Like they've seen a path that I went down, they've seen the journey of the years of interesting topics we talked about. And you know, I'm the friend they come to when they have love and sex problems, you know, because they know that I'm not gonna judge or anything like that. So there's a mutual value and respect. I think it's more the people online that send the most hate that really don't understand, and they they that's their issue because they don't actually believe a man can be positive and consensual and make this about her. They don't believe that. Just in their mind, they just can't fathom that a guy can be doing this consensually and for women. They just think automatically, they go straight to he must be sexually abusing, he must be getting something else out of this. They don't understand that someone can actually really care about people. They don't they they just don't see that, and that's a real, real shame.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

And what about family? I know you mentioned at the start you came from a Jehovah's Witness father, I think you mentioned how have they been able to handle this, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Well, from my knowledge, they don't know. Luckily, they're not very tech savvy and they're not too social. Um, they will find out one day. If you know them, don't tell them. But uh they'll, you know, I mean, it's not something I'm gonna be out behind forever. Surprised, they still don't know. Maybe they're just not telling me. Um, but when I told my mum that I do massage, she said, it's not erotic massage, is it? And I said, no, but good idea.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Maybe I should Is that hard for you to put on those two roles? For me, I guess most therapists have two roles, right? They have the Chad version where I put the collared shirt on and I do my hair and I wear long pants and shoes, and then they have this version, which I've completely different role to you. But for me, I really try and bring myself to the session so that the Chad that I am at home with my daughter and Sophie, my fiancee, and my daughters, is the Chad that somebody gets in here. Do you think there is a way of integrating that, or do you think you sort of have to separate and almost hide behind that? Not hide, I don't know if hide the word, but do you feel like there's ever a way where those two worlds can come together for you?

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Of course, it's a shame that it's hard. I can't share those achievements with them yet. Um, you know, winning this award or whatever the achievement is, I can't share that with them. You know, that sucks. It'd be great to be like, hey, I I did this, I succeeded in this. Um, but as for bringing myself into sessions, women are very, very intuitive. They know it if you're faking it. Right? They just they know you can put on as much as the front as you want. You can be as skilled as putting on a fake person as you can. Women just fucking know. I don't even know how they do it, but they just know it has to. I was talking to this young guy actually Saturday night, not gonna go on long, but this 20-year-old guy came up to me and I was in my suit after the awards night, and he's like, Oh, hey man, what you're in the suit for? I'm like, Oh, I just saw this awards night, and I told him that I won this award, and there's this 20-year-old guy, this young guy is trying to get out there and and you know, fuck some women, right? Like he's a 20-year-old kid who's trying to spread his seed, it's this testosterone in his body. And I'm just standing there with my fucking gym in my suit, and he's like, What's a tip? What's a tip you can give me to pick up these women? He's like, Oh, I like women in their you know, mid-20s or or somewhere around there, someone with some maturity. And I'm like, Well, he's in just a plain sweater, right? I'm like, you're gonna dress to get what you want. If you want a mature woman, you're gonna dress mature. But if you're running around the club looking at every woman, chasing every woman, women know this. If you just stand there with a drink in your hand, that can say a lot. There's sort of real lack of desperation when you show this true confidence in yourself, the way you stand, the way you hold your posture, the way you nod at the girl walking past, right? It's the small cues that women pick up on. It's not running around chasing 21-year-old pussy. It's you know what I mean? It's it's gotta come from a true authentic self. So what I'm saying is that during my sessions, I bring my true authentic self. Otherwise, they would tell me you're faking it.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah. And I think that's part of the reason I do what I do as well. I don't want to be this, I hide behind my notepad. I think it's what you see is what you you get with me. One of the last things I wanted to ask you was has this journey given you any answers to that why you fell in love with two women, or what does that look like now for you, that where it started? Because I know for a lot of therapists, and I don't even know if they know it, they come into therapy to heal themselves. People just generally don't want to become a psychologist or a psychotherapist. There's a level of healing through the journey, right? And that's why I do my own therapy because I don't want to be one of these people that there's a byproduct of healing that comes from me when a client or when someone sitting with me gets that aha moment or gets a release. A bit like an orgasm, right? When they when they get that release, that emotional energetic release, whether it's anger or frustration or sadness or grief, doesn't matter what it is. I also make sure that I do my own therapy once a week. But I suppose for you, what have you learned? Like, have you got out of it what you've what you've um what you set into it with, do you think? Have you got any answers? Like, are either those women in your life now?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah, I mean, that it definitely has given me some answers. And um obviously that was 10 years ago now. It's been a long journey, you know, those women are long gone and married and whatnot in their own life now. So it's it's totally different. But one thing I've learned is that with any relationship, there's sacrifice, right? And just because I love two people, it doesn't mean I can't be, doesn't mean I can be with those two people. Obviously, polyamory relationship polyamorous relationships are you know increasingly becoming more popular, and I am open to a polyamorous relationship. I'm not taking that off the table, I'm not taking monogamy off the table. I am open to the connection that I have with that person and just being blunt and honest in who I am and willing to sacrifice other connections in my life if she doesn't want a non-monogonous relationship. I have to sacrifice other romantic connections in my life. And she's gonna be worth sacrificing for, right? Like, you're not just gonna get in a relationship with anyone and sacrifice stuff, right? There's got to be someone that is unique and special and beautiful and amazing in their own individual way. And I hate how society, so many women are trying to be like each other because it makes it difficult to find someone that is unique and beautiful in herself, um, and that's someone you're willing to really sacrifice for. So I think sacrifice is the key thing there.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Yeah, and I've been to a Buddhist teaching on that exact topic that the true, the highest form of love we can show is sacrifice. I've got an amazing partner, right? I've got an amazing fiance. I wouldn't have asked her to marry me a few months ago if that wasn't the case. But I think there is a level of sacrifice. The same with me. Like I come with two kids and she doesn't have kids.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

She's sacrificing, you're sacrificing. It's a neutral sacrifice. But you've got to really, yeah, love that person, be with that person. And, you know, I think one of the problems nowadays is people just aren't willing to sacrifice.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

I am in a monogamous relationship, and I think that I always will be. I hope I'm always in this one, but I I don't think I'm cut out for polyamory. But I think also for me, it's as much the fact of time constraints as having two daughters and then having having the work that I do, and then I do a lot of travel. And I think for me it would be more like Friday night comes along and I'm like, hey Darlin, hey Sophie, do you want to go out for dinner tonight? And she's like, I know me and Chase are planning on going away for the weekend, and that would be the part I think I'd struggle with the most. Not so much the sex, although that would be part of it. I think it would be more the the feelings of rejection, right? Because each time I want to, if it's the person that I'm in love with or a romantic relationship with, I hope that they're available when I'm available. And I think for me it just definitely, not that I want it to be, and I've never been in a polyamorous relationship. Um, but I think for me it would be more than the sex part of it. And I think that is an issue with all relationships as well, right? We have good communication, right? And I think I could feel just as insecure if she was prioritizing all her girlfriends over me. I would feel just as insecure, I think, as if she was going away with another man. I've spoken about that a lot with a lot of clients and a lot of people in my own life that a lot of people come to therapy because they feel like everybody else in their life is more important than they are, whether it's the boys at the pub, whether it's the guys they play golf with, whether it's the guys they go surfing with, I'm using men. When's the time for me? I think for me, my time is so valuable that if she was out every weekend playing sport or being away every weekend, that wouldn't suit me either. But I also think it would suit her for me to be doing that either.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah, and it's a balance. If you want a fishing trip away and she organizes a girlfriend's weekend away the same weekend, and then you both get a weekend away.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

100%. And all comes back to communication, like we touched on. All right, we're at that time when you leave a sentence, a line, a question, just one thing for the next guest.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

What are you most willing to sacrifice for someone to do it?

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I love that. What are you most willing to sacrifice for someone? And we'll leave it there.