Jacob - Potential

In this episode, I’m joined by Jacob.

Jacob is twenty years old and the creator of the TalkAnything podcast. On paper, this probably looks like a conversation between two podcasters. It wasn't. It quickly became a conversation about identity, kindness, autism, purpose, and what it means to become a good man in a world that constantly tells you who you should be.

What struck me most was Jacob's curiosity. At twenty years old he isn't pretending to have life figured out. If anything, he seems genuinely fascinated by people and by the process of trying to understand himself. I found that refreshing. Most of us spend years trying to convince the world we know who we are. Jacob seems far more interested in asking whether we ever really do.

We spoke about his autism and I appreciated how honestly he described it. There is a growing trend to either frame autism as nothing but a disability or nothing but a superpower. Jacob sits somewhere much more grounded. He openly acknowledges the struggles it has brought into his life, while also recognising that it has given him a different way of seeing the world. That honesty made the conversation far more interesting than simply trying to force it into one narrative or the other.

One part of the conversation that really landed for me was around identity. After reading my book, Jacob spoke about how easy it is to build an identity around labels. Being autistic. Being a podcaster. Being misunderstood. Then he asked a question that stayed with me.

Where does understanding yourself end and limiting yourself begin?

I thought that was a remarkable question for someone his age, and probably one many people much older still haven't asked themselves.

We also spoke about kindness. Not as something soft or passive, but as something intentional. Jacob described himself as the person his friends call when they need someone to listen. Someone who genuinely wants to make other people's lives a little easier. At the same time, we explored the difference between kindness and people pleasing, because there is a fine line between giving freely and quietly abandoning yourself.

As the conversation unfolded, it became less about autism, podcasting, or even identity. It became a conversation about growing up. About trying different versions of yourself. About recognising that who you are at twenty probably won't be who you are at thirty, forty, or fifty. That isn't failure. It might actually be the whole point.

The statement Jacob leaves for the next guest is this:
No matter the faults, no matter the problems, all you can do is try and be kind.

Jacob can be found at: https://talkanythingpodcast.wordpress.com/

It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME. In Session with a Psychotherapist
Hosted by Chad Taylor. Author of It’s You. Oh Fuck. It’s ME

No tips.
No fixing.
Just real conversations.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:35

I'm Chad Taylor, psychotherapist, author of It's You, Oh Fuck, It's Me. No tips, no fixing, just real conversations. Today I've got Jacob with me. Jacob, who the fuck are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

I'm Jacob, creator of Talk Anything, the podcast and content platform. I uh started the podcast because I was curious about people and wanted to have conversations that I wasn't having in you know everyday life. Over time it became a way for me to uh challenge myself, you know, meet people and um well explore questions that you know people don't normally have.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

And who are you behind all that? Who are you behind that? Tell us a bit about what lights you up, what doesn't light you up. Who are you behind the face of Talk Anything podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

I'm just a guy who's trying to be a good man, a good son, and a good brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Okay. Not married, no kids yet?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Oh no, no, no, no. I'm 20, so that ain't happening soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Time to come, hey?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

So where can people find you? Where can people find Talk Anything podcast if they wanted to find you on there and have a listen?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I'm on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon, Instagram. I'm on all the major platforms.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

What about if someone wants who comes onto your show? Do you have a particular demographic, or like how does somebody get onto your show if they listen to it and they like it?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Uh well, I mean, I'm always searching for new guests, but I'm not looking for anyone in particular. If they have a interest in a certain topic, then they can let me know and we could talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Any topics you're particularly looking for in the next season that you haven't had yet?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

I can't I can't give away too much, but um season two is uh a lot about finding yourself. So every top every conversation will be centered around that season topic.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Do you think you've found yourself yet by listening to people on the podcast? Has Jacob been able to find himself yet?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I've definitely taken a long uh look, I guess you could say, at finding who I am. Thanks to this.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I think it's a lifelong journey.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Oh, I 100% agree with you there.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

I think anybody that thinks they've found out who they are is delusional because I think back to who I was at your age, I was in active addiction. I was like going through, I think between 20 and 22, I had 32 jobs that I got sacked from and left, and my life was just fucking chaos. I was in and out of mental institutions, I was on heaps of medication, I was getting shock treatment, and I think if so if somebody asked me at your age, have you found yourself? Fuck, I'll tell you what, I probably would have said yes, but I'm laughing because it's amazing these stages of life. And then if somebody had asked me at 30 years old if I found myself, I just got married, I was racing cars, I had a successful plumbing business. I think, yeah, I'd found myself then, and then now at mid to late 40s, it's like fuck. I look back there and it's like I've had 10 lives inside of one, which I love.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I get it.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yeah, and I'm glad that you're doing this stuff and this self-evolution for yourself so early on that you maybe love to see where you are in 20 or 30 years if you keep on this journey.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Oh, I'm I'm I'm I'm ready to see where that will go.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

So I do something on this podcast where the last guest leaves something for the next guest. It's either a question or a statement or anything that they want to leave, just something short, not teaching, just something opening. And the last guest left, how can you leave this world a better place by starting with you?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Oh, I love that question. Oh, and I'm guessing what I answered that my perspective on that.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, what happens when you hear that? How does that show up? What sort of legacy? I understand I'm talking to a 20-year-old, right? But what sort of legacy, how do you want to change the world? What do you want to do to make the world a better place, do you think, in your life, John?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I've spent practically my entire life obsessed with leaving my mark on this world. I have uh I yeah, again, I am over 20, but I have had that many uh not professional titles, but uh titles amongst friends and family that you know it could take us all the way to Christmas to go through them. But um it's because of all that that I truly believe you know, to leave your mark on this world you gotta do, you know, your own thing. I'm always the guy that my friends and family can come to because I enjoy being that guy. I mean, do I sometimes take it a little too far? Maybe, just maybe. I definitely, you know, I think kindness can go a long, long way. And in the end of the day, we already have so much you know, anger and vengeance and hate and every other negative emotion that you want to name. Why not just give a shot at being kind?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah, I love that. And I guess I'm gonna ask you a question publicly, because a lot of people listening, probably more my age or than you. What was it like? Because I'm guessing you would have been what 15 when COVID was around, 14, 15, I'm guessing high school.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

About that, yeah. About that, yeah. It was about nine or ten.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

What was that like for you? Because there was no I had no planning on going into this question, right? It's just when you just said that then and I sort of thought, like, what is what drives somebody at 20 to want to be this person? What drives how does a 20 year my most 20-year-olds are out there trying to get laid, partying, being selfish? What drives a 20-year-old man? Because, like, let's be honest, in America, you're not even old enough to drink, right? If you live in America, technically you're not even old enough to drink alcohol legally. So, what drives someone at 20 to want to do what you're doing? What do you think has got you to this point?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Truth be told, it's a lot of things, but I will name a few. Oh god. When when my mother hears about this, she's just gonna shake her head. But um my mother, she is well, one could say she's my mentor. Every time I've needed to go, I've needed advice, I've gone to her and she's given it to me. And personally, I think she's shown me what true uh strength is. She's not my story to talk about, but she has had uh let's just say an interesting time in life, and yet she can still remain kind-hearted and care. So my mother's definitely one reason that I am, you know, the man that I am today. The 20-year-old who is obsessed with kindness and leaving his mark on the world. The other being um I'm autistic, so I see the world from a different perspective than others do. And as you said, you know, other 20-year-olds are probably trying to get laid or whatever. I'm just trying to understand what the hell this world is.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

That's exciting, mate. I don't want to piss in your pocket, but I'm so proud of you because it is an ability, right? Like I've got a lot, I've already seen two clients this morning in my practice, both of those being autistic and both of those being in high school. And fucking hell, the wisdom and the I don't know how much you want to talk about this, and we're not gonna go right into it because I understand that it's just you know me and you and the rest of the world here, buddy. But for people listening who aren't autistic, maybe it might be good to them to get an insight within reason that it isn't a disability, it isn't just a label that and even maybe younger because I've got a couple of teenagers who listen to this younger than you. A couple of my clients are 13, 15, 17, and I know they listen in, and two of those guys are autistic. Like, has it been a struggle for you, or like do you want to elaborate at all on any of that, or would you rather just I'm uh I will happily elaborate on that.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

I'm not uh I don't want to use this word because I don't like it, but it's the only way I can think of. I'm not ashamed of you know my autism or anything in regards to that. I just if there's a chance for me to pass down, you know, the knowledge I have and the experience I have in regards to my autism, I will jump on that opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Well done, Bella.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Look, it people who say it's a superpower or whatever, yeah, sure, to an extent, but if you're living with it, no, it's not. I have had many, many struggles in my life because of it. I have lost friends, I have had uh countless fights, and I have had people assume one thing or another about me because of it. And look, are there advantages to it? Yeah, there is. I'm not denying that. I get to look at this world in a unique and beautiful perspective that others don't. And that is its own blessing. But I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie and say that there isn't disadvantages because there are a lot.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah, and I'm glad you can be open about that because there's I think there's disadvantages and advantages. Like me, I'm an I'm in addiction recovery, right? Like I'm a recovering alcoholic and I'm a recovering addict, and I was in a rehab at 22. Yes, that's a benefit, I can help others, but would I like to be able to go and drink normally? Fucking oath. So for me, I'm glad that I'm using the card I've been dealt with. I'm glad I'm using I'm glad I'm using that to a heal myself and understand myself more, and B, be able to pass that on. But I think you've summed it up well in saying what you said. Because it does ostracize me. There's a lot of people that don't want me around because I'm confronting because I don't drink. When they ask me, do I want to drink, and I say no, I don't drink, for somebody that drinks right, it's confronting.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Oh, trust me, I get it. I myself don't drink because, well, I see no point in drinking alcohol. But when people, you know, hear that go, they go, What? So I get where you're coming from.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah. I sent my book to you before you come on. Did you have a chance to have a listen? Like, how did how did you process at your age? How do you think you processed that bull?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Uh I actually took some notes because um one of the things that I generally uh I guess you could say uh stood out to me was um the you know the stories we tell ourselves that you know eventually become our identity. Yeah, um it made me think about how easy it is to build an identity around you know uh being a podcaster, being autistic, being misunderstood, this that or the bloody other. And then you know I started wondering where understanding yourself ends and you know limiting yourself begins.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah, great. And if if my book can stimulate any question in anybody, because I'm as you can probably tell, I'm I'm on this journey of self-evolution because I want to become the best human being I can and the most evolved that I can because I think that's in a way why we're here on this earth. I don't think we're here to get cars and get fancy houses and all these things that I think people think climbing to the top of the mountain is I've achieved all those things and I was less happy than I was after all that collapsed. Yeah, no, I get it. What's your ambition? Like, no, I suppose at 20 years old, like are you at uni or do you work, or what do you do about casting?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I'm in TAFE, uh learning radio and podcasting.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Okay, exciting.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Besides that, I'm just trying, you know, taking day by day, leaving my mark on this world as I spoke about earlier.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

And how do you practice that kindness? How would you say Jacob practices kindness? Is it in the home? Is it out in public? Do you volunteer anywhere? Do you play sport?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Like, what do you do with the side of all the above, really? I um, as I said, I'm the friend that my friends come to when they want to talk. So I have had countless friends over the years randomly contact me saying, Hey, can we talk? And I'll sit there and I'll listen to them, whether that's for 20 minutes or three hours, I'll listen. And you know, if my family needs me to pop down to the shops once I'm finished with TAFE, I'll pop down to shops in amount of the time. I I guess you could say I maybe just a little bit, just a little bit, go out of my way to make someone's day easier.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Okay. We live in a world where we can easily unconsciously manipulate other people, right? So just making sure as you go through life, and I'm not trying to give you advice here at all, but it sounds like I am, that when we're kind, don't let kindness be taken as weakness.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah. No, agree. Agree on that one.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

I don't think people intentionally do it. I don't think it's an in, and that's what I write in my book, right? I don't think people intentionally set out to manipulate people and take advantage of people at all. 2% of the world are psychopathic and narcissistic, and the rest of us, I think, are just unconscious, really. Because it's just by nature that we when somebody does something for us, I think we become almost expectant of that, and then it can sort of lead more. So I guess for me, something I had to learn because I was a bit of a people pleaser, I think I sought love in a way through through pleasing. But then what would happen for me was I'd swallow a bit like when I was a tradesman and I had a ute, and people would ask me, Hey, do you reckon you could help me move next Saturday? And instead of saying no, I'd say, Oh yeah, I'll say what I'm up to. And then so they got off the phone thinking, oh great, Chad's gonna help me move. And I got off the phone thinking they're fucking dreaming if they think I'm gonna help them move. Like I'm flat out working six days a week, and then come Friday in the two weeks before the Saturday, they'd ring up or send me a message, and it would either be, hey mate, you're still right for tomorrow, and then I'd start getting angry thinking, what the fuck's wrong with this person? Why would they think that I want to move them? I'm so busy. And then I'd either do two things I'd either reluctantly go and do it and then whinge about it for the next week to my partner or people around me complaining, or I would just ignore them, and then that would turn into a drama, and I'd almost blame them. Where really, when I brought it back to me, it was my fault for not probably saying no when I was supposed to say no, because I was so used to as kids, we grow up and we don't really have a voice a lot of the time. We don't really have a voice on as what we want to do and what don't we want to do as kids because we almost have to fit into whatever our parents do.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yeah. No, I get that. And I mean, look, truth be told, is my mother, who, as I said, you know, is also like my mentor, she actively made sure I, you know. Learn to say no. Good. She can tell when I've put too much onto my plate, and she says, you know, Jacob, you need to say no. You're tired, you need to rest. Sometimes I listen, sometimes I don't. But I'm also stubborn.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

And becoming your own your own person as well, because I think that's part of it. Mothers and sons, and I know for me, my mum would still like to treat me like I'm 15 if it was up to her and I'm 47. You know, I'll go around to her house and God love her because you she will be treating me. I'll get in the car to drive home, and I'm driving my own kids and my fiance, and it will be like off the balcony. Don't speed. Make sure you make sure you don't use your phone. There's lots of police on the road. Text me when you get home.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

I am waiting for that day to happen.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

And the thing is, I try and I've tried to speak to my mum and say, please don't do that. I've yelled at her and asked her not to do it. I can't actually control her, so is all I have to do is smile and nod and not let it have an effect on me. So I guess again, there's so much here that we're talking about that I don't I had no the good thing about my podcast and probably yours is when I get on it, I have no idea where we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah, no, yeah, I know that feeling, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Anything else from my book that stood out? Was there anything else that sort of hit for you, or was it more just that identity thing for now?

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Uh for now, because you know the identity is my uh main focus at the moment. That was the we that was the thing that really you know struck.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

And have you struggled with identity growing up?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yes, and yes, in the sense that I have done what I'm pretty sure most people have done and gone who am I really? No, in the sense that I have well actually no one, I'm just gonna say yes in general, actually, because now I think about it. I have tried many different things and said I was going to be many different things in the span of my life that yeah, you could say I struggled.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yeah, and I'd be surprised if you said you didn't, right? Agreed. Have started a weekly group. It's therapy-based, it's education-based, it's bringing some readings, some teachings from other books. And we had a group yesterday morning, and there was a guy there who, like me, rides a Harley, has cars, but he's also practicing meditation. He's moving from truck driving and working in the minds into working as a men's coach. And he spoke a lot about this yesterday about identity and about am I riding my Harley or am I the guy down the beach meditating? He's in his mid to late 30s, and I think I've had so many hats or had so many identities along the way, trying to find myself. Am I a drag racer or am I a father? Am I a brother or am I a son? We don't know where we fit, right? I think we're all just trying to look to make meaning out of the world, and I think identity is a big thing, and that's something that I'm practicing. Trying to, I am trying to become the person that I am here with you, the same person I am with my clients, with my partner, my fiance, with my kids, with my friends. I'm trying to remove all these hats of identity and just become like who is Chad underneath the clothes he wears, the car he drives, the job that he does. Who am I?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah, no, I get that. But me personally though, I think we need those masks sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

I uh I am, you know, uh well at least I try to be I try to be a good brother, I try to be a good son, I try to be a good friend, I try to be a good podcaster. All you can in my personal opinion, all you can do in life is try.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, that's right. There is no succeed, there's just try, right? Because it's the journey, not the destination.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

No, agreed, yeah. So I usually keep this short and sweet, Jacob. One question statement, not teaching, just something for the next guest.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah, okay, I've got a statement. One that I buy and I would like to see the uh next guest's uh opinion of the sentence statement. Uh no matter the faults, no matter the problems, all you can do is try and be kind.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

I love that. Thanks, Jacob. We'll leave it there.