The Gap Between Intent and Impact: How Small Communication Breakdowns Erode Trust (and How to Fix It) w/ Melanie Sue Hicks

Have you ever moved so fast as a leader that your communication started creating confusion instead of clarity?

In this episode, Jule sits down with Melanie Sue Hicks—TEDx speaker, author, workforce expert, and founder of Inked Elephant Publishing House.

Melanie shares the relatable reality of leading in a fast-paced environment—balancing productivity, communication, expectations, and the pressure to keep things moving. While she was warm and connected in person, she realized her written communication was landing differently. Short emails, limited context, and rushed messages were creating a disconnect between who she was as a leader and how others were experiencing her.

For leaders responsible for execution, retention, culture, and performance, her story highlights something that often gets overlooked:

The small moments of communication are not small.

In this conversation, Melanie and Jule discuss:

• Why high-performing leaders can unintentionally create disconnection when they move too fast
 • How tone, context, and clarity impact trust in day-to-day communication
 • Why small breaks in trust can quietly build into larger culture and performance issues
 • The concept of “invisible snake bites” and how unaddressed micro-moments can damage teams over time
 • How leaders can create safer feedback loops by receiving feedback well and acting on it
 • Why setting expectations early is one of the most practical ways to reduce confusion and resentment
 • How leaders can strengthen alignment by making values, behaviors, and communication match

If you’re leading a team where the pace is high, the expectations are constant, and the pressure to perform never really stops, this episode will remind you that communication is not just an administrative task. It is a leadership tool.

Connect with Melanie:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniesuehicks/
Website: https://melaniesuehicks.com/

Connect with Jule:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julesalem/
Website: www.julesalem.com

Dialing In is a leadership podcast for operators, executives, and founders building under pressure. Each episode explores how connection—when it’s intentional—becomes a true performance advantage.

Join us and subscribe to the show to be the first to hear new episodes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

To me, the most important thing about connecting in the workplace is understanding that organizations are innately human. Every person that walks into a workplace, whether that be walks onto a Zoom screen or in person, is bringing with them a whole backpack of things. In order to really connect with them, we have to understand that we are spherical beings and work is just a slice of that. Not to say that people have to disclose things from their personal life that they don't want to, but in an effort to build trust, we should want to get to know people beyond their job description. That's just what they did on the weekend, but what are they passionate about? And getting to know weird, funny quirks about people in my workplace that builds connection, that builds trust.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Welcome to dialing in. I'm your host, Jewel Salem. And this is the podcast where we talk about the real work of leadership. Not just the wins, but the moments that force us to grow, recalibrate, and reconnect. Let's go to the moment someone pulls you aside and says, you're coming across differently than you think you are. Not in the big moments, not in the meetings, but in the small, everyday interactions you didn't think twice about. In this episode, Dr. Melanie Sue Hicks, leader, TEDx speaker, author of incongruent, and passionate advocate for more human-centered communication, shares the moment she realized her presence and leadership style in person were not always translating to her other forms of communication. From moving fast and prioritizing productivity to unintentionally creating distance through short transactional communication. What stuck with me most in Melanie's story is that it's not the big breakdowns that damage connection. It's the small misalignments we often leave unaddressed. Let's dial in. You and I have chatted about an experience that you had that I think a lot of others will be able to relate to. Really, a moment where what people were experiencing from you in person was different than perhaps your email communication. And so I'll let you take it from there and tell us about what happened.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

So I'll give a little foundational is I have a lot of different professional endeavors. And so I'm in a chronic state of moving very quickly. I have to use a lot of intentional effort to get myself to slow down, especially in important moments of collaboration, because I'm such an activator. If you take the strength finders, activator is in my top five and probably the most utilized one of my strengths. And so what happens in my need to move projects forward, to check off to-do lists, to be really productive, is I can be quite curt on emails or Teams messages or even text messages because I'm just relaying information. And the interesting part about it that I've realized over time is I receive information that way and I'm perfectly fine with it. I enjoy receiving curt, short messages, brevity.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Tell me what I need to know.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Exactly. What do I exactly what I need to know? Don't fluff it out. So the fact that I receive it and then turn around, I sort of forget if I'm not intentional that other people don't necessarily enjoy receiving information in that way. And so I had a colleague who came into my office one day and just said, I have to talk to you about something. It's nothing too critical, but I think you need to nip it in the bud. They said, You're getting a reputation for being a not nice person. And I was like, whoa. And he's like, listen, it's not in person. Every time you're in person, you are different. It's like Jekyll and Hyde. When you are on a written communication, it's so curt, it comes across very stern. You use far too many capitals. He's like, but that's not your persona. That's not how you come across in person at all. Like, what's the disc like? This is a huge disconnect. And I really had to step back and think about it. And actually, it brought up some movie reels of memories because this is like the third time in my career I've had this conversation with someone. At different points in my career, I will start to step into my productivity mode, which to me is just really is that. There's no ill intent behind it. I'm not an angry person. You're not trying to be mean. I am not trying to be mean or overly stern. It just comes across that way in written form because there's no tone. You can't hear my tone, you can't see my face. And so it really made me think about communication and the importance of communication. And it led me down this entire path of figuring out who I am as a leader and why there is such a disconnect and what do I have to do? Like an overarching, a larger thing than just writing emails or team messages. But how do I make sure that I am intentionally living out what I teach, right? I know all of these things. I teach all of these things. How do I make sure I'm living those out in even the small ways? Because these are email communications, probably a mechanism I have taken for granted and not really thought about. Oh, I need to also show my leadership skills there by being very patient, by understanding how people need to receive the information that I'm giving out. And it led me also down a path where, because I'm also a writer and a speaker, social media is a thing, right? It's out there and followerships are a thing. And in the publishing industry particularly, it has become an artificial gatekeeping to really talented writers to get their work seen. If you don't have a big enough following, you can't get seen. So I realize that every time I give a workshop or something, someone comes up to me and it's like, I'm really surprised that I don't see you more on social media. And it's such an interesting thing because I, for whatever reason, I am not connecting in a virtual world in the same way that I connect in a physical, face-to-face kind of space. And so it just goes along with that you're better in person mantra, which is I'm better in person, right? And even on Zoom, it because you're hearing my voice, you're talking, you're looking at my facial expressions, I tend to giggle a lot. So that energy I have a hard time portraying in any kind of official short form or even on social media.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

So from getting this feedback and from what you shared, sounds like this was not the first time. I guess initially, what were the thoughts going through your head? Like, I could see in one hand being like, oh gosh, they're wanting me to take the time to be fluffy in my emails, or people know me. Like, why are they taking it that way? What was your internal dialogue in getting this feedback?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Oh, well, definitely this time around, not defensive. I was just like, oh, right, yeah, that tracks. In fact, internally, the feeling was more about kind of shaming myself that I had allowed that. Like I know that about myself, and I had allowed my intentionality to sort of slip away. And so I was more like kind of beating myself up about, oh, like you know this about yourself. You worked really hard to overcome this a couple of different times.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Where you're like reverting back to your natural tendency.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I'm reverting back to bad habits, right? It certainly did not go to a space of defensiveness, more like, oh, right, yeah, thank you. I need that. And then a whole period of kind of beating myself up internally, the Kremlin on your shoulder that says, like, you know better, you know better.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Right. Do you think like when maybe the first or second time you had heard it, did you have a different internal reaction?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Oh, yeah. The first time I was in my 20s, and I definitely was just like very defensive about it, very immature. I don't think I expressed immaturity outwardly, but internally, the narrative in my head was very emotionally immature and just like, why would I need to do that? That's silly. Like, what are they talking about? Like, we're trying to get work done here. I'm trying to climb the corporate ladder. And you know, and then I think the second time there was probably a mix, there was more self-awareness and an understanding that I again had allowed bad habits to creep back in.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Real quick, so circling back to this email and you know, how you were coming across. Can you share with us so maybe people can be more aware of their own email communication? Well, I know you mentioned like kind of the shortness of them. It sounded like maybe using capitalized letters, help paint the picture for us. What were you doing in these emails that others can learn from to steer clear of?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah, it's really interesting. Definitely too many capitals. I would use capitals where probably italics is the appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Okay. So people felt like maybe you were yelling at them.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Right. And I was not, but that's definitely how it came across. I was just trying to put emphasis on something, which you can definitely do with italics. Sure. And it's a nice, soft way to do it. But it was just a bad habit that I was in. I do use the word please very often. I always did, but it would be like, can you please just do this? And I don't say just, but like, can you please send me this email or forward me this email? Instead of like, hey, I'm trying to remember what was said, could you afford? Or I'm going to reach out to this without giving any context. I'm trying to just like check emails off the box, send this here, do this, instead of giving some context to people as to why that might be important, or just saying, like, hey, how are you? I hope you're having a good day. I'm looking to do this. Would you help me out? Just those small things really matter. Like I said in the beginning, like connecting with people, the small things are the big things. And this also goes in written communication. And I fail at that unless I'm being purposeful. I actually had a friend who said her husband has the same issue because he's just a very curt. He has kind of an engineer brain. And so his hack is to feed important emails through Chat GPT and just say, make this nicer.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Well, hey, nowadays we do have those tools. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

That's right. I think mine is not so much in the, I'm very intentional about long emails and making sure that I wordsmit them appropriately. It was more in the short interactions, the ones I took for granted. So that hack didn't really apply to me, but it was a good reminder that, yeah, just make this nicer. That's what I took away from it. It's like, hey, look at this. It's a one-liner. Can you make this nicer? Can you just say, hey, how are you? Hope you have a good weekend, or we're almost a Friday. Just something that makes it personalized.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah. No, I think, especially in today's world, too. I know for myself and in my business, email communication definitely outweighs how often I'm talking to a client. To your point, we're trying to get things done. They need things from us. We need things from them. But I feel like email does provide, if we're intentional about it, like you're describing, a way to even foster rapport, foster connection. As you described your definition of connection in the workplace and really getting to know people, even sometimes taking the time, if you know a client or an employee has a certain interest, I know sometimes I'll come across something and attach it to my email, like, hey, can you get me this when you have a chance? And oh, by the way, I saw this over the weekend and thought you might enjoy it. So using it as a means of fostering greater connection, which I want to segue to as it relates to this, I had the opportunity to listen to your TED talk, and I wanted to talk about invisible snake bites. Yeah. Oh, my favorite. Yes. So first, can you share with us what invisible snake bites are?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Sure. Invisible snake bites is sort of the fun and colloquial term that I put on a research theory called psychological contract. Psychological contract is this idea, it started being researched in the 1960s and is still being actively researched now about expectations that we bring into the workforce. And when those expectations are misaligned, there is a whole series of consequences that can take place. And the good news is for leaders that mismatched expectations, you don't have to actually be able to meet someone's expectations, but just having an open conversation about them and about and under, you know, it's kind of the same thing I said about the emails, right? Just helping people understand the context, why you have to say no or why that won't work will actually mitigate all of the negative consequences. So the illustration comes from this idea. If you were to get by a snake, you would have remedies, right? You get an anti-vax, you run to the hospital, you will live. 99% of the time, we can figure out a way to get the resources we need because we immediately address it, we fix it, and we heal from it. If you were to sit in a room and you allow a snake to keep biting you over and over, and you don't fix the problem because you just say, oh, it's a little nip, oh, it's a little nip, oh, it's just a little nip, eventually the venom is cumulative and it will kill you. And this idea that in the workplace, if we don't take the small stuff seriously, if we don't take the small breaks in trust, the small mismatches of expectations or the moments of communication that we need to connect with one another, if we take those for granted, if we say that each of those individually is not important, their cumulative effect will kill the organization. It will kill the culture, kill the trust. And so what I preach to leaders when I'm talking about invisible snake bites is like pay attention to the small stuff, pay attention to the little moments. They are worth it. They are worth it. I talk to leaders sometimes who say, well, you know, this person, they're not doing anything that's like worthy of a full piff or a full write-up. But their behavior is not okay. When I talk about this theory, is it becomes cumulative. Yes, that day, that moment in and of itself is not going to kill the organization. But that moment times 12 over the course of six months is going to have a huge impact on the way this person is perceived in the workplace or how the trust is, or, you know, and same if we're talking about, I was kind of speaking internally, but also externally, if you have a lukewarm introduction to a client and then you sort of allow it to simmer in lukewarm bathwater instead of getting in there and getting to know them and getting to have intentional conversations about what do they need and how do we serve them? We're a membership organization here. And so if a member is having a lukewarm interaction with us, eventually they're just gonna flail out. They're not going to be our member anymore. Like these things that we sometimes take for granted, these tiny things, actually, if we ignore them, they will be the killer of the situation. And so we've got to address these things early and often, as I say. And if you are uncomfortable addressing hard conversations, you set yourself up for a major conflict by not addressing the micro. And so just addressing these things early is really the key.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Before they become bigger issues.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Before they become bigger, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah, what you're describing, I refer to them as these micro moments. We think like, oh yeah, we're connecting and that everything's hunky-dory, but it's continuous, right? You have to continue doing the micro moments with intentionality. And I'll quote your TED talk, I think the word you use was diligent. So making sure that we're diligent in fostering connection with one another. So I wanted to ask you because these psychological contracts describing how leaders have certain expectations of people that are in the workplace, and then people that are in the workplace have their own expectations. What are your thoughts on how can leaders get a better understanding of what their team's expectations are of them? And making it safe for them to feel comfortable giving the real answer. Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So I think the number one hindrance to that is a lack of feeling safety. And safety is built by consistent, open reception of feedback. Plain and simple. The way that you create a good feedback loop is having consistent ways to receive the feedback and to give feedback, to give and receive, and then seeing the action in play. So if you give me feedback that I need to make my emails nicer, I better show you that the next time, or I've broken that trust. I'm taking action. And I'm taking action to fix. And that is how you create spaces where you can give and receive feedback safely, right? So the first thing is that is it may have to start slow. If you don't have that kind of culture where people already feel safe, you've got to prove it. So start small. Ask often for feedback and then show the results. Oh, that makes good sense. And the more you do it, the more safety is built up, and the more people are willing to share kind of the harder things. I remember at one organization, the very first thing was people wanted a better toaster, right?

unknown 16:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

And for some reason it was the smallest thing, but it had just sat forever and people talked about it constantly. Why there wasn't a better toaster for everyone, because we had bagel mornings or whatever. That was a small piece of feedback that was remedied and it gained a micro bit of trust. The second part of that is once you have that trust, is in terms of expectations. So expectations are based, I always say on kind of four to five things. So it's what was the work culture like at your previous place?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

What is utopia that you carry around in your mind, whether it's reality or not, that you expect? What were you told in the interview or by others that work with the organization that it should be like, right? I'm putting air quotes in a podcast where you can't see me. But so these are the kind of things that we walk in and set our expectations based on. And this is kind of the swirling bucket of how we set our expectations, right? Whether we articulate them or even think about them in those terms or not, that is the truth of how we set workplace expectations. And so coming in and being very intentional as a leader to an employee and saying, tell me what you expect of me. Tell me what these elements are, what are you bringing to the table? And then I will tell you the same. And also let's talk about where they don't overlap. And let's talk about where maybe I could help them overlap, or maybe I could just give you the reasons why here I can't fulfill that for you. I currently work at a place that is 99% face-to-face, right? And that means we are face-to-face building, then that's the culture. So if you want to work here, you know that you are hanging out with people. We're gonna be in person in 3D form all the time, right? You've got to know that coming in. And if you come in with an expectation that it won't be like that, I need to talk to you right away about this is the reality of here. And if it doesn't suit you, that's okay. And that's not a detriment to you. It's just a mismatch of fit. And so I think that when you give space to first build enough trust that people can be honest, and then secondly, really intentionality about tell me your expectations, let me tell you mine, and then let's talk about where they mix. Literally, the research for 40 years says that will mitigate negative consequences. You don't have to match. You just have to talk about the real realities of why you don't match. I teach six executive programs, and when we kick off orientation, every single program, I say, tell me what you expect a good facilitator to be. And I let the whole class just tell me what is good facilitation. And then I'll say, tell me what bad facilitation looks like. And I'll say, Okay, that's now what you expect of me. You expect me to be a good facilitator. That's why you're here. That's why you pay tuition to be in my course. I will make sure I'm fulfilling those things. And by the way, I've taken note of these things that you think are bad. And if I ever see myself sliding into that, I have a checklist of knowing them, not meeting your expectations. And then I'll flip to the next slide and I'll say, here's what I expect of you. Be curious, lean in. The things that make for a good cohort experience. And I open every session with that because I think it's so important to have that conversation about expectation setting.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, and what I'm hearing, which I think is so critical, is really setting those expectations early on, even as early as the interview process, or I know you're passionate about onboarding and how that's so key in setting those upfront expectations. And I know even like one of my own recent situations, I've had somebody on my team for a good amount of time, and I haven't taken the time to, and it's not anything major, but bring awareness to something that I want them to change. And now I'm feeling like, well, the longer I let it go, now when I bring it up, it's gonna feel like a bigger like where's this coming from? I've been doing it this way all along, and you haven't said anything. So that's right. So what we're talking about, like why doing it sooner than later is more beneficial on both sides. On both sides. Absolutely, absolutely. So, one of the other things I wanted to hear from you on is I know in your your role now, working with a chamber organization, and as you were describing, helping facilitate all these different workshops. And so I would imagine that gives you the opportunity to hear from other organizations on what some of their challenges are. And so, what are maybe like the two or three repeat things that you hear come up within organizations as it relates to their culture struggles?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah. Throughout our programs, we have intentional time for people to share with each other and with me. And also, I've just quietly become a trusted source in a lot of places. So a lot of organizations are really struggling with what they're not articulating as communication, but it boils down to communication, which is aligning their behavior as an organization, like their policies and guidelines with their values and being able to articulate that in a way that is really meaningful. So these organizations they are dealing with. Expectations of generational differences in the workplace. And I studied generational differences. I'm dating myself, but I'm okay with that. When the millennials entered the workplace, is when I wrote a dissertation on psychological contract and the differences of generation in the workplace. And now we have a whole new generation, Gen Z, entering the workplace. And again, a huge majority of it boils down to communication. This is the question I get all the time. How do we make these values that we really care about match with the behaviors of the organization that we have to do for profit purposes, for organizational stability and longevity perspectives, and try to meet the expectations of a really changing workforce. So we're dealing with something, these ripple effects six years later of things that have real cultural impacts and how to navigate that. It really boils down to what we've already talked about, which is like just be intentional. You don't have to get it right. You don't have to be perfect. You just have to make the space and not be afraid to have the conversation. I mean, I made the statement, which is still true, which is like it mitigates a lot of the consequences. It doesn't mitigate 100% of the consequences just to talk about it, right? There are going to be people who want what they want and they're going to be unhappy if you don't give it to them. And you just have to be okay with that because we can't meet the expectations of everyone all the time. And so as an organization kind of tries to energize the various segments of their workforce population, they're battling that against a really tough economy, against organizational values that oftentimes are really still core to them, but have played out differently as the organization has gotten older. And so that's the first one. The first one is definitely how do I navigate these different generations in the workplace? How do I make sure that our values are being pulled through consistently and in a meaningful way? That we're living them. That we're living them regardless of how the economy is asking us to change as an organization, right? How do I articulate the stress of the current economic state? And not every organization is having major strange, but in general, the economy is in a strange place for a lot of a lot of organizations. A lot of uncertainty. A lot of uncertainty. And even if it hasn't hit you yet, you're feeling trepidation that it might. Like what's coming? That's right. And so it puts you in a cautionary stance, less risk-taking than you might have been. So it changes your behavior even if you haven't seen direct impacts. The perception of potential impacts is changing your behavior. And so that is the first. And the second is really around journey, right? Executives, particularly senior executives, are really interested in the legacy building. And they may not frame it that way. That's the way I frame it, but people want to know that their career meant something, that their kind of life meant something, right? And that is like deep-seated human need. And a lot of people, kind of, you know, particularly women, will say their life's mission is their children. And I think that is absolutely wonderful. But there are a lot of people who want something beyond that to hang their hat on as I made this impact. I made this impact in the community, I made this impact in my organization, whatever it is. And so I get a lot of legacy questions. And I partially get this question because I'm really dedicated to philanthropy work. I unfortunately did not have the opportunity to have kids. And so I dedicated myself to doing philanthropy work in a lot of ways, global philanthropy work, so mostly in other countries, but as sort of a way for me to handle that particular chapter closing for me and to get that sense of fulfillment from sense of impact, sense of fulfillment, right. And because I talk a lot about that and I'm really sort of proud of that as a life path that I took, people will ask me about theirs, and they're like, How do you have the time to do that? And I was like, you just have to find the time to do the one thing, just do one thing that makes you feel connected to whatever it is you want to be connected. What is it that you want to be known for as a legacy? Don't feel overwhelmed by it. Just do the one thing. And the one thing will lead to two things, and two things will lead to a million things over the course of the next however many years. You don't have to do it all right now, and you don't have to even know where the path is going to lead. I've been to 47 countries. I've done over 2,500 service hours. I didn't know that. I just went on a trip to read some books to some kids in another country, right? And then that led to something else, and that led to something else. And here we are. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Oh my goodness. Yeah, what you're talking about is hitting very home for me. Similarly, I joke and say I have canine children. I don't have children. And I think for myself, as you're describing the feedback you've gotten from leaders on wanting their journey or their career or mission to really have meant something, I think I often because I didn't have children feel this greater push or maybe you call it anxiousness of, okay, well, I didn't do that. So I've got to make sure that I do other things that have made my call it life meaningful or that I've served others or done something worthwhile, right?

unknown 26:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah, yeah. That definitely heads home for me. But I'm also excited to hear you say that you're hearing this as being important to leaders, whether or not, you know, they have kids or not, because I get the sense that maybe historically it was okay, we go to work, we get the paycheck, and then our greater purpose or fulfillment might be outside of what we're doing day to day. But similar to what you're describing, I'm seeing, and something I certainly on a personal note hope to foster within my own organization is how can people get that sense in their day-to-day? How can we make sure that we're tapping into what they're best suited to do for their role within the organization so that not just outside of work, but in what they're doing day to day and what our mission is of our business, they're able to get that sense of fulfillment within the workplace and in what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. We spend so much of our time at work. And whether that is a single workplace for a long time or a number of workplaces across a career, that's a lot of our life. And if you don't feel fulfilled in at least the majority, you can't feel fulfilled every moment.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

We all have there's those things we gotta do that may not be our favorite, just comes with the job. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

That's right. But I mean, if we don't get overall, if the bucket doesn't tilt in the direction of fulfillment in when you look at your career overall, then you're really missing out on a piece of life that should bring you a lot of joy. And we all deserve to have joy in in our lives in general.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Amen to that. Yes. Well, Melly, I feel like we could continue this dialogue for much longer, but I know we've been conversing for some time now, and I know I've gotten so much value from our discussion. And I know early on and throughout our conversation, you've alluded to wearing multiple hats and doing things outside of your day-to-day. And so, if others are interested in learning more about you and your other endeavors, where's the best place for them to find you and connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Sure. So my website is just my name, MelanieSueHicks.com. That is always a great place to connect with all of the things that I'm doing. But I am on Instagram as InPursuit Mel Sue. And I also have a small publishing house focused on first-time and emerging authors called Inked Elephant Publishing House. So any burgeoning writers out there that want to chat about anything, writing and publishing, I'm happy to do that too. But yeah, I just I love talking to folks. You can find me on LinkedIn under my name. I love connecting with folks, so never be shy. If anyone's listening and wants to connect further on any of the things we talked about or anything else, I'm happy to do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Awesome. And who knows, maybe our discussion, I know you said you're great in person, but if people across the country are reaching out to you digitally, this will be your motivator to have more of a digital presence.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

There you go. There you go. Sign up on Instagram. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Follow Melanie. So, well, thank you for being here today. And I look forward to reconnecting again soon.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yes, thank you so much. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Take care. Thank you for tuning in to dialing in. I hope this conversation brought you something meaningful. Whether it's a new way to lead through complexity, a reminder of the power of connection, or simply the comfort of knowing you're not navigating leadership alone. If you found value in today's episode, I'd be grateful if you'd share it with a colleague, a leader in your circle, or someone who could benefit from the insights we explored. The more leaders we bring into this dialogue, the more positive change we can create. And if you have a story of disconnection, reconnection, or breakthrough that you think would help others, I'd love to hear from you. Reach out, tell me a bit about your journey, and let's explore whether it could be a fit for a future episode. This episode of Dialing In was produced by Michael Osborne of 14th Street Studios, edited by Talia Analy, and mixed by Morgan Honaker. Until next time, keep dialing in one moment of connection at a time.