Pressure-Proof Leadership: How to Lead with Humanity Without Losing Accountability w/ Sabina Nawaz

Have you ever been so focused on delivering results that you didn’t realize how your pressure was landing on the people around you?

In this episode of Dialing In, Jule sits down with Sabina Nawaz—executive coach, keynote speaker, leadership expert, and author of You’re the Boss.

Sabina shares a defining leadership moment that forced her to confront an uncomfortable truth: even with good intentions, the way she was showing up under pressure was creating distance between herself and her team.

What began as a candid conversation became a powerful lesson in self-awareness, accountability, and the hidden ways power can shape workplace dynamics. Sabina’s story is a reminder that leaders don’t always see the full impact of their behavior, especially when they are moving fast, carrying responsibility, and trying to deliver.

For leaders navigating high expectations, constant change, and the pressure to perform, this conversation offers a clear reminder: intention and impact are not always the same.

In this episode, Sabina and Jule discuss:

• How power and pressure can quietly erode trust
• How to create safer channels for honest feedback
• Why accountability starts with the leader
• Why caring for people and holding high standards are not competing priorities
• The small daily habits that help leaders strengthen connection before it breaks

This episode is for any leader who has ever felt the weight of responsibility and wondered how to keep delivering without losing connection with the people they lead.

Because connection is rarely lost in one big moment.

It is built—or broken—in the small moments that happen every day.

And those moments matter more than we think.

Connect with Sabina:

Website: https://sabinanawaz.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabinanawaz/

Connect with Jule:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julesalem/
Website: www.julesalem.com

Dialing In is a leadership podcast for operators, executives, and founders building under pressure. Each episode explores how connection—when it’s intentional—becomes a true performance advantage.

Join us and subscribe to the show to be the first to hear new episodes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Jewel, to me, connection is the oxygen of success. It underpins everything we do. Imagine the last time you were excited about working on something. Likely you felt seen, you felt heard, you felt loved, you felt appreciated. We do our jobs regardless because we're paid to do our jobs, but we sparkle when we have connection because it really feeds into us wanting to put in that discretionary effort, us going above and beyond, us doing our best work.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Welcome to Dialing In. I'm your host, Jules Salem, and this is the podcast where we talk about the real work of leadership. Not just the wins, but the moments that force us to grow, recalibrate, and reconnect. In today's episode, I'm joined by Sabina Nawaz, a globally respected executive coach, speaker, and author of You're the Boss. Sabina has spent more than 20 years coaching senior leaders and executives, and her work has earned top praise from some of the most respected voices in leadership. I'm excited to have Sabina on the show because her work sits right at the intersection of pressure, power, and connection. Three forces every leader has to navigate when the pace is fast, expectations are high, and people are looking to them for clarity. In our conversation, Sabina shares a powerful personal leadership moment when she realized pressure had changed the way she was showing up for her team. From there, we talk through the power gap, why people often hesitate to tell leaders the truth, how pressure can quietly damage connection, and what it takes to rebuild trust when we miss the mark. So if you're leading through pressure, trying to move fast, and want to build a team that performs at a high level while maintaining connection, this conversation is for you. Let's dial in.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

It was definitely a major moment. Leading up to that, when I first started managing people, I was working on products at Microsoft, and people told me I was the best manager they'd had. I cared about them, I coached them, I invested a lot in them. Those were great years.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

When they were telling you that at that time, did you feel like that rang true for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Very much so. I really cared about the people on my team, advocated for them. So it was great to be noticed and recognized. I didn't go about thinking, yeah, look at me, I'm a great boss.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Let me pat myself on the back.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, but when they told me, I got really curious. I said, what is it? And they said, you care about us, you spend time with us. You know, all those things that undergird connection, that accrue to connection. But then everything changed. I was working in HR, running management development. My manager left the company. I was seven months pregnant and took on her job in addition to mine. I go on parental leave. So now here I am, first day coming back from leave. And as I'm putting on lipstick for the first time in five months, my assistant Lori calls me, frantic. Where are you? Steve expects you in 30 minutes. Lori starts to read me the memo. I'm supposed to discuss with Steve Bomber, the CEO of Microsoft, while I hit warp speed on the freeway. On your first day back. On my first day back. And Jewel, of course, yes, exactly. That set the pace and tone for my return to work. I've got schedule packed, inbox overflowing, infant at home. So no sleep, no peace, no patience. Here I am, snippy and short, five foot three short, but also short-tempered, micromanaging. All of those things that I write about are traps in the book. The worst part of this, again, because power distances us, is I had no idea. I thought I was slaying it. I was doing a great job. I was being efficient and getting a ton done until my colleague Joe stops by. When Joe stops by, I'm like 10 fingers on the keyboard looking over my shoulder. I'm very busy. What's up? You know, get on with it. What do you need from me? And Joe goes, Zach is crying in his office because of what you said. Yeah, how did that land? Yes. Oh my gosh. First of all, like I had difficulty swallowing, and my whole body got hot with shame. My palms were sweating, the tips of my ears were red. I just, Jewel, I thought, how did I get here? How did I go from being the best boss ever to somebody people are afraid of and really don't like? So I drink a glass of water, walk over the hall to Zach's office and knock on his door. Would you go for a walk with me? And I say, Zach, I'm so sorry. There is no excuse for how I behaved in that meeting. And his eyes brimmed with tears. It is in that moment that I had this realization that this is what I want to treat people with humanity, to connect human to human.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

And it sounds like you had been doing that before you went on leave and kind of came back with all of this added pressure on you. Were you seeing any of the signs? Or even internally, when you found yourself maybe reacting shorter than normal or not taking the time to show perhaps that you really care. Were you noticing those signals? Or you're like, I just got so much I gotta get done and let me keep plowing ahead.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yep. I was plowing ahead. Well, under pressure, we tend to tunnel in, we tend to compartmentalize as research shows. And as I said, not only was I not noticing it, I actually thought it was doing a great job. Wow. Yeah. And this is true for just about every single executive I coach. When I interview people who work with them, they talk about that boss that they're working for. Well, guess what? No boss wakes up in the morning saying, I want to be that boss. I want to be the harbinger of misery and pressure on my people and tank my.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Let me make people's lives miserable.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Let me make people's lives miserable. They think they're doing this to win. They think they're motivating their people and it's having the opposite result. And guess what? Nobody will tell you because nobody wants to tell the person in a position of power what they don't want to hear. So, yes, I had no clue, and neither do my clients until we surface this information. Now, I want to say that those of you listening to this, you might go, well, good for you that you're an executive coach and you can work with your high-flying clients. I don't have a coach, nor am I going to have one. How do I do this? Right. At the end of the book is a set of 42 questions called 360 yourself. 360 is a process where we interview people surrounding that person, 360 degrees, and getting that feedback. Well, you can do that for yourself by answering these questions and identify which particular pressure pitfalls or power gaps you are most susceptible to or that you're in the midst of right now, and just go to that chapter in the book. Now, if you don't want to answer 42 questions or read the book, here are three questions to get you started. Does anyone ever disagree with you or bring up an idea that's different from yours? Are you the only one coming up with ideas and things to discuss in the meeting? And third, do you use ya but as a justified stance? As in, let's say when Joe told me that Zach was crying in his office, if I said yeah, but whatever it is. Here's all my reasons why. Exactly. Let look at all the pressure I'm under, you know, the people I'm working for, etc. So those are three signs that you might want to start paying attention to what you're doing under pressure.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

You know, and I feel like these days, especially the pressure can be so high, right? There's this sense of urgency for delivering results across organizations. What do you see as some of the signals or warning signs that leaders should be looking for? I mean, I know you mentioned kind of the three questions, but I know, for example, myself, I equate it to the room often tells you before the report does. You know, to your point, like sensing when people are being quiet and not being open about other ideas, you know, outside of the three questions that you just mentioned, what are even just some of the symptoms that you think leaders should keep an eye on and be mindful of?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Well, Jewel, as you said, reading the room and the things you're talking about, those are great signals. Another thing you could do is look for signals of your own. So are you talking more than everybody else combined? And research on power shows that we often tend to talk more. And under pressure, we talk even more. What do you do about it? I very affectionately ask my clients to exercise their shut up muscle. That means be the fourth or fifth person to talk, not the first. Let others bring up their ideas so that a more diverse range of things can take seed before you've put in yours. That adage of listening more than you are talking. Yes. Yes. So if you're talking disproportionately more than others, that would be another warning sign.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Okay, that's a good one. Real quick, before we get too far away from the moment of disconnect that you were describing, I think one thing that comes up with a lot of leaders I speak to, I mean, you describe, you know, okay, someone brought this to your awareness, and it sounds like you took it to heart and then immediately went to your direct report to apologize. If a leader, we're all human, we're not going to be perfect all the time, as well-intended as we may be, when we have those moments where we do something that impacts trust or the relationship as a whole, from your experience in going and apologizing and having the self-awareness, how can leaders best restore that when a moment of disconnect has occurred? What a great question.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

So if I've done this, what do I do? Right. How do we start to restore and rebuild? Yes. And we have realized that and we do want to restore and rebuild. We're not doing a yah but in the situation. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Well, firstly, mind your apology. So many apologies. I'm just doing a 360 process for somebody, and the feedback I'm getting is this person has non-apology apologies. Right? They're like blaming it on whatever else. So it's not, I'm sorry you feel that way. It's not, oh, I was sick. It is, I am genuinely sorry. I take accountability for this. What can I do to make it right? So that's step number one is a real apology, not a deflective one, or not one where you're expecting the bur placing the burden on someone else. The second one is what can I do to make it right? Because it might look different for different people. With your good intentions, you might have a harmful impact when you try to make it right by and you end up making it even worse. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

What do you think that we can do to foster real answers to that? Right? Like how you were describing power and authority, and okay, my boss screwed up and was a real jerk, and they're saying sorry. Now they are asking what they can do to make it better. I don't know that I can give a real answer. How can we help foster and encourage that?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Spot on, such a great question, Jewel. I'll tie this with feedback, which is that the quality of feedback we receive is directly proportional to the quality of question we ask. Okay. So if I say, Do you have any feedback for me? The answer is going to be, no, you're doing great. If I say, How did I do in that meeting? They'll say you did great. So that's reassurance, not feedback. So make it small and make it specific. What's one thing I did that went well? What's one thing I can do to further improve? Now, even that might be too hard for somebody when the power distance is too big. So make it third person. If my fan were in that room, what's one thing they would say I did well? And if my critic were in that room, what's one thing they would say I need to further improve? So now I, as the direct report, don't have to even own that. I could say, well, you know, obviously I'm your number one fan, whether that's true or not. But if your worst critic were there, this is what they might say. And then you have a chance of getting something closer to the truth. So similarly with the apology, what's one thing that I could do that would further improve the situation? What's one thing that I'm already doing that you want me to do moral? That would be another way to frame that question. So making it small, making it really specific. It eliminates the possibility of the answer of, oh, you're fine. Or it being too general. Too general. Exactly. You do want it to be actionable. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah. I love what you just said there, which I'm gonna use that, almost putting it in the third person. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because I think even if someone was asking me to do that for them, it feels safer. Yes. Like it's not necessarily coming directly from you. And that sounds like a great way to get more honest answers and feedback. Yeah. As we talk about pressure in the workplace, leaders can better balance showing that they care with being able to hold people accountable. Sometimes I feel like that balance gets either one side heavier than the other. And how can they make sure that they're doing both at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

You're naming a very common concern, Jewel. Clearly, you're connected with your audience of like, well, if I show too much care, they get a swollen head and they're not going to do anything, and we're going to slide down into mediocrity or worse. Oh, if I turn the screws too tightly, then they're going to not be productive because they feel bullied or worse. Sure. So this is actually a false dichotomy. It is a false dichotomy. The more you care, the more accountable you can hold people. Think of it this way: brakes make a car go faster. Because when I know I have fantastic brakes, I can accelerate and decelerate a lot faster and still be safe and not rear-end the car ahead of me. Similarly, when I care about you, when I show concern, when I'm supportive of whatever else might be going on in your life, I have gained currency. I have gained connection. I have gained trust. So when I am saying something about, and I need you to do this at a higher quality, faster speed, whatever it might be, they're ready to listen. They're motivated to listen because it becomes a social contract. I do this for you, you do this for me. It also blends in the care with the accountability. So, because of course you want to have clear boundaries. You're all there to get a job done. You're all getting paid, I hope, to get that job done. So this isn't just a walk in the park with your girlfriend. There is an expectation. And that expectation is much more likely to be met when I show that I care.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

So to piggyback off that, a question that I get often is well, how do I show that I care and that I want to know them as people without crossing the like, even sometimes I'm admittedly surprised. I'll have leaders tell me, well, I don't know what to ask my team besides work. Right. Even, you know, in my view, it could be something as simple as, hey, what are you doing for fun this weekend? Right? You know, provides the opportunity to get more insight in other people. What feedback and advice do you give others if they feel like they're balancing that? How do I know what to ask to show that I genuinely care? Especially if it's trying to get to know them as people beyond the limits of work responsibilities.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I'll give you some examples of questions. Before I do, I would say make sure it's a question you genuinely want the answer to. Yes. The weekend question becomes problematic when it's so token. Just about every meeting on a Monday or a Tuesday becomes, what did you do last weekend? And meetings Wednesday onwards become, what are you going to do next weekend? But a lot of times it's a checking the box small talk. Like perfunctory question. Perfunctor. That's a great word for it. So you really want to genuinely care. For example, if you do do the weekend question, you might then go on Monday and say, So you said you were going to go on that hike. How did that go? Yes. Or were you able to go take care of your ailing mother-in-law and how is she doing? So you show that you carry it forward. You have a through line to show that caring and curiosity, genuine curiosity. Now there's a lot of other things you can do as well if the weekend question is perfunctory. It's similar to the how are you question, which in North America is very perfunctory. When I first came to the US and people asked me that question, I would start to launch into a long recounting of what's going on. And then I read it. We just wanted to hear fine with a smile. That's all we want. You know, put a smile on it. And oh, there's no room for anything else.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

That's so true, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

So similarly with a manager and an employee or teams with your colleagues, you could do a little ritualistic exercise at the beginning and end of each meeting. I do this with many group coaching sessions I run. We do a one-word check-in, one-word check-in, one word or phrase that captures your frame of mind right now. On how they're doing. Where they are. Like someone might say I'm hungry, someone says I'm exhausted, someone says I'm pumped up, and so on. Right? You don't go into any details. You just go, thank you. Now, if somebody says something that intrigues you or concerns you, you can follow up with them one-on-one. Or you can say, Wow, I hear you, I'm going to be following up with you if they say something really or chattering. At the end of the meeting, you do the same thing. One word that captures your frame of mind right now. Another 120 seconds. Again, someone might say still hungry, might say confused, they might say frustrated, they might say excited, they might say energized. It's a great way to connect coming into the meeting, and it's a great way to get feedback on the meeting. So here's another way you can get feedback, especially when there is that power gap, by simply asking people to share what's top of mind for them. Now, again, they may or may not reveal the real truth of what's going on. They might put that smile on their face and go, fine. But if you do this consistently as a practice, they know you genuinely want to know. And it becomes more habitual. So it becomes less scary for people.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

That they can give the real answer. That's a great pulse check, especially that you do it at the start and end of a meeting. So hopefully the end of meeting one word is often more positive than the starting. You'd hope, but you never know.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

You never know. And when I run these group coaching sessions, that is the case like 95% of the time. So that's like then wonderful data as well. Okay, so these things are going well. We should keep doing this kind of stuff. And when there isn't, you also get curious about it, and it's an opportunity to improve on those things.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, as you've described, you work with and coach a lot of executive leaders. What has been like a common theme that you've been seeing recently as far as what they're struggling with the most? How long do we have for this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

It is very related to pressure. The pressures on us right now are at a super high level. In my working life, in that span, I see the pressures higher than I've ever seen it before. One of those pressures is the pace of change. Especially the closer you are to technology, the more people are feeling that pinch. Where they're having to change course completely in as short a period as three months. They're worried that because see, the old ways of managing no longer work. Old ways of managing, we'd say, here's our plan, here's our plan for the year, or even three years or five years. That's a joke right now.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Because you're outdated if you try to.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah, outdated in three months. So, how do I maintain trust with my people when I'm going to quote unquote change course and change my mind every three months? It's a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yes. Well, I think even just that point alone, you raised such an important point with the increasing level of obviously AI being a continuous buzzword these days, and how quickly organizations are feeling the pressure to roll that out. What are your thoughts on how organizations can keep up with that pace while still maintaining the connection and humanity within their organization?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Here's the thing: no matter how much of a rush we're in, we still need to breathe in and breathe out. We still need to sleep, we still need to eat. All these basic things. Connection is that basic. If you don't do it, it will slow you down. So when people say, I don't have time for niceties, I don't have because they also conflate niceties with connection. I don't have time for connection, they pay. Because here's the research bosses who don't treat employees, guess what the employees do? They take revenge. They play video games, or worse, even deliberately make mistakes. Think about that. They deliberately sabotage their own results just to get back at the boss who's disconnected, unappreciative, in a rush, huffing around. So you've got to take that time. Now, this doesn't have to be a huge investment of time because you, of course, don't have that. As a trained engineer, everything has to be really pragmatic for me. And so I am a huge fan of microhabits. Something that you do, it's so ridiculously small that the cost of doing it is lower than the cost of not doing it and beating yourself up about it. A microhabit and connection might be one text to one person going, hey, thinking of you today. Have a great day. That's it. Yeah, simple. I mean, how hard is that to do? No matter how much of a rush you're in, you can do that. The people I work with are all overachievers. And so they were like, Yeah, yeah, microhabit, but I'm gonna start bigger. I'm gonna text 15 people. I'm like, yeah, you do that. And then, you know, two weeks later I go, how's it going? Oh, yeah, I actually forgot about doing that.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah, that sounds like the I'm gonna go to the gym every day when I've been going zero.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yes, right. So instead of going to the gym every day, what about one push-up a day? One. And they all laugh. And then I go, Well, you can laugh all you want, but can you just do that? Yeah, of course I can do that. Great. Six months later they're doing 30 push-ups, which they wouldn't have done if they had started by thinking they were gonna go to the gym every day. Exactly. So microhabits, the only way to overachieve is to underachieve, is doing it in really small ways. So, what's your one small connection microhabit that you will do every day?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Because I know from my own experience, even it is to your point, just those small micro moments that make the biggest difference. Even something as simple as like, hey Joe, how's your day going? Or what can I do to better support you on XYZ project? That I think a lot of leaders take for granted. They think, oh, that that's not really gonna make a difference if I pause, you know, and ask the question. But it really is just the smallest of things that often have the biggest impact.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Absolutely. And we underestimate the power of our power, of our position. So especially when it's coming from somebody who's in a position of power over you. In other words, they literally have more power over you about your raise, your bonus, the work you do, your very job. Right. It makes a huge difference. It goes a long way. But you know, Jewel, I'm gonna pick an example that's alive for me in this moment right now. Right before you started recording, you asked a very simple question. How can I support you? How can I help you? And I said, hey, you think of keynotes, you think about curriculums, people who are looking for manager curriculum. What I said was less important, the fact that you even asked that question immediately woke me up at a different level. I am so motivated to do an as best a job as I can on your podcast to support you. Because you started by saying, How can I support you? It's such a simple question. And yet, after having done, I don't know, a hundred or more podcasts, this is the first time I heard that question at the beginning of a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Are you serious? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

That's always so surprising to me. And well, first I appreciate you saying that. I think that leads me to a question that I'm often pondering. Because I always ask that because I genuinely want to help other people, right? I mean, that that's what fills me up. Yeah. But even as we talk about connection in the workplace and taking the time to check in with our team and support them, how can we help other leaders see the benefit in doing that and not just approaching it from a transactional standpoint? I know I was talking to someone the other day, and they're like, oh yeah, you know, anyone can be taught to ask the questions or what questions, you know, ask their team. But what do you think we can do to help leaders see the genuine benefit, even for themselves, in wanting to do that from uh a genuine place?

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yes. Well, I mean, they could read the research on the kinds of chemicals this releases in our bodies. Going back to your question of how can I help you? Let me be clear. There are many podcast hosts who ask that question, but usually at the end, once we're done recording, as opposed to before. So that's a tactic in itself, is ask up front. Give it away up front. This is not a who-done it novel where you have to hold on till the end.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Just give it away versus like waiting for them to give you something first.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yes, just do it. And then what I would say is be an anthropologist in your own life. Why don't you try something out, an act of generosity, again, in a microhabit way. Do it for a week and notice what happens. Yeah. Notice what responds. I'm always amazed. Yes, exactly. Right? Like in this case, I'm already sort of a high energy, high passion kind of person. That's how I roll. But it further boosted that for me. It was this dopamine shot that you gave me. Or is it oxytocin, you know, the connection between us? The mood boosting. The mood boosting. Yes. Right. And so you've got data now. Oh, that helped at least one podcast guest. Sure. Is that going to help you do it again? Probably. You probably do this anyways, all the time. But collect some data.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

That's great input. Well, uh, Saviona, I know you've mentioned your book, which I do have here for those that are listening and not seeing us on video, but it's called You're the Boss. And I had a couple questions. But first, as a quick side note, I was highly impressed. You have accolades from some very well-known names and authors that I have frequented, including Adam Grant, Kitten Scott, and Amy Edmondson, to name a few. And seeing that you've been in leadership and helping leaders for, I think, 20 plus years now, I was interested to get your feedback on what inspired you to want to write the book now.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

The old ways of managing are not going to work in the world that we find ourselves in, which is in a moment of huge disruption, huge reckoning, massive pressure. I've been sitting on 12,000 pages of data through the interviews that I do from the people who work with the executives I coach for a while. But it just all came to a boil, so to speak, in this moment. Because we've got to bust the common myths through which we've managed. And in fact, I do that in the very second chapter of the book. These established tropes that we need to actually dethrone in order to move forward in this moment.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

What do you see as the biggest thing that is contributing to the current disconnect? I know you mentioned like the pace of technological change, but even from a human element, is there something you see?

SPEAKER_00 31:05

One of the big things is what I call the singular story trap. Because of the pace of change, because of the pressure, and because my clients are experienced people who haven't been successful by failing a lot, but by succeeding and being right a lot, they very quickly jump to a conclusion. And that conclusion is an assumption. It's not fact. But because of their power, when they state it, it becomes the fact, the conclusion. And no one else is going to argue or debate with that. They're going to go forward and execute on it. In many ways, the more experience you have, the more authority you have, the less well suited you are to meet this moment. You're going to call upon that past experience and your seniority to very quickly get to a conclusion and shut other voices down. This is a moment we cannot navigate alone. And we have to go through all ranks of power. Likely the truth, the right assumptions are going to come from people who are less established in old ways of doing. Because those who are established in old ways of doing first need to unlearn before they can learn.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

And with that, I think you just brought us full circle to the importance of connection, getting input from others, soliciting feedback, which really ties into my own core philosophy of connection being the ultimate performance driver in the workplace. So I think you just hit that nail on the head. So as we look to wrap up, Sabina, I know others from our conversation are going to be interested in learning more about the work you're doing, making sure that they pick up a copy of your book on Amazon. Again, it's you're the boss. It's hard to miss. It's red and yellow and with black lettering. But if they want to connect with you personally and learn more, what is the best way for them to find you?

SPEAKER_00 33:07

The best way is to just go to my website, Julesabinanawaz.com, which I'm sure will be in the show notes.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

You can fill out a contact form. You can follow my Substack called Pressure Proof, where emails go out once a month on free resources and how to pressure proof yourself. You can also order the book. And by the way, once you've ordered the book, you can also download for free a number of tools that can help you manage pressure and power.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

That's awesome. I hope everyone goes and checks that out so they can get the benefit of that. But Sabina, thank you so much for being with us today. I've really enjoyed our conversation and look forward to seeing what work you continue to do ahead. Thanks for the connection, Jules. Absolutely. Thank you for tuning in to dialing in. I hope this conversation brought you something meaningful. Whether it's a new way to lead through complexity, a reminder of the power of connection, or simply the comfort of knowing you're not navigating leadership alone. If you found value in today's episode, I'd be grateful if you'd share it with a colleague, a leader in your circle, or someone who could benefit from the insights we explored. The more leaders we bring into this dialogue, the more positive change we can create. And if you have a story of disconnection, reconnection, or breakthrough that you think would help others, I'd love to hear from you. Reach out, tell me a bit about your journey, and let's explore whether it could be a fit for a future episode. This episode of Dialing In was produced by Michael Osborne of 14th Street Studios, edited by Talia Anilli, and mixed by Morgan Honaker. Until next time, keep dialing in one moment of connection at a time.