Why You Keep Repeating the Same Relationship Mistakes And How to Finally Break the Cycle

Dr. Michelle P. Maidenberg joins Stephanie Hoffman to explore why we get stuck in relationship patterns and how emotional avoidance quietly erodes intimacy. She explains how the brain prioritizes safety and familiarity, often keeping us trapped in repeated behaviors, and why uncomfortable emotions are actually signals tied to our values.

The conversation dives into the ACE Method Acceptance, Compassion, and Empowerment and how these pillars help individuals build deeper, healthier relationships. Dr. Maidenberg highlights the importance of radical acceptance, self compassion, and values based decision making rather than reacting from fear or emotion.

They also discuss re parenting the inner child, navigating intergenerational trauma, and improving communication through vulnerability. Drawing from her work with end of life patients, Dr. Maidenberg shares a powerful reminder that the biggest relationship regret is not expressing love and authenticity while there is still time.

Actionable takeaways include practicing daily self awareness, embracing discomfort for growth, conducting values reviews, and prioritizing meaningful connection over avoidance.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome back to Headcase. I'm Stephanie Hoffman. This season we're getting real about the messiest parts of being human. Let's dive in. Welcome back to Headcase. I'm your host, Stephanie Hoffman, and today we are joined by a powerhouse in the world of mental health and emotional resilience. Dr. Michelle Maidenberg is a psychotherapist with over 30 years of clinical experience, a TED speaker, and an adjunct professor of mindfulness practice at NYU. She's the author of the award-winning book Ace Your Life, Unleash Your Best Self and Live the Life You Want, where she teaches us how to break through the stuckness of our lives using her signature Ace method. Beyond her practice, she's also the co-founder of the nonprofit Through My Eyes, which helps chronically ill individuals leave video legacies for their loved ones. And today we're diving deep into the psychology of relationships, the trap of emotional avoidance, and how we can use the pillars of acceptance, compassion, and empowerment to transform our connections with others and ourselves. So, Dr. Maidabh, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So I just wanted to dive right in and talk to you about kind of this foundation of stuckness. And you say that you talk about stuckness in work and love. So for our listeners who feel like they're repeating the same relationship patterns, how can you tell the difference between a rough patch and it being actually like psychologically stuck?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Right. Or it being like a pattern, a perpetual murder, right? Yes. So that's a great question. None of that has ever been asked, though. Kudos to you. Great. Um, yeah, stuckness, that's a big word. And it varies from person to person. We all have stuckness, including myself. Right. We we we have challenges that come up in our lives, right? Where we feel stuck. And, you know, when you're talking about differentiating between a moment-to-moment circumstance and a real stuckness that keeps us, let's say, perpetuating the same cycle of behavior, the same patterns of behavior, which could be very frustrating, obviously, and disappointing and sad. Um, so just to differentiate between the two, right? Um, I think in our lives we have challenges that come out, right? That are out of our control. Stuckness really speaks to yes, repeating patterns of behavior. And what we don't work on and we don't heal will perpetuate itself. It's inevitable. It's in life, in relationship. That's just the way it is. Why is that? It's because of our reptilium breeding. Right. It all goes back to neuroscience, literally. It all goes to our neurocognitive functioning. Our brain takes the path of least resistance. Right. It does not like to work hard. Right. So if it is familiar and it is comfortable, it's going to repeat that pattern of behavior. And there's some beauty in it too, because our mind and body knows when we haven't effectively worked through something, and it keeps repeating those circumstances to give us opportunities to actually heal, which is which is actually wonderful if you think about it that way. Yeah. Right? Absolutely. Um, it's a more empowering approach to think about it as opportunities rather than like this stuckness or this debilitation where you can't just get, you know, kind of rape um out of your own way. So you will see the same type of person in your life. You'll see the same type of behavior, you know, you'll see the same type of habit repeating itself over and over and over again. Right. And sometimes it's it looks different, but it's the same old thing. Right? It could be a different, like whatever, you know? Yeah. But it is, it could lead to the same emotion getting evoked. It could lead to the same perpetual. And that's also another thing. We habituate over emotions. Right, right. So if it's anger or sadness or whatever the case is, that's going to be familiar and comfortable too. You know, and an example in relationships, which you know, we hear that's talked about a lot, is sometimes if you're used to, let's say in your family of origin, this drama, right? This constant up and down and push and pull, right? We mistake passion for that. Right.

unknown 4:39

Right?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah. That's such a good answer. Um and in your your TED talk, you talk about uh circumventing emotional avoidance. In a relationship context, what does emotional avoidance look like? And what exact what how does it actually erode the intimacy that we try to protect in a relationship?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So again, great question. And I'm so appreciating your thoughtful questions. I really love it when I have thoughtful questions because it like makes me really challenges me to think a little bit, right? I'm glad I appreciate that you really put time and effort into thinking about this. Yeah. Um, so emotional avoidance, what is it, right? Because people are like, what is that? That is uh by very nature, because of our brain, it's an executive functioning that avoids danger and discomfort. Right. When we think about our brain, where it's so sophisticated, but it really isn't. It really isn't. And I compare it often to our PC.

unknown 5:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

When we think about our PC, I don't know about you, I I just because I don't, I don't understand, you know, the mechanism. I don't understand right um how it all works, even with AI right now. I mean, gosh, it's like mind-blowing, right? Like you think it has a brain. Yeah. So sophisticated. Right. But what you really now, if you really think about it, the only thing that your PC is able, right, to provide for you is anything that you've programmed into it.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Nothing more than that, even though it seems like it's doing a lot more sophisticated processes, right? Right. That's so true. That's how our brain is. It's that what you feed it. What you feed it is what you get out of it. Right. But its major major functioning is really to avoid danger and discomfort. It is wired that way. It is constantly wired for survival.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

And what about when something is safe, but your brain mistakes that as danger because it's not used to that safety?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

That's right. And that's this, but it's the same, that's that same mechanism. Right. Whatever is perceived, right? Perceived danger or perceived discomfort, it doesn't have to actually be dangerous. Right. Okay, that makes sense. Like, like when we're going on, like there are a lot of people that I work with that have phobias, right? Yeah. And it's it's safer to ride in a car than it is to go on a plane, but right, the person is petrified to get on the plane. Right. Right. And even though cognitively they know, right, that again, it's taking a risk like anything. If I walk down the street, I'm taking a risk too. Totally. Right. But they get a phobic, somatic response to their fears, right? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. It just happens. And that's the way our brain is, too. You know, so we're constantly avoiding. So what is in that, what is in that framework is also negative emotions. Right. Okay. Negative emotions are perceived by our brain as dangerous and contributes to our discomfort and is uncomfortable. So guess what? It's going to avoid it like the plague.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

That makes a lot of sense. And we get really scared and we don't understand the utility. Like, why do we have to feel anger? And why do we have to feel disappointment? And why do we have to feel frustration? A good example that that you know came up. So somebody came into my person, they were so distressed and frustrated. And I was like, What's going on? And they said, Oh my goodness. Like, I'm so angry at myself because I'm angry that I'm angry at my ex-husband. And I said, Why are you so angry at your ex-husband? It was my nine-year-old child's, you know, daughter's birthday. Yeah. And the the son of a bitch, you know, he couldn't get his act together to call her. He called her at nine o'clock at night, right before she went to bed. And she was so, so upset and disappointed. Why shouldn't he hear from him all day? What is wrong with me? Why can't I just accept the fact that he is, you know, right? Yeah. And I said to her, Good for you. I love that you're so upset right now. And she was like, What? I said, Of course I'm not happy that you're upset. But uh, would you really want to be okay with that? Right. Would you want to be okay with being okay? Right. I said, doesn't that connect you to your values, your parenting values? Exactly. And who you are, what it represents. I said, curse away.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah. Ex-husband for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Right. Yeah, exactly. I said, go. And then she, you could see, like she all of a sudden just felt the weight lifted from her. And she was excited to curse and to and to ventilate her frustration. Right. And I said, sometimes there are pain and values, and there are values and pain. And we need that reminder. We need that reminder to because it connects us to who we are on a fundamental, authentic level and what we stand for. So we are in this cycle of constantly emotionally avoiding. And we need to recognize that. I can't tell you, people come into my office all the time. I don't want to feel this way. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

You're familiar.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah. I was like, good luck. Yeah. Because again, would you not would you really, what does that say about you if you actually don't have a feeling about it? Right. I mean, you're human. So well, and also what does that say about who you are and what you represent? Right. Yeah. Even more importantly, so that you could connect the emotions and actually be proud of them, not chastise yourself for having them. Because what we know is the more you chastise yourself, the more you resist, it intensifies the feeling and it contributes negatively to your self-confidence. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

And you talk about does he? Yes. I was going to say you talk about the inner commentator. And I guess that's tied to that is it's that internal voice that kind of dictates how we show up in relationships or don't. And I guess that has to do with that avoidance, or it's like avoiding whether it's avoiding that positive emotions or the negative emotions, constantly fighting with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Yeah. It it goes it holds true for positive as well. Yeah. By the way. Yeah. Right. So that um intimacy and relationships is so critical to a healthy relationship. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And when we when I talk to, I I had a client here the other day, for example, and you know, she's here because, you know, there's a lot of challenges that are coming up in her marriage. You know, she has a huge history, a traumatic history. And then she has a she had a huge trauma where she was like brutally raped in her 20s. I mean, it was yeah, horrible. Um, but you could imagine, all right, you could imagine a lot to carry, and then she's expected to be intimate and like authentic and great in her intimate relationship. Really hard. Yeah. So so it's it's also, I said to her, I said, what would it be like for you to hug your husband for one minute a day? And when you actually hug him, you close your eyes and you feel into the hug, you connect thematically with those emotions. Right? Because when we give a hug, we just you know hug and right. But to actually feel that and you had to see the reaction. It was so uncomfortable. She goes, she said to me, She goes, You're not gonna make me do that, are you? She's like, absolutely not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

I was like, one step at a time, right? Yeah. No, I think that that's such a good practice. Yeah. Just becoming more comfortable to to be more intimate. Because whether it's like physical touch or speaking, some people just have that block.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

We we all do. Yeah, we actually all do. Yeah. Um if I say something very deeply emotional, emotionally like the content to somebody, whether it's yeah, I just have an interaction this morning with somebody, a friend, and and she said to me, You're so warm and you're so kind. And I say, I said back to her, you're lovable. You engender that in me. That's so sweet. Well, but that's the way I speak because I mean it. I I do. I do because I I want every person I believe who I interact with and I have a relationship with knows I love them. Right. And I want them to know that. I want them to know what I love about them. I want them to know how lovable they are. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And and she she was just so overwhelmed. She left me a voice message after. She's like, I don't even know how she's like, that I loved it, but it made me so uncomfortable at the same time. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

That actually brings me to a question that I had about um you talk about legacy and how it's not just about the legacy, an emphasis on legacy after death, but the legacy we leave in our daily interactions. So to me, that is a perfect example. It's like giving people like saying what you feel while you're here so that they know how how you're they're impacted or your you impact them throughout their their day or their week.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah. The issue with that, unfortunately, this talk speaks to relationships in general. Yeah. We're not taught how to be relational. We're not, we're not, we're not taught how to be intimate. And when I say intimate, I'm talking about deep emotional connection. I'm not talking about works and whatever, right? Um, we're not taught about how to express our feelings on a deep emotional level. We're not taught any of those things. When we even talk about ourselves, you know, in a deep emotional way, so uncomfortable. It's so uncomfortable. I have a friend who's who's applying for graduate school. Um, she's a colleague friend, and I I wrote a letter of recommendation for her. And she called me and she said, I I have to tell you, like, again, I love what you wrote, but I don't even, I I can't even like metabolize it because it's uncomfortable. Yeah. And I said, What's uncomfortable for you? And she said, she said, it just, yeah, she said, it brings up so much. Like, I'm scared that I'm not gonna get in and I'm going to disappoint you, and I'm scared that you know, that I can't live live up to those standards. And uh like just so much was coming up just by hearing those words about herself.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like sometimes even in relationships, when you see such potential in someone and you express that, they get more freaked out and scared and kind of go back into themselves because they have their it, they they can't see it themselves. So they end up self-sabotaging in some ways, or you know, not having like a lot of anxiety around that.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

And I could tell you personally, I'll tell you a little personal anecdote. Sure. I couldn't always accept that myself because I didn't grow up that way. Right. And um, I'm dating somebody right now. I'm divorced and I'm dating somebody, and this is the first relationship. I can honestly say that, and I think I'm in that space, that's why I attracted this kind of person. Right. But where he is such a verbal, expressive, like deep, intimate person who's very emotionally intelligent. And and and I have to say, it's like a world of difference. Totally, totally world of different, and and I and I am proud of myself because I could actually hear him, I could actually feel into what he says, and I actually believe it. Yeah. Whoa. Life-changing. Yeah, yeah. And I'm able to also reciprocate, yeah, and feel comfortable and heard and seen. Yeah, and it leads to such deeper connection. Absolutely. But all of that, all of that is a learned process. We're not taught how to be that way. And for him, it's interesting because of his upbringing and what he went through, he was led there too. It wasn't organic for him either.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah, I think also with social media and everything, kind of makes everything worse because people don't interact as much face to face, and they they communicate a lot over text message or you know, over Instagram, and it's all could get becomes confusing and elusive and impersonal.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, and and how many people feel comfortable with all these like emojis and whatever. Yeah. Just don't actually show your emotions. Exactly. Or an infographics. Like they have all the like, I mean, right? But like actually looking in someone's eyes and conveying those words.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

No, it's terrifying, it's like too vulnerable for people to comprehend.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

So uncomfortable, both semantically and emotionally and psychologically. It feels so uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Um, so I wanted to actually talk to you a little bit about the ACE method that you wrote about. Um, so acceptance is the letter A. So many people think acceptance means giving up or settling. Um, how do you define radical self-acceptance within a partnership? And why is that the first step to change?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah. Great question. So, yes, I think that there is a misnomer where people do think that acceptance is accepting mediocrity. Right. And people are fearful of accepting because they feel that that's going to inhibit in some way their motivation. Right. And in relationships, particularly, when we're talking about, you know, radical acceptance, it's again, what you see is what you get. Yeah. Right. And we can't will somebody into changing. We can as much as we want to. And it's there's a lot of judgments. They should be this way, they should be behaving this way, they ought to, they must. Right. And that's okay if we have those needs, but we also have to accept that somebody else may not be in that space. Right. Absolutely. That may not be the best relationship for you, for example, right? Um, I mean, or or if you are going to be accepting. So accepting is about noticing. It's about being open and having full conscious awareness. That's what acceptance is. Right. It's not denying, it's not avoiding, it's not deflecting, it's not getting defensive about it's noticing. Yeah. With full openness and conscious awareness. Wow. That's amazing. It's pretty rare, I feel like. Oh, yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. And by the way, it's a portal. Okay. So triggers are treasures. Right. It's a portal to understanding yourself better. Yeah. Understanding your needs and recognizing if, like, again, how you could connect with the person.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Right. Because it could be a timing issue, even if that person maybe they will get there, but they're not able to in that moment. So they have to, they're just not going to be the person for you at this time.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah. And and it's it's interesting. So, like, again, I'll just talk about my own release chip. Yeah. Comes up. But um, you know, we're all imperfect, right? And um, I'm kind of type A, as you could probably tell. And and I do, I have very high standards. And and my past life, I was pretty judgmental, you know, and and got disappointed because people, you know, weren't meeting my standards, and there was judgment about like who they were because they couldn't meet my standards, etc. I've done a lot of personal work. Yeah. But when that comes up for me, right, when I see faultiness, right? I don't blame. I say, what is that about me that I can't be accepting of that?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

That's a really good way to look at it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah. What is a triggering in me? Nobody triggers me. I get triggered. Yeah, yeah, it's true. And what is that? And then I become curious. Yeah. And I learned something about myself. And I could express myself in a way that's both thoughtful, kind, respectful, and vulnerable. Yeah, absolutely. I could say, you know, when you and there was, I mean, there was an example that came up where I felt, you know, he did something that I that I didn't I didn't get. I was like, it was so to me, according to my standards, was so off the cuff. Yeah. And I and and then and I I had to take a step back and say to myself, like, you're being judgmental. And like, you know, why, you know, did he do this and find out about it? It and and it was more about what it brought up in me. Yeah. My mind spiraled, it was so interesting, into it makes bad judgments and oh my goodness, and like into this whole diatrab of like, you know, and what does that mean to me? What does that mean to our relationship? And now that I'm aging, right? It's like, oh my God, if I'm with this person, and and I literally had this fantasy in my brain, which is again, I just want to show you where our brain goes, right? Right. Of like, I'm gonna be an old lady, you know, an older person, and I'm gonna be stuck in the middle of the street, and you know, this person's gonna have to care for me. And he the decisions, yeah. And he said something the most extreme, yeah. And he said to me, because I said to him what it evoked in me in a very respectful way. And I said, This is about me, this has nothing to do with you. And he actually took responsibility for his part in it, which was beautiful, right? Right. That was really helpful for me. But um, I said, Do you see where my brain goes? Yeah. And then what he said to me, which was so beautiful, he said, Michelle, do you also remember regarding all the good decisions that I make? Yeah, it's true. Because we are human. That's right. And I was like, You see, this is what I need to hear. Like, and I appreciated that. I didn't get defensive. I didn't get it. I was like, this is what is helping me to grow.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Right, exactly. It's like with every bad decision, there is probably five good ones. So it kind of have to outweigh the good with the bad. Um, and then for compassion, the C, um, on Instagram you've shared about the healing power of writing to your inner child. Um, how does reparenting ourselves change the way we react when a partner triggers our insecurities, like you were just talking about?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah. So it's inevitable. And if you're not getting triggered, you're not growing. So I I want to say you gotta be given. Yeah. Because we're we're never finished growing. That's just the way it is, right? So we're never taught to be self-compassionate. I can't say that enough. We're taught to be compassionate towards others, never ever taught to be self-compassionate. So true. Yeah. So it is so pivotal to like in our work to learn to be self-compassionate. And change really comes from that space. In other words, you know, we used to think that if we chastise somebody and tough love gets somebody motivated for change. Now we know it's the opposite. Right. People change when they feel confident about themselves. Yeah. It's so true. So nurturing that inner part of you and doing that inner work is so critical. It's so critical. You cannot have an open, caring, respectful relationship with another person, right? Unless you know your stuff. Yeah, absolutely. You're gonna be bouncing it off each other, and it's gonna lead to a lot of chaos and disagreement and aggression and other things. Right. So it's really important on both people, and that's where that's where trouble comes into relationships, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Right. When two people are not in the same space, and you know, let's say one person is into kind of a growth process or they're kind of into their right, really learning about themselves, um, and another person is really shut down and and really, really, you know, avoids that becomes very problematic.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Right. Right. Cause you're just basically playing a big a game of ping-pong by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

It is, and and it becomes it becomes very frustrating, and that's where resentment comes in. Yeah. So the most important part of deep relationships is empathy and compassion. So whether it's your partner feeling distressed, whether they have, you know, and and again, we feel distressed on multiple levels, right? It could be somatic and a physiological, right? It could be emotional, it could be whatever, you know, comes up. So if you could have come, even though you may not understand it, and even though you may not necessarily have experienced it, yeah, you could still have compassion.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Absolutely. It's like an emotional intelligence to you almost can't hate someone if you have enough emotional intelligence because you just you do have that compassion and that empathy for someone regardless, because you know that it comes from somewhere and that's some something they can't control.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah. A good example of that is I ask, you know, when people tend to be, you know, harsh with themselves and and you know, doubt their soul, you know, their self-worthiness. And I I say to them, you know, what what's your philosophy about people? Do you feel innately that people have worse that people, you know, etc.? And they'll say, of course. And I'll say, Oh, that doesn't apply to you. No. And I'll look at me at the board, yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

We're our own worst critics. Like we the the people say the meanest things to themselves that they would never repeat out loud to another human. And it's really interesting. I mean, the brain believes what you tell it too. So it's the more you say these negative things, the more you believe it, and then it'll transpire into your relationships.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

100%. I just wrote an article for psychology today about self-blame, and it's all about um how um our relationship with our parents, right, could perpetuate that self-blame. And it speaks to all of that. That's where you get like people pleasing and you know, all of those kind of great um adaptations that come up while mentally. It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

I did have a question about that, but first I just wanted to finish the E, empowerment. Um, so you teach about empowerment as a value-based, uh value-based decision making. So, how can a couple move from making decisions based on fear or reactivity and then making them based on the those short shared core values that they actually found in each other?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah. We never want to make decisions based on our thoughts and feelings. Unequivocably. They're not accurate. Yeah, they could be irrational, they could be, yeah, momentary. We we really it has to be based on our values, our core values. Um, and I teach people how to do that. Right. So what's lovely sometimes when I work with couples, it'll is I'll do a values review. And what's beautiful about that is they see, you know, innately where their values align. So any kind of decision making that you're making, both individually and as a couple, could come from that space. Right. Okay. So when there's a disagreement or misunderstanding or whatever the case is, right, and that something's not aligning, what it typically is is a conflict in values. In other words, they may have the same array of values, but they're thinking about one particular value more formative in that situation more than another value. Right. Okay. So if you're able to understand, and this is deep, right? If you're able to conceptualize that and frame it that way, you could say, oh, okay, I get. Like in this situation, not always, right? Because we go to that place. Yeah. That you're seeing this as more important than this. And that's why we're not really aligning. Right. That makes sense. Right. So let's sit down and talk about and think about, you know, how can we come to some like mutual space where both of our needs could be met?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Right. That makes a lot of sense. Because I feel like a lot of people will get in huge fights or have these like toxic breakups or blowout fights or toxic relationships rather, and have breakups based on emotions and feelings that they don't they don't even talk through. So that's really interesting way to way to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

It really, it's really a roadmap for decision making, especially again in couple relationships, because sometimes there's stuckness, obviously, right? Yeah. Um, so even when there's decisions, like sometimes it feels like a dead end. Like, I don't know, if you're disciplining children or whatever, right? Um yeah, there's so many things that come up where there's this kind of standstill. And if you frame it that way, it really helps to glide through it so that you're able to really have mutuality.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah, absolutely. So going back to what you said before, um, kind of intergenerational trauma and you know, even having like emotionally immature parents, it's kind of tied together. Um, how do we stop? I guess two-part question, how do we stop passing the baton on from you know, family trauma to our partners or our children? And then what's your advice for this like emotional detachment to an emotionally unavailable parent or a mature parent without losing the relationship?

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Ooh, that's a big question.

unknown 31:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

So um okay, so I'm gonna take the first part of it. And if I didn't if I don't get all of it, just let me know. But um, so the first part, what I heard you say was about the you know, the context of the couple relationship, right? And how you don't um spill over. Yes. Right from your inner core wounds. Yeah. Again, that has to do with a lot of self-awareness, yeah, right. Yeah, and really understanding what comes up, you know, and when you have that context, the beauty of it is that you could catch yourself and your partner could catch it too. Right. So when it's happening, it's not taken personally, it's not taken defensively, it's like, oh, she's feeling unsafe right now. Right. Oh, she's scared of what, you know, and I I say that like to you know, my partner, I say stuff for me comes out of fear. Yeah. It looks sometimes like aggression or right, and that could be scary. Yeah, absolutely. But I want you to know underneath that is like such vulnerability and fear. So if you see that part of me come out, because that's my adaptation that I used to do as a kid, yeah, I said, call me on it. Because I don't, I don't want to do that. Like you say to me, what are you fearful of? And right away when I hear that, boom.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

You'll center back in. Yeah. Totally. I feel like 99% of the time it's fear.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, it is, it is. And I get vulnerable. I'm like, you know, it's like a little adult. And I'm like, oh god. And then I could I could also hold myself accountable for my baby, right? Totally. Absolutely. Gosh. Yeah, that I did not, that was so not my authentic self. And I really apologize for that. I could really like hone in on that. Um, so I think you have to own your stuff, you have to hold yourself accountable, you have to study yourself, you have to, yeah, that's really, you know, critical. Um, and also when you are communicating, you have to communicate not from the wounded part, right? Right, but from the hurt or the fear or whatever the case is. And I teach people how to do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

So that's a skill. That really is a skill. In terms of, you know, emotional detachment from parents. Um, again, we don't get to choose our parents. Often it is a splinter in a relationship. But so that that's a whole other thing segment. But I'm working with somebody that just came up and she went to go visit her mother, you know, and I did actually EMDR with her, which is that machine right back there. Yeah. Um, some deeper work. And I had her prepare preemptively what it would be like to be in that space with her mom for those days. And it was so amazing. She sent to me, she said, I was so grounded and I was so centered until the last day. Right. Yeah. And something happened and she spilled over, but she said to me, she goes, I'm so appreciative. Because it would usually last two weeks that I was distressed. She said it lasted a couple of hours. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

And I was like, Yay. Yeah. I mean, I feel like if your partner doesn't trigger you the most, your parents will. So it makes a lot of sense. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

And like I said, triggers with treasures, it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so I had a question about your um your nonprofit. So the work you do is very moving. And how has working with people at the end of their lives influenced your perspective on what makes a success a successful relationship in the present? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

So um, my my nonprofit, first of all, is another child. Um, and I do want to just say that I am looking to um restructure. So I am looking for partners and yeah, I really want to do it more on a vast level um nationally. So I want to put that out there. Yeah, absolutely. It's so important. Um if anybody's interested. Um yes, I'll put all the information. Thank you. I really appreciate it. So, yes, there is such it's such a gift to speak to people at end of life and to hear from them what what they find important.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah.

unknown 35:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

I'm a nurse, so I have worked with people at the end of their life a lot. And it is so moving and important to be able to be listen to their experiences up until that point. Because they it comes with a lot of clarity.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Absolutely. And experience, right? And also vulnerability. Absolutely. Yeah. So what do people always say? You know, they say that they spent their time, right, and the priorities in the wrong space. Like that, that's first of all, right? Right. You can't get the time back. That's number one. Working too much. Yeah. And and one thing that sticks out based on, and it it kind of was a theme based on our conversation today, is that they did not communicate in a vulnerable way and express themselves in an authentic, vulnerable way to people they love. Yeah. That is huge. That comes up all the time. Yeah. All the time. And there's a lot of regret around that. I can imagine. And whether it's children, uh, you know, I could I could tell you just one example too for myself. I have four children. Oh, wow. Yeah. I have three boys and a girl on my 25 to 17. So I I make my children really uncomfortable. You have to say because I I want to challenge that part of them. Yeah. Um, but when I like I'll be sitting with my daughter, right? And she's a senior in high school. I'll be sitting with her if this happened, like, you know, um, and we'll be having a conversation. And I stop and I say to her, Cora, I just want to tell you, like, I'm just taking in this moment, and I love that we're sharing and that you're feel like open enough and trusting enough of me to share your feelings. And I just want to tell you how much I adore you and how much this meet this moment means to me.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

She she'd like, Ma, stop it, you know. She gets all like freaked out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah. No, but she'll learn that as she gets older, and that will be so beneficial. She'll expect it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

I want her to expect it. Yeah, absolutely. I want her the I want her to expect that from her partner.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Yeah. She won't settle for anything less after that. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

And I want her to have the verbiage and the sophistication to be able to express it to people she loves. And that's great. It's okay that it's uncomfortable. And I say, I know it's uncomfortable. I know I'm being mom, you know. You know me. Yeah. But there's a part of her that loves it, and I know that too.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Absolutely. It's a really healthy way to parent, too. So that's very key. Um, so if you could leave our listeners with one actionable step to ace their relationship starting right now, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 38:16

To be open to looking at yourself. Okay.

unknown 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

That's great. And to be willing to be uncomfortable. Yeah. To be willing to be uncomfortable, because it it is uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable and it's okay to be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Like it's so okay.

unknown 38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

And I know you do a lot of um like polyvagal theory and ACT and you know, nervous system resets. So what's a tip you can give to someone who's kind of going through a crisis like right now or a breakup or something like that?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Is to always check in. Is to always check in. I I love doing like a body scan or a check-in, you know, especially if you're going through something, you know, adversity is like in in the you know, beginning of the day. And again, I'm I'm a proponent of mindfulness, of course. So that's huge, you know. Uh, but to take the time, like even when you wake up in the morning, close your eyes, check in with your body on a scale from zero to five, rate, how am I feeling?

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

What what emotions am I sitting with? You know, and what, you know, again, mindset am I going into my day with? Right. Check in. That that helps to reset it in a split second.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Excellent advice. Just being self-aware of how you're feeling. Yeah, exactly. And you could do that. I also recommend a values review at the end of the day, which is I I talk about that in my book, but which values did I lean into and which villa values did I lean out of today? And which do I want to focus more on tomorrow? The reason for that is it's a lot more empowering than say, oh my gosh, I was a horrible mother, you know. But like, no, like I didn't lean into my value of parenting today as much as I wanted to, and I'm gonna do it better. That's great advice.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Thank you so much. Well, thank you for coming on my podcast. I'd love to have you on again in the future, talk about some other things. Um, yeah, it was great having you.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Thank you so much for having me. And I loved your question.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Thank you. And I'll put all of your information on under the episode, and hopefully, all our listeners can come find you and maybe even be a bit a patient because it sounds like you really help people. Join our community. Subscribe now to Head Case because breaking the stigma around mental health, that's something we should do together.