Why You Are Still In A Bad Relationship And What To Do About It

Relationship coach Darlene joins Stephanie Hoffman to unpack the emotional aftermath of blindsided breakups and why heartbreak can feel like a full-blown crisis. She explains how the brain and body react in the early stages, why healing is non linear, and how fear often prevents people from reconnecting or moving forward.

The conversation explores no contact, rebound relationships, and whether exes really come back. Darlene also shares why breakups can become powerful turning points for growth, identity rebuilding, and making healthier relationship decisions.

They discuss regret, vulnerability, and the importance of honoring emotions while rebuilding your life. Darlene emphasizes following your own path, embracing discomfort, and doing the work even while hurting.

Actionable takeaways include allowing your emotions, rebuilding your identity, setting goals during heartbreak, and choosing courage over fear in love and relationships.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome back to Headcase. I'm Stephanie Hoffman. This season we're getting real about the messiest parts of being human. Let's dive in. Hi everyone, welcome back to Headcase. Today we're diving into one of the most destabilizing experiences a human can face: the breakup, the one you didn't see coming, the one you didn't want, or the one you did want. When your identity is wrapped up in a we, how do you find me again? Joining us today is Heal with Darlene. Um, she's a relationship coach and the author of Heal with Darlene, recovering from a breakup that you didn't want. Darlene specializes in helping people navigate the storm of divorce and heartbreak, moving on from the initial crisis to a place where of reclaimed power. Darlene, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

And you just you you worded that so beautifully. And we need to put a spotlight on it more than we do. I really feel because we put it under the word breakup, we don't realize this is a life-changing event and one of the worst things anyone could ever go through. So I I love that you're you're saying, okay, we're gonna talk about it, we're we're we're gonna cover this.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Love that. Yeah, so this season's all about talking about relationships from different angles, and breakups is probably the most feared aspect of a relationship and the one that carries over into other relationships, and just I think it different facets of it aren't talked about enough. So I guess that leads to my first question, which is you talk about um the crisis phase. So that's like the first stage of a breakup for someone who has just been blindsided, uh, any of our listeners, what is actually happening to the brain and body in those first 72 hours?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah, and I think even longer. I I think people are it is unexpected, but you do fall into a crisis. So you can't eat, you can't sleep, your thoughts are racing. You are feeling such a desperation at that moment. And this is where a lot of us will get into not even really considering if that breakup should have happened. We are just in overdrive trying to put our life back together again because everything has been ripped away from us. And many times it's if it's a discard, and we can talk about that a little later on. It it feels like you had no idea this was coming. And now you're face to face with if I didn't see this coming, what else in my life did I miss? And so you are 24-7 trying to figure out what just happened, and whether you like it or not, you're uh incapable of having any logical thoughts at that moment. I shouldn't say incapable, but it's it's tough. It's tough to get through one day. It's tough to get through 10 minutes. I'm gonna even say that.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

You start to doubt yourself and your judgment and who you are and everything.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

You start to doubt your entire history with that person, too. You really start to question every little thing, and we are in panic mode. It's full-blown panic mode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

So that kind of leads to this like obsession phase, too, I think, where people are, you know, like why do we become investigators where we're constantly checking socials, reading old texts, like doing that kind of behavior when we know it's actually gonna make us feel worse.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

I think it's all part of putting that puzzle back together again and also feeling like we may want that person back regardless of what they did. So usually that is the first major thing that we experience is right, we need to put this back together again because we are drowning in this. So I think the uh uh obsession even goes further than checking in on everything that they're doing. It really goes into what do we need to do to get this person back in our life? Because as much as they are the source of pain, they are also the answer. Because if they just said, you know what, I I made a mistake, let's get back together again, it'll be it'll be fine. We would feel all that relief. So we're chasing someone who has thrown us into this pain, but also holds the key to making us feel better in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Yeah. And it's really like the only person that can fix the only one, the pain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yes. And if they are drifting, we want to know where they're going, who they're going with, and how we can possibly stop that runaway train.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Right. I guess your body is like your nervous system is kind of in tune with theirs. So when it's disconnected, you get this dopamine withdrawal and you're completely out of whack, like you're unable to function. Your nervous system's all messed up.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

And so unexpected. Most of the time we have no idea that we're going to feel that level of pain. I think it is completely unexpected for most people. When they hit that, they had no idea. You hear people who break up, you hear about divorce, and unless you've been through that experience, especially with a discard, you have no idea what is in store. So again, you really can't even comprehend how you're feeling and why you're doing some of the things that you're doing. Because you have the logic when people are saying, well, look what they've done to you, and why do you still want them back? I think it makes us feel like there's something wrong with us. Yeah. So we feel like, what is wrong with us? Why do we want this person back when they have hurt us in such a way? Well, because again, when you say the nervous system, we need to feel that calmness again. And they're the only ones that can provide it.

unknown 5:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It's it's interesting because you uh everyone handles a breakup differently. I think also women handle it differently than men and things like that. And it's it's funny how even in a relationship that maybe it wasn't as intense or you weren't as involved in like the ego is involved. So there's like a big identity crisis with your ego. Like I remember going through breakups really long time ago. I was going through I had a concussion at the time. I wasn't like the best partner in general, but he ended up, you know, ending things and I was like really upset. And I was like, I love you, and all this stuff. I wrote him a letter, which he ended up giving back to me, thank God. Because when I read it, I was like, I realized like I didn't really love him and I didn't really, I got over it really fast after that initial like couple days. I was just like, oh, that wasn't really that was more in my ego getting bruised than anything. And I think it was just because I was going through stuff at the time, I didn't have the capacity to end the relationship myself, and I just kind of it became comfortable. So I just like held on to it. But it not being together was the best thing that could have happened because we were not right for each other. But it's just interesting how, like looking back on that, I was like, wow, I was so upset, but then really quickly got over it. And I always can tell how much I really cared about the person or the relationship that I was in, how fast I bounce back. Yeah, that's pretty much right after. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

And it like you you make the point of everyone is different when it comes to that relationship and how we also respond to it. And I think at the core of any breakup is a rejection. So even before we're thinking about was this person even good for us? Because many times we're actually in a relationship where it may not be that great for us, and we're the ones kind of uh abandoning ourselves to be there. But if they make the call for the breakup, our ego really does come to the forefront and say, okay, wait a minute. Like they're gonna reject us. We're the ones trying so hard. We're trying to keep it together. We're uh, you know, forgiving them for all of these things that they're doing. So it is even more of that chase to feel like uh aren't we worthy? Like, haven't we done enough to make this relationship work? So great point. Ego, yeah, the rejection, feeling like you're not worthy, feeling like you're uh easy to walk away from. Those things just it's like it's like a punch in the gut.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, it really is. And for a blind-sided breakup, you mentioned the discard. Um, can you talk more about that? And also why we have this like visceral reaction almost beyond just like the crying and stuff. It almost feels like you lose a limb when someone you actually really love leaves or especially discards you, like in a way that's so out of the blue.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah, and a discard. A lot of people they they they think about a breakup all just being one type of breakup, but one that you see coming, that you've talked about it with your person, you know there's trouble. Um, you've tried therapy possibly, you've given yourself time to try to work out the problems. When that relationship ends, yes, it's very sad and it's a breakup and there's grief. Of course, we cannot get beyond the grief, but we're we're not as traumatized, I would say, where we're not as shocked by it. So we don't react in a way that when it's a discard, a discard is usually related to someone who is dealing with internal struggles, whether someone is having commitment issues, whether someone is on the avoidance side and they feel like it's just getting a little bit too close, someone who's going to self-sabotage, someone who's going through a quarter life crisis, a midlife crisis, if their life is kind of spiraling uh out of control, they are usually the ones to have an impulsive breakup and they are going to turn and uh discard the person without even really giving you any heads up, without letting you know this is coming. And the person recognizing, hey, wait a minute, these problems really weren't us as a couple. They're more things you were dealing with. But that is so much different because there's such a shock attached to it that we are shocked this is happening. We didn't feel like we were part of the problem so much as it was something going on with that person. And a discard, that person usually becomes very cold. They they many times either get into a very quick rebound or they're having an affair. So they've kind of set up this soft place to land because a discard is so closely related to someone who's conflict avoidant, they usually haven't been able to talk to you about it, but they also won't sit in the loss. So they're usually planning a life on the other side that they get into very quickly without any care of how you are gonna make it through that. It's right, anybody that's been through it can relate to this and they they will say the shock lasted for months before it ever set in that this is actually happening.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah, it's like a compounded grief. Like you get the the loss of the person and then just the complete shock with complete shock on a on the in not being able to expect it and prepare for it, even in some way, or like knowing, oh, there's things going on, you know, this might be a possibility.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

So I can see that just being and them not being open to any communication because usually when the discard happens, they've already checked out. So even if you're trying to say, hey, wait a minute, we can talk about this, let's see if we can make it through, they have already completely shut down and they uh can't even hear it. So you have now there's nowhere for that grief to go. There's no there's nowhere for your conversations to go. You're you're so completely alone in that breakup. Oh, just the thought.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, and like you they kind of set them their distractions up already, and you have to just pivot and change your whole life. And you know, you see on social media all these clips of people talking about getting ghosted and and discarded and things, and like obviously, like every time someone cheats or discards you or something, unless you're like the worst person ever, it's usually has to do with that person. It has never has to do with you. Yes, but it doesn't mean that it's almost like the more you care about someone and the more you love them, they could run even further and they can be more scared if there are like an avoidant attachment or something. So it's interesting how like it's not a reflection on you, it's a reflection on them, but it feels so personal, very personal.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, and you can't even turn that corner, like you like you just said, recognizing it's about them more than it's about you. You you can it takes so long to turn that corner because we we look at the world through our own lens and everything does relate to us. And so, of course, when this happens, we cannot see the big picture, we can only see that someone has completely cut us loose. Not only have they cut us loose and left us in this shock, but because they've set up a little bit of a life on the other side, you almost have to stand there frozen and watch them move their life along as if you never existed when you can't even imagine taking a breath without this person being on the other end of it. Yeah. Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Got it's gut-wrenching, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

It is like I can't even I know I can't even describe it without feeling every ounce of what that is like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

And I wanted to talk about also this like concept that it's funny, I was talking to my mom and she was like, I've never heard of this phrase no contact before recently, like it's become definitely like a more common used phrase. Much. What is your what are your thoughts on no contact and reconciliation of relationships? So even in those relationships, when someone is avoidant and like you know, usually contacting them repeatedly, like trying to like win them back, like actually makes it worse. So, what are your thoughts on that? And I know you have like a no contact rule, no contact series, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

But it is so, and and I'm so glad you asked about that because everyone feels like the minute there's a breakup, you have to go no contact, and they feel like that is the only way through a breakup. And and and that's far from the truth. Many breakups need that communication. So when it comes to no contact, there is a time and a place. If you go no contact right after a discard, it's not, and and some people use it not to say um manipulative, but they're trying to get something from it. But if you use it right after a discard, it's not affecting the person who um discarded you like we think it is, because they are almost relieved that they broke up. They've been thinking about it, planning it, plotting it, mentally prepared. So to go no contact gives them the feeling like, okay, I don't have to face that, I don't have to think about it anymore. So there's no real like there's really nothing there that does anything to the person who uh um discarded you but the concept. Yeah, there's no consequences. Now, on the other hand, if someone broke up with you because they are having um commitment issues and they're having trouble, you know, making the full commitment, the no contact is a great tool because now you're letting the person know, okay, if if you want to live a life without me, this is what it's going to feel like. And because that person is in the middle isn't in the middle of a a discard, they feel that loss right away. And once somebody feels it, it's much different than what they imagined it was going to be. But no contact is a great tool for the person who got broken up with if they have the ability to do it. And I want to stress that so much. Most people don't have the ability, they shouldn't be upset with themselves if they don't. There's still a way through a breakup without being able to go that no contact. Yeah. But when you give yourself that time, you almost put yourself in a bubble. You're not being triggered by the person, you're not seeing things about them, you're not getting updates, you're not watching the social media. So you do get a chance to let your nervous system come down a little bit. Not the first few weeks of it, because the first few weeks of it, it's it feels like an addiction to that person. So no contact is excruciating.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah. Yeah, it's awful. I mean, I think if you're the one broken up with, it's even worse. I'm sure it's that. I mean, I've broken up with people who've been broken up with. It's that on both sides, but obviously if you're the one broken up with, it's more painful in a way because you don't make the rules anymore, kind of. So it but it is interesting how I've I I've seen this like a couple times on social media, even like from watching the Oscars the other night, there was um Ethan Hawk made uh said like in a breakup basically the lover wins, like the person who was broken up with wins. Yeah. And I thought that was so interesting because I guess the having like the no contact just puts into perspective like where you stand, you can kind of you benefit from it just as much as that person. And it kind of puts things into perspective that you wouldn't necessarily get if you were contacted, contacting them all the time, like stepping back and being like, Do I really want this? I'm a really person. Yeah, you get clarity, you kind of come to yourself again. And I think like after a month, two months, if you still really care and want that person, then that's a different story. But like a lot of times you just realize, you know what, it's better.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

It's better without yeah, some sometimes you do decide that for yourself. And and I also don't I don't love extended periods of no contact because I do feel like after a breakup, there is an arc. The person who does the breaking up really for at first they're kind of relieved, they feel like they kind of did what they needed to do. Now they're going to go and put together this brand new life where they feel like they may be happier. But once they get into that brand new life, they really that's when they start to reconsider what did they walk away from and were those problems unfixable? So at that point, they may start reaching back to the person that they broke up with. Now it's up to that person to decide what do they do about it? Because now it changes the whole dynamic. And if the person is in a new relationship, if they start to get caught in the middle where they are doubting themselves, so they want to contact their ex, but they're also trying to move forward with someone new, if you give them the no contact, they're recognizing, okay, I can't stay in this confused state forever. Limbo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So it can be a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I would say if you're if you're thinking about your ex enough while you're in another relationship, that's not always the best sign.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

And that's very typical because when that person either gets with their affair partner or they get into that rebound relationship, they are avoiding what was happening with that loss. So once that becomes their everyday life, now all of a sudden they're saying, you know, did I make a mistake here? And now what do I do about it? And some people are totally worth it. So if you want to start talking to that person and like, you know, rebuilding, that's why I do believe in checking in every so often, one way or the other, because you want to see are they coming out of this and what do they want to do about it. And also if you've given yourself a moment to regain your own balance, you can decide if the person is worth it. Because it's at that point where we say, I don't think we had what we thought we had, or we built a great foundation and this person really came upon a time in their life where they kind of couldn't handle what was happening and and and made a poor decision for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Right. That's so true. Yeah, I feel like um when you break up and you're the one who's broken up with, I don't know if it's I like I said, women and men process things differently. I feel like women tend to feel everything like right away and they really grieve, are unable to eat, sleep, and all that. And I know men feel this too. It's just I see it more with women and men differently, and maybe that's just because I'm a girl and I've been through relationships like this, but it's like you the minute you start getting over that person is when they pop back in, and it's like because they're been distracting themselves, they've been doing all of the things to not feel, and then once it hits them, they feel it, and then you're like, Oh, hi, um, I'm good now. Never mind.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yes, that's so true. Because I think people are looking to numb themselves after something like that, and to say we are different. And of course, there are men and women that can fall into either camp, but many times women have a great support system where they can talk to their friends, they can cry about things, they can really express themselves. More emotions. So our emotions are are they can be out there where I feel like sometimes men suppress a lot of their emotions, and so they feel like they just need to pick up and try to keep pushing forward. And so you'll you'll find, and of course, women can feel the same way that they have to get into that next relationship quickly because that's also tied to our identity. Who are we without that? So I think it's how do we choose to numb ourselves when life becomes uh overwhelming? And there are some that do it by getting supportive people around them, pouring themselves into their work or a health and wellness routine. And there are others that say, let me just get somebody else. In here to kind of take the place of the other person. So I don't have to have my head go like below water. So I feel like it's it's all how we choose to numb ourselves in the moment or like you know, distract or just kind of keep everything as even keel as possible instead of allowing yourself to fall off that cliff. Because it is. And it's like you fall, if you're doing it by yourself, you're falling off a cliff. You are falling off. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah. And I feel like you just, if you don't have a support system, you kind of just mask your emotions for so long and then they bubble up to the surface at some point.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

And I think that's why we see a lot of midlife, um, quarter life crisis and people that when they're overwhelmed with life, um, they really can't handle a lot of that. And so instead of dealing with one thing at a time and getting people to kind of uh co-regulate with you, I think those people try to figure out all by themselves. They hit a crisis, and that's when they go for the breakup. They're like, How do I get out of pain? How do I make myself feel better? Well, I guess I'll flip my life upside down and I'll walk away from usually the person that's been the most supportive person in their life. And then they try to do it on their own and realize I just let a great person go for no reason at all.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah. I feel like um relationships are a lot like mirrors, like you hold a mirror up to your partner. And sometimes they blame you for that when it's really just they're seeing their own unhealed traumas or their own imperfections that come up that are triggered by that person. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, even if it's like uncomfortable feelings. It could be things that you just need to work on as a person, and that I think is a lot of the time when there are those discards or avoidant people who push away that partner because they're like, I don't want to go there. Great point.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Great point, because it really does ask of you to kind of like get up to a certain level. And I think when people feel like they're having trouble getting there or staying there, they feel like they're letting their person down in some way. They're not able to sustain. So they almost try to convince themselves that they'd be better off without me. Like I can't be the person they need. Uh, vulnerability is really difficult for me. It's hard to be close to this person, or even trust issues from maybe something you went through as a child or even in a previous relationship. How do you trust this other person? So you feel like if I can't trust them, I might as well exit before they may hurt me again. So there's so much. I think fear plays such a huge role in breakups. When we start to fear, if we can maintain that relationship for whatever the previous things that happened to us are are coming in, and then people would rather exit than feel like they might get hurt.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, absolutely. And with your friends surrounding you and stuff, it's interesting going through a breakup when you you real there are certain things that you don't want to hear and things you do want to hear. And one of the things that I personally hate hearing during breakups is um, you know, like you're gonna find someone better. You're gonna, you know, all the all of that future talk where you're like, can we just not even talk about like the next person yet? Like this is crazy. It just this just happened. And kind of those those overpromising things are people say because they love you, and I get that, but it's just like the not the thing you want to hear.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah, it's almost like people don't know what to say because they want to see you out of pain as quickly as possible because it's hard to sit with someone in pain. So most of the time they will say something like that, or they will like say, or people will say, you know, uh they'll they'll tell you to try to move on, and that to me gets under my skin so badly like we're trying, we're trying.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Or you know, people will or like you need to date. Oh, that's the worst. Like that is opposite of what I need right now.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yes, but these are people who love us so so much, but they don't know what to say. And I think that's where some people also fall into some trouble because if their friend group is saying to them, get on the apps, get out there and start dating, someone else will that will make you feel better, that will make you forget your person, or even if they try to bash your person, you aren't always in that space yet. Like you just loved this person yesterday. So while they are pointing out all the terrible things that this person just did, it's really silently breaking your heart because you're like, I actually still love them and I and I know what they've done. I I have a front row seat to all this, but it hurts you. So I think creating boundaries with people around you is something that we have trouble with because we're usually oversharing at first. We're telling them every bad thing this person ever did to us because we're trying to get the support, we're trying to get through it. And then we're kind of sorry that we shared so much, but we're human and we were looking for support. But then I think it's okay to say, look, I'm doing the best I can. I just need to take one day at a time and I'm gonna get there. I love your support, but some things are helpful and some things are not helpful. So speaking up for ourselves and letting people know that some things are not helpful.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Because again, they love us, they they they love us, they just want to be there. I mean, that's that's a good point too, because you know, when you do tell someone about like what you've gone through in this breakup, obviously your friends are protective, your family's protective, they're gonna be like, well, then you deserve better. Like, screw that person. But I've been through relationships where I've gotten back together with an ex, and it's like the your friends love you and they want you to be happy, so they'll just support you no matter what. And if they trust your judgment, like if you choose to get back together with this person, they know that that's for the right reason and they'll learn to love them again.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

And oh, those are the best kind of friends because a lot of people will, like you said, once you overshare, then all of a sudden you're thinking, okay, what if I want to get back with this person now? How do I get everybody else on board? And that gets to be a hurdle that people don't know how to, you know, they don't know how to get over that. So a lot of times it is something that could hinder the couple from being back together again. I think the great friends, uh, the way they can support the best is to say, look, I I don't love what happened with the two of you. You know how I feel, but I love you and I'm gonna support whatever choice you make. And I will be here to mop you up if it goes sideways again, which many times it could. So you do need those people. And I think, like you said, in order for us to say to those people, look, this is the choice I'm making. My eyes are wide open. I do know that I could get hurt again. I do appreciate your support, but this is something I feel like I have to do. As long as they know you know the risks that you're walking into, I think it's easier for you to come in and support.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yeah, exactly. And it's like how many depends on how many chances the person got, like how many strikes against them. Like, I think there's kind of like a gray area there. And how many is too many?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I guess only the only person who can say that is the person in the position.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Exactly. Exactly. Um, you have a topic that you talk about is how to give up hope. Can you talk more about that and how that helps you in um just growing and not necessarily even moving on, just like letting go in a way, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, just like trying trying to live, really, because yeah, that's something people struggle with so much because there is hope and there is love still present for such a long period of time. People feel like if I could just give up hope, I could get to healing, I could get to the end, I could feel peace again, and I could feel happiness. The problem is hope is so out of our control. It's just gonna live there whether you like it or not. You really can't control it. So I have always found that the best thing to do is set yourself up on two paths at the very same time. Know that you still love this person, know that you have hope that you may get back together again, but at the very same time, throw yourself into rebuilding your life independently. So that kind of gives you a feeling of ease. You're kind of saying, okay, I'm not gonna fight this emotion and spend all my time trying to cut cords and you know, carry crystals around and do all these things. Right. I'm gonna say, yes, I feel this way. I'm gonna honor that. But since I'm in this position, I am going to just go a hundred miles an hour in the direction of me. Do the full, complete audit of your life, go into your friend group, your job satisfaction, your health and wellness, your finances, your living uh situation. Just go fully into that. And then as time goes on, if you don't start putting it back together again, you're in a very strong position because you've created a new identity, which is what we need to do. Right. But also we can make a really great logical decision about that person. And if they don't come back around over a period of time or we recognize that they're not for us, hope naturally will release its grip. And you don't have to fight it. You just wake up one day and and and you feel like, you know what? Either you're really um disappointed that that person didn't believe that the relationship had the chance that you thought it did, or you decide for yourself, they can't go along with me. They're not going where I'm going. And I love them and I and I, you know, wish them well, but I realize that they they can't be part of this next chapter.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Yeah, I think I've any breakup I've gone through where I've either gotten back together with the person or not, I've always found them to be the best thing that's happened, even if it's like the worst thing in the world at the time. You always grow so much from it, and then you're in a position where you're either stronger in that relationship because you've left the old relationship that was causing you both unhappiness in some way and have grown and have formed a better relationship moving forward, or you're just a different person and you're like, you know what? I didn't like who I was when I was in that relationship, and I'm gonna move forward as an as this version of myself. But either way, even if you try it and it again and it doesn't work, you still are in this position where you are gonna be fine either way. So that's really the best thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Instead of like making your whole world about this other person, you always have to, you know, keep your feet planted and yes, that's that's yeah, that's such a great point, especially because if you do put it back together after a little bit of time, you would come back as a much better couple than you were before because you figured so many things out while you were in that breakup. And then if you don't come back together, you still have also figured things out and decided for yourself. That's why I think it's so important that people follow their own path. If they feel like they want to get in there again and things could be better, that's the way they have to go. Because if it doesn't work out, now they have seen it again and they feel like, okay, now I can close that door because I'm not wondering what if. Because to me, to wonder what if is that's gonna steal years of your life. So some people try to make those big decisions which are against what their heart really wants, or maybe because they're afraid to get hurt again, but then they always wonder. And there are other people that say, okay, we have the opportunity, let's see how this goes. And even if it doesn't work, they're more convinced that we love each other, but we just couldn't get there.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Right. And then you know, like I feel like it's always really bad, like you said earlier, to make decisions or getting broken up with when it's not when it's a unilateral decision and not one made together because it's made out of emotions rather than logical thinking and just being, you know, you tried and you failed and you tried and it just wasn't working. And that's when you really know if a relationship isn't working. Obviously, like there's exceptions to every rule if the person's abusive or something like that, it's a little different, but you you worked on it, and if it works, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And it's it's interesting how um it's like that's where you kind of see these relationships either thrive or fail in some ways, and like the the ones that get back together and they grow and then they realize you know what, we did everything, it's still not working. It's like there's no lack of love there, but it we're just not meant for each other.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Yeah, and I think there's more of a sense of closure, and I know people debate whether or not there is anything um such as closure, but I I do believe that. I I believe that it, you know, you kind of close the loop. It came full circle and you had a chance to close that loop. And sometimes you have to get closure, even if you don't have that second chance with the person, sometimes you still get that closure by either recognizing that you weren't meant for one another, or also recognizing that the person may have let some things uh from their own life come into this relationship and take a toll on the relationship, and then haven't been able to have that breakthrough where they recognize it and they can kind of overcome. So sometimes you do have a breakup where the person doesn't grow to the level that you thought they could. Um, that's a really tough one. But that is life too. Like some people can feel like there's a chance and they can they can fix those things, and other people don't choose that and they choose rather to start fresh with someone new rather than do the work of putting something back together again that could take it, it does take work. It takes work, it takes effort. So not everybody is cut out to come back and repair and push forward with the you know, forgiveness that has to go along with that and and all the rest. Some people will just say, Yeah, well, I'm gonna write I'd rather go with a a clean slate regardless of the possibilities here.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

That's the type of right, which is which is interesting because a lot of times, you know, I mean, obviously you're different with different people and things like that, but if you're if you have this work to do on yourself that you, you know, outside influences and you move on to another relationship, it's usually gonna repeat itself and those behaviors or in some way. Um but that that is really interesting. Obviously, certain people in a relationship are just don't communicate well and things like that. Like I've been in relationships where we just do it was like we were speaking two different languages. Just like we could not communicate no matter what. It's like I would say something and they that person would be like, I don't get what you're saying, and I'm like, How do you not understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I know it's so it's also hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

It really is. Yeah, and I think that's when like things like maybe attachment styles don't line up or don't complement each other. Like you don't have you shouldn't really have the same attachment style necessarily, but you know, love languages line up, all of that, and it's like sometimes you just aren't gonna work, and you might have a chemistry with them, but there has to be other alignment there, like you have to align on like micro and macro things in your life in order for that relationship to be even sustainable for a long-term partner, even if it's not working like that, then there's sort of like that period when you are in no contact or you break up or you're like, Well, do we even align on these things that would matter to me in life? So is it even worth trying? And then in that case, like maybe not, but right.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

And and one of the biggest, yeah, one of the biggest ways to align is even with the feeling of if we have troubles, what how are we gonna handle it? Are we going to yeah, you know, run away or are we going to lean in to the times that are, and I think that's a big lesson that people learn, especially when they exit a relationship because of their own struggles. They learn after the fact, well, sometimes, that the way around that is when those feelings do come up, lean into your person and say, Look, I feel like I'm only at 10% right now. There's a lot going on in my life. I feel like I'm not showing up for you the way I should be. Give that person a chance to say, look, if you're at 10% right now, I'll be 90%. And then there are times that I'm going to be 10% and you may have to be 90. Yeah. So I think it does come down to that communicating to the person what you're going through, what you're feeling, what your struggles are, and let them meet you there. Because the people that make it are not the ones that lack problems or have the least amount of problems. It's the two people that say, I'm not quitting. Like, I love you, you love me. We align in so many ways. If we come upon troubles, guess what? It's it's me and you. You can't get rid of me. And so I think that that is such a huge part, and that's what you need in a person.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Yeah. I get that completely. It's like if you're gonna marry someone and be in this long-term partnership, like you're gonna face so many trials and tribulations and losses and all of this hardship that you have to be able to lean on your partner and know that like you're not gonna always be 100%, you're not always gonna be the best version of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

And that ebbs and flows, and it's like totally normal. You just need to know that that person is secure in that they're not leaving and like you feel safe regardless of how turbulent things are.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah. And I think that's the that's a huge deal for people. And that is one of the things that the people have to try to repair if they have uh a breakup, is when they start to talk to each other again, they have to talk about look, that can never happen again, because you make a great point. Life is full of those ups and downs. And you know, if you can make it through some of those more difficult times, you're you're so much of a closer couple, too. You just those roots grow deeper and deeper and deeper every time you go in um together and come out the other side. So I think when someone reaches that trust, they have to repair and and look at things in a completely different light because now the rebuild is gonna have to have that's gonna be part of it now. All the damage that's done in a breakup has to be part of that rebuild.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah, because the trust has been broken and you have to make sure that person knows that this won't necessarily happen again. And if it does, it has to be a discussion leading up to it.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah, and and I think a breakup puts people in in a very painful um position. So I feel like a lot of change can happen when people are in pain. Change doesn't usually happen like well, it happens all the time in life because that's part of life. But I think when people really get into that painful place of a breakup, which puts some at rock bottom, they are in a in a position to say, I can't keep I can't keep living like this. I I can't keep doing this, I don't want to keep doing this, I want to be a different person. And I think they have a great opportunity to change if that is what is in store for them. Now, when they go right into that rebound relationship or the affair partner, change doesn't have to happen so quickly because they are kind of like, you know, maintaining relationships. And so there's not too much, I don't feel like there's too much change happening um until they start through that realization, like I can't just unplug one person and plug another person in, and that solves all my problems. They have to realize that changing your environment or changing people does not solve your problems, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Exactly. Yeah, especially if it's like a blindsiding exit, and you're you know, you've you know, I I've been in relationships where I've left after, you know, trying and it was a discussion and you know things just weren't working, but getting blindsided is something I wouldn't wish were said in the world. Terrible.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

You know, and and I think people think you you should be over it in like three months' time. I don't think anybody understands how long of a process it is to recover from that. Uh months and and years sometimes, and that's the honest truth. So because of the fact that you stay in shock for so long, your your healing, it doesn't even begin for such a long period of time. You're trying to survive, but you're not really thriving for such a long time.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Yeah, it's kind of like losing someone that you love unexpectedly, in a way. It's almost like the person dies.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, it people compare it to death at times, not to ever like minimize death, but it's a little bit the grief kind of parallel like parallels because you are losing someone that you had with in your life every single day, but now it's um compounded because this person is still walking the earth and they're just choosing not to be with you. And they can they can continue to hurt you every single day with the things that that they're doing. So the death of losing that relationship, but then also there's no closure there, there's no finality to it, and it's a continuous pain. It's like death by a thousand cuts sometimes when that person is still here, but not choosing to be in your life. Right. Dreadful.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yeah, I think even if you End up moving on and like dating, starting to date again, it still will be in the back of your head that that happened. Unless you like obviously fall madly in love with someone and they're just like completely head over heels and so happy that it doesn't matter, but right it's still in your it's like in your body. I I read somewhere that your brain is rewired at that moment, like you have the shock to your system like leaves almost like a permanent imprint.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

I would imagine that. I because a lot of people will even describe almost like a um PTSD that is attached to something like that. So again, not not to relate that to some other um PTSD, but absolutely things that are triggering to you, you're gonna have milestones that pass that make you feel some sort of a way. There are going to be experiences that you have and you know the like the like the memories that start to come up. So it is a constant reminder, places you go, people you see, uh, songs, lyrics, TV shows, like you name it, everything is like everything reminds us of this person and this experience. This experience, especially if um, you know, they were maybe with somebody else at the time. All of those things are really going to be things that you carry along. They, they, they really do damage you in a way that it's hard to kind of shed. So I often say to people, you know, we can only heal so much on our own. When we get into that next relationship, we're gonna see all that damage rise up and be present. And then we have to deal with, okay, now I see I I don't trust people like uh I used to, or I'm more guarded than I used to be. Uh maybe I'm more cynical or critical because you're really trying to push people away because you're so afraid to get hurt again, that the damage just shows up for an extended period of time. And I don't know if we expect any of that. We don't expect any of that.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yeah, and then the healing isn't linear. It's like one day you feel completely fine, and then the next day you're crying and kind of all over the place.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Oh, sometimes you're everything is so heavy that you don't even remember what it is to feel like you anymore. And then you'll have this fleeting moment where everything will lift and you feel light for a split second, and you you feel like, oh my goodness, this feels so good. And then it's gone again for a period of time. So once you start piecing together more and more moments of that, because you're gonna think about this person 24-7. And I think people don't realize that. They almost will ask me, Am I obsessed? I'm like, well, you are gonna think about this every single day for a long period of time. It's not abnormal to feel that way. Then when you start piecing together, hey, I didn't think about that for half hour or an hour or all afternoon, then you recognize, okay, I think I'm getting to the other side of this.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

And and back to yourself. Yeah, that kind of brings me to, I think when where people sometimes get it wrong is they feel like they're going to wake up one day and feel feel like it never happened and feel like themselves again. But I think it's better to look at it like that's that's not the way it is going to happen. It is you absorbing a loss. So the more you can step into that new life that you have right in front of you, and you recognize that it's getting softer and it's getting more in the distance and it is calming down a bit, that is what it starts to look like. So, not looking like, am I gonna magically wake up and this nightmare is gonna be over? And wouldn't that be the best? But look at it more like am I finding my new life? Am I, you know, walking away from my old life and stepping into my new life and no longer in this limbo? Am I am I am I like stepping into my new self? And and how does that feel? And even recognizing that you're gonna have times that you think about this person and you miss them and you wish you could tell them something and you wish they were there to experience something, or it's their birthday or a holiday or a memory, that's perfectly okay to feel that they were part of your life, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Exactly. So, what is your what is your take on this concept that I've seen people talk about a lot, which I have my own opinion on, is the concept of if they if they wanted to, they would. Oh my goodness. And I personally don't agree with that concept. I think it yeah, I I think like it's it's can become like a toxic phrase, I think, for you know, it is women to promote this.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Yeah, it is and I and I understand what people are saying. Like if if someone goes uh you know above and beyond, they send you flowers or they you know they they they give you grand gestures, but I look at it like there are so many people out there uh uh out there that want to that don't. I talk to people every single day that have had a breakup where they feel like they've done a lot of damage with that person. So they're on the side of I love them, I miss them, but I'm not sure if I can be better than I was. I don't know if I'm gonna hurt them again. So they stay away from going back to that person because they aren't sure of themselves. And so I talk to people every day who want to, but don't because fear is a very powerful emotion. And I I would argue that is more powerful than love sometimes. So if someone is afraid of something for whatever the reason, they aren't going to go forward in that. So I and that is that just minimizes the experience when people say these little short bursts, um, or even even don't let someone tell you twice that they don't want you. And those are such those are concepts that make the world it seem so black and white, and there's so much of a gray area that we have to make space that these are humans we're dealing with. So I am so against if they wanted to, they would, because it makes us feel like what is it? We aren't worth it, and that is not the case. That is not the case, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

That just makes half the people feel worse, and that's also like an interesting concept on like how people promote, like they always come back, which some people have experiences where they always do come back, but others have like I have friends who who tell me like their exes have never come back, and I don't think that's like a testament to them being like a bad person, a bad partner, or someone who is like not worthy of that yearning.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

That is that's a great point because someone, some people, oh you know, their ex will always come back. That is not true because that is according to who that person is. Like we just gave like like that example. When I'm talking to people who feel like they have not figured themselves out, they don't know why some of their behavior, where it comes from, they just are not sure that they have figured it out enough to go back to a person that they love and miss greatly. So there are so many examples of people that are in that position that not every ex uh does come back because once there's a breakup, there really is a mess that you have to try to clean up. They know that people are mad at them. They know that sometimes family and friends, they they aren't sure that they're gonna hurt the person again. Um, they don't know how to do it. So there are so many people, and let me just throw a little monkey wrench in here, too. I deal with a lot of people that get into that rebound relationship, and now all of a sudden they were love bombing, they're knee deep in this rebound, three months in, they've made all kinds of promises and everything else. And now they're saying to me, What do I do now? Now, now if I blow up this life, I'm gonna look like a jerk, I'm gonna hurt somebody else. What if my ex doesn't take me back? Then I'm nowhere. So do I just make the best of this new relationship? Or do I get the bravery, because it takes a lot of courage, to go back and try to repair? So I can give thousands of examples where exes don't come back, or if they wanted to, they would not.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Yeah, you know, so I mean, they definitely it does take a lot of courage, especially if that person that they broke up with is like, never talk to me again. I hate you, you're the worst, like we're done, and you know, whatever, whatever the terms were that they broke up on. But I think, yeah, the courage it takes so much courage. It does because you know, you also have to face you're facing an army of people that they are protective of them as well. And that is wild to me, like getting into the next relationship. I mean, dating, I get like after a few months when you start dating and you know, you try things out, see if see if you feel differently or like if you really had the same the feelings are still there for your ex or something, but getting into a rebound relationship, which I've never personally done that is just irresponsible, I think. It just complicates so much. And like then you're just what settling for someone that you don't really want to be with, but you're just afraid to be alone, so you choose that person over taking the chance with your ex. So what what's the worst that can happen? Maybe you just take some time by yourself or try to get that other person back if you really messed it up and you want them back too.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

And that kind of brings us back to how hard it is to be by yourself. If you're really thinking about it, so some people cannot go there, they really feel as though there's no way I can handle this. I have to get into this next relationship. I think, like, you know, in society, people feel like that's the cornerstone of a life is you have a relationship and then everything else kind of grows from there. When in uh actuality, uh being by yourself for a little bit of time and developing those other areas of life puts you in such a better position to be in that next relationship. So it does come down to how do people feel about themselves about taking that time, taking a step back, pumping the brakes, figuring things out and trying to process fully. So when we talk about what does healing look like, it doesn't look like the person got right into another relationship, they're official on the socials, they're traveling, they're making big plans. That's not what healing looks like. It looks like being in the trenches and crying your eyes out and losing your whole identity and trying to build yourself back and struggling through your days. That's that's what it looks like. That's what it looks like. It's messy, it's not neat, it's not neat. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

I feel like when people get immediately into another relationship because they don't want to be alone, they overlook everything they really want in a partner to, even if you know, even if that relationship they were in wasn't for them, say that that was a rebound, they ended that rebound and moved on to someone else. It's like they're con like serial monogamous or something. Like they just don't want to be without and they hold on to, you know, they're good enough. Uh, you know, yeah, they have a couple, they check a couple boxes. I'm just gonna do it because like I don't want it. The thought of being alone is miserable, so I'll just bounce right into the next thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

The thought of being alone is really scary for people, but also once they get into that rebound relationship and the shine wears off, which is very quickly, usually within three months, they figure out whether or not they want to be there. But now they have to try to maintain it. So they're wearing a mask every day because now they started to feel the loss of that relationship. Because even if that relationship before previously wasn't that great, it's still a loss that has to be mourned. So once they start feeling the effects of that loss, they are going to carry that with them. And now they're trying to manage those emotions while they're trying to build a relationship with someone. So they have to show up uh inauthentically every single day. That's exhausting. It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Yeah. I think also when it comes to reconciliation between um exes, I think it's important if that person was the one who broke up with you. If they just, you know, I mean, uh if they don't do the work to like heal or even recognize what's wrong or where they went wrong and just immediately bounce into another relationship and then leave that one and say, like, hey, I want you back, but like they repeat whatever cycle they were doing before to even break up with you to begin with, that's when that relationship won't even be successful unless they can actually recognize, you know, I got into even if they got into another relationship, at least recognizing their behavior is such a big thing. It's the first step.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

And even if they don't, even if they haven't figured it out, because usually one person um kind of has a better view of what may have actually happened, at least if they come back and say something like, I don't know what happened, like I don't know what happened to me. I kind of like, you know, collapsed at that moment and I just don't know what happened. At least they're opening the door to help me figure it out because I want to figure it out. And I am such a huge um proponent for rebuilding with someone that you think is worth it. I really am. I feel like if this person is worth it and they recognize what happened and they're willing to work on what it was, then if you love this person, there's no reason why you shouldn't try that because everyone is gonna come with some baggage, everyone is going to come with their issues, and if someone is worth it, go for it. It's so important to follow your own path in your own heart, regardless of what people around you are saying.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Yeah, I think go at your own pace, follow your own path, don't forget other people's opinions necessarily, but also I feel like we underestimate how difficult dating is and and how like everyone thinks that they're I think that it's social media and dating apps and just the way life moves so quickly these days that you just think you have the most options in the world and you don't realize how hard it is to find like that specific person who matches your energy, like wants the same things you want, has the same morals, values, social aspects, like all of those things that make up someone that compliments you so well, that is so hard to find. And it is not just just because people are attractive and like you think, oh, I can be with this person, I can try this person, like I can get so many girls, whatever, um, or boys. It's it's just like it's just not the case. I feel like we you just you just think we are there's so many options. Some people are paralyzed by choice too, and they just can't commit because yes, there might be someone better over there.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Yeah, and then there's there's there's quantity, but there's not necessarily quality. And I think people recognize when they had a really good um connection with a person, and especially after some months uh out of uh out of the breakup, you really are clear about was that person a good match for me, even if we had some troubles. We're really good at over time looking in and saying, you know, that really wasn't, or looking in and saying, I just feel like that's my person. We have this special connection and we really do align in so many different ways. We are good at knowing that. So we should trust ourselves, not necessarily the first month after the breakup because we're all over the place. But after a bit of time, we can absolutely trust ourselves to know how we feel about that person.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like, especially if it's a relationship where you've talked about the things that you want, because I've been in relationships where we didn't really talk about the future and didn't talk about, you know, like what our values really were. So you might like get along with them so well and have like the best time together, but you're not really sure if you align on those micro and macro things. And then so doing that kind of early on, even if you are starting to date again, is so important because it's shocking how hard it is to find.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

Yeah, it really is. And I think people don't realize that until they start dating, and then they kind of throw their hands up in disgust, like, okay, this wasn't at all what I thought it was going to be. So I think as humans, there are some people who think the grass is greener and try to get out there and figure that out. And others really do recognize uh true connection is difficult and rare, and when you find it, it's so special and it's worth nurturing, and it's worth trying to get over the humps and the hard parts of life. When you have that person going along with you, it is it just it makes life so much easier to have the really special person by your side. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Can I ask what actually got you into this field?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Yeah, well, it was actually my own divorce after like 31 years of marriage, and it was completely uh uh unexpected. He got into almost a midlife crisis sort of a thing, and we had such a strong relationship before that. We had been through so many things in life, and then he went through that, and I had nowhere to turn. I therapists didn't really uh understand what it was I was going through. Like I remember one said to me, Why do you want someone who doesn't want you? And I thought to myself, Oh my goodness, like that is such a terrible thing to say to someone. And I really didn't understand why I still, but I realized I was like discarded. I realized he was on the avoidant side, and no one had ever put a word to that before. So then I started to talk about how difficult. Oh, I went on TikTok and I started to talk about how difficult um divorce was. And all of a sudden, people, it just resonated with people. They just needed someone to say, yes, this is the hardest thing we've ever gone through. And then I just started to coach people through it. And then after speaking to people all over the world, I just started to recognize so many patterns and so many timelines, and I just became a person that collected data, and then I recognized so many different relationships fall into similar categories, and because we're all human, we share the same human experiences, and um then now that's that's all I do. That's that's all I do. That's amazing. Oh, you found your calling, that's for sure. Oh, I love every minute of it. I just love that sometimes people just need someone who says, I get it. Like I so get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

It's so nice to be seen. I mean, that's even why I started this podcast. I was dealing with like a huge amount of anxiety after I got I had a concussion and it was like kind of like the floodgates opened. I was just not feeling myself. I cried all the time, like I was just not in a good head space. And I was like, there's no support groups for people who have who are probably going through what I'm going through. And just I never really had anxiety in that way that I had at that period. I mean, I've had I've always been like a more anxious person, I guess, in some ways, but I didn't recognize it or I learned to cope with it. And at that point, my coping skills had gone out the window. So I had just had to relearn how to deal with things. And I was like, I'm gonna start a podcast on mental health. So that's how I got here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

That is so great because people do need that. They they need some, they they need a platform, they need a place where someone understands them because I think just having a person to sit with you through a really difficult time and get it and know what it is you're going through, that is priceless. And and if you yeah, I feel like the people that are are the best at shepherding others through are the ones that have gone through something very similar. So I feel like you're an expert. Yes, you're an expert. Yeah, you didn't want to be, you didn't choose to be, but then then here you are. So I love when people kind of turn things around and say, you know, I'm gonna help myself, yes, but I'm also going to try to help the next person too, because there's so much healing to happen like that. My my community is just so fantastic. The comment section, people are so honest about how long they're hurting, how much they're hurting. It helps others that are are questioning, hey, it's been a year, it's been two years, why am I still in pain? And finally they read a comment like that and they feel so much better that okay, I'm not alone in this.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

Yeah, absolutely. There's there's always people who are suffering for years and years, or like pining over the one that got away, or wishing that they had done something differently, or you know, when they had the chance. Like I even saw the other day Al Pacino said that he wishes he married Diane Keaton, and he she has since passed and he still regrets not marrying.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

I I know I I I read all about that when she first passed. I was reading all about the the love affair and everything else. And and you know, people think they have time and then they don't. Yeah, and there's always a reason to not move on something, but when when you decide to say yes to certain things and follow like again, it comes down to following your path, following your heart. And I feel like that's that's the best thing you can do for yourself, whether it works or not. Just like coming back to uh Ethan Hawke saying, the one who loves wins.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

Yeah, it's like you're you're putting yourself out there, you're the vulnerable one, so you're more likely to find love or or win in any capacity, whatever it is, because you're letting good things happen. And the person who's like driving only from fear, like you said, fear is like the most intense emotion overriding everything, and that really can stunt people in any sort of growth.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:55

It does, and that the brave people are able to love. Fully and completely, because you have to be fearless. Because if you're afraid at all, because after a breakup, you're going to be afraid to get into that next relationship and then you're going to hold back. So nobody really wins when we're holding back. You do win when you go fearlessly into that love. And if you should have your heart broken, you still gave love that you needed to give, and you are still the winner because you gave a gift that is priceless to somebody. It's priceless.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

Yeah. I mean, and you put yourself out there, like you said, you have clients who regret not or are unable or afraid to, you know, say, you know, I want you back, and all of that. And then that's something they're gonna live with and regret. If they don't make that move, that other person can move on and then they lose that opportunity forever. And that that's something they have to live with, which is even worse than the pain the short-term pain of getting rejected in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

You are so right. That pain can be lifelong. That weight gets really heavy to carry. So I think when people are operating in a place of fear, they do carry that weight, the remorse, the regret, the guilt, whatever it is, they're just carrying it rather than saying, I'm gonna stand up, I'm gonna be brave, I'm just gonna go for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

Because you're putting the ball in their court, and then you know, if you throw back in their court, it kind of is like this game of ping pong. But at least like you put it yourself out there, and then if they reject you, then that's their thing. Go be in them.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Yeah, that's why if you live your life and and and you go about doing whatever you want to do when it comes to trying to put it back together again, or going down that road, putting yourself at risk to do that, even if it doesn't work, you feel like I did everything I could to put that back together again. If that person doesn't choose to be in this relationship, so be it. But I don't have to carry the guilt, the regret, the remorse, or anything of the kind. You get to walk away and say, I did the best I could do, and that's all that anybody could ever ask.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Yeah, exactly. So I so for the people listening, what is a piece of advice that you can give someone going through a breakup, a blind-sided breakup, you know, an ex who wants someone back, like anything, any of those, any of the listeners who are going through something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Yeah, I think the best piece of advice is to honor all of your feelings. Do not judge yourself for feeling any of them, whether you love them, whether you want them back, whether you have hope. Do not judge any of it. Allow all of those feelings. It's a huge loss. Never minimize it. Know that it's gonna take a while to get through it. Be patient with yourself, but at the very same time, start the rebuild. Start paying attention to the people you want around you, how you want to push yourself forward, change your daily routine, set a few goals for yourself, look at every aspect of your life and improve it, even if you're sad. Do it sad, do it scared, do it afraid, do it uh at your lowest point. Just keep pushing yourself forward and let the rest play itself out. Have the ability to let your hands off the wheel and say, I'm gonna let everything work itself out while I take control of what I can take control of.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

Yes, just be so gentle with your heart. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

It was so great. I could have gone for five hours with you, Stephanie.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

Me too. It's so fun to talk about this stuff. You'll definitely have to come back on in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

Absolutely. I have so much to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Yeah, we can even do an in-person one at some point too.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:33

I would love it. I would love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

Yes. Um, and then I'm gonna tell my listeners obviously, you can find your book and coaching at healthdarlene.com and I'll link your socials and everything for everyone as well. Thank you so much. Yes, I'm here for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

I will walk all the way through it with them.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

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