Lou Ann Hamlin

In this episode, Greg Pickering chats with Lou Ann Hamlin of Louka Tactical Training. 

LouKa Tactical Training & Organizational Development is a National, Performance Improvement, Public Safety Consulting, and Training Group. Our group is diverse with advanced educational and working backgrounds, which allow us to legitimately and successfully expand our efforts into professional development at every level of an organization.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Zeroed In, the podcast brought to you by ILFE, the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors. I'm your host, Greg Pickering, and whether you're a seasoned instructor, a law enforcement professional, or someone passionate about firearms training excellence, you're in the right place. Each episode, we bring you expert insights, real-world experiences, and actionable strategies that you can take straight to the range. Because when it comes to firearms instruction, precision matters, not just in marksmanship, but in every aspect of how we teach, train, and prepare professionals for the field. So lock in, stay focused, and let's get zeroed in.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Hey ILFE family, welcome back to the third installment of the ILFE Zeroed In Podcast. I'm super excited today to uh be joined by Lou Ann Hamlin, uh an amazing person in the law enforcement firearms world, uh, 22-year veteran of the Michigan area as a police officer with multiple assignments from patrol, bike patrol, um many different opportunities. I can't see myself, Paul. Did I go away? There I am. Uh someone who has uh taught at many different conferences from ILEDA, ILFE, NTOA, the uh women in policing. Uh just an amazing um resume, Luann. And you know, again, happy that you're uh a board member of ILFE, sitting as the third vice president, advisory board member for ILEDA, um, and just you know, just an all-around awesome person. So thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

All right. Well, hey, we'll jump right in. You know, again, we've got another short session that we try to spend some time talking about uh law enforcement firearms instruction, you know, just some information for our members. So, you know, one of the things that I didn't mention, co-owner and operator of Luca Tactical, um, you know, longstanding um company out there teaching cops, really setting a focus on female um firearms instructors and firearms operators. So, you know, give us a little rundown of of Luca Tactical and what that brings to the table.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Well, um, we've we've been operational now for 27 years, and we started Luca Tactical back in uh 99. Um, my initial mentors in the business world were John Benner from TDI out of West Union, Ohio. He strongly encouraged us to go out on our own. He said, Luann, you're good enough. And that was in 1998. At the time, I was teaching firearms at the Basic Police Academy and was an adjunct uh instructor for HK's International Training Division under John Meyer. We were teaching basic and advanced mountain bike uh classes locally. Of course, Kathy Vonk was teaching at the Ipimba's uh International Conference. I eventually started teaching there as well. But we decided in 1999 that we needed uh to officially create Luca Tactical and to give us a more professional look and feel. We got the website, we did all things, and we started teaching uh at it at a national level. Uh, we taught our first uh developmental marksmanship class in uh 1999, and it kind of took off from there.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

You you talk about inner, you know, about teaching nationally, and I know you've taught internationally, but let's chat real quick about building warrior women, you know, a program that is nationally recognized, um, really designed around the female uh shooter and the female firearms instructor. You know, what what prompted that specific focus and uh you know where where does that go? What are the lessons learned from developing that program?

SPEAKER_04 4:02

The first one we delivered was in 2011 for the city of Dayton, and they came to us, and that's what typically happens. People come with us with a need or a want, and uh they wanted something specific for the female, not just advanced officer survival type classes, but they wanted some leadership, some instructor development stuff in there, some mentoring. And so uh we did the first one in 2011. We've been doing that now for 15 years nationally. I I can't tell you how many, I've lost track of how many we've done. Uh, we'll be doing another one in Dayton. And each one's just a little bit, a little bit different. Um, so it allows me to put my master's degree uh to use and uh custom build every single one. So while we go back to Detroit every year or every other year, each time we make this delivery, it's just a little bit different because we get a lot of repeat folks um to attend uh the Building Warrior Women. And by doing a different one, by doing a custom piece every year, it keeps the things fresh, it keeps our instructors on their toes. Uh, there's no opportunity for us to get lazy in the design or in the delivery. Um, I will typically bring a handful of instructors who specialize in different types of things. I've got a grounder and pounder, I've got somebody that's got a really good stand-up game for my combatives. If I need somebody to come in and bring more of a SWAT flare, of course, we've got instructors that are current and former SWAT operators and uh represent leadership and that's uh specialty unit also. So we like to bring a diverse crowd of female, uh high-performing instructors so we can role model for them. They all of my instructors are professional. Most of them are uh, like I said, have leadership, have have leadership positions in their agencies. And so I think we really do a good job with role modeling in all those specific areas. And so it's it's uh we we begin every class with leadership. Um depending on what the agency wants, we may uh do some officer-down self-help buddy care type training with scenarios, uh, some combatives. Oftentimes they'll want some some pistol work in there, sometimes they'll want some rifle work. And so, like I said, every every single uh B dub that we do is just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

So, you know, you you've trained thousands of officers in in multiple weapons platforms, and and uh, you know, I've I've personally been through some of your classes, they're they're awesome classes. What's the in your in your mind distinction between teaching and teaching your program, the building the warrior woman, uh, building warrior women, and and teaching a line full of you know type A personality, male firearms instructors out there, you know, they're all out there for the same reason. So what's the distinction there?

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Well, I'll tell you, um, the very first class that I did for male firearms instructors was in 1994. Wait, 1994, 2004. And it was in Minnesota, and I was boy, it understanding and teaching uh female shooters was and still is the title of the class. And I'll tell you, I delivered that and I wasn't quite sure if it was a success, the very first one. Um I keep in mind that I was a little bit younger back then, um, maybe had a different way about myself. Um in it, and I'm not quite sure it was received as well as I it probably is now. Uh probably because I'm I'm I'm older now. You know, I'm I'm gonna be 60 years old in March, and um I have a different way about myself. Um so now it's probably one of the most rewarding classes that I have to deliver. Um you know, when you show up with a with a group of of maybe type A, uh maybe not so much with the younger firearms instructors, but um you you really have to you you gotta earn it. They're they're not gonna give it give it to you. I was told that once when I was teaching in Florida, you know, they're there it's a really hard case, Luann. These guys are gonna be rough. I'm like, yeah, whatever. I don't care. Because anymore, um I have a lot of information. I've got a ton of experience. I have trained more women behind a pistol than anybody else in the United States. And if there's somebody out there that's trained more than close to 7,200 now, then let's have a conversation because we probably have a lot to talk about. Um, it doesn't mean that I know everything, it just means that I I have a lot of things over the last going on 32 years now doing this to offer. And so, you know, one of the first things I do is I I ask everybody to evaluate everything. Don't take my word for any of it. Um, I'm just gonna give you my experiences, and I and it's imperative that they bring theirs because everybody brings that female shooter, that that individual, that performer that they've just never been able to reach. And it took me about 20 years before I met her, also, because my philosophy is if there's a female shooter in there, I'm gonna find her. If there's a performer in there, I'm gonna find her. Um, and if there isn't, if I'm brought into an agency to try to solve a problem, which has happened numerous times over the years, oftentimes the performer or the shooter really only owns half of the deficiency. The other half belongs to the organization. And that is the last thing they want to hear about themselves, is that they own some of it. And so sometimes it's a major systems flaw. They have to teach a particular technique, they have to shoot a particular weapon system, they only have X amount of time, here's the progression, they can't control it. So sometimes, like an academy setting, a state academy setting, for example, they can't, their hands are tied in terms of what they're able to do with any given shooter or any given piece of equipment. So, you know, you you you're coming in as instructors as a peer group. When you're doing say a building where women, or you're really teaching to the end uner user, I always want to know if there's an instructor in the class because I'm gonna utilize that talent, I'm gonna leverage that talent. Um, a lot of times, if it's just a basic developmental marksmanship class, um, sometimes I'll find struggling shooters uh in that class. And so they're really two different levels and levels of understanding when you do an end user class compared to an instructor class. And it's just a mutual respect at each level that's super, super important. Um, but when I have male instructors um in the class, say they're all male, which is atypical now. Usually I'll have at least one female instructor in the understanding of teaching female shooters class. Um, you know, these guys bring a lot. And and I would be an idiot if I didn't uh learn from them as well. And so I really, the type of environment that I create is something that's it's just collaboration. Okay, this is how I would solve this thing. Does anybody else have anything that's a little bit different or or let's go with better? And that's that is a skill that I learned when I was teaching the master programs for ILFE. I always did exercises that would induce a problem, whether it was a real one or not, for somebody in the class to solve because that's what we do as instructors. We want to solve problems. And if they can solve a problem for the instructor, oh man, that's great. Or if you've got a better way, teach that. And a couple of times in those master classes, we had a couple of SWAT dudes in the class and they came up with a couple of really hot shit ways of clearing double feeds that they just came up with. Nobody'd ever shown them before, but it was problem-based learning, you know, put into motion. And so oftentimes at the instructor levels, whether they're all female or 50-50 or 70-30 or whatever it is, you really have to challenge them in a way, a very respectful way, that they can solve problems and also bring to the table all of the experience that they have. With the end user, you you do a lot more problem solving for them and find different ways of skinning the cat. Their job is to be able to articulate it back to their agency and say, hey, Luann taught me how to do it this way and do it right and nail the demo in front of their firearms instructor so that new technique or that different, just a tweak of that technique is going to be accepted by their home uh firearms instructors.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Yeah, that's those are great points. So again, you know, you've we've we've mentioned a few times, you know, you've trained thousands of officers across this country and and internationally. In your opinion, what are some of the misconceptions about firearms training that and try firearms instruction that you encounter along the way and how do you deal with those?

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Well, still today, uh, unfortunately, the philosophy still exists from a good majority of male instructors that you should train all female uh officers or all females the exact same way that you train all men. And and this is uh it's a statement out of ignorance or or uh laziness, inexperience, you know, it it's it's still something that that is haunting. Um unfortunately, a lot of a lot of females who continue to struggle because, you know, do we want to be treated the same or do we want to be treated equally? You know, growing up in law enforcement, I didn't need, we used to call it the ladies' tee for you golfers, where the ladies' tee off compared to where the the men tee off or a female standard. I graduated the police academy, number one in fitness, period. Number one in you know, firearms, period, not just for the women. So I didn't really, as a younger person in my 20s, really respect the fact that that there were differences and that women needed to be, though they needed to be addressed. Um, ill-fit equipment is still a problem. You get a female who's smaller in stature and she's still running a 13 or 14-inch pole shotgun stock, um, it puts them at a at a performance disadvantage immediately. And if you're asking them to use the exact same technique, say on a reload or presentation as a 5'10 male, um, then you're really not offering or allowing any type of reasonable accommodation. Telescoping stocks, you know, put an auto loader in her hand compared to a pump. A lot of females are cross-side dominant, which, you know, they're gonna shoulder that thing on their on their left shoulder, and there's no ambi controls, uh, you know, or no ambi controls on the uh on the rifle. So there's just there's so many different things, just little things that you can do to help uh with the performance of somebody who's smaller in stature. Now, having said that, not all women have the same communication styles. Not all women are smaller in stature, not all have smaller hands or, you know, or process information the same. But a good majority of them could use a little thump up and, you know, a little communication, you know, style that's a little bit different. And that's the only reason I'm still in business, to be honest with you, is because some people just don't know how to teach the female brain or the female body. So it it's when a when a training sergeant calls me and says, Can you tell me why I should put or send one of my female officers to your training? The answer is usually no, I can't. I can't tell you. But she can. So you should ask her. There's still a gap somewhere um that exists with with training females for for whatever reason. And sometimes the answer is not a female instructor. Maybe that's just not the answer, maybe it's something else, but um, you know. I still think that's just a major problem.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Just yeah, so so you get that phone call from the agency that says, hey, we want LucaTacl come out and and uh train this course, whatever that course is, and and here's what we want, here's the tweaks that we need, or here's what we think we need. You know, and you're you're coming from you know your home state of Nevada, and you're headed out to somewhere in the Midwest. Talk us kind of through how how do you design a training program for a specific agency or whatever, essentially from the ground up on each one. And you you mentioned earlier that you're continually tweaking the classes that you that Luco Tactical provides. So walk us through the methodology that you use to you know keep that training fresh and updated and and relevant to the the instructors and or the students that you're teaching.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Well, I stay pretty relevant with with what you know the technology is, because oftentimes, I mean, that's a that's a trigger for uh for training um changes. You know, there's Supreme Court decisions or high court decisions that drive changes, technology is another one, officer involved incidents is then again a third. But as far as designing training programs from the ground up, sometimes it's as easy as just determining what the end standard looks like. For example, uh Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, they called us to come in because the FDLE changed a standard on the pistol, rifle, and shotgun coursifier. So we begin with the end in mind. We break down all the terminal objectives and attach a task to each one of them, and then create the enabling objectives at the end of the course, and those are now subtasks. So we we build those out, we drill those down based on what the requirement is. So if, say for example, the pistol class that we did, give me all of the standards and what the rules are, and FDLE does a pretty good job of stating those. And taking a look at the times, what has changed, asking where the wheels fall off. So I have to have access to the trainers. Where do the wheels fall off? Um, what is the equipment that's being used? Oh, yeah, they just went to a dot last year. So now they've got a new piece of equipment and a new course of fire that requires them to do some lateral movement and it's under time. So you take all these variables and it's just it's human performance technology one-on-one. I mean, that's the other half of my my master's. And for me, it's the by giving me the end result, you're training to the standard. So the very first day is just the basic fundamental stuff. You know, and oh, by the way, make sure those, you know, those dots, make sure you know where they're zeroed and that they're in fact zeroed. Because a lot of times you'll give somebody, I'm not just talking about PBSO, I'm talking nationally, you give them this new technology, and then you don't teach them how to verify uh that it, you know, the dot is where it needs to be. And that's the that's the operator's responsibility. And so we teach them, if they if they weren't taught before, let's verify that we're zeroed where we need to be before we go any further. And that creates a discipline with them also. So a lot of times to answer your question, it's just a matter of what is the standard? You know, if it's a class like combat speed and accuracy, then you know, a lot of times case studies will give you a really good idea of what a standard might be. Um there's uh a lot of excellent, unfortunately, or fortunately, uh officers and other other folks that have taken that test so we get the lesson. So again, you can reverse engineer um a lot of the drills and the things that are the priorities based on on uh those objectives.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Stay tuned for more with Luann Hamlin right after this break.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

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SPEAKER_03 21:58

Let me ask you this question. So you do that work in the beginning, you take those those end tasks, you do that work to prep to prepare the class. How do you measure success? How do you know that what you're teaching and what you're pushing out is being received and is is being taken back by those students and utilized further?

SPEAKER_04 22:18

So the ultimate is, you know, how do you determine whether or not what you did worked, right? Uh the obvious answer is an officer-involved shooting. And if you have an officer-involved shooting and they say, hey, you know what? You were with me. And that's happened a number of times. Um, I don't know if you've gotten those calls or those emails, but I I wish I would have saved them from the very beginning. Um, real-world situations where people can say, I I you were talking to me. This is exactly what you said to me. It's what you said to me in that class. That is, I mean, that just makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. That's happened more than once. Um, oftentimes it's a training sergeant that sends me an email, hey, uh so-and-so uh showed up to Qual yesterday and she passed with flying colors. That's absolutely a measure of success. Uh if it's a developmental marksmanship class, we always do uh a shooting assessment at the beginning of the class and a shooting assessment at the end of the class and and see what the improvement is. And I'm not gonna throw like uh uh an absolute number, but I'm gonna go with like 90%. People will improve. If it if it's even just you know, taking a group size down an inch, that's that's a measure of success, and you celebrate those little tiny baby steps, you celebrate every little win, even if it's just uh measuring an inch, because for the shooter, they understand now that they have the aptitude to get better. And a lot of times it's 150 rounds or less. So um if it's passing a qual course, if it's just showing up with a with a better attitude, if now they're showing up on the open range days because now they've been given some homework and they'd like to practice, those are all measures of success.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Yeah, I think that's that's huge. You know, uh any instructor who has spent time on the line with a new recruit or a seasoned officer, and you pick up something that's going on, you pick up something with their whatever mechanics that they're using, you give them that pointer, and then you watch throughout the remainder of the session and you find that they're improving. Their confidence improves, their accuracy improves, their techniques improve. Like those small wins, a lot of times we don't acknowledge, but those are small wins that can can pay dividends in the end in those real real world, real life situations. So yeah, I think any of that information is is top-notch.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

So just if their attitude about training and going to the range changes just a little bit, improves just a little bit. I mean, that's a that's a win because a lot of them, a lot of them hate training.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yeah. And one one of my best one of my best wins ever was taking a female officer that worked in my department who despised going to the range. Like she would do whatever she had to do to get out of going to the range. And when I took over as the range master, and we developed a few courses and did a few things, and I just sat and talked with her and said, Hey, it's gonna be different. We're gonna try some new things, we're gonna go after a couple of things. She came to that first session and she was done with the session. She's like, This was the most fun I've had in a long time. I can't wait to come back. That's a huge win, right? That's a huge win. And I, you know, I can tell you the truth, I don't know if her scores improved. I don't know if her, you know, her techniques were great. But I'll tell you what, at the end of the day, she had a great day, she had a great time. If nothing else, her confidence got better. And that that's again, as instructors, that's all we're looking for, right? Is to prepare our people the best way that we can to make sure that we're giving them the best techniques and the best tools to go out and stay safe, stay alive. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

We gotta sleep, we gotta sleep good. I mean, you need to give them everything you have, and and then you know, a lot of times you Jesus take the wheel, you know. I mean, you know, and I'm not just talking about females, uh I'm just saying, you know, I've trained in the academy for years, two different academies. You're like, boy, I helped this kid, woof, you know. But unfortunately, with a lot of women, still they have abusive, dysfunctional relationships with their firearms and with their firearms trainers. Sure. And it's like, oh man. So it's for to provide an intervention, uh, if it's if only for two days, just to come in and I'm gonna tell them the same thing that you're gonna tell them, Greg. I tell them the same thing you tell them, but I just probably do it a little bit different. Yeah, you know, and and maybe that's the kicker, or maybe the fact that women, you know, uh it's an all a lot of times it's an all-female environment. And if you're relaxed in an in a learning environment, you're gonna take in more information, you're gonna be able to apply more information. And so uh we knew early on that we were gonna be able to do something, and we were gonna be able to do it just a little bit different, and we're still doing it a little bit different. So um, yeah, maybe just changing the attitude is, you know, that's the rest the rest can follow, you know. 30% of the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah, and that and that's I think that's a huge part of it. I mean, anybody can stand up in a red shirt with a card and and you know, next course of fire is and read what it is and blow the whistle and you know, cease fire and mark targets and do whatever it is. But you know, the the true the the true measure of an instructor and their worth is the connection to the student. And is that student respecting what the what you know have they built that rapport? Have they built the ability to have that communication, positive and negative, do so in a positive manner, in a positive way, and keep that person engaged and and keep them flowing, you know, as they as you can try continue to try to impart knowledge and try to you know make them better as we move through this? So, you know, so again, just maybe just a little practical application again. Where where do you see currently, uh you know, again, with all your experience, where do you see the biggest gaps in training of law enforcement officers today?

SPEAKER_04 28:33

You know, in in 2020, I sat on a panel um at the SHAT show with Harvey Heaton, um myself and uh Bill Campbell, John Farnham, and um Mike Boyle, I want to say. And my opening statement was law enforcement and law enforcement training is in trouble. And I stated a number of of blue-on-blue shootings, um bad officer-involved shootings, and the litigation that that would follow. That was in 2020, uh, January. So we all know what happened after that, uh, starting in Minneapolis, May of 2020. So for me, uh it is now what it was then, and that is the fact that many agencies are simply not training, period. Now, there's a number of reasons. No time, no dime, no human resources. Agencies are working at about 80% if they're lucky. The attrition that followed 2020, they've not gotten back up to you know, full numbers, etc. But the fact that agencies still rely on an annual qualification, which they know does not compare to quality training. I think the future direction is more failure to train litigation. Um, you know, if you're looking at, I just answered this question for a Michigan agency about why they should train uh firearms specific to the police cyclists. And I sent them two cases, Papa versus the City of Margate and Zukal v. Denver. And both of those, those uh case studies, the the the outcomes, uh demonstrated the importance of proper training in the use of deadly force. Failure to train, leading to liability for the city and the officer when inadequate training was linked to a wrongful death. Agencies display their deliberate indifference to properly training their officers. And the standard is not failure to qualify, never has been. Standard is failure to train. Even though this is a high-risk, low frequency event, um, you know, you could look at Graham, you can look at all these other cases. So when the officers are not training with their firearms, then how do the firearms instructors hone their craft? So it's a two-pronger. Uh in the last 10 years, I've noticed uh a lost generation of experienced firearms instructors uh through attrition, and also because they're just the ones that are there are incredibly inexperienced. They are not becoming firearms instructors. Like you said earlier, they're becoming range officers, and there's a big difference. So I'm not just talking about, you know, pulling the trigger on paper. I'm talking about decision making, communication requirements, shooting uh and moving, uh, avoiding getting hit, no shoot, weapon transitioning, uh going down the scale on the gun belt, uh, you know, use of force as a sliding scale. They should be, you know, integrating their systems, working with a partner, close quarters stuff, all that stuff. And I when you're asking people to, I mean, we see it at ILFE. Sometimes people show up, it's like, man, this is your first ILF. Yeah, how long have you been a fire instructor? 10 years. Okay. Um, how how often do you train? Well, we really don't. We just, you know, we qualify once a year. So you don't have 10 years' experience, you have 10 reps. It's a big difference.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, I think those that you talk about there, you know, the guy that's been in the fire instructor for 10 years and doesn't train is as equally as the guy who shows up to the conference and says, hey, I we didn't have a firearms instructor, and my sergeant said, You're the guy, so go get some training. Right. And so what dog does that guy have in the fight? Right. And and and maybe it is, maybe, maybe he does have some want and some willingness to to get the education and better himself to be able to start imparting knowledge on his on his crew. But where's the where's the personal investment? Where's the personal endeavor to be like, I'm going to hone this craft to be the best that I can be, so that I can then, you know, impart that knowledge on others. And so I think there's a there's some of that that that is missing in our industry today. And, you know, our our newer generations of of and uh officers coming through are are vastly different than some of us that are a little gray around the edges, right? Where you know the the you know, the the the concept was I'm gonna fight and scratch and bite and claw to get that instructor position. And then I'm gonna put in for every class I can put in for and and get as many rounds downrange, you know, and getting told by people far more experienced than I am, hey, here's how you need to do it. Hey, here's what you need to think about. Hey, here's where you've been, you know, which for me, I will say has been, you know, where ILFE has been such a huge asset for me, being able to train with people from all over the country and all over the world, you know, and teaching classes at ILFE and taking classes at ILFE. And I'm telling you, every one of those things I show up to, every class I go to, I learn something new. I challenge myself. I, you know, and it's again, I think that's some of the things that I don't know how we work to impart that in our next generation of farms instructors coming ahead, but you know, getting them to understand that, man, they gotta be, they gotta hone their craft at every moment. And then I, and again, where I think ILFE can be a uh a resource for those, you know, those younger people is when they say, well, my agency doesn't want to, you know, they don't have the money, or you don't have the time, or they don't want to send me to this, or they don't want to send me to that. I mean, get a hold of the ILF, someone in the ILF membership, and we'll write you a letter. I'll write you a letter tomorrow that says, here's why you need to go, here's why it's important. You know, and and I and we know we have those people amongst our ranks, we know that we have those people among our industries because there's so many of those people that show up on their own dime, you know, with their own ammo, and they're just to get better. And so I think the more that we can spread that message to this next generation of firearms instructors of just the importance of that ongoing, updated, realistic training in real-world situations rather than just punching holes in paper at the range with the dirt burn.

SPEAKER_04 35:11

So well, you you hit the nail on the head. I mean, my first job, I think I got paid 75 bucks a class to go teach, paid for my gas, you know, and and so for the guys are that are saying, well, you know, they won't send me here, we'll send me there, you know, that I'm throwing the flag on that. I'm throwing the BS flag on that because um, you know, go volunteer. You got a police academy to college, go volunteer, see what it really looks like on the other, you know, on the other side of the line. See what, see what these people really do. And I don't, you know, I don't really care if you're a great shooter. That's not even the most important thing. That skill set will come. Um, but if people, you know, you're gonna go work an overtime shift. And how much are you gonna make on that overtime shift? I mean, I don't know, 500 bucks or whatever. What are you gonna buy with that? You're gonna go out and buy a new gun or go buy something for your truck or whatever. Um, why not why not buy yourself a conference or a shooting class or an instructor development class, something that will appreciate in time, you know, rather than depreciate like that whatever thing that you're gonna buy, that pair of shoes or whatever. And I challenge women to all that, boy, that coach bag or that that Gucci, man, that looks beautiful. That's sharp, man. We'll get the pair of shoes to match that. And how much money have you spent on your own training? I mean, it's an insurance policy, but you gotta pay the premiums. Invest in your own future, something that we'll appreciate in time. And when those guys finally make them, you know, their way to ILFE, we find them, don't we? We do. We find them. Hey man, you're the first, this is your first year here, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had one guy that took a class, he wasn't really happy with the classes, said, Where are you from? He's from another country. What do you want to do? Oh, you want to go take a pistol class? Come with me. This guy right over here will take care of you. You know what? Go see Todd Fletcher. I bet he's got an extra gun since you broke yours. I mean, there's always people at that conference that remember their first time. I remember mine. And I'll never forget it. You know, you're in Hallsville, Missouri, September 1997. And when I went to my first firearms instructor school, I was told then that there's two organizations that are absolutely mandatory that you've got to join if you're going to be a professional firearms instructor. One was the NRA, and the second one was ILFE, and that was in 1994. So it it changed my world. Two organizations that changed my world, ILFE and H ⁇ K. And once you get a taste of excellence, you cannot stomach mediocrity. The trainers that showed up for this year's ATC off the charts. Just very proud moment. If there's one thing that ILFE does, they put on a really, really good conference. And the young guys that are coming up, they are fun to watch.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

That's for sure. Well, and and again, I think, you know, yeah, you know, the conference typically is, you know, the last few years in Texas or in Florida, and I see people look at that and like, I you know, that's a long way to travel to go. But you're talking about spending$550 for a six days of training with top-tier instructors where you're getting snippets from each of these people, and not only getting snippets from each of these people, but then you're hanging out with them in a hotel bar afterwards and and talking shop and getting more tidbits through that entire week. And uh, you know, the networking piece of that is huge. And you know, I picked up as much as an instructor sitting around having a beer with the guy that taught that class earlier in the day as much as I did sitting on the line with him and shooting. So yeah, it's a it's it's a it's a huge thing for sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

Yeah. Yeah, and they there's an international flair there too, where you can, you know, the guys, the Aussies when they're at the conference, I mean, they they're just phenomenal. Uh and and awesome dudes to hang out with, too. I mean, just the whole philosophy and the attitude of instruction and stuff. And I think the biggest thing with ILFE is to be able to provide shortcuts to people who are you know brand new instructors or or like I said earlier, who have a problem or a challenge. There's somebody at that conference that has had that same issue. And like you said, the networking, it just gives it gives instructors shortcuts. Hey, I need a lesson plan for this. Oh, here you go. Oh that was easy.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

You know, uh but that's what we're there for, you know. It's uh it is a give back opportunity, but also it's an opportunity to learn so much. So um yeah, it's I I sometimes, you know, money, sometimes getting that kitsch pass from home, sometimes I mean there's some hurdles to overcome, but if a a guy or gal really wants to take their their professional uh craft up to the next level, then they that's that's the place, you know. It's a boutique conference, you're not gonna have thousands of people there. It's a high value boutique event that um, you know, it's there's nothing else like it out there.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

So true. So true. So well, Luann, you know, I want to give you the opportunity to give your your plug for Luca Tactical and and where uh our listeners can reach out to uh to you or Kathy and and you know find a way to get instruction from some of the best when it comes to teaching some of these courses. So give us the give us the the sales pitch for Luca Tactical.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

Luca Tactical. I got my coin here. It says 25 years, but it's actually outdated now, 27 years. Um go to the website lucatactical.com, L-O-U-K-A-Tactical. If you don't know how to spell that, then man, you shouldn't be listening to this podcast. Um you can email me at Luann BlackWidow at AOL. If you're gonna make fun of that, that's fine. I'm holding on to it. Uh, or Luann at Lucatactical.com. Um, very good about returning emails. And I've got a staff of instructors who, like I said before, they all specialize in in different types of things. If I don't have a solution for you, um, I've got a pretty, pretty thick black book that uh I know somebody who knows somebody. So uh that's where we're at. That's we're in legacy building years right now, and uh it's just helping helping the next uh person, the next generation come along. So if I can help, give me a shout.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Awesome. Well, hey, Luann, thanks for spending a little bit of time with us today. I really appreciate the insight. You know, uh I'm honored to call you a friend. I'm honored to call you a colleague in this uh in this industry, and uh I'm super glad that we had a chance to hang out this afternoon and and uh chat a little bit about shooting guns. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Joining iLefty isn't just about being a member, it's a commitment to excellence. Your affiliation with iLefty is more than membership, it's an endorsement of your commitment to excellence and an investment in your future as a firearms trainer. Join today at IALPSI.com.