Motii Mini: What Nobody Tells You Before You Implement a CRM

Motii Mini: What Nobody Tells You Before You Implement a CRM

In this episode, Katie Tassone-Milligan sits down with Motii co-founder and CRM expert Ben Fuller to unpack the uncomfortable truths behind CRM implementations — the stuff nobody warns you about upfront. With over 1,000 implementations and 5,000 demos under his belt, Ben shares the real talk on ROI timelines, why so many implementations fail, and whether you should bring in a partner or go it alone.

In this episode:

• How long it actually takes to see ROI from a CRM — and why your sales cycle changes everything
• The two biggest reasons CRM implementations fail (and how to avoid them)
• Why overcomplicating phase one is one of the most common and costly mistakes
• The "garbage in, garbage out" rule — and why dirty data kills CRM adoption
• Why old-school salespeople resist CRMs and how to get genuine buy-in from your team
• The honest case for using an implementation partner versus doing it yourself
• What to look for in a CRM partner — track record, industry experience, and ongoing support
• Why agency size matters: the sweet spot between one-person bands and giant agencies
• Why flexible, modern platforms like Pipedrive and Monday beat legacy tools like Salesforce and Dynamics
• Why a CRM is never truly "set and done" — and why that's actually a good thing

Resources & Links:

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Modi acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia. We pay our respects to elders past and present and acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this land. Welcome to the Modi Playbook. If you've ever felt like your systems are technically in place but somehow still feel chaotic behind the scenes, you're in the right spot. This is where we share what we're seeing, what's working, what's not, and the lessons businesses learn the hard way. Think of it as practical strategy straight from the trenches. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Welcome back to another Modi Playbook mini episode where we tackle the questions we get asked the most and give you the answers straight. I'm Katie, marketing and brand strategist for Modi, and I'm joined again by Modi's original co-founder and CRM expert, Ben Wuller. Welcome back, Ben.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Good morning, Cody.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

And in our last mini episode, we talked about what a CRM actually is. We even defined that acronym, folks, how it stacks up against spreadsheets, PS, not very well, and how to know if you're ready. And today we're going to dive into the stuff that nobody really warns you about. And that's around return on investment, ROI timelines, why implementations fail. And whether or not you should consider a partner or you can DIY it. Do it all yourself. So again, I think we are very well placed having you on this episode, Ben, having done over a thousand implementations and five thousand demos.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Oh, don't remind me. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

So let's dive in. Right. Let's go right at the start.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

So how long does it actually take to see a return on investment from a C You took the words right out of my mouth, which is how long is a piece of string? Look, it is a complex question in a sense that it really depends on the size of your business, the complexity of your business. The humans that work at your business, are they tech savvy? Are they going to adopt easily? Are they flexible? Or are they a bunch of 60-year-old blokes who hate the thought of opening a computer and are probably never going to do it? And so it really does depend. But let's talk typical. I think let's talk typical, right? So your typical business, let's say, let's say there's 20 staff, let's say there's four or five salespeople, a bunch of admins, some accounting people, and then the people who fulfill the orders, whatever those orders might be, right? Okay. Yep. I think a typical business like that can see a return, an ROI, at the end of the first full month, right? So let's say that you go live at the end of March.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

And the team's properly trained up and they start using the system. Yeah, it's a little bit clunky for them to begin with. They're trying to get used to everything and stuff like that. But as part of the implementation, you would have got all their existing data, put it into the system. You've provided them with a video-based training manual. You've given them some live training sessions. They've asked all the questions that they need to, and they're now starting to do two things record their interactions by way of activities and notes in the system, and then create the follow-up for it. And it's really that creating the follow-up for the next thing that they need to do within their role within the business that creates that ROI, right? Because less things slip through the cracks and it means that more deals are closed, higher conversion rates, all of that type of stuff. And so I think that the answer is at the end of the first full month, so 30 days, you can and look, Katie, this depends on the length of your sales cycle.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

So if your sales cycle is six months long, then look, the ROI is not like true return on investment is not going to be there until you until you start closing the deals related to the implementation of the CRM, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

But and so, yeah, okay. You've got to be a little bit flexible with the interpretation of meaning of ROI in this in this example, right? Of course. I think 30 days you'll start to see the results, the positive results of the CRM implementation, if not the actual return on investment.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, once you've got that set up and people are using it. I guess the using it back there and some of the other things you touched on really leads us to our next question, which is why do so many CRM implementations fail?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

The main reason CRM implementations fail is well, there's two reasons. One, people try to cram too much into going live in phase one. They try to build a finished product. And the adoption with the shivers that work at the companies that have to use the system, the adoption curve is so steep that people begin pushing back against it because you're trying to replace 20 different processes at once. You're far better off going, we're going to carve out the core of the sales process, and that's going to be phase one, and we're going to get people up and running in the system, even if it's not everyone in the company, but the core sales team and a few managers and some admins, for example. Yep. Yep. And so I think one of the reasons it's fails is people overcomplicate the setup of the CRM. Some CRM systems, Salesforce, for example, just complicated full stop.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yes. Yes. I mean we were I I can't remember if it was this episode or not, but we're talking about like you have to have an expert on your team to run it, let alone having somebody that you pay externally. And if that person goes, it's that's problematic.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Salesforce has its place, but that place is probably about 2008, I'd say. Um honestly, like for some industries where there are specifically engineered existing setups that are so niche and those setups exist inside of Salesforce, then 100% that's the right option for you. It is just such a minuscule part of the broader business community that I think anyone sort of like if you're a typical business like everyday business and you're going to set up a sales salarium, Salesforce would be at the wrong end of a very long list. And so to come back to your question, it's the complexity that stops adoption as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, for sure. Because if you don't get buy-in from your team, whether that's because they're finding it just too hard to use, because it's too complex, or if they don't understand why you're rolling it out, I suppose that's another big factor. You've got to have that buy-in from the right people. Like you said, if you're going to roll it out for only some of them, it needs to be like the core people who are going to use it are the ones that have to have some input during your implementation process. And if they haven't had that, they can dig their heels in if they're stubborn.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah. And look, some people are under the impression that businesses implement a CRM to keep tabs on them. And that's not why businesses implement a CRM. They implement it so that they can have better data segmentation, less leads fall through the cracks, their reporting is better, and all those benefits we've spoken about ad nauseum. But some people, some especially old school salespeople, are under the impression it's about keeping tabs on them. And it's just not. But if you haven't communicated properly to your team about why you're implementing a CRM, they will default to, oh, it's so they can check up on me. But it's not the case.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

It's an us and them thing, isn't it? It's a it's a it's a mentality that doesn't work in these businesses, and especially a CRM is about bringing all of your processes together in one place. And so if you have that us and them, it's not going to work, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah. At the end of the day, I think a CRM is about making the lives of your salespeople easier, right? If we're talking about a sales CRM, right? It's about making the lives of your salespeople easier so that they can do their job in a better fashion.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

And if that is the way that the project is introduced to the team and you get buy-in on that exact result or outcome that you're looking for, which is to improve the lives of the working lives of the salespeople, then you will genuinely get buy-in from the team.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yes. Yes, definitely. Definitely. And I guess there's a few other things that we could probably talk about in terms of why COM implementations fail that we don't personally come across because it's not how we operate. But things like no ongoing support or training, that's going to lead to, you know, a bad result, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Yeah, because you do you don't get everything right the first time round. No one does. There's always small changes, or sometimes large, that need to be made when, as we said before, when the rubber hits the road as far as uh the CRM going live, and yeah, you will need to make changes. So you do need a little bit of ongoing support. It doesn't have to be significant, but it just needs to be there so that you have the confidence to be able to go ask the question or say, hey, this isn't quite working for us. What should we do here? And so yes, that support is critical.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Mm-hmm. Very important. The other thing that's a big factor, I'm sure you would agree, is data and how good it is, right? I think I've heard you say this before garbage in, garbage out, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Like we've got to make sure dirty data kills CRMs.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

It's just so that I mean that's something that I know you guys do really well is making sure that in the process that the data is going to be good because it's no good you guys rolling it out if then it's not gonna be effective for them. But yeah, that's a factor.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

In the last episode, we spoke a little bit around this type of stuff. And I think that from a data perspective, we have a we have a data team, about eight people in the data team, and we do a lot of deduplication, a lot of merging of databases from different platforms and things like that, importing them into Pipe Driver Monday and that type of thing. And if the team doesn't have confidence in the data the day that they go live, then again, that adoption is it's going to kill the adoption. Yeah. And so it's equally as important as training because you know what, it actually makes training easier because when someone sees their customer, their own customer, and that person in the system with that phone number and everything, they're like, oh, and it orientates them in the system, right? So now I I understand now I'm pointing the right way. I get I get this because I recognize the data in front of me. Absolutely. And so that does make it easier from an adoption perspective as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

It's not theory anymore, it's it's real life. Exactly. They can actually survive all that, yeah, for sure. And I guess it, you know, like it's there's an interesting stat that I found out before this episode, and it's that most sources put CIM failure rates at between 30 and 70 percent. So it's really not a rare occurrence. It's actually quite high. And I think that's really that adoption factor. And it does come down to the right setup, which conveniently leads to my next question. Should you use an implementation partner or do it yourself? I feel like the answer is obvious, but let's dive into it anyway, shall we?

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah, the answer is obvious. Like you should, right? Even if you're experienced with CRM, you should be focusing on your core business rather than trying to build yourself. But look, I I get the use case of, hey, I've set up CRMs before, I know what I'm doing, I'm gonna set up my own pipeline, a few activity types, a few lost reasons, and I I can import data bang ready to go. And look, if that's the case, what I would do in that situation is um try to hire someone who's an expert on whatever platform it is that you're implementing for at least a few hours so that you don't make the obvious mistakes because it is very easy to get bogged down in like using a platform not the way that it's designed to be used, it might feel intuitive. So go ahead and do stuff yourself if you're capable of it. But like less than less than one percent of people really have that ability. That expertise, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah, so I guess we we agree. Bringing an expert is a good idea. And we would obviously, in most cases, recommend Modi as being the best option. But if we were to zoom out, if we were to zoom out, yeah, uh, what would you suggest people look for in a partner?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Oh, okay. You do want a bit of a track record, right? I think that that's important. Um, if you can find someone that's a thing like we're Modi's very strong in, let's say, the construction industry, right? And we have some fantastic solutions because we've done it a hundred times, like literally a hundred times. Yeah. And so you probably do want an agency who has a bit of experience in your space um and is not sort of learning on the go. Sometimes that's not possible, right? If you sell some niche product to some niche group in some brand new sector, sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

But but yeah, I think an agency with a run on runs on the board who seems to be at the cutting edge and has worked within your industry. I think those are probably three things that I would go looking for. Having a look at case studies.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

I mean that's that's what we would have looked at as well. Like you say, we brought in the experts for when it comes to intercom. So you're looking for somebody who's got track record in the industry certified, or you know, obviously recognized by the Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

And so we we checked, like because we're intercom partners as well, right? We checked, hey, who would you recommend in this space given what we're trying to do? And so yeah, we got some recommendations um as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So yeah, I think And I guess the uh the other thing Sarah's gonna just say is you just want to have that ongoing support model too. You want to have somebody that you can still reach out to like post-implementation, like for the adoption, for upgrades, for maintenance, for just general support and training, you know, new team members coming in, all that. You want to still have a relationship with the partner that you do bring on, even if you're not regularly using them, you want to have that relationship.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yeah, and I think that's the thing about working with a business that does have a few departments, right? So, for example, at Modi, I I work predominantly in sales. We have um a pretty decent sized implementation team, but we also have a support team, we have our data guys, uh, we have our sort of developers um separate to our automation specialists. And so not saying that you need to be sort of 30 people like what Modi is, but I would be wary of the one man bands, one woman bands, because it's very easy. And I've having, as you said before, I sort of founded Modi, right, in the first little bit, working almost on my own or with myself and Amber. And it's very easy for us to in those days get a job done, move on to the next shiny thing, and maybe not be as responsive from a support, nowhere near as responsive as what Modi is these days, right? Because we were really stretched from a resource perspective of trying to balance everything. And so you don't need, I wouldn't go with a massive agency because I think sort of like unless you've got an unlimited budget, some of the really big players they charge a lot of money and you can get lost amongst it. Um and so I think the sweet spot is sort of like between 10 and 40 sort of thing. Like I'd be I'd like to sit with an agency in that in that bracket, I reckon.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah. Yeah. Where you where you're a person and there's a relationship, you're not a number.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Like in the very city.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

And everyone in the business knows the company and the person at the company and has a relatively good idea of, oh, that's their setup, these are the integrations. And so you've got a pretty good idea of what's going on in there. And I can picture most of our clients' setups without needing to go into the system and I know their industry and I know a few of their staff and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's massive. That's massive. And I guess that's the thing, just circling back to what we do at Modi and and and the benefits of having that partner set up is if you do it right in the beginning, you're not undoing it six months later, but you might be tweaking it. And then you've got that ongoing support and the ability to evolve with it over time. Because we're kind of pretend that it's a s it's it's not a set and done thing. It's not. But you you don't want to be undoing it like we were talking about those other corporate, you know, huge big products where you where you're like, oh, this was a mistake and we've got to start from scratch. But you do need to know that it will evolve over time.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Yep. Yeah, definitely. And I think the nice thing about the products that we work with, so Monday, PipeDrive, Intercom, Pandadoc, they're all sort of latest generation software that is flexible, easy to iterate upon, and you're not stuck in, let's say you've gone down a certain path, let's say in dynamics, for example, and to reverse is difficult or impossible. Like if you do make a mistake and you do get something wrong, these smaller, more nimble products are definitely the way to go because you do have much more flexibility if a mistake has been made.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah. And that's huge, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Don't choose some little niche product that is only made in Australia and built for people who are in the western suburbs of Brisbane, right? It's just it's not going to grow and scale with you.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah. And I think even though it feels like we side we got sidetracked, it all does come back into, you know, when you are somebody who's done a thousand implementations and five thousand demos. Yeah. You do know. That's the thing. And that once again comes back to the benefit of bringing an expert in, is that you've got insights that may not seem super obvious at the beginning, but it's valuable, super valuable information that makes a big difference. So yeah, I think it's I think it's been useful even if we did go off on a little tangent. That's cool. But in our next mini episode, we will be pulling back the curtain on the actual process of what a CRM implementation looks like, how long it usually takes. Okay. Once again, how long is a piece of string? And what you can do to set yourself up before you even speak to anybody. That one might be a true question too, because I know how you deal about that. But anyway, we will see.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

I do have an answer for that, but let's leave that for the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Exactly, exactly. But uh, we will leave that for the next episode. But thank you very much for joining me then, and thank you for listening as well. Bye for now.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Cheers. Thanks for having me, Caddy. See everyone.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

That's it for another episode of the Modi Playbook. One shift, one system, one measurable improvement. All information shared in this podcast is general in nature. For tailored advice specific to your business, visit Modi.co/slash playbook and book a momentum call with our team. See you next time.