What's Got the World Talking?

Organic Social in 2026: What Marketers Need to Know

• WPR • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this episode of What’s Got the World Talking? we’re exploring the power and potential of organic social in 2026.

Jane is joined to discuss this pivotal aspect of brand marketing by B2B and B2C specialists Alex Dixon, senior social media strategy director, and Natalie Wright, senior social media director. 

From the role organic plays in a world where paid is delivering at scale, to thoughts on balancing finite budget and resources with ever-expanding platform options, this is essential for listening for anyone wanting to make their organic strategy work harder.

If you're fascinated by the topics that get the marketing world talking, make sure you don't miss an episode of What's Got the World Talking?

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SPEAKER_01

My clients love when I use the term linked influencer. Did Curry's invent EGC or just accelerate EGC, do you think?

SPEAKER_00

Definitely accelerated it. We were doing it before Curry's. I was just thinking the same, Jane, and I was like, hang on a second. I think more brands are now coming to the realisation that it isn't just a Gen Z platform.

SPEAKER_02

Our top-performing posts across the board for our clients are those that are injected with personality and life and dynamism.

SPEAKER_00

The role of organic is that kind of taking them on that journey, building that community, getting them to invest in some way kind of emotionally with the brand.

SPEAKER_01

Is TikTok where it's all happening now? But there is a perception that it's for teenagers.

SPEAKER_02

It's the kind of hotspot for the sort of the finance, the tech. You were saying earlier, weren't you that? Customer services, sport, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

I think you probably know what my answer is going to be, Jane, but absolutely. You're going to hazard a guess. Welcome to What's Got the World Talking, the podcast that delves into what's in the mind of the marketing, PR, and social media world. In this episode, we're exploring the pivotal role that organic social plays in today's marketing strategies. With paid social delivering scale, what should brands be using organic for now, and how can marketers demonstrate its impact? At the same time, with ever more platforms and formats, how do you avoid spreading finite resources too thinly? I'm joined by Senior Social Media Strategy Director Alex Dixon and Senior Social Media Director Natalie Wright, experts in B2B and Consumer Organic Social respectively, as we discuss what the organic landscape looks like and what excites them about what's coming in this always evolving space. So hello and welcome.

SPEAKER_02

Do you want to start by introducing yourselves? Yeah, so I'm Alex, I'm a Senior Social Media Strategy Director at WPR.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm Nat, I'm Senior Social Media Director at WPR.

SPEAKER_01

So today we are here to talk all things organic social. So do you want to start by just explaining what organic social is?

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, it's anything on your social media feed that doesn't have any ad spend behind it. So organic in the truest sense of the word, it is content that is curated and designed to reach your audience purely on its own merit.

SPEAKER_01

So there was talk, you know, a few years ago that Facebook, I was about to say Mesa, but it wasn't Mesa then back in the days and it was Facebook, was purely a pay-to-play platform and everything. The trend then was to put spend behind everything. We've moved on from that nowadays. It's kind of very different, isn't it? Organic and paid content, two different strategies, two different approaches. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00

I'd say so, wouldn't you? Yeah. There's definitely the, I think what we see, all organic and paid can work in synergy together. But I think what we do and what we do on our day-to-day, we very much look after organic, don't we? And kind of the paid team look after the paid strategies. While a lot of people think that Facebook is a platform where you can't actually organically grow, that's not something that we see with our clients, particularly, I guess, on the consumer side, that that a lot of the clients that I work with are on. Like Facebook is actually one of the main platforms where they can actually reach and engage a large audience.

SPEAKER_02

I I would agree with that. I think paid content absolutely has its place, but it does play a different role. And an engaged organic community can be a real toolkit in your armory.

SPEAKER_01

Brilliant. So a challenging question next. If you could describe the organic social media landscape in one word, just one, what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_02

I would personally say at the moment, fragmented. I feel like there is a real sort of whitewash of awful AI content that has inundated feeds for the last couple of years. Certainly last year it's increased at a rapid rate. And there's the fight back from brands that are trying to push back and say, actually, we've got credible content, we've got reliable narrators who lead our brand. And I think it's really interesting to see, and I really hope that we can move more towards the latter because that's where organic strength lies.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So fragmented is your word, Nat.

SPEAKER_00

I was saying mine's kind of similar as that mine's competitive. I think more so from a place where, say, sort of like five, six years ago, I guess, like pre-COVID times where TikTok hadn't taken off in the UK yet in particular. We were seeing brands compete with other brands, obviously competing with influencers as well, but now we're also competing with content creators, essentially the everyday person who now picks up the phone and can go viral with just their first post. So I think we're seeing a real shift now that we're the brands that we work with in particular aren't just competing with their competitor brands, other brands in different industries, influencers potentially. It's actually content creators of all different shapes and sizes, a lot of the noise now that we're having to cut through and compete with.

SPEAKER_02

My clients love when I use the term linked influencer. Um, that is a new sort of breed, not totally new last year or so, um, because they're realizing they can reap the benefits of the personal profile and how far it can go compared to company pages. So yeah, they are also crowding the marketplace.

SPEAKER_01

You may have answered this already, but what are the biggest shifts you've seen in organic social over the last two, three years, say?

SPEAKER_02

For me, from a B2B perspective, I think there's been a real shift in the right direction, um, in my opinion, away from that corporate product-led comms and towards just much more humanised content. And I know that is a word we hear a lot in marketing terms, and I think it's so important. Um, I keep trying to find a synonym for authenticity because it feels so overused. Um most inauthentic, to be honest. I know, I know. Um, but yeah, I feel like that movement away from thinking we are a B2B brand selling a product or a service, and therefore we must speak in these terms only, and actually lifting the lid and showing that behind the scenes, I think that's growing. It's certainly been the case on consumer, I think, more so in the last couple of years, but that shift is happening now on B2B.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think that's definitely what we're seeing as well on that consumer side, where we used to focus on the product more, the service. It was very functional in the way that we were marketing for brands because that's what a lot of the marketing teams were asking for as well. When actually, when we've shifted towards that people-first approach, that kind of more employee-generated content approach, we're seeing much better results because it is that humanizing of the brand as well, that like you say, works across B2B, but also consumer as well. I think it's putting the people at the front of it, whether that is kind of the people that are the experts across B2B or potentially put in um the customer first and kind of the customer's point of view, um, or even like I said, those employees' points of view as well. Yeah, EGC. Yeah, exactly. That's that's massive at the moment, so of what we do for for our clients, I guess, across both consumer and B2C.

SPEAKER_01

And talking about EGC, CORIS is famous for it. Did CORIS invent EGC or just accelerate EGC? Do you think?

SPEAKER_00

Definitely accelerated it. We were doing it before Curry's. I was just thinking the same, Jay, and I was like, hang on a second. Yeah, and I think what they've done is they've done it really well and they've done it as their kind of like core content format, I guess. They've they've seen the format that works, they've invested in shooting that content with really engaging employees, a mix of employees as well, and they've done it as that kind of almost like repeatable format rather than kind of dipping their toe in and going, oh well, one sort of stream of our content will be employees and then another stream will be focused on something else. They've gone all in on that, and I think it's it's paid off.

SPEAKER_02

I 100% agree. And I feel like what we can learn from the likes of Curries is bravery and sort of stepping outside the box a little bit and actually moving towards something that you're not seeing a lot of but which resonates and doing more of it. And I think, yeah, we we can see that happening in B2B social now as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So on consumer organic social in particular, is TikTok where it's all happening now? Is there still a role for Instagram and Facebook as well? It's easy to forget Facebook, but is there still a role for Facebook as well?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I think the main point on which platform is the best is which dependent on brand and where your audience is as well. I think it's difficult, and I've not found a brand yet where TikTok doesn't work and is it kind of one of the main platforms to use. But there is still a perception that it's for teenagers, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

There is, but I think it's changing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. And I think when we look at brands where the audiences are older, there's there are those kind of like niches that you can tap into. There are people who are kind of like in their 40s, 50s that obviously use TikTok as well. But it's not older than the 18-year-old perception of TikTok users, but there's definitely the there's definitely the there is a broad range of audiences on TikTok. And I think more brands are now coming to the realisation that it isn't just a Gen Z platform, or now I guess like a Gen Alpha platform, it is a platform where you, if your audience is there and you can find that your audience is there, you can have success on it, particularly from um the standpoint where you it is typically easier to not go viral but to reach a large number of people within that audience or kind of within your target audience, um, because of the high reach potential on there. You've got things like TikTok search, like making sure that your content's optimised for SEO again to get in front of the right audiences. So I definitely think that TikTok is one of the key platforms. But like you say, I there's no there's no point ignoring kind of those other channels as well, particularly the likes of, like I said, earlier Facebook, where actually a lot of brands that have been on Facebook for a number of years have legacy audiences on there, and that's you where they're where a lot of reach and kind of that community element comes from because they built that up over kind of like the past decade. I think the likes of, I guess off the top of my head, like Domino's, Reiner, Aldi, kind of like the bigger players, use Facebook as one of their main channels because that they've had it for years and they've built it up. I think probably where you get to now is if you're a brand that doesn't have a Facebook presence, it is typically harder to grow on Facebook versus TikTok. So then it's the kind of balance of looking at well, where is my firstly, where is my audience? What are my competitors doing, what is going on in the industry, then deciding where realistically to put the time and effort.

SPEAKER_01

I think we're creatures of a habit as well, aren't we? So if you've woken up every morning for the last decade and looked at Facebook, you still do it. You don't even notice that you are it really, but you're still doing it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's the news for me, I think. Social media, which is probably bad, but it's like it's the what people would usually, you know, wake up and look through a newspaper, I would wake up and scroll through feeds, and Facebook is one of them because there's different things going on in each platform as well. Yeah, absolutely. Like I say, it's when you've got the built of that community over time, there's no point neglecting it just because the rest of the world is saying, well, Facebook's like not the platform you should be on, you shouldn't put your own time into TikTok. When actually, if you've got if you've got a solid social media strategy and you put the time and effort into it, there's no reason why you can't be active across multiple channels and you should be really because there are different audiences there.

SPEAKER_01

And how does that work for B2B, Alex? Is it is it all about LinkedIn or are there roles for other platforms, YouTube, X, for example?

SPEAKER_02

I think it it goes back to what Nat was saying, really, is that you can have, particularly in B2B, multiple audiences. Um I just worked on a client strategy that had no fewer than 11 uh different job roles. Um, it was it was actually great fun to work on because we drilled down into who are these people, what drives them, where do they spend their time. And actually what came out was um LinkedIn was key for a certain um demographic, but Facebook was also incredibly important as well for the less desk-based, more sort of trade um focused audience. And if you think about it, um largely independent businesses, smaller businesses are going to be using Facebook to advertise their services, so they'll be using it daily for their business, and therefore we can find them and get that visibility with them too. So for me, I I do have a soft spot for LinkedIn. It has been something that I've been sort of focused on for probably the entirety of my career with WPR actually. So that would be getting on 11 years. So I do definitely have a fondness for it and think it's really sort of it is the place for genuine organic visibility and growth and true sort of engagement and click-through, more so than other channels. Um, but there's no point in spending all of your um investing all your time in LinkedIn for a trade audience that is sat there on Facebook wanting entirely different content. And there is a place for the likes of YouTube, X. I think with YouTube, um, we're really seeing its broadcast reach hugely enhanced and you know, Ofcom release stats last year that showed it actually pulled ahead of ITV and is now only second to BBC in terms of TV viewers. So YouTube behaviour is changing, and you know, brands really need to be doing more sort of longer form thought leadership content on YouTube to align with that where they can. Um, and as for X, I mean it's a divisive one, let's face it. It's um it's got its issues, but there are obviously industries out there that thrive on this platform and are still seeing success with it. And obviously, it's it's a real-time channel. Um, when news breaks, it's the kind of hotspot for the sort of the finance, the tech. You were saying earlier, weren't you that customer services, sport, absolutely as well.

SPEAKER_01

I think if your brand wanting to talk to people who are interested in sport, it's despite the controversies, still a great platform to use for that.

SPEAKER_02

And it goes back to Nat's point, like use what works. Like ultimately, I think it's easy for me to sit here and say, Oh, yeah, absolutely, look at LinkedIn as your number one. But what you need to do is sit down and assess your audience and understand, like I said earlier, what motivates them and where they might be sitting. And that could well be YouTube if they absorb content in a different way. So I think it's about assessing where your strategy should should sit. And something that I always say to my clients is don't spread yourself too thinly and try and execute five channels brilliantly because you simply won't have the resources to do that realistically, unless you're a Fortune 500 brand, I expect. Um, so yeah, my best advice is like find those sort of key two to three channels and do them really, really well.

SPEAKER_01

And do you still think LinkedIn works better for individuals than corporate pages, or a combination of the two? Definitely a combination.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I think the algorithm has shifted massively in favour of personal profiles. So get your people on LinkedIn, get them using it, get that EGC out there because ultimately it's that classic trope of people buy from people, and now trust, credibility, it's just so much more important than ever. And more to the point, the likes of LinkedIn will really rate and value that content and are much more likely to show it. Saying that, the company page is also a Star Wars for any business in this space, I think. Um, as I said earlier, organic reach, clicks, engagement has always been really strong on this channel. And it feels like one that is only sort of making strides in terms of where it's going. And, you know, that we could talk about it all day, but you've also got the likes of LLMs citing LinkedIn content more and more often. And you are better to place that via your people rather than your business because AI trusts people more than businesses and is more likely to index that and to show it.

SPEAKER_01

Are marketers nervous that they could spend a lot of time encouraging their team members to go out there on LinkedIn and then they leave and take their wonderful following and all their belief in them to another business? Is there a way around that?

SPEAKER_02

Word Jane, yes. Yeah, we do get that. It is a really fair challenge. But I think ultimately there is the payoff that if you are sort of investing in that person while they're with you, building up their profile um and making it work hard for you, then that is doing a really good job of supporting the company page. It will drive um organic followers to the page, it will drive visibility of your content. And I almost think you have to play with the cards that you're dealt. And LinkedIn is absolutely playing the cards that personal profiles are the key to achieving that cut-through. Um, yes, people may well leave, but I sort of feel like that's collateral damage that you almost have to accept rather than get left behind.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's a very fair response. And what are your top tips for building your personal profile on LinkedIn? Is it bold statement? Return, return, return. Opinions underneath.

SPEAKER_02

I think, I mean, LinkedIn, well, for a start, make sure your profile has a real industry-led lens. And what I mean by that is it's not your online CV anymore. I think that's how we all started when we first uploaded our LinkedIn profiles. What we tend to do is audit profiles and make sure that actually they're speaking the customer's language and that they're not talking about amazing sales growth, for example, when what we want to talk about is this is how we're supporting our customers and this is my technical know-how. So it's really important to prioritize your visitors, your audience as a sort of LinkedIn member and not focus on yourself and be too insular. And it's really about growing that sort of technical know-how and insight and proving to LinkedIn that you are driven by and able to produce answers on questions that people are um are asking. Um, LinkedIn will recognise when someone is consistently posting on a topic and showing that they have an understanding, have some knowledge in a niche area. And LinkedIn will take that, it's it's all part of their recent algorithm changes, and make sure that person is shown more and more in the feeds. They're given more sort of validity, more credibility. Um, so really it's about making sure that every single post you put out there has real purpose.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, perfect. Well, this is at risk of becoming a very, very LinkedIn focused product. No, it's my questions, it's completely my questions. I've grilled you on, I've grilled you on LinkedIn. So, away from LinkedIn, what's been the biggest surprise to you in how organic social has changed over the last 12 to 24 months?

SPEAKER_02

I would say that a few years ago, all we talked about was we will get people onto your website. It is all about click-through. And now all the algorithms, I would argue, have changed to really focus on engagement and to really sort of prioritize and power up the number of times that posts are being saved, the number of shares. And that was an update to Instagram recently and um, dare I say LinkedIn, sorry, I know we talked a lot about it. But um, what we're tending to find is that, yeah, metrics are now being characterised by reaction and response, but not a response that's directly correlated with I will now make a purchase. It's much more about sort of growing that relationship with the end user with the view that they will go on to build that um that bond with the brand and eventually purchase from them.

SPEAKER_00

I guess that's also it's it's almost like the journey that you've had to take, I guess, like key stakeholders on, as well as obviously like the people who work with the brands on social media. It's like I think the understanding of how social media works and the role of organic in particular, has it's almost like everyone's been taken on that journey where it's like we're not there to obviously, like you say, the end goal is that we convert them into a customer of some kind, but ultimately the the role of organic is that kind of taking them on that journey, building that community, getting them to invest in some way kind of emotionally with the brand, so that when they come to make a purchase decision, whichever kind whether it's consumer B2B, whether it's product or service, they think of that brand and that brand's top of mind. That's ultimately our role. And I think that it's changed because everyone is understanding that's the role of organic social, and that we're not now being asked, well, how many sales have you got? It's like, okay, well, that's not obviously that's what we want to do, but a lot of what we do with organic social I say is that shareability of the content getting in front of the right audiences and proving that organic can be that kind of engine of community building to have more and more people having that brand on top of mind.

SPEAKER_01

I think a lot of brands on organic social sort of almost forget that people that follow them have already purchased from them. That's why that's why you're going to follow somebody, really. So it's it's often I think when it goes wrong, is it's used as a sales tool rather than kind of saying, Look, we know you're an onboard customer, and yeah, we'll we'll we'll we'll upsell to you every so often. But this is about talking to you, thanking you, rewarding you, giving you insights because you are a member of our community.

SPEAKER_02

For me, it's resonance, not response. It's not assuming that we have the right to have you as a as a customer, it's about building that rapport and that's a lot of ours, isn't it? Resonance, response, rapport. Yeah. Um, and I think you're right, Jane. I think people jump to I was about to say it's retention, isn't it? Yeah, sorry, yeah. Sorry, anyway. Um I think we jumped to the assumption that we must get people to the bottom of that sales funnel, we must convert. But actually, Audi aren't looking to convert when they're taking on MS in a lawsuit, they're just looking to have some fun, build brand personality, make themselves memorable. And I think that's at the core of social. Um, and that's what brands can really easily forget.

SPEAKER_01

And how can paid and organic work most effectively together?

SPEAKER_02

I would say you want to outline a campaign and make sure that it's like what Nat was saying earlier about synergy. There is no point in having sort of two separate teams cultivating two separate um responses to a brief. It's absolutely about this is the sort of the overarching concept, and this is how we'll tackle it from an organic point of view. This is how we'll look at it from paid. And the overarching messaging might be sort of all geared towards the same thing, but the two different channels are doing two different jobs ultimately. You know, organic might be sort of warming people up. It might be, from a B2B perspective, longer form content, explainer videos, whereas the ads they can stand to be a little bit more commercial and they can come in and after all that lovely warming up and pushing through the sales funnel, can then try and make that conversion. But I think fundamentally it's about speaking the same language because if a customer sees something organically and then sees completely different language on an ad, it just puts people off. Like it comes back to um that you know that authenticity where we were talking about earlier that if they see two different styles of copy or just styles of talking to the end user, they'll just be like no and switch off.

SPEAKER_01

And I think they have got different roles, but even your paid contributions. Content needs to be effective, it needs to sit organically as natively as possible on the social needs anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think the days of just putting out your corporate ad or your brand ad on social are fortunately behind us for most brands anyway.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and don't get me wrong, you know, paid very much sits in the awareness space too, 100%. I think you can get some amazing visibility with paid, sort of video views and reach is a great way to reach people beyond the scope of your current page. Um so yeah, I'm not suggesting paid's purely for the bottom of the funnel, but I think it's just making real careful judgments about where each post, each ad sits when you're looking at that sales funnel.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think to your point as well, Jane, about the it sitting natively and organically, even if it's pay content as well. I think a lot of what we try to do, like you say, Alex, with the video content and that kind of more awareness phase of ads, and to be honest, even video content that we use for more conversion ads is having that social first content approach. So making sure that the content is shot on iPhones, Androids, for example, um, not having like organic social content that is just like iPhone shot and really native to the platform, and then having paid content that's really high production value because ultimately those you could be scrolling a feed and those posts are going to appear one after another, and it's going to be very it's very jarring now to see something that's really heavily designed and kind of doesn't fit into the feed, particularly when you're scrolling channels like TikTok, when you're on Instagram reels, you can really easily tell that it's an ad. Obviously, that's what we're trying to almost avoid now. You want it to be native to the platform when it's an ad, too.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think testament to that is when I'm scrolling through my Facebook and I'm like, oh, I didn't realise I followed you. And then I thought, oh, I've been tricked. I'm a digital marketer, and I I sort of thought I was following um this brand because it just sat so neatly in my feed, and like you say, it was really native. And I think that that is really important across all channels.

SPEAKER_01

So back to organic social, I think one of the biggest challenges facing brands today is the sheer number of platforms they have to provide content for, and the sheer number of formats within those platforms as well. And I, you know, going back over three years ago, we would say to brands, don't repost content. But I think there's a real need now for brands to sweat their assets and maximise that return. What's the advice that you would give to brands and how they can sweat those assets without just looking like they're just repeating the same content left right and center?

SPEAKER_00

I th I think particularly on say reels and TikTok and that and reels also when comes to like Facebook Reels and Instagram as well, YouTube Shorts, any kind of that vertical video formats I guess can we do repurpose those assets? It might be that we change the copy, but a lot of the time it is applicable to multiple platforms, and there's no point, like you say, Jen, because we need we know we need to, it's a volume game as well as kind of like a quality game. We need to actually get that content out, and there's no harm in actually getting that out onto other platforms. What I also would say is what we normally advise clients is almost like one concept can you also equal multiple pieces of content. So while you might shoot a video, could that also be a text-only post you put out on Facebook? Could it be a video that you then turn into a carousel later down the line as well, particularly if static content works well for you? I think it's also then looking at how you can not just maximise an asset, like a video asset, for example, but actually maximising a concept itself too.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that that is the same um in the trade space as well. So a good example we've got coming up is we're doing a um sort of Instagram-led shoot that is a bit more sort of POV day in the live takeover. And we will get stills that we'll then put into a LinkedIn PDF carousel because that's the format that performs most strongly on that platform. So it's also playing to the strengths of the platforms and what they tell you they want to see more of. Um, and yeah, for Instagram, that is reels, that's video, and video absolutely has a place on LinkedIn, but we also know that that dwell time, that sort of swiping through, is also really important. So it's about just thinking a bit laterally about how you can, like you say, take that one concept and and break it down multiple ways.

SPEAKER_01

What mistake do you see brands making most frequently with organic social?

SPEAKER_00

Making content for the brand and not the audience. I think I think we're all guilty of falling to it sometimes because you are creating content and you're invested in the brand that you're working for, particularly if you work brand side as well. It's it's all you do and kind of all you absorb. And I think sometimes you'd fall in a lot of brands will fall into the trap of creating content that appeals to the people at the brand when actually they might not be the consumer of the products themselves or the consumer of the service, it might not be for them. So you kind of have to make sure that you're viewing content and all organic outputs with that kind of audience in mind, because ultimately that's who the content is for. It's not for you as a as an individual, it's not for the brand in particular. Obviously, we need to make sure we're getting out the key brand messaging and positioning the brand in the best way, but it the content needs to be for the audience.

SPEAKER_02

I totally agree. And I think for me, there's a real triumvirate of make sure it's absolutely for the brand. Like let's use brand messaging, tone of voice, um key sort of product criteria, you know, all of that good stuff. But also, it's the second is the audience, like you say. What do they want to see? What are their pain points, drivers, like what's motivating them to make a purchase? And also it's it's the social channels as well. We have to make sure that we're taking all three of those things into account. And if we don't have that balance, then we risk either being too insular or either too sort of audience focused and losing the essence of the brand, or just leaning too hard into the platforms. And I don't know, you know, if it was on TikTok just being too trend driven when actually that doesn't really work for your brand and and how they operate. So whenever I do sort of big pieces of strategy work, that is sort of my canvas that I start from. I'm like, let's look at these three areas and make sure that we're hitting the mark on all three before we do anything else.

SPEAKER_01

I think you raised an interesting point there. Let's take TikTok and not be too trend-led. I feel I've seen a real shift in TikTok and being trend-led to content-led now. Would you agree with that? There's there's less less lip syncing going on than there was a year or two ago. I enjoy lip sync. I do like a lip.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, now again, but I I think you've got a good point there that I think we got to a point where, again, this comes back to what we said about at the start, where you've got obviously got lots of content creators, lots of brands, lots of bigger influences, all vine for your attention on a platform like TikTok. And then a trend starts and everyone's lip syncing the same thing, and everything it's that sea of sameness that we talked to a lot of our clients about, where everything was just repeated and it's the same, and there wasn't a lot of brands in particular fall into the trap of going, oh, we'll just do this trend because everyone's talking about it, so we must do it. When actually the best content and the content that we create now, we've happened for a long time for the brands that we work with now, is ever what we term evergreen content. So content that taps into those relatable moments, the pain points for the audience to provide kind of position in the brand as a solution in that relatable way. Yeah. But content that you know you can create today but still posts in six months' time. Yeah. And I think that approach also then allows you to be more reactive. I always say be as planned as you can, so that you have this room and the space to be reactive. You've got all that content covered, you've got those moments that we know that we need to tap into for the audience, but also then when something happens like the Kit Kat Heist, you can you've got the time then to actually jump on that and be reactive in a way that then feels natural and authentic rather than a feat just full of lip synks.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I agree. I think it's really found its feat TikTok in the last couple of years, in terms of not just being singing and dancing and actually being a platform that many brands, and including those in the B2B space, can actually engage with and and you know have some real good successful results on.

SPEAKER_01

And what would be your top tip to brands looking to make their mark or to grow their TikTok presence?

SPEAKER_00

I would say I say it comes back to audience again. It's again having the audience data and insight in mind. I think one probably one element that a lot of brands kind of skip over is obviously understanding the demographics of like their this age to this age, their kind of key interest to X, Y, and Z, but actually don't understand what are they doing outside of consuming your product. So if you're you know like a leisure business, if if they're going to your centre, what are they doing outside of that? We know that they go and invest in your product, but what are they actually, what are they watching on TV, what films are they going to see in the cinema? Are they going to the cinema? And actually having a really, really understanding of your audience, so you know what type of content to create for them. I think the more brands understand their audience, the more unique content they can create to kind of tap into those more, I guess, niche relatable moments as well. And I think that's again the shift from TikTok being a trend led platform to being a platform where it's a more evergreen content platform, but also then knowing that you're competing with a lot of brands talking about the same things, and then how do you find the elements that other brands actually aren't talking about? And it is by understanding more about what that audience wants, just in so much detail in as much detail as possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So here's a question that I know all marketers grapple with. If you're gonna do organic social, you've got to invest significantly in it to make it worth your while. How do you prove the return on that investment in organic social?

SPEAKER_02

I it's a tricky one. I think it is a really tricky one because I it comes back to what I was saying earlier about the expectation is really quite high of what social can deliver, when actually often organic social in particular is more a vehicle to get person from thinking, I've never heard of this brand, to taking them on that journey to eventually purchasing from that brand. So, yeah, absolutely, that is a really difficult thing to actually measure. Um, what we do find though is like when we introduce new concepts or new ways of working, um, we will take a look at the stats before and after. So we often find that you know, B2B brands can feel a little bit uncomfortable. We're doing something that might be considered a bit bolder, a bit braver in the social media space, be that a slightly quirkier video shoot that's not in their comfort zone and sort of maybe product-centric. And we've had some really great case studies where we've looked at, okay, this is what's happened to your impressions, um, this is what's happened to your engagement rate when we shift the dial on your strategy. Um, and I think it's just it's about the education piece and just making sure they're not saying, but where are my leads? And it's like we never expected leads from making this shift. Um, what we expected is to really enhance your visibility and boost um overall engagement, for example, and that's what we've done.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think tracking those results over time as well, and also from a consumer's perspective as well. I think the brands that we work with that do this really well, kind of like you say, have it's the educational piece, they have the understanding of the role of organic social, but they also have kind of these wider pieces of work that they do themselves where they're tracking kind of like overall sentiment there. Yeah. They're doing kind of like brand tracking against competitors. It's obviously not just looking at organic but looking at the wider picture. Um, and I think sometimes then we can overlay the organic activity, campaign activity, and kind of if we see spikes, then we can use that and work with them to kind of prove a use case for that and to show that actually organic has helped with with that uplift. We can also, I guess, when we've had sort of like I guess like bigger viral hits on TikTok, I'm thinking for some of our hospitality brands, we've been able to then work with the teams to actually match that with um uplifts in sales as well. And because they can then see, well, actually, we didn't do any anything else. We didn't like we can obviously see what paid delivers anywhere, but we haven't invested loads in PR activity, we have loads of other stuff going on. We can kind of then attribute it to organic, but I do think it has to have that buy-in from the teams that you're working with to understand organic in the first place and they'll want to work with you in the best way to sort of prove um the use cases for organic and where it can really, really work. And we have seen that, which is good as well.

SPEAKER_02

And you are right, organic can absolutely correlate with um moving the doll sales-wise and then sort of you know, footfall, for example. Um, so it's not to say it can't do that, it's just I would suggest that your sort of everyday organic social content is really centred on building the relationship, building the personality. Um, and so you know, I would see anything sort of sales-led as a real sort of bonus.

SPEAKER_01

If you had to make a really bold prediction and say which platform you think will be most important for marketers in 2027, I'm skipping ahead. What do you think that will be?

SPEAKER_00

You know, the answer for me. I can't I can't look past from a consumer's perspective, I can't look past TikTok. Like I said earlier, um, I've not yet found found a consumer brand that that can't use TikTok or shouldn't use TikTok. Um, I also think that just the power of it as a platform, it kind of blows everything else out of the water. Um LinkedIn, I would also say is is probably my second one. Yeah um, not just from a B2B perspective, but I just think from an overall perspective on um everything that it's done recently with the algorithm updates and kind of the yeah, the content, the way it's ranking content. Now it's almost kind of similar in a way to TikTok where it's really, really immediate in terms of those changes. I think actually what LinkedIn is doing at the moment is kind of, I'd say, far beyond what Meta are concentrating on, and actually investing into the platform to make it better for the users. And I think that's probably the platforms that we're in are gonna do that. I think you look at Threads, for example, yeah, it had that initial investment, but it's not for me personally, and for a lot of the brands we work with, it's not the place to be because it's not had that continuous investment. Um, it's had obviously the feature updates, but I just don't think it's the platform that's gonna take off. I think for me, it's TikTok and also LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, and I think you probably know what my answer is going to be, Jane, but absolutely I'm gonna hazard a guess that it might be LinkedIn. It is LinkedIn, um, but for multiple reasons, to be honest. I think um it's everything that Nat has just been saying, but also LinkedIn has always had much higher sort of trust rankings than any of the other social channels, and that is, you know, that is important for businesses to feel secure um in their social platform. But also, I think you know, LinkedIn now um is really being cited by LLMs um to a much greater extent than previously. Um, before it was more Reddit, more Wikipedia that we saw um ChatGPT and the likes referring to and using um in their searches, but now the likes of LinkedIn articles, newsletters, they're all appearing. So if you know clients, if they're forward thinking, they're looking at their GEO strategy and working out how they can ensure that they're being seen. Um, because obviously AI is only going one way, and that is you know to accelerate. Um and think about the fact that you know LinkedIn is owned by Microsoft, who are also huge investors in open AI. Um, so for me, you've got to sort of track the two together and assume that that investment in AI from LinkedIn will only grow and grow, and therefore that's where brands should be, moving with it. So you brought up AI. Sorry. Is there a role for AI in organic social? And where can it go wrong? Okay, so I think there absolutely has to be a role for AI in organic social because that is quite simply the way that AI and the social platforms are taking us, and we can only be swept up um in the wave that is um the internet and where it's moving. So I think it's foolish to ignore the fact that AI is present um and has an impact on the social media channels, and you know, LinkedIn is now putting more investment and thought into how businesses should um translate this sort of AI-led approach onto that platform. Um and they're saying, you know, be really clear with the language you're using, make it AI friendly. Um, and you know, we didn't have that a year ago.

SPEAKER_01

And in consumer organic, social AI.

SPEAKER_00

What you've touched on quite well, Alex, is almost like the the platform integrations and how the platform is almost like asking us to use AI. I think the other side of it, and particularly what we come up against and a lot of the questions that we might get with people we work with, and also indeed from audiences as well, is the I guess the use of AI within content creation and how if we're using AI-generated images and obviously using AI to generate post copy and things like that, I think what we do is ensure that it's that people-first content always. We know fundamentally that AI can't at the moment replicate human humans as well as humans can do. I don't think it ever will. I really hope it will. I don't think it will. I think what we're seeing at the moment is audiences are now getting really smart in terms of identifying content if a brand uses an AI-genated image. They're calling it out in a negative way. I think the understanding is that we know AI is integrated within to social media platforms, whether we like it or not. But I think we almost need to have that control over what we use from an content creation perspective in AI. I don't think we should be using it to a really large extent. I think we should be leaning on what the platform integrations have. Obviously, from a paid perspective, obviously know this about organic, but we know that AI has been integrated into ads for a long time now. It's in a similar way that the algorithm uses that kind of technology to serve as content. But I think from uh a standpoint of brands and content creators, we need to make sure we're being responsible with our use of AI and kind of working with the platform to make sure we're creating the content in the best way, but not just using AI to be lazy and create all the content for us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I think it's also important to remember that you know, platforms like X recently introduced a bit of a warning button before people share content to say if it thinks it's been generated by AI. And I think we as digital marketers, like you say, we have a real responsibility to make sure that the content is it has integrity. I think that's what's sort of missing from the puzzle, really. So I think it goes back to um what we've said on a previous podcast about the craft of what we do, the artist storytelling, and the notion that actually AI can only take that so far, and that's the hill I'll die on.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I agree. Uh yeah, I think I think if you see content, so it's an ad where the person selling you the product is clearly an AI avatar.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

It doesn't just disappoint me, it makes me get actually angry.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, yeah. And I really hope that you know there are more um that there's more legislation that comes into play around this stuff because I feel like we've been thrown into a brand new world and regulators haven't caught up, and it's all very well for you know the social platforms to say you need to label your content, but we're seeing people label it in a very disingenuous way that's very hidden.

SPEAKER_01

And we we know who we're talking about. We do, we won't say anything in case we're hit with a lawsuit, but um, we do know who we're talking about. So that's kind of AI. What uh excites you most about where organic social is headed over the next six or twelve months?

SPEAKER_00

I think the unpredictability of it, like if we did sit here five years ago, I think we'd be having a different conversation. Yeah, but I think the unpredictability of it is obviously exciting because it makes it an industry that's fun to work in. It hasn't makes every day different. It does, it does. Um, but I think yeah, I think the unpredictability of it, I think what we've talked about a lot today is that people understand social media and particularly the role of organic social a lot more now and the the importance of it actually. And I think I started working in social 10 years ago, and I think when I first was saying, you know, oh, you know, when you say to people, oh, what do you do? It's like, oh, work in social media, it's like, oh, you just like post on Facebook then. I think that was the perception of it now, of it then, but the perception now is that it's it's organic social, it's one of the key drivers of marketing activity and of brand visibility and brand activity. And I think people now see the importance of it, which I think obviously for for for us is great, but I think for the industry as a whole, it's really positive as well. So I think it's an exciting industry to work, and I think that's what, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think TikTok's made your job a whole lot more exciting. Because it's not just sit behind your desk and animate a static image, is it? It's getting out into pubs. It's getting out in a bowling alleys or whatever it might be. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think there's there's so much to the role of an organic social media manager now where yes, you do have that desk-based time where you can like you're creating memes and you're creating that text-based content that works really well. But equally, the next day you might be going out into a pub or a bowling alley, like you say, um, into a depot sometimes, and you're creating content with people and you're actually meeting people and engaging with them. And again, that's where that human content works really well and completely that it's made the role more fun, definitely, with it being so open-ended in that way.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I totally agree. I feel like if you'd have said to me five years ago, you'll be out filming ASMR content in a factory, I'd say no, no, no. You'd say, What? What's ASMR? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, the thing that excites me the most is the idea that we can take clients on this journey with us and we can sort of help them step into that bolder place where they are sort of executing ideas that would have been anathema to them, like even six months ago. Um, and I think it's really important that, you know, we're typically seeing it goes back to what you said at the start, Nat, around um that competition on the feeds, it comes back to standout. If you want to be a brand that stands out, then you have to take a few risks with your content. And that absolutely goes for B2B. And I feel like B2B does have this reputation of somewhat lacking in create creativity, spontaneity, and the ability to sort of be a bit more playful. Our top-performing posts across the board for our clients are those that are injected with personality and life and dynamism, and not those that are sort of really centred around commercial messaging. And I love that. And I know that Alex from five years ago would just be, you know, gleeful at the idea that this is what we get to do now and have some real fun and show that B2B can be this world of imagination.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so on a final note, you can't name any of your R clients and you can't say curries. Okay. What's the one brand that you think is nailing social that marketers should go and have a look at for inspiration?

SPEAKER_02

A brand that I wax lyrical about is Get Baked. Get Baked is a bakery that really leans into the notion of just being so honest and so transparent with his customers that any Of a brand that tried it would likely get in trouble unless it's the likes of Aldi and Ryanette, who you know that is their MO. And it's interesting that he's really centered the brand around himself and his point of view. And he's literally just selling cakes and making cakes and putting them out there. But his tone of voice is almost to the point of being brash sometimes. He's that transparent, it's honestly off the channel off the scale. And I think that works really hard for him because what you see is staggering engagement and interaction. And the minute he drops a, oh, we've got this cake on sale, seconds later it will have disappeared from stock because he's just built this community, it's almost cult-like, that just follows what he's doing, buys into it, loves that he sends screenshots of unreasonable customers and gives his sort of forthright opinion on why actually they're wrong and they're doing this to a small business. And I think that really is all about people just love trust, personality, building rapport. And to me, that has it in spades. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00

And that the first one that came to my mind, do you all like this because it's a LinkedIn one is Surreal, the Serial brand. But I I feel like what they did is they spotted that no one's really like a divisive challenger brand on LinkedIn, realistically. There's a lot of brands out there, kind of like I guess like Monzo is one of the first ones to think of where they're using LinkedIn in a more human, kind of like personality-driven way than other brands that are that might be on there. But I think what Surreal did was actually took such uh interesting stance, and they just went, Yeah, we're just gonna create, I guess, like unhinged is probably the term that we use most when we talk about them as a brand, unhinged content that really stands out on the feed but actually drives the the message in like a really humorous way. And I think what they did was like say they they found that as a bit of a, I guess, a gap in the LinkedIn market. We're gonna own that and we're also gonna take it to the extreme. And I think every time you go on LinkedIn, you'll start you'll see their posts and they'll stand out. People share them with each other because it is that shareable content that people want to see, and it is that divisiveness.

SPEAKER_01

I think they're a great example of a brand that understands how to link organic and paid effectively as well. I think they've really got that strategy bang on. Well, on that note, from Baker is in Leeds to uh disruptive serial brands. Thank you both very much for your time today. Thank you.