What's Got the World Talking?

Trade Media: How is it Evolving?

• WPR • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode of What’s Got the World Talking we’re taking a deep dive into part of the media ecosystem that doesn’t always get the spotlight it deserves: trade media.

As audiences fragment and AI reshapes how information is discovered and trusted, how is trade journalism evolving? What do journalists need from brands when resources are stretched and expectations are higher? And why does influence within trade titles matter more than ever for credibility, reputation and long‑term growth?

Jane is joined by B2B director Tom Leatherbarrow and associate director Rob Jones to discuss how trade media is evolving and what brands need to understand if they want to build authority, shape industry narratives and be taken seriously by the people who matter most.

If you're fascinated by the topics that get the marketing world talking, make sure you don't miss an episode of What's Got the World Talking?

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SPEAKER_01

Trust, credibility, authority, that's the currency that media outlets in the trade space they trade on.

SPEAKER_02

I think the biggest challenge that BTB marketers have at the moment is proving that ROI.

SPEAKER_00

Gone to days of trade magazine teams being six, twelve people strong. It's one or two now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

I feel quite strongly that in the current climate, this sort of trust debate and the trust challenge that we face, it's probably in a sense increased the value that we place on the trade media.

SPEAKER_02

Do people need this information as part of their professional lives?

SPEAKER_01

Those titles we consider to be kind of top tier. They're the ones that amplify their content across social channels. They're the ones that make their content easy to find and easy to stop us in our tracks when we're sat on the sofa watching the football of an evening. You know, we'll still read, we'll still consume work-based content in those times as well.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to What's Got the World Talking, the podcast that delves into what's the minds of the marketing, PR, and social media world? In this episode, we're taking a deep dive into part of the media ecosystem that doesn't always get the spotlight it deserves: trade media. As newsrooms consolidate, audiences fragment, and AI reshapes how information is discovered and trusted, how is trade journalism evolving? What do journalists need from brands when resources are stretched and expectations are higher? And why does influence within trade titles matter more than ever for credibility, reputation, and long-term growth? I'm joined by B2B Director Tom Leatherbarrow and Associate Director Rob Jones to discuss how trade media is changing, what makes a compelling story for specialist audiences today, and how to combat the you would say that wouldn't you response. Here's what brands should understand if they want to build authority, shape industry narratives, and be taken seriously by the people who matter most. So welcome. Do you want to start by introducing yourself?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm Rob Jones, Associate Director at WPL.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm Tom Leatherbarrow, and I'm a director at WPR.

SPEAKER_00

And you both work very much in our B2B team.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we are here today to talk all things trade media. I'm sure 99.9% of people know what trade media is, but do you want to start by just explaining what the term means, what that includes?

SPEAKER_01

I suppose for us, really, the term trade media, it's it's the media that we consume in our professional lives rather than our personal lives. Um so that could be, you know, that could be magazines, that could be online publications. Um, you know, it's a it's a media vehicle that that serves us in that professional environment.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's very beautifully put. Can you expand on that, Tom?

SPEAKER_02

I I have nothing else to say, but that was very good.

SPEAKER_00

When we seemed the podcast, we'll hear from you a little bit. I suppose a question that we were asked recently, which is one of the reasons for kind of recording this podcast today, is do people still read the trade media? We were asked that in a in a meeting, weren't we?

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I m my answer would be is that we are consuming media in a different way. Um the example I always use is I don't go, I don't read PR Week in terms of going on to uh or picking up a physical magazine, but I am alerted to stories in PR Week and or podcasts that PR Week are doing, and I consume those. So I think they are uh that the trade media is relevant, but it has changed significantly over the last 10-15 years.

SPEAKER_00

As has all media, really. It's no different to consumer media, it's had to diversify as the way we consume our news changes.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I think as well, you know, it's quite a broad term, isn't it? The trade media. I think we see across our client base we've got we're you know, we're targeting people who are desk-based, we're target targeting people who are van-based, they might be in the trades, and you know, they're they don't do their their sort of um day-to-day duties from behind a desk. So I think when we look at the trade media and and do people still read it, I think the answer is yes, but potentially not as a printed hard copy magazine that comes through the letterbox sort of once a month.

SPEAKER_00

I suppose the question, if I could rewind time a better phrase is do people still consume it? Yes, it might not necessarily be reading it in the sense we used to.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. I think that's the other thing. The consumption patterns, as we understand it as well, happen quite differently. So you might find that people are picking up, uh Tom alluded to this a second ago, individual stories from a trade publication without necessarily kind of consuming that that publication in its entirety.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, completely so I think you use PR Week as an example. I might not log on to PR Week's website every day, but if I see something on LinkedIn, I think all that sounds a bit of juicy gossip or a really interesting piece of insight. I will click on that link on LinkedIn and go and have a read.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly that.

SPEAKER_00

So I think we've probably sized have covered this already, but let's set the scene. What are the biggest structural changes you've seen in trade media over recent years?

SPEAKER_02

I would, for me, it's the divergence. Um, I think, I think there are some publications that have become very digitized, um, have embraced new media channels. Um there are others that haven't perhaps gone on that journey, and it's created um a real a real there are tier one pub publications and there are tier two and two and three. The best publications have have are finding new ways to reach an audience.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01

I think, yeah, I think structurally, I mean, the landscape as a whole has changed. We've seen, you know, titles have fallen by the wayside, unfortunately. Um ultimately we're dealing with, like with all of publishing, we're dealing with we're working in a commercial environment. I think we've seen a number of titles fall by the wayside, others that have consolidated, so they might have been print before, now they're digital only. Um, but I think what you know that that competitive environment has really made media outlets kind of consider what they need to do to land with their intended readership, their intended audience. I think that's been for the for the good of the sectors that we work in.

SPEAKER_00

I suppose it's been survival of the fittest, really, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, yeah. And obviously, you know, it's there's an ad revenue kind of game at play here. You know, all of these titles are are ultimately they are commercial organizations, they are um, they can only run successfully if they're if they're backed by advertisers. And obviously, we work with brands who advertise as well as um look to generate media coverage, editorial, and so on. I think those that are really thriving are able to demonstrate that return to the brands that they serve. Uh, it could be you know that they've got really effective channels for driving traffic to website, it could be that they have databases we can tap into, segments of those databases for you know particular stories or particular um product announcements or whatever. So, yeah, absolutely a survival of fittest is certainly what we've seen over the last few years.

SPEAKER_00

And can you name some trade titles that you think are thriving or or have adopted this new model particularly well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm I'm ever since day one of working at WPR, I've always worked in the sort of paper. Quite a long time ago, hasn't it? We won't say exactly how many years, but no. Um I've always worked with brands in the sort of heating and plumbing industry, and I think the work that Installer has done in that space has been really, really strong. I think they were the first to sort of forgo their print edition, their print title, and went completely digital. And we've seen you know the content that they they publish across numerous channels, social, their website, um, the volume of traffic they get to that website has been really strong as a result of that. And now we're starting to see others sort of follow that that route to market. I think it's an acknowledgement of the the industry and that readership as well. I mentioned it before, but ultimately their readerships, heating and hot water, you know, heating engineers, plumbers, um are they sat behind a desk? Do they consume print? Probably not quite in the same way we see other uh sector professionals do it. So yeah, I think a lot of our admiration for the them being the first to sort of really commit to that digital first mechanism.

SPEAKER_00

And Tom, do you have any uh favourites or inspiration to share?

SPEAKER_02

Of the of the of the sectors we work in, I would I would highlight the likes of Utility Week, um, which is very much aimed at sort of C-suite, which is which is one of the sort of the key key audiences we want to hit. Um I would I would and I would point to uh publications like The Man Manufacturer as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. All strong names I remember from when I first started out in PR and worked in in B2B much more. So we understand now that trade media has changed, uh, the way content is consumed has been changed. Has it had any impact on the type of stories journalists are more or less likely to cover and the kind of stories they're looking for brands to provide or work with them on?

SPEAKER_02

I I I think we're in a situation now where they are looking for experts, they're looking for people who can add value to their publication, for people um who can um um solve the problems that their readership are encountering, be that in the manufacturing sector or uh pharmaceuticals or whatever, whatever sector you're in. It's up to the it's up to the PRs, I think, to to find those stories. Um the days of the of the journalistic researcher of as gone. Um we we are now the the the journalist re researcher. We have to go out, find the story, insert the key messages from a client into that story, and then sell it into um the journalist or editor.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think the um the big difference between how we consume media in our sort of personal lives and professional, I think often we talk about you are looking to overcome a particular challenge within your professional, professional life, um, and being able to kind of pair our clients up with those challenges and offer something that's proprietary, unique. That could be an opinion, that could be the you know, promotion of a particular tool that helps people to overcome a particular issue or challenge. I think you know it's our job to ask our clients the right questions. I think be plugged into these issues that are taking place across the sectors we operate in and understanding right which questions can we ask our client to eke out those insights, that advice, um, that expertise that can then really benefit the journalist and in turn the readership of that media as well.

SPEAKER_00

And what makes Dream Client when it comes to delivering great coverage across the trade the trade media? What can a client do to accelerate that that those levels of coverage?

SPEAKER_01

Have an opinion, I think, is a big one. Yeah. Not an opinion for an opinion's sake, but I think an opinion based on true insight, proximity to their customer base, a real understanding of what it is that makes their customer tick. I think that honesty and transparency with us as well, you know, ultimately we're here in a way to act as a filter to be able to say, right, okay, you you have that insight, you know, you're speaking to customers about this topic. This is what we think we can eke out of that discussion, that debate, that dialogue to really make the coverage sing and the coverage land in the right way that reflects well on the brand as well.

SPEAKER_00

And Tom?

SPEAKER_02

I think that I think I think what Rob said, it's it's being brave enough to have an opinion, yeah. Uh, and and to be willing to share that opinion and to be good and to put themselves out there as an expert. The uh really good PR uh solves a problem, and you you have to identify the problem, use the expert to to to provide the solution, and and and and put the key messages that the client wants in there into the into the argument, but not lead with with those messages.

SPEAKER_00

It's interesting that you said the client needs to be brave and have an opinion. Do you always have to be brave to have an opinion? Or can marketers sit is there is there a middle ground?

SPEAKER_02

I think there are degrees of bravery. Um I don't think we're asking anybody to die on a hill, but to just have have an have an opinion that provides insight and expertise.

SPEAKER_00

Sounds perfect. And how is the relationship between trade journalists and PRs and marketing teams changed over the years? If indeed it has changed?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think the relationship has become more of a more of a symbiotic relationship. We need we need each other. Uh they the the the editorial teams have have become smaller, um, but they've still got not only uh if it's if it's still a printed print magazine to fill, they've now got a website to fill. They need somebody in the form of PR people who can who can help them identify a story, write a story, uh, understand the markets that um that their readership is is operating in. So it's become a relationship which is, I would say, closer.

SPEAKER_01

I think just to add to that, I think there is there is sort of there is risk that has been brought about with kind of innovation, probably within our sector actually, in terms of the tools that are available to distribute content to media contacts, for instance. I think there's a danger that if we rely too much on those tools, that that importance of relationships, the kind of media, the relations part of media relations, does get eroded away. So certainly when we're speaking to our clients, we're very keen to make sure that we invest time speaking to key media contacts in particular. And and also I think the the hallmark of a good relationship is when we get journalists coming to us and asking us questions or asking us for contributions to content they might be working on. I uh, you know, that's almost the holy grail when we're working with um with media in certain sectors. So I think having that two-way relationship, like Tom says, is really important. I think we need to make sure that journalists see us as an expert in the sector, an expert in our client's business, and someone that they can bounce ideas off just as much as we can, we can do that the other way around as well.

SPEAKER_00

So, as PRs, we are often the intermediary between the journalist and the client. But our client, the marketing teams are often the intermediary between us and their wider business. And we'll come to them an opportunity, they've got to go and find a spokesperson. What advice would you give to marketing teams who need to find the right spokespeople to represent their company and trade titles?

SPEAKER_02

There is a sweet spot between what but between where the editor is, between where the client is, and between where the market is. And right in the middle is the sweet spot that we have to try and hit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it's all about finding that person within the business that has that real intimate understanding of the customer challenges, the customer opportunities. Ultimately, that's that's the target audience, that's who we're trying to engage through the media. So that that sort of understanding of the market and the people within that market is absolutely key.

SPEAKER_00

I know this is a really broad question. It will vary enormously from title to title, but what generally makes a standout news story for Trade Press?

SPEAKER_01

I often think the the standout news stories are those that are based on something proprietary that we can offer or the brand the brand can offer that no other business can. Um we've certainly seen success with stories going into various sectors based around things like um spikes in sales of a particular product category based around changes to legislation, for example. We've seen even things like Google search data, um keyword insights and the like. We've been able to use that to generate stories. And I think the key is that data helps to educate the media on a a prevailing issue or a prevailing area of interest that they can then they can then see scope for a new story to to spin off the off the back of. Obviously, we've we've touched on this already, I think, but opinion. I think it's not just about that data, that insight, it's about offering a view. You know, how can this particular audience take this insight forward and apply it to their day-to-day duties in the you know the professional environment that they they operate in?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, very true. There can be a perception, I'm sure wrongly so, that trade media can be quite dry, quite evidence-based. Is there room for creativity or human interest stories in the trade press, as we know it?

SPEAKER_02

Very much so. Um I think I think the need for creativity in BTB is growing. I think um the human interest side, I think the the analogy I always use is that uh we work for one of the major machine tool man manufacturers, and uh their audience is not only concerned with how fast a machine is or how much more productive it can be. They want they they want the insight into what the subcontract manufacturer is doing just just down the road. Uh they want to know about what that what their competitors are doing. Um that's that's where um bringing out the human element um really can make PR work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd agree. I think I again a sector that we know very, very well, that sort of heating and plumbing industry, we're we're we're engaging with people who are very much sole traders a lot of the time. Um so when we're thinking about content that's going to resonate with them, sometimes it's about how can we stop them within their time away from the job, actually. How can a brand have conversation with them, capture their attention, ideally offer them something useful that that kind of appeals to their personal motivations as well as their professional ones. So that yeah, it could be something as simple as a product that helps to speed up installation time so that they get spend more time at home with the family for it, for example. So I think there's a kind of there is absolutely scope for those human interests, human motivated stories to really come through.

SPEAKER_00

I don't want to use the word readership figures because that doesn't really apply anymore because as we know, people consume trade news rather than read trade news. But what's the kind of reach of these of these titles now? Obviously it's going to be fewer than with consumer titles because your audience is niche, but are you talking still reaching into the tens, hundreds of thousands?

SPEAKER_01

It varies quite significantly. I'd say generally we're we're sort of in the tens of thousands now, but there are titles out there that are single figure thousands. And what I'd say to brands who you know might see some of those figures and say, well, okay, that looks small. Is it, you know, is that is that worth our time? Yeah, is that worth our worth our effort? I think ultimately it's all relative to the space that you you occupy. You know, we work in a we've got a few clients now in the sort of pitch care industry. There are only so many professional groundspeople in the country, but that's not to that's not to take away the the importance of there are certain titles out there, you know, one in particular springs to mind a title called Pitch Care. It's it's highly regarded within that market and within that that readership, that audience. Um, so yes, I would say we need to look beyond the numbers and we need to look at how much sort of credibility, trust, I think is a big one, how much trust that that media outlook carries with with the audience we're looking to engage.

SPEAKER_02

And that's true in terms of how we tier the media. We're not just doing it in terms of website hits that that that um a publication gets, we're doing it in terms of domain authority, we're looking at how actively they they promote their own stories because we want the tweets that goes out, or the or the Facebook post or the LinkedIn post that goes out and and and is actively promoting a story. So there are multiple different ways that we're evaluating media um um and into uh and evaluating where we put our effort.

SPEAKER_01

I think one of the really interesting areas for us to that we're starting to look into now more and more is the the impact of AI search and I was about to come onto that, so you beat me to that. It couldn't be a popular thing. An inevitable talking point. Um but I think what's quite what I find really interesting is we're actually seeing some of the more niche specialist titles that slightly contradicts a point that Tom's just made, actually. They they might not have the greatest domain authority, but actually they are being cited within the answers that are appearing in in sort of um LLMs generative.

SPEAKER_00

Because they're obviously a highly credible source and a very niche subject out.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly that, yeah, exactly that. So so we've you know, like Tom says, we've got numerous factors we'll consider when we think about which media outlets we should engage and we should try to reach an audience through. Um but yeah, ultimately it's it's often always relative to relative to the sector and relative to the subject matter as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And to what extent do our club do our clients or should a brand invest in research? They've got, you say proprietary, but you've got unique data that you can take to trade titles. Is that still uh an important factor in driving coverage?

SPEAKER_01

100%. I'll I'll I'll bring the AI topic up again, I think, at this point. I think the we know speaking to journalists, they are they've always been receiving, you know, hundreds of emails a day from PR people trying to put you know, get them to consider stories. And I think increasingly now, given the introduction of AI tools, there's a there's a growing skep skepticism, I think, from our media contacts around well, is you know, is that from a genuine human being? Is that real insight? And I think if we've got proprietary data, it's one of those sort of you know, holy grail. Trust signals to the media and to the readers of that media and to the AI algorithms that this is genuine insight, genuinely reflective of the humans that operate within a certain industry.

SPEAKER_00

So sticking to the subject of AI, because uh you brought it up. What's the general uh rule we have here, or the the tip you give to brands about using AI when pitching and preparing stories or trade titles?

SPEAKER_01

I think we've got to use AI responsibly and carefully and never at the expense of the layer of human sort of intellect that we apply to the work that we do. I think we we mentioned earlier about that importance of asking the right questions of clients and understanding what makes them tick at times. And I think some there are some things that AI will really struggle to replicate. Yes, it can string sentences together, but I think the concern that I have, particularly within the B2B media, is we are often looking at positioning the clients we work with as experts, as thought leaders. Um you can only lead if you have something unique to bring to the table. I think by its very nature, if we outsource content delivery um research, even at times to AI, that there's a danger that that sort of owned insight, that expertise, that unique perspective on a particular issue, it it quickly gets eroded away. And I think at that point we lose our trust in the eyes of the media, and potentially the media lose their trust in the eyes of their readership, their their audience as well. So it's a AI can be a force for good. And I think there are ways that we're looking at using AI, and I know journalists actually are looking at using AI for things like optimizing headlines for stories, for instance. Um, but I would say there is a it can assist, but it should never replace that that human layer that we as PR people kind of bring to the party and the value that we aim to offer, but also the the value that a journalist will aim to offer their audience as well.

SPEAKER_02

The only thing I would add to that uh in terms of AI is that in BTB we're often dealing with highly complex subject areas. Um, for example, five-axis machining or thermally activated building solutions. And we're dealing with individuals who've got, you know, 20, 30, 35 years experience of dealing with these extremely complex issues. And I've seen no evidence um so far in the in the development of AI that it is capable of replicating that that human intelligence, that ability to offer the sort of advice um which which many of the trade publication media uh and audiences are looking for.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. I think the other thing is that a lot of the subject areas our clients sort of are invested in, they're so specialist and so kind of sometimes we're dealing with them as they emerge, and there's there's no information out there on that given topic. So you could never defer that layer of responsibility to AI. I think it's uh, you know, that that human layer, that human insight, opinion, expertise is is irreplaceable in that respect for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Certainly when we've done um a few previous podcasts looking at um the use of AI in consumer media, the feedback I've been getting is if a journalist suspects your release or your pitch is written by AI, it's it's binned. Is that the same as with um with trade media as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. I think yeah, trust, credibility, authority, that's the currency that media outlets in the trade space they trade on in in much the same way that the the consumer-oriented media does as well. And I think any risk that that trust gets breached um through content that might be AI generated, might be you know fabricated in some way. I think there's there's too much risk associated with that for both parties that it's that it's worth taking.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So we've discussed a lot about AI and uh the volume numbers that people that people are reaching, brands are reaching when using trade media. How do you map measure the success of a trade media or a wider B2B campaign?

SPEAKER_01

I think often we are looking at measurements well beyond the coverage itself. Um, I mean, typically we'll be working across multiple channels from from you know the majority of our clients, I would say. So, yes, we'll be running a um PR campaign in terms of looking to generate media coverage um and engagement through engagement reach and awareness through the press, but also be looking at how we can um disseminate that message across other channels too. And I think ultimately we're looking to drive commercial impact for our clients. So ideally, we want inquiries, we want the phones to ring, we want the email inquiries to come in. Um and and it's on us, I suppose, to look at the channels most likely to deliver that, um, which is where we look at things like UTM link tracking um from different campaign sources, um, where referral traffic's coming from. I think one of the misconceptions we see at times is the assumption that because a story contains a link, it'll drive floods of traffic to a to a client's website. Yeah, exactly. It's very, very rare. Um, but again, it is a sign of authority. Um so I think, yeah, really, we're looking to drive that correlation between coverage and commercial impact as well. So we'll work very close with our clients on closely tracking things like website traffic, um interest in certain product categories, uh, branded search. So has the work that we've done prompted an increase in searches for a particular product or for their brand? But ultimately, as I've said before, that that holy grail really we're looking to drive sales if if and where possible.

SPEAKER_00

And how are we tracking the impact of um all of this trade coverage on AI search results?

SPEAKER_01

So it's it's a rapidly developing area at the moment. And I think we're trying to stay as very, very close to this as algorithms change, as the tools that we have access to sort of improve their capabilities as well. What I would say is we are now increasingly tracking mentions and citations within AI search and looking at where that coverage that we land can really impact the answers that the LLMs are serving B2B audiences for uh for any given brand.

SPEAKER_00

And are we noticing there's a distinct difference or way that people use AI search in their business-to-business lives rather than consumer? So, like for example, is Copilot outperforming chat GPT for B2B search phrases?

SPEAKER_01

We're still we're we're still finding it's quite varied. I think the difference in usage patterns. I think one of the things that we'll always do as an initial benchmarking exercise is look at, we'll work with the client, the brand, and we'll look take an initial snapshot of which um which models are being cited most frequently within their space. Um it's quite often it can be quite difficult to track. There are numerous models now out there, and it can be quite difficult to track and sort of impact all of them to the same extent at the same time. Um, I would say typically, I think we're finding, you know, Copilot obviously is powered by ChatGPT. So ChatGPT tends to rule the roost in in the majority of cases, but there's not much of a difference in terms of volume and interest, what we're seeing at the moment, at least, between ChatGPT and kind of Google's AI capabilities as well.

SPEAKER_00

Is Claude featuring?

SPEAKER_01

Um, yes, to some extent. I think less so than ChatGPT and Google. Um but again, it could all change. It can all change very, very quickly. And we're seeing, we're seeing, you know, we're starting to see, I think, within within our professional lives generally, you know, each AI tool, each AI LLM is being used for slightly different things. And starting, they're almost starting to carve out a place in the market where they're wanting to own a certain space. I think, you know, Claude, for instance, data analytics. I know there's a lot of talk at the moment about how powerful a tool it is in that space. Um, but perhaps less so from a from a kind of insight and expertise type.

SPEAKER_00

Um, interesting. I always think of it as more lengthier replies, but I don't.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, possibly.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe that's just you've just described it better than I have.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I suppose I always think that when I'm at work, I don't know I use Copilot. When I'm at home, I use Chat GPT, but I couldn't really tell you why.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I think this comes back to kind of we're creatures of habit, aren't we? And again, you know, if we're looking at professional people who are desk-based, whether they're a Google business or a Microsoft business might have a massive bearing on whether they're using Google's product, Gemini, for instance, or whether they're they're deferring to Copilot quite frequently. So that could have a massive bearing on it as well.

SPEAKER_00

And something our consumer clients are finding is that a negative piece of coverage could actually come back to haunt them quite a long time afterwards from reports in the national media. Is it can the same be said of B2B coverage as well?

SPEAKER_01

I think all brands are at risk of that that very um that very issue from occurring. I think perhaps, you know, without being um very, very stereotypical here, I think perhaps the consumer facing brands and the prevalence of kind of review sites and and that, you know, that portion of the industry, I think, can have a presents a bit more risk than maybe we see with some of our more technical high-end B2B clients. Well, you know, you don't tend to see TripAdvisor reviews or you know, trust pilot reviews for things like machine tools, for instance. Um, but every brand's at risk. I think one of the things that we are keen to point out to our clients is that corroboration of authority, um, information, expertise across multiple channels and across multiple sources is really, really important. I think that's what we're seeing more and more the AI algorithms are recognizing is that consistent message being deployed across multiple channels is really key. So I think in reality, I'd hope that those brands that invest in that space and really commit to that consistency of message across multiple channels will be less likely to be at risk of that kind of you know historic negative coverage coming back to bite them.

SPEAKER_00

So we've talked an awful lot about trade media, um both standalone and its role in uh GOAI search. How can trade media integrate with broader B2B marketing campaigns that include owned and paid media, etc., as well?

SPEAKER_02

That's quite central to what we do. I mean, um, that's where for me the trade media and the whole content marketing um um tactic um really comes to the to the fore. Some of the best work I think we've done is when we've taken, you mentioned research before, is take taking research, producing an industry report. Yes, there's PR that comes off the back of that, but there's also paid media to drive downloads, to drive sales leads, there's there's um there's social media that can come up that that comes off that as well. Uh website landing pages, all of that comes together in a um in a in a um uh a content marketing campaign.

SPEAKER_01

I think where our sort of earned media coverage can really enhance a campaign is building that that credibility and building that trust again. I think I'm I'm always very mindful of the you would say that, wouldn't you, response if we're if we're only communicating to an audience from the brand's own channels. Um, you know, give you an example, we work with a sports pitches specialist who are very, very big at kind of elite level hybrid, hybrid pitches, basically. And you know, we could go out into the market and say hybrid pitches are the best thing since sliced bread. The response to that would naturally be, well, you'd say that was that. Well, funny that you sell them and you've got, you know, you've got product to sell here. But I think where cover where trade coverage in that that earned media really comes into play is we can use other voices, we can use voices of customers, we can use case studies, we can use that type of um trust signal, again to use that phrase, to really enhance the the overall campaign. And to earn earned coverage carries a almost an extra layer of weight, I think, with a target audience. It shows that this has been this has been through an editor, they've really scrutinized the quality of that content, the again, the credibility of it. Um does it stand up? Is it is it going to resonate with a given audience? And and the impact that comes off the back of that isn't necessarily greater than the the results that we can achieve from owned content as well, but I think that fusion of the two together can be a really powerful thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think it doesn't matter whether it's B2B or B2C, it's it's the same.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

So a curveball of question, um, this hasn't really got very much to do with trade media at all, but what are the biggest challenges that are facing B2B marketers at the moment?

SPEAKER_02

I think the biggest um challenge that B2B marketers have at the moment is proving that ROI, uh um, proving that the money that they spent, be it on PR, on paid media, whatever it is, is genuinely producing um um a return for the business.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think when when we look at the B2B environment, I think there has always been, there's always been an expectation I've always felt within internal kind of a commercial function that marketing should and can have a much more direct impact on sales. Uh, you know, that happens in the consumer world as well. But that emphasis on brand and the kind of long-term brand building exercise, I think historically hasn't always been given as much um as much emphasis, maybe in the B2B space. It is very, very important. I think that's a conversation that we're having with clients all the time is you know, brands don't achieve success overnight. But equally, we're in quite a challenging socioeconomic climate at the moment. And to put it mildly, to put it mildly. And um, yeah, and and naturally, businesses, B2B organizations, much like B2C organizations, are having budget scrutinized. So we need to make sure we do everything we can to demonstrate that tangibility of impact, I think, which I like to think is something that we're we're particularly strong at in terms of our reporting metrics and that point that we discussed earlier on about drawing links between the work that we do and the impact on demand, um, I think has become increasingly important and certainly won't go away anytime soon.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And a final question from me. Um, what's the trade media going to look like by 2030, 2035, and beyond? Will it all be written by AI?

SPEAKER_01

I'd like to think not. Let's hope it's not going to be completely uh outsourced to AI. I think I think we're likely to see a again, we'll see channels diversify. Um, we often find that the B2B media landscape kind of follows the B2C landscape in in many ways. And I think the um video first platforms, I think I'd expect those to become more prevalent. I think channels like podcasting, I think will become um more prevalent as well. I think we've also got to be mindful though at the same time that a lot of our media outlets that we we engage with, they're quite resource-light. So I think there's a reason why we're not seeing podcasts left, right, and centre from you know the medium outlets that we deal with.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, gone a days of trade teams or trade magazine teams being six, twelve people strong, it's one or two now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

So if you're if you're a a single point of contact, an editor that's running a magazine, sometimes two, um, and you know, the website that goes with that, are you gonna how many channels can you realistically take on? But I think we'll see attention spans are dwindling, aren't they? So I think we'll start to see snackable content become more prevalent. I think video content, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Have you got anything to add?

SPEAKER_02

Um all of that, I think the numbers will the numbers of trade magazines will drop. We will get to a point where individual sectors have one or two very, very good magazines. Um and and um um the rest just won't be financially viable.

SPEAKER_00

So you feel confident about the future of uh of trade of trade titles and trade magazines?

SPEAKER_02

It's it's been it's been written off far too early. Um the the landscape is changing. Um but the and there will be winners and losers on the back of really what Rob said before. People need this information as part of their professional lives. They have to go somewhere to get it. Um it's PR's job to provide the magazines with the um with the stories um that speak to though to that speak to their audiences.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's really important that we have a thriving sort of trade media landscape purely because of the the challenges we face at the moment with trust, trustworthiness of news, trustworthiness of content, be that led by individuals, be that led by brands. Um so I think you know, I would like to think that the trade press, the trade media will be here for a long, long time to come. And actually, I feel quite strongly that in the current climate, it's this this sort of trust debate and the trust challenge that we face, it's probably in a sense increased the the value that we place on the trade media, that we need to that we need to track place on the trade media as well and the work that we do, um working closely with our clients as well.

SPEAKER_00

I'm conscious of what you said earlier about well, you would say that, wouldn't you? But um, would you tell marketers to keep on investing in in trade media relations?

SPEAKER_01

I would tell marketers to keep on investing in trade media relations. I would say that, absolutely. But no, I think you know, all the points that we've mentioned over the course of this discussion, you know, I think there is in our professional lives, we will find information through different channels at different times. Um, you know, even now, I think we've got to we've got to think about people as being people with work lives and home lives, but the two have become increasingly blended as well. So I think Tom made a really good point earlier around the media and the way that those titles we consider to be kind of top tier. They're the ones that amplify their content across social channels, they're the ones that make their content easy to find and easy to stop us in our tracks when we're sat on the sofa watching the football of an evening. Um, that's you know, we'll still read, we'll still consume work-based content in those, in those times as well. So I think, yeah, absolutely. Keep investing and keep keep kind of gathering those insights and making sure that you're invested in that proprietary data opinion insight that really kind of um demonstrates you can offer something different within the market to the competition.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's brilliant. Thank you both so much for your time. I've learned a huge amount, and I'm off to go and read my trade trade media now.

SPEAKER_01

Pleasure, thank you. Thank you.