What's Got the World Talking?

B2B vs Consumer: Lessons Worth Learning

• WPR • Season 1 • Episode 9

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In this episode of What’s Got the World Talking? we’re exploring the relationship between consumer and B2B marketing – two disciplines that are often positioned as opposites, but are increasingly overlapping in how they think, create and deliver impact.

As an agency with teams spanning B2B and consumer, it’s a topic that’s close to our hearts. Is consumer marketing really more creative and reactive, with B2B its more serious, rational counterpart? Or is that distinction outdated? From creativity and strategy, through to audiences, influencers and evaluation – what can each side learn from the other and what happens when traditional lines blur?

Jane is joined by associate creative director Dan Gabriel and associate director Rob Jones to discuss the misconceptions, the opportunities, and to ask whether B2B and consumer are really all that different after all. 

If you're fascinated by the topics that get the marketing world talking, make sure you don't miss an episode of What's Got the World Talking?

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SPEAKER_03

There is no playbook, there's no blueprint for that. If you're doing something that's genuinely individual and unique and innovative in the in the market, you're not doing what everyone else is doing.

SPEAKER_00

Like we're not boring, we're not crazy either.

SPEAKER_01

If I'm sat on the sofa of an evening flicking through TikTok, I'm there to be sold to from a B2B brand just as much as I am a B2C one. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_03

It's amplification of values, I think, is what it is what it really brings together.

SPEAKER_00

Beautifully put, yeah. It's amplification of values. I remember that.

SPEAKER_01

You can say to a consumer, we need you to act, and we need you to act now based on how the weather looks outside. Yeah. That just simply isn't a conversation that's going to happen in a in a B2B industry.

SPEAKER_00

The purchase you're often making on a B2B level could be spending millions and millions on a machine. Well, that's a long thought-out journey to making that decision, where the decision to go to the pub for a pint is a quick one made on the spur of the moment.

SPEAKER_02

This could be quite controversial, really, couldn't it? Instantly.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to What's Got the World Talking, the podcast that delves into what's on the minds of the marketing PR and social media world? In this episode, we're exploring the relationship between consumer and B2B marketing. Two disciplines are often positioned as opposites, but are increasingly overlapping in how they think, create and deliver impact. Is consumer marketing really more creative and reactive? With B2B its more serious rational counterpart, or is that distinction outdated? From creativity and strategy through to audiences, influences and evaluation, what can each side learn from the other and what happens when traditional lines blur? I'm joined by Associate Creative Director Dan Gabriel and Associate Director Rob Jones as we discuss the misconceptions, the opportunities, and ask whether B2B and consumer are really that different after all. So I know you've uh appeared on the podcast before, but do you want to start by reintroducing yourselves?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm Rob, Associate Director here at WPR, predominantly on the B2B side of our business.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm Dan, Associate Creative Director at WPR. So working across both consumer and B2B.

SPEAKER_00

Well, welcome and thank you very much for coming back. So today we're going to discuss all things B2B versus consumer marketing. I think we're really lucky at WPR that we've got clients that span an enormous range of sectors from retail to leisure to engineering, manufacturing, construction. So we get to work with marketing teams in all walks of life. So let's set the scene before we go into the detail. If we're talking in really broad strokes, do you think it's fair to say there's a tendency for people to view consumer marketing as more creative, more fun, and B2B as its more serious, perhaps rational counterpart?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's fair. I think I think that's a valid assumption. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure we'll go into the reasons behind some of those assumptions as well. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I think there's definitely some truth behind that. It's not to say that that is exclusive to every B2B or consumer brand. I think we are starting to see uh a shift in the landscape. And I think there's a lot of the cues that come from consumer that are starting to span into the B2B space, and vice versa, actually. I think we're starting to see a bit more of a blurring of the lines for sure.

SPEAKER_00

So you don't think that there's there's truth to those assumptions, but uh they're not set in stone. They can't.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that we're, you know, that this this industry, the landscape that we operate in, it's changing all the time, isn't it? And like Dan says, I think we're seeing, we see, I think for a number of years we've we've kind of maybe fallen into a bit of an assumption that sort of B2B follows B2C and we see trends come through the B2C markets that then um get introduced to those kind of B2B brands and the and the sectors they work in. But I think I think like Dan says, I think there are instances now that we're seeing where the opposite is happening as well, and things are working both ways.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'd agree with that. And what do you think the biggest misconception marketers on the other side have about what the other does?

SPEAKER_03

This could be quite controversial, really, couldn't it, in some ways. But I would say probably the biggest misconception from consumer side for B2B is that B2B is is very functional and dare I say it, boring. I it it absolutely doesn't have to be boring, and that is it's very it's very subjective, isn't it? Because it's like if you're talking to a consumer marketer, they are thinking in a consumer mindset, and something that would be interesting to them might not have the same sort of interest levels. If you were talking about a very technical manufacturing engineering product to a consumer, of course it's not going to be interesting. Um, so I think there is probably an assumption that B2B is more functional in terms of the delivery, which uh I would potentially challenge.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think, you know, to flip that, I suppose the the perceptions I think from the B2B side into the B2C side is maybe it's it's sort of often creativity at the expense of sort of substance and business impact. It's frivolous. Yeah, a little bit more frivolous, a bit more shallow potentially, a bit fluffy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think you know, we we hear these words sort of get thrown around, I suppose, as stereotypes quite a lot. Do we think they're completely fair? No, I would say. And I would apply that to both sides.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree with that. It's like one like like we're not boring, we're not crazy either. We're all just doing a really good job for marketing teams and delivering the results we need to. So I suppose taking that into account, Rob, where have you seen the most creativity in B2B marketing of late?

SPEAKER_01

I think I think we're seeing now creativity, particularly on social, really come to the fore within the B2B space. I think for a number of years, particularly B2B brands looking to sell a product or service, we we were kind of maybe a bit guilty of being beholden to editorial policies. You know, the media will say, oh no, you can't talk about that product. That'll be seen as advertorial or that, you know, that's two sales in a message. So I think we potentially, as a result of that, almost shied away from, oh, well, we can't actually talk about the product that we want to sell, which you know is a bit of a false economy, potentially. I think what what the sort of social channels and the I suppose algorithmic preferences on those social channels have led us towards is very um people-oriented content. We can promote product, we can promote product in a humorous way, a creative way, um, a more dynamic way. And I suppose less of a um, what's the word I'm looking for? I suppose less of a uh formulaic sort of way as as as may have been um seen through traditional kind of editorial PR practices.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's sort of going back to that that functionality point as well. I think it can become very easy for marketers on both sides to fall into the trap of focusing on product USPs and specification and not really thinking about the value that it unlocks for the customer. And I think more of those kind of emotional territory marketing tactics that really tap into the human truths, I think are starting to span into the B2B space a little bit more. So we're not defaulting to just talking about the product and we're starting to really think about um how we entertain the audience, how we build trust, how we kind of you know tap into their sort of wants and needs more impactfully across the channels that we're operating across.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's it. You know, the the old adage people buy from people has always come into play within B2B. And I think whereas before that used to manifest itself through thought leadership, which I think still has a really prominent place in the kind of comms mix, we're now seeing things like employee-generated content come through on social, using a lot of third-party testimonials, spokespeople from you know, our clients' customers, for instance. So that human kind of connection that that Dan's referred to there, I think has become a real mainstay of everything we do on B2B now. And I think with that, that we do need to apply kind of a creative mindset to that to make sure that even within that that space, the the formats don't become too kind of copy and paste and formulate.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you're still selling to people, like fundamentally, whether it's machine components or trainers, yeah, the the fundamentals of marketing still still stand, whether it's a B2B or a consumer audience. And I think having that people focus lens on creative and really understanding the human truths, whether it's the pain points of customers or whether it's how we kind of entertain and engage an audience beyond just product and commercial messaging, I think the the the two sort of straddle each other, really.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that excellent points. So tackling the uh the reputation that your area of specialism has of just being wacky or overly creative, can you think of any brands that you think, yes, their creative is really good, but I can see a really solid strategy, a good functional purpose behind the campaigns that they're they're putting out.

SPEAKER_03

Um I think a really good example of a a brand that has identified its strategic response and and and really delivered is Audi. Um I think Audi has developed a really clearly defined brand persona and tone of voice, and I think it has maintained consistently that persona to market, and um as a result of that, it it comes across as a very confident brand. It really understands its audience, it understands its customer base, um, and it has delivered it consistently over time, and that longer-term brand building has really paid dividends in terms of commercial impact.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. We are super fans of Audi, and thank you for not mentioning Mark Suspense as MS, because that's usually what is all over these podcasts.

SPEAKER_03

I was going to, but it's ever changed from the norm.

SPEAKER_00

And Rob, do you often face reluctance from B2B marketers to be creative or a misunderstanding of what that means?

SPEAKER_01

I don't necessarily think it's a reluctance, but one thing I do think plays a part in this, I think, you know, over the last 10 years in particular, probably way longer than that, yeah, the the the level of access that we have to performance metrics and the the expectation, I think, a lot of the time for B2B brands to link their marketing efforts directly to the sales funnel, I think means that there can be a degree of reluctance on the grounds that if if you're gonna spend your budget, you're gonna spend it on the long-term brand building activity that maybe requires a bit more creative thought and creative execution, or the short-term kind of performance delivery, which which puts website traffic on the table, it puts sales leads through the funnel. I think I think sometimes it comes down to that. So I think, you know, often people I I still like to think that a lot of the sort of you know, CMOs, marketing directors, marketing managers, they're in their roles because they like the kind of creativity that can come with it, but there's also pressure around that boardroom table as well to deliver those kind of KPIs for the business too.

SPEAKER_03

There's perhaps more of a focus on short-term gains versus long-term brand building efforts within B2B marketing teams. I think one of the other challenges you have is often you'll be working with a a smaller marketing function within a B2B organisation. That's not the case for every company, but um certainly you know, some of our consumer clients, we've got marketing teams of 40-50 people, whereas on the B2B side, you might be working with a marketing team of two or three, and they'll be reporting directly into the CEO or the managing director. Um, you know, there is more of a grasp or an understanding, I think, in some consumer brands of the longer-term benefits of brand building activity and how that can really help support the shorter-term gains and the more conversion-based activity that you might be talking about.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd massively agree. I think if we um you know, think into our client base, you know, there's one client I can think of in particular in the construction space who, you know, they have a team headed up by someone who's from a brand background, you know, a head of brand, and the conversations we have fascinating. Love having the conversations that we have about that consistency of um connecting the brand with customers at the right times. And I think it's it's really refreshing when we when we have those conversations. But like Dan says, not every B2B organization has the sort of is fortunate enough to have someone that sees that sort of the importance of the long-term investment in brand. And I think that's maybe where one of the big challenges we face lies.

SPEAKER_03

I think I think the other point that I would add is it's probably fair to say that some B2B marketers are a little more risk-averse, I think, than than consumer. Um and I think it's you know it's difficult. We I've used this um uh analogy in in previous podcasts, but we we hear a lot about um disruptors and and and we want to disrupt the market. And I think it's a really it's it it's a risky, it's a risky thing to be talking about because there is no there is no playbook, there's no there's no blueprint for that. If you're doing something that's genuinely individual and unique and innovative in the market, you're not doing what everyone else is doing. It's that sort of distinctiveness that is is really hard to quantify what the impact is going to be because it hasn't been done before. Um, so I think there is perhaps a little bit more risk aversion within the B2B space because nobody else is doing something. It's really hard to then take that to the C-suite and say this is the direction that we need to be taking the business or the brand.

SPEAKER_00

But it's it's a very different market, very different challenges because the the purchase you're often making on a B2B level could be spending millions and millions on a machine. Well, that's a long, thought-out journey making that decision where the decision to go to the pub for a pint is a quick one made on the spare of the moment. So that is reflected, I think, in certainly how we approach briefs and how our marketing teams think. It's very different challenges.

SPEAKER_01

I think different challenges involve in a more complex ecosystem of decision makers as well. I know you know we use the example as a as a bit of a flippant one, but I can go, I can go down the high street and buy a pair of trainers on a you know Saturday afternoon. That's that's just on me. You know, that's down to me what you know what what I want to buy for my own personal gain, I suppose. If you're looking at spending half a million pounds on a you know some industrial machinery, there's people involved in that from you know, right at the highest level. There's the people on the factory floor, there's the people in procurement, in sustainability in ESG. And you know, we've got to be, I think in our in our sort of the work that we do with our clients, we've got to think quite carefully about which messages resonate with which um parts of that decision-making network as well.

SPEAKER_03

I think it's understanding the purpose of each channel and the role that it plays in that decision-making process as well. And I think certainly on the consumer side, we're I I think I think consumer marketing teams are quite good at understanding the role of organic social, for example, in terms of building community and generating brand affinity and not using that necessarily as a place to sell. Like ultimately it's gonna impact your results, it's it it's gonna drive down your performance, it's not gonna build that longer-term brand equity. And I think we can be guilty of sometimes defaulting to a sales message or a product USP in those spaces when actually, I mean, people aren't gonna click a Facebook post and buy a two million pound machine equipment for for a business. We wish they did. But then might be well, exactly. Yeah, we'd all be doing it if that was the case. So it's really understanding the the channel mix, the content ecosystem, and the messages that we're delivering to those audiences across those different touch points to make sure that we are building the brand in the right way.

SPEAKER_00

So I know we've touched on audiences um briefly already and how you know B2B people buy from from people. Is there the distinction that there used to be between people's personal and professional lives? And are you talking to the same person or different personas in that in that regard?

SPEAKER_01

I think the lines are blurring massively, or have blurred massively. I think you know, we um we all know it ourselves in our personal and professional lives. You know, if I'm sat on the sofa of an evening flicking through TikTok, you know, that there is in a sense, I'm I'm there to be sold to from a B2B brand just as much as I am a B2C one. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think if the content's positioned in the right way, and I think this is the key, isn't it, is making sure that I don't feel like I'm at work if I'm scrolling through my social feeds because the content's engaging, it resonates with me. I'm maybe still thinking about some of the challenges I'm facing at work that day, that week, that month, and and seeing content at the right time doesn't necessarily have to be within the nine to five, that really kind of hits the right note, I think is can really make a massive difference in kind of in in really uh capturing an audience's imagination.

SPEAKER_00

And similarly, we're seeing consumer brands do great stuff on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. LinkedIn provides a a unique environment for brands like surreal because it's seen as a professional platform, they're actually using it to really drive and build that engagement with a community in a in an unexpected environment. I think um, yeah, I suppose to to to to agree with with with Rob's point really, I think the the fragmentation of the media landscape is something that we're seeing across both consumer and B2B, and it means that content can't just live and breathe in in one environment anymore, it has to span multiple channels, multiple um ways of reaching those audiences. So it's uh it's about kind of thinking about your creative in a channel agnostic way and really using the the different platforms, the different kind of forums for reaching your your customer base, and also thinking about the the unique ways to kind of interact and engage with them on those platforms. I think consumer marketing is is quite good at participation. I think B2B is perhaps a little bit more broadcast at the moment, and I think there are ways that B2B can do more to really bring their customer into their brand world and use it as an opportunity to build that community as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree with all that. So let's talk about content creators slash influencers for a while because I know it's a huge for it forms a huge part of consumer marketing now. Um, are we seeing B2B brands uh turning to the content creator route more? I know linked influences are a thing.

SPEAKER_01

I think, yeah, we're absolutely seeing more and more brands look to influences in in sort of specialist B2B sectors now. I think one of the things that I think's really come to prominence and you know we keep coming back to, I think, in every episode, is AI and this need for real human connection, uh, trust signals, authority, credibility. And I think what content creators can do in the in the B2B space just as much as they can in B2C is show there is demand for a product that is real, there is tangible benefits to a product, be that on the factory floor, be that in a leisure facility. Um, I think there is a degree of you know, we've seen it before with other kind of media trends and so on, that B2B's maybe been a bit slower to embrace the creator space. But I think the reality is, you know, content creators, it's become a profession in its own right within the consumer world. Whereas within B2B, I think we're seeing influencers who are are, yeah, they have an employer whose professional kind of interests, reputation they have to bear in mind as well. So I think I think we're we're seeing it certainly shift in that direction through that that need and that demand for more human connection within that, within the B2B environments we work in.

SPEAKER_00

So on the consumer side, I think brands can continue to plow ever more money into what their work with content creators. Are you not seeing any decline of that trend, are you?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, creative marketing in the consumer space continues to be um to be huge. Uh I think fundamentally the same principles for consumer uh creative marketing apply for the B2B space. It's about building trust signals, it's about peer-led endorsement, about kind of driving um third-party recommendation for a brand or a product or service. And we're seeing that absolutely translate into the B2B space. One um one of our um, we work for a boiler brand, and um heating and hot water engineers are absolutely huge on TikTok. So we've done a huge amount of work working with relevant creators in that space and actually driven uh a huge amount of visibility, reach and engagement around more sort of B2B led messages, but focusing on um those individuals um working and operating within that sector. Um so you wouldn't necessarily think that TikTok would be the first place to go for that sort of market, but there's there's absolutely demand there, and um, I think it's about really kind of identifying where the audience is and where the opportunity is um for for your brand. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Are we going to see more AI influences on consumer? Might it creep into the B2B space?

SPEAKER_01

I like to think not. I hesitate because I think it's not it's a it's it feels like a never say never type answer, but I you know I'd really I'd really like to think not. I think you know we we talk a lot about credibility. I think, particularly in the professional world, the B2B world, where your professional reputation is at stake, both as an individual and potentially as a brand as well, I think there's there's a lot on the line for those that that kind of go down the route of AI generated influencers, creators, etc. In the same way that we're speaking to clients now about the risks associated with AI generated content from a written editorial standpoint as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I agree with that. I I I think you know, if if your content creator, your influencer is is fed by the machine or is fed by a brand voice, then it takes away those trust signals, which I think are really important with any kind of creator partnership. Um yeah, we talk a lot about authenticity, and I think that that value exchange is really important. You know, you're going to trust someone who's real and not someone that's generated by AI.

SPEAKER_01

I agree with that. I think the other thing that I guess sort of sprung to mind when you were talking through the um sort of content creator and that and that market is there is a degree of influence there. Of course there is, but there's also the element of user-generated content that brands can get from working with influencers as well. I think we've certainly spoken to brands in the B2B space and almost seen influencers and creators not solely as being um a channel to use for the influence they have with an audience, but actually as a source of user generated content, which we know lands extremely well across all of the social channels in in 2026 and has done for a while now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's far more compelling to have a third party delivery. The message to an audience than just the brand voice? I think it can land with more impact when it's built from a third-party source. It helps to build those trust signals for sure.

SPEAKER_00

So moving away from the content creators, that was very interesting. Um and turning our thoughts to PR. Do you think that B2B marketers have more of a long-term view of corporate reputations than consumer brands do, or is that a hideous overgeneralization?

SPEAKER_01

I don't necessarily think it's a it's an over-generalization. I think I think rooted in B2B, I think there's there's some trends, some common themes we see. Um I think that's probably fair to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00

I think we we'd agree with that, wouldn't we?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think as a result of that, you do get that continuity. So you do get that consistency applied to reputation management, brand building, some of the stuff that we spoke about earlier. I don't think it's, you know, I I wouldn't suggest, I don't think there's an there's a degree of B2C brands viewing it as less important as such. But I think there's there's a lot more moving parts potentially in those consumer markets at times than there are and and and the channels that we operate on as well, than there are in the B2B space.

SPEAKER_00

So staying along that that vein, are consumer brands potentially guilty of pursuing campaign spikes at the risk of brand building solidly over time?

SPEAKER_03

I think the most um impactful brand strategies um maintain that consistent tone of voice and steady drumbeat of uh of messages to market. I think you can find that brands fall into the trap of doing a one-hit wonder, a spike of activity, and then falling off the radar completely. And I think where we see that consistency in delivery of the message, that's where it has the most impact because you're reinforcing the messaging in the mind of the consumer and you're building those trust signals over a prolonged period of time. And that can in hand um support your more sales-based messaging because you're really creating a fertile ground for the customer to purchase from you versus competitor.

SPEAKER_00

I'd agree with that. You need both, don't you? Yes, campaign spikes are great for creating noise, delivering action at critical trading periods, but you also need to have that kind of ongoing PR and wider marketing mix of channels to create that sustained brand awareness. And I think that's the same across both B2B and B2C, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think so. I think in the, you know, in both both sides and all markets really, you've got you have inevitably got brands operating in markets where there's seasonal demand, for example. Um, and that could be something as simple as, you know, financial year in the B2B space. But I think going back to the point earlier around you know, misconceptions or perceptions, I think sometimes from the outside looking in, there are certain B2C brands who it it can look like they kind of go all out with one big campaign and then maybe neglect the sort of steady drumbeat in between campaigns. I think maybe that's where certain certain B2C brands could learn a little bit from B2B, where maybe there's accusations that the steady drumbeat overrules the the sort of you know, the fireworks, as it were, and the spikes of activity. I think that like Dan says, there has to be an element of both.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and again it comes down to the the the challenges facing marketing teams of this considered purchase purchase versus this sort of spur of the moment purchase that the weather's out, you've got to get people down to to beer garden, it's gonna rain this weekend, calm it down. It's it's it's such different challenges facing both teams, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and like you say, the speed of decision, it it varies massively between the two. You can say to a consumer, we need you to act, and we need you to act now based on how the weather looks outside. Yeah. That just simply isn't a conversation that's gonna happen in a in a B2B industry.

SPEAKER_03

It's also really worth considering that the the channels you're operating across where your consumer, like brand where consumers are discovering brands and discovering content. And I think the it it it you know it ties into the the GEO debate, doesn't it? It's about having that frequency and relevancy of citations across the entire um internet and making sure that your brand is maintaining that visibility so you are showing up in the searches, but then also having those spikes of activity strategically placed around when consumer search demand might be peaking around a certain product or topic. Um, so it's yeah, it's about making sure that you have the combination of both to really drive impact.

SPEAKER_00

And does PR play a different role in B2B and B2C or is it similar?

SPEAKER_03

I think the fundamentals of PR are similar. It's about building, it's about building trust, um, long-term advocacy for for a brand and and creating that visibility and exposure. Um, you know, it's the role that that PR plays in in the wider marketing mix as well, in terms of supporting the other channels and creating narrative and and content that lives and breathes across across different um different content streams ultimately. And I think that that is the same whether you're marketing to a B2B audience or marketing to a consumer audience.

SPEAKER_01

I think one of the things that I I've found very refreshing actually over the last probably last five years, certainly you know, the definition of PR, I think now isn't isn't restricted to media relations and press coverage. I think as a result of that, I think we're seeing more brands but on both sides, B2B and B2C, apply that sort of channel agnostic approach that Dan referred to earlier. We're we're seeing that message spanning multiple channels, be that social, be that website owned channels, be that the media as well. And I think that's allowing us to be much more agile with the strategies we put in play for clients.

SPEAKER_03

I agree with that. I feel like we've got to a point in marketing where channel neutrality isn't just a nice to have. It's it's it's a must-have. And um, yeah, I I I think it's it's been really nice to see the role of earned media, and I think it's really sort of earned its place at at the table now. Um, I think marketers are starting to recognise the value that it can add to a business in both the long and the short term, um, and the you know, the impact it can really deliver for an organization at a really high level in terms of shaping narrative, in terms of you know, building the perception of a brand and really driving tangible impact for businesses. Um, it's not just seen as the afterthought that's just the bolt on at the end of the day. It really has sort of earned its seat at the table, which I think is really nice to see.

SPEAKER_00

So let's talk about evaluation for a moment um and how marketers prove to their businesses, whether it's a consumer or a B2B uh business, how they uh demonstrate the the impact of their marketing activity. Is there a difference do you see in the way marketers ask you to evaluate and and report onto their business?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think I think there's inevitably differences. I think we've we've sort of ebbed and flowed in at times between you know certain metrics being treated with higher levels of importance. I think lead gen has always been a, you know, and you know, the lead pipeline has always been quite closely associated with our reporting metrics on the B2B side of things. I think what I would say on that is I think there is a bit more recognition now. There was almost a um real appetite for everything's got to deliver leads when you know people are addicted to looking at their website analytics constantly and going, right, we've brought this campaign live. How many leads have come through the website? I think there's we've sort of managed to wean people off that a little bit now. And there's a bit more of a realization and acceptance that the long-term brand building does need to happen for that to be sustainable. That's exactly it. So I think you know, a lot of what we're doing and particularly on social is almost trying to build engaged audiences who can be who can be sold to in the right way at the right time. Um so yeah, I think fundamentally there are still um metrics though, I think, that span the two. You know, we're still looking at we're still looking at reach and relevancy of content you know, across social, across earned media as well. I think that's fair to say.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um but yeah, that there's there's inevitably the kind of leads conversation. Probably in the same way, you know, you will get certain B2C brands looking at direct impact on sales in the short term as well.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. And you know, there it's it's that balance of short and long-term gains, I I think, and it's having that understanding of the role that each plays in in the wider the wider puzzle. Um, I I think a lot of marketing teams are um are very well aware of the longer-term benefits of brand building and you know, certainly looking at those wider brand metrics as part of our measurement and reporting frameworks, looking at you know, you go prompted and unprompted brand awareness, looking at you know, brand love, brand affinity, share a voice, all of those kind of broader metrics that indicate that the work that you're doing is shifting perception or you know, influencing um consumer behaviour. But of course, that has to be underpinned with shorter bursts of sales driving conversion driving activity. And um the two go hand in hand. And I think they can't operate effectively without without one can't operate effectively without the other, essentially. Ultimately, the longer-term brand building piece is about improving the efficacy of what you're doing at the bottom of the funnel. And the more that you can do that and create that fertile ground, the easier it's going to be to push people over the edge and create those kind of um, you know, those sales that impact the bottom line. So it's looking at the two in comparison, I think. And I'd say that maybe B2B was perhaps a little bit further behind in terms of the longer term piece, but now you know you're not talking about e-com products, you're not talking about click to buy a pair of trainers, you're talking about you know, robots and expensive machinery and like mechanical engineering parts. Like these aren't things that people see a post and just click and purchase. So it's got to be a longer-term process.

SPEAKER_01

I think we work in industries as well in the B2B space where there's specialist sectors where there's a very finite and often quite short list of suppliers of a certain product or service. And I think that's where kind of looking at impact on share of voice becomes quite important because I think for the you know for the marketing teams that we're we're working with, I think they completely recognize that a decision to buy their product or service might be a long-term one. But what they ultimately want to do is make sure that they're front of mind. So when that that customer or that procurement network, if you like, are in a position where they do want to engage in a sales conversation, we're front of the queue as a as a brand. I think that's where that that share of voice, keeping an eye on that share of voice and trying to impact that share of voice favorably is is really important.

SPEAKER_00

So as we sort of start to think about summing this up, um, do you think the distinction between B2B and consumer marketing is is shrinking? It's a bit, they're becoming much more aligned than they used to be.

SPEAKER_03

I think I think there is there's certainly uh a blurring of the lines between the two. I think there is, I think there's always been a perception, and it it's not necessarily a conversation about strategy or or creative, because I think the two are indivisible. I think you need both to be able to land impactful messages with a consumer or a B2B audience. I think there can be a perception that B2B is perhaps less creative in terms of the delivery. Um, but I think what we are seeing more of as time has gone on is an introduction of those kind of consumer tactics, of that consumer mindset into B2B marketing. So there is more creative thinking, there is more out-of-the-x thinking that helps to deliver that message in a really impactful way to the market. Um, I think it's become a really crowded landscape across both consumer and B2B. The fragmentation of the media means there are more places that we can consume media, there are more brands competing, you know, we're competing now with creators, with with other brands, with other agencies. Um and because of that sort of attention economy, we have to we have to shout that that little bit louder sometimes for brands. Um, it's become a lot harder to capture audience attention, even harder to retain it. So I think thinking creatively about how we land that message really impactfully has become more important, I'd say, on the B2B side and adopting some of the techniques and the the thinking from consumer marketing is is becoming more and more prominent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think, you know, to I suppose flip that on its head, I think when we look at when I look at B2C brands now, and I think that you know, we've always leaned quite heavily on the B2B side into people, people buy from people again. And I think we're seeing that that rise of employee-generated content, I think shows that the people buy from people mentality can apply to B2C brands as well. Um, yeah, we're all all brands are competing for often the same things, particularly in in this day and age. It's credibility, it's trust, reputation. Um, and you know, those those really define all the strategies and the activity that we're delivering on a daily, weekly, monthly basis today.

SPEAKER_00

And one thing we haven't talked about, actually we've been quite separate B2B versus B2C. There are brands, including clients of ours, who actually have to talk to both audiences. And how you know that's a that's a challenge for marketing teams. How how do you best go about that? That's a huge question to ask.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, it's a it it's a it's a really good put talking point. I think we, you know, Dan mentioned there's a there's a heat in the hot water sort of solutions provide that we work with. And they they straddle both, they market to consumers and installers largely and other kind of specialist sort of B2B um decision makers too. And I think often it's about demonstrating demand and playing that creating demand and playing that demand back to the the other audience. So I suppose in this case it's we want to create consumer demand that we can then help installers to fulfill when it comes to fitting boilers, heat pumps, etc.

SPEAKER_00

It's that adage of you want to be the brand that the installer recommends and the consumer requests. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

We need both of those things, both those levers are to be working to it it it goes both ways as well, because it's also about providing that reinsurance to the installer that we're marketing to the end user. So the installer is the the ultimate decision maker in in many of those transactions. They will decide to choose a particular boiler brand, but actually showing the installer that we have a presence and we're building a community with the customer and with with the end user is a really great way of providing that reassurance that we are marketing to the end user as well. And um I think uh actually harnessing the the algorithmic benefits of platforms like TikTok is a is a really great way of doing that because the content will serve to the audience it's most relevant for. So we can have content that leans into more installer-focused messaging, we can have um interactions between the homeowner and the installer, we can have hints and tips on things that they can do to improve energy efficiency in the home that might be a little bit more geared towards the homeowner. Um, and it doesn't feel out of place within that content ecosystem because it all sits within a similar interest space. Um, you know, it can it can work really well for the installer to play some of that messaging back to their customers and give them opportunities to engage with their audiences directly as well.

SPEAKER_01

As ever with this stuff, I think also that the strategy that underpins that is really carefully thought through because I think when we look at the audiences we're dealing with and you look at installers, for instance, they're sole traders, they work by themselves. Is marketing and their sales pipeline a particularly uh prominent sort of thought that goes through their minds on it on a day-to-day basis? Some for some it will be, but I think we are trying to position the brands that we work with in those industries as being the ones that do the hard work for them. So they're creating a sales pipeline. The sell to the installer is well, we've got we've got a reputation, we're trusted, but also we can build a sales pipeline that you can then capitalise on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think you've got to have a really clear channel strategy, haven't you? I think where it goes wrong is we try to talk to both audiences on the same channel, and then your content appeals to everyone and no one all at the same time.

SPEAKER_03

That's chaotic, yeah. It can become a little bit kind of confusing, I think, because it's like who are we speaking to here? And um I th I mean I think I think the other point I would just add to this is um I suppose going back to my point earlier about earned media really sort of earning its place at the table and helping to define and shape brand narrative. And I think that can that can span all areas of communication across both consumer, across into you know, we talk about corpse humour and the corporate comms side and how that kind of brand strategy, tone of voice, you know, messaging structure can really be amplified across different audience segments, across different channels, but still making sure that everything has that consistency and that kind of frequency of messaging. So it you know, we're adapting it for the channel, we're adapting it for the audience, but it brings everything together to create that continuity. So when people do interact with the brand, they know exactly what it stands for. And I think we are doing a lot more of that work in helping to shape that for organisations and to help bring it to life through different channels.

SPEAKER_00

And what do you um understand, or do you think the term corpse humour means in marketing terms?

SPEAKER_01

I think corpse humour really is that that kind of what would have traditionally been been deemed corporate comms reputation management, you know, the the credentials the business has, the the success, it's it's performance. I think being able to translate that to the consumer and in-consumer, um in-consumer channels, I think is is how I'd I'd I'd view it. I think like Dan says, you know, the whether you're a a consumer or a B2B kind of decision maker, you are wanting to buy from, work with brands that have a they're trusted, they're credible, they're they're on an upward trajectory at times. And I think that to me, that's where the this corpse humour kind of concept really comes in. It's it's not the kind of financial results type story, it's evidence of the business being invested in the right areas, the business growing through.

SPEAKER_00

Just being aligned with its target consumers' value. So, for example, a supermarket wants to tell its consumers that it has a responsible milk purchasing farm policy, for example. I I'd see in that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. And I think to go back to the Audi point earlier, it's about like Aldi, yes, it does the fun stuff and it does the silly stuff. It you know it really knows how to engage its audience, but then equally it will have uh you know a tone of voice and it will have something that it stands for within the market. And I think it's about joining the dots in terms of those um it's amplification of values, I think is is what it is what it really brings together.

SPEAKER_00

Beautifully put, yes. Amplification of values, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03

It ties it ties all of the channels together with a core purpose that it communicates to its audience consistently, and that's what makes it a strong brand because everyone knows exactly what it stands for.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Beautifully put. Very well done. And are we seeing an increase from our perspective, the number of briefs that come through that have got a connected B2B B2C element or a core consumer element with that too?

SPEAKER_03

So I think we're definitely seeing a lot more briefs in this space that go beyond just generating coverage. It's not just about driving awareness for a business anymore, it's about how we shape brand messaging, tone of voice and reputation within the market. And that can straddle a number of different channels, a number of different specialisms. It's not necessarily something that is exclusive to B2B or consumer, it's about really defining the positioning of that brand. Um, and I think we will start to see more of that as time goes on and um businesses really identify the value that that can bring for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think that you know that that that strategy that underpins everything that we do. I think the other thing is we we do work with brands and and client teams who have channel specialists within their own teams as well, who might be absolutely expert at LinkedIn, Facebook, TikTok. They might be brilliant at creating content, in fact. I think what we've seen is we can work with those people in a slightly different way. It doesn't require, you know, they don't need to outsource all of their work to us, but we can be that kind of that guardian, that that sort of shaper of the message, the narrative, um, tone of voice, like Dan says, that the and even content formats that we know through work with other clients, through possibly even work with that particular client, we know is going to land. So I think that consultative work has become really, really important and really sets the tone for a successful collaboration between us as an agency and an in-house team as well.

SPEAKER_00

So, final question of the uh session: what can B2B marketers learn from consumer and vice versa? Same question to you both.

SPEAKER_03

Uh I think one thing that consumer brands can can learn from B2B is by default, B2B has always been a long game. Um the the customer journey is a longer one from you know from intent to purchase often. Uh, and I think as a as a result of that, B2B has had to operate in a way that builds that momentum over time and starts to prime its customer base. So it creates a fertile ground to help drive conversion at a later date when we're talking about a higher price point product. Um, and I think consumer brands have started to adopt that longer-term brand building mindset. So, brands like Aldi, for example, that have really consistently created that fertile ground for customers in order to shift perception and and drive that brand affinity. So, I would say playing the long game is definitely something that can translate across both.

SPEAKER_01

I'd say from the other side, I think the something that B2B brands can really take from their sort of B2C counterparts is there is a lot of value in that emotional connection with your customer. I think we see B2C brands in particular use entertainment humour really well. And I think we've we can't forget that people are people. Whether you're making your purchase decision within a nine to five or seeing content when you sat at the sofa at home, ultimately there is a way to engage people on the channels that they consume through entertainment and just being you know more lighthearted, more engaging at times.

SPEAKER_00

I'd agree with that. I think if you look at the B2B brands that are really flying, they are taking certainly on social a much more consumer take on the content they're putting out there.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think it's it's moving away from product USPs and specification, isn't it? You know, it's like Nike doesn't talk about its ergonomic trainer design. It very rarely talks about its product in its marketing communications. And I think there's a lot that B2B can learn from, I'm not saying B Nike, but it's a far more aspirational, emotionally driven message that it delivers to its audience and it makes it makes you feel like you're part of a community. And I think that's what consumer brands do really well is they build a community, they they really drive um participation with their audience and it moves away from being broadcast and into feeling something that is a little bit more interactive and a bit more immersive, and that helps build brand connection in the long term.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect. Thank you both so much for your time. I think that was fascinating. Thank you for having me.