The Role of Consumer PR in 2026

In this episode of What’s Got the World Talking? we’re turning our attention to the role that consumer PR can – and should – be playing for brands in 2026: specifically, the all-too-often underestimated contribution it can make to brand growth.

In a landscape dominated by performance metrics, crowded channels and increasingly sceptical consumers, how can brands earn attention rather than simply trying to buy it? Where does consumer PR fit when audiences are being bombarded with messages and are less loyal than ever? 

Jane is joined by associate creative director Dan Gabriel and senior paid media director Rob Lewis to explore how consumer PR is evolving, how creativity and credibility can fuel brand preference, and how marketers can harness PR and paid – together – for long-term visibility and brand reputation.

If you're fascinated by the topics that get the marketing world talking, make sure you don't miss an episode of What's Got the World Talking?

Web: www.wpragency.co.uk/podcast

YouTube: WPR Podcast - YouTube

LinkedIn: WPR Overview | LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Do consumers still neatly move that funnel anymore? You're laughing already. I'm thinking the answer that might be no. Spoiler alert. Yeah, that if and if if not, how how how how is that changing and how can brands adapt to that now? That's that's a lot of questions in Warren. Good luck.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

It's about developing, creating a content ecosystem that lives and breathes throughout all levels of your your customer experience.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I often think brands overinvest in paid without that foundation and that that brand equity that's been created by PR to be able to do that. But quite something coming from you given your job title.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

And I want paid to be there every time we activate PR. So we can all do it all goes hand in hand.

SPEAKER_05 0:45

Best friends forever. Welcome to What's Got the World Talking, the podcast that delves into what's on the minds of the marketing, PR, and social media world. In this episode, we're turning our attention to the role of consumer PR, specifically the all too often underestimated role it can play in brand growth. In a landscape dominated by performance metrics, crowded channels, and increasingly sceptical consumers, how do brands earn attention rather than simply trying to buy it? Where does consumer PR fit when audiences being bombarded with messages are less loyal than ever? I'm joined by Associate Creative Director Dan Gabriel and senior paid media director Rob Lewis to explore how consumer PR is evolving, how creativity and credibility can fuel brand preference, and how marketers can harness PR and paid together for long-term visibility and brand reputation. So welcome back. I know you're almost regulars on this podcast now, but just if anyone's new, do you want to start by introducing yourselves?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I'm Dan, uh Associate Creative Director. And I'm Rob, senior paid media director here at WPR.

SPEAKER_05 1:57

So today we're here to discuss all things the role of consumer PR in 2026, which might may leave people wondering why you're here, Rob, but all become clear. All become clear in no time at all. So before we dive into the detail of what we're talking about today, how would you describe the state of marketing right now for consumer brands? Marketers have ever more channels to look at and tools at their fingertips at their disposal than ever, don't they?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think the variety, the fragmentation of the media landscape, the variety of tools and channels that we have available to us is both a blessing and a curse, really, because I think it means that we have the opportunity to reach and engage audience in multiple environments, but it also means that it creates challenges in terms of scalability and precision, I would say. Um I think a lot of brands don't necessarily have a problem with with volume of content, but I think cohesion is something that can be a bit more of a challenge when we are operating across so many different media environments.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, I'd absolutely second that. I think more platforms, more tools, more data, it's easier than ever to get the message out, but it's harder than ever to get that message to stick. I think that's kind of my assessment. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 3:10

But there's just so much to think about as well. It's like, what even is the message? You've always forgotten when you're so focused on data and channels.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Yeah, absolutely. And how also it's also about how you adapt the message to the specific channels as well. So it's about taking that one piece of content and making sure that it is a landing with impact in those different environments, and it can't just be a lift and shift approach, it has to be very much tailored to the audiences and the platforms specifically.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

You think it's harder for consumer brands to to stand out, to stick than it than it used to be? Harder than ever.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, and I mean with AI, you've got to think about that as well. I'd say harder than ever, and it's got harder even in the last year or two, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Yeah, I I'd agree with that. I think in today's attention economy, um, it's it's harder to to capture uh consumer attention. It's it's even harder to retain it. And I think one of the things that is a real challenge for brands, it's again, it's not just about the the volume of content, it's about distinctiveness, it's how you you stand out from the sea of sameness and and how you kind of stand for something outside of your your your competitors.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

And how do you think consumer expectations and preferences have changed in terms of where, when, and how they interact with brands?

SPEAKER_03 4:24

For me, I would say there is definitely um an immediacy in the way that consumers expect brands to interact with them. Like everything is living in the moment. Yeah, I think sort of gone are the days when you know you write to a brand or you would you you very much expect that kind of um that brand response in in the moment. And I think because of the different platforms and the different tools that are available, the expectations are so much higher in the way that we interact with brands. So I think immediacy is definitely one of the ways that um consumers expect brands to interact with them.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, absolutely. Immediacy, and then I think there's kind of an expectation of cultural relevance. They're they're expecting not just to be spoken to by a brand, but to have a third-party co-sign in it. So I would say there's an expectation that there's creative involvement often.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

Yeah, but I think entertainment as well. I think you're seeing that more. I think maybe consumers feel look, I'm I'm investing in you, I'm giving you my hard-earned money, of which there's less and less to go around. Yeah, I I want to have some kind of reward and be entertained in office.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah, it's more than just a product, like you're buoying into um a world.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah, it's it people people buy more into that sort of brand interaction. I think the the the sort of the participation and that exchange that you have with brands is something that we're seeing uh a lot more of. I think the other thing is is personalisation, and I think you know, with the improvement in in in uh targeting tools and ad products, I think there is more of an expectation that the content that is served to us through the algorithms and through the different tools that we have available is going to be very specifically tailored to our wants and needs, and anything that isn't is immediately disregarded.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. So we used to talk very much about awareness, consideration, conversion, that funnel. Do consumers still neatly move that funnel anymore? And how you're laughing already. I'm thinking the answer to that might be no. Spoiler alert. Yeah, that if and if if not, how how how how is that changing and how can brands adapt to that now? That's that's a lot of questions in one. Good luck.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Yeah, I think the funnel's still really useful to think about as a marketer, but for a consumer, I think if you asked the consumer, how are you moving through a funnel? Obviously it's very abstract, but yeah, they wouldn't be able to say. I think it's really about from a brand point of view, you need to be thinking about consistency of message across channels, um, a really clear message and that being consistent wherever that message is being delivered.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Yeah, definitely. We talk a lot about channel neutrality, yeah, and I think it's it's more important now than ever before. It's about developing creating a content ecosystem that lives and breathes throughout all levels of your customer experience. There's an increased focus on how that message is delivered impactfully in different environments and making sure that it's very tailored to the wants and needs of both the audience and the algorithm.

SPEAKER_05 7:19

Yeah. Do you think the perception of PR as an awareness tool is outdated? What is PR's role in that funnel that's no longer a model or a funnel anymore?

SPEAKER_03 7:30

I think it's uh I think it is quite an outdate. I think you know, PR in its essence has has always served a purpose in terms of building um credibility, managing reputation, building trust with audiences. And I think that can really span all levels of the funnel that may or may not exist anymore. But I think the role of PR is so much more now in terms of shaping brand narrative and um using it as a as a tool to really deliver brand messages to audiences in a way that is both compelling and um and very much aligned with the the values of that specific organisation. So I think where PR can really help in terms of paid activation is it builds that longer-term trust signal for the audience and it really um works in terms of creating a fertile ground for uh for customers to to buy into a brand and to build on that brand affinity. So it improves the efficiency of any sort of paid activity that you're running and any conversion activity will will deliver more impactfully because you've you've really primed the audience up to that point.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Exactly that. I think um coming from a performance marketing background prior to joining WPR, um, I think I kind of didn't see PR as an important channel as it is. Now I realise without the brand equity that um PR builds, Paid just doesn't deliver in the same way for sure.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Oh I'm good, glad to hear we've we've conversed.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah, I've been converted.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

You're gonna be moving to applying for a job in PR next. And Dan, how would you explain to someone what PR can do today that perhaps it couldn't have done five or ten years ago?

SPEAKER_03 9:12

I think it the the way to explain it's really it's a really difficult thing to define, and lots of people will have different definitions of PR. For me, the biggest thing is about um reinforcing trust with within audiences and building that trust in a way um that is really compelling um for the audience and uh creates longevity for the brand to deliver its messages in a really authentic way. It essentially creating credibility for the brand. So when you are in a position where that audience may be in the market for a certain product or service, they're gonna turn to you because they've built that relationship, they've built that affinity within the market.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

And you must have seen a lot of changes over PR, the years you've worked in the in the sector.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

So many changes, yeah. I mean, I think even just the way that we we work across the media landscape. I mean, you know, it used to be that you you'd sell a story and you'd have 24 hours to wait before to find out if it hit the papers the the following morning. And I think because of the immediacy and the instancy of of content and how it lives and breathes across channels, um, the expectation is so much more now. It's it's the story breaking on social, it's you know, it's creating viral shareability before it even hits what we would see as traditional earned media. So I think it's thinking differently about the role that earned media plays and the different channels that it needs to live and breathe across to land really effectively with audiences.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

So when we look at the owned, earned, paid channel mix, do you think brands are getting the investment split right?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

I would say, and this isn't um Turkey's voting for Christmas. I often think brands overinvest in paid without that foundation, that that brand equity that's been created by PR to the first time.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

There's quite something coming from you given your job title.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I mean, I I we want obviously I think you need to be across all of those channels. There needs to be investment in earned, in owned, and in paid, but they work best when there's a balance between the three.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

No, I completely agree with that. I think the problem is that you'll have people in the C-suite, they want to see I spent that much money on the spreadsheet. What do people buy? Did I get my money back? So it's very hard to persuade them to invest in what was top of the funnel awareness activity where it it's it's harder to quantify the results in in that detail. But I think you I know that you've worked in lots of campaigns where you're showing the client cost per lead or cost per acquisition with and without brand campaigns running at the same time. Yeah. And you can show there is a direct correlation between a single brand.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

For sure. I think you're looking at around um a three X um improvement on conversion when there's strong brand awareness created by another channel.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Three times.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:56

Wow, that's quite significant. You'd agree with Dan.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

I think the the key thing to remember, and I think where it becomes an education piece when you are working with um with marketing teams is the it's a it's a long game uh often, and it is that longer term investment in brands, in you know, in growth, in building that trust, so you have a solid foundation. And I think there can be a tendency within marketing teams to go for the the shorter term gains and and you know to fun a lot of that budget into acquisition and you know trying to generate direct uh you know sales from from from marketing spends. So it is about educating on both the short and longer term benefits of investing in brands and and kind of increasing that sort of longer term equity of brand within the audience.

SPEAKER_05 12:42

And do you think brands, some brands or any brands are ever guilty of getting channels to deliver results they're not really designed for, rather than rethinking the mix?

SPEAKER_03 12:52

I think so. I think I think I'm sure you'll you'll agree, Rob, is yeah, people will often see paid as a silver bullet channel. Yeah, for sure. And they will want it to fix all of the problems that are.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, it's the miracle, it's gonna, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Exactly, yeah. And you know, yes, it can be a really effective channel for driving impact, but it can't solve all of your business challenges. And I think it's about making sure you've got the right foundations to ensure that you're able to use paid to amplify and supercharge and really drive performance where it needs to be driven.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah, I think when we unpack it, um, paid isn't actually a great awareness driving channel. Like we can get mass reach, but does mass reach mean conversions? Not necessarily does it mean trust? Just having millions of impressions, absolutely paid can do that for you. But unless people are bought into your this world that you've built through, owned and earned, then it won't necessarily convert into um performance on paid.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

We're in a world where trust is is an issue, you know. We've probably spoken about it in every single podcast. And I think earned media is it it it's it's earned its own its place at the table, I think, in terms of building that trust. It is that third-party endorsement and recommendation that holds and carries a lot of weight with paid, like, yes, you can you can amplify a message and you can get lots of eyeballs onto a piece of content, but it doesn't always hold the same weight as a third-party endorsement and getting people to actively engage with your brand um externally from something that you've you've supercharged with with media spend.

SPEAKER_05 14:27

So, where should PR be sitting in this complex landscape?

SPEAKER_03 14:30

I think it underpins everything in in some ways. It's it's almost that kind of foundational work that that builds longer-term brand weight and equity. Um, and I think it can it can work in so many different ways um in terms of approving the the efficacy of uh of any bottom of the funnel activity. Yes, it's an awareness tool and it can get visibility and eyeballs onto brand, but it can also really help to drive participation with audiences and create consumer conversations that are really meaningful for the brand. Um, so I I think you know PR has a a halo effect that works across all areas of a very complex content ecosystem.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Yeah, from my point of view, I want to be amplifying something that people are already talking about. So that's where PR comes in. If the if P if PR has already done a great job of creating that talkability, then that makes paid infinitely more scalable. So yeah, I from my point of view, um, I want PR to be there every time we activate paid, really.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

And I want paid to be there every time we activate PR. So we always exactly all goes hand in hand.

SPEAKER_05 15:43

I've been working in this industry for quite a while now, as you can probably tell, and it feels like this is a really interesting uh moment for PR for me. What do you think it is that PR brings to the customer journey that other channels can't necessarily replicate?

SPEAKER_03 15:59

I think we have seen um a huge shift in the PR-earned media landscape over recent years. I think we've we've moved past the point of just being a coverage generating tool. Um, and I think it's really sort of moved into a space of strategic brand direction, message shaping, um, you know, creating really compelling narratives that are going to drive brand visibility, are going to tell the story of the organization, um, you know, build trust with customers, um, and really start to create a community of people who are bought into the brand and are wanting to interact with that brand. So I think it's um it's holding a lot more value in the eyes of marketers. And I think we are being brought into the conversation a lot earlier. I think on the days of can you PR the ad for us? It's very much we are in those early conversations of how we shape marketing campaigns from the ground up.

SPEAKER_05 16:55

I think you probably aren't this already, Rob, but do you see a difference in paid performance when PR is is in the mix?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

You can absolutely put spend behind a brand that you know there isn't existing equity, and you could probably can, particularly direct to consumer products, you probably can extract some value with paid spend. But yeah, absolutely, if there's been that brand building piece fuelled by PR in the first place, then it it's gonna last longer, it's gonna drive more value for the business. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

I think it's also not just thinking about PR in terms of the sort of traditional media approach, it's thinking about ways that we connect with and uh uh and engage uh customers across the you know the full channel ecosystem. You know, that might be through Reddit forums, it might be on social, it could be TikTok creators. It's thinking of earned media in a bit more of a lateral way and not just defining it to online news coverage as we may have done traditionally, because I think that can really help to feed into paid content strategies. Not only does it help to inform messaging as well, like you can see what your customers are engaging with in real time, and you can use that to really feed into your creative and your paid amplification of those messages. Um, but I think it it also helps to define channel strategies as well because you can again see not just what they're engaging with but the environments that they're doing so. So, yeah, it all sort of works together in this complex sort of web of intelligence, I suppose.

SPEAKER_05 18:22

Web of intelligence, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

That's nice, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 18:24

Yeah I like that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Make a note of that.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

So obviously, we are somewhat biased because we've always you know believed in the power of third parties to give trust, credibility, authority to a brand. Do you think that it's as relevant today as it always has been?

SPEAKER_03 18:39

I think it is. I think that you know the fundamental principles of PR haven't really changed. I think just the way that we amplify the messages that that has changed, um, you know, ultimately is about delivering trust and and credibility and and and shaping reputation. Um, we're just using different tools and different channels to do that. So yeah, I don't think there's been a huge change in the way that that PR operates. It's more about the the channels that it's amplified across.

SPEAKER_05 19:08

I think there's some industries where that's even more applicable than than with others.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

There are certain industries where third-party endorsement and recommendation is absolutely crucial for delivering a brand message within.

SPEAKER_05 19:19

Even if the consumer knows it's paid for endorsement.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

I think there is more scepticism around paid collaboration with any partnerships. And I think this is why authenticity with within partnerships is really key because people will sniff it out from a mile away if it doesn't feel in line with the the creator's you know content, with their interests, with with you know, in line with their audience expectations of what that content looks like. So I think it's absolutely essential to make sure that the partnerships that we put forward are in line with brand values, in in line with the products that we're suggesting, the services we're suggesting, uh, and also there is that cohesion between the brand and the creator.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, exactly. I think even though there is increased scepticism when it's obviously paid for a paid for partnership, if that partnership is a really good fit, there's existing trust with the creator, and you know, the creator perhaps speaks about I only partner with brands that you know I really value and I really love their products. So I then I think that that kind of reduces the friction.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

We have a really robust vetting system for any creative partnerships that we do when we make sure that we are um doing a litmus test of all of the things you would expect. You know, we look at reach engagements, we look at the type of content they're producing, but we also then overlay it with with softer metrics around brand alignment, around um community engagement, audience metrics, all of those kind of really important things that signpost whether that creator is genuinely aligned to the brand.

SPEAKER_05 20:46

Yeah, definitely much more credible. And Rob, tell us what a Spark ad is and how effective you find those in the paid media mix.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

So a Spark ad is TikTok's version of a boost, and a boost is Meta's version of um promoting organic content um with paid spend. A Spark ads where um you can basically do a partnership with an organic creator. So the creators posted a piece of content organically, we've then picked it up and amplified it with paid spend, either to the creator's existing audience or to the brand's audience or to to a new audience if we're looking to drive new customer acquisition.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

And how effective are they as part of the paid media mix?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I think when we're looking at kind of integrated um campaigns where there's PR, there's owned um social, and then we're bringing in um Spark ads to drive conversion. Yeah, really effective. Um it absolutely controls it, we believe it.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

And this is a classic example, I think, of where PR and pay can work uh so well together. Because PR knows how to it it inputs just a you know, a new form of form of the media, but we you know we know the input we know how to work with them and we know that that it will really help with the paid media. Um that makes some performance as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Yeah. I think it goes back to how we we tackle briefs and taking that that channel agnostic approach. It's you know it's one message, many channels, and I think we we understand, we get under the the skin of the audience, we understand where they're operating, the channels they're across, and then we shape the messaging and the content to suit both the audience needs and the needs of the algorithm. So every campaign that we do will have that uh at its core essentially. It will it will it will make sure that we're not just going down the route of one channel, we're thinking more audience first and and channel agnostic.

SPEAKER_05 22:33

So I'm really interested to get back to something you mentioned um I think probably close at the beginning of this podcast, that you came from a performance marketing background and agency before joining us. What are the biggest differences you see in going from more of an integrated agency, I suppose, to one that was just focused purely on performance marketing?

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I think the belief from clients that, as Dan mentioned, that paid can be a silver bully. Um that was something that was really ingrained in a lot of clients at my previous agency. There was just an expectation that I'm here with the product, I've got distribution, we can ship. Let's make it, you know, make it a smash.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

If it was like that easy, yeah, if we wouldn't be in an agency where we're making our own product.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah, we wouldn't be doing this podcast. Um so really that kind of um that that that's the main difference is less of that expectation, and then really now the cohesion of the message from PR through owned, earned to paid. That that's the big difference. A performance marketing agency is the the focus is on the on the bottom line and and the conversions.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

So was the well I I I I loathe to use the term funnel and convert because we're we're laughing about it now, but you were very much focused on the bottom of the funnel, just conversion activity, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah. Yeah, it was I mean technically it could have been classified as top of the funnel when you're going after a new customer, but there wasn't that brand equity, brand building, world building piece. There was no consideration of that.

SPEAKER_05 24:10

I think there was a time, but wasn't there, where it was easier than it is.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

It did work for a while for sure. Um I mean there was I I worked with some clients now, you would not, you'd just be like, is this even a business? And we you were able to, you know, give them some scale. Yeah. But in in today's marketing landscape, they just fall flat immediately because there was there was no brand building at all, no focus on brand, and no recognition that brand drives performance over time.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

I think as well, a lot of those brands or those companies that you described were very quick to get onto the paid bandwagon. So they benefited from lack of competition. But you've only got to open any of your own social media thieves these days.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

You are bombarded and in so many different you know that again going back to that point about fragmentation of the media, there are so many more channels and more formats to be bombarded with now. So because of that, competition is it is rife. And I think it's not just a it's not just a content volume game, it's it's content quality. I think people have upped their game and brands need to up their game. Yeah, um as I say, you know, capturing attention now is so much harder than ever before. Retaining it is even harder. So I think creative really needs to pull it, pull its weight in paid now. It's not enough to just you know accelerate spend and and and to drive performance, you've really got to make sure that that messaging is right, that the creative is delivering, it's engaging the audience, it's telling the brand story, and also driving commercial impact for the brand. So it's a it's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

I would say though, that although, yes, absolutely way more competitive, isn't that that there seems a lower barrier to entry for brands to have good quality creative? What I would say though is there seems to have been kind of a there's a lot of same now. So although there's lots of competition, there seems to have been like a flattening effect. I think that's a lot driven by AI. And so what what I think is really important is going back to what you said, Dan, that distinctiveness piece. If you want to stand out in the super competitive market, it's really easy to get your message out.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

You can activate ads relatively easily, but yeah, you need that creativity and distinctiveness, which is where consumer PR and Creative Comms kicks in because it it gives you an opportunity to really define what that brand message looks like, how it's going to resonate with the audience, and then paid is really just the amplifier. It's about supercharging that message and making sure that it's being delivered with impact. So the the two work.

SPEAKER_05 26:42

So in a TikTok era, is the brand ad dead?

SPEAKER_03 26:45

I think a brand, a sort of more traditional brand ad, we know that if it isn't platform native, it's not working. So anything that feels overly polished, high production, rebranded, it doesn't work. If it doesn't feel native to the feed, it's not working. I think the creator-fronted, user-generated, you know, platform native ads that fit really authentically into the feed, um, can absolutely deliver. And of course, you've got you know, the world of social commerce, TikTok shop, etc., you know, works particularly well for FMCG brands. Um, there's absolutely an opportunity to really supercharge scale across the platform. I don't know if there's anything else you'd add to that, Rob.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, I absolutely agree in terms of native, being native to the feed. And I think there needs to be a recognition that your brand lives elsewhere other than the feed. So you're bringing people into this this world, this ecosystem via paid channels, by via your TikTok feed, and you you super designed, um perfect-looking brand can live on your website, you know. It doesn't have to be everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

Yeah. I suppose as much as you don't want to go onto TikTok and see a brand ad, you don't want to sit down and watch TV and see a TikTok either do that.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Exactly. It's just right place, right time.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Which again just points back to one of the things we discussed right at the very beginning that it is challenging for marketers because there are so many channels and platforms and formats and everything that you that you have to consider.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Yeah, absolutely. And it's it you know, it is about knowing how to translate those messages um correctly on on the channels, and it's it can't always be a lift and shift approach, it it's about adapting them to the customers' wants and needs, and you know, it might be about segmenting the audience and you know, identifying where the audience lives and breathes, um, and then shaping the messages to fit their needs, but also really understanding the platforms and the algorithms, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Shaping the format as well. Uh, there's nothing worse than trying to shoehorn um a video that's being created to go out on the newswire into TikTok. You know, it needs to be formatted correctly, short, attention grabbing, but the message can be the same. So as long as you know we're there from the beginning, the PR te and the paid team are there from the outset to make sure that you know there's that message cohesion, and then we're also developing that message to make sense across formats and channels.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

It means that we have to integrate right from well, we have to integrate right from the start, but certainly from production. Yeah. Because production absolutely has to be integrated. You know, we have to make sure that we're capturing it, you know, social first, you know, video assets, short form video, long form video, everything that can be optimised across the you know, own channels, website, YouTube, etc. It all has to be captured in the same um production process.

SPEAKER_05 29:36

So I think we've established that PR is a great kind of awareness and trust-building credibility tool that when executed properly has an impact on uh the performance of paid. With all that in mind, what does the dream brief look like to you two? Something lands at the door, it's an integrated response. What are you hoping to see in that?

SPEAKER_03 29:58

I don't want to be pushed down a channel. I think that's one of the worst things that can happen. And does it, you know, we know that sometimes someone will come to us and say, We need PR support. And it's not to say that we would look at that brief and say, no, that's not what you need. It's about understanding then how earned media would fit in with the rest of their channels and the rest of that can be integrated seamlessly. I think what's really good and what can be really impactful is when we get a brief and we have a real grasp and understanding of what the core business challenges that we're trying to address, because then we can again take a channel agnostic approach to trying to you know provide a solution to solve those problems, and that might be pulling through earned, it might be looking at owned, it might be looking at GEO. You know, we we'll make sure that we put forward the right approach, the right strategy, and the right channels to achieve those objectives. So for me, it's about it being a bit of a an open book in terms of the channels.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah, I think I'd agree. And then when you take that recommendation back to the client, there's an open-mindedness to, you know, they've come to you with a brief, they probably had a preconceived notion of how they think it should be activated. We'll go away, think that through, overlay consumer research, really create a strategy, um, and then take that back to them. That's a perfect brief when you know they take the recommendation.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

I think the other thing that's really important is it's not what I won't go away and work on a creative strategy and a creative brief without working with Rob and his team to understand because there's so much that we can learn from you in terms of channel optimization, you know, like to an extent you'll want to know the creative direction that's going to be taken. But equally, there's a lot that I'll be able to learn in terms of where the audience is operating and different channel opportunities. So that will then potentially shape how we'll ideate and how we'll kind of identify a creative route that's going to deliver the message effectively to the audience on the channels that they're operating. So it's about having that collaborative approach to the brief at a really early stage and not just seeing paid as oh, we'll just we'll just chuck a bit of spending behind it at the end. Once we've got the PR out, we'll just we'll just put it on Facebook and you know, boost a couple of posts. It it doesn't work like that, it's not good enough.

SPEAKER_05 32:14

So yeah, yeah, I agree with all of that. Is there a is there a simple answer to a very broad question when marketers are looking at their budgets, how much should go on creative versus paid execution, or how much should go on PR versus paid?

SPEAKER_00 32:30

I think it depends on where the brand is in its life cycle. If there's deep existing equity, then you can spend more on paid off the bat. But if you come in from zero or it's a campaign that's completely new, then yeah, there needs to be more of a balance, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

There's there's the 60-40 guideline, isn't there? 60% in in brand building, upper funnel, whatever we want to call it. It proves the efficacy of your lower funnel activity and that conversion and helps you to build that brand in a sustainable way over a prolonged period of time without just focusing on short-term gain. So it can be a starting point. Um, you know, yeah. I I think a lot of brands are probably guilty of um weighting a lot more of that spend into direct response. And you know, there's there's sometimes an education piece and a conversation that needs to be had in terms of what the long-term view looks like, yeah, um, and how we really prove the the impact of that work over time. Um, and I think where we have had the trust of clients to do that, we've got the proof and the case studies that show how it can really impact and improve the efficiency of lower funnel spend when you do invest in that brand piece, um, which I think is a really valuable thing to have as a case study.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Sure. And I suppose I'd prefer as well to have less media spend if we're going to invest in great creative because we know that that's what the platform rewards, that diversity. Well, the platforms. Um, if we've got a piece of great creative that we can adapt across channels, yeah, I'd rather have slightly less um media spend and a great piece of creative than something that's rubbish and lots of media spend.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Yeah, creative definitely you know pulls its weight more so than ever before. I would say like sometimes Rob will come to me and say, we can actually dial spend down on this certain and because people are engaging with it, because it's driving such strong performance, the content, the creative is actually doing a lot of the heavy lifting. We can pull back and we can actually scale and you know reinvest that budget in other areas. So it's about having that agility, not just to the certain formats, but the messages that are resonating with the audience as well, and we can get a lot of live learning from the paid media activation, the type of creative that's resonating.

SPEAKER_05 34:40

And are there any brands that you think have really nailed this kind of paid-owned quandary? And I've got all of their channels and platforms working seamlessly together.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

I really liked what um the makeup brand Refoi did recently, where they um they're an independent-owned brand, they don't uh they're not huge. Um, and they did some aggressive gifting. Well, might not have even been aggressive, they did uh some gifting, um, but didn't give the their partners um any caveats, any rules. You're just allowed to authentically test the product, test the product. That then created talkability. More people started to talk about it, and then they picked the best content and and sparked it.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

It was really nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

I'm gonna say dominoes. I often say that they're the most am I allowed to answer my own question?

SPEAKER_02 35:36

I'm gonna say I was also gonna say dominoes and I'm gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Domino's thing I say, don't I? They're the most commercially non-commercial business. Because if you just look at them on social, on organic social, they never sell you a pizza. No, they'll just they talk about stuff that's really relevant to their users in a really entertaining way, they never sell pizzas. And it's like, but do they ever sell pizza?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

But you get three techs a day.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

Leaf gets pushed through your door five times a day. And they have got it really right. They, you know, they know they're very commercial, so they'll reward you through entertaining you on their organic social channels, but they will sell a lot of pizzas to you on their. I mean, I get it, they've got a lot of pizzas to sell. Um, but I think they've really nailed the mix.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

I would say Subway is a really good brand uh for this. I think they're really good at identifying the cultural moments to be a part of, and they use earned media as an amplifier of brand personality and tone of voice. They're also a really commercial business. Similar way to domino is a really commercial business at its core. You know, they will um focus on price and promotion through through paid activation, um, but they really um identify that earned media has a role to play in building that trust and creating that engagement with their customer so that when they are in the market for a sandwich, they'll they'll come to subway over a competitor.

SPEAKER_05 36:55

I'm really craving fast food now, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 36:57

I kind of am actually talking about it coming out of the way.

SPEAKER_05 37:00

So, what's next in the world of uh earned and paid integration?

SPEAKER_03 37:04

I think we'll see an acceleration of what we've seen over recent years, and I think marketing has changed enormously in the last few years. Um so you know, obviously AI has accelerated the way that we um we use earned media to drive visibility and discoverability for brands. It's shaped how um how we amplify search, how we you know form brand narratives that that feed into own content, organic, paid. And I think we'll see that closer cohesion of channels and and content ecosystems. And um again, just continuing to see that sort of um channel neutrality that we've we've we've really experienced over the the last year or so.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

The brands that are are doing it right are gonna get better at it, it's gonna become slicker, less noticeable, more personalised, and we're kind of moving towards that everything, everywhere, all at once vibe where you know that that that um funnel is completely flattened, the consumer doesn't know where they're entering the ecosystem, but that that you know they're being messaged across channels and it's happening without them even noticing in a really slick, smooth way.

SPEAKER_05 38:14

We have a new model to replace the funnel. I feel I need them, I need one.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

The intelligence web's a nice one. I mean, I've I've read that that the funnel's collapsed, the funnel's exploded, the funnel's leaking, the funnel's there's the funnel's still there. Yeah, it's a teledrick. Yeah, but it's being rebuilt. Yeah, it's being rebuilt, reimagined, reimaged. Reimagined into a web.

SPEAKER_05 38:37

Yeah, yeah. I like all of that very, very much. So final question of the podcast: what is a one-piece advice you would give to marketers approaching this funnel web quandary um at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

I'd aim to uh simplify simplify your message, make it co cohesive, clear, concise, and something that can work across channels.

SPEAKER_05 39:03

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah, I think that's I think that's a really good point. I'd I think um distinctiveness is is the one word I would offer as as advice. I think it's really important to know what you stand for as a brand and be really clear on what that message is, you know, in a similar way to as Rob said, distinctiveness in the market, um, and then understanding how to amplify that message effectively across channels. And that's where we can help. Of course.

SPEAKER_05 39:28

It's hard for brands, isn't it? Because you've got to be native to the platforms that you're on, but you've got to be consistent.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

But it's got to be terrible, adaptive for the channels, so don't lift and shift, but also be really clear. Yeah, it's it's hard, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

Budgets have got to be split across far more things in times, and budgets are probably tighter than ever because of economic climate, etc. Who'd want to be in marketing at the moment, hey?

SPEAKER_03 39:50

That's tough. Tough game out there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 39:51

That's my podcast, I think. Well, thank you both very, very much. It was another fascinating episode, and I hope to see you on another one soon.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Thank you very much. Thank you.