What's Got the World Talking?

Careers Special: Getting into Comms

• WPR • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In this episode of What’s Got the World Talking? we’re turning our attention to a topic close to our hearts: careers in PR and communications.

It’s an industry offering incredibly varied and rewarding career paths, but many people either don’t know about the opportunities in PR, comms or social media or don’t consider it a possible route for them.

There’s also no question that, right now, finding and securing that first role can feel daunting. So, whether you’re finishing exams, weighing up different potential career paths, or even considering a career change, this podcast aims to answer some of your questions about how you actually get into the industry.

Jane is joined by director of people and planning Rebecca Williams and PR director Sam Brown to explain what working in PR really looks like - from getting your foot in the door to where it can take you - sharing advice and practical tips to take away.

If you're fascinated by the topics that get the marketing world talking, make sure you don't miss an episode of What's Got the World Talking?

Web: www.wpragency.co.uk/podcast

YouTube: WPR Podcast - YouTube

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SPEAKER_03

Obviously, summer's coming up. A lot of people are going to be graduating this summer or finishing school, college, whatever. What are your top tips for anyone that's now heard about PR and wants to uh consider a career now? Where do they where do they even begin?

SPEAKER_02

I worked with um Lewis Hamilton and did. I did God.

SPEAKER_01

Lewis Hamilton. From Lewis Hamilton to Ryland.

SPEAKER_02

So if you don't go to university or you're not privileged enough to go to university, it's a career that you'll just never know existed, essentially. You might know journalism, you might know marketing, but you wouldn't not understand that there's a middleman to get people in the media coverage is the best part of the job, it is. Yeah, and when even better if like family or friends say to you, Oh, did you see that campaign? That was ours! That was us. That was our idea. At the moment, you know, a lot of people apply for jobs, they just send their CV via email. So it's really, really easy to stand out if you just put the phone call in. If you, like you say, put a video, if you send a poem. This is what sounded.

SPEAKER_03

Welcome to What's Got the World Talking. In this episode, we're turning our attention to a topic close to our hearts: careers in PR and communications and how you actually get into the industry. As someone who's been working in this industry for decades, I can vouch for the fact that it offers an incredibly varied and rewarding career. But we know many people either don't know about the opportunities of PR comms or social media or don't consider it a possible route for them for any number of reasons. We also know that right now, finding and securing that all-important first role can feel really daunting. So whether you're finishing exams this summer, weighing up your next steps, or even contemplating a career change, we're going to explain what working PR really looks like, getting your foot in the door to where it can take you. I'm joined by our director of People and Planning, Rebecca Williams, and PR Director Sam Brown. We've all taken different routes into the industry and have different career experiences. So we'll share our advice and hopefully some practical tips to take away. So welcome. I think for the first time on the podcast for both of you. Yeah. Yeah. We want to start by introducing yourselves. Yep, so I'm Bex. I'm director of people and planning.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm Sam. I'm one of the PR directors on the consumer team.

SPEAKER_03

Brilliant. And it's a it's a podcast of the difference for us today, um, because we're gonna we're gonna discuss all things breaking into the the PR and comms industry. Um start by setting the scene for someone who's never come across our industry before. What does, I know it's a huge question, what does a career in PR and comms entail? What does a day look like?

SPEAKER_02

I think it's uh it's really varied. So uh our ultimate aim in PR is getting our clients in the media for a positive reason. And so it's lots of creative ideation. It's then creating the assets that go with that, so writing the press releases, commissioning the the photography, but perhaps um some uh videography to go with it, and then it's dealing with the media, so pitching to the media to persuade them to cover your story, reporting back to your clients or stakeholders, and then evaluating the success of your work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of hard work, it's a lot of fun, it's definitely a lot of fun. Every day is different in PR, certainly in a PR agency as well. So one day you might be talking to the media, you might be writing press releases, the next day you might be doing filming with the one show in this morning. So yeah, it's a lot of a lot of work, but a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I remember I think it was my dad who said to me you should consider, I wanted to be a journalist so very, very much. And he said you should consider a a career in PR. I was like, what on earth is that? And I think he said advertising is controlling what you say about yourself, PR is controlling what other people say about you, which I think explains it very nicely, actually. There is a lot of similarities but differences too, aren't there?

unknown

Definitely.

SPEAKER_03

So we've all had really different roots into the industry. Tell me about yours and how you ended up here today.

SPEAKER_02

Well, interesting, you said about wanting to be a journalist because I was exactly the same. Um, I was 15 in year 10, going off on work experience, and I wanted to go and work at the local paper, along with about 50 other students that also wanted the same thing. So I was placed in the press and PR department of the fire station instead, and absolutely loved it. You know, we had journalists phoning us on the hour every hour, finding out what was going on. Um, and that opened my eyes to a career in PR.

SPEAKER_01

Mine's really different. As a lot of people know, um, I used to be a teacher, as we know, um, and I was teaching PR, I was teaching about it. And the more I was teaching about public relations and the media, the more I was thinking actually, do you know what? I really want to be part of the media. I don't want to teach about it, I want to do it. Um, and so yeah, in my in my teaching holidays, um, got some work experience at WPR.

SPEAKER_03

So it's a brave move for you to kind of go from one industry into another that I get there are similarities you were teaching the subject, but it's still really different, I'm sure, teaching to working for clients and having a career in PR.

SPEAKER_01

And yet, very much the same as well, Jane, for sure, because there are, yeah, there's a lot of similarities between the two. Um, I think at the core of both of them is just relationships and nurturing the best relationships, whether it's with clients, whether it's with journalists, that's how you get the most results. But I think my decision to change career is quite reflective of young, younger generations. Um, I think when you leave school now, unlike a few years ago, you've kind of got to pick a career and pick a job and set that in stone and then work your way up the ladder within that, within that industry. And actually now, I think certainly looking at a good few of my friends, they change careers and they make different switches and and chop and change. And I think, yeah, that is reflective.

SPEAKER_03

So people often say they fell into a career in PR. Why do you think it is that people find out about PR career accidentally or later on in life? We're not promoting it enough as an industry.

SPEAKER_02

Uh, I think there's a statistic that the a really high percentage of people get only find out about PR as a career once they're at university. So if you don't go to university or you're not privileged enough to go to university, um, then you you yeah, it's a career that you'll just never know existed essentially. Um, you might know journalism, you know, you might know marketing, but you would might not understand that there's a that whole kind of middleman then to get people in the media. Uh, and so we're doing a lot of work. I mean, the there's a lot of work going on in the industry as a whole to raise awareness of PR as a career to people at a younger age. Um, and we've got an employee partnership with a local secondary school to try and spread awareness of of PR amongst you know, year seven to year 11 uh pupils so that you you're getting that diversity of applications and of young people entering PR at a younger age.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think that was definitely, I mean, it was obviously quite a few years ago now that I first went out about PR, but again, it was at university. And I remember going to speak to the careers advisor about it. He laughed in my face when I said I wanted a career in PR and said, you and everybody else. Yeah. So I thought, am I just completely wasting my time here or should I press on? And thank goodness I did not listen to him. And I just pressed on. So obviously, summer's coming up. A lot of people are going to be graduating this summer or finishing school, college, whatever. What are your top tips for anyone that's now heard about PR and wants to uh consider a career now? Where do they where do they even begin?

SPEAKER_02

I think you start by immersing yourself in the industry. So you you know you start reading PR Week, you sign up to PR Moment, you start following the agencies that you you've heard of on social media, you know, you read the news sections of their websites, just really understand what PR is and what agencies and brands are doing in that space. I think that's the first place to start. Um, experience is obviously what everybody wants, but it's really hard to get. Um, but there are more and more agencies that are offering perhaps like an open day or um a little bit of a training course, that kind of thing. We've got our next gen scheme, um, but opportunities are really limited. So you need to be out there and applying for it well in advance.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think take that curiosity to the media. So really studying and looking at different platforms that are emerging, what's happening in the news, what are the three big stories of the day. I think when you start to sort of see what is happening in the media and start sort of putting together the narrative of how the media is formed, um, you grow a curiosity and a love for it. And I think if you can sort of nurture that curiosity throughout all of your career, you'll go very, very far.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. There's no escaping the fact that it's all over the news at the moment, just how hard it is for young people looking to enter the workforce today. And I think our sector's always been particularly competitive. What do employers most look out for when they're interviewing somebody at a post-school, college, university level?

SPEAKER_02

I think it's it's experience, and it doesn't have to be experience by going in and spending a week or two weeks or six months with an agency. I think you know you can find opportunities, uh, create your own blog, create your own social profile, you know, to use Canva and get a really compelling TikTok following going. I think if you've got friends that are setting up startups, offer to do their social media, offer to put write them in press releases. I think there's loads of ways that you can put your skills to the test, create a portfolio without actually having to go out and get, you know, the conventional work experience.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I think when you're applying for any sort of creative role in the comms industry, I think you need to showcase your creativity and your character. And I think really bring that character through in every form of your application. So, you know, like Beck said, whether it's creating a vlog for your um your application, whether it's creating a website, you know, showcase your character because I think it's your character in PR world which goes a very, very long way.

SPEAKER_02

And I think at the moment, you know, a lot of people apply for jobs, they just send their CV via email. So it's really, really easy to stand out if you just put a phone call in. If you, like you say, create a video, if you send a poem. This is what sounded.

SPEAKER_01

Which I've got on my phone. I've forgotten that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you kept it brilliant.

SPEAKER_01

I've got it in my phone. I can read it out if we want to. No. Um, yeah, I'll read it out.

SPEAKER_02

Lovely.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I won't.

SPEAKER_02

It's an unexpected surprise.

SPEAKER_01

I I definitely won't read it all.

SPEAKER_02

But when where you have 200 applications for a job, a poem just stands out. It just it's really refreshing as a recruiter, somebody that's recruiting, to see that, it just makes you stand out.

SPEAKER_01

So I said back in 2021, hello, I'm Sam. I'm a recent PR graduate eager to join the profession with an agency full of creativity, success, and plenty of progression. I recently discovered your consumer executive role, which for a recent graduate has become my number one goal: an opportunity to join an award-winning agency. Sign me up, let me fill your vacancy.

SPEAKER_03

It's no wonder we gave you the job.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks both.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks. New is the star then. I feel a disappointment to myself now because I didn't I didn't do a poem.

SPEAKER_02

I once um rolled up my TV, put it in a milk bottle, and sent it uh to an agency and it was a really competitive agency. It got me an interview. Did it get you the job? Well, it did, but I had to move to London and I decided it wasn't ready. It's a bit of a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01

But oh and it's not just like being, you know, clever with words, it's like if you're into design, you know, make the design and the branding of your CV the same as the agency that you're applying for. You know, there's different ways that you can showcase a little bit of flair and thinking a little bit more outside the box. Um, certainly.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, but I think the other stuff still counts as well, doesn't it? I remember I when I thought I'd be a journalist, but wasn't quite sure. When I was at university, I wrote for my university newspaper. I think now you can volunteer to help look after the student union social media accounts, etc. There's lots of other ways, aren't there, that you can just start to build your portfolio of experience up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that's not just the kind of getting your portfolio as well, but it's showing that you're you're proactive, that you're you're passionate, that you're interested in things outside of work and education, which is something we always look for when we're recruiting as well. So, do you have to have a degree to get a job in PR and absolutely not? No, we are we don't ask for any qualifications at all. You know, you yes, you need to be good at writing and spelling and grammar, but more important is somebody that's kind of really curious and creative and really kind of personable because you know if if you meet somebody and you they're just easy to talk to and quite affable, you know that they'll get on with your clients and colleagues as well as well. And that that goes a long way in PR.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. I think it comes down to, and I know I said it just before, but it comes down to your character, and we can't teach character. We can teach how to write press releases, we can teach how to to sell into the media, but can we teach how to communicate and liaise with clients and build those client relationships and the media? That's really tricky. So kind of it almost requires being a little bit of self-reflective, you know. Is this the right industry for me? I am going to have to speak to several different people on a daily basis, and I am going to have to, you know, tailor my communication and do I have that? Can I do that? Um, is is hard. It's not for everyone.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So if you do get down the degree route, is there any degrees that you particularly like to see or don't want to see?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I don't see any any education. So when I see a CV, because because we do blind recruitment, it's all um redacted. So we don't see uh names, uh ages, date of birth, um, we don't see education, um, because that's all a privilege essentially. So we would only see a personal statement, any work experience, and any interests. That said, obviously, when people come in for an interview, we'll naturally talk about their education. Um, personally, I think, you know, art subjects that you when you're used to doing a lot of writing, uh, I think that that comes in handy with PR. There's a lot, a lot of writing. Um, but equally, we've got people upstairs that have got maths, science degrees, you know. I think actually sort of those engineering subjects sometimes might lend you quite nicely to a career in B2B PR.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I absolutely I think it always used to be the humanitism that gets you in, but our job is so varied now. So a lot of our social team needs to be really good at interpreting data. So having a good understanding in math is really important. Yeah, and a lot of the B2B team, we're writing about complex STEM subjects, so an understanding of science subjects is really helpful. So I think from our perspective, it's having people that have got a wide breadth of expertise.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think here we all share very similar values, but we're all very different people with very different backgrounds, and that's that's what you need really to be able to represent a broad range of clients.

SPEAKER_03

So we talked about a lot about the experience that you need. What skills do you need, do you think, to break into the industry and succeed to fly in the industry?

SPEAKER_01

I'd say confidence. And I think confidence is a skill that's really hard, um, but it's one which, if you've got it, nurture it. As I said before, you know, you might be delivering a lecture to students, you might be talking to clients, pitching for a new brief, um, pitching for a new client, etc. And I think that that's that is certainly a skill that if you can if you know how to nurture relationships and you know how to get the best out of people and tailor your communication depending on who it is that you're talking to, I think that goes a really, really long way.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I I mean it's an obvious one you're working in communications, but good communication is is essential. So it kind of ties into to confidence, but you know, being able to write confidently, to pitch confidently, to to build relationships and just yeah, that kind of verbal and written communication is essential.

SPEAKER_03

And I think I'd add creativity to the mix with that one because at the end of the day, we're problem solving for clients. It could just be that they need to find a new way to engage with their audiences or ways to break into the media. And there often isn't just an obvious answer, is that you sort of think we've got to think outside the box, come up with a creative campaign, a really compelling TikTok, etc. You've got to be able to think outside the box, which I think is where I think we've discussed it already, where cure curiosity comes into the mix as well.

SPEAKER_02

And that's the fun bit of the job, isn't it? It's all fun, but it is yeah, you know, it's the sort of thing you people overhear you and go, is that is that what you do?

SPEAKER_03

Is that a job? So Sam, uh you came from from teaching.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And aside from being a really good poet, what other skills did you gain and develop in your teaching career that you bought into PR?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I would say, and this is a bit of a strange one, but owning the room and being able to command the room and really own that space and all the people within it, I think um goes a long way because teachers every day you're talking to, you know, an audience in front of you of 30 snotty kids, and actually, you know, that is a quite a challenging audience in front of you, and you've got to tailor, I've said it before, but you've got to tailor your communication depending on which age you're talking to. Like how I spoke to year seven was extremely different to how I spoke to year 12 or year 11 and so on and so forth. And that is very much put me in good stead, I think, for agency, where you can go from one client call in one sector to another client call in the next, and tailoring that communication depending on the personality and the vibe, I guess, of the clients, because you've got to, yeah, you've got to change your communication accordingly. Um, and there are loads of similarities. I think the the big thing, we've spoken about it already, but is the transferable skills. I think it's great if you can source that PR experience from previous agencies. But there's one thing from my teaching career, it's it's that transferable skills in terms of the confidence in the classroom, it's the confidence in front of clients. Um, even things like marking students' homework is very, very similar to marking and amending press releases. Um, so yeah, there's there's loads of different ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting. So someone's listening to this, watching this, and they think, yeah, I'm interested in learning more about PR and comms. What does, I know we've already said there is no typical day, what does a typical-ish day look like in this in this industry?

SPEAKER_01

Speaking to the media first and foremost. So it might be writing press releases, drafting those press releases, getting it through approvals with the client, um, and then once that's been signed off, really selling that press release into journalists, into um broadcasters and producers and so on and so forth. And I think if you're a PR person and you've gone a day without talking to a journalist, I don't think you've done the job right. I think every single day is talking to some form of the media for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's it's a real variety. You know, you probably come in in the morning, you check what's going on in the news, look for opportunities for your clients, you know, what can we jump on and what can we react to? What competitors are in the news that we need to flag to our clients. And then you're straight into checking your the coverage that's come in overnight, you know, what have we got? Again, flagging that to your clients so you're the first person to tell them because they're going to want to send it on internally. Uh, and then it's getting into the into the job. So you might be, you might have a client meeting, you might have a shoot, uh, you might have a bit of time to get your head into maybe writing a press release or a feature. Then as Sam says, it's it's speaking to the media and depending on which media you're speaking to, it that will depend on the time that you're phoning. You know, if you're pitching a big national story, you're you're at your desk for eight o'clock and you know, getting on the phones or sending out the emails before the editorial meetings at 8:30. Um, and then yeah, interspersed with team brainstorms, client catch-ups, internal team catch-ups, uh reporting. Yeah, I was about to say there is some non-glamorous work to be done as well.

SPEAKER_03

A lot of reporting is not enough that you first start out.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you need to evaluate the you know the success of your coverage and the campaigns you're working on and what's what's going well and what could be.

SPEAKER_03

It's a lot of coverage to evaluate as well.

SPEAKER_02

It's a good thing. Yeah. So it's yeah, it it it's almost like a full circle. You know, you you you you come up with your idea, you you create your collateral, you sell it into the media, you get your results, you evaluate your results, come up with what could have we done, what could we do better next time, or what worked really, really well, and then go again for a different client, a different product, a different campaign.

SPEAKER_01

And it is incredibly rewarding as well, because when you see your idea go from you know, a brainstorm and it's translated into being signed off and then into an article or into a campaign, and that's suddenly on TV or it's in a national newspaper, and you just know how many eyes are going to be on the screen or reading it, it is incredibly, incredibly rewarding.

SPEAKER_02

Coverage is the best part of the job, it is, isn't it? Yeah, and when even better if like family or friends say to you, Oh, did you see that campaign? Yeah, that was ours. That was us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that was us.

SPEAKER_03

That was our idea. Yeah, that is really true. I'm conscious that we've talked a lot about PR and comms from an agency perspective. What do you think are the big biggest differences between working in-house or agency side?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think less fun, if I'm allowed to say that. Um, I think in house is very much kind of um you work at you well, you get to know the brand much better and you get to know the business much better and really get under the skin, which we do obviously in an agency, but we're working with a diverse portfolio. Um It's probably a smaller team than an agency as well. Um, so a much smaller team. Um, but I think the fundamentals are the same. You're still writing press releases on behalf of uh the brand or the the business and talking to the media accordingly. You might be liaising and working with an agency, in which case you've got that kind of more management level role. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, like you say, I think you get under the skin of the organization that you're in a lot more, and you probably have a uh wider exposure to broader marketing potentially, because you might be the one PR person or one of a couple, but you're working with the CRM person, the the brand guardian, um, you know, all the all the different elements, social media manager, that kind of thing. So you I think yeah, you would have a broader understanding of marketing as a whole, but you'd be less of a PR specialist and fewer people to learn from. And that's why potentially you'd bring in an agency um to work with them more closely to support you from a capacity point of view, or um just to bring in specialisms that potentially you don't have in-house.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So it's often said that PR, in particular PR and comm, social media, it's all it's a very fast-paced environment. Firstly, do you agree with that? And secondly, how do you help newcomers to the industry embrace that rather than be overdaunted by it?

SPEAKER_02

I think it it is fast-paced because we're working with the media and working on social media, it's it's 24 hours a day, it doesn't stop. And that doesn't mean we don't we don't stop for 20 24 hours a day. But you know, if a crisis breaks um or I don't know, there's something reactive in the news that you could jump on for your clients, you need time is of the essence, and essentially the brand that reacts the quickest will get the results and will get the coverage. Um, I think for new starters, the biggest challenge is the multitasking, particularly in agency, because you're trying to think of all these things, but you've potentially got five clients that you need to be thinking of for all of them at the same time. And also you're just your to-do n you never come to the end of your to-do list because there's always another journalist you could speak to, there's always another media opportunity you could target, there's always, you know, another reactive you could suggest. So um it is helping people to prioritize, but just understand there's always more you could do.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, and then like you said, Bex, like the media doesn't switch off, it's always going on, and that doesn't mean we need to be, you know, 24-7 watching it, but we do need to know what the top headlines of the day are going to be.

SPEAKER_03

So can you remember a moment early on in your career when you thought, This is why I love my job?

SPEAKER_02

I can. So one of my first clients was the British Army, which was a bit of a gift. Um, but we wanted to make it seem more accessible, so we put journalists through the selection process. So we did a journalist challenge and we got them down to the to the local barracks, and they had to do the timed run and the obstacle course and all of that. Stop with the faint hearted. It was brilliant though. Journalists loved it, gave them brilliant content, and I was there with them, you know, in my camos, upselling down a wall with the likes of Phil Mackey and Raj Merchandani. Like, and I was, I think I was an exec, I was probably a year or two in my into my career, and I thought, this is brilliant.

SPEAKER_01

I remember writing in my first few months about a uh butler in the buff in a care home, and it made its way onto Good Morning Britain. I think they had a butler in the buff in the studio as part of the the part of the story, just to amplify it. And I remember at the time thinking, oh my god, Ben Shepherd and Kate Garraway are reading my my story, like that's my story. And these are like TV presenters that I'd grew up watching, like GMTV, and I was like, that is the most bizarre thing ever. But so, like we said, like when you see the coverage and you think how many people are watching it or reading it, yeah, huge.

SPEAKER_03

I think mine was similar. Mine was I worked on the launch of uh Bull Ring, and Trevor MacDonald, younger viewers and listeners were gonna have to Google Trevor MacDonald, but he was, well, silly as he was still alive, a true legend, but he was talking about my clients, and I was like, this is it, this is why I went into this career. So, what are the career progression opportunities for people entering the industry today?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think it offers, I think PR and social offers just, you know, a real, real clear um career path. You know, in an agency, it's really clear-cut, isn't it? You go from you know exec to manager to director, um, and you can look to be as broad or a specialist as you like. You know, here we offer PR routes and social routes, but actually we also offer a client service director, which would be an integrated um an integrated role that would encompass all lots of different disciplines. I think it's the same in-house, you know, you can start off as a comms or marketing and specialise, go, you know, specialise into PR. Alternatively, you can start as a specialist and take it, take it more broad.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And with and then within like um both um agency and in-house, there's whether you want to go down the consumer route or whether you want to go down the B2B route. I think that again comes back to what we were saying earlier about sort of matching it to your to your personality. But yeah, there's loads of different routes to take.

SPEAKER_03

And how fast can this career progression be? What can people realistically expect? How long till you get to PR director or board director?

SPEAKER_02

Uh well, I would say, well, Sam, you've had a really fast trajectory, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01

Thank you both.

SPEAKER_02

But how long did it take you to go from junior to director?

SPEAKER_01

Started in May 21 and then became a PR director in November 25.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah. That's not too shabby, is it? I mean, that's really quick quick and that's quite rare. But I think probably exector director is normally about six, seven, eight years, depending on how ambitious somebody is and yeah, and how fast they fly.

SPEAKER_03

But there's yeah, we have so many job titles and changes and frequent promotions in our industry. Just run through what those all all look like and the differences between those roles.

SPEAKER_02

So you'll start as a as an exec, so that's PR or social executive, and that is, you know, doing everything from the press release writing to pitching to the media to doing your reporting, a little bit of client uh liaison, but probably not a great deal. And then you'd go from exec to senior exec. Senior exec is doing everything an exec does, but also taking responsibility for smaller clients or uh smaller campaigns, moving up to manager. So here you would be the main client contact across your accounts, um, still doing writing and media liaison as well, but also starting to pitch for new business, write proposals, review documents, um, and then from there you go to senior manager, where you then will take ownership for leading smaller clients or bigger campaigns, and then up to director. So this is where Sam is at the moment, and this is where you've got overall responsibility for your portfolio. You are, you know, the book stops with you for results, for proposals, um, for review documents, keeping your clients happy.

SPEAKER_01

That's like a big gulp then.

SPEAKER_02

No pressure. Um, and then from there you go up to senior director, which again just take all of the director responsibilities, but also taking on um uh responsibility for new business and probably for leadership within the agency as well. And from there, it's associate director, where you lead a team of directors in a certain part of the business, and then your final step is it's board director.

SPEAKER_03

I think you answer that question beautifully because there are just so many steps. I know answering that. And so many different jobs available within an agency. I think that's yeah, well done. 10 out of 10 for that one. And what should people both look for and expect and and ask for in terms of support from their employers to help them climb that ladder as quickly but realistically as possible?

SPEAKER_02

I think clear expectations are really important. So, you know, we have career paths for every single level within the agency, which is why I was able to reel them off so easily. Um, but it's you know, it doesn't have to be a four-page job description. We have about six bullet points per level, and it just sets out real clear expectations for each level. And, you know, we have coaching catch-ups every eight weeks with line managers, and it's uh at those coaching check-ins that people run through, you know, okay, this is your job, and these are the expectations. Brilliant, you're smashing it, right? Are you ambitious? Do you want to progress? If so, brilliant. Let's look at the next level up. What do you need to be doing to get there? And it's giving real clear, actionable feedback and coaching to get there because there's only so much that the individual can do. They need to be enabled by the business. So, you know, it might be right, you need some experience in new business. So the next pitch we have in, we're going to give you some research, and then we're going to let you attend the pitch, and then we're going to let you lead the pitch and just giving people those opportunities so they can be ticking off what the what's on the next career path to progress.

SPEAKER_03

And as somebody who has climbed the ranks really quickly here, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given to accelerate your progression?

SPEAKER_01

I said it earlier, but I think show off your character at every step and and don't be afraid to sort of um hide your character in any way. I think sometimes people see sort of corporate roles or corporate, like the corporate world and think that they have to be a little bit, a little bit serious and a little bit formal, and and actually I think bring that human touch at every single level and showcase your character in your work as well. You know, showcase what like be, I suppose, like bring a little bit of your personality and your flair into your your your comms and your press release writing, etc.

SPEAKER_03

What about you? Best piece of advice you've received along the way.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I think you've got to say yes to everything. Just give everything a go and try your best. I remember joining wasn't here, but I remember joining another, remember my first week in another role, and um I think I was a new manager, and somebody said, right, are you um you okay to go on a media tour next week? You can lead the media tour. And I thought, I've never done a media tour before, but yeah, I can do a media tour. How hard can it be? And I went down, met all these journalists. It might not have been a conventional media tour, I have no idea. But that's how I did it. I got the results, and you know, nobody knew otherwise.

SPEAKER_03

That's the only way that you can learn. Yeah. I think mine was own it. Don't, don't to your boss, don't just take problems, go with solutions. Well, the solutions might not be the right ones, but at least it shows that you've you've thought about it and you're committed to your own career progression.

SPEAKER_01

And be ambitious as well, I think. Like bring that ambition to everything. So, okay, we got 40 pieces last month. Well, now I want to get 50. Like that mentality and that mindset of I need to always exceed and always be better, definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We've talked a little bit about improving, I suppose, awareness of PR and comms as a career. I think we've touched slightly on what we're doing around um improving access and increasing diversity within the industry, an industry that's typically not diverse enough. Why do you think well, can you kind of recap on what we're doing around those themes and why you think it's so important that we do have diversity of thought within an agency?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, absolutely. So as I said earlier, we are trying to raise awareness of PR as a career to people at younger age. So we've got a partnership with um a local secondary school. We go in at least once a year. Um, we host things like mock interviews, their year eight um Careers Day. We have um groups of students in here to do work experience. So every single year within that secondary school will come across WPR and PR more broadly at least once a year throughout their entire school career. So when they leave school at 16 or 18, everybody in that school should know what PR is. We also work with charities like Taylor Bennett Foundation and 10,000 Black Interns to deliver masterclasses and also um host internships. So 50% of our internships go to 10,000 black interns automatically. Um and I think I mean it's it's so important. We need to improve the diversity of the industry.

SPEAKER_01

I think whether we like it or not, like we have unconscious bias, don't we? Like we all have, we've had training on it. And I think that only when you have that diverse workforce that we've said and that diverse community can actually that sometimes unconscious bias, you know, it can be called out. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And it's not just, you know, um, it's not just ethnic diversity as well, you know, we need to think about neurodiversity, we need to think about parents in the workplace and enabling them because everybody has got a story to tell and and an opinion to give, and they're all really valuable. And it's only by listening to a diverse team that we'll be able to produce work that appeals to a diverse audience.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, it's it's against the law to do a podcast on PR and comms without mentioning AI. Um what does the future look like for people entering the industry now? To what extent can their jobs be done by AI? Are there still opportunities out there? And how is AI fitting into the more junior roles within the industry?

SPEAKER_02

I think at the minute what we say is we don't use AI to create um content, and so we ask that certainly when people are applying for jobs here, we ask that they don't either, but we understand they might want to use it to refine their work, and that's okay. Um, I think as we've talked about, like those communication skills, those interpersonal skills um with clients and the media are what really stands out and what makes for a really good PR or social person. Um, and that can't be done by AI, it's relationships, and I think COVID potentially has weakened that, diluted that for a while. We went from in-person meetings and socials to doing everything on Teams. And I feel like AI is going to bring it perhaps not full circle, but back to a certain amount where actually people need those human relationships, and that's what clients will look for. Certainly we know it's not the media one after they've been stung by all the AI experts. So I think it's that's that's some things that cannot ever, I hope, be taken by AI.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd agree. I think there's a lot of admin in PR, isn't there? There's a lot of um, you know, collater media lists and reporting and evaluating. And I think AI can drive some of those efficiencies and really take us back, I guess, to what the core of PR is all about, as Bex, you've just said, which is relationships and bringing that human touch. And I think if we can take that time that is has been spent on, you know, lengthy evaluations and collating, you know, reports, etc., and put that back into media relations and getting back out there and meeting journalists and you know, liaising with clients, etc., again, it's putting relationships at the forefront. So I'm excited.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Hopefully, it will be less admin focused roles for people joining the industry and more of those really proactive, exciting parts of the job that that we love so much.

SPEAKER_02

And creativity as well. You know, that's AI can't produce original content, you know, any it will never come up with a new creative idea. And that's that's the real exciting part of our job, as we said earlier. You know, when you land on that idea in a brainstorm that you just know is going to be perfect and it's gonna fly. And AI isn't capable of doing that. And if anyone relies on AI to come up with creative ideas, well, they'll be going into a pitch with the same ideas as the next agency. So it's that original thought that AI can't rival.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I agree with all that. So as we start to round up the podcast, we're going to ask you some random questions. I really like the questions, so I might answer some of them myself as well and cheat. Um, but just to help give people a flavour of what it's like to work in PR and comms. So, question one, what's the most unusual thing you've ever done for work or at work?

SPEAKER_01

I turned an Airbnb into a WKD B and B. Um so there was more bottles of WKD in that Airbnb than I think there was in a pub. Um, yeah, that was pretty bonkers.

SPEAKER_03

I remember that one. Yeah. That was good.

SPEAKER_01

That was a good thing.

SPEAKER_03

That was quite early on in your career, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01

It was very early on. And again, remember thinking, I'm being paid to do this, this is insane.

SPEAKER_02

Um we've already done the um ab sailing with journalists, so I made a journalist live in an eight um eight-foot aluminium cube for 24 hours on a car park in Birmingham, um, and it got BBC breakfast.

SPEAKER_03

Oh wow. Mine was selling a night, well, 24 hours at Warwick Castle, exclusive access on eBay for I think it was £25,000. What a bargain. Yeah, it was, but it went like we knew it was a good idea, we liked it, thought this is gonna get some nice coverage. It literally went international. We had coverage in Australia, America, people just came mad for exclusive access to this castle. It was one of those like, this is my job, this is a bit crazy. Do you have a standout pinch me moment from your career?

SPEAKER_02

I worked with um Lewis Hamilton. I did. Yeah, I did a day in your life a day in his life um with Vicky Bellahenson from Fifth Gear, and we we followed him around um the festival that I was PRing all day. It was great.

SPEAKER_01

Lewis Hamilton, from Lewis Hamilton to Rylan. Um last yeah, last year it was the 80th anniversary of V E Day, and ever since I joined, um I joined KUK, which is Care Home Um account, and always wanted my ambition was always to get care home residents onto the This Morning sofa. And for the 80th anniversary of V E Day, we managed to do that, and we were all invited down to the studio um and yeah, had a little bit of a cameo um on the on the TV because they suddenly asked us at the very last minute, can you fill the seats behind Emma, uh Emma and Rylan? And um, yeah, did so that was a proper pinch me moment. I was like, I'm literally on TV now.

SPEAKER_02

I remember us, we were all watching in the office.

SPEAKER_03

We were all watching. Uh what myth or misconception about working in PR would you most like to bust?

SPEAKER_02

I think that it's you know that it's all about contacts. You just phone someone up and they'll they'll run any story for you. I think it's so much harder than that these days. It might have been like that once upon a time, but journalists now they are up against it with their, you know, their click-through rates and their dwell times. They are not going to run a story unless it's unless it's really good, no matter how much they like you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. My misconception would be that it's just words and no numbers, and that you just need a general maths because there's a lot of maths, there's a lot of numbers in PR as well. There's a lot of like, you know, whether it's budgets or whether it's um coverage figures and estimated views, etc., there's quite a lot of numbers and maths involved. Um, not that you need to be super brainy at it, but you do need some maths knowledge.

SPEAKER_03

Mind that it's all it's just all glamorous. I think it's a point you make that we just go out for lovely lunches with journalists and just one around events. But the reality is that if there is an event, you're probably gonna be the person that's unstacking and stacking the chairs up and ticking people off an entry list. You know, it's not all glamorous, it is incredibly rewarding, but there's a lot of hard work that goes on behind the scenes as as well. Summit working in PR in three words. Oh, that's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_01

Go on, Bex.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I've got three. Um, unpredictable, unconventional, but unrivaled. Oh you've practiced that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's a good alliteration.

SPEAKER_02

I work in PR though.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I'm gonna try and do one off the top of my head. Uh, busy, it's always busy, it's never not busy. Um, bonkers, it can be completely barking bonkers. Um I can't think of another B. Brilliant. Brilliant, yeah. It is just a brilliant um job and it's a brilliant industry to be part of. And I think it's it's so much fun when you see your your work being consumed out there in the news, and it's so diverse as well. You know, you can have your story on loose women, you can have it on BBC Breakfast, you can um have it in tomorrow's newspapers, and that sort of control and that power and that magic that comes with all of those views on it, there is nothing like that out there. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And if you could uh give your younger self one piece of advice, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01

Mine would be have fun and don't worry about sticking to one thing because actually careers are very long things and you can chop and change and move about and change if you want to. That's not a problem.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I agree. And I'd also say, yeah, have fun definitely up there and network as well. But I think I've had a you know, I've my whole career's been in agencies, and I think I've probably been guilty of being really competitive against other agencies, but actually, it's a great community, the the PR community. It's just everyone's championing everyone else, everyone's looking for opportunities, everyone's looking to upskill. Um, so I think you know, you go out there and you there's there's charities, there's committees, there's organizations that you know you you can get involved with and just build your network of of other PRs near you.

SPEAKER_03

That's lovely. Um, what if you could give one piece of advice to somebody starting out the industry this summer, what would it be and why?

SPEAKER_02

Just consume as much media as you can, just understand what makes a story. If you see a you know a brand in in the news, understand why it's in there. Why is a journalist printed that? What why is that interesting? I think if you can understand what the media are looking for, that will get you a real head start.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, completely agree. Consume every bit of media. And I am going to quote Shakespeare, I'm gonna put my English cap hat teacher back on, whatever it is, and I'm gonna say to thine own self, be true and just be true to yourself when you're applying for roles and bring out your character certainly in PR because it's your character and your personality that goes a very, very long way.

SPEAKER_03

Right, those are just wonderful, perfect words to end the podcast episode. So thank you both very, very much for your time and good luck to everyone who's looking to start their careers this summer. Good luck.

SPEAKER_01

Good luck.