An awakening with Dr Lorna Busch

Welcome to my podcast, Finding Balance in Menopause. I am a social worker, yoga therapist and women in Peri-menopause. This is the first of my podcasts and in this one and future  podcasts we will talk about all things Menopause including my experience and those of my guests. If there's something you want to know about, and I will try my best to find someone with whom to have the conversation. I can be reached at closedlotusyt@gmail.com.

In this episode I interview my friend and Psychologist Dr. Lorna Busch, of MindTrove healing, a licensed psychologist who specializes in ketamine assisted psychotherapy. She is a certified Spiritual Emergence Coach and uses Quantum Healing Hypnosis to help people connect and align with the highest version of themselves. Join us as we talk about Menopause, both of our experiences with it and how other cultures celebrate the wise woman who emerges with this life changing transition. Learn how to move into your second half of life in a positive way that focuses on thriving not just surviving. 

Contact Dr Lorna Busch at mindtrovehealing.com or Lorna@mindtrovehealing.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Let's get into our episode. So, Dr. Lorna Bush is a licensed psychologist with a passion for supporting people through transformational growth in the face of personal crisis and life transitions. She specializes in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, helping clients go deep within to heal core wounds, many of whom are women and are in the process of returning to themselves after living out of alignment with their true nature. She values the wisdom found in different cultures. And Lorna recently traveled to Brazil to learn about psychiatric treatments at Spiritus Hospital, hospita, hospitals and centers. She's certified, a certified spiritual emergence coach through the Integrative Mental Health University and offers quantum healing hypnosis to help people connect and align with the highest version of themselves. And she is also just an amazing person, mother, wife. And I'll turn it over to her to give a little more context about her experience and how it interacts with what we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Thanks, Jill. And thanks for having me on your podcast. And I must say that you're one of the amazing women that I've met along my path. And for those listening, I met Jill through going to one of her sessions and having a session with her, which was highly valuable to help me to connect with my embodied wisdom along my journey. So we'll talk a little bit more about why that's important and how that's important. With everything that I do that Jill had mentioned, there's so much overlapping themes there with people going through spiritual emergence. They are sometimes what feels like a breakdown, they're going through a breakthrough. It's a transition into returning back to their authentic selves rather than the one that was constructed through our roles and our masks and societal belief systems and all of that. So that's another transition that's very natural to go through. And in our Western world, these transitions have gotten a bit medicalized. So instead of seeing things as a natural process, we see them as a medical issue to be treated. So that's something that relates to menopause and perimenopause as well that I'm seeing. And with the psychedelic assisted psychotherapy and integration that I do in those uh processes that people go through when they commune with those medicines that people have done for, you know, as long as humanity has been here, right? There's been communion with plant medicines. They support a process of our own evolution. And so that's not necessarily a medical thing, you know. So we see it in the medical world as something that's a medical treatment, so to speak. Uh, when people do engage in that process and it brings them to an expanded state, oftentimes they come in contact with authenticity and truths that can't be ignored anymore. Um, another way of saying that is they're looking at their shadow. So shadow work is a big part of this process and a big part of what a lot of women are doing in perimenopause and the menopausal phase of their lives. So I support them through that process. And I, with my travels to um Central and South America and going to Brazil and learning at spiritist hospitals and centers, just getting a wider lens and perspective of these different transitions we go through in life. What we might view as pathology in our society is viewed differently in other cultures. And they're seen as just ways of natural ways of responding, of going through different transitions or stressors. So um, yeah, so that's a little bit about me, and I'm excited to delve more into the topic. Thanks, Jill.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah, yeah. So, Lorna, what was your experience like in perimenopause, menopause?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Uh, so initially something similar to yours, where uh there's the surprise factor and being kind of confused about the, you know, what we call symptoms are coming up. So I was initially approaching it at that lens and talking to others, and we're also confused about what's happening with our bodies. And I was also, you know, in a phase of my life where in this culture, career is very important. So it becomes a nuisance to try and be full force into our career and being a mother. It's my most important role I'll have in this lifetime, is being a mom. And we're trying to mitigate symptoms or minimize them so we can push through with life and what we have to do. And as my journey evolved, you know, in that process, because perimenopause is not something that just happens quickly. It's almost like this initiation into the next phase of who we're becoming. And so instead of seeing it as these symptoms that need to be suppressed, it's our body signals that we need to listen to and honor and support in a way. And when I say support, it's both the biological support, but very importantly, it's what the body's telling us about ourselves, emotional, spiritual, uh, maybe things that we really need to look at in our shadow selves. So, you know, as I was learning from other cultures, I was saying, oh, they see that differently. Um, and then I also had like phenomenal women on my path that I um learned from. And so I took this alchemy of menopause um class by Kathy Skipper. She's wonderful. So learned a lot through her. And um, you know, one of the things that struck me, you know, there was a lot of things, but one of the things that struck me is that the word menopause in the Western, you know, it's a Western cultural name. It comes from a man in a doctor who named it. And so it comes from this patriarchal culture, and it's honed in on hormonal endocrine changes of what happens. Like menopause is is technically a year from having your last menstrual period. Yeah. So, but that's all like a medical term from this male doctor, and that was just very off-putting to me. So I really wanted to explore more about what this was. Um, yeah. So even like the terms that we use for what we call symptoms, like hot flashes, right? In other cultures, that's like, okay, the fiery life force energy coming alive within us. And what is that telling us? And so that's a natural part of this process because we're shedding what we're no longer living, you know, in that um phase of life that we have. So if you look at archetypes, right, there's the the maiden, the mother, and the crone archetype. And in this culture, crone is considered something more derogatory, maybe so to speak. In other cultures, it is the wise woman. It is very much um kind of spoken with reverence and approach with reverence. And so we're the wisdom keepers. We are the ones that um nurture in a different way in our community. It's a time to slow down and be reflective. We're the healers now with all our wisdom. And in our Westel culture, you know, we're viewed as um, well, you've lost your kind of appeal as a reproductive, you know, in that mother uh archetype phase, which is not the case worldwide when you look at other cultures. So there's a value in every single phase of the woman's um kind of feminine energy, you know, who she's becoming and who she moves into. And just like we wouldn't try and medicate away a the maiden going through or the the one who's becoming a maiden going through puberty. And there's a lot that goes on with the body that's natural not to be medicated away. Same thing with um perimenopause. So back to your question, like for me, yeah. So learning about these symptoms. So some women, you know, myself included, you start you start having really heavy flow, right? Like what is going on, or like more frequent, sometimes less frequent, but it's unpredictable. So in other cultures, that's okay. The body will get will uh kind of shed things, will release things uh in ways that it's gonna get out somehow. And a lot of times this is aligns with what I do in psychedelics, listed psychotherapy, when people are in their expanded states and they're really tuned into their body and their emotion and their energy, what needs to move through will. And there's a lot of tears, you know, snot, sweat, shaking. The body is going to release what it needs to, what's been built up. So we can see the body giving us signals that there's a lot to be released, and you're finding, well, that's coming through in the flow, then maybe there's a lot to metabolize emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah. Well, and I feel like, you know, thinking about the sim, so the symptoms from a medical perspective would be um would be undesirable, but the actual what's actually happening is desirable and it's a natural part of life that that's happening.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Right. Yeah. And if you think about other cultures, they they look at that. And also if you um like if you've ever read like Louise Hay, right? Like listening to our bodies and what is that saying? So I do quantum healing hypnosis, and part of that process or is to look at what is the body been trying to tell us. So people come in with their physical ailments and they have questions for their higher selves. And some of those questions are based on, you know, relationships, some are based on career stuff, purpose in life. And then there's physical symptoms, and all might say, well, I've had, you know, this um issue with maybe it's, you know, leg pain, right? And then they find out, well, I'm not moving forward in life, I'm not taking the steps that I need in life. I've been moving in the walking in the wrong direction. And they take that information and they make changes in their lives, and they find that once they listen to the what the symptom is wanting to teach them, that no longer serves the purpose that symptom does of teaching that lesson.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah. I remember when I was first starting menopause and I would I mentioned to my Reiki person that I was feeling like a lot of anger coming up. And she would say, Well, I think the issue is is more about why are you angry? It wasn't, you know, it's not like my body's taking over and coming up with anger. It's that the anger is there. And my body's saying, Yeah, I can't hold this in anymore. We've got to deal with this anger. And so what is it that you're doing that's caught, that's what is happening in your life that's actually bringing up this symptom? Not what are, you know, not trying to manage it, but trying to deal with it, which I feel like is totally different than trying to like take a pill to resolve it. It's really about looking at life, like you're saying with the leg pain. You know, how can you eliminate the anger or really take a minute to sit with what you're feeling and let it be there? Because, you know, I was always told to like if things had to be done. So you work, you work full time, your mom, you got to come home at the end of the day, you got to make dinner, you got to show up for your family, you got to do this and that. If you can't do that, then something's wrong with you. But really, my body was like, Yeah, you can't do that anymore. Um, you need a shift, you need to be aware of the feelings that are coming up and stop and take a pause and observe them, let them release or process and then go forward with that knowledge of needing to slow down. So that's been really helpful for me to like when I'm feeling anxious or angry, to not just muddle through it, but to take a pause, tell my family, like, I need a minute, go laid on the floor, put my legs up the wall or up the back of the couch, you know, take a few breaths for like five minutes and then return to whatever I needed to do. Because my body won't let me just muddle through that feeling anymore.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah. That's a very common thing that I see in women going through this process is the sense that they can no longer tolerate that which they did, you know, before to push, push through. And also what you're speaking to is my approach is depth psychology. Um, as opposed to, well, there is some kind of like, how do we want to have the tools to manage symptoms? Right. That's a lot of what in the medical kind of terms of psychology look at. Depth psychology is getting more to the underlying core of what's happening, right? And another way of saying that is shadow work. So it's an invitation for us to do our shadow work when this is coming up because our our being, our system is saying absolutely no more. Like it's not going to tolerate suppressing down truths. And the truth being that we're not supposed to be pushing through all of that that you just mentioned, right? We go through that to certain things.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

And the shadow work, just to provide a little context, is um, you know, dealing with things that we haven't dealt with, right? Things that are considered kind of unpleasant to look at or deal with.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Absolutely. Yeah, in the shadow. So the integration of us as a whole being, we tend to in this society want to only look at those things that we feel good about, and hence we want to take the pill a day to make the symptoms go away that we call depression and anxiety. Yeah, that's an invitation to look at those parts of ourselves that maybe we um we're not aware of, but that are really so important in how we show up in our day-to-day lives and how we handle, you know, ourselves, our sense of self, adversity, how we handle that. So it is, it's like the, you know, people heard of the the child self, right? That's been kind of left behind. So it's the, you know, there was a sense of who we are before we learned to put on all the masks and do all the performing and fill all the roles and be very productive so that we can, it's go, go, go and keep up with it all. And then that got layered onto who we truly are. And so in the shadow is not, you know, maybe not necessarily it can be a lot of those things that like shame, guilt, all the things that we don't want to look at. Uh, but it also might be some things of ourselves that are our strengths. And we've left them behind because we were told, well, that's not gonna make you a big paycheck. So you're not gonna, we're not gonna develop that. And, you know, you know, I was one of those um children who was um told I was sensitive in a derogatory way. I'm sure a lot of women can understand that. And so that's a part, like it's in the shadow, like, well, and I don't want to be that because that is like looked upon as something that's very um unwanted. Uh, so there's a lot of parts of our child's house. Um, I know, you know, being sensitive. If I cried, you know, it's like, okay, stop that crying, you know, or I'll give you something to cry about or all that stuff, right? So then we can lean into our true self. So with that, you know, crying, there's grief. And so we get to lean into what is our grief and and feel it. Um, and a big part of this in our patriarchal society is trying to understand these things from a logistical perspective. So understand that they don't have to make sense in your mind, you can feel them. So this is where getting in contact with your embodied sense of self and your body holds so much wisdom. So all the things that you experience, you might not remember consciously, but it's part of your shadow, right? That this the stuff that's unconscious to you, if you're not consciously aware of, is all part of you. So you can tap into that through your body and you don't have to have the storyline that goes with it. You need to recognize it's something that you're carrying. It's part of you, what needs to be metabolized, what needs to be moved through, what needs to be held and seen and witnessed to be released, right? That whole saying you can't um you have to feel it to heal it. Like there's so much to that.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah. And I found that just turning your attention into that feeling. So if I start to notice something rising that I guess might be labeled as anxious feelings, um, if I take a pause and I kind of pay attention to what's happening, and I've seen this with clients as well, that eventually it just disappears. And, you know, I'll just draw their attention to whatever they're feeling in their body. And after a while, they're like, oh, it's just gone, or I feel it loosened up and it just went away. So that's you know, exactly what you're speaking to is that you don't have to have a story along with that. You have to say, oh, that's because such and such happened. It's just whatever is there in your body and just letting it be observed and then released.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Absolutely. Yeah. And the more you ignore it, the more it will grow, right? The more you kind of shove it down, it will just it grows, and then that will turn into physical symptoms. And then you think you have some kind of disease or something's wrong with you, which it can, it could turn into a disease. So if we look at our bodies as vessels that are um divine, sacred, and they have important messages for us, and we're working with them, not trying to control the body. And I think in the medical world and patriarchical system, it's more of controlling and managing the body. And instead, it's something that we are communing with. It's an integrated part of our whole, our physical sense of ourselves, as well as our emotional, psychological, um, cognitive, right, and spiritual sense. So, from a holistic perspective, that's where I like to work like you, Jill, is the whole person. And I, when I went to Brazil to learn at the spiritist hospitals, and particularly interested in how they do, you know, psychiatry and psychology there, they do see, they treat the whole person. Um, so just to give you an example, they have um medical mediums that work in a team, and there's not the hierarchy where the psychiatrists, you know, are up here and the medical news are down. There's this collaborative model where the people that are doing energy work, uh, the medical mediums, um, psychiatry. So there's a place for everything. So it's like where Western medicine is kind of merged with our ancient knowings and um where science will support looking into those things that are not patentable, if that makes sense. Like in our Western model, it's like if it can be profitable, there'll be an investment in how we're gonna research that. So, what's our birthright as far as really our intuition, our discernment, listening to our bodies? These are all very in nature, these are all very big aspects to our holistic well-being. Well, that's not gonna be researched much here, because that's not gonna bring anybody a big um amount of sums of money. So, yeah, there's like a shifting, I think that's going on even collectively here as things are being deconstructed or destabilized that don't serve humanity in a big way. So I feel like it's a very important time to be on earth, and especially going for those women going through uh perimenopause and menopause. It is like a calling back to yourselves and a calling to step into your wise women selves. And the world needs you. You know, if I could put that message out to women who are listening, they need you. So uh recognize your power and power not in the patriarchal way, power in a very loving, um, nurturing way of what the world needs right now. Uh, if you think about um, you know, I look at the metaphor of whale pods, when they have like the matriarchical older um whale in the pod, the pod does so much better. Right. So we're told in our society that we're not valued anymore as women who are in our kind of wise elder years, and that couldn't be anything further from the truth. Like we are so needed right now. We're being called into connecting with each other and also um supporting ourselves and others in in what's happening in the world right now.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, because there's such a focus on still on that aesthetic and how a person appears on the outside. And when you start to um, you know, not meet that that status, that standard of beauty that people accept, um, then it can be really hard to accept that. And I think if we as women could go more into the spiritual self. And I mean, I always say if I could have the wisdom I have now and be in my 20s, I'd be unstoppable because, you know, I just had there's so much energy and so many things that were there for me at that time, but I I lacked the wisdom and the courage and the confidence to really move forward with things that I would really have loved to do in my younger time. But then, you know, like what you're saying is to, I mean, it comes at a time, it comes at this time for a reason, I feel like. So there's different energy that's supposed to be given to yourself and your life in your 20s versus in your 40s, 50s and on. Um, so it's so interesting to think about that perspective instead of like having like I don't know how things like it's always that if you travel back in time and you change one thing, how would everything else land? Right. So if I had if I had this information back then, how would my life now be different? It's kind of interesting to think about.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, I think about that too, having you know, combine the wisdom with the energy that we had in our 20s. Um, however, that helps inform us of how to show up in this phase of our lives. When we were 20s, I think there was a lot of, you know, if you look at how times are changing, a lot of women our age now who would serve as our mentors, right? We're here, we're being mentors to younger women. So we can take our wisdom and support them and help them. And we are now at a time where there's a lot of ways that women can break free of maybe the constraints that um they've been under. So if you think about, you know, I mean, as a therapist, a psychologist working with women, there's generational trauma that's happening, right? So there's, especially looking along the mother line, like mothers that could not get out of maybe relationships that they felt very stuck in. And there's a lot of ways that they just had to live in untruth and live and kind of stuff down their own emotions. Yeah. Women are breaking free of that now. And when they feel an untruth with their discernment, whether it's in relationships or other ways, women are helping each other break free. That we're also have a society where it's more able to break free. So there's this intergenerational trauma that can get passed down. And we energetically break that chain, um, you know, as learning from other cultures, it's not just about ourselves, it's about generations back, generations forward, and the collective. So we tend to have an individualistic view in our culture, whereas in other cultures, it's about the whole. And so what we do ourselves, what we do to our neighbor, it's it's affecting the collective. And so they live from a much different perspective there, where the whole is so um important and healing the whole, which is all of us, which is past generations, forward generations. So if we can lean into that some more, it gives so much more um like awe into who we are and our purpose here and the impact that we can have just on healing, and it's not a just, it's big, on healing our own wounds. On into in another way of saying that, maybe is integrating who we are. Because some people think healing, okay, we kind of get rid of those, you know, quote unquote bad parts, but it's actually pulling them in and integrating um them. And it's all a part of ourselves, right? The shadow and everything. And then that can really help um healing others as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah, and I feel like learning from our parents too. I know having a mother and a mother-in-law in their 70s, um, and hearing from them as I'm in my menopause journey um how it was for them. And a lot of it, like in the one instance, I think there was a lack of awareness that it was perimenopause happening, that there were these shifts happening. Um, and in the other, it was having severe symptoms and not being able to talk to anyone about it. Um, and I um I know a lot in my energy sessions, it comes up things that have happened um intergenerationally, like you're saying, and that you know, the way in which I was parented, my mother was parented, her mother was parented, and how all those things kind of get passed along in our DNA. And then how, like you're describing, cutting that chain with our generation by allowing our children to cry, to have strong feelings, to be able to hold space for that. Um, I see that a lot coming up in my own life. That and now seeing as a as a mother now, seeing my mother with her grandchildren and saying, Wow, was am I being like that with because like I, you know, connecting those dots can be can be really strong, I feel like. So in in ending the behavior and in also seeing that, like like you, that I was maybe my mom couldn't hold space for my strong feelings at the time because of her own intergenerational trauma that she couldn't couldn't address or didn't have the tools to to reach in her in her own body and in her own psyche.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah. I can't tell you how many times I hear clients tell me, um, my parents, and often it's the mother they're talking about, couldn't hold my big emotions, right? They'll say that. And then they have such a hard time being with their own big emotions. Yeah, and it becomes this generational thing, exactly what you're saying. So when we allow that and hold that, um that is transformational in and of itself, right? And then we are able to hold that for ourselves and for our children. And then there's so many ways that we are helping our children break free of those chains of inauthenticity. Uh, because not only is it about emotionally, it's this discernment. So there's a lot of uh younger folks now who are in early adult or teens, and they're recognizing that they don't want to do a career that doesn't align with them, or they don't want to do the things that we have said in society you have to do to be okay or successful. So, you know, you're supposed to perform really well in school and high school so that then you make the cut to get into a really good college and perform really well there, so that you make the cut to get into a really good job, so that you can make a lot of money. All this is very evaluative and performative and um pushing through. And there's not much room in there, like really listening to who who you are and and what your purpose is here. So we're at a transformative time in many ways. With AI, there's a lot of shifts in what jobs are going to be available for our next generation. So there's a lot of unknown. So as we're in the space of unknown, this is where the wise woman comes in. We're in like a death and rebirth cycle. So kind of going back to other cultures and returning to who we are. We're part of nature. Death and rebirth is a natural part of this process, both within our lifetime, both collectively, our lifetime. And so holding this um collective in a place of unknown, because there can be a lot of anxiety in that the mind wants to understand what next. Let me have safety and security and what we're going to plan for next. And we're actually in a place we don't know that. Yeah. We can hold this hope of something much bigger unfolding because when it's seen in the context of death and rebirth, the rebirth doesn't happen without the fertile ground that comes from a death of something. And that's what we're in. And that's what we're in in perimenopause. So people are like trying to look for society in perimenopause of what am I going through? What's next for me? Oh, it's based on like the superficial, right? What I look like. And that's just not what it is at all. We're so valuable. And it's connecting with our worth because when the body is changing and we can no longer cling on to a superficial sense of self-worth that is about image and about what we look like, it forces us to be in touch with our true sense of who we are. And that's where our worth is held. And that is a gift. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

And I feel that explains too a lot about, you know, how um there's a lot more rates of divorce and major life changes during the midlife time in perimenopause, menopause, um, because there's that sense of, you know, removing the mask or um really prioritizing things that maybe your partner still prioritize, prioritizing things that are not what your partner may prioritize. And if you can't shift, make that shift together, then you know, having to make changes in your life in that way.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah. And I do see this a lot in my clients as far as them recognizing more what this perimenopause, menopause is inviting them into and leaning into that and being in a place of self-exploration and expansion. And then what happens is they're evolving. And there's this, you know, sometimes the people around them, including a partner or other family members or friends, want them to stay the same. Yeah. And so there's, you know, there's something there where that's a painful part too, because sometimes shedding relationships, be it friends or otherwise, uh, becomes part of this process. And so there can be a lot of like um grief layers of it as they go through this process. And again, death and rebirth cycle. So the death is a shedding. Um, and interestingly, you know, we're finishing up a year of the snake and we're about to start up the year of the fire horse and really kind of step into fully, you know, what we're here for. But there's been a lot of big sheddings going on in the past year. But yeah, so a lot of shedding will happen when you're stepping more into your authentic self because what you were holding up artificially with the life you constructed around expectations that others wanted you to fill, when you start saying no to that, um others are going to react differently. And so handling all of that becomes a very complex piece of this transformation. And so being held by other women who are going through it, and also, you know, therapy can be helpful. Um, and what you do, Jill, can be very helpful because then they really get in touch with how they're holding that, which does not serve them and needing to um release that.

unknown 33:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Yeah. And you mentioned that um indicated like community in that too. And I've um found that to be something I'm really trying to create more of. And um, I know we've talked before about like even as you were talking about, you know, things going on in the summer and drawing people in from different places. And I've really been embracing that a lot too, like that there are all these other people who contribute in so many ways, and just really creating a community of people around myself or other women to you know give that support. Because I feel like it's it's easy to understand these things and to do your own inner work, but there's something that gets missed if you're doing it in a in a vacuum because you're not um, there's something that you lose in in not having community. And you know, I mean, we are in an epidemic now of loneliness where people feel more and more isolated, more and more alone. Um and, you know, I think especially with women in this transition of life and whatever part of that transition they're in, and maybe they're post-menopausal, but are just now coming to terms with all of this. Um I think that you know it's a it's a great opportunity to to gather and learn from one another, too.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Absolutely. Yeah, and that is part of our roles as um women who are stepping into their wise elder. They're a big backbone of the community. And we're meant to live in community. So this is another way. It's like a reclamation, a calling back to ourselves and who we are, what it means to be fully human. And you know, I'd ask people to journal on that if they're like kind of in this phase or any phase of life where they're really struggling with who they are and what they're stepping into. So being in this web of life that is part of the community. And so you and I both, Joe, being really called into this aspect of connecting people, building community. And it comes at a time too when there's things that are crumbling at a larger scale. So we were in this culture told to rely on larger organizations and structures that were built in a patriarchal system. And our from our hearts, we're called into community and building things up more from the grassroots and depending on each other instead of relying on some leader or a uh a system. Um, and a lot of these systems are for profit, right? So it's just, you know, our nature is to return back to each other and ourselves. And there seems to be a natural unfolding of this happening. And and women, and especially wise women, are a big part of this, are really um pulling this together. And what we experienced the past, you know, years um as a collective has almost put like such a magnifying glass on the sense of isolation that we have in the society and made it so much more like, wow, we are really separate and alone. And then there's like a draught or return back to this interconnective collectiveness that we are. And so that's exciting, you know. Although it seems very chaotic because we are in a death rebirth process. So the death will be chaotic and the mind will want to know what is next. I need security. But the wise women know we're in a um a natural cycle of being human together. And so we'll pull on that togetherness and and help through this process and um and trust it, right? In that inner wisdom that we have, we trust that that's not something that comes from the logistical mind. Um, so there's just so many like gems, you know, that we bring to our society and to each other. And so, you know, with that um sense of community that you were talking to, Jill, is the our own healing when it's uh witnessed and mirrored back to us, like who we are validates us, our value when we're witnessed by others, by caring others, and held by caring others, that is so neurologically like healing to us. We feel safe again in the world and with each other. So I love doing groups. Um, I do retreats as well, and there's a lot of healing in that group space, just sitting around a fire circle. It's like what we primally and naturally would do dance around and share around a circle, both share in our stories, telling our stories, but also just like dancing, don't have to use words, it's connecting and bonding in in ways. So I think another thing that's coming up for a lot of people in this phase of their lives is connecting back to what it truly means to be human, what I was saying, and there's creativity in that. There's like, do I want to dance? Do I want to sing? What did I never connect with that I now want to do to feel fully alive? And so I love that seeing a lot of that going on with my clients. Yeah.

unknown 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

So it seems like the other um, I think we've talked about all the questions that I had mentioned. I mean, it seems like the real advice is to embrace the change. And to, I mean, I feel like there's also a strong part of um not expecting that it's gonna be all roses and lavender, you know, like it's not, I mean, we're talking about all the beauty of the process and you know how um wonderful it is and how natural it is, but it is gonna be edgy, it is gonna be hard. Um, you know, it's not to say that um seeing you're gonna wake up one morning and be like, oh, I'm so glad I have this joint pain in my knees. So, you know, but there is, I think it's like a bit of acceptance that yes, this is this is hard. And um, but it's also it also has to happen, you know, even though it's difficult. And, you know, what can I do today to maybe have less expectation of myself? Um, like if you wake up with inflamed joints, like what can I do today to have compassion for that? Um, knowing that this is what it is. Do I, you know, do I take a ibuprofen and that helps? Do I, you know, spend a little time with a heating pack on my knees or my joints? Do I modify my diet today? Like there are ways to um sort of accept and embrace what's happening while also recognizing that there is probably gonna be a part of us that wants to fight against it. Um, and and that that's just part of also embracing that and that experience.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Yeah. I'm glad you're mentioning that too, because the part where you said it's not all roses, right? To have that expectation that we are gonna suffer because it's we're going to get um challenged with what is painful. And we evolve in our lives often through what our challenges are, not through just sitting in comfort. So discomfort is a when we recognize it as a welcome part of life because it allows us uh to change and evolve. And also there's a parallel here with the spiritual emergence and spiritual awakening. So, spiritual awakening, when people hear that, sometimes they think, oh, this blissful state, and you just, you know, rise to the spiritual kind of um wonderful expansive state. That is not often how that happens. It's often through grief and um despair, and you think that you're having a breakdown, it's really a breakthrough that's happening. And so if there's ways that you've been living that's not in true nature of yourself, I see that like a spiritual awakening happening through some kind of a crisis in people's lives where they think that they're just falling apart. Um, and so actually that's the initiation, the doorway through into their next um up-level sense of themselves. So, same thing with this process of perimenopause, right? It is a long process having patience. Um, and then uh with the theme here is kind of shifting the lens on that. It's it's not a medical issue. Yes, go and see your doctor and work with your doctor, but also um expand upon that. Expand upon what your body is trying to tell you, expand upon a sense of looking at through the lens of an endocrine issue that needs to be resolved because your ovaries are not gonna go back to functioning the way they were. And they're not supposed to, we're trying to go jumpstart them to get them to go back to the way they were. No, your body's supporting a whole new sense of self of who you're gonna become. And we can work with that, or we can be working against that to try and medicate that away. And so I would just really um, you know, suggest that people support that. And so just looking at it from that lens of how do I work with my body and what's happening, how do I slow down, how do I connect with myself, connect with nature and other women in ways that support this. So yeah, just wanted to add that in.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah, and I was thinking when you're talking about like um, oh, I came up with the image of like a bone and muscles, because like your bones get stronger as you do like more weight-bearing exercise or more muscle building. So it's like it has to have pressure and um something pushing against it in order to grow. So I was kind of seeing that image um and talking about like that learning zone of you know, needing discomfort, needing things to be uh a little bit hard in order to actually grow and expand and become. And then um also like for me, I think part of my acceptance was I have to figure out a way to do X regular exercise. Like that was part of my acceptance. Um, and learning also how to manage, like um, I found a woman who does menopause yoga um in the UK, and she like has ways of managing hot flashes, like a certain breath. That helps her to get through the hot flash because it's a cooling breath. Um, you know, trying to find ways like that to manage what I'm experiencing has been a big part of my acceptance that, you know, I'm not, I'm not at a at a place in my life where I can eat junk food without gaining a bunch of weight. I'm not at the point in my life where I can not be active or not do any kind of um even just this uh a light weight lifting. Like there has to be something, these things have to change as you get older. Um, and I think that has helped me to move towards that acceptance. Um, and there is also a place for medications in in menopause. So if you're suffering to the point where you can't get out of bed because you're so inflamed in the morning. Or um, I know a woman who, you know, her whole body just like clenched up without the estrogen. And so, like, you know, I think what what you were saying too is, you know, go on, talk to your doctor if you need these medications to be able to function, then obviously medication has a place, but to look outside of that at what's going on in life and work kind of doing both things at the same time. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

There's this like coming together of the kind of the medical and also everything else to support us energy, spiritual, all that. So I encourage everyone to be holistic and yeah, definitely take all the medical issues that you're having very seriously. Make sure you're working with your doctor, absolutely, and then make room for everything else that you're being called to in this phase of your life. Um yeah, that was very well said, Joe, the way you put that. Um yeah, there's that, there's room for both. And I guess yeah, that's uh what I learned when I went to Brazil is they're working in both of that, bringing that together. And I just see their outcomes for health um surpass what we're doing in our in our Western world. And that's what drew me there to look into that. And it boils down to that. Just um it's really honoring both and bringing it all together.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Yeah, I look forward to the day when we'll acknowledge the benefits of through insurance coverage or more mainstream acceptance of acupuncture, yoga therapy, uh, Reiki, you know, those things have been in my and I have tried all those things. And for me, they have been so helpful in this entire process in managing symptoms and and also just feeling like um they're just also supportive in the process. And then, you know, sound bath and other things too, to just kind of clear things out. So I I look forward to that day when when we're there where you know, I can say to someone, because um, I can say to someone that is entrenched in the medical world, well, go to the acupuncturist. There's someone not far from you who offers a reduced cost for that. And they'll say, Oh yeah, I've already been to that person. Or, or yes, I have their number and I have an appointment on Tuesday. Because those things are so helpful if we just are able, I mean, and they're expensive. So that's part of what keeps people from doing those things. Um, but I I look forward to that day when we can more fully recommend those things to people and they have a way or means of of taking part in them and open-mindedness to to doing that.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Absolutely. And I see that unfolding. There's a lot of um collaboratives forming. So in the couple of places where I work at Amazing Mind, Body, Soul, and Synergy, Social Wellness, we have you know functional medicine, we have acupuncture, we have a naturopath, um, sound healers, energy healers. And so it's coming, it's it's merging together naturally. And yeah, Lajilla, like you're saying, when the insurance system kind of catches up to that, so that people can have the option um to get all of the pieces you know that they need to support them in whatever their um issue, you know, that they're trying to work with. So we're seeing that people come together and creating this. And so that's very helpful and promising, um, as far as I can see. And I see more and more people seeking that out, recognizing that they value, you know, the medication that they're taking, and they also want to look for what else is gonna support them in their process or in whatever symptoms they're coming in with. So that is helpful.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Any final tidbits that you feel like we didn't touch on that feel like they're important? Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Well, the the other thing, I mean, I just, you know, want to mention like with my end-of-life work, because you had mentioned speaking to other women about the symptoms or what you're experiencing. And I see this like an end-of-life work. We have such an aversion to talking about death that people feel so alone, whether that's the family members or the person that's going through the process and they're getting ready for the transition. So I guess what I'm trying to hear is is to connect and speak your truth. So there's a lot that we kind of hold back from and, you know, cause us to feel tense and clenched because we don't want to talk about it. And again, this is like opening up to the shadow, right? So this is all part of our natural experience, all the transitions we go through in life and our shared experiences, and we're here to help each other. So all those um maybe you might think are embarrassing symptoms or whatever it is that are just like nuisance of symptoms, um, your experience, it's so important for people to be able to tell their stories in so many ways. And that includes sharing what you're going through that may be uncomfortable and having that um shared experience with other women in that kind of, you know, in that supportive women's circle that we do of holding each other through these maybe uncomfortable parts of our evolving. So um just wanted to make sure I put that in there. Uh, but otherwise, there's so many other things we could take a rabbit hole into. So maybe saving that for another podcast.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yeah, anything that you have coming up that you wanted to make people aware of or how to contact you if they are having um a spiritual awakening or a feeling like they need a little more support?

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Um, yeah, well, the first thing as far as uh things coming up. So I'm in the process of collaborating and planning um an event on June 20th that'll be over in the Finger Lakes area. And I think we're gonna call it One Farm uh Festival. So it's coming together of people who are musicians, farmers, healers, those that are feeling called to come back to the earth and live in community and naturally, and that transcends any like ideology we have, right? It's all it's about being human and connected. So, Jill, you'll be um pulling them in, you're gonna be part of that too. So um hopefully you'll be doing some kind of offering there. So just want to put that on people's radar to look out for that. And then people can find me at Synergy Social Wellness and at Amazing Mind, Body, Soul Center in Canadagua. Um, and then planning on doing some more retreats. I do ketamine wellness retreats. I'll be getting that up and running again probably towards the end of the year. And people can find me at mindtrollshealing.com if they want to get more information about quantum healing hypnosis or spiritual emergence or psychedelic integration, psychedelic assisted psychotherapy. Um, there's a lot of information there. So yeah, and I just, you know, like to be involved in the community. So hopefully seeing a lot of people, I go to a lot of women's circles and um other gatherings. So hopefully just seeing a lot of your viewers out and about in the community.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Yes. Well, thank you so much for all of your wisdom. Um just there's so much that you have to offer. Um, and so much, so many things I don't even think about that that you're aware of. So I appreciate you sharing all of that with us today. And um yeah, thank you, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

I feel so honored to be on your podcast. And big thank you and a big shout out for all that you're doing for the community. It's very much appreciated and needed at this time. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

I hope my conversation with Dr. Lonabush was something you need to embrace your wise one. Um, as we move through the cycle of kind of a lot of you can do that.