Candid Conversations: LTC (R) Elko on Leadership, Service, and Legacy

A little about LTC Gloria Elko:

I am to be the first woman in my family to have ever served in the Military, and I am second generation to serve in the Army. As an Army brat I was mostly raised near my extended family in El Paso, TX. I earned my bachelor's in Liberal Arts and my commission from the University of Texas at El Paso in 2002.

I served honorably in the Army Medical Department from May 2003 through retirement in May 2023. I specialized in Medical Operations and Healthcare Administration. In that time I also earned my Master's in Healthcare Administration from Baylor University in 2015. The first 10 years of my career was spent overseas (Korea, Germany, Iraq, and Hawaii). 

I deployed and served 24 months in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom (2005-2006; 2008-2009). In that time there were moments of excitement, fear, anxiety, disbelief, chaos, but above all commraderie. I am proud of my time in Service.

I met and (later married) an Army AG officer through a Unit Movement Officer course in Germany, and have two wonderful children as a result, Sophia (9) and Ethan (7). After retirement, I began volunteering with the Military Women's Memorial, the South County Little League (specifically softball), and Girl Scouts of America, Troop 52119..

After retirement, I spent about a year working as a contractor data analyst consultant for Seneca Holdings. During that time my focus was process improvement within A.T. Augusta Medical Center's Resource Management department at Fort Belvoir. In Fall of 2025, I opted for a complete life/skill/ career change, and left Seneca to enroll at George Mason University as an Art History undergrad, with a minor in Studio Art. As a full time student, I DJ for the campus radio station, and am pursuing photography in my spare time. To date my work has been displayed in two separate galleries in Northern Virginia.

 I appreciate those I served with, and am grateful to the women who helped paved the way for me to have a 20 year career with a family, and equal opportunities.

Soldier, Mom, Wife, Daughter, Sister, Friend, Volunteer, Veteran, Mentor, Transitioning Veteran Coach, Student, DJ, Photographer.

If you wish to contact her, please check out her LinkedIn profile 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gloria-elko?utm_source=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=member_ios

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to Candid Conversations, the podcast where women who have served in uniform share their real life stories, real leadership lessons, and real lives beyond rank. Today's episode is one I'm especially excited about. Joining me today is Lieutenant Colonel retired Gloria Elko. She is a Medical Service Corps officer with 20 years of service, and her journey reflects what it truly means to lead, adapt, and grow, both in a uniform and beyond it. What stands out to me about Gloria is her story, which reflects both dedication and the leadership in the Medical Service Corps and the courage of being the first woman in her family to step into military service. She brings real experience and real insight, and I know this conversation is going to resonate with so many of you listening. Please welcome soldier, mom, veteran, and my friend, Lieutenant Colonel Gloria Elko.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Hello, that was a wonderful intro. Thank you. Now I feel like I gotta live up to that. So I will do my best.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

All right. So thank you for being here. And you know the glory I'm still getting used to, of course. I'm really glad to have you a part of this conversation. So let's jump right in. So first thing I want to know is what inspired you to join the military? Like I mean, you know, generation, but as a as a woman, what was that? Like, what what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

So I'm second generation in the army, first one to ever go in, uh, first female to ever go in. And so my dad served, and he would come home with like these nuggets of like travel and adventure and like this everybody has to serve. Like he was always planting these seeds. So that's kind of where it started. And then my brother ended up with like the goatee in the earring very early on, and I was a bit of a tomboy, and then my dad looked at him and looked at me, was like, my other son, come here.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Let me tell you about the art.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

I was like, okay, that sounds good. And then so part of it was, you know, that instilling of like the obligation to serve. And then at one point I wanted to be a lawyer, and I didn't, but I didn't feel like I could properly uphold the constitution if I myself had never done anything to preserve rights.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

And so, you know, so that was the second pillar, and then the third pillar was I just wanted to travel. Like I'm from El Paso, Texas. Right. I just like I would hear my dad going, I was in the island of Crete, and I was here, and I was in London, and I was, and I'm like, man, who wanted to do that? Yeah. So I mean, I I remember, and if I come off topic, just bring me back in. But you know, when I was picking up my first duty station in ROTC, I literally told like the guy next to me, I'm like, where do you want to send me? And I just gave my friend my paperwork. He's like, he's like, I'm gonna put Korea. I'm like, cool. Like, and we were there, why not? So I mean, it's it legitimately met all of my expectations. It's uh there's a lot of things I didn't expect and I was uncertain of, but you know, I got the travel, I served honorably, I feel like I did something for our country. And you know, there's so many people that take so many of these rights for granted, you know, and so I like to call it that me and my family, we've paid our dues.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

There you go. Right. More than enough. More than enough. You know, with 20 years of service, I will say that is definitely not an easy feat, you know, and you were dual military because your husband's military also. And to be able to balance that and still be successful in your career and also be successful at home is a very hard thing to balance. And and once we get into, you know, we can talk about that in a few minutes. I kind of want you to go over your tract and how how did you decide to join officer versus versus enlisted? And oh no.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Okay, I literally just told a story to my daughter, and it was because she asked me that my, she's a fourth grader. She asked me the question, what's the most trouble you ever got into? And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

I gotta hear this.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

So my dad was enlisted. Okay. And uh like right, like I think right at 17, got out of high school early, like he just came in. So they I grew up with my parents saying, like, 18, we're kicking you out of the house. You know, we're yeah, yeah, oh yeah. We found our way to pay for college. You need to find your way. And like, I'm a literal person, I can't help it. I always have been. And I took them at their word. Like, I was like, okay, I better have a plan, right? So I tell my mom that now, and she's like, we weren't gonna kick you out. And I'm like, well, I didn't know that. I used you spent 18 years of my life telling me you were gonna kick me out. So I graduated early. I early on in elementary school. Kudos to you for that. That means you're pretty smart. I knew that, but wow, I didn't know how smart.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

So I start talking to a recruiter. My job, I'm gonna graduate high school at age 17. Right. And I talked to the recruiter. Recruiter's like, yep, we'll get you in the ASBAB, you know, we can pay for college, you know, the whole song and dance. Yeah. And I didn't tell my parents. And then one day the recruiter's like, let's go take the ASBAB, and I'll buy you McDonald's. And like, for me, that was I'm like, ooh, why not? I'm all in, I'm all in. So I maybe didn't attend my afternoon classes in high school that day, and I went to go take the ASBAB. And I thought it was a legitimate reason. Yeah, of course. You're planning your future, of course. Well, what's going on in the background is don't judge me. I'm such a big of course not. Never. I was in debate, right? So I was on the speech and debate team, and for a competition, I think I took an incomplete on a or took an incomplete as a grade, so I'd remain eligible because I was competing when I was supposed to take a final some sort of test, right? So I'm taking the ASVA. My guidance counselor that day decides to check my record because I'm a senior. Right. And then she's like, Oh, it looks like you're not going to graduate because you have this incomplete in English, right? Let me call you into my office and see what's going on. So she tries to, oh see. You know where this is going. So she calls into my classroom. I think I had like, I don't know, I was working in the book room or something silly. And uh they're like, she's not here. And it's like, what do you mean she's not there? Right. So then she calls my mom and says, Where's your daughter? And and my mom goes, Wait, you tell me where my daughter is. She's supposed to be at school. What are you talking about? I mean, if ever there was a universe and planets lining up, Murphy's Law, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Murphy's Law kicked in big time. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So like I come back with my McDonald's and I like rock start the Asphap. And I'm like, okay, I'm ready to like tell my parents. Like, I already have it all lined up. And oh my gosh, it was just oh my god, horrible. Oh my god, horrible. My mom, like I get back to the school, I'm like in the principal's office, they're calling my mom, my kids, she left, but you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Oh my god, they're panicking. I'm sure they were panicking, and they were probably so pissed with you when you were done.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Oh my gosh, so pissed, so pissed. And then, you know, my mom's like going after the recruiter, and like she's 17, you can't even be talking to her.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

And my dad, oh my god, I mean, months. My parents didn't talk to me after like months. This was they were so and what pissed off my dad, but that's I said, No way, oh my god, that's crazy that they didn't talk to you from oh my gosh. But my dad was like, listen, and he didn't say it this calmly. He's like, I busted my ass, and I went the inlet route, and you will not have that hardship. Like, that is not what I want for you. And yeah, I want you in the military, but not like this, like this, and not sneaking around, not you know, and I I didn't see it as me sneaking around, like it was literally like trying to put a plan in place, right? Just you wanted to have a plan set before you came to them. I get it. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, You will go to college. He's like, if you're going into the army, you're going into college. So that is the decision between enlisted and officer, and also the story of the most trouble I ever got into. That wasn't, I mean, that really wasn't bad compared to what it could have been. Oh, yeah. That's not bad. That's not bad.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Not bad at all.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah, tell them that. I'm gonna put this over in this airs. I'll play it for my parents. Exactly. No, it wasn't that bad. Because we can all we can all relive that trauma. Oh, but let me let me finish that story real quick. So I go into Army RTC at UTEP, and the recruiter that I had been working with. Now, mind you, my dad tried to fire that guy. Like my dad went out. Oh, it was on. Oh, I know he did. My my dad was a first sergeant at the time. So whoops. I walk into UTEP RTC. Oh yeah. I see that recruiter. He's on staff at UTEP RTC. He takes one look at me and he's like, nope, nope, nope, nope, get out. I'm like, I'm so sorry. And like within like two months, he was at another duty location. I was like, oh yeah. The world, the planets on that episode, the planets completely.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

I love that. That that is an awesome and amazing story. Awesome story. I love it. I love it. And thank you for telling me that. Thank you. We appreciate that. So you did ROTC and then you went to Korea. Was three your first duty station?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Korea was my first duty station. So I was a ground ambulance platoon leader. Okay. And then after that, they were like, where do you want to go? I was like, can I go to Germany? They're like, sure. I was all about how many countries can I hit? And which is absolutely yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I I kind of joined for the same reasons because I wanted to see the world and I knew this was a way to do it. So when you got to Korea and you know, being this brand new, what first lieutenant, second lieutenant, baby tenant straight out of baby, little butter bar. What was your idea of leadership and and what was your experience like with that?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

You know, so I came into what I'm gonna call like that cusp of like old army and new army. And you know, I told you my dad was a first sergeant and had given me a lot of guidance, and he's like, Listen, you don't know anything. All right, I actually his word, he's like, You don't know shit. Right, and nobody wants to hear your ideas. So sit down and shut up and listen. Second color, yeah. And and I'll tell you, it was good advice. I would tailor that now though, because it it hindered me from finding my voice, but it worked out in my favor. I got you. And so I walked in and I just assumed that everybody knew more than me. I had a rusty old first sergeant who's just like, who diapered you and told you you can come into my army, right? And so it was always these things. And yeah, you know, so you're young, you want to be, you know, you don't know anything, and you know you're in a unit filled with experience.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

But then along with that, there was a lot of talking down to women. There was a lot of like sexual innuendos, and and I'm not proud of it now, but I can give myself grace because I didn't know any better. Right. Like I assimilated into the boys' club.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

And that is very typical, yeah. Yeah, of course. You know, when you're coming from an experience and you're like, okay, I've been told, like, hey, shut up and just, you know, go with the flow type. And going with the flow sometimes, meaning can condoning condones those activities, whether you agree with it or not, yes, going with the flow. So I totally, I totally understand that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah. And that's that's a lot of what it was. And then even when I would see things that were wrong and I would try to like stand up for my soldiers or I would try to impact it, like I was just met with so much resistance. And it was just based on the rank that I had.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

So what I I've always taken, good leader or bad leader, I've always taken lessons from everybody that I served with, right? Yeah, absolutely. And so I kind of figured out early on how to identify a mentor, right? And who to connect with. And then when somebody has ideas or voices things that make me uncomfortable, that's somebody that I work with. I I wasn't brave enough to call them out on it, but I was at least cautious enough to keep them at a distance, right? And then gravitate to people that really were trying to mentor me or really trying to develop me. So, you know, I and I I really thought that that's just what the army was.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I was like, okay exactly, because that's what you that's what you see. You don't know any different, so why would you think any different? Yeah, I totally understand that. Like trying to find your voice in the military as a woman is very difficult. Very difficult. You know, you would think in the medical field, it wouldn't be because we have so many women and so many people, providers, officers enlisted. But I'm glad you brought that up because it is something that you know we we still encounter. And I think in that time in the early 2000s, it was not as uh freeing, and uh we didn't have as much support as they do today. So trying to navigate that is definitely difficult. And and it seems like you kind of figured out what worked for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Very slowly. It was uh the first year was a lot. It was a lot, and I learned a ton, right? I mean, you're in the field every other month, and then you're learning like it was like that was a no-joke, you're in the army.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

That's definitely a uh here like boots on the ground, like you're thrown to the wolves type thing. You're gonna fire. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

So, but yeah, so that was that was Korea and definitely pulled a lot of lessons. I also learned in Korea not to burn a bridge, right? So my method of using my voice is I would get loud and figuratively jump on desks, right? If it meant taking care of my soldiers, like nobody stepped on my soldiers, and I actually went up against a second company commander that I had. And I mean, I won't tell that story, but I will say that when I told my dad about it, he's like, I hope you enjoyed that because you'll never do that again in your career. Because I mean, when I say I went off, like I popped off. Yeah, big deal. She was mistreating one of my soldiers and I didn't appreciate it. And I was like two days away from a PCS. So I'm like, I'm out of here, I don't care. Let's go. Well, fun fact, fast forward 18 years, like, and I always was looking for her because she had like a very unique name. Yes. And so I was always like, Where is she? Where is she? And then we ended up in the same building, and I was like, dang it. I gotta wow. I actually ended up having to make amends because I had to work with her for something. Okay. And I had to be like, hey, I know, second lieutenant, you know, it's very fiery.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Exactly. You know, and I mean it makes sense, right? Like you're you're this brand new officer, and you're doing what at that time, what you know and what is right. Whereas 18 years later, you've grown, you've learned you've gotten some rank. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Well, and I I can understand that my approach was extreme, and I could have gotten the better or the same result just by like calmer demeanor and like explaining, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

So I will say from as you have gone through your career, went through your career, what how like who did you emulate to see that? Like, did your the people that you picked, the leaders, like a mentor, teach you that? Was it the or did you see or did you learn by failure?

SPEAKER_00 15:43

I learned by failure. I I burned myself several times and I was like, oh, don't do that. I did have a a handful of mentors that would tell me, like, you gotta tone it down. Like you can't, you can't do that. But then, you know, when I look at it in hindsight, and I I'm sure you have too, like once you take the uniform off and then you really do that self-reflecting, like, I don't know how much of that was appropriate for them to say, tone it down, right? And were they telling the males who were equally passionate the same thing? And so now I take all of that with a grain of salt, right? So, but it wasn't until I got much more senior, probably well past the 10-year mark, where I started to see like the calm female leader.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Um, but then that becomes a little bit detrimental because sometimes that calm female leader still has that messaging of like you don't show emotion, right? Like it's a sign of weakness. And so, you know, we're we bottle all this stuff in and in a very unhealthy manner, and then it starts to affect our health, right? Like, I've I mean, uh no HIPAA here. I've I've got anxiety and same, absolutely, meds and all, absolutely, absolutely anxiety people all of that, everything, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I totally understand, and I agree because I've been in those spaces, and it's how do you it's trying to find that balance, and I will say for me personally, I didn't really the full picture didn't come together until I was a first sergeant. Yeah, and I was like, the way you're doing it isn't working, you can't be this hard charging all the time, and you can't be too soft, you gotta find your sweet spot. And the word that I always use was transparency. That was the biggest lesson for me being a first sergeant is being transparent to my soldiers, to my peers, like everyone, because letting them see that I'm human. I have emotions and I'm gonna be upset about things, some things I'm gonna be hard charging for, some things I'm gonna be like, eh, whatever, you know, yeah, sure, whatnot. But being able to express those emotions and not feel like I'm being judged because I'm a woman. Yeah. Because, you know, also a minority is a big one too. It's a big one because that was the preconceived notion for me is I gotta, I gotta change the standard. I took it as I gotta change the standard. I gotta be the standard. And in order to change the standard, you gotta be the standard. That's what I told. And so, but that was so hard to try and project and and be that person all the time. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

It can't. It it eats you up inside. And so, like my my last two years, I think the second to last year, I talked to a therapist because I was like, listen, I'm sleeping in a curled up position with this. Like, I would have like nail prints in my hands. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know. Yeah, that's and she's like, You're stuck in fight or flight. Yeah, you're stuck in fight right now. And she's like, What's going on? I'm like, I don't, I don't know. And I was getting like headaches and like my whole body, like I would have to like open up my whole body every morning. And I'm like, what is that? And she's you know, and it's because you know, so her and I had to have a lot of conversations about emotions, and I thought that emotions came like a standard eight pack of crayons, right? Like, there's like eight of them.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

That's all you get, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Right. She she's like, There's like 54, and I'm like, What?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

So I mean, I have what what there's more sad, happy, sad, there's more than that. Excuse me? Like, what? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 19:18

You don't get taught that, and then we don't get taught. And then if I like, and she's like, Do you ever feel like you want to cry? I'm like, Yeah, she's like, Why don't you? I'm like, because you're not supposed to. We're not supposed to. That's not what we do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

No, I'll cry in the car, maybe, but I will never shed a tear in front of a soldier. I will never, yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I mean, I was in Roxy and uh a senior cadet, she had been prior service. I asked her, I'm like, I am so tired, and I know you're tired. How do you keep motivating when you're like exhausted? She goes, You go in your sleeping bag, have your cry, don't do that shit in front of them, and then get back to work. And again, I took that, I was like, okay, that's what we do, right? Right. And so, like, I'm not healthy.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

No, it's not everything. No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I will tell you the one course that taught me about true emotions, MRT. When I say that, it's probably one of the that is the best course the military has, hands down. Master resiliency trainer was the thing that really, and I had already been in the army for like 10, 12 years by the time, maybe even more by the time I went to the course. And I was so I drank all the Kool-Aid when it came to MRT. I drank the Kool-Aid, I became a facilitator, all of that. But it showed me that those basic, mad, sad, basic, happy emotions, you know, it made you really define what you were feeling. Were you disappointed versus were you upset? Were you frustrated? So it gave a lot of words. And I will say that's when I was, I think it was uh E6, almost E7. And that's when the transition started for me. When I could label my emotions and be able to say, this is how I'm feeling, and be able to tell that to other people is very important. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, it's more. And and when you said it's more than just those basic crayons of those eight, I thought of the movie Have You Seen Inside Out. Yeah, yeah. That's the movie that came to me.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

She told me that that is based on like actual research. Yes. And I was like, ah, like, I mean, we went through the whole, like, I have to, I have a an image for each of my emotions and like how to control it's a whole thing, and I've just wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yeah, and I think that's important too for people to know. Like, don't cookie coat, like get to know your emotions and be able to truly define them so you know and get to the root of why you're feeling that way. Be honest with yourself, right? Yep, 100%. Good. That was awesome. That was awesome. So let's talk about a challenge that you faced in uniform. Well, we kind of already did.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

No, I think everyone's career, you just you get full of challenges, right? Like you get the bad leaders. You get the ones that aren't taking care of you. I can't narrow it down to like one meaningful challenge, I would I would say, but I can't sum it up. I think it had to have grown me. Yeah. Was times in my life where I was going through something and it was difficult, emotionally draining, tedious heart, and nobody was checking in on me, right? And so I think because I was raised by a first sergeant, I picked up on how to take care of soldiers, and that's the most important thing. And that became that became my mantra, that became my expectation. But there were times that like I know I needed somebody, and like nobody laterally or above me was like, hey, are you okay? Let me check on you, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

It's like, oh, she's good, she's getting it done.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yeah. Well, because that's just it, right? Because the work never faltered, right? The work always got done. Exactly. The mission came first, right? Mission first. But if anybody had ever gone like, hey, are you okay? I mean, I I would have fallen apart.

unknown 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

You know, totally understand that. Yeah. Because and and so I think that brings up a great point of as a leader, when you have experienced those things, I think it's very important that we take those lessons and pour it into our soldiers. Like, hey, because this didn't happen for me, I need to make sure it does for you. I think there's, and I would imagine, I know you did, pour that into your soldiers, your you know, subordinates, soldiers, and hopefully even your peers and um supervisors that because it's not just checking down, you have to check up to to make sure because they struggle also.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah, I always made it a point. Like if I see somebody and if I hear like it's it bit me in the butt several times and it forced me to stay at work late many times, but it was fine. Right. I always had an open door, right? And if you came into my doorway, and I don't care if you wanted to talk about what you were gonna do this weekend, I don't care if you were gonna talk about I don't care what it is. I would always stop what I was, unless it was like something on fire and I needed to get it out, right? But like 90% of the time, go ahead. The doorway's yours. Have a seat. What do you just need somebody to listen to you? And I'm just not the thing. People just want to be heard. Yeah. I think that came from I ended up being a suicide investigation officer in Iraq. Really? Oh wow. Very interesting. Oh my gosh. That had to be very challenging. That was horrible. It's, I mean, it there was uh there was too many, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

And that you that is also in itself a problem.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah, absolutely. And so they put like a 15-6 officer, and then like I was like looking, and it was like it didn't matter who I interviewed or what I looked through, there was no signs like I couldn't find, I couldn't pinpoint. But what that taught me, I was like, you know, this guy had nobody. Like, if you checked my work email, right, inevitably you would see a couple of messages to my husband where it's like, hey, can you pick up the kids or something? You know what I mean? Like some sort of non-work related, not all the time, like a two percent, right? No. This kid had like nothing. And then so what I internalized from that was like, my door is always open. I will always listen. If I have to stay late to finish my work, fine. It's working. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah. And so I think that is a big thing as a leader also that I had to realize is you want to be approachable. People want to feel like they can, you want to be the type of oh, I strived to be the type of leader that, hey, if you're, you know, if you're walking by, I'm gonna be like, what are you doing? Come talk to me real quick. What's happening? And I remember you doing that. And I'm gonna be like, what are you doing? Hey, what are you doing? What's happening? And because I wanted people to know, like, I see you. And I just wanna, you know, as long as I can just say hi to you and look in your face and be like, hey, how are you today? What's going on? What are you doing? You know, and so that somebody cared. Somebody cared enough to ask. And I will say I've been on the other end of that many times where I haven't been the person that no one like would reach out to. So I made it a point to make sure I had people around me that knew that. And so that's where my best friend comes in and knows me and gets to know me, who I am, and whatever. And we've been best friends for like 15 years now. But yes, I know since Afghanistan. We've been in Afghanistan, so crazy. But it's I think it's so important to have people around you like that, especially being a woman in the military, having those that support, yeah, you know, uh, to help you through those tough times and true friends. And some of my best friends, like I said, people who I call family was in the military. So let's talk about your transition out of the military. Mine's was horrible, so I'm not gonna tell my story, but how your transition was and and how that kind of got you to where you are now.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Absolutely. So you need to tell that story, right? And even if you do a separate podcast, like where it's just you, you need to tell that story. I had to fight for mine to be good. And so I unfortunately worked for my immediate raider, it was a civilian who had retired from the military. And oh ooh, back in their day, they worked until the day they got out. And why are people doing the CSP program? Because they're just shamming. Like, why are they taking 90 days and why aren't they part of the mission? And I don't know if I earned it enough, like I done gave you 19 years, right? Sure. Why not? It's I think I did the math, it's like two percent. I'm asking for two percent out of my entire career to go take care of care of me. Yeah, right. And so, and me and this raider were already like approaching bad terms, which is really weird because like we had started off in really great terms, and then anyway, uh, that's that's a whole other trauma story for another time. And so the good thing about me is like one of my superpowers is I read people, right? Like I've got good self-awareness and I've got very good awareness on people. And I kind of had already I knew his feelings about CSP and all these transition programs.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

So I waited like that my senior raider switched out one, two, three, like four times in that year. Jeez. It's because the the one that was outgoing was like didn't get picked up for promotion and was out the door, and then we had like an interim and then a second interim, and then like the one who was supposed to be there. It was that's chaos. It was chaos, right? And that kind of led to why me and my Raider were uh because he thought a lot on on his plate. Of course, yeah. I positioned myself with like the new guy. Oh yeah, like by the way, listen, I'm done. My paperwork is in, I really need to do this. I don't know how to negotiate a salary, I don't know how to do a resume, I don't know how to do any of these things. Right. And thank God he was so just with it. He because he just wanted a staff that was willing to sprint. And as soon as I told him, like, I was done, he's like, Cool, thanks for telling me. One day I'm gonna get out too. Exactly. We have to take care of people. You go do you, I'm gonna bring in somebody else. And I'm like, that works for me, like sales.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Like, but that's how it should be. That's how it should be. That turnover of I shouldn't be dependent on you to work up until the day you retire. That's insane, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah, so I we had to tell my like my raider found out after I was like, and he was to right, like you went over my head, and I'm like, cool, it's fine. But once I broke that down, then transition was good. Like I did the the CSP program, I burned all of my leave. But what I learned, and kind of along the same lines of what you're doing here, is that nobody tells you about how to get out of the military. We spend so much time doing all this professional development, and we'll tell you like how to be a leader. We don't tell you how to get out.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Don't know how to yeah, don't know how to transition. I'm actually a transition coach right now, and so that's wonderful, among the many other awesome things that you don't run.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

That I'm doing and what I do is I help people, like I help people like here's your backward timeline, right? Here's what here are the things that you need to take into account, here's how you do your disability, right? Let's have an honest conversation about that. Huge one, huge.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

That was where my failure came in with disability, huge failure. Let me know if we need to talk about that after this. I know I might need um I'm in therapy, so you know I'm still you know a process like three years later.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

We're gonna when this stops recording, we're gonna have a conversation. Absolutely. But I've I think uh I've pulled like 10 people and helped them with their files, um, to include my husband. I actually have uh an appointment with somebody on Friday, and so I can't turn it into a business, right? Yeah, because I still need to build the portfolio, yeah. But it's not about the money aspect, it's about like nobody tells, and nobody gives you that permission to be like, it's okay to take care of you.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yes, ma'am. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

We sing the song twice a year, the army's gonna go rolling along with or without you, and it means it, and it absolutely means it.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

I said I've said that so many times that the army has the absolute perfect song, the army goes rolling along. That thing is gonna move whether you're there or not. So why not take care of yourself?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Exactly. And see, somebody had to tell me there she was because she saw I was uh I was at the office of the surgeon general, right? And so I was in a very intense position, and so very demanding position too.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

During COVID, during COVID, oh god, oh my god. Oh, I can't, yes, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

It was during COVID. Oh, by the way, Russia invades Ukraine. Oh by the way, we're gonna overhaul all of army medicine, and oh by the way, we're gonna get out of Afghanistan. Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

I was oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Like, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

It was awesome, right? Like, because I got to see the whole picture and I was like, oh my god, this is and I don't think a lot of people get to see the, you know, the you got to see the full pie, the everything. Because most of us, we only get the slices. Majority of us have our little piece. But when you get to see the overall pie, you're like, I see how all these things tie together, it makes it make sense. But the majority of us never get to see that. And so we just be in our own little world, like, I don't understand why we got to do a CHA crap. I don't understand why we got to do this. But when you're on that that big scale, oh yeah, like, you know what? It makes sense. I understand. So that's awesome that you got to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

It's like seeing the like the puzzle piece, and you're like, oh, this is what we've been building. I totally get it now. Yeah. Oh, the job came with its own intensity, which is fine, right? Like, and that's the way, and that's not, I get it, like you can't really fully break away from that. But somebody had to keep checking on me once they knew my retirement paperwork was in, and she was like, Have you done something for your retirement right today? And I'm like, No, I don't have time, like I can't. And then she's like, Listen, my husband got out last summer. Do you know who called him the day after he retired? And I was like, No, who? She's like, Nobody.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Very, very, very, very impactful. Like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

I needed to hear that though. Like, I needed to hear, like, somebody, somebody has to, I feel like if you're leaving on your own terms to separate from the military, somebody has to pull you out.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Right. And they have to say, like, listen, you've done great. It's time to focus on you. And so I thankfully I had that kind of support. Anyone who is transitioning, I will say, everything's better with a buddy. Yes. So latch on to somebody who's within plus or minus a year of you, and then go through it together. One of my now closest friends that I worked with there, she retired nine months before me. And we have had a standing coffee date every month since we both got out. Just to and it helps because it's like, oh, how did you navigate this process? What did you do for this? And then, and then, of course, you get a great friendship out of it. And now it's just like, Hire your kids, what are you doing? Like, oh, you're gonna teach water aerobics? That's so cool. I'm a D-Jay.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, you transition together essentially, and that you know becomes something that's awesome. You build that friendship. That's a great idea. That's a great idea. And I will tell you, I will do a shameless plug for you, and I will put your on the podcast, I will put your value on your info there. And if people want to reach out to you, if I have your permission for your email, so they can email you and ask you questions about transitioning, of course.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah, a hundred percent will answer anything that I can and any advice. Always good for that. After transition, I did try to do a contractor gig where I was an advisor. Is that okay? Are you good?

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Oh yeah, no, we're good. That's all. No, we're fine, we're fine. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

I did try to do advising and consulting for uh the military treatment facility here at Belvoir. And I did that for a year. But it's the same problems that I was solving 10 years ago. Yeah. I was like, this it's not healthcare for me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah, yeah. A lot of people asked me when I retired, like, oh, are you gonna do physical therapy and do things that you did? I said, absolutely not. Yeah. And they're like, why not? I said, because I've done that. Yeah, I want to do something different. Like, let me try my hand at something I've never done before. I know I'm good at that. I don't have everyone. It's like it's a good fallback, but let me see what else I'm great at. So tell me what else you're great at.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Let's talk about that. You know, I I think before I tell you what I'm trying to be good at right now, I think that that's a conversation and a self-discovery that people aren't ready for when they come out of the military. Right. Because you go from an environment where people are telling you what to think, what to do, how to be, how to dress. And now all of a sudden it's like, okay, what do you want to do? And you go, I don't know, I have choices. It's too much. It's too much choices.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Somebody give me some direction, help me figure out what I want to do. I want somebody to tell me. Yeah. I I absolutely was there. Tell me what you need me to do or what you want me to do, and I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah. It's so hard. And so, like, I like I did baby steps, like I started with volunteering, and yeah, so I I volunteer at the Military Women's Memorial. Yes. Oh, I'll 100% plug that. So Military Women's Memorial. If you are a female who has worn the uniform, or you have somebody in your family who's worn the uniform, you go Google Military Women's Memorial, and then you can for free set up your own profile. And so the way I explain this to people is people in the Vietnam War, they have a giant wall. And then you go through and you go, like, oh, that was my grandpa, that was my so-and-so. Military women's memorial has that as an online database. And so anybody that comes through, you can search their name, you go into their museum space, yeah, and then you pull up, and then you go, oh yeah, that was my aunt. Oh, that was my grandma, oh, that was my so-and-so. And that's where our legacy lives. So there have only been three million women to ever put on the uniform, and we're trying to capture all of their stories. And so, like, I help them with events, and I'm and I was so grateful to be in that space. And I'm like, oh, you just want me to fold chairs? Cool. Like, I'll set up tables. I got you.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Yeah. Easy.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

You want me to fold little ribbons? I I'm a hundred percent. And the people there are just amazing. So, anyway, so I started with volunteering and then I dove into my kids and their lives, and it's like, oh, I'm gonna be the Girl Scout cookie mom.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Soccer mom, Girl Scout cookie mom. Yay!

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Bad idea.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

That's that's a lot of work. A lot of work. I think selling Girl Scout cookies, it's a it's very competitive out there, man. It's like dog eat dog world, like, hey, this is a good spot. This is my place. This is like it's a lot, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

But what's so funny is, and I wonder if it's an if it's a phenomenon around amongst people who get out, is that you feel like you have to fill your time. Yes, you know what I mean? And then so like you feel guilty having empty time. And then you're like, oh, let me take this on, and then and then you start looking around and going, but I'm not doing anything for me again.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Exactly. Where do I fit into this equation? Because I've given so much for over 20 years, 20 years a plus. When is it my time? And when is it okay not to be to just be? Yeah, exactly. I'm finally learning that.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Just hard lesson. It's such a hard lesson. And I think I finally got to the point where I was like, okay, I don't want to look like a healthcare administrator anymore. And my resume, I mean, I look like I bleed this stuff. Like I just, and so I'm like, I need a new network, I need a new skill, yes, I need new knowledge. And so I was like, you know what? I'm sitting on a GI Bill, and uh on a whim, I looked up George Mason University here in Northern Virginia, and I looked through all the degree plans, and there was stuff that was interesting, and then I had to have a moment I'm like, okay, where am I gonna write the least amount of papers? What's gonna be the least amount of intensity? Because I'm not trying to go to school to be intense, like I've already done that. I just master's in healthcare administration, yes, good. So then I started thinking about what have I never done? And I've never taken an art class. I've never because I was so like head down and like, oh, I gotta get out and I just do the requirements for whatever my degree was. And so now I am an undergraduate student at age 44. I'm an undergraduate student. Okay, studying art history with a studio art minor.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

I picked up photography, like I've always been the one with the camera, but it was always for memories, and now I'm like, oh, there's lighting, oh, there's nature, oh, there's isn't it so awesome when you just really like I've I've been into that lately, just with the nature and like some buildings and just capturing those moments and just it's so beautiful, so beautiful. And with the art and every oh my god, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

I love that for you. So I took it one step further, and uh because of the army, right? Because we have to be number one and stuff. Anytime there is a call for art, like there's random calls like uh in art organizations. I'm like, I'm gonna throw a photo at it.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Oh yeah, yeah, fine. We have to look into that because I love like everywhere I go, I take pictures, and everybody's like, your pictures are beautiful, they're actually hanging in my house. The pictures that I take, because I'm like, well, I want something different in my house, and the pictures I have up in the house, no one else will have anywhere. Yeah. So so I love that.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Find your local galleries, your local art organizations, and then there's always call for art. Some of them they get juried, and maybe you get picked, maybe you don't. Cool. But some of them, it's just like open call. Like we have a veteran workspace at a place called Workhouse Art Center. And so every month, if you're a veteran, you get to go in for free. They have an art therapist and he'll have a project, or you work on your own stuff. Awesome. I love that. Yeah, and then they'll do veteran call for art. And I'm like, here's a picture. So I've been on display in two galleries.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

That's amazing. I love that. I love that. That is awesome. I think that is awesome to be able to truly transition into something that is an unknown space, an unknown area, and you just jumped headfirst into it. Like, hey, this is what I want to do. Why not? That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

And then the part that I know you love, I am also a DJ at the college radio station. So if you ever want to listen uh WGMU Thursdays 10 to 11, I have the Mixennial show, the show where all generations are welcome. I love that. So it's they give you free reign. Like you get you can interview, you can do whatever you want, but I mostly just play music and I'll do you know a couple of clips. But my audience is one, whoever I give that link to. I was about to say whoever I would choose to hear, right? And number two, whichever poor student soul forgot their headphones in the student union, like that's who listens to my show right now.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

So you know that is awesome. So favorite genre of music. What what are you normally playing?

SPEAKER_00 41:31

So the library for music is very limited, which is really funny because it's a lot of 70s, 80s, 90s, and then it kind of like falls off right. So yeah, I'm like, I got this, I got this down. Oh yeah, I love that. Like I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Yes, like that new stuff, I don't want it. But in the 2000s and and and earlier, sign me up. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

90s alternative. If I could 90s alternative, like I would be. But I try to do little things like I'll find like whatever the national day is, like maybe it's national brownie day or cookie day, and then I'll do like a little. I I'm such a nerd. I love that. And I you know, try to get a playlist, but it's just an hour where I sit in the booth, and it's weird because you're in like a like they can see you, like there's a whole wall of windows.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Oh so you can see them, they can see you. Mostly students have their head down and then they don't care.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

They don't care. But you're in your own zone.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

The older professors that walk through, when I see like that, I'm like, yeah, they're vibing, they like it.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Like I'm doing that, right? Because those would be the ones who would be paying attention. The rest of them, they've got they're zoning out.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

So the professors are like, oh, like I like this song. Like, I remember that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Yeah. So if I can get one of those every show, then I'm like, all right, I made somebody happy.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Oh goodness. So as we're winding down, I have two questions for you. First one is what advice would you give to the next generation of women coming into the military?

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I love this question. And this is also one that I've done a lot of reflecting on. So, number one is go together. And we talked about this earlier. So there's so much cutthroatery, right? Because we're working on an evaluation and I want to be the best and I'm going to have the best numbers. Right. Once you get yourself to the point where you're the best, you need to turn around and give that playbook to everybody else. And here's why, right? It's not that you're not getting credit. You already get credit for being first at number one, but now you get to get credit for, and I mentored my peers and raised the whole organization with my method, right? So that's so much better than just I'm number one and I was number one. It's me, me, me. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And I think it was, I just saw a quote, it's Michelle Obama that's don't forget, like once you get to where you're going, don't forget to turn around and grab somebody and bring them with you.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Exactly. Exactly. And then let me see, number two is going to be never, ever, ever, ever, ever eat lunch at your desk and oh my god i know i was guilty of it too but here yes yes we're gonna talk about boundaries and yeah the generation after us right is who has been teaching me about boundaries but they're very good at it yeah and i'm here for it but as soon as you eat lunch at your desk what you're telling everybody above you is I'm always here right and you can expect me to be here and I'm accessible I'm always accessible you're teaching those below you like oh maybe I'm not supposed to go out maybe I'm not supposed to take 10 15 20 minutes to myself right like oh right always most to the ground yeah nobody's gonna remember that you were always there they're gonna remember when you weren't there because you already set an expectation that you're always gonna be there don't eat lunch at your desk and then when you're gone along with these boundaries right if you're on leave be on leave oh do not that's a word don't answer your phone because you have a very competent staff if you don't don't go on leave until you've trained them to be competent but you can't use a single point of failure that's failure there. Yeah like that's not a good thing if everybody's relying on you if you go to war and direct fire or you break your leg or family emergency or whatever yeah everything's gonna fall apart.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

No the army goes rolling along it sure does somebody need to be able and shouldn't you be the one to train the person to do that and show them the way so that you know what you're leaving behind. You know that you've trained them to be like hey no they got it they're good.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Yeah turn off the phone don't check the email and I I know we all like to hide behind well it's gonna be so much when I get back and it still wanna be there. It's still gonna be there and some of it is probably all like when you don't answer emails it gets resolved. Right?

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Like somebody will figure it out. They're gonna figure it out yeah and and true and truly if their email it's not life limb or eyesight. So you you know your critical thinking skills work. Y'all you figure it out somebody you know there's competent people all around y'all figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yeah and this that leads me to my my third point of advice because we're so worried about what people think of us you are more than enough number one and you are more than an evaluation and yes we spend too much time thinking that we're defined by this piece of paper or a record brief or our PT score. Right. And you know maybe that's not syncing in with how your life is going right now.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

And it doesn't matter like you could run yourself into the ground if you get a boss that you just don't sync with or you get a boss that's trying to take care of somebody else you're gonna beat yourself down trying to get this best of the best and it's never going to happen. Right. And all you're doing is just running yourself into the ground.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Exactly for what? Because you know we what I realized too is we have to live after the military and what good is it if your body's beat your mind is beat your spirit's beat down like how what are you giving to your family? What are you giving to those around you if you gave it everything there but no one ever poured back into you or you didn't pour into yourself.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Yep and nobody cares when you yeah at the end of the day nobody cares no one cares nobody cares does not how many of your peers are doing like 70% right right they're barely meeting a minimum. Yeah and just enough you're not gonna get fired right maybe promotion is a little bit do enough to get promoted right if that's your goal but don't the whole best of the best oh man it just it just gives you so many issues later on. Yeah it does it really does so that's my advice those are my three pillars of advice thank you for that and the last thing I want to talk about is can you please talk about the two books that you told me and put them yes so uh I took up reading when I got out because I finally had time to read and don't have the authors on me so we're gonna have to do some Googling but number one is called Brave Not Perfect and that one talks about both of these books that I'm gonna talk about uh have a gender twist to them and so it kind of looks at uh females and why we operate the way we do. So Brave Not Perfect really talks about you know why women are so scared to take chances and it's because we're so scared of failure. From the time we grow up as little kids we're told don't get hurt, we get coddled and so we don't have a strong sense of failure. Your male counterpart has been told to jump off the bed and get hurt and male. And so by the time you guys are competing for jobs they've already failed like hundreds of times and it just rolls right off. And then women won't even try things unless they're going to be the best or perfect. So Brave Not Perfect such a good read and these all of them are audibles too and so very easy.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

And that one Rishma Zani yes see look at you.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

That's because I look too that's because I look at you but you were quick on the lookup that's what I'm giving you kudos for. And the second one is drop the ball how to do more by doing less and I know her first name is Tiffany. I can't think of her last name and what that talks about is like sometimes in our households you know we as women take on so much more and it's because if you ask somebody why do you do Christmas like who does Christmas in your family? Oh mom does Christmas. Why? Well because grandma did Christmas because it's always been that way right because it's always been that way and then so she really gives the grace she talks about giving yourself the grace and how to develop a plan where you don't have to do these extra things right like you can everybody will be very happy if you don't and exactly if you want help in your household then you take the help that you get and you can't sit there and go well I'm gonna do it because I do it better. And how many times do we do that in the military where we sit there and we go if I want it done right I'm I gotta do it. But the only way that you get any of your time back is like you've got to let them and maybe it's a good way to do it. Yeah. But does it work then it's not wrong right? Could you have done it better? Probably but do you have time? But at least they did it. Right. Yeah you know so yes those are those two books I wish I had found those 10 years earlier because that would have put a lot of things in perspective.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Thank you so well thank you so much for joining today and thank you I am so honored that you shared your story with just being very open and honest about your journey and the things that you've learned in the military and that have helped you transition into this amazing person that you are now I am so grateful that you're one of my first guests actually to yes on Candid Conversations. So to everyone listening thank you for being a part of Candid Conversations and if this episode spoke to you share it with someone who needs to hear it and help us keep these stories moving forward. Until next time keep showing up keep telling your story and keep the conversations candid