Still Serving: From Soldier to Military Spouse with Natalie Sanders

Natalie Sanders shares her journey from serving eight years in the Army as a nurse to navigating life as a full-time military spouse and mother. In this heartfelt episode, we discuss the realities of transitioning out of uniform while still living the military lifestyle through a spouse’s service. From constant PCS moves and career sacrifices to homeschooling and managing the unpredictability of military family life, Natalie opens up about identity, resilience, and what continued service truly looks like beyond the uniform.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome back to Candid Conversations, the podcast where women who have served in uniform share real stories, real leadership lessons, and real lives beyond the rank. Today I have a very special guest, my friend Natalie Sanders, and I call her Foxy. She was in the Army for eight years as a nurse at LPN Elving, and she's been married to her military spouse for 18 years. Her service was completed in 2013, and in 2014, her husband switched from being Army Reserves to active duty. They've moved from El Paso to Fort Drum and four times since then. She has two elementary boys that are school age, and she currently homeschools her third grader. She's worked two part-time jobs since she's left the military, but currently find it difficult to work outside the home due to her husband's unpredictable schedule. And so today, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to Natalie Sanders. Thank you so much for being here today, Natalie. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you so much for joining us today on Candid Conversations. So I think it is awesome that you took the time out because I know you have your babies with you. And take a few minutes with me to talk about just your service and things that you've done since you left the service and also how it is to be a spouse of dual military, and then now you're a spouse of an active duty soldier. So, first of all, let's talk about you. Tell me a little bit about kind of why you joined and what was your rationale, your why behind it.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

So, whenever I was in college for maybe the third time, I was actually working at the bookstore at my university, and there was a recruiter that would come around to see the college students during lunchtime. And they would, of course, come in the bookstore and try to talk to people, and they talk to me. And I do remember that there were recruiters in high school, but I avoided them because that's just not my thing. I'm kind of a girly indoorsy type, right? So, but what was interesting was when I worked at the bookstore and we would have the students come in to buy their books, we would apply the financial aid to their book purchases. Okay. So I would see when people would have money from the GI Bill and how it would pay for their books. And I'm a very much I have to see it to believe it type of person. So when I saw how they were getting the all this money applied to their school, I was like, oh, that's legit, right? Like this is actually a real thing that these veterans are coming in and their school books are paid for. So I was actually pursuing nursing at the university and I kept on applying for nursing school, but I was not accepted. And I don't know if it was because I was a transfer student and hadn't done a lot of my basic credits there.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah. But I was kind of running out of classes that I could take in the meantime, waiting to see if I would get accepted for the nursing program.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, because you can only do that for so long. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Right. And so when I talked to the recruiter, he said, Well, did you know you can be a nurse in the army? And I didn't really know because I just didn't know anything about the military.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

So I still remember he sat me down and read me the army values, which is so cheesy. The leadership values. Right. Like it's so funny to me to think about that now. And I was said, okay, I'll think about it. And so, long story short, I did the delayed entry program. And then when I went to MEPS, they told me, we can get you something in medical, but it might not necessarily be a nurse. And that is not what he told me. And I said, No, I will walk out of here because that is the only thing I want to do. Good. Yeah. And so they quote made some phone calls and pulled the right strings. Oh my gosh. Right. So I was able to get I was able to get a nursing, you know, a slot, and then I went. So that was my whole I could be a nurse and then they would pay for my school. Yeah. I wouldn't have to buy books. I'd have insurance, you know, all the goods. Right. Yeah. And so I had still had to finish a semester of college and then I left in that next January, which was 2006.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Okay. So you're not from a military family then?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

I'm not. I had one grandfather that served in the Air Force during the Korean War, but I never talked about that with him. So I really had no idea. Yeah. Like what you were getting into. Yeah, right. No, no idea. Where did you grow up? I grew up in the Dallas area in Texas. Okay. Right. And so that was where I joined the army from. I had moved to East Texas at the time to go to school.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Okay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yes. So that is where I'm from. And then, yeah, the rest is history.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

So I think it's pretty cool. I know we have a personal friendship through the army. But let's talk about real quick before we get into that piece of it, because that's pretty unique. But I know you went to school in El Paso, I'm sure. Well, where did you go to school for Elvient?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Oh, I actually went to school in Washington State.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Okay, you went to J Okay, JBLB.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Gotcha. And your first duty station, tell us about that. How was that?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

So my first duty station was San Antonio. Okay. Because I requested to go back there. And so basically, me and my husband got married around the same time we graduated from school because he was in the reserves. So if he could have just gone home, but instead we got married so that he could go with me. So we moved to San Antonio. And then because of everything that was going on overseas, I actually got orders to go to El Paso less than a year when we had been there. Really? Oh wow. Yes. It was a very quick first duty station and I worked at the hospital in critical care step down.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yes. And then when I transferred over to Fort Bliss, I went to the combat support hospital and I had no idea. I was just shocked when I got there. I did not know what it was. I didn't understand why they just wanted us to run all the time. And we're just doing all these inventories. And I'm like, what is this?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Like I did not sign up for this. This is not what I thought nursing was going to be. Like, this is not no. It was not. So you got to El Paso in around 07 or 08? It was 2009. 2009. Okay. Gotcha. So being in a cache, you know, I was attached to them as a profus soldier. So I was attached to our range with you guys to uh middle Afghanistan. Before we really get into Afghanistan, talk about like mentors. Did you have any when you were in San Antonio or when you were in El Paso at all, being in the cache? Or were you just trying to figure it out on your own and just had people, you know, what was your experience like with that?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

I did have. Do you remember Sergeant Panon? Up to you.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

We're still friends. We're still friends.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Okay. Right. So he was one of my leaders that was really great and taught me a lot about, you know, just the army and nursing. I do remember him from El Paso. San Antonio, I don't recall as much because again, it was such a short time that I was there. I remember who was teaching me all about nursing, and they were civilian nurses for the most part, because that's who we worked with. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah. At Bamsey because it's so large and the turnovers so quick there that the civilians are the people who keep that thing running for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah. So those were the nurses that taught me everything that I learned outside of school, right? Because that was my first place to actually work on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah, gotcha. Which is full. So you are at Bamsey and then you go to so you're in a medcom unit and then you go to a forest unit. So one question is um looking back now, do you wish you'd have gone to ForceCom first and then medcom, or would you keep it the same?

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Oh, I would have a hundred percent stayed in medcom the whole time. I again did I say I'm indoorsy. Yeah, you're right. She's like, I'm girly, I don't want to do this. I did not think or no feel like this working out in the heat and and El Paso is extremely hot. It's extremely hot. You know, we survived it, but it was not fun. Yeah, not at all. But I guess looking back, it was good training for going to Afghanistan because it's a similar climate.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Very similar.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Looks very similar, so that was good.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Looks and feels very similar, right? So yes, so our time in Afghanistan, we were with 31st Cash. Yes, um, deployed to good old Southern Hillman province. I was there for nine months. How long were you there? Because I know you were there before me.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

I was there for 10 months.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Okay, so you got there a little bit before me. Yeah, that was definitely an experience. I'll say it like that. Yeah, right. So I'd already deployed before. I'd been to Iraq just two years prior with a BSB, but because of that battalion support, it was very different than a cache.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

So we were smaller, the BSV was smaller, and the cache had all these huge capabilities in this big old hospital, whereas in Iraq, I only had a TMC and minimal capabilities. Where so it was very it was a different world for me too. We had some pretty significant things happen down there in Afghanistan. What was your experience like there as a nurse being in that combat support hospital and treating the local nationals and being like a hodgepodge of people because we still had people coming from all over to make up this organization that worked together for like six to nine months total? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Right. So whenever I was deployed there, that was the third place that I worked at. So because our unit was really spread out through many different locations. And so before I started out in Kandahar just for a short time, and I believe I worked with the Navy nurses there. That was interesting. And then they transferred me to Bastion. And Bastion. Did you go to Bastion?

SPEAKER_01 10:53

I did not, but one of the other I want to call her name. She's Phillips now, but Trey Chang, she was at Bastion. She was at Camp Dwy Dwyer, right? Yeah. Right. Camp Dwyer with us. And then she went to, if I remember correctly, she went to Bastion. So, but no, I didn't get to go to Bastion. I went straight to Dwyer all nine months, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Right. So I had a great time in Bastion because I got to work in the operating room, which I thought was really fun and interesting. I was trained by the British nurses and operating room technicians. I loved being around that different culture because they have different names for things.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

I I always thought the operating room was fascinating anyway. And then to see it in that type of environment was honestly say it was both traumatizing and very cool. Because we saw people that came straight from the battlefield.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

We had to stable, you know, we had to stabilize them.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Right. And so that was not easy to go through. I don't know. I don't think you can really plan for that. You don't really know how you're gonna react. Absolutely. Until you're in that situation. Yeah. Right. But it was a good experience. And then from there I went to Dwyer. And then I imagined that after all the training that we did in El Paso, that I would be setting up the hospital and setting up tents, but it was already done for the most part when we got there. I think I helped set up maybe one tent and that was it. Which is good for you to find yes, those Alaskans sucked.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

So setting up that hospital was not a small task. So yeah, the whole thing. I meant that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

So it was already set up. By the time I got there, it was already set up too. I just walked in and everything was pretty much done. Which I was happy about myself. Right. I didn't want to be there anyway. I was very upset that I had to go because I just got to San Antonio to be an instructor. And then all of a sudden, like I was there for a few months. And then they pulled me. Which I was like, wait, is an instructor a special assignment? Why am I going to Afghanistan if I'm an instructor? That doesn't make sense to me. What? So I was very frustrated when I got there and did not want to be there at all. But it was a very unique and great experience. Well, it was an experience, I'll put it like that. Overall, it was a great experience. Right. Because I met some people like you and of course Lewis. And then my favorite RN ever is DP, who's now Lieutenant Colonel Del Pena. Right. So it was definitely worth it. Even though, so I will talk a little bit about the incident or what happened downrange real quick because I just want to get your take on it. So while we were there, our hospital commander was charged with sexual harassment and sexual assault of some of his soldiers. And he was pulled from Afghanistan. I guess I am not sure if you were directly affected by it. I was not, but some of the officers that I was really good friends with and worked with were affected by it. So I just wanted to kind of see or ask about that, if that directly affected you or or indirectly how it affected you, while you were downright.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

So I do remember, I wouldn't say directly, as in I'm sure some people had a memorable something that they might have gone on tour, or I don't know. I kind of knew what he was like.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

But I didn't really talk to him. You know, I was not like in his little circle.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

His circle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Right. I do remember, not funny, but the day that he was escorted off of the property, I was pulling some kind of security that day. Really? So I was sitting outside because I don't know if you remember they were digging the wells or something to put the big water containers in.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

So we had to monitor the contractors that were digging that for the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

But that was my job that day. And I saw him being taken away in a vehicle, and I really didn't know what was happening. I think I found out later. Like, wait, what? Right. So yeah, that was very interesting to me. And then I have looked it up on the internet just out of curiosity to see what happened since then. And to my knowledge, the punishment did not match the crime.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Not at all. He had forced retirement.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

And yeah, some people may have put their careers on the line just for outing him, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I know that. Yeah. Yeah. Especially the main one when she called him out on it. I knew that was very difficult for her, but and I commend her for doing that. Yeah. And for speaking up, which is has been so difficult. And for someone like him who was in the army for, I think at that time, over 20, 25 years, and went through almost every rank and every position. And he knew people. And so that's why we were in Afghanistan anyway to begin with. We weren't even supposed to be there. But he knew people.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, and I tell people I tell people that, and they're like, they don't understand. And I'm like, no, this mission was made up.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

It was made up. He went and knew someone at the Pentagon and was able to get us, put them on orders, and took 31st down to Afghanistan. They didn't even know where they were going out, from what I understand. With the Marines, yes, with the Marines. Which is crazy. Not at all. Not definitely different from my first appointment. So I'm like, this is some makeshift stuff happening. But that just goes to show how much power and how much influence he had with people. So he put a whole organization on orders to deploy. Insane. And so, like, with no, I don't even think, did y'all do GRTC or anything like that? No. No. Right. No. So no training, no previous training. Just here we go. As a combat support hospital. Let's go to Afghanistan and just drop a train.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Our training was he wanted everyone to do, I believe it was a half marathon length of a run around our motor pool to quote qualify us to deploy it to a place where we didn't. I know you were lying. What? Yes. It was like Oh my goodness. Never knew that. We're gonna do this with our gear on. And I remember I had a huge blister on my toe, and I was so upset about it. And it didn't make any difference if you passed or failed or whatever. We were still going. We were still going. Like I don't think anyone got cut from the list because he handpicked the people he wanted there too.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Like one of the uh ORPAs is a very good friend of mine. She was like, Yeah, I was duty stationed somewhere else. And he was like, Nope, I want her. That's how much power this man had, which is crazy to me. That's how much influence he had. And then I remember while we were in Afghanistan, just for the people who are listening, he made us do monthly runs in Afghanistan. I'll never forget. I got there the fourth of so it was right at the fourth of July when I landed in Dwyer. I think I was there maybe two days, and they were like, Oh yeah, we have a battalion run. I was like, a what? Right. Why are we running in formation downrange? Makes sense. And it was ridiculous. But yes, I think it was three, four miles we ran around the compound, like once a month or whatever, just because that was his fancy.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Right. And like I said, when I got to the cache, I will never forget when I signed in at the battalion or wherever we had to go. And there was an NCO there. And I really think the first thing that he said to me was, Well, I hope you like to run. And I'm like, what does that have to do with patient care?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Has nothing to do with patient care whatsoever. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

It's not my job. Like, what do you mean? Right. Yeah. That was a learning experience for me. I'll say that. It was very eye-opening. For me, I'd been in the army a little while. So I kind of like a little around 10 years. So I was halfway through my career at that time, at least. And so I was like, I'm. And so the sad part was I had already enlisted in death because I was over the 10-year mark when I signed up to be an instructor. They got me. And so it's not like I could be like, you know what? I think I want to say no to this because if this is how the army's rolling, I don't want to do it. I don't I was already locked in. So I didn't have a choice. After, like, it really made me question a lot of things Afghanistan did with how he did things. And it was the good old boy system in full effect with him and everything around him. So yeah. So to see him, someone step up and speak up was amazing. And I was very proud of her for doing that and being the person. And then when the other started coming, I was like, all it takes is one person to speak up when things aren't when you know it's not right. And so I'm very, very glad she did. And and even if he didn't, because I think he retired, they made him retire as a lieutenant colonel, and he's still rolling around on a pass over if he's not dead by now. So who knows? But I think it was the punishment definitely didn't fit the crime. No, but being escorted out of there, being removed from downrange was so impactful, and I'm glad that it happened that way. So it might have not got he didn't get the punishment that he deserved, but to remove him and take him from the thing that he loved the most, that was a little bit of poetic justice right there for me.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

I actually have a question for you, because this has come up since I've been out, is that no people now that have, for instance, a daughter that wants to sign up for the military.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

So if they talk to you and they say, I have my daughter, she's say 18, 19 years old and she's thinking about joining. Do you recommend? Would you say yes, go ahead and do it, or would you have some hesitation? Like, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Me personally, I will have hesitation, honestly, because of the current administration for me. Right. But the benefits of the military are so impactful to me. I personally, I will honestly say, I think everybody should serve for at least two years. Because the experience that you get with teamwork, with getting outside your comfort zone, dealing with people that some bosses you like, some bosses you're gonna absolutely despise. But it teaches you that even in these circumstances, I still have a job to do and I still have other people depending on me. So I have to figure out how to push through and be more not let adversity get to me and know that hey, change is gonna come. And I always say one of my mottos is you can't change the game if you're not in it. So in order to make change, you gotta be somewhere in it. But I personally say under the current administration, I will not. No, I just maybe say wait. I will say wait and see what happens, wait and see what happens. But for me personally, and I would love to ask you the same question also, because that is definitely something I asked most of my guests. I grew up small town, less than 3,000 people there and whatnot. And I was a very, very shy, reserved person, very shy and didn't talk to anybody. My friends from high school tell you that. And when I first joined the army, I was like, I did it to mostly get a trade, not have to pay. Because I was in college here in Charleston, and it was insanely expensive. And I was like, I don't have the money for this, and I don't want to be so in debt that I'm paying off student loans forever. And the recruiter, Sergeant Newsom, I will never forget his name, pounded me for two years. He followed, he kept up with me for two years because I don't know if he just saw something or whatever. And so when my plan didn't work out to go to the Air Force, I went to college. And so he was like, hey, you can go to school, get a trade, learn, come back. And if you want to, because I was in school for nursing also. He's like, if you want to, get that and get the GI Bill and go to school for free. And so I was like, okay, let's do it. And so joined the army with those intentions of, hey, just doing my time and going home. And somewhere along the line, I figured out I like this. This is easy for me, I guess. Or is it easy for me to fit in or join? Like I really enjoyed it. I really did. And I found my voice in the army. Like being able, you know, I never thought when I first joined in 1998 that I would be speaking in front of generals and sergeant majors. And like if you'd have told me that then I'd been like, you're out your mind, because there's no way. Me? No. But it pushed me so far outside my comfort zone and showed me what I could do and to really build my confidence. So I think I would definitely tell my, I had a daughter, I would tell her, or a young female, I would tell her, wait for another year or so and let's see what happens. Or maybe just wait out this administration. Right. And see what happens from there. But for now, no, personally, no. And what would be your suggestion?

SPEAKER_00 23:21

I agree with you on waiting a little bit just to see because it's very unpredictable.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

With everything. I mean, honestly, the Middle East is always gonna have turmoil. Is it? It has been that way since I was young, probably since before I was born. Yeah. I remember growing up and watching Desert Storm on TV. Yep, exactly. So I in my head I'm like, the only thing that's really changed about that is just the technology.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Right. Because now more things are done with the drones and less boots on the ground. Um right.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

But it's still a war, it's still people fighting.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yep. It's a little more impersonal now. You know, they kind of went with the IEDs and then graduated to drones, right? It's exactly there's a technology difference. I thought it was really interesting to learn about the Afghanistan culture. Yes, that was yes. It really makes you grateful to have first world problems.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah. I mean, like you said about you know that you can live in this austere environment and you will be fine. So I think that for us, even being here in the state, if we had a disaster, like say a tornado came and ravaged our county, like I think we'd be okay because we, you know, we know how to do things and we would probably step up and take control and help and do what we could, yeah. Well, do whatever we know how to do to help our community. I really believe that. Absolutely. It makes me not as scared, even for my kids. You know, yesterday I had to take my son to get his dental surgery.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

And of course he was scared. He's had surgery before, but I was like, you know that I'm like, mommy's a nurse, so I'm like, I know what to do. To be taken care of, and so it was a really good experience. But good. I'm glad to hear that. And maybe I was lucky, I really didn't experience a lot of the MST that people talk about. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

I'm saying I did not have that either.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

I did work with people that did though, so I don't know how common that is. I hope that with all the different programs they have, like Sharp and all of these things, I hope that there's more awareness and that it's making a change that it won't be as common. I don't think it would ever completely go away because people are people.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

People are people, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

But so I think it gives you really good experience. Like you said, it gives you confidence. I mean, I remember having to lead PT when I went through uh what's the school that you go to to become an So it was PLDC, now they call it, I think it's BLC now, basically your course.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Right. So when I went through that, and then you know, coming back to the cash, and then it's like, oh, you have to be in front of a platoon and give commands and all these things. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Yeah, I will say I honestly that's where it started for me was when I went through it was PLDC when I went through so so long ago. It was primary leadership development course and having to give PT. And I was like two, it was like six females in a platoon of like 40 guys. And having to give PT, yeah, and running, they were running, I was running a six to seven minute mile with those the oh my god, they wore me up. I was like, I can't keep doing this. Right. This is insane. But it made me step up and be like, you got this. And so my oh my gosh, what is he called? My cadre, he put on my, and I still have the paper now where he put, you're gonna be an amazing leader, you need to like I see you being a drill, a drill sergeant, uh-huh, and that is what I recommend for you. And just and so it built so much confidence in me to see some for someone to see that in me. And I'm like, maybe I can do this. Maybe I'm not just here flying by, I can actually lean into this, and that's exactly what I did. So yeah, yeah, all right. So I so thank you for talking about that with me because it was an experience, is like I said, and and it wasn't a great experience for everybody, it was just a learning experience. I'll say that much for a lot of us there in Afghanistan. But you come home and then you finish out your time, and now you're transitioning out of the military. And I guess what was your thought process with that and the reason behind saying, hey, yeah, I'm done. I did my time, I'm good, or this just isn't for me anymore.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Um, part of it was that I believed when I joined to be a nurse that I would be doing a lot of patient care. And then I can see that as you graduate through the ranks that you're doing more administrative work, yeah, and managing people, which I never wanted to do. I still don't enjoy doing that. I just want to do my job, right? Yeah, so I kind of saw that that was what was gonna happen, and so I thought, well, if I want to continue to work as a nurse, I need to get out to do my job. And then also I saw some couples that were dual military and how hard it was for them. Yes. And my husband, to be honest, I really did not know what his plan was. He had been in the reserves, and then when we were in El Paso, he did ROTC at UTEP. Okay, right. And so, and he also didn't when you go through ROTC, you don't know what your job is gonna be because the army picked. You can choose what you would like it to be, but it's not a guarantee.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yes, needs of the army, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Yeah, so he's a medical service officer. Okay, yeah. So he's stuck with the same area. And if I am being honest with you, I believe that he is great at his job, and a lot of that is because he has that experience. He was a CNA before he joined, and then he was he deployed to Iraq as a medic. Oh, okay, yeah. He was a nurse, but he was put in a medic role.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I really think that that has helped him a lot in the job that he has now because he's a medical planner.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Oh, yeah, definitely. Being able to see that from both off both sides is is great. That's definitely a great thing. Good.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

So because you do have some of the officers that he works with, they don't have that experience. They just went to school and then you know, now they're in the army.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Well, he's Yeah, and they're in these positions and have no type of background or anything to help them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yes. So, but back to being the dual military, and I saw how people have kids, and then you have to have a family care plan, and I'm like, Well, my parents are getting older, like I don't think we can do that. So that was mainly, I mean, I got out for multiple reasons. Okay. But I really felt like I had re-enlisted when we were in nursing school because I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

I also kind of knew about the IRR and I was like, I don't want to get recalled. Well, call me back. I don't want to do recall. And it's like if I was not in the situation that I'm in now where I have two children and a husband, you know, I would go back. Like if they I really feel like if I needed to, like if they were like, we really need people that are already trained, I would go. I would, but I just I cannot because of my kids. Yeah, yeah. Family kids and because of uh some back problem. Well, that doesn't help either, so yes. I think that kind of goes it kind of, you know, probably happens to a lot of us, but but yeah, so as he, you know, we moved from El Paso to Fort Drum, New York, which is a complete climate change because you're nauseous. You basically are moving from Mexico to Canada. I mean, that's a great way to put it. That's a perfect way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

It really was. And so um that also Fort Drum is a high deployment unit of army post. And so what I found there was as I had, you know, I had both of our kids there, and a lot of us would just be snowed in because it gets crazy amounts of snow. Yes, and then everyone we were on the um on post housing, pretty much everyone's spouse is gone. So it's just this community of like all the wives and children just trying to make it work. Oh wow, yeah, yeah, taking helping each other. Yeah, it's very challenging. So you have to find that community, but you have to go out and find people because if you're just sitting in your house, yeah, no one nobody's gonna know what you're doing or if you need help. Exactly. Good. So that's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

So yeah, that kind of lends me to the next thing I wanted to talk about is transitioning from being active duty to now being a spouse of active duty.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

I would say that it is more difficult for me personally to be a spouse than to be the active duty soldier.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

You know, when you are in the military, they tell you everything that you do, they're gonna tell you your schedule, they're gonna tell you when you need to eat, when you need to be at work, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:06

True.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

And so then when you get out, you have no structure. Yeah, you have to make your own schedule. So I pretty much immediately went into going back to school as soon as we moved. We had moved in the springtime and I started classes in the summer.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Oh wow, yeah, very quickly, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

And then I ended up I was pregnant, and so my son was due in the spring, and so I finished out the semester in the fall, but I was not gonna sign up for classes and try to have a baby and that's a bit ambitious.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

People do that, but that's not for me. It's a lot, that's so, but yeah, it's just we still have to deal with all these last minute changes, and I find that the community is sometimes they really don't understand the struggles of military families. It depends because there are a lot of military families around where we live right now. Right. So you can find group and you really just need one or two solid ride or die friends. Yes, yeah, absolutely. And because you need to have emergency contacts, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah, absolutely. Outside of your spouse, like, hey, I need people just in case if he's not here, I gotta have a game plan for this.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah. Right. And so what I did when we moved here, I really got involved in my kids' schools and I would volunteer as much as I could.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

That's definitely a great way to find other parents and snakes.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

Yeah. So I was able to find a very solid friend who is an Air Force spouse, and her husband is also close to retirement. So we kind of have all these years that we've you know been been the supportive spouses. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, and so that is really helpful to have people that have been there done that, and we know what each other is going through, and so that is you can find support through those kind of people that are living the same experience. Yeah, absolutely. That makes a difference. It really does because if you don't have that, it's so lonely.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, it can and I mean with children and everything, that can be very lonely too, especially being it's if you're not familiar with the military and how it works. Say you're a new spouse of someone who's in the military and you have no familiarity with it, you know. People isolate quite a bit, and they do um, and it's hard. And they but there's so many, there's such a great community out there, and sometimes it's hard to put yourself out there because you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know, you know, anything about this, but I definitely think it's worth it to at least try and put yourself out there and just see, like, hey, at least we got one thing in common. We're married to a military service member, nothing else. Let that be the basis for you to start a conversation, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Yes. And because I waited to have kids until I had part of my career, which you know, I probably will go back to work again at some point, maybe when my kids are older, a little bit more independent. When you become a parent, and then depending on what supports you have, yeah, you have to change your whole plan of what you're gonna do because you're gonna focus on your children.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

They come first. I was gonna say that because I was older when I had my kids, and so if I have people in the community that have kids that my age, a lot of them are in their 20s, and I'm in my forties.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

So it's just a very different parenting perspective to where I wouldn't say that you can't be friends with those people, but it's just so different that yeah, that's you're going through you're going through a similar parenting experience, but then you just have a different outlook on life. You know, we are raised in different, completely different generations, completely different generations, and then you have the life experience behind you.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Whereas there, if you're in your early 20s, you're still figuring out, you know, where you're even going, and now you're doing it with kids. Whereas you had a career, you know what you love, you know where you want to go, or at least in a direction. Whereas, you know, when think about it, when we were in our 20s, oof, right, having kids and trying to have a family and trying to lead family, I see that being extremely difficult and um tough. And if you don't, and you know, we typically try and gather around like-minded people and people who kind of see the things we do. And I can imagine it's tough to sometimes relate to those who are in their 20s versus when you meet people who are more in their 40s that are along that are aligned with you and like, oh yeah, I think like you, we kind of have the same shared experience. Whereas in your 20s, you know, they're gonna probably relate or be more aligned with those, the younger generation, which is okay. But I think it's important to find your tribe and the people that you align with, you know, that to see things the way you see it and raise your kids the way you kind of raise them, versus being in your, you know, in a different phase of your life, basically.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Right. Because I was volunteering at my son's school and the teachers were all talking about this and that on TikTok, and I'm like, I don't even use it that that much. Like, uh, okay, sure. Yeah, they're like, didn't you get that on TikTok? Well, no, actually I didn't. No, I really didn't, but uh sure, maybe I'll check it out later.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, that's not my thing, but sure, right? That's cool. All right, so I know you are your son, it's probably gonna be up soon, and I definitely don't want to take too much time from you. So I only have a couple of questions left for you. So we already talked about, you know, the advice of someone coming to you to possibly go into the military. I think this I want to ask, what would you say to a young lady who is in the military? What advice would you have for those who are honestly considering it or currently in if you have any advice for them to share that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

My advice would be that you should do what you want to do, whether or not if you want to stay in the military and you like it and you really think it's for you, like you did, you know, you did your time, you retired and you loved it, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

But there's also an option of you don't have to do that. If you don't feel that it's the right thing for you, they might try to tell you that you know you won't be able to make it on the outside. Well, you definitely can.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

But there are a lot of good benefits to it, right? And to be honest, we had a transition from our insurance, right? Because I had tri-care and then my husband went active, and so then I switched over to his. Right. So if that's a consideration, I didn't have a break in my medical coverage, which is a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

I mean, it's huge. It is.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Yes. And so you do have to consider a lot of things like that. Like if you are gonna get out and you might want to look at how much does it cost to have insurance and how much am I gonna have to pay?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Because insurance, both of them.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Right, because it's definitely a consideration that has been wonderful for us because I talked to some family members that have had kids and they have to pay so many thousands of dollars to have a baby in the hospital. And I'm like, well, we didn't pay anything. Nothing, coverage, yeah, like all your doctor's appointments will cover ultrasounds, everything. Everything, everything, everything, even if you happen to be high risk, or even if you had a baby that goes into the NICKI, which you never know what's gonna happen, you know, all of those things will be covered a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

100%. That's one less worry. That's not even a worry for you, you know what I mean? Right when you think about it, like that's a huge thing. You know, it is thinking about the medical aspect of it. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

It is so, but I think I mean, overall, I am glad that I got out. I do miss it sometimes. Yeah, but I miss you, I miss the people that we worked with, right? Because we had such a special bond. Do you ever read about trauma bonnie? Yeah, all time, yeah. We definitely know you trauma bond. Maybe that's what it was, but regardless, we still had a good time, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

We made the most of it. We did, even in the worst of situations, we still came together and did something amazing in FBI. Right. So we should all be proud of 1000%. Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Good.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

And I'm super proud of you, of course, for everything. One last thing. Are you currently reading any books? And if so, or listen to any special podcast, if so, let me know. Because I'm always learning or want to know like what you're kind of into right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

So I have a stack of books that I'd like to read. For the for the most part, if I will listen to podcasts, I mostly listen to true crime. Same.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

So that is there are a couple of people that I follow, and that is pretty much what I stick to. When we lived in Kentucky, there was a really interesting case going on that's still being investigated. And so the newscaster that does that, her name is Shea McAllister, but that's the one that I'm listening to right now. So very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah, I do. I love true crime also. I I that has just been the latest thing for me. So I've been, but I've been trying to read a couple of books as I try to finish out this master's degree. Sweet Jesus. Right. But yes, that's awesome. So, well, I'm gonna go ahead and wrap this up so you can get to your baby because I know he will probably say he'll be up soon. And after having surgery, just want to make sure he's doing okay. So I just want to say thank you so much, Natalie. I call you Foxy. That's so hard for me not to do.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

But thank you so much for taking some time out of your day and your very busy schedule to talk to me about, you know, just your experience in the army and definitely being an army spouse too, because it's it's very important. And I know I've always told when I was leading and told my soldiers, you know, the army, the spouse is the backbone of the army, truly. Because there's nothing that we can do without our spouses being there to take care of the home front. So I am so proud of you for not only serving, but now you're with your husband serving on the other side of things and doing amazing things and taking care of your amazing family. Thank you for all that you've done, all that you're doing, and I cannot wait to hear what is going to happen in the future. So I appreciate you. Thank you. I miss you. I miss you. And thank you for being on Candid Conversations. For those of you who are listening, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. So I want you to keep leading, keep listening, and always keep your conversations candidate.