Why Shift Work Breaks Traditional Training Plans Part 2: Aerobic Base, Zone Training, the Glycolytic Trap & Power for First Responders

In Part 2 of this conversation, the Tactical Trio goes deep into the how of training for first responders working rotating shifts, nights, court days, call-outs, and chronic fatigue.

This episode moves beyond general advice and breaks down the specific strength and conditioning principles that must be adjusted for police officers, firefighters, paramedics, corrections, and tactical athletes living in a world of disrupted sleep, hyper-vigilance, and unpredictable stress.

You’ll hear why aerobic capacity is the true foundation for shift workers, how zone training protects your nervous system, why so many first responders fall into the “glycolytic trap” of doing workouts that feel productive but actually worsen fatigue, and how to structure strength and power training so it supports the job instead of draining you for it.

This episode connects physiology, nervous system stress, load carriage, and real-world job demands into practical programming you can actually follow.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why a strong aerobic base delays fatigue from load carriage (vest, belt, gear, air packs)
• How heart rate under stress affects cognitive function, vision, hearing, and decision-making
• How to use Zone 2 training for recovery, longevity, and nervous system regulation
• When short Zone 4–5 intervals are useful (and when they are harmful)
• The glycolytic trap: why constant HIIT and hard circuits backfire for shift workers
• Why rest days are productive and essential for performance gains
• How to structure 2–3 full body strength sessions per week without overtraining
• Why first responders should stop copying professional athlete programs
• Movement-based strength training: hinge, squat, push, pull, carry
• How and why to include power training (jumps, throws, short sprints) safely
• Progressing plyometrics without blowing out Achilles, hamstrings, or backs
• The difference between training for sport vs training for an unpredictable job

If you’ve ever felt like you’re training hard but getting more tired, more sore, or more injured - this episode explains why.

This is essential listening for anyone interested in first responder fitness, tactical strength and conditioning, shift work recovery, police fitness, firefighter conditioning, and occupational athlete performance.

Send your questions to askthetacticaltrio@gmail.com!

** We were not able to attached the heart rate responded chart we referenced. Here is a reference and email us if you would like a copy: Siddle, B. K., & Grossman, D. (1997). Sharpening the warrior's edge: The psychology & science of training. PPCT Research Publications***

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Ask the Tactical Trio, where your questions meet real-world experience. We're three ATs and strength coaches with over 45 years working with first responders.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

From health and resilience to performance, leadership, and longevity, you ask, we answer. The perspectives shared in this podcast are our own and are intended to support conversation and learning. They do not necessarily reflect the views of the organizations we work with, serve, or are affiliated with.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Real questions, real experience, real tactical wellness. Let's get into it. All right, we are back with uh Becky, Tracy, and Anna, the Tactical Trio, talking about strength and conditioning for first responders and how it has to be different. Um, not because the principles of strength and conditioning change, uh, but because the physiology you're training inside of your body does change. It changes with shifts, it changes with stress, it changes with postures, it changes with all kinds of things. So previously we had looked at um just kind of like how do you know what to do on a particular day. Now we're gonna get more into the nitty-gritty of um uh some more strength-cogition principles. But first, Becky is gonna tell us uh how this question came about.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Okay, so for whoever was not able to uh listen to part one of this yet, early on during our podcast uh brainstorming days, I was in Starbucks and I spotted a canine handler. So went up to them and asked, because I'm always will go up to officers now and ask things, um and had told them about what we're doing. And he asked uh asked what he can do around shift work because that was in terms of strength and conditioning, because that he found that was a struggle with personal trainers that he had reached out to for programming. They don't understand how to adjust workouts around shift work, and so this is something that impacts all first responders. So I'm glad that we can answer it so early on.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Awesome. So for our first real question off of that question, uh, in tactical research uh in that world, there's a real emphasis on aerobic capacity. Why is the aerobic base so important for shift-working first responders?

SPEAKER_03 2:22

I'm happy to start with this one. Um, it gives that great foundation uh to build everything on, and especially more for their day-to-day work. Because they're wearing that load, they have that low carriage of their vest, of their belt, they need to have a good foundation of aerobic fitness to help delay that onset of fatigue that will start building up throughout the day. And that's an area that I think we can really dive into a lot, even with this question is the impact of load carriage and why strengthening deconditioning is so important for for load carriage. And I know for some they'll say, well, for police officers, it's not that much compared to fire or compared to military true, but it's chronic load carriage. They're carrying it for 10, 12 hours a day, and it starts to take its toll. So having that strong aerobic base is going to push back that onset of fatigue throughout the day, which is great because we want them to stay safe throughout their shift, but it's also going to help buffer some of those stress hormones that start to come on as we get more fatigued, right? So they can stay a little bit more balanced and a little bit more resilient, resilient um throughout the day, which then once again helps injury prevention both physiologically and psychologically.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

I think you have to think of it too this way: the load, and I know we were not going to talk about load, I think, on this question, but maybe we will go that way. Oh, yes, I know we'll pull you in, Tracy. Yeah, yeah, because it's just it just train, it's it's the entire system that gets under stress when you put load on it, right? And it's the heart, it's the lung, it's everything, right? And as soon as you put that gear on, especially for firefighters, their heart rate climbs super fast, right? Breathing gets super hard, and the fatigue sets in if they are deconditioned, even at lower speeds. In one of the agencies that I serve, all of our recruits go through testing um quarterly to show that they can do the essential functions of the job. And one of the interesting parts of that is, you know, some of the younger recruits will come in and be like, I'm super fit, like I'm not worried about this test. But then as soon as we put the gear on and we're doing the the exercise after the next iteration off the next iteration, by the time they have to carry a 24-foot ladder and set it up and raise it and climb to the top, they're out of breath. And I can see because I put their heart rate monitors on, I can see it just go through the roof, right? And then we'll get done with it. And I'll be like well, how do you think you did? They're like, that was harder than I thought it was. Like I didn't really condition myself. But even though I run three miles, it's not the same when you put that load on.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Absolutely. Absolutely. And something that you said about with their heart rate reminds me of something that, and I I give this talk to our new recruits before they started the academy as almost a selling feature for them to do more aerobic fitness. And what I do is I talk with them about their resting heart rate. You know, the better your aerobic conditioning is, the lower your resting heart rate. We're gonna see that drop down. We use actually use this chart at TSAC in our presentation in August last year, is the hormone response with our heart rate under stress, our heart rate jumps up like hormonally, not physically, like not from exercise, when you're exposed to stress. And when it starts going through these different heart rate zones, we start to lose our cognitive abilities, we start to lose our fine motor skills. And so if you can start your day on the shift or keep your resting heart rate lower throughout your day on shift, then when you hit that stress response and your heart rate goes up, you're still gonna stay more in that function well-functioning level of heart rate response, stress response before going where you start losing some of that vision and hearing when our system gets overly stressed. And I believe that was from the book on killing by Cal Grossman, if I have the name correct on that. Yep. Little and Grossman 1997. There we go. If we remember, we'll see if we can put this in the show notes. It's a very interesting chart because you can see at which heart rate level it starts impacting different areas of performance. And so if your resting heart rate or your heart rate on shift is already extremely high, you're not gonna have that much buffer space before you start losing some of your physical and cognitive abilities, which is a safety issue and a concerning thing if you're trying to handle somebody. So showing that really helps to seem to get early buy-in with them because they can see why it's important. And so uh, thank you for mentioning that part with the heart rates, because I think that would be interesting for the the the listeners. So I'll put that in the transcripts for one of us can.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

That almost takes me another direction, and Anna, you might have some thoughts on this too, because I know you're a very active runner. Um, the the zone training. Do you guys ever do zone training with your operators? That's a newer, it's kind of a newer concept. And for those listeners that don't know, there's like zones one through five. And in zone one, you know, you're kind of more of a resting. In zone two, you're kind of at like an easier pace, and then it kind of picks up from there all the way up to zone five. And so um, with the heart rate side of it, again, and because I'm a little bit of a dinosaur, as I said in the in part one, um, I like to have them focus on that zone training of where their heart rate is or even just where their breathing or their effort levels are on the training aspects to make sure they're not training too hard, that they're not building that cardiorespiratory system the exact way that it should be.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, it's one of the bigger mistakes that people make, I think, when they're doing cardio, even runners. And so I even remember, I don't know, many, many decades ago, the first time I was really researching marathon training programs, and um somebody suggested that your long run should be like two minutes per mile slower than your faster race pace, which feels so slow, and you feel like you're not working hard and you can breathe through your nose the whole time, which these days the cool kids are describing as zone two. Um, and um so I personally don't get to do any of that kind of training with our officers because I have people for that. I have beautiful, wonderful strength coaches, but they do program that in, um, whether it's a workout straight into like a certain amount of zone two time and they describe the feel of it for the officers uh and firefighters, or um the one that they had most recently this week was um shifting between zones two, three, and four for certain periods of time, um, which I love because I think that helps them get a feel and understand what it actually is. Uh and so um, so to answer your uh question, Tracy, no, I don't do that with my officers, but we do do that with our officers to our strength coaches, and uh and I think it's very helpful for them. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

Yeah, and that's it's it's a great one to use. It's one I've used for a bit, and it comes back from my my marathon running and coaching days, where I use it more right now is with um new recruits and applicants that I work with, because a lot will be like, I'm just gonna run harder. I'm just gonna run harder. And so their runs are only at 80 to 100% all the time. And so I try and educate them on, okay, well, we want to work this different system for this reason. We want to build a foundation, we want to use these different effort levels so your body learns that new stride, that change in pace. Going into that zone two can be uncomfortable for some, and especially this population, if you're in that more um hyper-vigilant state, slowing down, you're like, this is stupid. Why am I doing it? And I'm like, that's how you know it's the right spot. It feels so boring. Right, totally, right? I think there's a lot of memes out there because Peter Atiya had it in his uh Out Live book, and so zone two has been talked about a lot more in the past couple of years, and so I'm I'm sure there's a lot of memes out there. And a good way to even gauge it, unless you're well practiced with it, is you should be able to nasal breathe during it. I just say well practice. Uh, you're not well practiced because I do a lot of nasal breathing with my stuff and I almost gamify it like I did a stress test, and they're like, Oh, we only get people at this level, and like I'm gonna beat it. And I was doing it because of nasal breathing, but I've I've trained a lot of nasal breathing. Um, but it's fun, okay. Can you easily talk? You know, have a conversation during it, and it builds a great foundation. And what's also great about it is it's a very good one for longevity. So, yes, we want to focus on strength and conditioning talk for performance for work, but I always factor in retirement for whoever I'm talking to. It's like, yes, this is nice right now, but also how can we put some nuggets in there for your retirement? Because you're gonna work hard and I want to make sure that you have less homework in those last five last five years of work so you can have that healthy retirement, right? And so it goes well into um the longevity.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

So curiously, when you are working with your operators, because again, I think across fire, across law enforcement, corrections, right? We talk about all these different populations. Do you have a general guideline that you follow for if you are going to do a zone? Like, like for me, I'm like when we're on shift, I like mostly zone one or two workouts. I don't like to push them into three or five because they're already in three or five without even training just because of the hypervigilance that comes with the job. And I'm just curious where where you two are on that.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

I will do um the higher ones, uh shorter workouts, right? Because yes, you can do the zone two, but you need to do it longer for duration in terms of some of that impact. And so if they're we're getting them in the gym for a short period, I might have them work at that zone four, zone five at 15 to 30 second intervals and rest. And so they're they're done in 10 minutes. And so then we can do some recovery and bring the bring their system back down. And that will also get them, um, help them a little bit with any of those sudden sprints on shift and getting used to that power. Um, then they also the other benefits with it is if it's during that day, and it can actually bring them down from that that fight or flight phase, right? So maybe they're just finished a call, they're stuck in that that fight or flight, and they need to finish that limbic response. So getting them to do some some sprints or some sudden movements can actually then bring their their nervous system back into a better regulated state.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Mobility work. Mobility work.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Do you do you do that with your operators or does your strength coaches do that? Uh remind me what the question is again. With the uh with the zone, with the zone training or setting up their workouts. Is that more their strength coaches in your department?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

That's more the strength coaches in our department. I I have very little time for for working out with healthy people, unfortunately. So um so they will do it. We use an app, um, but they also will do one-on-one programming based on the individual goals of the officers. So sometimes I'll give some general advice, but I generally, because I trust our strength coaches so much, um, and they are such a great resource for the officers, and for me, I will generally refer that out and say, look, here's what I understand about it, here's what you can try. Um, but if you have time, make sure you check in with Coach Brandon or Nick or Travis or Jake and see see what they know from their experience. Shout out, shout out to all the people.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

And and for mine, um, because I don't do as much, I will do one-on-one, but it's usually more technique sessions. And so for for my like sworn-in civilian staff, I encourage daily walks, a just for stress relief, right? And it's amazing how much more productive you are, even if you go out around the block. And I know they spot me all the time. I'll do a lap around the block and go back in with my coffee. And I'm like, brain's not working, going outside. Um, and then I'll usually have them do uh say try and do like three cardio workouts a week. I'm like, use your cardio of choice because I'll often get that. Don't expect me to run. I run when I have to, but don't expect me to do more than that. And one will be a steady state, right? So then that'll be your lower intensity one, so zone two, maybe zone three. One will be a medium distance um interval, so it might be a two or three minute interval. So then we're getting up into the uh, you know, zone three, zone four. And then one workout will be that short intense 15 to 30 seconds, you're in zone five for it, bringing it back down. Um, what I also find challenging if I do intervals with the high ones, and so I'll only let them do this if they follow it, is take your rest periods, right? Because a lot of them, right? I don't have time, so I'm not gonna take the rest periods. I'm like, well, then we're not doing that high zone training because that high zone training, unless for very specific reasons, we want to use that for speed and for power, not to just try and burn off our stress, right? There's some other ways to do it safely because if they keep staying up in that high high state, then that's really hard on their system.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

So this is a perfect moment. I'm gonna skip around a little bit. So let's do it. Um sor sorry, I'm I'm I'm screwing up the plan, but um, let's talk about the glycolytic trap because we're edging up close to it in a couple of these conversations anyway. A lot of people fall into what you've called the glycolytic trap. Um, maybe we haven't called it that quite yet, but we were getting there. And especially when they're tired, they want to do that. They default to high-intensity circuits, HIIT workouts, um, and all just because it feels productive and um checked a couple of boxes, but it actually could be the worst choice in that moment. Can one of you unpack uh why that kind of training can be so costly for shift working first responders sometimes and why that can backfire when the nervous system is already so stressed out?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Oh my gosh, I am not talking about this, but I will give you the dirty plainness of it. If every workout feels hard, that's probably not right. And now I will pass it to Becky to decide.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Absolutely. I I think that should just be the quote for that. You should not try to kill yourself in every single workout because you're pulling bricks away from your foundation in really obscure spots and it's gonna collapse on you at some point. So I love it. And we don't have to get into the the science of of the fancy words there. But uh I do see this a lot, right? I we see a lot with first responders wanting to do that high intensity all the time. Um, you know, I think part of just seeing so many go into CrossFit is is part of it. We see them go, go, go. And one can argue that part of that drive to do it is that is a familiar and friendly place for their nervous system. They like it, that it's what it actually feels safe to them is the go. And then when they're forced to slow down or told to do something slowly, it's uncomfortable because part of their nervous system, it can feel unsafe. And so if you're you are an operator listening to this and you wonder why you're always wanting to work out hard and you don't like that slow part, it can be connected to your nervous system, and it's no fault of your own. If you're on that job where you're hyper-vigilant, that becomes very familiar and safe feeling for your nervous system. And so then going down into that calm aspect can actually feel very unsafe and unregulating for somebody. Um, but yes, it's having that high intensity um all the time is is tough because it's gonna spike that cortisol or keep it elevated. Once again, cortisol is a good thing. Um, it's not something we want to avoid, but we want to make sure we come back down after that cortisol spike, right? And if we keep hammering our body before it's had time to repair from the stress we've given it, we're gonna see that overtraining. And instead of saying growth, you're gonna start to see that breakdown.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, I was gonna say this where I see a lot of the injuries start to come in, the little itises and the things. And I'm, you know, you sit down, you ask them like, all right, uh, you know, you're a paramedic. Like, tell me a little bit about what you're doing. Oh, I'm doing this and I'm going hard here, and I'm going hard here. And I'm like, okay, where's your rest day? Well, I don't have time for rest days. You know, I'm training for the next marathon, I'm training for the next triathlon, I'm training for the next. And I'm like, okay, so not only do we have a very aggressive um training regime, but we also have a very physically demanding job at work as well. And so uh I think maybe this might be a good time. And I don't know, Anna, if you want to take it or Becky, or I will, on just how do we get out of this? How do we get out of this if we find ourselves, you know, listening today and we're like, oh my gosh, that's me. How do we get out of it? I got, I'll start it and you come come on in. I think the way to get out of these things, if you find yourself there is the first one is actually plan a rest day into your routine. So if you look at your seven-day workout schedule, even if you're training for something, plan an easy day or a hard day. If you don't want to go the route of I can't take a rest day, that's fine. We like active rest. So make it an easy day, make it a hard day. So that way you're giving yourself a little bit of a break.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Becky, what do you think? Absolutely. And as you're saying that, it reminded me of something I learned a few years ago because I've been in this boat before. Like I've done like marathons and ultra marathons, and early on in running those, I was running like five, six days a week. So I'm like, I gotta get the mileage in. My last ultra that I ran, I would run three days a week, and it was a 92 miler, so it was not that many times a week, and I actually did better. And it's one is buying in, and this is easier said than done to rest is productive, and I want to say that again um because I think it's important for ears to hear. Rest is not a sign that you're lazy or that you're being unproductive, it's incredibly productive, and I have seen some of the biggest strength gains in my officers and my my applicants, because I see this a lot in people trying to get into policing, when I make them take a week off and all of a sudden they get the big change. And I'm like, you're you're applying so much stress to the body with great intentions, and so yes, your your work ethic is great, but we need a chance for your body to actually repair and actually build new structures in your muscles, in your system for you to get stronger on getting that taking that leap of faith that first couple times of taking that rest can be very hard. But once you start to feel that change, then you're like, oh, okay, I don't don't have to do it, do it all.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I cannot add to that. Then those are fantastic answers. And and it kind of takes us back to summarizing this um glycolytic trap. Um, it can feel productive, but it actually costs you on a physiological level. Uh So looking at just, you know, maybe once per week's max when you're well rested between shifts or on an off day, go super high intensity and enjoy that. Um, but be be very careful about how you choose those days because sweaty does not mean effective uh for a sleep-deprived brain. Just uh if nobody has anything else to say about the glycolytic trap, we have not talked about strength yet. Are we ready to move into that discussion?

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah, let's jump into it.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah, let's do it. All right. So even when we're talking about all the shift work and fatigue management, strength is non-negotiable for first responders. I um I'm the least tactile person um in my work environment. And um, I'm just feel so lucky to work with the people that I work with. And I just look at the things that they have to do that require maximum strength and grip strength and posterior chain strength and trunk stiffness. But the dose has to change uh to accommodate for what we were just talking about, which is avoiding the glycolytic trap and allowing for recovery time and not cutting into our sleep time and not making our sleep lower quality. So, how should strength training be structured in that context when there are so many um seeming obstacles in the way?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah, I I think the first part really needs to settle into folks. And personally, the observation that I have is we're so wrapped around the cardiovascular component with these jobs. And strength for me is always the foundation. And I think some people make the mistake to keep building, like they're trying to um build a lot of different things that they're that they're trying to maintain. And it's like, hey, just focus on the strength aspect right now, and then let's focus on the mobility or the flexibility or you know, whatever the other things are that you're working on. And so I like to look a lot at uh a lower volume, but a higher quality um if I'm building that particular strength training routine. How about you, Becky?

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Absolutely, is um that lower volume because you still don't need that much for strength gains and for some mass gains. So, unless you are planning for a bodybuilding competition where you're really trying to put on large muscle mass in a shorter period of time, you don't need to be working out those five days a week. You know, two to three quality full body workouts per week is going to be a benefit to you. If you're one where you need more regular routine of working out, doing microdoses is another one where you can still have that same volume, but it's spread it out across five days a week. So instead of maybe three one-hour workouts a week, you are doing six, 30-minute ones, and you can still see that benefit. I think where people get stuck a lot is in some of the nuances that are a little bit more applicable to those professional athletes chasing that one, two, three, four extra percent in terms of performance. What really strength it comes down to is consistency, and so what is feasible for their work shift and having a nice balance. And so, what I think would help with some listeners too are well, then if it's full body or it's only so many days a week, how do I get some of those exercises in that I need to to get in? I think it's important to like what I like to share the way we like to do stuff. Um, I like to look at it as movement based versus body part based. So do are they doing a hinge? Are they doing a squat? Are they doing a lunge or a stagger stance movement? Um, do they have a vertical pull, vertical push, horizontal pull, horizontal push? Are they doing a carry? Because then you can have, you know, three full body workouts in a week on that structure, but you have a lot of flexibility in there and it can keep it interesting. Yeah. Anna, what would you like to add?

SPEAKER_00 26:00

So I just really wanted to emphasize, because I think it's so true, so many of our officers and firefighters are big fans of professional and elite athletes, and then uh create these expectations for themselves so they can operate um similarly to them, even though professional athletes, that's their whole job is to get all the sleep and they get all the rehab and they have all the recovery modalities and they have um access to nutritionists and sometimes personal chefs and all of these other things that make it easier, not easy, um, but easier than someone who's got three kids and uh gets called out all the time in weird times of the night and has no consistent schedule and is pretty stressed out and um maybe is taking care of aging parents and like with not um any kind of elite help and having to also cook their own meals and fill the gas tank and go do the grocery shopping. And so I just wanted to shout out to all of our firefighters and um officers out there that don't put that pressure on yourselves. It's an entirely elite sports, it's an entirely different lifestyle um than we're living out here in the real world. And so don't expect that out of yourselves or out of your body, it's not gonna last long.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Absolutely, absolutely, and you're saying that just made me think of a great thing on it is they are living in a very, very calculated and controlled world. As operators, you're living in the exact opposite of that. They know when they have to perform and when that challenge is going to be and what it's gonna look like. You have no idea. Maybe, maybe if you're on deployment with military, maybe you might have a bit of an idea, but even then, there's still so much surprise. And so straight coaches for professional athletes, high-level athletes, they can stress them really hard in the gym, being like, Yeah, you're gonna take a couple days to recover, and that's okay. To do that as an operator, you're potentially putting your life and your partner's life at risk if you have a hard leg day and you're going on patrol and you're walking like Bambi, right? You're not gonna produce much much power with those legs. So it's something to be mindful of providing enough stress to the body for adaptation, but being able to recover and still perform your duties.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, that is so very important. So um, we've talked about a couple of aspects of um strength and conditioning and the principle of conditioning and the exact phrase there is escaping me right now, but we haven't talked about power yet. So power training is often overlooked, uh, but in the research that shows up as really important for tactical populations. Why is that so important? And how do we incorporate that into our busy and sleep-deprived lives?

SPEAKER_03 28:54

I can jump on that one right away. Well, first, power, if you think of what like police officers, fire corrections have to do, you're responding to another human being. You're going to have to grapple with them. You might have to chase them, you might have to fight them down to the ground. Um, you might have to use a battering ram to open up a door where you suddenly have to be explosive. And so we don't want to miss out on power training. Now, the nice thing with this is it doesn't have to be a lot of volume. It's something that you want to do at the beginning of your workout. You want it to be lighter loads. So if you think about one rep max, you want to have it in that lower mid-range uh load depending on how fast you want to move it, but it'll still be effective. So maybe 50% of your one rep max, but going as quick as you can with it. Getting in a couple sets at the beginning of your work rate is a good way to get a the nervous system ready for the workout, but then also practicing that quick movement. Um, anything you want to add to that, Tracy?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah, I think on the the power side, it just a word of caution. So, and and I say this because I I do see it where people are like, oh my gosh, I'm not doing any medicine ball throws, I'm not doing any jumping, I'm not doing any, you know, short sprints or even explosive step-ups, right? And you think about like the firefighters, like, you know, this is your overhaul task, right? This is your power task of that. This is humping the hose, right? All of that is part of it. And so I think if you're going to you hear this today and you want to jump into it, let's make sure we're doing it the right way. Because any of you over 40, I can't tell you how many Achilles tendon tears I have seen or how many hamstrings I have seen. Because today was the day that we decided we were gonna throw a medicine ball at the wall and blow out our back at the same time. I mean, it's this real, and these things have happened. I've seen it. And so building into that nice and slow, and Anna, you're really good on the rehab side of this. So maybe you've got a great progression. I can't think of on the top of my head right now, but maybe you've got a good progression on how to ease into this.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Uh, so I actually have, and it's an old book because I am also a dinosaur, um, a book. RAR. Yeah, just about uh plymetrics. Um, and so how I explained it to officers is that it is dosed. And so, and I don't actually don't know where the science is on this now, but it's just a good principle of progression. Like runners all the time will go with don't do more than 10% of mileage every week or don't increase more than 10%. There's no science behind that. But kind of helps the world he's into it, and so um, so I use the old school, I think that you're supposed to start with like 30 foot contacts in a day. And so, depending on what condition they've had, um, yeah, and I'm and I may be remembering that wrong, um, and what kind of jump we're doing, I sometimes will fudget depending on the officer, but during the rehab process, I'll just which feels like nothing. Um, and it will depend if they've been doing jumping jacks or things that people don't tend to look at as obvious, like jumping or power moves, then I might advance them a little bit more quickly. Um, but um, but yeah, I go old school with the old jump. It's called the book is called jumping into plant metrics. And so don't don't email me if you hate that book or you think it's trash. Um I don't care. Um, because it's worked for me. And uh because it just it gives us a stopping point to ask the question, how do your joints feel? Um, how do your your tendons feel? And then I and I have to give this talk a lot because we don't have any age limit for our academy recruits. And um sometimes I just have the like there's no need to be a hero in this moment. Um, so we don't need the 48-inch box to start with. Maybe a six-inch box jump is enough to just see how we feel, especially if there's somebody who's had that struggle with chronic Achilles teninopathy, or they want to do plymetric push-ups and their bicep has been annoying them for quite some time. Um we just have a lot of good, like, I call them pep talks. Um, I don't think they're discouraging. But uh, I we just have a talk about the realities of being 35 and up and how long it takes your body to adapt to things and how your body can still adapt to so much and do so many great things, but it needs a little more recovery, it needs a little extra time to ease into those things. I think Tracy, you found the research. I did. Gosh, I love technology.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

So you probably have a trade. You're actually very close. So I pulled up a quick question in open evidence. If you have that app, it's great. It checks all the research real fast here. And so it says uh in in the strength and conditioning journal, which is kind of you know, pretty much we would agree, close to the gold standard of a journal out there. In 2024, um, there was a research article published on evaluating the effectiveness of consecutive phases of plyometric jump training. Now, this is soccer players, so we got to take it with a grain of salt, but it said essentially we're looking at 60 jumps per session, one session per week. Um, and those individuals were able to maintain performance gains in male soccer players. Um, and then those that did 55 foot contacts per session with a starting volume increased 10% weekly over nine weeks, produced significant improvements. And so I think hovering around that 55 um contacts per session starting volume is the direction that you should go. So, you know what, you were not very far off with foot contacts. I think the key part that Anna did get right is the progression of it, easing into it, you know, again, one session per week or two sessions per week and not not going too fast. This is not a hard and fast, especially those of you over 40.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Just real quick, because I didn't think we directly address this, but the reason we do this at the beginning is so you're not exhausted when you try it. So 100% do your warmup, get your power done, and then move on to other things. And now, because uh we're just great at podcasting and we're running out of time, um, I'm just gonna hammer home all the takeaways from this great session. And we actually have some research um that we're gonna talk about in another episode. There's a new ACSM statement out um that's really exciting. But just to kind of hammer home everything we've talked about is stop chasing optimal. Um, we are looking for consistency with all of this. Um, and stop copying elite athlete programs, uh, especially the elite athlete programs. And that doesn't mean that you're not elite. It's just a different kind of elite. Um, and then stop feeling guilty for imperfect timing. You are human, you are beautiful, there's no reason to shame yourself if one of the kids gets sick and you get no sleep, or the shifts have you tired, or you get called out, or you have court all day and then have to work all night. Those are very, very real challenges that you're facing and you can't do anything about that. So no need to shame yourself or feel guilty. So uh hopefully this has been helpful to everyone. Of course. Uh hopefully also it's maybe jogged a couple questions out of you. And so bring us those questions. I don't remember the email address, but one of the other ladies will give it to us.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

You can send us questions at askthetacticaltrio at gmail.com. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Are we gonna do a quick question of the day? I love what you put. We got time. We got time. Your favorite pro sport since we're talking about sports. Your favorite pro sport. I'll go first. Rugby.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I think it depends on if I'm watching it on TV or watching it in person. Um, in person, I love a good baseball game, mostly because you don't have to watch that closely to know what's going on. And you go with a friend and you chat through and you drink your beers and you have a good time. And it's usually spring or summer and the weather is great. Um, minor league baseball specifically um is my favorite, I'll say. Becky?

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Okay, we have to go with pro, huh? Because I've gotten strangely addicted to U15 hockey because my nephew is playing. Um, I'm about to it's it's not hockey. Um, but my favorite one I used to play rugby. I love watching rugby. I can always watch a rugby game. Fantastic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Cool. Thanks everyone. Excellent. And remember to follow us on Where You Watch Your Podcasts. Thanks for being here with us today. If you have a question, make sure you send it in. We are super excited to build this with you. This is Ask The Tactical Trio.