He Was Slowly Breaking Her — Until She Did THIS | Batya's Real Story of Abuse & Healing | Talk2Tamara

In this podcast, we talk about something 

that so many people are living through 

but almost nobody says out loud.

Batya has been married three times. 

She survived an abusive relationship. 

And now she is living a completely different life.

In today's episode she shares —

✅ How to recognize love bombing

✅ What emotional and verbal abuse actually looks like

✅ Why leaving is so incredibly hard

✅ Her healing journey and learning to trust again

✅ How she finally found the right person

👉 If you or someone you know is going through 

something like this — this video is for you.

━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

📌 Find Batya on Instagram: @makeupbybaya

🎙️ Host: Tamara Gestetner

🌐 Website: tamaragestetner.com

📩 One-on-one coaching: DM on Instagram 

   or visit the website

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Whenever you are in a place where you lose sight of who you are and your own self-esteem, self-worth, self-identity starts to slip away, even if it's slow, because a lot of times it's slow. I'm sure you know that expression about the frog and the water. Yeah. So whenever you're in a place where you start to like lose sight of yourself, that is an incident. You shouldn't ever be in a place where you can't, you know, form your own identity.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Hi, I'm Tamara, a therapist and coach that's exploring relationships, emotional health, faith, and real life challenges that many of us were taught to keep private. Together, we'll talk honestly about the questions, the struggles, and experiences that many of us carry quietly and finally give them a place to be spoken out loud. You are listening to Talk to Tomorrow. Welcome back. So today we're talking about something that a lot of people are living through, but almost nobody is really talking about it or just saying it out loud. What it actually looks like to be in a relationship that slowly breaks you, and how you find the strength to leave. So today I am here with Bot with Baya, also known as Makeup by Baya, on Instagram, who has been through more than most people talk about openly. She's been married three times. She experienced an abusive relationship and is now in a completely different place in her life. One that looks and feels very different than where she once was. And today she's here to talk about what that journey actually looked like. So hi, Baya. Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited. I've been wanting to do this for so, so long. So before we get into it, why don't you just take us back like a little bit? Um, well, I'm sorry, before we go back, can you tell us more about your life today and what that looks like and what a healthy um being in a healthy marriage looks like for you now?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, sure. First of all, thank you so, so, so much for like making this work. Um, you know, I've I've known you for so long, and that's why I feel like nice and comfortable coming here and talking to you about it because these are hard issues to talk about with just anyone. Um, so thank you for that. Um, yeah, sure. So my life now, thank God I'm in probably the best place I've ever been in. And I don't say that lightly at all. Like that really, you know, means everything and more to me. I never thought that this is where my life would be. Thank God I have a husband, Ben, who is just the most incredible person in the world. Like, it's he's amazing. Um, we have two little kids, so that's a bit nuts and hectic, but really, really, really fun and good times. Um, we're renovating a house that we just bought together. We have a makeup company together. Um, and life is just full of adventures, really exciting. Um, and thank God, like I I just have the right person to share it with. And I hope that for him, I'm the right person to share it with. And we're always trying to um, you know, do the little things to like really just make each other's burdens a like a little bit more manageable.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

So yeah, and that probably looked very different when you were when you were married. So why don't you take us back now? Um, so your first marriage, just to give context to our viewers, can you say like a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, sure. So we were very young and dumb, as they say, but you know, not young and dumb in the good way, where they're, you know, young and dumb and like you'll figure it out. We were young and dumb, but we didn't figure it out. Um, we were just the wrong people for each other, and we kind of left with a clean break. Um, we just we just wanted different things out of life. Um, you know, wish him all the best. Like it, it it wasn't a big like drama or anything like that. We just kind of both um realized that we weren't a match. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

And then how long from when from your first from your first marriage to meeting your second husband?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah. So it was, I think around like a year, year and a half, two years, something like that. Um, I was, I think, maybe 25. So I'm still young. But um, you know, at that point a lot of my friends had um, you know, had already had their first or second kid or whatever. So life is starting to kind of, you know, shift in that way. And I kind of felt like, okay, like I need to, you know, move on with my life. And um, yeah, I kind of just felt like I needed to like move on with my life. And um, I thought I found the right person for me. And um, we were actually long distance for a little bit because he lived overseas. Um, so we dated long distance, and you know, he flew into New York first. And it it was now looking back, um, you know, like wow, that was like love bomb bombing. But back then I was like, he's so you know, he's so amazing. We went to different restaurants every night, like we could talk about anything. Um, we would just be up, you know, talking and and and sharing experiences. And I and I was like, wow, like this is what real love should feel like. How long did you date for?

SPEAKER_02 5:32

So we dated around uh a year. Okay. Yeah. So that so that and during that time, were there any like red flags that looking back now that you can see? Because when you're in it, it's like hard, it's really hard to like see those red flags.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, so there definitely were. Um, but also like I mentioned, we were dating long distance. So basically we would like spend, you know, a week um in Barcelona, or like we would be doing kind of things, meeting in different parts of the world, or I would bring him into my world for a while. So like any little things were kind of easy to ignore because once our time was over, it wouldn't like fester, you know? It would just like we would just focus on the good things and not be as analytical. But yeah, there were for sure, for sure red flags, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

It almost sounds like he whisked like he whisked you away to these exotic places and you were kind of like caught up in that excitement.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah, and also the excitement of like being part of a new, you know, I I always love to go and explore and see new people and experience new things. So like even just being, you know, in his like hometown or experiencing that was like something so cool for me. Um, and I think I kind of like let a lot of the negative things like be very like quiet, like, you know, quietly hidden. Um, even though, you know, after we got engaged, I definitely started seeing them more and more. And I would confide to my friends and like my mom and things like that. And um, everybody would say, like, okay, this is like you can't just ignore this. Um, but anytime I would like try and talk to him about it or communicate those things, he would say things like, Well, like I'm moving across the world for for you. Like, of course I'm stressed out. Like, after I move, like it's gonna be better and we're gonna, you know, solve all these issues. Um, so there was always kind of like an excuse as to like why um, you know, I would see like a different side of him. And then that different side would clot would go away and it would be the person that I fell in love with. So it would be very for very like short amounts of times, I would see like a different side, more of an angry side or more of a controlling side. But then it would kind of like go away pretty, pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Can you expand like a little bit more about what those like red flags were like exactly? Like what was he doing that was making you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah. So he would be very subtly putting me down. Um, but to a point where like you can laugh it off, or you could be like, wow, this is insulting. Like I remember even when we were engaged, there was this one incident where I was like, Oh my gosh, like I just picked my wedding dress. I was like all excited about it. Obviously, I work in the bridal industry, so I wanted something a little bit funky and different. And I was like, it's like really cool. And he was like, Oh, like I'm sure you picked like a weird dress to embarrass me and like and like show me what it is right now. Like, I need to see it. Like you're gonna try to embarrass me at the wedding. And I was like, What? So, like little things like that, and then like I would just kind of and I I think I did end up like showing him the dress, even though I really wanted it to be a surprise. Yeah. Um, but I remember just having like a bad taste in my mouth, being like, this is not what it should feel like. I shouldn't feel like, you know, kind of almost like bullied into doing something. And I kind of started like, you know, wearing, not, you know, I I wouldn't say like I wore down that quickly, but like different parts of me, different like stronger parts of me would kind of like um have to, you know, um stand, stand back a little bit. And like I wasn't being my true self. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Because did you feel like you had to hide certain things from him, like about you, you know?

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, like different things would be just met with like criticism or negativity. So I I I maybe wasn't like as open at a certain point because I knew that if I said something that would upset him, um, you know, I would get like a reaction that I didn't want. And and again, I wasn't being my full true self around him um in those instances. Yeah. Cause I was because there was definitely like a little be a little bit of fear there, a little bit of like, you know, walking on eggshells already starting to form.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Yeah. So you were um, so that was when you were engaged and then you got you got married. Yeah. Um, and how long into the marriage would you say that you started to see these uh signs happen?

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah, so it's it's really like a wild thing, and looking back, it's it was a blessing in disguise, but it was literally the day after the wedding where I woke up and he woke up and we got some news, and and he was so mean about it, and he wasn't, and I just felt like, oh my god, like this is what I was scared of, and it's like coming to fruition. Wow. And it was literally the day after the wedding where I was like, like I can't believe that you know, I thought that things would get better, and and um yeah, from that day on, like there was no semblance of normalcy anymore. It was like, okay, I got you, and and that, and that was that.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

What did you do like when you got up that morning and saw that?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah, I was really scared and and I think I even called a friend or two about it. Um, but you know, from that point things just kept getting worse and worse. Can you give us like examples? Like so it became very hard to like live a normal life because every single action that I would take, I would think about it a million times to make sure that it wouldn't cause a reaction. Um, because the reactions were really bad, like they were forms of punishment. Um, so they and anything could set it off. It wasn't like, oh, he didn't like X, and if you did X, that could set him off. It was little things that like I didn't premeditate. Like, for example, one night I made dinner and I put hot sauce um next to you know his plate instead of sriracha, and he got really upset and he was like, You did you're doing this on purpose. And then those kind of things would lead to punishment. So those punishments would look very different. So, first of all, there was the, you know, bullying and putting me down in words and you know, like um calling me names and telling me that I'm my mom and dad are nothing, and that and that's why I'm nothing and we're low class and things like that. Or they would be like, so he would like really insult me and try to make and try to like push my buttons, try to like figure out what would hurt me the most and kind of like start saying those things to like really like upset me and like cause a reaction. So and then once he got the reaction, like he would be calm, like he would like calm down. Like he just wanted to rise. Yeah, from so that was one method. The other method was he would ignore me for days um if I did something that he didn't like, if I um kind of like broke one of his rules, whatever. I I and I never knew what those rules were. So they would like hit me and then it'd be like, okay, he wouldn't talk to me anymore after a certain point. And would you just stay silent or would you be like, tell me what's wrong with that? Unfortunately not. Looking back, I should have done that and I know so much more now than I did. But back then it felt really like anxiety-inducing. And I wouldn't, and I wouldn't be able to do that. I would just cry at him and beg and plead to like talk to me, and and it felt like my soul was like just like a rag that what you weren't like, you know, twisting and turning. And like it was really, really horrible. Um, so that's one thing that he would do. And then he would do things to like try and like wreck my life. Like, I know that that sounds crazy, but he would do things like, for example, um, I remember one day we got into a fight, and he like he didn't talk to me for after that, but I had a a job, uh, I, you know, makeup artist and I had a bride booked in Lakewood. And I'll never forget this. We should we shared one car, me and him at the time. Um, and my makeup kit was already packed in the car with all my brushes and all my equipment. And I let's say I had to leave at 10 o'clock. Okay. So I went out of my house at 10 o'clock and I saw that the car wasn't there.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

So I called him and called him. And again, he was ignoring me that that that day for whatever I did. I have no idea. I I'm sure I knew at the time, but couldn't tell you. Um, I called him, called him, he wouldn't answer. 10 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour. My heart is going crazy. And if anyone knows makeup artists or people who work in the event industry, like that is one of the cruelest things that you can do because literally the panic mode inside our bodies is like exponential in that moment. You know someone's waiting for you. So I ended up calling my mom. I couldn't breathe on the phone. I threw together whatever little makeup that I had at home, threw it in a bag, took my mom's car, crying my eyes out. I don't know how I got to Lakewood, and I came late and I and I was so disheveled, and I'm sure I looked like a mess. And I was like, this is this is the punishment. Wow. Wow. So things like that would occur, like little punishments like that, that literally like eat away at your soul over time. And the more you take of it, the less of a person you become. Because you can just take more and more and more and more and more, and then you literally become like you feel like nothing.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

So what's what's a very common pattern for abusers is that they'll punish you and then they'll give you a reward after, right? So if you're if you're being a good girl, you know, then they'll reward you. So did he do a lot of that to kind of like play with your with your mind a little bit, you know, where Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

So thankfully, no. I know I I've you know, I've obviously like done, you know, done a lot of research after that, um, in terms of like figuring out what these abusive patterns look like, and I've seen a lot of that. But um in my in my case, though, there was no elaborate jewelry or elaborate anything. Um it would it would maybe get a little bit like calm for like you know, a day or so, but it wasn't it it we never had like a honeymoon period after.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Thank God.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, thank god, because that can that's even worse sometimes because it can really mess with your head. For me, I had that hope that he would be, he would like s somehow snap back to the person that I fell in love with, but I never really saw so many glimpses of that of that guy after our wedding, which which was really good. Because I could I never got really like suckered back in. I was just like, how like how am I dealing with this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Do you wonder how a person can act so different when they're dating you and they're engaged to like switching almost like you said it was a day after you got married, it was, you know, he's all of a sudden a different person.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yeah. Um, so I I think for a lot of people it can be different things. I think a lot of people who are like, you know, who do abuse their, you know, spouse or girlfriend or whatever, I think a lot of them are really cruel and narcissistic. I think in my case, it was he was just very broken. And um that's what the therapist that we went to explained to me after that he had his own past and issues from you know the way that he grew up, and you know, don't don't want to get too into it, but he has hit he had his own like traumas and things like that. So um he kind of relived them when he uh you know like started to live with someone else, and kind of all of that did come out, and it wasn't so much from like a evil place. I mean, even though it was evil and cruel, it it was from like a very broken uh place and he hadn't worked on himself, he hadn't fixed these issues. Um, so he was kind of like acting it out, acting out his like childhood trauma traumas, but with him as like the the aggressor this this time. Yeah. Um, so that's what the therapist who kind of saved my life um explained to me after.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

So he agreed to go to therapy because a lot of times in an abusive marriage, like you know, you know, to that like the abuser is like I'm doing nothing wrong. Like this is all you. Um, so you need to go to therapy.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yeah. So this actually, um, we've gone to different therapists in the past. And this one who saved my life, she was amazing. She was our couple's therapist that he or one of his friends found and he said, I will only go to her. And then she ended up being like, she ended up telling me like dead in the eyes, like if you don't leave, you're gonna end up dead. Like straight up, she told me. She's like, You have to end this. Wow. Yeah. Was he physically um like abusive? There were different physical things that occurred, but I wouldn't, you know, he never punched me in the eyeballs, nothing like that. He would like like take my phone away and you know, take things away or push or push or block. Like he would definitely use his physical presence, but he wouldn't like, like I said, he wouldn't like punch me in the eyeballs or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Right. Did you stay longer than you expected to stay? And why if you did?

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, I I think I did stay because again, I knew from the day after our wedding, but it, you know, it was so embarrassing for me, especially. I had this whole wedding, and this was already my second time doing this. Like wasn't, you know, it was on, you know, I was not uh you I didn't have like a free pass. And you know, you get one free pass, and then after that, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:47

We're like, okay, they're like, what's wrong with you? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

And I was like, I'm never gonna find anyone. Like, why would anyone date someone who's divorced twice? Right. Um, but so yeah, I definitely stayed. I definitely wanted to see that person again that I fell in love with. Like I said, there was a lot of hope there on my end. And then I just realized that it just wasn't, it wasn't gonna happen. Um, and then the way that we finally did break away was not even my choice. Um, it was something kind of like we had a really big incident, and that was really a turning point for me because it was an incident that I couldn't go like I you can't come back from. Yeah, so we had a really um big fight. It was about um my grandma, she wasn't well, and I really wanted to visit her. And at that point, most of my friends and family and people who I loved, I wasn't really allowed to talk to them anymore. Anyone that would be on my side in any case, he would feel threatened by and wouldn't really allow me to talk to them. So I would change people's names on my phone and I would kind of have to like sneak around if I wanted to call my loved ones. Even your mom and your dad, like especially my mom, my dad, my aunt, my friends, anybody who was like on my side or who he saw as a threat, and he would tell me, Oh, it's because they're the ones who are preventing us from having a happy life together. Which I laugh about now because my husband now, my mom and him are actually best friends and like they gang up on me together, you know? And and anyone who knows me now, like can attest this for a fact. So I know that my mom isn't like an overly like, oh, you have to be nice to my daughter. If anything, she's like, bye, bye, why are you doing this? You know? She's very like quick to calm me down. And so it's everyone.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

You agreed to that? Like you were like, okay, yes, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Um, so again, I kind of snuck around. Um, but yeah, when I spoke to him, I would tell him like Okay, fine, we'll try it your way. Like, I won't talk to my parents. If you think that that's gonna make things better and make it magically wonderful with our relationship, like we'll try whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I'm just just sorry to cut you off for a second. I'm just curious to know for the person going through it that when he tells you these things, like, oh, it's your mother that's causing us, you know, to not have, do you get to a place where you believe it? Or were you strong enough to be like he's crazy and I'm just gonna like do this to make to make to make peace, but eventually I'm leaving.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

For me, it was the second one. Okay. I never thought that my parents were the issue. Okay. But again, like I, you know, did a little bit of research already at that point. This was already towards the end, and I kind of figured out what was going on. Um, it's very well like documented, this whole like abusive relationship thing or toxic relationship. Um, there are people who talk about it online, there are books that you can read. Um, again, we already were going to therapy at that point. So I already kind of knew that my mom was not the issue here, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Like she wasn't with us in our bedroom because yeah, because I have clients that, you know, the abusers are very manipulative and they're and the way that they word things somehow just like kind of gets into their psyche and they're like, yeah, maybe he is right, or maybe, you know. So it's great, it's great that like you were able to see clearly and not be like blinded by that.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

At that point, I saw everything like 2020. Okay. So yeah, um, I wanted to, but again, I I was I was still scared because I didn't know how to get out of it. I knew that I wanted I I knew that I wanted out. I was definitely still afraid about again, like being a di divorcee two times in a row. I was definitely scared about um, you know, he he had access to all my cash, um, anything, any money that I made, he would take. He didn't work at all. So I was paying all the bills and he had access to everything. Um, you know, there were different things that I definitely was scared about, but in my head, I I knew that this is not how I want to live my life. Yeah. I was still kind of just figuring out exactly what everything would look like. So this incident, um, back to the incident, um, I wanted to go and visit my loved one who wasn't doing well. She was in my monides, and um I wasn't sure if she had a stroke or what exactly was going on. And we were very close growing up. My grandma like basically raised me. Um, so he said, Okay, fine, you can go, but I have to drive you and you can only stay for 10 minutes. Like there were a lot of rules attached. So I was like, Okay, okay, fine. So I went to my kitchen and I brought an orange for her because we always used seed oranges together and I wanted to be like, oh, look, I brought you an orange. The drama that this orange caused in the car, he kept saying, Oh, you want to bring an orange because nobody feeds you guys, because you're because you're low class, you nobody has money. Why am I paying for this orange? And he would literally spun this orange to like the next level. And I was like, Are you kidding me? This is an orange. And I paid the grocery bills. Like, what are you talking about? But I was getting more and more upset and worked up. Anyway, I, you know, I visited her. I was in such a bad place. She saw that I was in a bad place, and then we went home. And then that we got into probably the worst fight physically, emotionally, mentally that we've ever gotten into. Um, he took my phone, he realized I was talking to my my mom and my aunt. He got extremely upset at me. Um, he threw, you know, he he threw things to a point where I was like actually scared for my life. Like I was actually like, oh my God, like this is bad. And I called my dad. I'm like, please, please, please, can you come? Like, I didn't want to leave the apartment because it it had been my apartment even before me and him met. So I knew that if I left, like there was a good chance I wouldn't be getting back in and all my things, all my money. I didn't even know where my money was, where he was putting it. Um, and I was just so scared I didn't want to leave, but I didn't want to be alone with him either. So I called my dad and I begged him to come. And my dad came. You know, my dad is an older guy, he has like 10 stents in his heart. Like he's medically, you know, also not in like the best place, but he came. He and we were sitting together on the couch. Our apartment had kind of like um a split level where it had like the bedrooms upstairs, and downstairs there was like the kitchen, living room, whatever. So my ex was upstairs and my dad and I were downstairs on the couch, and he was trying to make me feel better, and he held me and he said, I'm, you know, I'm like, please, like, can you just stay? Can you just stay? And he's like, Okay. Then my ex comes downstairs and he's like, get out of here, like to my dad, like, you're not invited. You're not, you know, I don't want you here, whatever. And then they got into like a physical fight, and my dad was like, I am done. He was like, I am done with this. Like, it's been, you know, a year of this, and like we we need to end this. So he went outside and he called the police. And at the same time, my ex ran to the police. Um, there was a police station like a block away from where we used to live. So he ran there, and two sets of police officers came to our house. And in New York, the law for these incidents is that when there's a dispute and the cops don't know who's right and who's wrong, they just arrest everybody and they let the judge have the final say. So in our in our case, we were all arrested. Me, my dad, and my ex were all arrested. Wow. And we spent the night in a cell. And actually, my dad, basically, the cell that we um that we went to had a women's cell and a men's cell. But because my ex was screaming at my dad the entire time and bullying him, even in the cell, they had to split actually them apart. And I was actually chained to a desk in the office. So I wasn't even really in the cell. Okay. Um, but honestly, what happened if you had to go to the bathroom? Yeah, no, they like they were very cool. The cops weren't like, you know, they were like, whatever you want. Like they even let me, I was gonna give a makeup class the next day. And I was like, can I please just like tell everybody that like I'm in jail? I mean, I didn't tell that, but I was like, I can't make like fucking they let me turn on my phone. Like they were actually like really cool. I've I think they felt really bad for me. I at the time I weighed like 92 pounds. I was I'm less than five feet tall. They're like, why is this chick in jail? Like she didn't do anything. Like she's I had marks on me, you know. Like I just was like, they were like, they kind of felt bad that I was there. I was traumatized, my face was sunken in, you know. They were very, they were like, okay, like you feel like you're good. Yeah, you're like, you're not. Anyway. So, but being in that cell, I felt horrible on the one hand because I was like, how did my life end up here? Like, I I try to be good, like I try to do the things right. I work hard. I I'm a good per person in so many ways. Like, how did my life end up that I'm in a freaking jail cell?

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

But at the same time, I felt like I've finally like I found like a sense of freedom too. Cause I was like, we cannot come back from this. I was like, there is no coming back from this. Like, this is where the buck stops. Like, we're not, you know, I'm not being with this person again. I can't even look at him the same way anymore. And I also just felt so bad for my dad.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

I'm like, you didn't deserve this. Like, you just why are you here?

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Like, I got dragged in to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

And I felt so bad that I'm like really putting it on other people. Like it's one thing for me to carry the weight on myself. And I imagine that people with kids feel this way. I didn't have kids with my ex. We, you know, think, God, but um, I, you know, I I imagine it feeling like, how am I bringing someone else into this mess? Like it's one thing to accept it on yourself, but it's another thing to get someone else involved to the point where their life is ruined. I mean, thank God my dad, you know, is fine now.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

But but what would you tell people who I guess, like if you didn't have this dramatic incident, do you think that you would have gone out or what do you think like would have happened?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

I think it would have probably um continued until like a breaking point. Because until that breaking point, your brain tries to tell you that everything is okay and everything will be fine.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Our brain tries to keep us safe. Yes. Right. So like by telling ourselves and lie to us, right? But it tries to tell us that like wherever we are, whatever we're doing, we are safe in this moment. Right. So that will that's so if nothing big is happening, then you're like, okay, things are okay, right? Things are like status quo. Like you see clients coming in for therapy only a lot of times when there's like a big crisis. Very few couples come in for therapy to be like, we just want to work on our communication. It doesn't usually happen that way, you know? Yeah. So I think it's like the same, the same type, the same type of thing. So unless there was a big incident, you probably would have been married for a longer time.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, and I would always downplay all the incidents in my head and be like, oh, like, was it really that bad? Or maybe he meant it this way, or you know, like you really do fall into this sense of um your brain trying to protect you and you kind of just been able to like whitewash everything and so that you can move on with your life and be normal. If you're thinking about the stress 24 hours a day, like you're never gonna be able to focus on anything else. And I remember when I used to come home from makeup jobs, I would like sit in the car and be like, okay, like I'm gonna go in, like I'm gonna try and behave, I'm gonna try and be a good girl. I remember even like when I walked to the bathroom, I was like, let me walk in a perfectly straight and amazing and whatever way so that he has no excuse to bully me or say that I'm doing anything wrong or to pick a fight. My whole life became how do I avoid, you know, being called names or being punished or being ignored or any of that. Wow. And I really lost sight of who I was as a person.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

So after that jail incident, like did you go home? What what happened at that point?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, so I wasn't able to go home and neither was he, because we both had orders of protection against each other. So um, long story short, I ended up living by my aunt for a while and I got a lot of unbrainwashing.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Um and yeah, I was able to really walk away from the pain, from the hope, because again, I still carried this hope that somehow, somewhere in there was the guy that I loved. So I was able to finally walk away from that. I was able to get back to myself. I remember I watched a Netflix show that had nothing to do with our marriage or anything, but it was so therapeutic because I was able to focus on something else for once without that stress in the back of my head, which is something that I hadn't done that entire year. Everywhere that I was, I was also mentally in prison.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

But it really felt so different.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Um I love that line. I think that that's so like it's so point, like it points to what people in abusive relationships feel that no matter where they are, they they could be in the most exotic island or whatever, you know, and they're but they're mentally in prison. Like they are just constantly trapped in that place.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it what it was. Um and obviously I knew that the whole get would be an issue, which of course it was. Nothing was easy, everything was a fight, everything was hard. But I finally got out, and I think after that I had such an insane like period, I guess you want to call it, of like post-traumatic growth um growth, which I know a lot of people experience things and they have like post-traumatic stress, but there is post-traumatic post-traumatic growth as well. And you hear about that from people who let's say were very ill and they got like a new lease on life, yeah, or people who have been through really bad stress, and sometimes you can really feel like you have a second chance at life. And I just started appreciating things. I remember I was chilling with my brother, and I hadn't seen him at that point for a year, and we were on the couch and we were laughing at this stupid show, and and I just felt like my heart has never been this full. Like my heart was literally exploding. Okay, I don't know. But I was just so glad to just be able to do the small things again that I hadn't been able to do, and I just got back in touch with with myself, and I got back in touch with why I love doing makeup, and everything was out of joy.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

And and everything just felt like uh, you know, the most amazing experience ever.

unknown 35:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Um it also seems that you got to a place where you forgiven your ex. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Yeah. I mean, I'll never forgive him for let's say what he did to other people in my life, like my mom, my dad, and I don't want to go into that. But the issues that we had, I can honestly say now that I know that I played into them as well. Like, for example, when he would ignore me, but I had that urge to just need to be seen and heard, and I would fight with him and I would want to be seen and heard, and I would I would cry and I would plead and beg and and all that. And you know, I'm sure that that didn't help things. I'm sure that if I would have been smarter and you know, just okay, I'm gonna go get my nails done, and like not cared as much and not felt as eaten alive on the inside, I could have dealt with things better as well. But you know, that those were the skills that I had at the time. Yeah. And that's how I felt at the time. And I was very emotion-driven. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Um but I think that's also who you are at your core. You are an emotional person. So there's no fault in like how you reacted and wanting to be seen. But when I talk about like you forgiving him, you know, you you like spoke about the fact that he comes from a like a broken family and he was broken. And so you you got to notice reasons of why he did the things that he did, not that that's an excuse, but just like at least like giving you some insight into why he is the person that he is.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, like everyone has flaws and um everyone has, you know, a little bit of a demon inside of them. No matter how good the person is, everyone has some people it's money, some people it's you know, addiction, some people it's jealousy. Everyone has something that they need to be working on. And if you're not working on it every day, all day, um you can lead to a slippery slope. You can really like slip into a dark place. That's why it's so important to uh, you know, try to wake up in the morning and do better every single day.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

So for him, he comes from a very broken place where this all just triggered him to a very big extent. And I'm sure I triggered him to a very big extent. And um, this was how his brain helped him to handle it. Because in his head, he wasn't safe. Yeah. In his head, having me around and having someone else around, you know, was was not a safe place, and so his he kind of had to fight it.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

So going back for a second, of you know, the fact that you had this big incident that happened, and that's kind of that led that what led you to be able to leave, what would you tell people who are in this type of relationship that don't have a big like incident? How would you empower them and kind of um help them be able to lead something like this?

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah, whenever you are in a place where you lose sight of who you are and your own self-esteem, self-worth, self-identity starts to slip away, even if it's slow, because a lot of times it's slow. I'm sure you know that expression about the frog and the water. Yeah. Um so whenever you're in a place where you start to like lose sight of yourself, that is an incident. You shouldn't ever be in a place where you can't, you know, form your own identity and you can't be true to your to yourself and you're living on someone else's role, someone else's terms, or trying to walk on eggshells for someone else. Um I am not one of these types of people to say, like, everyone should get a divorce. If you're not happy, get a divorce. If you're want to live in China, get a divorce, you know? And I don't think that the majority of people are like that either. I think that that's something that people talk about. Oh, why are all these young kids getting divorced? I think that a lot of times people do get a divorce for reasons that are valid. And I think that abuse is something that, like, if you sense it, I don't care if you're married for a week, a year, 10 years, get the hell out. Like any kind of of abuse, get the hell out. It does not get better. Maybe he can be better with someone else. I don't know. That's not my you know, place to judge. But I know our relationship at the time, the only way through was out. Was out was out. And there's no point in saving it. I think for me, uh it's good personally that I got to that place of like the breaking point where I knew I couldn't go back. Because I think that mentally I was so broken at the time that I would have second guessed myself a million times if I had just made that choice on my own. Right. But the fact that it wasn't a choice at that point and it's something that was outside of my, you know, but I kind of knew that it was the right thing, yeah, was such a blessing in disguise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

There are people that say, like, I wish my husband would just like hit me, or you know, I would go to jail, or he would go to jail, you know. So this way I I have I have an excuse. Because it's really hard to prove emotional abuse and verbal abuse, but it's really easy to prove physical abuse. So that's that's like the real challenge for people.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

But you but you do know it from the inside. Yeah. You you know what it feels like. And if you know, I'm speaking to people here. If anyone feels that way, like if you know, you know, and if you don't know, you don't know. Um, but that is reason enough to leave. You know, it it's it's not worth staying. Yeah, it's not if you have kids, it's not worth them staying in that kind of environment. I'm I'm lucky that I didn't, but you know, it's really hard to live a normal life. I mean, I I think it's impossible to live a normal life in those circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

So can you tell us um how you went from that relationship to trusting, you know, you you met Ben on, I think like an app or something and in a park, or you went on some like I I I know the story like a little bit. Um like what made how did you not feel like this guy can act one way and I could get married to him and tomorrow he can act a completely different way?

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah. Um, so when I met Ben, I actually was, you know, not really looking for husband number three that wasn't on my agenda. But he actually was looking for wife number three. He was married twice as well. Right. It's just so interesting. And he has his own story of how he'll bring Ben on the podcast. Exactly. Part part two. But yeah, when I um met him, I was still in a very like, you know, post this type of, you know, post-traumatic stress slash growth kind of phase. How long after did you meet him? Um like two years. Okay. But I had but I had been doing the work. Yeah. I had been like going to therapy, I went to group therapy, I um was working on myself, uh, getting back into things that I love to do, like really working on myself as a person. And I came to a place where I can truly say that I loved myself and I was so proud of myself. And I like, you know, I got kind of like I set like a second lease on life. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, you know, you don't just let anyone in after that happens. I didn't think I was ever gonna like get married again. I remember even with the whole get thing, I was like to my mom, mom, like, why do you care so much about this get? I'd rather just keep the money and keep the jewelry and keep whatever. Like, I'm not doing this again. What do I need to get for? And she's like, No, you're crazy. You need to get, blah, blah, blah. I was like, okay, okay. Okay, okay. Fine. Thank God I got my get, you know? Right. Thank God I fought for my get because I really did meet someone amazing. But I didn't think that that was ever in the cards for me. When I met Ben, I kept saying to my friends, my parents, I kept saying the other shoe is gonna drop. He seems nice. He seems like a great guy. He's everything that I would have wanted. We work so well together together. We've both been through things, but the other shoe is gonna drop. There's no way that this is the person that he says that he is. Like I just didn't believe it because everyone that I had been with, you know, up until that point had two completely different sides to them. And I'm very like what you see is what you get. Yeah. But I I really thought that the other shoe was gonna drop to the point where we were dating for a few months. And I kept telling him, I'm like, you know, you're nice now. Like, you know, we would joke about it. So he came to me on our maybe like six-month anniversary or whatever it was with an affidavit signed this big. And he, and you know, we had obviously spoken about our relationships and everything that's been, you know, all the bad things that have been in the past with our exes. And he remembered everything and he literally put it into a book. And he would be like, I swear I will never punch your grandma in the face. Like literally things that like he remembered that my exes like have done. And he got it signed by an unnotarized notary, whatever. Um, and he said, if I ever do any of these things, like I will give you X amount of money, cat, da-da-da-da. And I was so touched, not because oh, I needed that money or you know, I wanted this affidavit, but because something just clicked in me that I was like, wow, like he gets it. Like he understands that I'm like a little bit like traumatized, and he understands why. And he's validating that. And he's validating why this is so hard for me to trust again. And slowly by slowly, little by little, we just started trusting each other more and more, leaning on each other. Um, actually, one of our first dates, I didn't even mention this. We went to the therapist who saved my life.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

That was your first date?

SPEAKER_01 46:21

No, probably our like 50. No, but like very early on. Let's let's go on a date. I'm like, I want to get to know you, but also my therapist has to get to know you. So we're going straight to her office. We made a date out of it. We went out to eat after, it was fun. She liked him right away. She said, This is a great guy. She was like, This, this is a great guy. And everybody who met him loved him. My parents loved him. And like I said, till this day, like I I promise you, my mom and him have a better relationship than you know anyone else.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

So were you scared to to get to get married? Like when it actually came to it and you got engaged, and like was that was there a hesitation there?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Um, so I definitely wanted like a prenup and I wanted it to say that if we have kids, they're gonna be mine and all these things, and I had all these ideas. But really, like little by little, I just started to trust him, and and I just knew that like he would never hurt me, even if we have fights, and even if we, God forbid, end up separating or whatever it is, he would never try to hurt me. Right. Like he's just not that kind of person. He would be a mensch, and we would, you know, fight it out, whatever it is, but he would never do malicious acts against me to try and ruin my life or to try and harm me in in any way. And not only that, like, you know, we're together, thank God, for five years. Like every single day he does things to like emotional. He does things to like lift me up and help me and to little things like how can I help her make sure that her day runs smooth? How can I fill up gas in the car so that she's not stressed out on her job? Yeah, how can I help her? You know, I'm pumping milk now for my daughter. So he prepares my pumps for me in the morning, puts them already in the bag to make sure that when I get to work and I have to pump, like he's contributing, he's doing his part to feed our daughter.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

What a polar opposite. It's just like night and day.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Yeah. And I appreciate him so much more. And even though we argue and we disagree, I'll I'll appreciate the little things so much more because of where I've been in my life and the vast difference.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

So um, I just wanna like you to be able to give hope to people that are currently in that relationship that like life gets better.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Life will get so much better. And even the simple things, like sitting on the couch with your brother, eating snacks, and watching a stupid film, is gonna feel like the best, most amazing thing you've ever done in your life. There is no point of living your life staying in in an abusive relationship. So, um, yeah, get the hell out. Like, that's the advice I can give you.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

This was amazing, and you've been so vulnerable and so open and so honest. And like, I think that anybody who is going through something like this is going to benefit tremendously. And even if you're not, just hearing your story is like really inspiring. So, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Do you want to tell our listeners where they can find you, even though you have a lot of followers? So you don't need my help.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Yeah. And shop some makeup while you're at it.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

Awesome, awesome makeup line. I have every single product. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Go shopping.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

And um, okay, great. Um, so if you would like to find me, I am on talk to talk to Tamara on Instagram. You can go to my website at Tamaragastetner.com. And if you want one on one coaching or therapy, you can DM me or hit me up on my website. Thank you.