The Say Less Podcast

016 - [SERIES] The First Year Files: Marketing Basics... It Doesn't Have to Be Complicated!

• Grace Cacho & Alex Taylor • Episode 16

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Hi friends, Alex and Grace here! In this episode, we're diving into practical, no-fluff strategies to kickstart your marketing in your first year of business. Whether you're just getting started or feeling overwhelmed, we've got real-world tips to help you build visibility, attract local clients, and grow confidently without overthinking every post.

In this episode:

  • Why focusing on Google and local SEO is your first step to discovery
  • How to leverage reviews to boost search rankings and trust
  • Why consistent engagement beats viral content every time
  • Practical social media tips for organic growth on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok
  • The importance of showing the human side of your creative business
  • Tools like Canva for easy content creation and scheduling
  • The strategic role of vendor collaborations and local community groups
  • Why paid ads aren’t your first priority but can be a future step
  • How to create content that resonates by sharing behind-the-scenes and client experiences

Resources & Links:

Extra tips from us:

  • Show up as yourself. Authenticity drives trust and conversions.
  • Focus on building relationships with vendors and community groups for ongoing referrals.
  • Don’t get stuck on feed perfection—share behind-the-scenes, process, and personal stories.
  • Consistency and engagement are the secret sauce; virality is a bonus, not the goal.
  • Use free tools and resources to stay consistent without overwhelm.

Remember, this game is a marathon, not a sprint. Prioritize foundational strategies like Google & reviews, be consistent in showing up, and let the right clients find you naturally. We can’t wait to hear about your first wins!Y'all got this — keep showing up with heart, and the clients will come. Talk soon!

Send us burning questions, topic ideas, and things you’re loving about the podcast!

Connect with Alex & Grace:

Education:

Must-Have Systems

Arisa Haus Creative Marketing Agency

Grace & Andrew Cacho provide clarity to businesses and personal brands by means of Brand Message Clarity, Audits, Brand Strategy, Content Creation, Photo & Video, Web Design, and Social Media Management.

SPEAKER_02

This is your first year marketing checklist if you're a note taker. If you're a note taker, I'm a note taker. Number one, create your Google business listing. Number two, set up your business Instagram and start posting consistently, scheduling whatever you need to do. Okay. Number three, join your local Facebook groups. Find the vendor groups, find the bride groups, find the mom groups if you're a mom, find where you need to be and show up there. Number four, add it to your workflow to ask happy clients for reviews. Not only when you deliver the gallery, but a follow-up because they're gonna be too excited about your deliverables to immediately leave a review. Yeah. Number five, use Canva, not Chat GPT for simple marketing materials. Those all support your business. And it's really important to have those materials to use Canva and use some of the tools we mentioned to help support you in that. And number six, most important, if you hear nothing else other than Google, engage with your audience and community. Continue to engage and continue to show up. The visibility is going to matter more than the perfection. Stay consistent and stay visible and bring yourself into it.

SPEAKER_01

I wanted to start a podcast for creative entrepreneurs. So I asked Alex to join me and I said, stay less. I'm in. Welcome to the Stay Less podcast, where we actually say a lot more about motherhood, creativity, photography, business ownership, and everything in between.

SPEAKER_02

We are your hosts, Alex and Grace. And this is a space for creative women building something meaningful. Whether you're raising babies, raising your rates, or just trying to figure out your next move.

SPEAKER_01

We talk about all the real stuff. What's working, what's not, what we're unlearning, what nobody tells you about building a business that has to fit inside a real life.

SPEAKER_02

The pivot, the pressure, the sustainability, and all of the seasons. If you've ever felt like you're creating in the margins of your time, your energy, or your confidence, you're not alone here. So stay less. Let's get into it. Me too. Okay, I'm really excited about this. I have been dying to do this. I wrote this, I actually wrote this script the same time I wrote the one that me and my mom are gonna record. And I it was almost like two months ago. When we first started talking about the first year files and doing this as a series, I was like, I can't wait for marketing. Yeah. And I think that's mainly because, well, as Grace knows, I don't know if everyone else knows, I do have a marketing degree. And then I worked after I got my degree. I couldn't find a job for a while because hello, I was just like just graduated. I was actually yeah, I was actually working at anthropology. I was having the best time. Oh my gosh. Wait, why did you quit that job? Um, for a million reasons. Did you get a discount on clothes? 75%. I swear to God. Because they want you to work there. They're like, they want you to wear the clothes while you're working. Hot dang. That was why I worked there for so long. And then when I finally got my aid first agency, marketing agency job, I continued to work in anthropology just for the discount. So I would work like an eight to five job, and then I would work six to midnight and close the store in anthropology at North Park Mall. Wow. True story. I know. Wow. It's a fun little tidbit because like I loved working there so much. But, anyways, I have five plus years experience working for a marketing agency. I worked at two different, um, different agencies, and now I'm a few years out of it. So I actually quit prior to having Georgia, who is now almost four years old. So it's crazy. I'm like four years out of agency work, but there's so much marketing that goes into being a creative entrepreneur. Yeah. But I'm like, I can't even say I'm out of it because I'm it is the job. It's the job. It's literally all about it. Which is why today we're gonna talk about marketing in your first year of business. So we're not gonna talk about corporate marketing or agency marketing or marketing degrees, yeah. Which Grace is also getting her marketing degree currently. We're not talking about that specifically, but we're gonna talk about the stuff that actually helps your clients find you when you're in the beginning for your business as a creative entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Here's what I think is like a common misconception, and let me know. People think that marketing is like going viral.

SPEAKER_01

No, I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I would you need hundreds of thousands of followers and like to go viral for people to find you.

SPEAKER_01

Listen, listen. I was in I was in the TikTok space. Okay, I was in the TikTok space. I I just randomly started doing TikTok when I was pregnant with Asa, who's now almost nine months old. And it was so fun. But the whole thing with TikTok is like they preach you just have to post like six times a day and hope that something goes viral. Like that is the marketing strategy there half the time. There's a lot more to it than that. But when you're first starting out, that's all you hear is like you just have to post multiple times, spam people, yes, and interact, and then just hope that something goes viral. But then even when something goes viral, what then? What then? It might be something that has nothing to do with your business or anything, like it's just funny, or like, how does that benefit how does that benefit my business? And so literally, no, going viral does not know. I have, yeah, yes, I have things and it's probably only gonna happen once if it ever happens to you.

SPEAKER_02

So well, the viral thing like drives me crazy and like especially because wild. Like I think viral is good if you're like a giant business, but as far as being a creative entrepreneur, the benefit of it, kind of what's hard, but also the benefit is that most of our clients are local. I think that's like kind of the thing, right? So yeah, I talked about this, I know before, but I I've had a couple viral posts here and there. Like I've had a couple like go off, I had a TikTok go viral and I want free vacation. So that was real cool. That was real cool. It benefited my life in the fact that I want a vacation. And then I've had a couple, my most recent posts that went viral was my couple that went to Bucky's. I know we've talked about this. Oh my gosh, yes. In like literally over a million views. Yeah, like it really was iconic of them. I was lucky to capture it. I posted it, it went viral, which was really cool. But like most of the people that have seen it aren't local. So it doesn't help me any. So I don't I'm like, did you get any bookings off of that? No. No, and like honestly, hardly like any followers off of it. And that's totally fine. That is not, it's just not my goal. Like, I'm not trying to go viral, but I think that people think that a lot. Yeah. But really, what's most important, and I do, I'll be devil's advocate for you here. I think that being consistent and engaging is very important. But being findable and visible is gonna be your most important for your marketing strategy, in my opinion. Yeah, in my opinion. Because they can't hire you if they can't find you. So if you're easily findable, you're gonna get then, you know, you're gonna be hired. And then obviously being visible and present, recent, yeah, is important. Like they're consistently posting, recently posting, they're active in what they're doing. And I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_01

I have a student that I I didn't teach her this. She was just was really good at posting on TikTok, like about her photography stuff. Her name's Caitlin. I need to find her, not our not other Caitlin that we already talked to, different Caitlin. Man, there aren't a million Caitlin photographers. Literally. But this student, she's like becoming a friend, but something that she was already doing was like showing her working, like her TikToks and even like reels that she posts on Instagram, you know, pack my camera bag with me. And here's some behind the scenes of like my maternity shoot that I did today or whatever. And she's like talking and she's showing up and she's doing it consistently. Right. Um, and so people not just seeing like her work or her, I don't even like before there was even a logo or a brand or anything like that. It was just her showing up. Like, here I am. I'm doing the photography side of it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Humanity side of she's a person and this is how she is as a person, and not just here's her best image that she took from a wedding. Like, I think that's such good marketing. I think that all started, and I know you have mentioned TikTok, but I think that all started like with the influencer TikTok bit of like people when I'm scrolling TikTok and I see like here's a day in my life, I'm like, I'm stopping. Yeah. I'm like, what are they doing all day, every day? Like, what's up? I don't know why. I it's an epidemic, probably in a bad way. But I think for marketing wise, it does work because for a creative entrepreneur, the people side matters so much because it's like when people hire me, they're getting me. Yeah. Like I'm getting hired, you're getting me. It's gonna be me on your wedding day, it's gonna be me and the emails. Yeah, of course, you know, my workflows are a little more automated. Yeah. Where like you'll get emails.

SPEAKER_01

But there's still like personal touches.

SPEAKER_02

But like I wrote them. It's like it's literally me beginning to end. I I edit every single photo myself. I'm like, it's me. So I feel like showing the humanity side, the the side of yourself, yeah, is really important. Yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_01

I think that before anything else that we are about to get into, like what you should do first, basically, if you don't have that foundational, if you're not super comfy with showing up as you, kind it might be a little bit harder for you to do those things. And even if you set up the Google and the Instagram and all those things, but where do people land? Like how what what's what's deeper than that? And like what's gonna sell them? So I think foundationally, like show up as you.

SPEAKER_02

I I feel like too, if if that resonates with you, our listeners, of showing up as yourself on social media. I've had this conversation with people starting out on their business before of just I'm not confident putting my face in front of a video. Um, and I know it may be hard to believe, but I don't love videoing myself. I I like to chat, I love to yap, but I'm like, I'm really not presentable most days. And I think that's the truth. That's the truth. I was like, you know, I stay home with my kids most of the time. So I'm usually got a stain on my shirt and don't have on makeup and blah, blah, blah. Then I'm not always like fully comfortable showing up as myself, then recording video and behind the scenes and packing your camera bag with maybe just a voiceover. And not putting your face in front of the screen, but your voice and still you doing something, interacting with whatever, packing your bag for whatever, working on your computer with whatever, but putting your voice behind it so that they can sit here. That's a good thing. So maybe if that resonates with you, that can be like a good place to start before like getting your face.

SPEAKER_01

We're talking to ourselves. Yeah. I'm literally in the middle of like reconfiguring how I do marketing for my own business. Like, yeah, we're in the thick of it right now, which is why we're talking about it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So here we are, back to the statistics and sparkle. If you listen to the last episode, I love to be sparkly, but sometimes the t statistics matter.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so I want to dive into kind of like the nitty-gritty of some of the marketing. And I'm gonna let Grace kind of like just punch in a few things as well, because I want to go through some of the things that I really think are important. Sure. But she's also like currently into the marketing world, and so she may have something more interesting to say. But it's easy for us to get on here and say, this is what you need to do and this is what you should be doing. But we want to give you practical advice as well. That is the point of this series of not just you need to show up, you need to be visible, but this is where and what and how often. So here's like the meat of it. Here's the meat and potatoes. Okay. Okay. So here's some, in my, from my opinion, not an expert, just my opinion, platforms to set up immediately. As soon as you establish your business, Google business listing is gonna be step number one. Essential. Essential. Yeah. You probably already got your Gmail. You've already decided there's Jack for you. You've already decided your business name and all your stuff. Set up your Google business listing. Yep. It's free. It'll take 20 minutes or less. But this is where it helps when you, when someone searches photographer near me, photographer in Fort Work, photographer in DFW area, florist near me, logo designer, local, those searches, that's that's how you show up. Yeah. Getting yourself established on Google business listing by adding your photos, your website, your contact info and reviews, which I'm gonna circle back to. But getting all those things set up when people are searching in Google for those things, this is how you show up. Okay. No, this sounds super simple. And if you've heard this before, you're probably rolling your eyes at me. But you'd be surprised by how many people don't know this exact factor. Okay. Yeah. Of it can be this easy, it's free, and it's very, very, very important. Adding on to that, in order to show up higher, in order to have like more credibility. So, photographer near me, there's probably hundreds of photographers in Fort Worth in order to show up higher. Getting those reviews is important. And I know we talked about this adding it to your client workflow of once you're done with the client, getting reviews. I know Grace has shared exact email templates for what she sends. And I know she read them in the episode for CRMs. Um having the review link and having that easy for your clients is really important. And Google recognizes that as she's she or he is active, and I'm gonna show them higher in the search engine.

SPEAKER_01

I'll also say to piggyback off of this, strengthen your argument here. Yeah, that Google is arguably one of the most important things you can do. Period. Who isn't using Chat GPT? And a bride may go to ChatGPT nowadays before they go to Google, but where is ChatGPT pulling from? They're pulling from Google, right? They're pulling from reviews, they're pulling from all of those things that are set up other places. So you can't run like you're not gonna run a Chat GPT ad or anything, which that's a whole other thing. But you can help yourself with SEO and Google and getting those reviews up and cranking. So yeah, super important.

SPEAKER_02

Reviews matter for like a lot of things, though. Yeah. Obviously, it's gonna help you rank higher in social media, which is that SEO search engine optimization that we have discussed, but it also builds trust quickly. I don't know about you, and maybe I'm a grandma in saying that I still read reviews.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

If I'm I use newly to rent clothes and I read all the reviews, I if I'm hiring anyone for anything, I read reviews. If I'm looking for a creative entrepreneur to print a shirt or whatever, I'm going to find them and I'm going to read the reviews. It builds that trust quickly. Yeah. It's really important. So be sure to add that in your workflow. But this is it's going to support your workflow. But even more, even more importantly, is that it's going to support your marketing.

SPEAKER_01

Also, if you're a photographer specifically, if you want reviews, go give reviews. Give them getting reviews is like pulling teeth, I feel like. But if you're showing love to your community and this business and that's that business, and then maybe they book you for photos, like you, you've you've done the work. Don't give reviews just to get reviews. But I'm just saying, like totally share the share the wealth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

No, share the wealth, share the love. Absolutely should. And I think, and we'll, I know we talked about this in the CRM workflow one, but positioning the review link in certain places is really important because when you're sending your gallery and you put it there, your client is gonna be like, oh my God, I'm so excited to see my photos that like they might not remember to go back, but maybe sending a follow-up email two weeks later of I hope you've loved every single image and reliving your day. And now that we're on this end of it, if you could leave me a review, it's so important for small business. So just positioning them well. It's it's social proof, it's gonna help your search search visibility, it's gonna build the trust. It's all really important. So if you hear nothing else, Google and reviews. That's really important for your marketing. Yep. Google and reviews and Google reviews. Done in an episode. Literally. Okay. Another place that I think is really important is Instagram. And I think that this is kind of a hot take because I know some people want to argue that it's like the best platform for creative businesses. Their algorithm scrolls me up sometimes. I'm telling you, like it can be hard. It can be hard. And when I'm talking about my viral posts, I will say that it's Instagram that I've gone viral on. I did have the one viral TikTok, which I said, but Instagram is where I have gone viral. But engagement and conversation and the connection on Instagram is really important. And I use Instagram primarily as my like main social media. Um I know you do too, but it's easy to go, not easy to go viral, but it can be easy to be found on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But as a creative business owner, it's more important that local people are finding you. And I think it's hard for people to find you locally on Instagram. Do you agree or disagree?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, yeah, even as far as so eye words, I have too many thoughts happening. Yeah. So like when I post on stories, I love posting on stories. A lot of them, a lot of the viewers are previous clients or vendors, like other vendors. Not a lot of new people. Gosh, it's just yeah, I I agree. It's it's hard to define local local work. Um, I mean, most all of the weddings I booked this year were strictly referrals, not because somebody found me on Instagram, which is sometimes the case. Mostly if something is shared, like a shoot is shared that these people have friends of friends and friends, that's still referral-based, even though it was through social media, not like word of mouth. Um yeah, I find it incredibly difficult. It is.

SPEAKER_02

But the the benefit, like the pro for using Instagram, is creative entrepreneurs are usually like visual heavy. Like obviously, I want people to see my photos and you're hiring me, but I like want to be able to share my work. And I do find a lot of business on Instagram as far as like being able to share my work and being benefited by how cute Instagram can be and sharing my work there. But I wouldn't say it's like the easiest for people to find me there. But I do think that people check it is my point. So, you know, they've searched, they found your Google, they've read your reviews. Let me check out their social media. Yeah. And I think that's really important. So I think it can be hard. Some sort of presence there. Yes, online, online, totally. So that's hard. And I think that what people get hung up on is like the follower number. And I know I talked about this, but yeah, having so many followers, but like the engagement and being consistent. And I'm not saying constant, like how Grace was talking about TikTok, but yeah, you can have 800 followers that love your work and book you there, but you could have 15,000 followers and none of them are local and none of them are wanting to hire you. So you have to just think which one you would rather have, to be honest. It's uh it's hard.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's kind of like, I don't know, you just like with anything else, be be obviously we want to grow, but be content about what's in front of you. Take care of what's in front of you. And that includes social media. Like speak to the audience that is following you. Um, and I think the more you do that, you'll the less you'll feel like you're just screaming into the abyss all the time. And like, like Alex said, waiting to go viral because that's not the end goal. The end goal is to speak to your one or two clients that are gonna come across that specific post and convert from that post or maybe follow you from that post and then just continuing to like nurture and build trust and things like that.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Okay, I'm going into the next thing. Now the next well, I keep saying this, but I'm like, it's such a hot take. But I I just want to reiterate that we're speaking from our experience. I'm speaking directly from, and this is why I was wanting you to like interject whenever you want. I'm speaking directly from where I have been booked. So I'm not like speaking from what I think works, I'm speaking from what does work for me. So Google's my biggest thing. Word of mouth is my biggest thing. Those are probably like split between the two. But using Instagram and Facebook as the social proof and backup of kind of like your portfolio. Yeah. Of they haven't made it to your website yet and they're not interested in making it to your website yet, but see using Instagram and Facebook as like the backup to what you say you're offering and let me see it visually. So for Facebook, I think it matters more than people think.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's still part of Meta, and Meta is a big deal right now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It is. What I think about when I think about Facebook, I'm thinking about my grandma using her iPad to scroll on it because that's what she does all day. And so sometimes, I mean, she works. I didn't mean it like all day, but like all day, she'd be scrolling Facebook and sharing recipes and videos and things that are random and like AI's slop that she doesn't know is AI. So I'm like Facebook, in my opinion, has gotten less relevant, but the local groups and the community groups, and I know we've talked about this as far as our community over competition, different topics that we've had, but the wedding groups and the mom groups and the vendors groups and the bride groups and the local community groups. So many. It's not yeah, people are asking recommendations in those groups constantly, and that's free marketing for you. Yeah. And a lot of them that I'm in, like there's like DFW-based.

SPEAKER_00

Hi.

SPEAKER_02

There's DFW based groups that are heavily saturated. For sure. So people can post this is my wedding date, this is my venue, this is my budget, and this is what I'm looking for. And there can be thousands of comments on those, and that drives me crazy. And it's discouraging because I'm like, I don't even want to comment because you're not going to reach out to me. Yeah. And so I'm just not going to. Yeah. And but they do matter more than people think. Like if you position yourself right and get into these groups, there's conversations to be had. There's like bookings to be had. I know we've talked about this, but I've also had people recommend me in groups. And you know, like North Richland Hills moms, Wichita Falls area moms, when I was still in Wichita Falls. Yeah. And maybe other moms recommending me in those groups. And I have received bookings that way. Yeah. So it's free marketing and it's the word of mouth posted to Facebook and that all matters too. So joining those groups and having the visibility, but getting people that also have like backed you up and used you before reiterating your value in those groups, it's still relevant. So yes, Facebook is turning into more of like an AI, more of like an AI slop, in my opinion. But like it is part of meta and it is important.

SPEAKER_01

I think people are reaching more for groups because there are so many ads and the algorithm on Facebook is even messier than Instagram, I think. And so people are mostly like I'm mostly on Facebook for the groups at for marketplace. Truly, that's all. Or I would have deleted it yesterday. Yeah, but like uh so I'm technically DFW, but I don't live in Dallas. Yeah. Secrets out. I live about an hour north of Dallas. But a lot of my clients knew that. I think everyone knew that. Yeah. A lot of my clients are um in DFW. So that's where I market myself. But there's still a lot of connections that I want to make, like in my hometown. And so I'm even going outside of not in a Dallas group, but more specifically, like I live in the specifically Texoma region. I'm like North Texas, Southern Oklahoma. And so I'm looking at groups in there as well. And like not just photography groups. I'm also getting into other, like we've talked about the creative table. I have a creative table Facebook group just for overall creative entrepreneurs, and it truly is just a connection point there. Some encouragement thrown out there, but just for recommendations and connection. And so getting into groups like that, it doesn't have to be that one, but um some that don't have 10,000 people in them and you can only post on Tuesdays. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02

No, there's actually there's a vendor group. It is and I I'm gonna misquote it, but it's something along the lines of DFW budget brides wedding group or something like that. Yeah. And it like I it went viral because someone was running it and it was like a group of vendors and they were like only posting themselves. So like if I joined it and tried to post myself, like it was getting declined, but it had like thousands of brides in the group, but it was like a photographer, planner, videographer, like group of vendors. Wow that um, then they were only promoting themselves. That's criminal.

SPEAKER_01

Criminal behavior that is not community over competition, criminal behavior.

SPEAKER_02

With these things, Google, Instagram, and Facebook being, of course, meta like rules the world, those being like the primary places to market yourself. There's also like the whole conversation about ads.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Ads being ran on Google, ads being ran on Instagram and Facebook. I do think those are the main places to position yourself. I think that's the top places that people are searching. Of course, there's TikTok, of course, there's other places you can be posting, but I think those are all supporting and not so much business earning. Yeah. As far as ads, do you want to add anything to that? Do you want to add anything to ads?

SPEAKER_01

I think so many people are scared of ads that it's not super saturated yet. So if you've been thinking about running ads, I would say find an expert, like a true expert. I'm not here to give ads advice. I would like to run ads, I'll say that. But I also know that I have to have somewhere for those people to land. I have to have presence on Instagram and Facebook and a website so they know I'm a real person because AI is taking over everything. Not really, that's excessive, but there's so much people want to know I'm a real person. That just chilled me.

SPEAKER_02

That just that really got me because like I feel like I'm rubbing off on you. And that's like I always speak in superlatives, and you're like, AI is running everything. It was so dramatic. It was true. It's true.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But uh learn from an expert. Um, even let somebody do it for you. You don't need 12 ads, you don't need to spend $3,000 for ads. I actually had one of my students who did like she was running, she was doing like, I think it was a wedding special, and I got the ad for it. Um, and I was like, okay, that's cool. Um, so whatever you're I don't even have tips for like where to start on that, but I do know it's not super oversaturated and it is a really great way to get in front of a very specific audience, but I've just heard enough about it to know there's wrong ways to do it and right ways to do it. So yeah, I actually have a someone that I would recommend that I'll put in the show notes for this and I'm making a note. So yeah, I think ads, ads can really benefit you, but I wouldn't run ads if you have a full calendar already. Um or if you don't have a place for people to land.

SPEAKER_02

I think we need an ad episode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Let's have an ad episode because I think that's a whole conversation. I think that is like the next layer of marketing because at that point we're like getting out of free marketing and into paid ad marketing. For sure. And I think it's interesting and relevant, but I think as far as like starter business, don't need it.

SPEAKER_01

No. So focusing if that's like the end goal, focusing on like Google, Instagram, Facebook, those are foundational. You need them, everybody's there. Yep. So I'm getting so shut up about it.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry. I'm kidding. God, I'm kidding. Um, you can never offend me. No, I mean I can't, but I'm like, it's hard because if people are listening to this and they like don't know me, then I'm like, I they have to know that I'm like joking. You know what I mean? I'm like, so I have to feel like I have to read her and be like, I'm sorry, I'm just kidding. I think Alex says I hate you so many times a day. So many times a day when actually I like wish to be married to you, and you know that. Like I'm just straight, unfortunately. Unfortunately, I'm straight and also already married. So I have both those things working against me. So we're kidding. That was also a joke. But I love you so much I would marry you. Kind of kidding, kind of not. Okay, so I want to talk about content. I'm like changing the subject. Yep. Content because I think people like overthink this. And I love what you talked about of showing the behind the scenes because I think behind the scenes is so important. You don't have to be a full-time content creator. No, you don't have to be strategizing in this insane way. You just need to be showing your work, yeah, showing who you are as a creative entrepreneur. I know we already touched on this. You're selling yourself in a way. So you need to show who you are, your client experiences, some educational tips. If, you know, once you get to that point and you can share that before and after. As crazy, like to show your editing work, to show um if you're a designer doing a rebrand, showing what it was, and here we are. And just like personal touches about your process and kind of like what differentiates you. Like, here's what I do different than others. And this is how I bring my personality and my who I am and my life into my work is all really important. People want to see what you do and what it's like to work with you. They're investing hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars into you. So show that. Show who you are and what you bring to the table and how you're different than others. I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think with uh specifically Instagram at for photographers, it's always been so easy. And not to say that we shouldn't keep posting our very beautifully curated feeds, but people want more than that. They want to like see your face and hear you talk and yes, like again, I'll say I blow up stories. I've tried to be more strategic about them, but it's just I just love sharing my life on my stories. It's like my little Snapchat built into Instagram. It's your virtual diary. It's literally, it is. Yeah. Um but I think this whole like shifting into more like video when photographers are super comfy having their pretty visuals, you kind of have the best of both worlds. And I think it's a it's a rare opening for photographers to show like not only their work, but their personality behind their work and like the process. And like Alex was saying, just how they show up for their clients. I'm gonna use another coaching example because that's my frame of reference and like my most recent, yeah, just my most recent thing. I I have a a girl that is not in the wedding photography niche. Um, she does more like family and like newborn stuff, and showing people you do need an hour. And I'm just gonna shout out Alex because she came to my home when I was maybe a month postpartum. I waited too long to do newborn photos. Yeah. And in my head, I'm like, okay, I only need like 20 minutes. My baby threw up everywhere, and we had to stop multiple times to nurse because he was just having the worst time. And so this is photography by B. Um, she does a lot of family photography, and so and she's like really, she does a great job at not underselling herself. That was something we talked about in coaching. And I was like, your pricing is at a really good place right now for where you are, even though she wants to go and and charge more. But I just encouraged her to post more about her process and like her doing her job and something that she had a client take a picture of her. She didn't ask her to, I don't think, but like, hey, take a picture of me doing my job while I'm taking your pictures. But she was like sitting in the floor reading with one of the kids from this family. Um, and she was like, I'm just, you know, it's she didn't use these words, but like it's worth the investment because I'm taking the time to read to your kids and like build trust with your kids in their home and like meet them where they're at. So I think that part of photography by B, I would not have known if she had just kept posting pretty pictures of her and like how is this different than other family sessions? And so getting a little sneak peek behind the curtain that was like, oh my gosh, I have babies. And I would love for somebody to just like sit in the floor and read with them and you like saying Miss Rachel to my children and continue to. So, anyways, that was a long-winded example.

SPEAKER_02

But it's literally also important because I think the issue with social media, other than, and I already said this, is that people are overthinking it, like I have to present perfect, or especially that like creatives are only posting the final result. Yeah. So, like, here's the photo, like here's this beautiful photo that I took, but forgetting to kind of post like the lead up to it of like, here's what was happening in the background, and here's why I positioned this photo this way, and here's why this all happened. And here was me getting ready for the day before this like perfect moment happened, but not posting the final result, but adding the humanity and like personal touch to it is so important.

SPEAKER_01

And I think showing what you value too, like different people value different things, and I think if you really want to click with your clients, you'll have similar values. So, sharing those kinds of things, whether you really value like educating, people like to book people who know their stuff. So if you like sharing education, then share that. And people also love to watch vlogs like us. So if you're vlogging yourself, getting ready for a wedding day, do that. And I love a vlog. You'll like draw, yeah, same. You will draw those people to you because we're all kind of doing the same trends, we're all producing the same kind of images. We have similar inspo, probably. Right. And so, how are you, how are you standing out at the end of the day? Sorry, again, not to overthink it, but just show up how you are, how you want to.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you just never know like what's gonna resonate with someone. And I think that's why it's important. Like exactly what you said of like how that was like important to you. She didn't know that that was gonna be that important to you when she posted it. Like, yeah, you just don't know what's gonna resonate with people and what's gonna be that like extra touch that's gonna matter the most. Yeah. They you just don't know. It could be the behind the scenes of how you handled a certain situation. Yes. And I know we've talked about this, but I do think that I'm great at mitigating family situations. And I think it's because my family is so large and insane, and I have so many crazy family dynamics that I think I'm able to manage and handle those situations better than most. Yeah. And I'm like, sorry to toot my own horn, but I really do feel that way. No, it's I seriously think I position myself well. And so showing how I handle those family photos that can be really stressful and maybe showing a video behind that may resonate with a bride thinking like, oh my gosh, my family is also crazy. And having someone that's able to handle it is gonna be great. And like you said, the stress of getting your everyone know, all moms know the stress of getting your kids ready for photos and then seeing how your photographer is going to make your children comfortable and love them, yeah, and give them that attention before you hire them for your photos that will resonate with a mom who's stressed and apprehensive about booking someone for their photos. Yeah. So it just matters and don't overthink it and just continue to show up consistently and personally and making sure, you know, you want to show your best photos, fine, show it, but bring your humanity side into it too. Yeah. Because as creative entrepreneurs, you're selling yourself. And I know I already said that, but they're paying for you. Yeah. So show who you are and what matters to you too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So for tools to create said content, I know you have some recommendations. I have a few to add as well. Oh my gosh. Okay, side note this is becoming another part of the uh epidemic of people, photographers that are, I think there's one person specifically, and I still don't know who it is, but she's getting sued and she's also suing people who talk about her. But a photographer that created AI generated images to fill her Instagram feed based on her competition, like other wedding photographers in the industry, and to post them on there and to get clients. And it's just insane. Big old scam. Yeah, it's kind of wild. So yeah, don't use don't use AI to create your Instagram feed.

SPEAKER_02

There's Jack on the podcast. Everyone say hi, Jack. Thanks for being here. Oh my gosh, that was man.

SPEAKER_01

That's it was just a brilliant, it was a very fun to say about AI. I I yeah. If AI had actually a voice, that's probably what it would sound like.

SPEAKER_02

And what you should use instead is Canva. And this is not the first thing that does Canva on the pod.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, so I will use it forever. There's never gonna be anything better. I pay for the pro and I it pays for itself.

SPEAKER_02

Coming out of my debit card every month. Don't miss it. More important than my water bill almost. Like it, I literally use Canvas so much. Currently help like planning Jack's birthday party, and I have like used it, I don't know, yeah, 14 times already. Like, seriously, been using it so much, but you can use it for your social media graphics and your Instagram posts, um, for resizing if you need to, for story templates. Grace really be using it for stories. You can use it for your pricing guide and your client documents. I have a pricing guide and a bridal guide that I built out in Canva, which I know I talked to Grace about this, but I'm thinking about selling my bridal guide because it's 60 pages and I worked really hard. But I would sell the Canva template. I'm like, Canva is so versatile and anyone can use it. There's tons of templates, so you don't have to come in thinking like, I wish I could create something. I know most of you that are listening to this are using Canva, so I don't want to get into it too much, but if you aren't using it, go ahead and get started. Yeah. Get started and use Canva. We love it.

SPEAKER_01

Do you use any scheduling tools for any of your social media? Um, I've used not uh not effectively. Right. I've always used one called preview and I don't actually I don't actually schedule anything because I'm on the free version. I only use it to curate my feed. That's literally all I use it for. And I'll like trial it to see how it looks and then I'm gonna be mad at you for that. I'm I just I don't know. I've decided I'm mad at you for that. I'm not great at like batch. I don't know. And if something in me thinks like it's gonna mess with the quality of the picture if I put it through this system and then it goes through Instagram, I just can't. And I know Canva has a scheduler too, I think, but I'm just too scared. I'm too scared. So don't listen to me on the back.

SPEAKER_02

I'm mad for mad at you for curating your feed because I could literally have an entire episode about how the way it doesn't matter as much. It doesn't matter the way your feed is presented. It's the artist in the I was about I just said Grace is doing that for her own brain. The way that your feed is presented does not matter. Don't overthink it. I didn't, I do not allow myself to let my brain go there because I want to post content that I feel like is relevant and what I want to put out, and I don't care what my feed looks like. And when we're talking about this, for those of you that don't know, we're talking about like how all the little squares look next to each other. Grace cares about that. She created she's a true artist. I am the opposite of a perfectionist, and I'm like, let me just get this done. I don't have that like aspect in me where I'm like, this has to be perfect.

SPEAKER_01

And look at you, you're still you're booking 12 weddings a year. So you're doing something right.

SPEAKER_02

That's what I'm saying. And I literally am as successful as I hope and want to be. Yeah. So it doesn't matter. But if you do want to use scheduling tools, um I don't know if I really recommend this like so early into your business, but for sure. The benefit for it if you are early in your business is that you may be working another job as well. And so if you're feeling spread thin and you want to just batch your content, like get two weeks of content scheduled so that you don't have to worry about posting all the time. Yeah. I know Grace and I mentioned this, but we love to show up on our stories as ourselves. But we're able to do that because this is our full-time job, other than being full-time moms. And so we can kind of hop in whenever we need to. But if you're working another job and you're starting out in this business and it soothes your brain and helps your workload to schedule, I have used planally. Um, and I've also used later. And so these are uses later, I think. Okay. I like later. It's a little bit more like minimalistic and planally is a little bit more like detailed, in my opinion. Um, but either one I think are great options if you want to schedule your post in advance and stay consistent in like a really busy season or you know, when you're feeling spread thin. Yeah. But um, this is why I was barking Grace down because engagement is gonna matter more than your followers and more than some numbers for this too.

SPEAKER_01

I have some numbers for this. Oh, I can't wait. Um, wait. I also have a couple of uh tool recommendations, like content creating tools. So because I was a TikTok junkie first before caring about being consistent on Instagram, I love CapCut. Love Cap Cut, just like a super easy to use video editor. And it's yeah, it's just like content creator friendly. It's not like a Final Cut Pro or anything like that. You can have it on your phone or desktop. They offer higher versions, whatever. So I love Cap Cut for videos. I know Instagram offers edits, but it doesn't have as many capabilities. But it is simple if you're going for that, going that route. And then I do use scroll S-C-R-L. I do too. I totally forgot about that one. For my carousels, and then they do have story templates. So I'll use those sometimes. And then another similar one is Unfold, and they have some really great templates too for stories, reels, carousel, just different layouts and things like that. So scroll and unfold are really great as well. Cap cut. I'm trying to think if I have anything else, but I think that's it. There are just so many subscriptions. I feel like photographers are overloaded with subscription opportunities to be able to run their business. Yes. I miss the days when you could just like pay for the app, but yes. Yeah, there we are. Okay, yes. Engagement, sorry, unless you have anything to add. Do you use unscripted? I do. I only use unscripted to do like a more accurate sun tracker because the weather app ain't cutting it.

SPEAKER_02

That's exactly why I use it. So unscripted, for those of you that don't know, this is definitely a photographer-specific app. It actually gives you like poses. So law to poses. Law to poses. Like you as a photographer can go in and kind of post um more of your like posing workflow. You can look through it for like posing inspiration. And not only like the pose itself, but like kind of how to how to guide your clients into that pose. It'll help you with that. But it also it also has like a segment to the app that tells you for the sun, like the sun positioning and like how to get your clients like perfectly backlit or sign lit or whatever you prefer.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

So that's a good app too.

SPEAKER_01

It also has uh scheduling uh capabilities too. Like it is they have a CRM now, so and the subscription isn't that much if you don't want to start with something like Pixie Set or Honey Book. Unscripted also has I've never utilized it, but um yeah, I a lot of people use it. It's just like yeah, and you can do it all from your phone. It's and then you can create like a shot list, I'm pretty sure. So it's pretty, it's pretty good. There's a lot of benefits to that. I love unscripted.

SPEAKER_02

So I guess a lot of like the marketing, marketing aspect of being a creative entrepreneur is really social media. I think there's a lot more. I have like dabbled in like print marketing, like local magazines and like stuff like that. But I feel like in the beginning of your business, we're just referring to people that are a month zero to six. Social media is gonna be the most important. Google, number one, and then social media to support your Google profile. Yeah. But and just using social media for the reason it's meant to be used, which is to be social. Replying to comments, engaging with photographers that are creative entrepreneurs that you love, responding to your messages, maybe receiving leads that way is I I receive Instagram leads all the time. Yeah, uh commenting on other accounts and interacting with your local vendors, sharing your in like your photo. And your work with them and letting them use it and tag you. Yeah. Like these are all ways to get yourself out there. And especially in the beginning, it's free. And it does take effort, but it's free.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I've preached that social media isn't a business strategy. I think it is a it's a big part of the funnel, the overall funnel. However, I would just say social media is a big part of the business strategy now, but posting and ghosting is not a business strategy. Like you have to, like we're preaching, you have to stay and engage and show that you care. You have to. That I again, I learned so much from TikTok that kind of feeds into Instagram too.

SPEAKER_02

But a college degree when you like learn more from TikTok.

SPEAKER_01

No, we're not gonna talk about that. I'm gonna finish. I'm gonna finish. I'm getting that dang degree.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um but like engagement matters more than anything. And I actually pulled some numbers from a really reputable source called DIYphotography.net. And period. Which, but you know, whatever. So watch time and retention is like the biggest ranking signal in the algorithm, like 35% or something crazy like that. Saves is about 25%. Shares and DMs is 20%, and the very bottom of the list at 5% is likes. So your engagement quality, like you need to be engaging with other things to kind of earn engagement in the app, also creating like engageable content. Like you want to create shareable content, that's a whole other thing. But if you're not engaging and active, don't spend hours on the app. But you will, it's like this, this uh, I don't know, they're like keeping tallies and scores or whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's truly it's just like what we were saying about Google, like the reviews is like ranking. It's like you gather the reviews, you earn points. Yeah. And like the same with social media, like engagement is earning you the points. Yeah. In order to like get reviews, you get more visibility on Google. More engagement equals more personal engagement, engagement for you on social media. It just matters. It's like all of them, all of them want to rank you, you know?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, and it's an algorithm, it's like a machine. It's it doesn't have feelings, it doesn't say, oh, so and so that that was a good piece of content. So it's like it's running off of actual numbers. So we have to like play the game. Yeah, it's all yeah. But still have fun.

SPEAKER_02

But still kind of wanna take the fun out of it. Those stats are really interesting because you're definitely more present on social media than I am. I'm definitely more of a badge poster and then I show up on stories and which is awesome. Yeah, whatever, whatever I can, but a lot less than you. So I am intrigued by those stats myself, myself. But I think what's really important as a beginner, so I'm back to month zero to six, our first year business owners that staying consistent with your marketing, with what we've talked about, engaging and staying consistent, and just even the imperfect side of it, that's gonna book more than someone that's waiting for perfection. I don't think there is a way to achieve perfection, to be honest. I do think, of course, y'all know I love Caitlin James and idolize her as a photographer and business owner. Yeah. I think she is amazing. But she shows up. I know she has a marketing team supporting her, but she shows her face personally on her social media and stays really consistent. Yes, herself. I think that's so important. Referrals, the word of mouth, that's gonna get people to your page and being active and showing your face is really important. They're hiring you, but the visibility is gonna beat the perfection every time. It just is for sure. What matters? Okay, circle back around. Let's I know I was about to let me bring it home, baby. Let me bring home the bacon. Here it is. This is your first year marketing checklist if you're a note taker. If you're a note taker, I'm a note taker. Number one, create your Google business listing. Number two, set up your business Instagram and start posting consistently, scheduling whatever you need to do. Okay. Number three, join your local Facebook groups. Find the vendor groups, find the bride groups, find the mom groups if you're a mom, find where you need to be and show up there. Number four, add it to your workflow to ask happy clients for reviews. Not only when you deliver the gallery, but a follow-up because they're gonna be too excited about your deliverables to immediately leave a review.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Number five, use Canva, not Chat GPT for simple marketing materials. Those all support your business. And it's really important to have those materials to use Canva and use some of the tools we mentioned to help support you in that. And number six, most important, if you hear nothing else other than Google, engage with your audience and community. Continue to engage and continue to show up. The visibility is going to matter more than the perfection. Stay consistent and stay visible and bring yourself into it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Someone that I have studied that has studied and is studying specifically Instagram, carousels, and stories. And I shared this in our photographer community as well. But Jordan Dooley, she has her own name brand. She is her own person, but she also has an Instagram called The Story Visuals. And she started teaching about stories first years ago, and she picked it back up recently and is doing a lot of trial and error and sharing real numbers. Um, and I got her course, and it is so meaty. Like the first video in there is like 40 minutes, y'all. Like it is, it is packed. But I got the bundle for carousels and stories and strategies with those and like different approaches for different content pillars and different, it's not even just for photographers. I think she used to do photography, but that's like not her thing anymore. Um she does a lot of like content creation and social media and all of that kind of stuff. So she's she's in it. So I'm gonna put that in the show notes. If you need a starting point that is like being practiced currently right now with proven results from someone super reputable, I'm gonna put that link down below. It goes on sale occasionally, and I it might be on sale right. I don't know if it's still gonna be by the time we post this. But check that out if you need a place to start. Just really great strategies and templates and starting points for that. So that's all I have to say on that. But I'll put that down below.

SPEAKER_02

It's important. No, that's good. I want to, I'm like curious. I want to see it. And I had one more side tip that of course I thought of like after the fact. I feel like I've I always like close it up and then I'm like, hold on one more thing. Wait, wait, one more thing. As if we're not gonna record again. I know, right? I do think it's really important in your first year to focus on the free marketing. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Google the social media and blah, blah, blah. But another way to do that is connect with other vendors in your industry. Yeah. So when you start working, working with the planners, the florists, venues, and I know you know that like I know that you know that like the venue aspect of it has been really, really important and big for my business. Yeah. Yes. So using the vendors in the industry, for sure. Those relationships will turn into referrals for you too. As soon as, you know, so a bride may hire their planner, they're going to have your name in their mouth as well. And so the referrals are the best kind of marketing. So not just your past brides, not just your past clients for your family session or the moms for your newborn session, but the vendors in your industry as well is really important.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. No, I think like beginners, whether you have, you know, finances to allocate to education or not, uh, I think we've hit both of the spectrums, like both ends of the spectrum. Both of the sorry. Perfect. Just thinking you'll love on the spectrum. We've hit we've hit both sides of it. So across the board beginners, I don't know what your resources look like, whatever. There are tons of free resources that we've listed, apps that you can do for free or paid and have different capabilities, ways to network if you can't pay for education. Like there's just so many different things that you can do to grow rapidly. It's kind of hard to not grow rapidly in this industry because there's just TikTok, like YouTube. There's just utilize every tool you have that is free. But yeah, that's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_02

Just that's all we have to say. No, that's all we have to say. Issue with that's all that we have to say is that it's not all that we have to say. Yep. Say less. Or not saying less. And I do want to make an episode about ads. I think that is like I wrote that down. Yep. Yeah. And just like different paid marketing ways is definitely where we should go next.

SPEAKER_01

But I think like more of uh speaking to more established photographers, I think would be a good way to think about that. Sorry, I'll cut that out. No, us brainstorming event.

SPEAKER_02

No, I love it. I'm seriously love it. But we're we're focused on engagement, we're focused on the first few months, we're focused on visibility, and we think that's most important. Um, so for sure to focus there. And like we said, reach out to us anytime we want to help you. Um, I do have marketing experience. Grace also has marketing experience hugely, and she's also like deep in into it right now. So yeah, that's it. I hope this helps you guys get started. Don't overthink it. We we really just want to emphasize the showing up is what matters the most. So um I can't wait. We're gonna get into our first clients and growth readiness next. And I am so excited for all you guys that have been following beginning to end with the series. We hope it's been super practical and helpful and that we're helping you like jumpstart the beginning of your career.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So exciting. All right, friends. We will chit chat with you next time. Yay, thanks, y'all. Bye.