Performance Rewired

Episode 7 - Why Elite Dancers and Gymnasts Need Elite Levels of Proprioception

• Yuka Sugiura & Nikki Bybee

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In this episode of Performance Rewired, we dive into the essential role of proprioception in athletic and artistic performance, exploring how elite performers might still have gaps in their sensory awareness and how to optimize this critical system. We share insights from our coaching experiences as well as practical exercises to improve proprioceptive capacity.

Key Topics:

  • The importance of having high-levels of proprioceptive awareness for elite athletes, dancers, and gymnasts
  • How injuries and repetitive patterns can limit proprioceptive acuity
  • Exercises to enhance proprioceptive awareness, including two-point discrimination and graphesthesia
  • The impacts of sensory reweighting, like an overreliance on visual inputs to understand where you are in space
  • The role of sensory mapping in injury recovery and movement

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to proprioception and its relevance for performance

00:27 - Common misconceptions about elite proprioception levels

01:23 - Life updates

03:54 - Observations from coaching diverse groups and managing threshold points in the course of a class

04:51 - How having a neural lens aids in calibrating performance level changes during a class

08:39 - The hierarchy of systems that drive movement and where proprioception falls in that hierarchy

09:10 - Proprioception defined

09:44 - Why high performers need high-definition 3D brain-body maps

10:02 - How injuries and repetitive patterns can lead to gaps in proprioceptive maps

11:00 - Clues pointing to proprioceptive deficits and cases of intentionally ignoring information

from the limbs13:17 - Sensory reweighting: Reliance on proprioceptive information vs visual and vestibular inputs

15:37 - Effects of mirror reliance and visual dependence in artistic movement

17:19 - Using resistance bands to enhance body awareness

19:26 - Assessing proprioception through two-point discrimination

22:02 - Graphesthesia and sensory exercises for performance, pain and injury recovery

26:30 - The importance and performance impacts of being able to feel all varieties of sensations on the skin

27:40 - Looking at foam rolling or massage guns as sources of sensory inputs to create a different output (a change to muscular tone or function)

29:15 - Practical tips: self-massage, brushing, and other sensory strategies before movement

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Performance Rewired, a podcast for movement experts seeking to unlock the secrets behind optimal performance using a brain-based lens. I'm Nikki Bybie.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm Yuka Segura. We're master neurotrainers and performance coaches for elite and professional athletes and dancers. And we'll be sharing insights, tools, and a little behind the scenes of what we do. And if you want alternatives to more and more reps, this podcast is for you. Welcome to Performance Rewired. This is episode seven. We are talking about proprioception. This is Yuka. And I'm Nikki. And we this is a this is like, I don't know, we talk about proprioception a lot. We think we think we hear about it a lot in performance and sports and therapeutic modes. But we're gonna just get into like why is it important, uh, particularly for elite athletes, for elite dancers, um, and where are things missing? Where maybe we think like, oh, well, they're elite level performers. Of course they have elite level proprioception, but sometimes that's not the case. Um, so just quick life update. Um I feel like we're both in like summer intensive camp mode. Um, I just got back from Minneapolis yesterday, and then last week I was in Florida. And so, right in the gymnastics world, we have these like two, three-day camps um with anywhere from 30 to 130 gymnasts, and it can it can be a lot, but it's actually in some ways a little to some degree, it becomes a little bit of my lab as well as benefiting the kids with drills that help them. Um, and so I thought of you, Nikki, because there's a gymnast who is doing a switch leap, which is basically, I don't know what you call it in ballet, but it's like a switch leap.

SPEAKER_01

Switch leap, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So switch leap. She's doing a beam, um, and she's trying to get to 180, right on this actual split part. And she was, and we did some proprioceptive, which I'll talk about a little bit later, but what I do often with gymnasts who are trying to get like a full 180 split. And then I was like, okay, we're gonna, so those weren't working. I wasn't seeing a lot of change. And so I was like, okay, when you're on the ground, can you achieve like a full split? She's like, yeah. And which granted, like when you're on the beam, it's a little scarier because you don't want to straddle the beam because that has absolutely no fun at all. Um, so I did a convergence and divergence drill. So I did a near and far where she would focus on her thumbnail and then focus on like the part of the beam where she was gonna land. I actually put like this little foam dice die on there. And so she was looking at the dot, looking at her thumbnail, looking at the dot, looking at the thumbnail. So she switched back and forth. And then the next one was like 50% better, like much better. She was like, Oh yeah. Um, so anyway, yeah, convergence basically vision for the win, even though we're talking about perception, but that was that was an exciting win. Um, so anyway, so yeah, it's a lot of fun. And then a lot of times the girls are like their favorite part of the the camp was the brain tricks. Yeah. Which is, you know, in the moment, that's how they come off because I see them for like, you know, really quickly one at a time. And I'm just do my best to figure out like what would I apply right here. But anyway, so it's a lot of fun. Um, a few more to go this this summer and fall.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then what about you? What are you up to?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, life update. Let's see. Well, yeah, I've been doing a lot of traveling and summer workshops as well. And I learn a lot from, you know, from each group, I would say. Every group is definitely different. Um and today I watched this group who struggled yesterday. Um, so today I came in with an a new approach or just slightly shifted things for them. And it was interesting to see the threshold, like where where things started to get chaotic for the group as a whole. You know, some people obviously the outliers are at the top and they were managing well, but the whole group, when we were we were doing um some pirouette preps, and it was very clear when the group struggled. And I was like, this is so interesting. So we started with convergence, because that's, you know, I spent time setting them up to get better convergence yesterday. Today, we reviewed convergence and added a Brock string, and then I gave them a little bit of visual acuity and dynamic visual acuity. And I left it at that. I kept the other vestibular stuff out because I was trying to keep it real simple and you know, real easy step forward instead of giving them too much and having them overwhelmed. So I was very selective with what I gave them today, and they did really great when we started into the first stuff for balancing and getting them to actually do full turns. And then as soon as we gave that boost in what we would expect in a ballet class, that's where the chaos started. So I was like, oh, that's interesting, you know, and from like a dance instructor perspective, I might have been like stressing out because they lost their cleanliness and the room was like struggling and you know, and but from the perspective on the lens I'm using now, I just was like curious, you know, why why that little step forward was such a a benchmark of where each individual student was succeeding or struggling. And I was like, wow, that's like a clear line in the sand. Right there is the threshold, and I can see the threshold. And so I think there was some panic in the room because everyone's like, oh no, what happened? And I honestly probably would have felt that way a couple of years ago. But I was just sitting there, like, okay, I know where the benchmark is. So how can I step some of them back? And it was just so much easier to look at it through the lens of the nervous system and just say, okay, they're getting this part of it. And then it's the this part of it. I could clearly see which part of it was still a challenge. And it just made me like think about, you know, how glad I am to have another set of tools in my pocket instead of just panicking and then trying to like force them into something that their nervous system isn't really ready for. I can just calmly look at them and be like, that's okay, no judgment. We'll just find a different way to get what we need to out of this. So yeah, that's kind of my life update. And like I said, every group is different, and I've learned so much from each of the groups that I go into. It helps me see like how I can um clarify things for people. And, you know, it's it's like really fun. I'm having a great time. Yeah, awesome. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it is like because and you don't you don't normally work, and this is the way like these intensives and workshops go. It's like this is not your normal group that you see.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. No, and so it's also you don't know them so much, and then having to calibrate and figure out based on what you're seeing happening in the room. Yeah, it's a tall order. Yeah, really like yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I came in and said to the director, because she had a specific mission with this group.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I said, Okay, well, since you know where the group is and I don't, in their like level and their abilities, why don't you make the exercise that you want to see enhanced?

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And then I'll do the neural input and I'll develop some neural skills, and then we can step into your exercise, and then we can go in between, you know, that and what I do to see how they are responding and how they're bouncing up in their performance or bouncing down, whatever may be the case, because we could definitely see both.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. No, I love that. That I love that approach where it's like that they're not, yeah, you don't see them every time. So what is it that they're working on? What is it that you're they're seeing? What is it that you as the instructor, as a coach, are seeing? And then how can I provide right the other lens to see if there's another way of getting at the improvement? Um, so smart. Um I love it. So fun. And it is, it's learning. Like with every time you go in with another group, like there's always yeah, room to learn. Like, how how can I, what could I have done differently, or how could I implement this? Because yeah, the scenario are different, the levels are different, what they can absorb is different, right? Yeah. All right, very cool. Um, all right. So with all of that, uh yeah, even though I feel like proprioception is like the sad third sibling. Like you've got the very funky and cool visual and then vestibular system siblings. But so proprioception, just to, and then you've got proprioception, which is actually in the hierarchy of systems that help us move. Proprioception is last. Um, so proprioception is the brain's ability to sense the position, the movement, right? The movement speed, the movement direction, and then the load that the body is taking on based on sensory input from our skin, from our muscles, tendons, joints, and then even the bones. And so it's just the way that's it's the way that we're designed to understand what is going on with our body, right? So, through how do we feel where we are. Um, and then of course, like why is and of we know proprioception is important for knowing where we are. Um, but the way that I like defining it is that high performers in particular need a super high definition and complete 3D map of their body, right? Their brain has or our brains has have a map of the body, but we want to make it like 4K, 5K, as high definition as possible. And particularly dancers, gymnasts who have been in their uh career for a long time, it's very likely they've had injuries or they have repetitive patterns that they do over and over and over. And so their proprioceptive met, even though they're elite movers, could very well be limited and they have pixels missing. Um, so that's kind of how I look at it. Um, and then Nikki, if you want to add anything or kind of talk into a little bit about where does proprioception happen? Or like what's actually going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it it's a lot of information is being sent up to the parietal lobe and it's coming through skin receptors and receptors underneath our tissue and giving us information about this map and where we are in space in our joint positions. And when you see dancers who maybe have, I mean, you can't say always that it's because of this. We don't have a thing on your brain scanning, but some of the things that I sometimes pay attention to when I'm looking at a dancer and I'm like, I wonder if this is a parietal lobe issue is um how their feet are connecting to the floor. Because I think that tells a lot. Like when you boost the sensation of the feet up through the body, you usually get really great response through the chain of motion. And so I think I've wondered, I don't know if this is true or not. So don't go around and tell people this. But I have wondered when we're wearing point shoes and our feet are blistered and raw, or you know, you're getting blisters from being on the bar or on the uh Palm and the horse.

SPEAKER_00

Palma horse, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Palma horse. Yeah. Like, like how much are we starting to tone down those sensors in order to do our task, which may or may not be impacting, you know, the liveliness of our proprioception because we're maybe turning off receptors because it's like, I just want to do the skill, so I'm gonna just shut this down so I don't feel so much.

SPEAKER_00

That is so interesting. So, okay. Yeah. So the most, yeah, because you have because it freaking hurts when you've got a blister, whether that's in on your foot and your point shoe, or like if you have a rip, like when you're yeah. And yeah, so do you yeah, do you basically like try to shut down like sensation on your hand or your foot, which are the most important like appendages to help you? That is so interesting. I've never thought about that. Yeah, because you're like, I have to ignore this, and so that means I have to ignore my hand. Yes. Yeah, that's interesting. Huh.

SPEAKER_01

And then it's like go do that really hard thing without knowing where your foot or your hand really are. Good luck.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So it also, I mean, that sensory loop also helps with um motor planning. So, you know, it's it's super important. And yeah, I can't say that I haven't met a dancer yet. I actually there was one who was really, really great in her parietal lobe yesterday. Really, really high performance in I shouldn't say parietal lobe, in her proprioception. Her proprioception was really good. Maybe the best in proprioception of a person that I've randomly picked out of a camp.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And I was like, oh wow, her proprioception is great. And then I was watching her turn, and she was very hesitant to turn with her head spotting. And I was like, I wonder if that's something, you know, I can't tag it unless I do an assessment. But I'm like, I wonder if this is something with the eyes or if this is something with the vestibular system where she wants to keep her head stacked and not spot. Um, but her proprioception was remarkable. And so I was like, I'm wondering if one of these systems is booting up because the other one's booted down. And if I worked with her one-on-one a bit, I could probably get this other system to boot up, which would enhance her performance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's it. Can you talk a little bit about what it was about her movement that had you like gave you the observation that she had a especially keen proprioceptive system?

SPEAKER_01

Well, we were doing a mapping exercise.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And she was like, I think she missed one. And usually when I do a mapping thing, it's like multiple misses and it's very clear. And so I was like, wow, she's really doing great with, you know, this mapping exercise. And so I was like, okay, she's got this part down, but then there's other things, you know, that I can see that are holding her back.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting. Cause yeah, usually it's like as I was saying at the beginning, like the visual and vestibular system are the things that are going to primarily di uh what's the word? Not dictate, but like tell command the body, like where to what the what the book what the muscles and the what muscular skeletal system should do in response to what it's taking in from the vision of vestibular systems. Proprioceptive system is also doing that. But yeah, like maybe she's become so reliant on that and not trusting, or it's because she's so dependent on it, right? Her there's been a re sensory reweighting. And so she relies on her visual system or vestibular system less. Yeah. Um, and another interesting thing that can happen with ballet in particular uh is that because of the mirror, that I don't know if you see this a lot, but there's like a dis well A moving from a mirror to a theater where you don't have that now. And so like now there's been such a heavy reliance on seeing what I'm doing that they may not feel what they're doing. And so one quick story. Um, so I I knew this tennis player. Well, he was a tennis player. He had been to he had been doing a lot of ballroom dance and had played tennis before, but then decided to drop the dancing and then go to tennis. And he had a really hard time figuring out like what his elbow was doing. And I get this a lot in gymnastics. Like, well, I'm told that my form is sloppy, but I can't feel it. Okay. Right. And you probably see that too. Like, I can't, like you asked them, like, okay, your legs are bent, your legs are bent. Like, can you feel that? No, I can't feel that feels like they're straight. Right. But similarly, like he couldn't figure out what his arm was doing in space when he was swinging. And so when actually his parents came up with this, were like, well, he's in the in front of the mirror a lot when he was a ballroom dancer. And so, like, he was relying on where he was in space because he had a mirror to tell him. And now all of a sudden he's like, doesn't have that. And so he can't figure out even like he right, and he was a he, I think he was a successful ballroom dancer. So like clearly knew how to make the correct shapes, right? But then all of a sudden the mirror's gone and he doesn't know what he's doing. So um, yeah, so that is one thing. So when a gymnast says, you know, because they're graded on four or they're scored on form, like I can't tell, then to me that's like some proprioceptive information is missing. Right. And so one of the things that I do is add a band. So like we all, a lot of dancers and gymnasts have these like, they have like multiple loops, like it's a chain of loops on a stretchy band. Cause that's the safest to like put your leg in. So we'll just do exercises where they can actually feel straight or not in the band, or create a shape like while in the band, because that little bit of resistance is giving them that proprioceptive information. Um, I also use the brush, but that doesn't seem to help as much. Right. That brush, um the dry brush, which I talk about all the time, it's one of my favorite tools. Um, but what that's doing is stimulating the cutaneous receptors, so the receptors in the skin. And very often just brushing the entire body or just brushing the legs, the response that that I get, or I that the athletes that are I give the brush to is either things so they get immediate improvement in range of motion, or very often they all of a sudden feel like their their legs are lighter, their limbs are lighter, and so they can actually run faster or they feel more power. Um uh, but yeah, so where I was going with all this is that it's I've used the brush thinking like, okay, maybe that can help them feel their leg a little better. That one, not as much as actually giving them like creating a coat closed chain situation where they can actually feel what their leg is doing. And then that helps them. Um yeah. So one way, just one way to aid proprioception if they can't feel something. And again, like they're moving other than when they're in contact with the ground or in contact with the equipment, their body is flying through the air. There's no resistance from the air. Yeah. And so it's harder to feel what's actually happening.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so back to you know, Yuka mentioned what kind of activities do we do for checking proprioception. And one of the things that I do is a two-point discrimination test. And you can just do this with two pencils or two toothpicks, or I have my dancers use hair pins a lot because they're available. They're usually right in their hair, and they can take them right out and use them. And you partner up, and I'll have one dancer pricking the bottom of the foot or top of the foot or around the ankle. That's usually where I start, with either two hair pins or one. And the receiver has to distinguish with their eyes closed if they're getting two pricks on their skin or one. And you would think, you know, okay, this can't be that hard, but it is quite difficult for some people. I also do um an activity where we'll put two fingers on like two toes, because we're dancers, we touch each other's toes, we're gross like that. But I'll say, okay, put a finger on one toe and then a finger on another toe, but we set them down simultaneously and we asked the dancer how many toes are between. And I think I had the most entertaining version of that last week, where I had one dancer tell me she had four toes between the two toes. And I was like, Oh, she thinks she has six toes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which is I love that. I love that game or that exercise to yeah. Yeah. It's it's shockingly difficult. It is, right? And the one thing I do tell them when I do this with both dancers and gymnasts, because they are tend to be more perfectionistic, right? And want to be want to be correct. Yes, is that I make sure that the partner that is doing the like when they Boop their fingers on the toes, like do not tell them if they're right or wrong.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't have the answer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, every answer is correct because of this like, you know, potential for performance anxiety. And you want this to be a successful exercise. And if they're so concerned about being right, it no longer like it reduces the effect of it, right? Because they're now worried about being correct. Anyway. Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I don't always remind myself to tell them that, but I have told them that too. Like, don't worry if you're right or wrong. But it's like just information for you to understand your body better and how you can produce better movement if you just enhance something.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I also do graphitisia, which is did I say that right? Graphitisia? Tisia?

SPEAKER_00

I think graphithes graphitesia. Tisia anyway, we'll write it out in the notes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Graphitisia. But I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um which is just essentially what you do as a kid growing up. Naturally, um, a lot of times kids entertain each other by writing things on the other person's back or the inside of their hand. And we do that with just like, I'll start them with write a letter from the person's name that you are, you know, working with. And so they'll do that directly on the skin to just boost some activity in the parietal lobe and hopefully give a better awareness to the dancer and where they are in space and what's coming up through that system.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I forgot about that one. That's a really fun one to do, like in a in a big group setting. Yeah. Yeah. And to do it actually on their back, also, because so can I talk about the homunculi or homunculus for a second? Um, so there's we have the sensory and motor maps essentially, right? So representation of their entire body in the brain. And there's something called a homunculus, which is basically just this visual representation of the dig the size and scale that of those body parts relative to how much, how many neurons or how much actual geographic or how much real estate in the brain is dedicated to any of those things. And so when you look at these things, they're kind of these grotesque, weird-looking characters, but the hands are enormous, the eyes, the tongue, the mouth, the face is enormous, the feet are quite large, but then the limbs are tiny and the trunk is tiny.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Meaning that like very little sensory information is coming from those places. And so one thing we can do to help them is actually give them like the graphestia, the exercise to help them pay attention to those parts, right? And have the brain pay attention to those parts, because particularly in artistic pursuits, right, the spine is so important.

SPEAKER_01

Um so great for people who are coming back from injury or if they're getting pain in a certain area. Yes. Sometimes if just a little bit more proprioceptive feedback will like help you manage the pain, even though it seems ridiculously simple. Yes. Um, it gives information that you would not think mattered, but it really does, because you can honestly, like I've had people poke around me and get me to stop sending a pain signal, and I was like thinking, oh, there's something really wrong. And then it's just like a couple pricks with a toothpick or two toothpicks or whatever, and then bringing more awareness to that area. Um, one of the dancers I worked at with during the season was concerned about Heracles, common issue, and was calling about Heracles and the pain. And she had been to someone and been told that she had, you know, an unusual Achilles. I won't get into why. But then she called and I was like, I mean, take out your hairpin and start. You know, it's better if you have a partner, um, because your brain is smart and it's going to be able to tell if you're doing two pricks or one. But I was like, just go ahead and let's have you just prick yourself and then do a little brushing in that area and see if we can get a response. And so we did, and she felt way better. And it was like, oh, you know, so simple. And sometimes we just think there's no way this simple exercise is really going to have an impact, and it does, because as we always say, the brain is in charge of our movement and it's in charge of our pain signals, and it's in charge of our ability to be flexible, or our ability to power. So while it seems very simple and almost too simple to be believable, it can be very, very impactful if you're trying to, you know, boost your performance or manage pain through a performance or something that like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I've had similarly similar success with just like figuring out what sensory input or just any novel input that's not just your hands, and sometimes even it is your hands, right? That like this, you know, using a dry brush. Um, because we're just right. So the brain is always looking for safety if it understands that certain signals, whether it's because of injury or pain or surgery or a scar or even a tattoo, that not all of the signals are coming in as expected. Yeah. And that to the brain is like, well, how am I gonna know when something dangerous touches my skin? Right. I'm not gonna know. And so now that's a threat signal and the brain, right, doesn't feel safe, and then it can actually create a protective response. So all the things Nikki was mentioning. So yeah, so simple as brushing, get a toothpick, get a paper clip, right? And poke around an area where you've had pain or where there's less motion, or maybe where you have a scar or have had had surgery. Um, just really simple. Just think like what kind of sensations can I apply, and let's see which one I respond to the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I think, I mean, I've wondered how much of foam rolling is really about the proprioceptive input that you're getting while you're foam rolling. I don't know if there's research. There probably is some research on that, but I haven't looked into it yet. Um, but you know, that's something dancers love doing is sitting around all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And it's just, you know, to me, that's just another way of waking up your sensory system. If that's what you like and your body seems to respond to it, that's great. And there are other tools. If you've been doing that for a long time, there's other tools you can pick up that can give you more information and better mapping if you're already doing some of the ones that are kind of classic to those settings, uh, dance and gymnastics.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, vibration tools, right. And if you if you start thinking of that as not so much like, oh, I'm doing something to my muscle tissues to warm them up, or maybe that's part of it. But what's actually happening is that your nervous system and your brain ultimately are deciding to change muscle tone as a result of the sensory input they're getting from the massager, from the roller uh foam roller. Right. So there is some actual mechanical work happening, but in the majority of the change that is happening is actually happening as a response, like because the brain is taking in that information and then creating a different output, which is a change to the muscles. Um yeah. So, yeah, so so yeah, just any sensory information that you can give your body, whether it's things that you already do, massage or not massage, like the massage guns or even massage, right? That's sensory information, right? Self-massage, uh foam roller, et cetera, brush, um, to just give your like sensory before you start moving. Yes. Um, right, to help your body under and it sounds so silly because you're like, well, my I brain, my yeah, my brain knows where I am in space, but to just amplify the signals from the periphery to aid that even more.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And you can do it with your hands, like padding, brushing, raindrops, karate chops, you know, like all of those things count as sensory input when you're, you know, if you're like sitting in a classroom and you're like, I have nothing, I have no tools. You still do. If you have hands, you can do something. Absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

All right. So that's a wrap. We'll talk more about perception, I'm sure, other times. There's like many other points of points of jumping off here. Um, but did you want to anything else? Otherwise, I can't. No, I think that's good. All right. So uh please do if you don't already subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening. Uh rate us, review us. Um, we do have a YouTube channel with some of the exercises uh that we talk about during the recording. Um, and then definitely send us your questions. Yes. All right, so that is it. Proprioception for the win.

unknown

All right.

SPEAKER_00

And we'll see you next time on Performance Rewired. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_01

Do it again. One more time, do it again. One more time, do it again. One more time, one more time, one more time, one more time, one more time.