Can Gluten-Free Heal Your Gut?

For many women, cutting gluten is a game changer—but it’s often just the beginning. A lot of us still notice lingering digestive issues, so… what’s a girl to do?

In this episode of Eat with Dominique, I sit down with Surya Milner, founder of Empress of Ghee, to talk about her gluten-free journey and how she reimagined ghee as a gluten-free, lactose-free cooking fat that brings richness back into food while supporting gut health, too.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Was in grad school, I didn't have a lot of money, so I wasn't really in a place to be going to multiple specialists. I thought for myself, I'm gonna kind of just run this experiment and see what happens when I cut out gluten.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hi everyone, I'm Dominique, and welcome to Eat with Dominique, the podcast for women with gluten sensitivities, IBS, and other gut challenges who want to eat confidently and pain-free. For many women, cutting gluten is a game changer, but it's often just the beginning. A lot of us still notice lingering digestive issues. So, what's a girl to do? In this episode of Eat with Dominique, I sit down with Surya Milner, founder of Empress of Ghee, to talk about her gluten-free journey and how she reimagined Ghee as a gluten-free, lactose-free cooking fat that brings richness back into food while supporting gut health too. Don't forget to like and subscribe to the Eat with Dominique podcast for more conversations like this. I can't wait for you to hear this. So, without further ado, grab a seat and let's eat with Dominique. The story of Emperor City came from such a personal place, right? So five years ago, you know, you were in grad school in your early 20s, and you were told that, you know, you might have trouble getting pregnant in the future because of a thyroid condition. What do you, I guess, remember most about that moment? And I guess how did that kickstart your gut health journey?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah, I mean, I was shocked in that moment. I still remember the feeling of being in that kind of sterile fluorescent. It was a in a hospital, the doctor's office. So I was shocked because I was I was young and I knew enough about health at that time to know that that was very abnormal and that that was a red flag. Um usually what an early 20s, you know, late teens, like those are the most fertile years of a woman's life. Um and I also knew that the hormone equation was it wasn't existing in a vacuum. So I knew that, you know, I wasn't as far along in my health and wellness journey as I am now, but I had the kind of inkling that something was off with my hormones, something else with my my body. It was impacting the rest of my body. Everything was kind of downstream of that. Um, and so uh yeah, it it really kind of made me stop in my tracks and and think, okay, you know, I I thought that I knew what health was. I thought that I knew what it meant to be healthy. You know, I was the kind of person who would be shop at a place like Whole Foods or some other natural grocer and um just assume automatically that I could trust whatever products were there because they were in a health food store. Um, and that was kind of the moment where I realized, okay, I should probably start looking at like what's actually in the food that I eat and what I'm eating, when I'm eating it, et cetera. Um, and in that moment at the doctor's office, she gave me a choice. She said, you know, we can either put you on medication right now, um, or, you know, we can wait and you'll still be infertile. But when you want to get pregnant, she was like, Do you want to get pregnant right now? And I said, No, I don't want to get pregnant right now, but I want to be able to get pregnant, right? And so that was kind of my wake-up call to to see if I could heal my body first through food before resorting to a different intervention.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yeah. What I guess what for you made you realize it was like the hormones that were off balance?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah. So I mean, the thyroid is a hormone, right? So, or thy there are thyroid hormones. Sorry, the thyroid is not a hormone, but there are thyroid hormones like TSH, T4, free T3, um, and that's all related to hormonal health. Um, and so if your body is producing too few hormones or too much, that can impact your ability to get pregnant, right? Which is essentially like a hormonal um process. So that was kind of the key to me where I was like, okay, like it's the it's the hormones which are and impacting the my fertility. And that was also kind of the wake-up call that all of these things are related, right? So um I kind of think about hormonal health. I mean, hormonal health and gut health are are related, right? So um that that was kind of the wake-up call for me of like, okay, I need to focus on my hormonal health and my gut health and really just my whole body health, um, to see what I can do. And I started doing a lot of research. I started reading books by people like Mark Hyman. He was really influential for me, listening to his podcasts. And I was just trying to understand. I mean, I don't have a science background, so I was like, I don't know what's going on, um, but I trust people who do. And I started doing a lot of research, and I kept seeing um this kind of correlation between autoimmune issues. So Hashimoto's was um what I had at the time. Um, and uh I kept seeing core correlations between autoimmune issues and gluten. And so that was I I was in grad school, I didn't have a lot of money, right? So I wasn't um really in a place to be going to multiple specialists at the time. And so I thought for myself, I was like, well, I'm gonna kind of just run this experiment and see what happens when I cut out gluten for four months and I'll get retested. I did that and I cut out gluten, I cut out dairy, I was very strict about it. I I didn't have any like, you know, days where I ate glue, whatever. I was like, I'm really serious about this. Um and yeah, I I felt better immediately. So there was just this shift in how I was feeling on a day-to-day basis. I before I made those choices, I was extremely fatigued all the time. Like I would sleep for 12 hours and not want to wake up. Like I wouldn't want to get up because I was just tired. I was cold all the time. Um, I had acne. I um I just I wasn't feeling 100% ever. Um, and then when I I struggled with bloating a lot, and after I made those changes, I just noticed an immediate shift in my energy levels. Um, I felt like I was more able to take on my days. Um my hands and feet were always cold. This is a common thing with hypothyroidism. It sounds like it's not a big deal, but when when you live with constantly cold uh hands and feet, it it can really be um quite quite a pain. Um, so that was one symptom that cleared pretty quickly. Um, and when I say quickly, I mean over the course of six months, right? It wasn't like a night and day thing, but I I started to notice improvements um shortly after that.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah. And I guess in the moment when you realize that like the gut health and the hormone health were related, was that like the doctor telling you that? Was that your research that you were doing? How did you figure that out? Because they are, but like I don't think my mind would immediately have jumped, have jumped to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Well, I mean, the doctor, the doctor kind of hinted at that a little bit, but I think the doctor was more so unfortunately, kind of like, here's a pill. If you want it, take it. If not, maybe we don't have that much to to talk to or talk to each other about. Um, so I think it was really mostly my my research um in in looking into that. Um, and and that, I mean, has been a huge part of my health journey is just like learning and trying to inform myself. And there's a lot of noise out there, but um it's it's worth trying to parse through the noise to figure out what's going on and what might work for you, especially if you're in a position like I was, where I just didn't have I didn't have the means at that point that I was in grad school to to you know spend a lot of money on specialists.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah, no, that's a great point. It's kind of like that idea of like no one will be like as committed to whatever that thing is you want as you, like you're saying, like it might just tell you to take something or whatever, but you know, like at least if there is another way, you can try to figure it out on your own before you have to take, you know, a pill for forever or something. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Um, I guess looking back now, like in the moment when you first you were kind of dealing with those gut issues, what was it like to be dealing with that when you, like you said, you thought you were doing everything right, you know, whole foods and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

I mean, it's frustrating, I think. I think a lot of women feel this way, and men too, probably, um, when you feel like you're doing everything right or you feel like you're doing everything that you can and maybe there is still some lingering um problems. But I will say, I think what gave me hope was that even the small things that I was doing at that time in my health journey were giving me results. So it wasn't like I was trying a million things and nothing was working. It wasn't like that. I felt like I was just taking steps slowly. And I think that's um what I would tell myself back, like if I could tell my talk to myself back at that point, like I would say um you're on the right track and you know, good things don't come overnight, like you'll figure it out, right? And no journey, it's not a night and day thing, it's not even necessarily a linear thing, and it's a whole life approach, right? It's not even just about the food that you eat, it's also about what you consume on online, it's about your conversations with your friends and family and how those make you feel. It's about what you're spending your free time doing when you're not working or whatever it is. So um, yeah, I think my my idea of like a health journey has kind of broadened over the years. And in the beginning, it was just food. And that's really important, right? Because we eat three meals a day. Um, so it's like you you want to make sure you're looking at that because that's kind of the foundation. But then once you have that in check, it broadens out a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

So yeah, yeah, that's very true. That's very true. Um, I guess what role, I know you said you went dairy free during that time as well. What role did ghee kind of play in your healing? And also like, I know you were connecting to food and also heritage. How did that kind of come about and how did that play out?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah, so I started making ghee around this time in my Chicago kitchen um because I wanted a great cooking fat. I was cooking all the time. I yeah, I mean, I would say like 98% of my food on a given week was from or 98 to 100% was cooked in my kitchen. Um, and I was also kind of teaching myself to cook at that time. And um I started making ghee because I started to notice that the olive oil that I was using was starting to smell funky when I would heat it to high temperatures. So I just know, and most people are familiar with this, right? When you're using olive oil and all of a sudden there's this kind of almost like crayon y smell. Um, and I wasn't eating butter at the time because I wasn't eating dairy. I knew enough at that point to know that highly processed seed oils were not my friend. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna just start making some ghee. My mom has been making ghee my entire life. She's from India. Um, so ghee has been, you know, a part of my diet, a part of my kitchen for my whole life, but I had never made it myself. And so I started just making it on my own in my kitchen. And I would just use that as my all-purpose cooking fat. I would use it for almost everything. I would still use olive oil for salad dressings and things like that. But the beauty of ghee is that its smoke point is so high. So because you're removing the milk solids from it, you can cook up to much higher temperatures. So, like four 485 degrees is the point of ghee. And it doesn't burn smoke or oxidize. Um, whereas butter, it oxidizes around 325 degrees. Everyone knows what it what it's like to burn butter. Um, and olive oil taps out around 375. So ghee kind of became um a safe food for me because I knew that I could withstand the heat. And when cooking fats or oils oxidize in your body, that's like a health uh, I don't want to say it's a health disaster, but it's not good um to be eating oxidized oils because they introduce free radicals, which lead to inflammation. So I as I became aware of this, I started making more ghee. It was also just great to kind of slow down. It takes several hours to make a batch of ghee. So I was kind of um in the same way that I think activities like gardening can be a little bit therapeutic. I felt like making ghee was therapeutic. I didn't realize at the time how essential fat and cholesterol was for hormone production. Cholesterol from healthy fats, I think cholesterol has gotten a bad rep in in recent years, but cholesterol from healthy fats is actually like the raw material for making estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. Um, so the body really needs a steady supply of high-quality fats in order to produce and regulate hormones properly. So I started making ghee before I even really knew that. I just, you know, this is a food that brings me comfort. It reminds me of home, it allows me to slow down, and I know that it's good for me. I know it's high in omega-3s, also very high in something called butyrate, which helps protect the gut lining. So we hear a lot about ghee gut. Um, and butyrate is an ingredient that is found naturally in butter and more so in grass-fed butter, but you get a higher concentration of it in ghee because ghee is kind of that distilled form.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

All right, guys, quick interruption. Because if you're like me, you're curious about trying Empress of Ghee. Surya was kind enough to share a 15% off discount code for my Eat with Dominique community using code EAT with Dominique all lowercase. Just check the link in the show notes. Okay, now back to the show. I did not know like anything that you just said, so that was really helpful about like the gut lining and the healing of it. And even I didn't know about the oxidizing and the impact of that on the body. Um, is I guess are there any other things you can share with us about like how how those fats kind of help women, how I guess maybe the amounts they should have or how should they should think about incorporating it in their different meals?

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, I mean, I think a huge uh part of it as well is incorporating healthy fats into every meal, also for blood sugar balance. So a lot of women these days unfortunately deal with PCOS, um polycystic ovarian syndrome. Um, and that is very closely tied to stable blood sugar. And so when you pair healthy fats with your food, especially if you're pairing it with carbs or sugar, things that are going to naturally spike your blood sugar, um, that is going to lessen the spike. Um, so it's all about insulin resistance. Um, and uh yeah, so that's just another thing I would I would say about healthy fats. Not only are they just imperative for hormone production and regulation in general, um, but think about it when you're eating like a cookie, for instance, right? Think about, okay, is there healthy fat in this cookie? I always make my cookies with ghee because I know it has those healthy fats. Um or if you're eating um even like a piece of toast, right? Like this is why avocado toast is good because you have a healthy fat that you're pairing with that carb. So I think there's a lot of like demonization around um like carbs and sugar, whatever. Like there's so much noise on the internet. And I kind of like to think about food as there's no like bad or good. I I kind of like to to take away like the moralizing impulse, um, but instead think about it from the perspective of okay, how can I make this as nourishing for my body as I can, knowing whatever I know about how my body is working.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

No, that's really great advice. I I'm excited. I'm gonna have to try making ghee with cookies. I've never done that before. That's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah, I always um make baked goods with ghee. We have a banana bread recipe that's really good with ghee. And I make these like miso cashew cookies with ghee. And it again, it's great because of the high smoke point. Like, I it it's hard with um other oils and fats if you're cooking above like 375, you know, it's like you don't really know what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

So yeah, no, that's true. Um, and I know like even after you, you know, cut the gluten and then dust realized wheat, you still were having this feeling like you weren't fully 100% there. Um, I guess what made you realize that something deeper might be going on?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Yeah. So this was like two years after I made all those shifts, and I was doing pretty good, I will say. Like I I think by all standards, like I had healed myself for the most part. Um I'm just a bit, I'm I would say I am maybe abnormally attuned to my health, and I care a lot about my health for a number of reasons, but mostly having to do with my ability to like be there and be president for the people in my life. And so um I ended up when I moved back to Montana, I ended up seeing a um holistic, like naturopathic doctor. And I I I had told her that I had some digestion problems. I I felt like my sort of last like holdover from where I was at before was that sometimes I would I would get bloated and I felt like my digestion wasn't great. And I never understood why. It was never clear to me what I had eaten to provoke an upset stomach. And so I was like, well, maybe it has to do with stress. I'm not sure. And I would still break out too a little bit from time to time, which I uh very much was interpreting as a symptom of like an in some kind of internal thing. Um, and so I saw this naturopath. And one of the first things she recommended, um, her name's Kaylee Rosen. She's awesome. She operates out of Bozeman, um, was this, I think she calls it an NDE. It's a naturopathic dietary evaluation. And it's a very simple blood test, but it essentially shows you what your food intolerance is. And this is a food intolerance that you just have, like for life, essentially. Um, and I wouldn't be able to tell you the science of how it works, even though she explained it to me once, but a food intolerance that you have for life. Um, it's different from a food allergy. However, if you can heal your gut. So if you're aware of this food intolerance, you can begin to heal your gut by not eating those foods. The thing is, most times people don't know that those foods are damaging the gut. So they're eating them over and over and over again, sometimes multiple times a day. And it kind of sets the gut back in its ability to heal itself.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

And so the idea isn't, okay, you're not allowed to eat these foods ever again. You know, you have to treat it as an allergy for the rest of your life. The idea is, okay, you didn't know that these foods were damaging your gut. So your gut is damaged. Now let's remove those foods, heal the gut, so that in, you know, a year, two years, whatever, for the rest of your life, you can consume those foods. Um, you know, maybe eat some digestive enzymes or something with it, uh, knowing that your gut is now strong and robust enough to handle those foods. Um she did that test with me. My food intolerance came back and it was potato. Which was super random. And I eat potatoes a lot. I love potato. And at first I was, I was dubious, honestly. I'm not gonna lie. Like I was not sure if I believed that I was intolerant to potato because such a basic food that I've eaten for my whole life, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but I decided to kind of momentarily, you know, put away my doubt and trust in the process. And so what I did was a test where I just I eliminated potato for um a month and I was hardcore on eliminating potato. There are a lot of potato-derived ingredients and things, especially in gluten-free stuff like potato starch, sometimes qua gum and xanthem gum. Um, and so I had to avoid a lot of gluten-free stuff. I was cooking a lot at home. Um, definitely no French fries. And after that month, I just reintroduced potato into my diet for a day to see how my body reacted. And I was so shocked at the digestive troubles that ensued when I reintroduced potato. And and then subsequently, I just have avoided potato for this was probably in September, October of 2025. So not even a whole year. Um, and subsequently, my gut health has just improved. I mean, it's like night and day, really. It was never terrible to begin with, like it was definitely manageable. Um, but I did not know that I could feel as good as I do about my digestive system as I do now, having illuminated um potato. And it's different for everyone. Like I have a friend who did the same test, and for her, it's soy, right? So it's it's it just varies. Um, but I think having that knowledge really, really helped. And that that was the sort of thing where I was like, okay, I've done enough on my own. I've healed myself mostly on my own. Now I'm gonna go to a doctor and and see um kind of how I can put the cherry on top or get myself to that next level.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah.

unknown 24:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

And something I find really interesting and I'm impressed by is like, I feel like you had a lot of discipline in like, okay, I'm gonna test this thing like with the gluten or with the potato elimination and all those things. Like, what for you? And I know you said you were always kind of into health and that kind of thing, but was there a particular moment when you were like, okay, I'm gonna focus on testing and not guessing anymore?

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, I mean, hmm, a particular moment when I I think I had felt like I had taken myself as far as I could on my own. You know, I was like, I've done everything that I can do because I'm disciplined. Right. Like I know a lot of people who don't respond well to gluten, but they eat it anyway. And I'm like, okay, well, if you have, if you're having symptoms, that might be why, right? You don't really know unless unless you take it out. Um but for me, I knew that wasn't it. I was like, I know that I'm I'm very uh kind of careful about what I eat and my the ingredients that I use and where they're sourced from. And um, so I felt like I had taken myself as far as I could go on my own. And I trusted myself enough to know that. I was like, I know that I've done the best that I can for myself and I feel pretty good. But, you know, if I'm able to take this test, and the test I think was it was like a hundred dollars. So it wasn't um prohibitively expensive. I recommend everyone do it because it's just it's really changed my health in a way that I was not even expecting.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yeah. Was there, were you like when you were a kid, were you into like health in this way? Did you know, like you said, like you paid attention to ingredients and stuff like that? Or is this kind of like a college or like a post-college type thing?

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah, I mean, I would say I was into health kind of superficially up until my mid-20s. It was really in my mid-20s, like 24, 25 years old, when I started to make an attempt to actually understand what being healthy even meant. And that's an evolving process. Um, I was always interested in health in a kind of generic and superficial way. I was always active. I played soccer growing up. I grew up in Austin, Texas. So yeah, I was I was always into uh health kind of superficially. I mean, Austin is a pretty, I would say, health-minded place, much more so now than it was like in the early 2000s when I was growing up. But um, yeah, I mean, my mom cooked most most of our food at home. Um, we didn't eat out a lot. Um, my mom was never, you know, restrictive about what we could or could not eat. Um, but I think I was just I was attracted to the idea of being healthy. And I think for a lot of young women that that goes hand in hand with with beauty, right? It's like health in a lot of ways is beauty. If you're healthy, you're beautiful. If you, you know, eat good food, you move your body, you get sunlight, like all those things are are health. They're like good for your body, and they also tend to make you beautiful. So I think for me, I was like just interested in um all those things that young girls tend to be interested in. But I didn't understand um what any of it meant. And as you know, there's a lot of not sure what the term is for like health food, but essentially greenwashing, right? Where um companies make their products appear to be a lot more healthy than they are. And I definitely I I fell for that in my younger years because I didn't realize I think that that was legal. I just thought if if a company made a claim, it had to be true, because if it wasn't true, it was illegal. Now I know it's a little bit more complicated than that. But the whole marketing and branding side of health food products, I did not, I did not really understand. And so it wasn't until I think probably in 2020, 2021, that's when I started actually reading ingredient labels. That was a huge thing for me. I I had not, I did not know how to read an ingredient label before that. Um, and then somewhere between like 2021 and 2022, that's when I really started to kind of take responsibility for my own health.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yeah.

unknown 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I started reading labels like two years ago, and like once you start, like you can't go back to not reading them anymore.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

No, totally. And most people don't. A lot of people don't read labels or they think it's crazy to read labels. Like I had a friend when I was in grad school who's like, I I, you know, it's crazy that you read ingredient labels, like that is unhealthy, or whatever. And I was like, I don't know how with everything that's happened, with the role that the pharmaceutical industry has played in our country, with the way that big food has contributed to poor health of so many Americans, I'm like, I don't know why you would just blindly trust a corporation to have your back when it comes to your health. And the only way you can really, you know, know what you're putting in your body is to read an ingredient label, you know?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah, that's true. Um, and I guess at the time, so just to go back to potatoes, because I feel like I would have trouble cutting potatoes out. Well, I know you said you used to eat them like regularly. What was that like for you to have to cut out something that you actually had enjoyed and had thought was something you could tolerate?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah. Well, one thing that my naturopath um told me before was she was like, when she told me this news, she was like, you're not gonna cut it out today. She was like, you need to come to peace with this decision and maybe take it the next month, eating the way that you're eating. Right. Like you're not gonna, you're not gonna die from it. Um, you might have some dietary discomfort, but uh you need to kind of like say goodbye to this food. And I didn't really, I didn't have like a potato goodbye party or anything like that. But um I I did kind of just let myself for the next month, and I think it was around there were a lot of celebrations and family events, so I was like, I'm not gonna worry about it. Um, but then when I did cut it out, I mean, I don't know. I will say I am one of my strengths is just being a pretty disciplined person. So I I was able to plan ahead and kind of stick to my plan. Squash was my best friend. I love squash, I've always loved squash, and squash is a great um kind of alternative to potato squash, pumpkin, um, and other vegetables like that. So that's kind of that was my approach. Um, and then once I got going, like once I cut out the potato, I just felt so good. And you know, your taste buds change too. I don't know if you notice this with gluten, or I noticed this when I stopped eating dairy for a few years. It's like you, if you don't eat something for a while, you kind of stop wanting it or craving it. Um, and so that's kind of how I feel about potato. The hardest thing about cutting out potato is that because our food system and supply is the way that it is, there are a lot of additives and thickeners in a lot of foods. Um, and so, and some of those are potato derived. So that that was the hardest thing of being like, okay, I'm eating this um ice cream, maybe, and it has guar gum in it. And sometimes guar gum is derived from potatoes. So I don't, you know, like they're the sort of um small things that no one likes stressing out about. And I don't either. But um, and and once you at this point now I've I've healed my gut to the point where I don't stress about eating something with guargum, you know, once in a week or in a month or whatever, however often it is. Um but for that short period of time, I did have to be to be vigilant. And that basically just meant that I was mostly cooking at home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

I feel like that ends up being like the simplest solution I found is just like if you make most of it at home, it makes it much easier.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Totally. Yeah, 100%. It's like you make foods at home and you you know exactly what you're getting. Um, and you can guarantee that not only is your food nourishing for your body, but it also tastes really good, which I feel like is the perfect balance you don't always get when you go outside for food.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Yeah, very true. Um, and I guess when you were making that ghee in your kitchen, like at what point were you like, okay, this needs to move beyond the kitchen into a brand, into something like we all can enjoy?

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Yeah. So I moved to Montana um from Chicago after I graduated from my MFA program. And I eventually met my now fiance, Morgan, who's an entrepreneur here in Bozeman. He owns Cutaway Knives, which is a high-end chef knife company. And he's just an entrepreneur. He's like a doer to the max. And I introduced him to Ghee. I we started cooking together and I would introduce him to Ghee. And he had never had Ghee before. So I kind of got to see the benefits of Ghee through his eyes again because I had been a little bit desensitized to it. But he was like, wow, Ghee's so amazing! Like this is so cool. And I was like, Yeah, Ghee is really cool. Like I kind of forgot because it had just become an everyday kitchen staple for me. Um and you know, Bozeman has a very vibrant local food scene. Like farmers' markets are a big deal here. Um, the community really rallies around local producers and farmers and ranchers. And um I remember thinking to myself, you know, at some point, this was two summers ago now, um, I was like, you know, I really feel like Bozeman would appreciate a local source of ghee because a lot of the stuff at the grocery stores is not great ghee for a number of reasons. One of them being is that it's um created in such large batches that the milk solids don't fully caramelize. And when they don't fully caramelize, um they're harder to essentially strain out of the ghee. So what happens is the ghee at the grocery store goes rancid more easily because it actually still has that milk in it. And that milk is what inhibits it from being shelf stable. So ghee will actually last, I mean, pure ghee will last on your countertop in your pantry for a year or sometimes even more without going bad. But if there is milk in it, because it has not been properly made, it's a very narrow window of time in which those milk solids actually caramelize. Um and if people kind of play it safe and they strain before the caramelization occurs, then you get the milk solids in the jar that's on your pantry, and then it goes ransom more easily. Anyway, that's a tangent. But I I knew that what I was making was better than most of the stuff at the grocery store. And so I was like, I feel like you know, people would appreciate getting really high-quality, grass-fed, like authentic DC ghee. And I know how to make it and I love making it. And so um Morgan kind of picked up on that and he was totally like gung-ho, let's go. And he called me one night. Um, I think it was a Friday night. There was a farmer's market that the next day, and he was like, Hey, like, what are you up to tonight? And I told him, I was like, I don't know, I'm just hanging out. And he was like, Do you want to make some ghee tonight and um go to the farmer's market tomorrow morning and just kind of see how it goes? And I was like, sure, you know, I don't really have anything to lose. So we we did that. We had no name, no branding. We used his cutaway knives, tablecloth. Um we were just selling it in mason jars and just kind of having a fun time and seeing, seeing what would happen. We're like, maybe we'll do this, we'll make, you know, a few hundred bucks and then we'll go on a fun adventure for a night or something. I don't know. We didn't have a plan. Um, but it it actually went really well. And by 8 a.m., um, we had someone, he was actually another local Montana farmer who came up and wanted to buy our ghee. And the the demand to me was astounding because you couldn't even really tell what we were selling just by walking by our booth. But people were so excited about it. Um, and and that just kept happening. So it was really having local people in the community who are like, oh wow, like we love this, we want to buy this. You know, your ghee tastes better than any other ghee that I've had, any other ghe that I've bought at the grocery store, like keep making it, et cetera, et cetera. Like that's what um made us realize, like, okay, you know, this this could be a business, this could be a brand. Um, and it really just it's it's snowballed from there. I would say like eight months after that, we started doing Indian cooking classes here in Bozeman, um, which has been super fun for me. And it's been a whole other kind of arm of the business is like that culinary aspect of it.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

So yeah, that's amazing. And it's also awesome. I know you talk a lot about like the food and culture. So it's awesome how you're able to integrate the obviously ghee, which is a cultural food, but into the cooking classes and just share knowledge with people.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Yeah, and I mean that's what that's what keeps me going with the ghee business. That's really the thing for me is this intersection of cultural foods. For me, it's ghee and Indian food and health food. And I think there's a real gap in the United States now where people don't realize that actually the foods that their ancestors ate that are culturally important to them and spiritually significant to them sometimes actually can be the key to um being healthy and solving their health problems. And Ghee was that for me. And so I'm really passionate about showing people. I mean, I show people how to cook foods that I learned how to cook from my mom and my aunts that are not your stereotypical Indian food. A lot of times it's very regional, regionally specific food from the west coast of India, which is where my mom's family is from. I tell people this in my cooking classes all the time. I'm like, you know, I I would I love teaching you how to make, you know, these steamed cilantro cakes, right? And if you make them on your own, that's great. But that's not really my main goal here. Like, my main goal is for you to walk away with a sense of inspiration to uncover your own food culture and bring that back into your life in a way that not only benefits your health, but really like feeds your spirit and makes you feel connected to the people who came before you or to your community or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah. Did you, I guess when you first started making ghee in your kitchen, when you were going through those gut struggles, did you ever think you'd be able to share your culture in this way?

SPEAKER_02 40:22

No. I mean, I was I was writing um creative nonfiction essays about Montana and the West. And I still am, I still do that. That's a whole other part of what I do. But um I was never interested, or the thought didn't even cross my mind of being in the food space at all in any kind of professional way. Um I think sometimes that happens, you know, it's like the things that you're closest to you don't realize are special. Uh and so for me, it was just like, oh, you know, I'm just feeding myself. Um, and I wasn't thinking about how that might translate into the future. But that's the fun thing about life, you know, is that you just never know where it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah, yeah, true. Um, and whenever, you know, if you're at the farmer's market or someone buys, you know, ghee, your ghee online, what's like the thing you want them to feel whenever they first taste ghee?

SPEAKER_02 41:20

That's a good question. I want them to feel and taste a sense of like home and warmth. I mean, that's what ghee is, right? It's this incredibly rich and nutty and warm food. Um, and I think people do feel that way. Um, it feels ghee, I think to a lot of people feels familiar to them, um, not only because it comes from butter, and most people have tried butter, um, but also just because of the richness and kind of the the warmth of the food. Um, I want them to feel like they're taking a part of not taking apart, but they're taking part in a food culture that is significant and that means something, right? It's it's not just uh, you know, here's this cracker, I'm gonna eat it, and that's it, that's done. But it's like, okay, no, this ghee is made by hand with care in small batches. And that's the way that, you know, my ancestors have made ghee. And I actually found out recently that um I have distant relatives in India who have a ghee farm and a ghee operation. And Morgan and I got to visit it this last December. Wow. And it was really cool. And one of the things that they do there is they will actually chant and pray over the ghe as they're making it. Um that's how kind of seriously they they take that process. And so I I want people to feel when they're using our ghee, like um, yeah, kind of the the weight of okay, this is a food that was made by hand. Um and I'm gonna use it to make more food that is nourishing my body and bringing me health. And then the other thing I'll say about that is ghee is for people who want to slow down in the kitchen. Ghee is not a fast food, right? You use it as an ingredient to make your your dishes or your meals. And so I want people to kind of take take joy in that, right? Of being able to slow down and um just kind of experiment in the kitchen and see what they can come up with with ghee.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Yeah. That's incredible too. I mean, your family, like that, feels like the fullest of circles to then get to go visit your family. That's you, I mean, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

I know it was crazy. When we we kind of came into contact with a cousin who I haven't seen in many years, and he was like, Oh my gosh, no way! You have a ghee business. And so we we ended up going.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

There and it was just it was really cool. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. Um, and I know you touched a little bit on this earlier, but is there anything else that you would say to that younger version of yourself who is still, you know, going through gut struggles, hadn't quite figured it out yet? Is there anything else that you would say to her?

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I would say you're in the right place. Um, don't stress so much. Um, and just keep searching, keep searching for answers. Um yeah, I think little me actually like had was was doing a pretty good job. Um, even though I feel like I have learned so much. It's just as you know, it's a process.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

And is there anything I guess you would say to be that self or really to anyone who wants who sees your story, like is inspired and is like, wait, maybe I want to, you know, start my own business or something rooted in culture or that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yeah. Okay, I think this might be a little bit of a cliche at this point, but I do think it is a cliche for a reason, which is um do first and perfect later. Um, like I said, when Morgan and I started at the farmer's market, we had no name, we had no website, we had no branding, we literally just had jars of ghee. And that's what gave us the momentum to keep going. We each put in $200 to buy materials, and then we just made ghee from that, and then we reinvested the money that we made back into the ghe business to make more ghee and to sell that. And that's how we built this business. Like we have not put money into this business, it's all been growing organically. And I think the only way that we were able to do that was by not letting perfection be our enemy. I think a lot of people who want to start things want to have everything figured out and planned out. Um, and I think it's um it can be a trap in some ways, um, or it can be a way of actually keeping yourself from starting. Because I think the sooner you can actually do it and get out there and um practice, you'll just be constantly iterating again and again and again and again until you get to the place where you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Yeah, that's great advice. It's time for the rapid fire now. The first question is sweet or savory? Savory. Go to gluten-free, gut-friendly snack.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Okay, this is hard. Other than ghee, I love um sardines and dates.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Do you have a favorite Empress of Ghee flavor? Probably saffron. Favorite unexpected way to use ghee.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

I love putting ghee on popcorn and popping my popcorn with ghee. Um, I love baking my cookies with ghee. And I love it in coffee as well. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Wow, I never I wouldn't have thought I hadn't thought about cooking it with popcorn, like when you're with it, and then the coffee I wouldn't have thought of either. Yeah, it's good. You should try it. Okay, I will. Um, do you have of those things or something else? Do you have a favorite food to put Empress of Ghee on?

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yeah, I love ghee on local seasonal vegetables like summer squash, cauliflower. Um there's nothing better to me than ghee roasted squash, ghee roasted, um, cauliflower, ghee roasted, asparagus, etc. Whatever, whatever is in season, garlic scapes, like it's all so good. And I look forward to spring and summer every year because um there's just nothing better. The ghee, I think, really is such a great vehicle for the flavor of yeah, the vegetables sound delicious.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Um, what is the most underrated ingredient for gut health?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Okay, this one is actually, I was thinking about this one, and this one is something that's been a recent addition to my um diet, but there's a specific strain of bacteria um called L Ruderi. And I've my dad actually turned me on to this, and he and my mom have been making L Ruderi yogurt, and so I've been making this yogurt from with this specific strain, um, and it is incredible for gut health. So if anyone out there is is watching and they're like, how do I take my gut health to the next level? Um, look up L. Ruderi yogurt and um try and make some because it's really good.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Yeah. It seems like your whole all your family is making different, all these different food things.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

I know, I know. I'm I'm blessed to have a lot of inspiration in my life.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Um, and last one, food that instantly feels like home.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

I would say dosa. My mom um used to make dosa for me all the time whenever we go home, especially from college and post-college. And so dosa is a it's a fermented Indian crepe. It's savory. Um, you eat it with chutney. A lot of people eat it with potatoes. I don't eat it with potatoes. Um, but yeah, I would say dosa is my food that feels like home. And we're actually bringing it this summer to the Bozeman Farmers Market. So we'll be making it and serving it to people, which we're really excited about.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Wow, that's amazing. Um, okay, so to close, my I always like to ask, you know, growing up, my dad always said, you know, whether it's about food or people or life, that things should be good to you, good for you, and good with you. When it comes to gluten-free, gut-friendly eating, what does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Yeah, so to me, I I think about harmony amongst my mind, my body, and my soul. And when it comes to gut-friendly eating and gluten-free, what I like to think about is um actually information. So, what information is this food giving my body? Because that's essentially what food is, right? It's information to ourselves and it tells ourselves what to do. Um, so I think I big picture, I think about harmony when it comes to food itself. I think about okay, what kind of information am I giving to my body by eating certain foods? And how does that contribute to my overall sense of harmony and ease?

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share? No, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for having me on Eat with Dominique. Yeah, thank you so much for being here and for sharing everything about Empress of Ghee. Um, for anyone who wants to try this amazing lactose-free, gluten-free ghee, you can go to empressofgy.com and follow them on Instagram at EmpressofGee. Thank you so much for tuning in to Eat with Dominique. I loved talking with Suria Milner about Empress of Ghee. If you want to try the Ghee for yourself, she generously shared a 15% off code exclusively for the Eat with Dominique community using code EATWithDominique, all lowercase. The link and the discount code are in the show notes. As always, let me know what you think when you try it. If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. And if you have a gluten-free, allergy-friendly, or gut-sensitive friend who needs better options, send this episode their way. We'd love to have them. This podcast is all about actionable tips, trustworthy brands, and real strategies to make gluten free, gut friendly living easier, tastier, and pain free. So remember, whether it's life or food, make sure it's always good to you, good for you, and good with you. I'll see you soon.