She's Not Done

Mom Guilt: Working Moms vs Stay-At-Home Moms

• Kouelee & Andrea • Season 1 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 45:07

In this episode of She’s Not Done, Andrea and Kouelee dive into the reality of modern motherhood, partnership, and the constant mental load that comes with trying to “do it all.” From working moms to stay-at-home moms, they unpack the invisible expectations, the guilt that follows every choice, and the impossible standard of being everything to everyone.

They talk openly about intimacy in long-term relationships, the struggle of balancing career and parenting, and the emotional weight of never feeling fully “caught up” at home or work. The conversation moves between personal stories and honest reflections on divorce, marriage, identity, and what it really means to be present.

At the heart of it all is one message: no matter what path you choose—working, staying home, or somewhere in between—you’re still not done figuring it out, evolving, and redefining what success and motherhood look like for you.




0:00 – 1:18 – Exhaustion, intimacy, and introduction to motherhood realities + hosts
1:18 – 4:14 – Mom guilt: real vs taught + expectations vs reality of motherhood
4:14 – 8:50 – Working mom vs stay-at-home mom + mental load and identity
8:50 – 12:32 – Parenting styles, judgment, and “I could never do that” comparisons
12:32 – 18:23 – Identity pressure, sacrifice, and the reality of doing everything imperfectly
18:23 – 24:20 – Mental overload, social media comparison, and constant judgment
24:20 – 30:11 – Career gaps, missed opportunities, and long-term trade-offs
30:11 – 38:20 – “She’s Not Done” mindset + emotional load in relationships and divorce dynamics
38:20 – end – Redefining guilt, presence, family life, and what quality time really means

Thank you for being here! And remember, you are NOT alone and you are Not done.

xxx Andrea & Kouelee


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SPEAKER_01

You've done extra hours at work, you've dropped the kids at daycare, he's picked them up, you've come home, you're late, he's chessed out with the kids, and then you've said yes to multiple things, now you're gonna say no to those intimate moments with your with your partner. Because who has the fucking time or the energy or the emotional um welcome back to she's not done, guys.

SPEAKER_00

I'm your host, Coley.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm your host, Andrea. I'm still married, I'm still divorced.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I'm really happy to be back today with this conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think a lot of people can relate as well, you know. There's so many working mums, so many single mums, so many stay-at-home mums, and I think the main thing is that we're all trying to do a good job in whichever however that looks. But you have always, since I've known you, worked incredibly long hours dedicated to your job and your career, and now you have two little. Yes, and you haven't slowed down at all, from my point of view.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So how I guess how do you get it all done in one day?

SPEAKER_00

I don't. I think that it looks like I do to so many people, but and I think that that's one of the issues that we have, and mom guilt in my eyes is taught and not true. So when I say mom guilt, is it true or is it taught? Is it true because we love our children so much and we truly want to be with them, or is mom guilt taught as in society is making us be superheroes, meaning financially contribute, be a mom, raise your kids, work, and maintain relationships, maintain friendships, get to the gym.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00

So is it really mom guilt because we have other people watching?

SPEAKER_01

That was actually one of my questions. Is the guilt from your own expectations or is it from social expectations?

SPEAKER_00

Quite frankly, I don't know if there's a true answer to that. Because when I really think deep down, obviously I love my kids more than anything. I would wish nothing more than to be with them all day without being with them all day, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But at the same time, I don't know if am I doing this because other moms are working? Am I doing this because I see other moms doing it all? Or is it really because that's who I am? I don't know. I really don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I guess it's all a journey, right? So you have to, as you go along, you figure it out. I mean, I'm 10 years ahead of you in yours and parenting, and our children are exactly 10 years apart. And I feel like I'm in a place now where I've figured out a few, not all of it, obviously. We're constantly thinking of something else that needs to be done. Where have I got to be? What have I got to do? What have I got to pick up? Who's going where? And I think, you know, I stayed at home with my kids. Yeah. I worked, I stayed at home, and now I'm working again. So I can I can compare a little bit. I think when it comes to expectations, your expectations or social, I think your work ethic has always been that way. And I think that I see you battle with wanting to be home more now.

SPEAKER_00

One of the conditions was I gotta be out at a certain time. I don't want anybody else raising my kids after school, or I don't want to hire anybody. My parents are overseas, you know. And so for me, I don't just have the help right then and there, which you know, it's a gift when you do have it. And so when I come home, it's just me, and I want it to be just me. I'm not gonna hire just someone for one to two hours before they go to bed.

SPEAKER_01

Plus, you want to put your kids to bed, right? Like and and everyone's different. Everyone's different. I personally stayed at home. That was something at the time me and my ex-husband, when we met, that was the our goals. When we got married, that was our goals. And when I had children, that was our goals because I had been raised in a house, nobody was ever home.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I we would let ourselves in, we would figure out our food, we were latchkey kids, is what we called it. And I think his upbringing was similar. His mum and dad are together, but I I his dad was always working, and I think his mom worked as well part-time. So for us, it was that was what we wanted because we hadn't had it. And I always wonder on this, and you I always wonder if my kids will grow up and be like, oh, my mom was my mom was home all the time. I I want that for my kids, or maybe they'll go the opposite way.

SPEAKER_00

It's funny you say that because just this morning I was talking to my mom about that. We're talking about the topic, and and I said that one of the reasons that I am the way that I am, that I because she asked me, would you want to stay home with the kids? And I said, I don't think I could, you know, and we've had this conversation before, I'm not made that way. And I think that because she wasn't like that, I think that is the reason I am who I am today, is because of that.

SPEAKER_01

So, what does that look like? It just doesn't come natural to you.

SPEAKER_00

I have to work. You in a sense, I didn't have a choice because when I made the choice to come to the United States, I didn't have anyone or anything here. So I had no choice but to work. But it was never okay, when we have kids, I'll stay home.

SPEAKER_01

That was never a conversation you had at the beginning of your marriage. No, we had that conversation, and it was stay at home. And you know, I've also had conversations with people. I stayed at home, and my guilt was from not bringing a paycheck in, yeah, like a dollar amount. And I think I don't know where that guilt came from. Was it because of my ex-husband making me feel a certain way? Was it my that just the way I felt about myself? There's so many things that I just don't have answers to. But I feel like being home with them, we've talked about this before, for me was a gift. And I I wouldn't change it for the world. And it's not for everybody. It is when you're teammates, it's hard to explain. They're a little older now, 12 and 15, and and those problems. Now it's now I just have to be in multiple places all the time and pick up and drop off. But when they were younger, when you're in it, it is hard. You get touched out, you're exhausted, and then your husband comes home and he wants to talk about his day. And you're you're there for everybody. You're there for your kids, you're taking care of the house, you're taking care of multiple things, and then your partner comes home, your husband, your wife, whoever comes home, and then they want to talk about their day and share that with you. And, you know, that was that was actually another one of my questions. Like you feel like for me as a stay-at-home mom, I felt like I was keeping everyone happy, but then there was no clocking off. There was no time out, there was no, oh, okay, this is my time now. You know, when when my ex-husband got in the car at six in the morning and he was gone all day, yes, he's working, but even the drive to work, even the drive back from work. So as a stay-at-home mom, I felt like I didn't. I know we're talking about guilt, but I feel like this also touches on that. Like I felt when you're in it and they're so small, everybody needs everything. And then your partner comes home and they need to talk, they want to talk about the day, you want to be attentive, right? But then at the end of the day, there's no time left for you. There's no clocking in, clocking out when you're a when you're a full-time mom, right? So even the drive to work and the drive back from work, it's like you get to listen to your music and not, you know, Winnie the Pooh. You get to maybe make a full time.

SPEAKER_00

Well, sometimes I do continue listening to their tunes.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Let me tell you, there's been times when they were little, I'd get in the car and drive somewhere, and I was so deep in thought that in the background Winnie the Pooh was playing.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I enjoy it. I actually, Golden is one of my favorite songs now. Can I jam to that on my way to work? Why not?

SPEAKER_01

Why not? It's soothing, it makes you think about less things. Yeah. But definitely the the drive there, the drive back, the the moments that you get to just kind of regroup. When you're a stay-at-home mum, you don't get that.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, and then people say, Well, you sleep when they sleep, you do this when that it's just non-stop. I never slept. I never slept when they slept.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I did a couple of times, but it's just it's not feasible. No. You you got shit to do. Yeah. You're running a house. I mean, it's it's different when they start maybe kindergarten, you know, but or if you decide to sign them up in preschool.

SPEAKER_01

Let me tell you. I would drop her at nine o'clock in the morning, get home, and by the time I'd finished doing whatever I needed to do, it was 11 o'clock and you've got to pick them up again. Yeah. And and I think it's great. Listen, again, I I wouldn't change being a stay-at-home mum for anything. I got so much out of it. I know they've got so much out of it. I don't think that a stay-at-home mum's children growing up are going to be any more or less successful than a working mum. I think it's how they're loved and how you teach them to handle problems and emotions and self, not I don't want to say self-regulate, but like problem solve. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I agree.

SPEAKER_01

So I I guess what I'm saying is I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to do it. It's what I think our expectations is maybe what drives us to take the path that we take.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Or what we're used to, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So I but uh then I stayed home because I didn't have that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I always wanted to give that to my kids. Yeah. So did he.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that's amazing. But like you said, I think that not everyone can do that. Not everyone can, number one, afford to do that. Right. Not everyone wants to do that, or not everyone, even if they want and can, I mean, even if they want and can afford it, can do it. Like I know for a fact, I couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I I think that, and I don't go to work because I don't want to be with my kids. I go to work because I need to feel sane and I need to feel to have a different identity. Like my sister, for instance, she has four kids, she is content and an excellent mom. Yeah. Is at home. I always I could never do that. I could never do that. One of the questions that I had is do you ever look at another mom and say, Oh, I could never have her life. I could never do that. If I look at you, I could never do that. I could never do that. Whether it's raising my kids and staying with them at home, or even to the point where you took them everywhere.

SPEAKER_01

I did.

SPEAKER_00

You took them everywhere.

SPEAKER_01

Let me tell you, those kids have been to doctors, dentists, gyno, also the all the library things that I like, they've been everywhere.

SPEAKER_00

Everywhere. I am. You went hiking with them, traveling with them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

My brain, I can't. Yeah. I I just cannot. I it's it's highly stressful.

SPEAKER_01

So I feel like it's definitely our personal journey because I couldn't do what you do. I couldn't. I couldn't deal with all those people all day long and have to. I just couldn't. I couldn't. I love so now Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I remember when you came to work with me for a bit. Yeah. And to begin with, me, I'm such a loner, you know, and I just I work. I just I get to work and I work. I remember because you had been a stay-at-home mom, you needed that adult conversation, and you just wanted to chat all the time. All the time. I remember to this day. But now and after the fact, I always think about that. And I always say, I remember those times and how it was, and it makes sense. Because when I was working from home, which by the way was probably one of the hardest things I've had to do. Luckily, my team got moved to work from home during COVID. Extremely thankful for that because I got to stay with my firstborn longer than I thought I was going to. I was not going back to work physically after three months. And so for me, it was a gift. You know, a lot of people could think the other way, but it was a gift. And I was on an important call. And I don't know how to explain it, but when you're a working mom and you have the work ethic that I have, you want to maintain that reputation. Anything other than that, that's how I felt at the time, would make me look weak. And she started throwing the biggest tantrum while I'm on this call. And when I am telling you, I put my my hand over her mouth because in my head it was that identity that I've had of other people perceiving me differently. And that was till this day. And obviously not hard or anything, but still It was just a reaction. A horrible reaction that till this day, what is wrong with me for me to even do that to my own child.

SPEAKER_01

I think in that moment your work, I you know, it's just panic. It was you don't know how to handle every situation. That's a thing. You're given a child and you're oh go okay, goodbye.

SPEAKER_00

And probably because if I had just picked her up and shown her on the screen, they would have been like, oh my god, she's so cute. And I think I just might I I didn't want to bring that reality of people perceiving me other than your worker.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Not that I didn't want the mom identity because you know how I was with Adriana, she was my shadow, she was still is, you know, sh everything, my safe place. I was she was just everything. But when I was at work, even though it was at home, I was at work.

SPEAKER_01

It's that's that's and that's that's the expectations of the world.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, I've I've I've set the bar way too high, I think.

SPEAKER_01

I wing everything, including being a stay-at-home mom. Like I think that's why it worked for me as well. Kids are unpredictable, right? Like in that moment, Lulu decided that was the moment she was gonna throw a fit. Right? Kids are unpredictable all the time. You're being you're dedicated and scheduled, and this is gonna happen at this time, and this is gonna happen. Even down to Sophia's nap now, it's like 12 o'clock is her nap time, and she'll be awake by two. And holy shit, it actually does work for you, and that's amazing. But as a stay-at-home mum, I would just pivot all the time. Whatever happened, so I can do that. So if it's a day where they're had enough of the house and they don't want to colour and they don't want to draw, we're going on a hike. I'll throw one on my back, the other one, you know, three dogs and two kids. But that to me was that was my strength. I'm not a college person. I'm not going to sit in an office nine to five. But I am perfectly emotionally and physically capable of raising my kids and doing anything last minute and throwing them running into the woods, teaching them about nature and kindness and compassion. And, you know, one needs to sleep okay. Let's change the day. I feel like even to this day, now I work. Listen, there's been times, oh my gosh, we all had pneumonia. We were really sick. I was doing three different jobs, still taking them to school, still picking them up from school, still being present when at home, but I was run ragged and I ended up with the flu that then turned into pneumonia. And then both my kids got pneumonia and I had started to recover, and I had to take a client to see a house. And Arya had pneumonia, and I put her in the car from the doctors, and I said, Mama's just gotta make a stop. And she was in the car while I ran in and showed the property to this person. Like I feel guilty about that. But at the same, there is no other option.

SPEAKER_00

And even if there was she's your child, then you want her close to you.

SPEAKER_01

And she wants mom.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They want mum when they're not sick, so when they are sick, forget it. But I'm like, oh mummy will be 10 minutes. Those are the things that I feel guilty about. However, you know, when I get to take them on holiday or I fix the driveway, or I get to, you know, do these things with them or take them to see a show, that's the quality of life I want for them. So yeah, if she had pneumonia sitting in the car and I'm showing a house. Yeah. Which they didn't buy, by the way.

SPEAKER_00

And I think God's that in itself, whether you're a stable mom, a working mom, no matter what, you're gonna get judged for it.

unknown

Correct.

SPEAKER_00

No matter what someone will say, How could you do that? How could you do that? How could I put the hand in front of my kid's mouth?

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes our reactions are are just that. Yeah. A reaction.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that for me too, it's I don't feel guilty because I work. I feel guilty because nothing gets done a hundred percent. And so what I mean by that is I go to work, the house is unattended, nothing in the house gets done while I'm at work. Right. I come from work, my kids are here, so I have limited time to what do I do? Do I clean the house that's you know bothering me? Do I play with them? Do I do homework? Do I do laundry? And so I try to tackle a little bit each day and do a little bit every day. And my husband comes home and does the same, but nothing ever feels completely done.

SPEAKER_01

Nothing ever feels complete.

SPEAKER_00

And so I think that's that's the guilt for me is that because nothing is completely done, I can't be present with my kids.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and it doesn't help with the social media and everything, these wonderfully perfect homes.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that's amazing, but it's not perfect home, perfect moms.

SPEAKER_01

It's just not realistic for everybody, right? No. Like I'm I'm always in you said what what would I look at in a in another mom and be like, I can't do that? Sports mums, dance moms. Like that, my one of Emily's best friends is in dance, and she's phenomenal. And her mom works full-time, is married, and sometimes the two of them are gone from five in the morning for the for for the whole weekend, non-stop back-to-back dancing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Like I think I could just because of who I am.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I couldn't. Yeah. I couldn't be in those surroundings. And she does it because her daughter loves it and she's dedicated.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that's phenomenal. But I I'll admit that's just not something I can do. Even though even the the hockey mums that go all weekend and travel and and do these things. And I think it's amazing and wonderful that they do these things. I was just always silently happy that my kids didn't love cheerleading or or you see, I feel the complete opposite.

SPEAKER_00

No. So and and maybe that is part of, you know. Because I didn't stay home with my kids and I didn't get to see them grow up the way that you did.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I want to be present doing all those things with them. We are all exhausted trying to do our best. Yeah. And also not to be judged. I'm not doing this for you. Right. I'm not doing this for my neighbor. I'm not raising my kids the way that I am because of you, because of what society expects. I'm raising it because that's what I believe in.

SPEAKER_01

Those are your de beliefs. And that's how you work.

SPEAKER_00

These are my kids. Yeah. They came out of me. So don't judge me for parenting the way that I do, for wanting to work or not wanting to work. I'm at a point in my life now where the way that you wanted to stay home now, I'm more like, I want to experience my kids. I want to be home when they're home. You know, obviously now they're in school, but it that's the period that I'm in in my life.

SPEAKER_01

I think you're doing phenomenal. You've you've moved up in your career to get to the point where you can demand, right? And that's the word I'm gonna use. Yeah. As we should, you can demand that. These are my requirements to be in this position. And you're able to be home every day with them, every night, and and I think that's fantastic. And you get your weekends with them, and and it works for you. I yeah, I I just I think no matter what, as a stay-at-home mum, I got judged. And I've heard women do it. I've heard, I've heard women do it. I've had conversations with it was in the older generation, right? But they they would say things like, Oh, look at her going to work all day with her her child needs her at home. Her child's anxious, right? Her child has anxiety and she's off to work all day, you know. And then I would stay home, and it's you know, she's not she's not contributing financially to the house.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, or you're you're not doing anything with your life.

SPEAKER_01

What do you which way do you want it? Which way do you want it? So no matter what you choose, no matter what you do, there's always going to be someone that's unhappy with you. So you need to do what suits your family. Some dads stay home, some mums stay home. Sometimes neither stay home and they get a nanny.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing too. Good. You do whatever works for your family and your dynamic. And like you said, those are your kids. You you had them, you birthed them, or you adopted them, or you however you come into being a parent, you make those decisions. And nobody, I don't think anybody purposely wakes up and says, you know what, I'm gonna do a really shit job today. You know what? I'm gonna I I I can't wait to fuck this up today.

SPEAKER_00

Not only that, but also no one is going to work as a working mom not thinking about their kids.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I step them up. I do everything that I do in the morning so that the guilt is less. So that I don't sit at work and oh my god, did I forget her lunch? Oh my god, did I forget her?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, did she do that project? I noticed downstairs you'd put pictures up. These are the things you say you people don't talk about, right? You come home, you get them home, you're doing dinner, you're trying to clean up, you're trying to disconnect your brain from work, and then you pull out the backpack and it's like, oh, you owe you you've got to put all the things that are important to you in a brown bag for show and tell tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00

You're like, Yes, 100%. But with that said, I think that motherhood is designed for us women to feel like we're not enough. There's never a point where I'm like, whether I'm working, not working, working from that I'm good enough.

SPEAKER_01

I think we've built that expectation and we've allowed other people to judge us on that.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's that was my question.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. I think we have built that the guilt real yes or is it taught? I think we have these expectations and we've allowed other people to judge us on those expectations. It's because once people see that there's a little part of you that feels bad about something, sometimes people enhance that. So I think it's a mix. I think it's our expectation.

SPEAKER_00

And you see something that somebody did better in your eyes. It's not because they actually did it better, it's because in your eyes you're like, oh wow, how are they doing that?

SPEAKER_01

How's the house so clean? And their kids, how did they braid their hair like that in the morning? Who I could I could never. I'm not that mom. My kids would sometimes have mishmash outfits on, and I remember my ex would say, Are they going out like that?

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what they put on. I dropped Sophia off at school and I'm like, sorry, crazy hair today. Crazy hair day. Or just that's what she wanted to wear today.

SPEAKER_01

So that's what she's wearing. Yeah, I mean, nothing wrong with that. Yeah. But then, you know, you see the perfectly put together, and I think we need to start letting go of guilt. And I do see that we're starting to talk about it more. Yeah. And people are open up about it more. And there's always gonna be generations of judgy people, judgy generations. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Is that I remember I came it was a birthday party the other day after spring break, and all the moms, oh, what did you do over spring break? Well, I was working and Adriana was with me at work. Yeah. And so that made me feel guilty. Even though I already felt guilty, I felt even more guilty because And Adriana was so happy.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, she got to do a Starbucks run, she got to be in the office, she got to be like she loved. So all she's remembering is the amazing times that her mom took her to work. Yeah, you know, those we it's so this is where I believe it is us, right? Like, I don't know. When I was a stay-at-home mum, I would do, you know, that's how we met. I would do part-time jobs.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I would, because I felt like I needed to financially contribute. Is that my fault? Is that my ex-husband's fault? Is it like I I don't have an answer to that. All I know is that I've let go of that now. When I can work, I work, and when I need to be present for my kids, I'm present for my kids. And do I lose opportunities? I do. The people I work for, I work solid for. But there is probably multiple missed opportunities. Like I've missed that up.

SPEAKER_00

That's a big one. And that's and I'm not saying it's sad, but in a sense it is because men didn't miss any opportunities. No, but we miss a whole lot of opportunities. There's I'm sure if you didn't have children, you would be completely different off.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I so I I look at my num I actually did this all weekend. I looked at my numbers over the last 20 years. So I did it for four, five years, and then I stayed home for nine, ten years when they were little, and now I'm I'm fully active again for the last six years. And I looked at my numbers. And if I had continued and not had that gap, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I would be and forget about the homes. It's money for your for their college if they want to go.

SPEAKER_01

I was talking yesterday in today's like, how am I ever gonna I being able to help them to buy their first home? Right. But I and I know the choices I've made means that my career has gone on hold. And even now, I'm I'm a single mom working full-time, but still maintaining the full-time care of my kids. Yeah. So I know I miss opportunities, I don't miss work, I don't miss who I work for. They all my jobs are done. But I know I miss picking up new clients because I'm not in that place at that moment.

SPEAKER_00

But also it's a positive thing to positive place to be in because you know you could. It's never you couldn't. You couldn't do that. It's I like that you say that you know, you still could. If you wanted to, if you wanted to put your kids on a back burner, which would never happen, you could. Right. And I and If they they're ready to eventually move out, you still can. Yeah, and I feel like this is also what this podcast is about. I feel like the she's not done is about just that. That you're never done, and you could, when you're ready within, you can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_01

I'm building a foundation now for that. Yeah, knowing the older they get, the less they need, right? Eventually everybody's gonna be driving. There's gonna be less times I have to pick up a job. So why I have it, I'm gonna do it. But I'm also building a solid foundation and being present for clients in any way I can because I know that's coming around the corner. Yeah. And I'm not, and I'm not done. I'm not done in my parenting, I'm not done in my career, I'm not done in my in my love life. Yeah, but that's a whole other topic.

SPEAKER_00

But I think that's amazing, you know, and it just makes me like my heart happy because I want to see women like that not being done. I want to see them chasing when they're ready. Right. Not because they have to, when they want to, I want them to feel like, all right, now I'm ready in my life to do that. You know, it's the the mom guilt of I have to lose weight because everybody on social media is after having kids, you know, they're they're bouncing back, but nobody talks about maybe I don't want to right now. Maybe my priority are my kids and or I physically can't, I just can't get out of bed, or I don't I just don't want to. I will when I want to.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine that. Imagine saying no because you just don't want to. That's where I've got to as well. No, no explanation. No, because I can't do that.

SPEAKER_00

That means if if I do that, something else is taking a back seat. Yeah. Whether it's my kids, it's my relationship, when you commit to when you say yes, something else gets a no. 100% when you say no, something else gets a yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I and I'm even this, even us finding time to sit here and talk, it it has to be missing work. Yes. But right, I could be in the office.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I don't, I don't, this is what I want to do. Yeah. So this is where I've got now. Like I'm saying yes to the things I want to do, I'm saying no to the things I don't want to do, and I'm making space for myself and what I need because if if I don't do that, no one else is doing that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And nobody else lives in my house, and nobody else sees the morning to night time that we do. No one lives in your house. Well, one does, but you know what I mean. No, nobody's in our homes seeing what nitty-gritty behind the scenes looks like. So I say no now. No, no, thank you. And yes, please. Yeah. So the things that make me happy. And if you want to quit your job and stay home with your kids, and you can do it. Yeah. And if you want to, if you're a stay-at-home mom and you've decided I can't take this anymore, go do something that makes you happy, right? Like you don't have to, just because you made that choice, doesn't mean you're stuck there. And I think that's a huge part of again a different topic. But I got divorced. I'm not gonna sit and be unhappy and live that way forever. And I see people do it.

SPEAKER_00

And it's like or be in a marriage and be unhappy.

SPEAKER_01

100%.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And continue to be unhappy and stay there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Do you picture yourself with 20 years? Do you want that?

SPEAKER_00

And I'm not saying give up, but if you've given it everything, if that's the thing, as long as you have given everything, and you know. No, you have given everything. And that's why when I said that Juan and I raised divorce, and then it took us, I think, three years to really find back to one another, and we're still not there. We're still a work in progress. Right. But the moment that we decided to get a divorce is when I realized I didn't give it. Yeah, you hadn't given it all. Right. I thought I did, but I truly did not.

SPEAKER_01

And but thank God that you stopped and had and realized that or admitted that because not everybody does, right? If they just in that haste decision. And listen, I don't know. I feel like now we're going on to another topic of divorce. But I feel like when you're a working mom or a stay-at-home mom and you have a partner, how do you it's making all those things work? And like you said, when you say yes to one thing, stomach else is on the back burner, right? So you've done extra hours at work, you've dropped the kids at daycare, he's picked them up, you've come home, you're late, he's stressed out with the kids, and then you've said yes to multiple things. Now you're gonna say no to those intimate moments with your with your partner. Because who has the fucking time or the energy or the emotional one has the time and one has the time has the time.

SPEAKER_00

Of course. No, what I'm saying is he has the time, you know, but that doesn't mean that I do. He doesn't, and that's the conversations that we have, you know, that he doesn't go through what I go through. He is at work, and I'm not saying work is not stressful, work is extremely stressful, you know. When, like you were saying, a deal falls apart, you have to try and put it back together. Extremely stressful because he provides for our family, but also I do too, and I think sometimes he forgets that. And I'm not saying that, oh, because he knows I also provide, he should just give up on that deal. No, that's extremely stressful as a as a man. For him, he needs to feel fulfilled that he can provide for his family. God forbid I couldn't work or I didn't want to work, and I understand that, but mentally he doesn't deal with he's not thinking about if he pat Lulu's lunch.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely not, or if they did the the show and tell.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, he doesn't know about any of those events. He knows because I tell him, I shared with him. Like I tell him, oh, today you have your the mystery reader in Adriana's class, you know, make sure you're there on time, you know, or daddy daughter dance. This is a which he's a take time off. Right. But that's mentally that's the load. I have to carry my calendar, their calendar, his calendar. It's yeah, yeah. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, when and and I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00

That's why it's guilty, feels guilty for me because I can't be present.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine you miss something, then you have other guilt. But that's the worst. But imagine if you didn't tell him about the father-daughter dance. This is where I struggle too, coming from a divorce point of view. Once we were divorced, uh uh you still have that expectation of me to run your calendar.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But in a sense, and not to cut you off, if you don't do it, you feel guilty. I assume that you would feel guilty as a mom that you're not pushing for that relationship.

SPEAKER_01

And this is where the work comes in individually. It is not my job to fix your relationship with your children. Or maintain it. But it's hard. It's so hard because you have to take a step back and say, I can't control that. I no longer, especially when you've been channeled into that direction of you take care of everything, right? Doctors, dentists, bills, everything within the house. And now part of that entity is moved out. Do you continue to take that role? But hold on a second. I remember in an argument him saying, You're not my wife anymore. And I was like, Oh my god, he's right.

SPEAKER_00

He's right. I'm not your wife anymore.

SPEAKER_01

And let me tell you, thank you. Because after that moment, I was like, Yeah, switch went off. He's right. I'm not his wife. Then I still get from him after that expectations of why didn't you tell me? And I was like, I am not your wife anymore. Even though it was difficult. And and I've had specialists and therapists, and I've done the work, and they're like, This is this is not your his relationship with his children, is is not your responsibility.

SPEAKER_00

But I think you maybe felt guilty because of you both of your decisions to give your kids one home. Yeah. Because you didn't have that. So you continued to try and maybe take on that role because that's what you had in your head. This is how you wanted to raise your kids. Not that you wanted him in that sense. No, you wanted that for your kids to still have both the security together and the picture, the Disney picture, right?

SPEAKER_01

Mom, dad, and kids, or mom and mom and kids, and dad and dad and kids, you know, like the picture, whatever you picture with your family, you never picture the Disney picture with mom and kids. Yeah. You just don't. So the the guilt there.

SPEAKER_00

99% of the time, either way, it's pictures of dad and kids because they don't take pictures.

SPEAKER_01

You know how many times I stop now and I see a family and the mom taking the picture, and I'm like, excuse me, can I take that for you? Do you want to get any picture so your kids know? Like 20 years from now.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think I had a mom.

SPEAKER_01

Why is mommy not in any of the pictures? Yeah. Because no one ever took that candid picture of me. There were so many things that were missing from my marriage and my relationship.

SPEAKER_00

But at the same time, you were present. I was 100% present. I was present for my kids. That to me is more than a picture. Although obviously pictures are nice because you can look back. But you were there in the moment, enjoying all those beautiful things. All the moments without the other load.

SPEAKER_01

I have zero guilt, absolutely zero guilt.

SPEAKER_00

That's a place I want to be in.

SPEAKER_01

Of staying home with my kids. Yeah. Zero. My guilt stepped in when I started working more and things like that. But when I stayed at home, I now looking back, I have no guilt. At the time, I was trying to do everything, right? Oh well, if I just mow the lawn, that'll free up more of his time. He'll be happier when he comes home. So not just the kids, but like trying to constantly do things to show my value. That was my issue. So now I have no guilt about staying home. My kids I've shared this before. My bathroom is from like the 50s. It's got that beautiful green tile. Yeah. I'm gonna get it done now.

SPEAKER_00

But as you should. Yeah. As you should.

SPEAKER_01

And I just did the job. But these are all things that waited because I was home and that because the money wasn't coming in. Take a back seat. And you know what? The bathroom took a backseat.

SPEAKER_00

Everyone's back seat looks completely different.

SPEAKER_01

It does. I love that. Yeah. And some people don't have a back seat. But listen, it does. It's different for everybody. And I think we all hold a I think we all hold. I'd love to do research on like get a hundred people in a room, right? A hundred moms and a hundred dads. And like somehow measure their level of guilt.

SPEAKER_00

Well, hold on. Now that we're saying that, I do not I don't want to end this episode talking about that guilt. Yeah. Because Juan's guilt is also looks different. Obviously, nothing like mine, but his guilt is the fact that he's never here. And he hates that. He tries everything that he can.

SPEAKER_01

We are becoming more evolved and and being able to get in our careers. And like you said before, we're we're stepping into the career, but the dads haven't stepped into the home. But their their perception and the male one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, this isn't the man podcast, it's the female one. But I'm just saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like I can love to know too, you know, and obviously I have conversation with him, so I know that this is one of his fields.

SPEAKER_01

What does in your day-to-day, what does quality time look like to you?

SPEAKER_00

Honestly, the day that I look mostly forward to now is Friday nights because we have movie nights as a family, and that's my quality time. Anytime I can be with my entire family. Yeah. What about you?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I absolutely love just me, Emily, and Aria. No phones, no appointments, nothing. You know, they're done with school, they're done with after school, and we can just sit, shut the curtains, lock the door, get some yummy snacks, and watch TV. Honestly. I used to feel guilty about TV time.

SPEAKER_00

Not anymore. No, but that's exactly my point. And it is the same. It's mine is movie night.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It's like you sit, you're together, and the older they get, obviously the the selection changes. So now there's things that we watch that is like, you know, older. And I and I'm not watching the Disney princess movies and things like that. And I also love, I and this this for me is quality, driving them to school in the morning. 10 minutes in the car, the conversation is always flowing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

On the way there and on the way back. But the quality for me is when the doors are locked, the phones are down, and it's just the three of us.

SPEAKER_00

That what I would love to know from people watching and listening is how do you cope with guilt? I'm really interested with that. Yeah. You know, if this is, you know, if there's an outlet, how do you cope with it? I would love to know.

SPEAKER_01

Or I'd like to hear as well. I know it's uh she's not done, but I'm curious if there's moms out there that go to work and dad stay home. Like, do the mums who go to work and the dad stay home have the same guilt? Yes, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So you might be a stay at home mom or a working mom.

SPEAKER_01

No matter what you're doing, you're not done. Bye.