She's Not Done

The Truth About Co-Parenting No One Wants To Say Out Loud

• Kouelee & Andrea • Season 1 • Episode 9

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0:00 | 54:07

In this deeply honest conversation, we unpack divorced parenting, co-parenting expectations, and the emotional reality behind what it actually looks like when two people separate but still share children.

One host shares openly that she doesn’t fully resonate with the word “co-parenting” in her situation — and that becomes the foundation for a raw, layered discussion about communication breakdowns, emotional triggers, healing timelines, and the difference between intention vs reality after divorce.

At its core, this episode is about acceptance — not of perfection, but of reality. And learning how to move forward when the picture you once had no longer exists.

“You can’t fix someone else’s experience of divorce — you can only manage your own.”

Raw. Honest. Unfiltered. Real life parenting after separation.

⏱️ Episode Time Stamps (56:00)

00:00 – Intro: Divorced parenting vs co-parenting
04:10 – What “co-parenting” actually means (vs reality)
08:35 – Default parent dynamic carries into divorce
13:20 – Trying to create “healthy co-parenting” early on
18:45 – Emotional triggers when communicating with an ex
23:10 – Why separation doesn’t equal emotional distance
27:55 – Different expectations of divorce outcomes
32:40 – “You leave before you leave” discussion
37:15 – Why communication styles break down post-divorce
41:50 – Protecting kids while managing adult emotions
45:30 – The hope of peaceful co-parenting vs reality
49:10 – Identity shift: mother, wife, and now single parent
52:00 – Rebuilding life, stability, and emotional independence
55:10 – Final reflections: acceptance, growth, and moving forward


#ShesNotDone #CoParentingJourney #DivorcedParents #DefaultParent #MomLifeUnfiltered #MotherhoodUnfiltered #DivorceHealing #SingleMomLife #BlendedFamilies #ParentingAfterDivorce #EmotionalLoad #MentalLoadMoms #ModernMotherhood #RealParentingTalk #HealingJourney #RelationshipTalk #MomPodcast #HonestConversations #WomenSupportingWomen #LifeAfterDivorce #ParentingRealTalk

Thank you for being here! And remember, you are NOT alone and you are Not done.

xxx Andrea & Kouelee


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SPEAKER_01

So today talking about divorced parenting, co-parenting, you know, on so I feel like a fraud using the word co-parent.

SPEAKER_03

Why is that? Because I we do not co-parent. No? No. And I always want to be clear that this is my experience.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So before you start, what do you define as co-parenting? I think like what does a perfect imperfect co-parent?

SPEAKER_03

I think a healthy co-parent relationship looks like Yeah, I think a healthy co-parent relationship looks like both communicating on a level between the two adults of what is what works consistently on a daily basis for the children, child, children, whatever.

SPEAKER_01

So not to be rude, but you get divorced for a reason. How can you expect to then co-parent?

SPEAKER_03

So that's you I don't know what other people's experiences. My personal experience was we didn't co-parent when we were together. Yeah, okay. So how do you shift into co-parenting through a divorce? Yeah. And through feelings and emotions. And I think that's part of it. Like you have to put that apart and think of the kids, which I feel like I do all this. It's automatic for me. Like my first thought is my kids. My first go-to is what do they need? My first, like I I'm last. So for me, I automatically parent. And I've been the default parent since they were born.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So now you move into divorce and separate houses. How do you go into a healthy co-parent relationship with somebody who I feel didn't communicate well?

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's it's really difficult. It's really difficult. Well, and and I think that having to communicate with someone you're probably still healing from, I think is also difficult. Okay. I think that communicating with somebody you're healing from still has to be difficult, right? Because and I'm not I I don't know if you're still healing from it, you might be past it, but this is still someone that triggers you every time you communicate. Because how could they not? Because you had to give up your entire marriage because of this person.

SPEAKER_03

I think so you have to at the beginning, my experience was at the beginning, I pictured it as they're gonna go, you know, they're gonna go there every other weekend, and how do we get them settled into that? Because they'd been with me 99% of the time. Now, this is just my personal experience, so I'm gonna be careful on what I touch on and what I don't touch on. Um, so at the beginning, I just wanted them to be comfortable in the other house, right? So there was things that I thought of doing, like the bedlinen from our house going there and the things that we used in the kitchen going there that would help in the process. That so, even during the the beginning of the divorce and the when you know the other parent moved out, those were that I automatically go went into how do we make the kids comfortable with this? Like that was my thought process. So any like annoyance to him or a disregard to him or however he triggers, kind of I disconnected from that when it came to them, but slowly but surely things it's really hard to explain without pissing someone off. We never co-parented, we don't care a co-parent now. I don't know what what his thought and his process on that is. I just know how my kids feel and how I feel and and and how we got to where we're at now. I tried to co-parent, it didn't work. It wasn't received. It I'm sure it's a different story from the other side, but for me, it wasn't, it just wasn't working. So for me, we didn't co-parent when we were married. I was the default parent. So then the priority for me when they when the other parent moved out, the priority was to make sure the kids were comfortable. It's such a transition going through a divorce, and there's so many emotions involved that my my emotions had to be paused to make sure they were okay. And my automatic go-to is to is the kids. I I automatically think of them first, I automatically put them first. I also like even in scenarios I probably shouldn't, it's just an automatic thing for me to put them first. So at the beginning, to me, co-parenting looked like, hey, I'm putting a burger on the grill, do you want to stop by? Hey, do you want to grab them for ice cream? Or to me, healthy co-parenting or sharing Was it because you felt bad?

SPEAKER_01

Right. So I guess I want to understand your thought process, right? Because when you're saying I'm putting burgers on the grill, come stop by, is it because you felt bad that maybe he's missing out?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, honestly, between him and the kids. Like to me, that's what that's what I had pictured. I'm gonna say that's what I wanted. Yeah, right. I wanted this free-flowing, come and go relationship where the kids were least affected. And unfortunately, as as things progressed and as time went on, that was it, it became impossible to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I in my head, I wonder how could you get. I don't know if I've ever seen people co-parent, I guess, in a healthy way, because how could you? You went, this is the person you married. This is the person you said you were gonna spend the rest of your life with. Somewhere along the lines, you both go your separate ways. It's never a happy time, it's never something where you're not gonna have some sort of resentment. One person is gonna have some sort of resentment unless you truly both wanted this divorce.

SPEAKER_03

I think for me, I wasn't I wasn't angry with the marriage being over, and I wasn't resentful. I knew that that's what this is where we're at, and this is the process we need to go through. So to me, it was a no-brainer because you processed it already. Yes, before it happened, before I mean again, we leave before we've left, and there was plenty of opportunities, and there was plenty of tries, and there was plenty of signs, and so to me, the divorce was imminent. Yeah, it was happening, right? How do we make this as easy as possible for the children? Yeah, so you know, I've also grown up with separated parents, stepparents, all different blended families. So to me, it wasn't bizarre to eat a burger with you or to go for dinner once a week.

SPEAKER_01

But I think this is a good point that you bring up because and and I think this is an important point that you bring up, right? Because you're saying that you grew up like this. You grew up in separated parents, stepparents. From a very early on, you were already, how do you say it? The you were shown familiar with what healthy, unhealthy co-parenting looks like.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yeah. My so my parents didn't co-parent and it was super unhealthy, but but I've had stepparents and I've had people in my life that have been a wonderful addition, yeah, that have loved me and I love them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know? So that's what I'm saying, where you came from that standpoint, yeah. So not only were you already ready, but you were already familiar with that situation, right? Where he was not. So that's why I'm saying, how can you get to a point like that where he didn't come from a family like that? One. No, he didn't.

SPEAKER_03

I didn't think about that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he came from a f family that's always been together. I don't know if his grandparents were together, but at least his parents were together. Both sets. So he knows nothing about growing up or his kids growing up, how that looks. He has no idea whatsoever. So not only does he not have an idea of what that looks like, right? But because you were already basically processed your divorce, because again, we leave before we leave, he's a million steps behind you.

SPEAKER_03

Took him a minute to catch up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. If he's ever going to catch up, because at the end of the day, it's not something that's familiar. It's not something that's not only familiar, but it's not something that he has ever pictured in his head, which you never pictured it, but you've experienced it.

SPEAKER_03

You know, I I looking back, I just wanted everything to be good for the kids. Yeah. So he didn't exper you're right, he didn't experience that kind of upbringing. Yeah. And I never thought about that until you said it. And I'm sure there's I know for me there was a lot of shame attached to the divorce. Yeah. And I'm sure he had to prophesy his own feelings.

SPEAKER_01

I came from a broken home or you know, a separated home, because I know you don't like using that term. Fixed. Yes. So I'm film familiar with that. So when it comes to divorce, right? And when Juan and I Grace divorce, it wasn't scary for me because financially I make really good money. Financially, I'm independent, I've experienced it. It's not something that looks scary because my I've seen my mom do it. Right. You know, but coming from his perspective, it's it's a scary thought because he didn't grow up like that. No, he never ne I never would want that for my family. Neither did does he, right? But if it does come to a point like that, and when we were talking about it, I'm sure that was extremely scary in his head. He wanted to do everything he could to fix everything that he couldn't.

SPEAKER_03

And I d I also think in those moments when we discussed it and I said this is where we're at, I know that that's truly what deep down he wanted. Yeah. But it just he wasn't, it wasn't possible. And I think when I say like I wanted to put a burger on or stop by, like how it looked in my head, I can't expect him to understand that or even know what that looks like, like you said. I know that like for him, from my point of view, he his world changed, right? So now he he changed where he lived, he changed seeing his kids every day. Yeah. All of those things that probably took for granted for years, that's changed for him. And my thought process even went to him and how he was feeling. I was put I was still putting myself last. So my thoughts were for the kids, my thoughts were for how he feels, and then some boundaries kept getting overstepped. And I kept getting triggered, however, you want to talk about that or look at that. And I my emotional stability started to take effect. So I had to slowly pull back. So, like, okay, we're not gonna do that, or okay, we're not gonna stop by for ice cream, we're gonna stick to the very regimented, you know, process that we have laid out by mediators.

SPEAKER_01

The thing is, I completely understand what you're seeing, what you wanted, right? Because at the end of the day, you're you want you're putting your kids first. So why wouldn't you want that healthy co-parenting? Why wouldn't you want him coming from for a burger? Why wouldn't you want all of that? And you guys even maybe spending holidays together.

SPEAKER_03

Why not? The first Christmas I did. The first Christmas had him over Christmas morning. And I think in my mind, why wouldn't it be that way? And in his mind, maybe it was why would it be that way?

SPEAKER_01

Well, so here's my train of thought, right? Because if I don't come from that experience and you've I'm putting myself in his shoes. Yeah. I'm not in his shoes, but this is would be my thought process in his shoes. Just like it would be my thought process for Juan because he didn't experience any of that. You have ripped away my entire world. There is nothing I want to be doing with you unless it is to make you miserable. That would be my thought process. Because I wanted none of this. I know I didn't do the work. Maybe I don't even know I didn't do the work.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe you don't even want it anymore, because you don't, because you know it's unhealthy.

SPEAKER_01

But my idea of marriage and a family, you just tore apart and you're completely fine. I'm not. I don't want to play by your rules. You're gonna play by my rules. So I'm gonna put a roadblock every possible way that I can, whether I want to or not. Because it's just not in me that you didn't want to make our marriage work. Why am I gonna make your divorce work? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

Well, there's a fucking reality.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sorry, but that you know. Honestly, yeah, that's how I would see it.

SPEAKER_03

Again, I don't know the other side. Yeah, however, the way you just explained it is, and I don't think anyone was mali, you know what I mean? But there was every time I thought I was doing something positive, I was re I I received, I was received negatively. Yeah, and everything I did was negative. Like, no matter what came out my mouth, he heard something different. And I know this because we've had conversations and repeated it back, and I'm like, that is not what I said. But the way the way I said it or whatever I said was received differently. And I can't do anything about that. So I had to get to the point where I was like, I have to protect myself and my emotional stability because it's too upsetting. I I have to be present for my kids. You can't have your cake and eat it too. But I but I want my cake. Yes, and it's delicious. No, but what do you mean? I can't have my cake and eat it.

SPEAKER_01

Meaning that's what I'm saying, as in you want a peaceful divorce. Oh, yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_03

To me, I didn't understand why it wouldn't be peaceful, right? But then I learned real fucking quick.

SPEAKER_01

But your marriage wasn't peaceful, so why would your divorce be peaceful?

SPEAKER_03

I have no idea why I thought that.

SPEAKER_01

Clearly, there's one party that didn't want that.

SPEAKER_03

Whether it was this was broken, in my mind, this was broken. Let me fix it. Yeah, there was nowhere else for us to go.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think for him, the same thing. And again, you're maybe you're right, maybe it it the process that he hadn't gone through that process, but there was nothing else to be done.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So to me, we were going in the right only direction that was visible. Yeah. And to me, that was like the best way forward to fix what was broken. So that's why I have an issue with a broken home.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

When someone says broken home, no, it was broken and now it's fixed.

SPEAKER_01

So have you ever had that conversation after whether or not he wanted a divorce? Whether or not it was, and I know that was the only way out, right? Because you've tried and tried and tried. I mean, he was miserable. I've never, but I'm saying, have you guys actually I I would want to know. I'm I'm curious to know because I feel like the only way healthy co-parenting can happen is if either both parties wanted this divorce, made it very clear this is what we both want.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Without any no, like you wanted more, you know what I mean? Or, you know, I asked for it, you didn't really ask for it, and you're accepting it. That's the only way in my head that a healthy co-parenting can happen. If both parties really.

SPEAKER_03

You know what? I don't never had that con I don't even know if we had that conversation. I just flash back to, you're making me feel bad now. No, no, no. It's just like as we're talking, it triggers a memory. And that memory is when you when you're saying to someone who you married, I want a divorce. Even though you want that, like, even though I want that divorce, you don't ever want to receive it, deliver it, say it, hear it. There's nothing about that that brings you any kind of peace or relief. And you know it's gonna be work, and you know it's gonna be a journey, and you know it's gonna suck, but you know you can't accept where you're at. And whether he wanted to divorce or not, I don't, I don't know. I know that he's healthier and happier now, and I know that I'm healthier and happier now, but it's a really it's a really difficult place to be. And I'm I've gone through so much work, like I'm upset now because it just triggered that core memory. But in general, there was no other way, there was no other way out, yeah. For me or the kids, yeah. I just couldn't, I couldn't live like that anymore. And I think for a long time after, I wanted everything to be okay, and I wanted us to live this great co-parenting relationship so we could say, look, we did it. Not in the way we wanted to do it at the beginning, but look, we're doing it.

SPEAKER_01

But I think this is why I'm saying that because I know who you are, and I know that this is what you pictured. You pictured your life until the end of your days with your ex-husband, but it didn't happen, and you pictured the rest of your future of your life, co-parenting in a healthy way, hanging out together because that's who you are. At your core, you never want pain. At your core, you're looking out for everyone else but yourself. But this is why I'm telling you that that how could it be peaceful? It can't. You wanted that, yeah. But it can't if you if you factor in both parties, unless both of them truly wanted that, right? Because when Juan and I were talking about divorce, it was not just me talking about divorce, it was also him talking about divorce. When we discussed every and we had no idea the the the depths of it. But when we talked, it was about, you know what, maybe you can live here and or even I think it came out of him. Maybe I'll rent because we have two-family home, maybe I'll rent the apartment upstairs, right? So that I could be here. This was, but I think it came like that because we were both in that place. But if he had said, I want a divorce and I didn't, or if I had said I want a worse, I want a divorce and he didn't. The anger. It's completely different. You're looking at two completely different outcomes. And and it can't be peaceful.

SPEAKER_03

It wasn't. I thought it would be, and it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's out of this is who you are. This is who you are as a person. Person. You never, and not that people do anything maliciously, but you, out of all people, you have the community at heart, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03

I just want, I just want people to be happy. Yeah. Right? Also, me to be happy. And I think that's where I got to was I just have to put myself first and stop expecting. Yeah. Because really, how dare I expect something from someone else? How dare I expect you to be okay? How dare I expect you to be understand where I'm coming from?

SPEAKER_01

That's that's you're trying to make someone comfortable that was comfortable. Yeah, you know what? I think You're trying to you're trying to fix his future, right? Divorce future by making him comfortable when he was okay with where he was at.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Even if he was miserable.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

He was okay with you.

SPEAKER_03

People don't always like change.

SPEAKER_01

And you're making a decision for him. Even though it was the right decision. Correct. Because you know, like and it happens in real life. We do that. I do that. I make decisions for Juan when he's absolutely fine where he's at. Right. Where he's at. Right. But in my mind, I'm thinking this is the better place to be. And that's how it should be. Yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_03

Like I pictured us going to dinner on a regular basis. Later on in life, future partners. Cool. I even pictured the picture.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know that Disney picture we talked about? Yeah. I even pictured mom, dad partners, extra extra kids. Oh my, you don't understand. But I think my brain goes to places that you've processed.

SPEAKER_01

I just processed. You looked, you looked past. You looked at the bigger picture. Even though it's so hard to do, you did that. Because a lot of people, when they look at divorce, they look at that moment. They don't look at what's after.

SPEAKER_03

Right. They just keep putting off saying those words and taking those steps. Because the pain of doing that is clearly, even now, still painful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I think from my standpoint, you should be with all the pain that you went through. I don't think that besides having your kids, there's anything else you could be more proud of. Because to me, taking that step when you're in such a dark place and you want nothing more than to make it work. And like you said, saying those words and doing it, saying the words is one thing. Actually doing it and knowing that your life is gonna look completely different tomorrow. Because the moment these words live you leave your lips, it's a different tomorrow. Yeah, it can't be the same as yesterday.

SPEAKER_03

I can never take that back from my kids. It's yeah, that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But I also didn't want them thinking that that was okay to live that way either. And that was the driving force behind it. Yeah. But so then I pictured, so now I pictured my marriage and that didn't work out the way that I had pictured, clearly, or anybody else. And then now I pictured my co- now I'd already I'd already pictured my co-parent in. How dare you not do what I already pictured? Like you're ruining my second dream.

SPEAKER_01

It could still happen, but I think look, I I've never been in that in those shoes, but I would assume that once he has fully processed this divorce and he's actually happy. Right. Because it's one thing to be divorced, but to be happy with his new life is another thing.

SPEAKER_03

See, I don't I don't know how to respond to that because I don't know what it looks like on the other side. I feel like he must be happier, right? However, I don't think my communication is my communication is minimal. Minimal. It went from talking to door drop-off to street drop-off to texting to emails at one point, to the point where it's just now it's it's like non-existent.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But also like the day-to-day stuff of the the running of the house and the kids, that's always been me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it's continued to be me. And there was a point where I'm like, I'm not gonna text you everything all day long, so you feel involved because he probably felt completely out of control, not involved at all.

SPEAKER_01

But I don't like he was involved then.

SPEAKER_03

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

So now we've moved into much changed for him, except for where he's at. And again, like you said, losing his kids to see them every day. Right.

SPEAKER_03

So and I'm still at the house and I'm still taking that role. Yeah, I there's a point where you say, it's no longer my responsibility to be your secretary. It's you know, like the things that you do for one on a daily basis, right? Like leave him a note, remind him of something, do this, do that. That role, I slowly was told, slowly but surely, that's not your role anymore. You don't need to do that anymore. That's not your responsibility anymore. So I stopped doing those things because it could look controlling. In a healthy co-parenting, it wouldn't be. It would be normal. Yeah. So it's like, where do you and if it's not being returned, for instance, right? Like you have to say when you're going out of state. So I always did that. Hey, we're going to Florida. But there's always this, this even now that they're with me all the time, I still set, you know, if we have a trip book, they still text. If there's a, if there's, I don't text if we go to the dentist or the doctors for a regular checkup, but like if there's a sickness, I'll let him know. You know, there's there's times that I try and reach out and I just, I don't know, it's just not. I don't know what it looks like from his side, but from my side, I just have to get on with raising them. I can't wait for you to catch up. I can't wait for you to understand where I'm coming from. I can't wait for you to understand that like that's not my job anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Does a part f does a does a part of you hate that he still has access to you in those ways?

SPEAKER_03

No, it used to. So, like, if we were going it through the divorce process and through emails and text messages, I hated that it would trigger me with certain things he would say or like micromanaging something that you never took responsibility for before. Why are you asking me that now? I don't understand. So I'm just continuing to do what I've always done. And so I would get triggered by certain things. And we've had conversations, and I'm a very emotional person. So like if we're if we're having a conversation and I feel passionate about something, I'm I'm animated. Yeah. And he's very mundane and and and and straight through the line. And and we there's so many times that I've picked up the phone to have a conversation for it to end in an argument. And is that my fault? Maybe. Is that his fault? Maybe. Is it both of our faults? Probably. And that that's when I realized whether we're married, whether we're divorced, whether we're that we just don't communicate well.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You turn me into somebody I'm not.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I turn you into someone you don't want to be.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I don't want to fucking do this anymore.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I have to get to the point where it's it's communicating through text. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But even that can be hard because you you know when somebody sends you a text and you just know how they are, so you read it in their voice.

SPEAKER_03

I can assure you the amount of times I've read a text. And I know it's not it, I know it's not sent that way, but the way I've received it, like I this is what I do now. I pause, I process, yeah, I wait a fucking minute, yeah, and then I read it again, and I can tell you, yeah, 90% of the time I read it completely different an hour later.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or you should have ChatGPT read it for you instead. I'm not even going to get a completely different voice.

SPEAKER_03

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Chat GTP is a great tool. GPT. GPT GTP. I don't use it, but I know women who use it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Make the emotion out and respond to something. I do that. I think it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01

I have to be. I mean, I don't want to lose my critical thinking, so I don't know. But you it it it has saved me. Yeah. With just responding, okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. No. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Instead of oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03

So that's so this is the thing too. You're learning to communicate with somebody, you know each other's triggers.

SPEAKER_01

But that's what that was my first question. Yeah. How hard it is for you to communicate with someone you're still healing from.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Well, I feel like I'm in a place that's fucking fantastic. Yeah. Right. But when you're first going through this process, you and you've been together 20 years, married 18, you know exactly what pisses each other off. Yeah. Like the things that are said Snyday or just because you're having a bad day, it's like that takes a long time to go away. And maybe sometimes it never goes away, but you know what triggers it. Now, down the line, right? I don't know who that person is anymore. The person that the the their father is not the person I married. Yeah. And I'm sure I'm not the the woman that he married. So I don't know who he is anymore. And I don't, and I can't co-parent with someone who I don't I don't understand or see or have any we never communicate through our marriage.

SPEAKER_01

But that's that's also why I was asking if you keep meaning like how can you expect the good out of co-parenting if your marriage already wasn't it's like because you hope correct, but this this is the same thing as when you pick your partner and you see all these red flags, but you're like, maybe they'll change. Maybe. Yeah, what red flag? It's that hope that we hold on to because we desperately want this to work somewhere or another.

SPEAKER_03

In my brain, that wasn't working, and I want I I don't stay where it doesn't work, so let's move here. So in like you said, I processed it maybe sooner than he did, even though he knew that like that wasn't happiness in a fucking nutshell. But I you hope, you hope, my hope was I said this wasn't working, we tried everything, and now we're here. Maybe maybe now it will be seen or understood, or maybe I'll be heard, or maybe we'll both get therapy in our individual ways and end up being able to communicate better and co-parent. So you hold on to hope. Yeah, and that doesn't happen. So now I'm not triggered, right? Now I'm not triggered by emails or texts, I'm just like whatever, you know. And they're very rare, and it but I think because I'm in a place of I don't get triggered, but I it it can be very triggering.

SPEAKER_01

I think that now that you're saying that too, involving the kids, right, and their I guess their peace and because kids notice tensions. I coming from a fixed home, however you want to call it. I like that saying I noticed the tensions. Yeah. Do I know it I don't know if it affected me. I d because I can't think back like that far back. I can't remember that far b that far back. I don't know if the tensions f are affecting me today and how I perceive my marriage versus somebody like Juan who's never had any tension in his home. He grew up with two parents. So in a fight, I resort to fight or flight. I want the easiest way out. I wanna where's the door?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, uh, this is uncomfortable. I don't want to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Versus him, even though he hates confrontation, he's he still sees the good at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's a that's a wonderful thing. It is, but I wonder if it it is because this is he grew up in one home. I don't know. I know I do know that obviously divorce affects kids. Yeah. So does so does unhappy households.

SPEAKER_01

Like, do like, for example, right? For me, did did what happened to me affect who I chose today?

SPEAKER_03

I'm sure, somewhere along the line, right? Because it it the map of your past is the direction to your future. Yeah, right? Like every part of your past has molded you into the incredible person you are, the good and the bad. Yeah, the same for me. Every single experience I've had, I cherish because it's got me to where I am. Yeah, you know, even my bad relationships have taught me something. And it's gonna be it's gonna be blatantly aw clear why those things happen to me when I need to know why those things happen to me. And I think for my kids, when it first listen, me and the girls are very connected. Yeah, I I I have nurtured and grown and cherished every single part of my relationship with them. There is no way they are not affected when I am so severely affected by a process, when I'm so stressed. There's no way they don't see that or feel it. As much as you want to protect them from divorce, as much as the as much as I never say anything negative about their dad, when they see that you're stressed or crying or upset, they're very intelligent, right? They're super connected, they know something's going on. And if I if you tell them nothing's going on, now you're just like teaching them that their feelings are wrong or what they're picking up on is wrong. So you have to be very careful. I'm just having a bad day, sweetie. I'm just, you know, like the things that you say are so important. So I think this also is part of the co-parenting journey, right? So if they're home and they see me busting my ass and they see me struggling, they see me get sick, or they see me upset about something, and then they get in the car with their co-parent, and their co-parent says something negative about their mother, they may not tell you that in that moment, and you may never know. But when they've just watched all the things that that have happened in the last week, there is some negativity they're gonna hold on to for that other co-parent. Yeah. So, like the things that you say and the things that you do, it is affecting them. Yeah, it does sit with them, they do remember.

SPEAKER_01

But also on on the good side, I think that what I know the you know, the pain for you and probably the guilt you have for them about this whole situation. I think that them seeing that you shouldn't stay somewhere right if you're unhappy. Yes, for them to see that in their future, if something like this happens, they know I can do this is wonderful, but at the same time, it's scary because they're preconditioned to already know that it can be okay, and that's what I was saying. Because me, when it came to divorce and and talking about it, I wasn't scared. Why?

SPEAKER_03

Because my mom has done it, I was petrified and I was raised by a single mom.

SPEAKER_01

But that's also financially financially correct, and I think probably yeah, and you should have said that, and it I've said that that if financially I wouldn't have been in the place that I had been, I I would be someone that stays in the marriage because I'm terrified. I don't think I could have taken that step, but because I wasn't, right? It it was another thing that it didn't bring you full of fear. I was full of fear. That's scary to me. Yeah. Because I feel like you should, regardless of your financial fear. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I didn't because I I I I've seen it. I was financially independent. So what fear would I have had?

SPEAKER_03

Which I think is fantastic. You stayed and worked on your marriage because you wanted to. Yes, not because you were shoved in a corner and you had no choice, not because you needed health insurance, not because you were scared how you were going to afford to put food on the table or cover the roof over your head. You stayed because you wanted to stay and make it work, and maybe that's why you're in a successful, happy marriage, yeah, right? That is not my experience. Yeah, and I just couldn't stay anymore, even though I was full of fear and guilt is extraordinary because that just takes a whole different person.

SPEAKER_01

It's just gotta be better. You have to some and and I'm sure you I don't know if you hid yourself for for that. No, I don't know if you feel proud. You know what I mean? I I to me, I feel it sounds so fucked up to say. I think you should be proud. No, it sounds fucked up as in like I'm cheering. She's I'm divorced. I'm meaning I'm cheering for you to be divorced. No, I'm cheering for you to the way that you've raised your girls, the way that you came from not being financially independent to the woman you are today, being financially independent, having a roof over your head, having kept the roof over your head. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

Keeping that roof over my head. That is something to be one of my top priorities. I was not making those kids move after going through a divorce. Yeah. And that was not easy.

SPEAKER_01

But that's what I'm saying. It's it's so fucked up in the midst of everything to like feel proud.

SPEAKER_03

I actually really feel like you're making me smile now. Yeah, I feel proud of the life I've built for us. Yeah. And from from where I was five years five years ago, full of fear, full of anxiety, full of doubt.

SPEAKER_01

That to me, when I when I I see a successful woman, is that it isn't that crazy? And it's not because of the divorce, but it's because us women, if someone can do it, it's us moms. Because she's not done. Yeah. Right? Like that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_03

From you're com yeah, I from fear, from guilt, from from you've rebuilt an entire new life. Yeah. And it's a really nice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I love it. And good things are happening.

SPEAKER_01

And your kids are amazing kids. Like, that's not easy.

SPEAKER_03

No, it's not. Let me tell you. Yeah. Listen, I'm sure as they get older and they get into therapy, I mean, they've been in therapy and they've had cancelling, and and we've had some really rough times.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And that's normal. Every family has that. Divorced or not.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Divorced or not. Yeah. Mental illness or not. Like all of those things, people, whether you're divorced or not, come up with kids. It's it's they go through different phases, different things, different, different problems. Their problems may not seem so big, but to them they are. Like all of these things snowball into into into that's parenting. Right. But I'm just like really, they're gonna sit in therapy one day, maybe. And the the maybe they're gonna complain. I could I I guess. Upset in therapy that I wasn't loved enough, right? They're gonna sit in therapy and be like my mom loved me too much.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but that's the best gift you can have. They've seen everything you were going through. And if this is what you get at the end of the day, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And you we took we talked about it before consistency. No matter what I was going through, I consistently showed up for them. No matter what happened, I consistently showed up for them.

SPEAKER_01

No matter I'm laughing because in no way, shape, or form am I promoting divorce. Oh no, but you know what? I let's not promote staying when you when you're what I'm promoting is that you rebuilt from everything that was against what you wanted. Right. That's what I'm proud of for you. Thank you. You know, thank you very much. Not a divorce, but it everything that came after for you, that you the thing is you've done this by yourself.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you have done this, and you know what's and and I have an amazing support system, and I have some really good, solid people in my life, but I am super, super proud of not staying somewhere that I was no longer wanted, yeah, or cherished, or loved. I'm gonna do it on my I'm gonna be alone, and I'm not I'm not saying I'm gonna be alone forever. I'm gonna be alone until I find that person who loves and cherishes me. And I'm not settling for anything less. And I'd I'd rather be alone than live in a miserable house.

SPEAKER_00

But like you said, money is nothing, it isn't. It's nothing.

SPEAKER_03

I have a roof over my head, and I I can drive my kids to school and everything. And listen, we're we're I have built a successful business, yeah, and I'm I'm really proud of that. But there's been times we've had nothing, yeah, and we've sat at home and ate ramen noodles and been perfectly content. Me too. That's nothing wrong with it.

SPEAKER_01

Like 55 cents. I remember Boca and I, that's so off topic. Lived together. We would literally buy ramen noodles, and that's all we had. The money, we barely had any money, but we were happy. See, this was eating from the dollar store. We were extremely happy. You see, something people we did save our money for alcohol, but or you with your one glass.

SPEAKER_03

There was something to be said for people who've had nothing. I've been in situations where I've had nothing and I've been hungry and I've I've I've this is a later explanation, but I've somewhat been homeless, right? Like yeah in England years ago. So I feel like when you've gone through so much real tough shit, I'm not saying my divorce wasn't difficult, it was awful, it's one of the worst things I've ever experienced, but I also know that nothing is those feelings aren't permanent. Yeah, it's temporary. And I always know that there's something better around the corner, yeah, and that you shouldn't settle. And when you've done really hard shit, like move countries with no money.

SPEAKER_00

Hey, like we did that.

SPEAKER_03

I feel like we appreciate the the the ramen noodle and the giggles and the we don't need those things to fulfill us because we know even when we have those things, that isn't the thing that's gonna fulfill us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

The things I do that make me proud.

SPEAKER_01

I think there is uh sorry to cut you off, but there is something to say about immigrants. I thought you were gonna say there's something to be said about what no, but about immigrants, like it it's some shit to whether you you're you're crossing the border on foot or you're you're moving across countries or you're you know over the ocean with nothing in your pocket, like we're built different. That takes that takes built different some fucking balls. I will hire the immigrant over a non-immigrant all fucking day.

SPEAKER_03

Let me tell you, yeah, you go from what you are known and what you're comfortable in, and you pick your ass up and you take it to a whole other country with nobody you know, and no, no thing, no comforts that you've you've grown up with if you're lucky enough to go, please. I and speak in a different language. You like not for me. I was just gonna say, Wait, you not for me, but for me, for example, yeah. Yeah, I mean, come on, like I feel like that's just you've got some grit when you do that, and uh and I feel like immigrants pull together. I think that's probably how we bonded initially.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, do you know that in insane I only have friends that are immigrants? Oh, the immigrants I am closest to have all come from a different country.

SPEAKER_03

I'm automatically drawn to someone who's familiar to me because I came to something so unfamiliar, yeah, that that I think immigrants do do that, and I just I think there's some kind of grit. I'm not saying just immigrants, but like you're right, there's something to be said for it. Yeah, it you have like a different drive, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

And your work drive has always been insane, but again, it comes from that because why I came here with nothing. What was my what was my option? The only way is up it's either that or I marry rich, and I was not getting married at 21.

SPEAKER_03

I was just about to say, you don't have the patience to marry rich, you know what I mean? No, no, I want to be the richer man, just like Juan wants to be the stay-at-home mum.

SPEAKER_01

I love him for that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, I think anyway, yeah, but also for Juan, he's come up from nothing, nothing, but that and again, when you've had nothing, you appreciate the other stuff, but that stuff is not relevant to your happiness. That's my true, that's my true belief for me. Yeah, I've got I've had nothing, and I've had amazing things. Yeah, and my happiest times are when I've had nothing or eaten ramen. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I just the thing is, I think also we're never too good for anything. No, again, I shopped at the dollar store. I'm going, I'm going there tomorrow. I moved in to I had an apartment. Left my apartment to move into Juan's basement. Right. I didn't care because it didn't matter. It wasn't the apartment. It it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It really didn't matter, and all this really doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03

If you're unhappy, so I just want to touch back on something else. It's you you saying that. I've had this conversation right with the kids. They would go to the apartment. I call it, you know, it it was their dads, and they just didn't want to be there. And I said, Is it just I know this sounds awful, right? Like it people think because they stayed in the house that they just want to be at home. I can tell you, hand on my heart, if I moved into that apartment, it it would love to be it was it wasn't about the apartment, and that's like the the energy, the love, the feeling apartment.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And it's it's the same when you walk into somebody's house and you feel at home. Right. It's the same. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It's the same thing. You can't explain that to someone that doesn't get it, but but that was part of it as well, right? Like it's if you if you can't see what it is, how do you fix it? And if you don't want to see what what it is, you're never gonna fix it. Yeah. So the the yeah, but but you're right about the home energy that my kids invited themselves here on Sunday, so love that. I'll be back in a few days. Fine.

SPEAKER_01

So anyway, you I think that there's so much, and I'm sure we'll do another episode on co-parenting, just because there's so much to be said about so many feelings around that. Right.

SPEAKER_03

And listen, there's people out there that co-parent amazingly.

SPEAKER_01

There's people out there that I would love to know if they've been in a rough divorce or rough marriage that ended in a divorce, and they're now co-parenting peacefully. What helped? Right. What was the the driver behind that? I wonder if it's some some it's time, some it's family counseling, right? I would love to know. Yeah, you know, because at the end of the day, you can only fix yourself when you already want it. You can't fix the other party.

SPEAKER_03

You can't. And having expectations for other people. Like that's where I have to learn. Yeah. That that just because I want it or just because I see something a certain way doesn't mean that someone else is going to. You know? And I'm maybe I'm just a really difficult person that that you are. Right? I mean, not everybody's cup of tea. Maybe they prefer coffee. Oh boy. Well, so I think that's the end of our co-parenting discussion for today. I'm gonna go and address my feelings. So, um, whether you co-parent or don't co-parent, um you're not alone. Then you're definitely not done.