Couples Therapy: Too Late Or Best Way To Save Your Marriage?

This week on She's Not Done, we're having an honest conversation about couples therapy—what it is, who it's really for, and why so many couples wait until they're on the brink of divorce before asking for help.

We talk about our own experiences with marriage, divorce, communication, accountability, and why therapy isn't always about saving a relationship—it can also help you understand yourself better.

Whether you're happily married, struggling, dating, or divorced, this episode offers an honest perspective on what healthy relationships really require.

We'd love to hear from you:
👉 Did couples therapy help your relationship?
👉 Would you go before things got bad?
👉 What's one thing that helped you reconnect with your partner?

Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it.

Chapters (33-minute episode)

00:00 Intro & Would You Ever Get Married Again?

02:35 Why Couples Therapy Has a Bad Reputation

05:20 Two Different People, One Shared Life

08:05 Our Personal Experiences with Marriage Counseling

11:10 Why Therapy Only Works If Both People Want It

14:15 Accountability vs. Blame

17:00 Therapy as Prevention, Not Punishment

20:05 Losing Connection After Kids

23:00 Why Date Nights Matter More Than You Think

26:10 The Fear of Divorce vs. Fear of Being Alone

29:15 Why Communication Is Everything

31:30 Final Thoughts: Is Couples Therapy Worth It?

Thank you for being here! And remember, you are NOT alone and you are Not done.

xxx Andrea & Kouelee

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Whatever happened today just alright, you know what? Let's just threw it up on the table. Yeah. Because you're so angry and because you're exhausted and welcome back to She's Not Done. I'm your host, Kouelee. I'm your host, Andrea. Still married. Still divorced. I don't know why we're laughing about it. Because technically, if you think about it, like you being divorced, like I want you to get to a point where. Well, no, actually, that would mean you have to remarry. Do you want to remarry again?

Speaker 2 0:44

I don't think. I don't think I'm I wouldn't I don't see a reason for me to ever get remarried again. I I I'm not against other people doing it. Yeah. Like, have at it, good for you. I've known people that get remarried. I have no interest in getting married ever. I don't think to fully commit to somebody, I need to marry them.

Speaker 1 1:07

I agree. I think that it's overrated nowadays. I think that there's so many more things that need to be valid instead of having a piece of paper that says you're married. I feel like being married creates more problems, pressure.

Speaker 2 1:25

Expectations. And then you see a lot on social media and your marriage isn't like that. I mean, I'm not saying everything's social media's fault, but I just I don't I don't ever see myself being married again.

Speaker 1 1:38

I just don't I don't I think that if I was to ever get divorced, which I don't plan to, but if that was to ever happen, I don't think I would ever remarry.

Speaker 3 1:48

No. And my reasons as well, right? Like I I love my life and I'm so happy where I'm at.

Speaker 2 1:59

It's even just to get out of that comfort zone, like someone's gonna have to I've said it before, they're gonna have to turn up on a horse holding poppies with snacks. Like the snacks. Then maybe, then maybe I'll have a conversation. But uh, you know, I also don't want to I I don't have time for small talk. Yeah, right? Like I want an intimate relationship with someone. I do, I but like on a deeper level, yes, but I can't get that unless I get to know them and have feelings, but I also don't want to know what your favorite fucking color is.

Speaker 1 2:39

Like I don't want to have those conversations. I'm funny you say that because just recently someone at work said to me, Cooley, you're so quiet, you don't really like to talk. And my response just was like, No, it's not that I don't like to talk, I love to talk, I just hate small talk. I would love a deep conversation if you want to have a deep conversation with me. Let's go. Yeah, but I'm not gonna sit here and say, How are you?

Speaker 3:02

Hi, hi, how are you doing today? How's the weather's so nice? It's hot. Your kids are so cute.

Speaker 3 3:09

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 3:10

I it's I know they are going back to women say why you don't have a feeling probably why that's also probably why a hundred percent.

Speaker 2 3:23

But seriously, I don't know. I think we shifted into dating. Maybe that's what we're talking about on this one, but uh couple's therapy.

Speaker 1 3:31

I know, but I think we've shifted into dating today's topic to talk about couples therapy. Yes, when is it worth it? Is it worth it? Is it something that people should look into if they're struggling? Or and you know what does it mean? Because a lot of times people think that you asking for therapy from your partner is uh because you're on the brink of a divorce, because something must be wrong, or because I don't know, you hate each other, right? I mean, listen, it could be that, it could be that, but a lot of times people forget that you know couples therapy is is maybe for prevention, I like communication reset, right? And to try and fix something.

Speaker 2 4:26

You have two completely different human beings coming together and living life, living one life, two human beings that are completely different, yeah, living the same life, and then you bring kids into it, or not, or not, maybe you want kids and they don't. Yeah, maybe they have kids and you're done. Yeah, but we're never done. But you know what I mean? Like there's there's so many things, two human beings that live that have been raised completely different, that have different different habits, maybe different wants and needs. I mean, I would hope that when you get together with someone, your values are similar, right? Like my values today are exactly the same as they were when I met my ex-husband. Yeah. The my core values have not changed.

Speaker 1 5:14

You know what's funny about core values is that because you bring up the fact that people are raised completely differently, right? Two different homes, two different cultures possibly. But I wonder if you are raised from the same culture or come from the same country and have the same core values, core beliefs. Are your chances of surviving higher? Yeah. I really wonder because a lot of times I see people who religiously, you know, are extremely devoted and have that in common on top of being two different human beings. Like, how does it work? I don't know. I don't know if you have your chances are higher if you come from the same country, the same religious background, the same culture.

Speaker 2 6:07

I don't have experience with that, right? So I can't even tell you. Yeah, you know, what's what's the survival rate of those marriages? Because I know the survival rate of my marriage. So, you know, yeah, it's back to the counseling. I think it's absolutely worth it. That's just my personal opinion. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 6:26

So let me ask you then, because I didn't know that you went to counseling. So my question to you before knowing that was would you accept counseling therapy if your partner was to to suggest it? And since you did, yeah, did you suggest it? Did he suggest it? And when did it come into question?

Speaker 2 6:51

So I remember the timing only because of I didn't have my I didn't have Aria, and Emily was little. And now, like we just discussed, right? There's two separate people coming and living one life, and then you buy a hat, let's just say, for instance, in my situation, then you buy a house and you're living in the house and the bills are coming in and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you have, we had our first child. And I think there was already red flags, but you know, you're young and you overlook it, and you're just like, oh, it's gonna work, and oh, they're gonna that, you know, things that I didn't like, or I started to notice, like the lack of communication or the broken promises. You just push it off, you push it off, push it off. You're busy with this young one, right? You're just trying to stay alive, you're just trying to, you know, get through the day-to-day stuff, running the house and taking care of a new human being. Let me just keep this alive, right? So you kind of your marriage gets pushed aside, but it had got to the point where it we needed help, and I wanted to prevent. I never wanted to get divorced. That was again, when you get married, I don't know anybody that gets married that plans on a divorce. So I never wanted my kids thinking about it now. It wasn't not that it wasn't for me, but I never wanted my kids to go through a house that was separated. So I we want we went to counseling. And that's the thing with counseling, you both have to be on board, right? You have to go in with an open mind, you have to listen to each other and the professional that you have chosen to help you, right? Now put all that into perspective and you're having these discussions, it's not that's the start. That's the start of counseling. When you leave, how are you continuing your life outside of that room? Are you able to communicate effectively? Are you able to make the changes that need to be made for you to be in a better place in your marriage effectively? So if you're going and meeting with this professional and they're giving you tools and you're not using them, then you're shit out of love. What's the point? Yeah. So then at that point it's not worth it. Correct. And for us, it worked for a while, right? But then the behaviors come back. And for me, I also stepped into my own therapy after going into marriage counselling because I realized I needed to heal a few things. So it was beneficial both ways for me. Yeah. You know, and then we had our second child, and I'm so grateful for that, right? But then the tools weren't being used, and then we slowly slipped back into, and maybe it was just never gonna work. But at least I know for me, I tried everything before I said I can't do this anymore. I tried every avenue, and that is I'm not here to give anybody advice, I'm not here to tell anybody how to do their marriage or not marriage or divorce or not divorce. Oh, uh only the people living in those moments fully understand what they're in.

Speaker 4 10:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:02

I like I would say to anybody thinking about divorce, make sure you have tried every avenue. Yeah. Unless you're in an abusive marriage, then get the fuck out, right? Like make a safety plan.

Speaker 1 10:14

Even then. Of course.

Speaker 2 10:17

Right? Make a safety plan. Speak to someone you trust. Don't, you know, so I don't mean to like just put a vast area on it. But for me, I definitely, definitely think it was worth it. I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I tried every avenue.

Speaker 1 10:32

Yeah. Do you think you would? So when Juan and I were going to, well, when we were speaking about getting a divorce, we thought, well, therapy came up. But I think, and I'm glad we didn't do it. And here's why. Because I was certainly not ready for as much as I wanted to do therapy, I was more in, well, yeah, let's go to therapy so that the therapist can prove me right. Well, that was my mindset, right? You know, and his mindset, I believe, was probably about the same, you know, but he was more interested in fixing things because he wanted the therapist to prove me wrong. You know, so I'm glad we didn't do it because I think that we would have not been ready to fix our marriage. I think I was ready for to take accountability, and so was he, but it was more of a blame game. We weren't in that position because we also didn't go from let's be in a relationship and then separated and then a divorce. It was immediately let's get a divorce. So I think we were just in anger mode, and also it was not until, and you know, maybe different people have different experiences, but when I spoke on divorce, I was not ready for him to speak on it as well. So when you're in that mindset of, well, I want a divorce, and you're so sure that in a sense he wants to fix it, but then he doesn't, and he wants a divorce, that hits completely different.

Speaker 2 12:22

The response you wasn't expecting that response. Definitely.

Speaker 1 12:26

And so in my mind, I that's why I'm saying I'm happy we didn't go to therapy because it we were both not in the right mindset. It was a blame game, it was not let's fix this relationship, is who's more right than who's not. And I think that yeah, I think that if we had gone to to therapy, it would have been an absolute disaster. Absolute disaster. And I'm glad we didn't, but I'm also glad that we said the D word out loud because that's when it made me realize. Well, I'm glad that he said it because that's when it made me realize that I hadn't tried everything that I needed to try, and that he was not a hundred percent of the problem, that I had a part in it. Because sometimes you're clouded in you're doing everything. I'm a good wife, I'm a good mom, I'm a good partner. But then when the divorce word comes up, that's when if you're in the right mindset for yourself, that's when you then realize all the mistakes you've made, all the steps you still have to take that you haven't taken. And so I'm glad that it came to that because then it made us really look within on both ends as to all right, well, we clearly don't want a divorce, which is fantastic, right?

Speaker 2 13:54

That you both came to that realization individually, yeah.

Speaker 3 13:58

And and and here's the thing as well maybe neither of you were wrong. Yeah. And neither of you are right, right.

Speaker 1 14:07

It's these two human beings learning to live a life together, yeah. And you both have to come. And bringing a child into this world, and that's exactly what it was. We brought Adriana into this world, and we were both not ready for what it was going to bring, good and bad in a sense, and not prepared whatsoever. We were probably your most unprepared parents on all ends of the spectrum, and so I think it was just pent-up anger. Right. Yeah. Frustration. Would I have done it if we were both in the same mindset as you 100%? I believe in therapy. I think it's for yourself, for as a couple, you know, as an individual. I think it's extremely important to have someone else's perspective. I consider myself a mentally extremely strong person. I have lived with myself, if that makes sense. I've lived alone. So I've dealt with all my emotions by myself, which is not always a good thing, but it made me learn a whole lot of things about myself. I think that people who have never lived on their own, never lived on their own, I think that they have not dealt with themselves. They've always been with someone trying to regulate their emotions. So, but yeah, that's a that's a whole different topic. But I think that I would have 100% done therapy, would have we been in the right mindset.

Speaker 2 15:42

Yeah, I think as well. Thank God that you both recognized it.

unknown 15:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:47

I think that's great. Honestly, that's a marriage, right? That's what you do. You're not both perfect, you're not both gonna have the same ideas all the time. Jesus. Like we're individual, thank God. Yeah, we're individual beings. Yeah. With different, different thoughts, different, different, and hey, listen, sometimes those values change as well and different values. But let's just say, you know, would you use it as a preventative, right? So for instance, there's prenups now, right? Before you get married. That is a preventative to to the to the worst case scenario.

Speaker 1 16:20

So do you think now that like going to counseling now just as a tool for your marriage, or is that do you think that it has to get to the point where you're no, I I I I agree with you, and I think that it's important that like I think we should make the time to do that as a tool.

Speaker 2 16:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 16:43

And also to reconnect. Reconnect. I think that with work, with kids' life, we don't take the time in a marriage to talk to each other enough. And sometimes I think that therapy could bring that deeper connection.

Speaker 2 17:05

Yeah, yeah, because you're doing the day-to-day stuff, right? You're passing at the door, one coming in from work, the kids need you. Yeah, I mean, your kids again, they're really little. Like even when we're hanging out, they need you. Yeah, they and and it's not like they they love me.

Speaker 1 17:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:20

But when they need mom, they need mom. Yeah. So it doesn't matter who's there, that's what they want. And I think that recognizing that and that there's a disconnect. I'm such a huge advocate for reconnecting with your husband, wife, partner, because you get so lost in the day-to-day stuff.

Speaker 1 17:37

Not only partner with yourself too. Right, of course. Because you can't be, and it's for your kids mostly, but you can't be a perfect mom or the mom you want to be if you're yourself are not healed. Yeah. And I think it's also extremely important for women to find that reconnection with yourself after having a child. I think that after having a child, yeah. And and the way you view yourself as a mom, the way that I view myself as a mom, the the struggles that I go through mentally, I think it's important to have therapy just for that. Forget couples' therapy, just for yourself, to be better in your couple.

Speaker 2 18:26

And I I think about that from my personal experience. I was so engrossed with my kids. They were priority, as they should, like for me. That's my opinion. For me, as they should be, right? But there was a huge disconnect. So when I didn't keep reconnecting or trying, there was no connection. Yeah. Because you're just wrapped up in life. And at the end of the day, I'm exhausted and I I don't really want to.

Speaker 1 18:55

But the thing is, when you're in a marriage, that's why you're in a marriage, is so that and and marriage is work. So yeah, you should work on reconnecting, right? So even if you're exhausted, because your marriage is also a relationship that you should work for, right? So Juan asks me all the time, when are we gonna go for dinner? And yeah, life comes and I'm wrapped up in everything else, and it's the last thing on my mind because everything else needs to get done, and everything for me able to be able to function. But he's looking for that reconnection, and it's not that I don't want to, I would love to. I would absolutely love to because I love going for dinner with him and just reconnecting, just like that. It's just that life happens and then you forget, and then a month has passed by and you didn't go for dinner, and it's important to do so. Yeah, I need to make a better effort of doing that, but also when we don't have the help, we don't have that village. When do you go for dinner? That's the that's because then you're it's it's based on somebody else's schedule. Yeah, they're available, and then you might not be mentally available when they're available.

Speaker 2 20:07

There's so many lines that need to align to get on a date when you're when you're married and working full-time and have kids and sports and dance and blah blah blah. And uh I just listen, I'm a huge advocate for it. It's one of the reasons I mean, there's many reasons, but the disconnect was huge. And I had tried multiple ways to reconnect. Also, I think one saying let's go for dinner is fantastic. Would he plan that though? Because this one less thing, right? Like, hey, when are we going for dinner? How about you just say, Hey, Friday, seven o'clock, the babysitter's coming, we're going for dinner. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, because I know the thing is, he does. He does do that.

Speaker 1 20:46

He does, yeah. That's amazing. And so it's me. I know that for I I know for a fact. Like, he, I don't know, I think it was actually two weeks ago. He said, you know, when are we gonna going for dinner? I can ask so-and-so to come watch the girls, you know, and it's not that I don't want to, it's just that life is hard, yeah. And so I get tired, I get busy, and it's easier to put your pajamas on and stay in your house.

Speaker 2 21:15

I know. It is, it is great.

Speaker 1 21:19

So But yeah, it's it's it's when you're in a marriage, in a sense, you made vows to to make it a promise to work on that and to keep that going. So yeah, it it is definitely more me than him for sure.

Speaker 2 21:35

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:36

And I feel like I owe it to our marriage to work hard on it, which you know, my it's it's little by little.

Speaker 2 21:44

Sometimes it gets put on the back burner because the other things are imperative in that moment to be done.

Speaker 4 21:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1 21:51

So and then, you know, it it could be that you're so excited about it, and then something doesn't get done that day, or something doesn't work the way that you want to and then you're just turned off by it. You just don't want to go. That's switch. And then you have to go because you made that promise, but you're not in the mood to connect. It happens. And it's okay. You know, it's okay and it's not a big deal as long as you try again though. Yeah. It does become a big deal when you don't try again. When you're just like, all right, well we yeah, we didn't do it this week. Let's go next week. But if you didn't go this week and then you don't make an point to go next week or the following week and then it just becomes another two, three months. So then from the two months before it became now five. Right.

Speaker 2 22:38

Now you're looking at six months where you haven't connected with your your partner. Yeah. And it happens that quickly. Of course. Before you know it, you're a year in yeah I think I think it's good that you that you recognize it. And you know I'm just a huge advocate for counseling. Yeah. For individual therapy for couples therapy for even before it's broken. Even before it's broken because there's things that are sitting with that other person that maybe you don't know about. I can answer all the questions on what pissed me off. I can answer all the questions on what led to my divorce but I don't know the answers from the other side right because there's things that you think you know that person and you're you're dealing with their behavior but what got to that right so I think counseling is I think counseling is a really good tool that should be used.

Speaker 1 23:29

I think that well what I wanted to know is do you think that people are more afraid of a breakup or of being lonely right because a lot of times therapy happens because we are at the breaking point it's not being used as a prevented preventative tool. Right. It's being used because we're about to be done in a sense so and do you think it doesn't happen because people are afraid of a breakup or being lonely that then they try to make it work because they're afraid of a breakup they're afraid of being lonely I think some people go through therapy what was that?

Speaker 2 24:19

That was high kick I think some people go um I think some people go through therapy and I and maybe they get to the end of it and realize this marriage isn't gonna work.

Speaker 1 24:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:37

But either way you've reached out and done everything you can do right I'm sure a lot of people go to marriage therapy and marriage counselling and it and it and it ends in divorce right yeah but even during that process I feel like that would even help you communicate through your divorce I mean communic communication it's so simple but it's it's it's it ruins the lack of it ruins so many relationships friendships marriage children and parents I mean it just lack of communication it blows my fucking mind sometimes right like how do you not just say how you feel so here's the thing right because I I love to talk about my feelings love to but then sometimes I just want peace.

Speaker 1 25:31

I choose peace over wanting communication because sometimes I'm just so exhausted or so busy that I don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 2 25:46

You know it's gonna be a problem when you bring that subject up and do you want to go through that emotion.

Speaker 1 25:51

Right. Right because it's you're not bringing it up just to have a conversation you're bringing it up because you want something fixed right and so sometimes I have issues that I want to talk about and I'm just like you know what no I choose peace or I'm just gonna stay busy because I'm not ready to do the work I'm not I don't have the time it takes time yeah and energy and right now it doesn't fit into my schedule so I'm sorry I did not plan this six weeks ago we're not having this discussion.

Speaker 2 26:23

Correct this is not on my calendar on the calendar yeah I wonder if some people do that you know what I mean like what put yeah put that shit on the calendar like like put talking time on the calendar? Yeah I wonder I wonder if they're like like we need to talk about this all right we're gonna six weeks from now on Monday night at seven o'clock we're gonna have this discussion I wonder could you imagine that maybe that works for some people maybe because then they can push it push it aside excuse me they can push it aside right and be like I don't have to think about that now we can so because again so many life happens and I don't think like just like I mentioned right so you're planning for dinner.

Speaker 1 27:06

You're like okay we're finally going for dinner that morning the kids are absolutely nuts take out all your energy then you go to work have a horrible day at work right take their calls and the baby's got 103 fever. Right and so your plans change right and here you are your plan for your b babysitter and your babysitter is coming because you don't want to cancel and now you're going for the with all that happening this is not going to be a reconnecting moment. It's probably going to be a venting moment like a shit show with your husband sitting across from you or your wife you know and it's not going to be what you wanted it to be. And then you're gonna bring up more problems because whatever happened today just all right you know what let's just threw it up on the table. Yeah because you're so angry and because you're exhausted and so I feel I don't think people plan.

Speaker 2 28:01

I don't know I'm I do think people plan date nights you know but I don't think they plan you know let's talk let's talk about it maybe that should be a priority right like maybe every other Friday should be date night and there's absolutely no way that's canceled unless that's what we do. Unless there's 103 temperature you know that's what we do.

Speaker 1 28:19

And it it does get cancelled mostly by me because I'm just exhausted or I'm just not in the mood or things happen that I'm just I can't do it. You know but we do date night in-house because we just don't have that village because of me. But we every Friday it's date night and we order food and we have meal together and sometimes talks just watch TV whatever the case may be but it's just the two of you the kids are in bed and you make that time. And it's but it's at home. Yeah that's okay and oh I'm fully okay with that because going out you have to get ready all that's stressful get a babysitter stressful. Yeah no I love it. God forbid you go out into your community make friends make eye contact.

Speaker 2 29:02

No life's too tiring sometimes Friday night at home seems like a beautiful day night.

Speaker 1 29:06

Yeah and sometimes it turns out to be a Saturday and sometimes it's a Sunday because I push it forward because and I think we've all gone through that you know I think Juan thinks I'm just it's only me but I think that a lot of women it's like you know it comes to that point and you're dragging it because it's you're just mentally not there.

Speaker 2 29:25

It's not because you don't want that reconnection with your husband you just want to be alone definitely because you don't it's not because of that and it I'm gonna refer to it like this right I really want to go for a run. I really want to go for a run but I'm too tired I'm too exhausted. But sometimes I just put my shoes on last night I just put my running shoes on and I only ran two miles but oh my god it was amazing that I did it. But it's you know how many nights I didn't put my shoes on? The 10 before it yeah you know what I mean so it's like you it's not that you don't want to connect with your husband it's not that you don't want the intimacy it's just that you don't have the fucking time or you're exhausted and you have this whole argument with yourself in your brain it takes a lot.

Speaker 1 30:05

And you have to like sometimes it's like I know it's coming up and I'm dragging it in my head. Not because I don't want to be within not because I don't want to have dinner not because I don't want to reconnect or be intimate no it's just I just want to be alone I literally just want to do scroll on my phone be by myself without anybody needing anything from me.

Speaker 2 30:26

That's it I call that I call that touchdown.

Speaker 1 30:29

Yeah especially when you have little little ones or is there a word for like mentally touched out everything.

Speaker 2 30:35

I just called it touched out like I couldn't hear one more story about your job. I don't want my I love my kids but I just don't want them needing one more thing tonight nine o'clock at night and he's still talking about his day nobody's asked me about mine and you know what I mean but how is it like that's the truth yeah that's what I'm hearing in my head and so I get it the the just leave me alone like even if I'm not doing anything looking at a mindless TV show just stop talking to me. Yeah don't touch me don't talk to me maybe that's why maybe that's why you're the worst so what are you telling me I'm about to be the worst oh my gosh no no no listen it takes a lot happens it it takes it there's a lot of things involved when you get to that point but but I am curious for for for everybody who's like you know listening or watching yeah listening or watching I'm just wondering like did counseling save your marriage or did it pull it apart just delay your divorce delay the inevitable but I'm curious to hear from people who maybe it saves their marriage your stomach is grumbling so loud it's so loud you think that's gonna be sorry I don't think so I did not eat my breakfast my apologies see we're always just doing something I didn't eat my breakfast today and my stomach's telling me it's time to eat yeah so with that said or I get hungry we don't want that no yeah so you know what you're you're maybe your marriage could benefit from counseling maybe it doesn't but you're not alone you are not alone and you are not done until next time bye