Marriage vs Divorce: When Do You Stay and When Do You Leave?

In this episode of She’s Not Done, Andrea and Kouelee explore marriage and divorce as two sides of the same coin—how relationships can start with connection and slowly shift into distance, resentment, or clarity about leaving.

They talk openly about what it looks like when a marriage enters a “roommate phase,” where couples are living together but no longer emotionally connected. From communication breakdowns to emotional and physical disconnect, they unpack how relationships don’t usually fall apart overnight—they fade through stages.

The conversation also dives into the reality of divorce: not as failure, but sometimes as peace, clarity, and rebuilding. They discuss what it feels like to create a new home dynamic, focus on the kids, and rediscover stability after leaving a relationship that no longer works.

A big part of the episode focuses on children—staying for them versus leaving for them—and how both decisions come with emotional weight and long-term impact. They also touch on how judgment from others often makes it harder for people to speak honestly about what they’re going through.

At its core, this episode asks the hard questions: When is it time to stay and work through it, and when is it time to walk away?

No matter where you are in your journey—married, divorced, or somewhere in between—you’re not alone in asking those questions.

You might be married. You might be divorced.
But you’re definitely not done.



Timestamps

00:00 – Intro + Welcome Back
Meet the hosts: “Still married” vs “still divorced” and setting up the conversation.

02:10 – What Makes Marriage Feel Good (Team Dynamic)
Being polar opposites, balancing each other, and why “being a team” matters.

05:40 – Dating, Early Relationship Memories & Evolution
Workplace memories, early relationship dynamics, and how people change over time.

08:30 – What Divorce Feels Like: Peace vs Chaos
Divorced perspective on peace, clarity, and emotional relief after leaving.

11:20 – Home, Safety, and Creating Stability for Kids
Why creating a safe home environment becomes a core focus after separation.

14:50 – The Divorce Process: Trying Everything First
Emotional breakdown of trying, failing, and knowing when enough is enough.

18:10 – Roommate Phase in Marriage
When couples become coexisting roommates instead of connected partners.

22:00 – Emotional vs Physical Connection in Relationships
Different needs in intimacy, communication gaps, and mental connection importance.

25:30 – Unconditional Love & Relationship Expectations
What unconditional love means (and what it doesn’t), and marriage expectations.

29:00 – Kids, Staying vs Leaving, and Breaking Cycles
How children impact decisions and shifting perspectives on staying “for them.”

34:10 – Judgment, Advice, and Why People Struggle to Open Up
Friendship support, judgment around divorce, and learning not to project.

38:20 – Closing Thoughts: Marriage, Divorce & “Not Done”
Final reflections: love, growth, and the reminder that you’re still not done.

Thank you for being here! And remember, you are NOT alone and you are Not done.

xxx Andrea & Kouelee

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I know we went through a roommate phase where the longer you delay fixing that issue, the longer you become roommates.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

And you're just coexisting in the same house.

SPEAKER_06 0:14

So I went through that. I know what the feeling that you're talking about, and then tried to correct it, and then I still didn't like, and then I was still like, no, this is definitely not. I hope I'm sure there's people out there that go through that fight and come back around, which I think is a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Hi guys, welcome back to She's not Done. I'm your host, Cory. I'm your host, Andrea.

SPEAKER_07 0:44

Still married. I'm still divorced. Maybe 26th.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

May 2026.

SPEAKER_06 0:53

I think I'm always gonna be divorced, Glory.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

I think so. Well, well, fitting with today's topic. So today we'll be talking about marriage and divorce, right? And how both of them basically are the same side of the same coin. One just led to divorce. So same issues basically that you're going through in a marriage versus divorce. Well, I guess we're about to find out, right? Because I'm not divorced, so I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:30

Life. Lifing, whether you're married or divorced. Yeah. Raising kids whether you're married or divorced. Yeah. Right? So I'm gonna ask you a question first, though.

SPEAKER_07 1:43

What's the one thing you well not the one thing, but what are you sound like you're about to give me a sales pit. What's the one thing?

SPEAKER_06 1:52

What are your needs and wants, Corley? No, I'm kidding. What's the one thing you love about being married to Juan?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

I think what I love about being married to Juan is that he completes the side of me that I don't have or that I have and don't decide to show. And that's to be extremely laid back, funny, and I'm I'm funny.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

You are funny.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

But just when I don't want to be funny, he's funny. When I when I'm touched out, he wants to be with the girls. And he takes on that role of all right, I'm jumping in. Like she's done for the He recognizes it. Yeah. That's why you're still married. So I think that's what I love the most is that we are so so different. We couldn't be more polar opposite. But we come together as one. At the end of the day, when you put me and him in a salad bowl, we turn into a salad mix. That is so cheesy and ridiculous. But it's true. But basically, if you put flour and an egg together, we turn into a pancake. You know what I mean? I do. I do.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

And Lulu is the butter and Sophia's the sugar, and it's just the work and we turn into a cake or whatever a pancake. It just works together. I think we're okay, puzzle pieces. That's better.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

That's better. That's probably more that people can relate to, especially if people don't eat pancakes. You're gonna be like, ugh.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Oh, what about if they don't do puzzles?

SPEAKER_06 3:34

But I you know it's funny because I remember when you first started dating. Oh god. Like I have a visual of it. I have a visual of it. Yeah. Tell me about that. I'm at the the the reception area. And he would, whenever you were talking to me, he would come and hover.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:50

Because you hadn't told anybody, and I was like, hmm, yeah. And then you'd get all, you know, I'm at work. Yeah. I've always been like that. Yeah. Well, you're very professional. And then I feel like you have this demeanor about you, like at work, you're at work.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

It takes a lot to crack that. But when you're at home, you are funny. You are funny. And I love watching you and watch. You are definitely not funny at work. No. No.

unknown 4:26

No.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Um but yeah, that's what uh that's what you love about being married.

SPEAKER_06 4:33

You work together as a team.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

What do you love about being divorced?

SPEAKER_06 4:38

Where do I start?

SPEAKER_07 4:43

Oh, I can joke now, it's fine. My shame and guilt have left me.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

But generally, like so here's the thing, right? Because I don't fantasize about being divorced, but I do fantasize about being alone.

SPEAKER_06 4:58

I guess I I need the I took my fantasy and I made it happen. There you go.

SPEAKER_07 5:03

Seeing the goals through, seeing it through till the end. Yes. Listen, when I put my mind to something, I follow through.

SPEAKER_06 5:12

No, but I love that for you. That like you love being married, you love being married, and you're a team.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

So here's the thing. I don't I don't know if I love being married because I think that in order to love something, it's constant happiness. That's how I see it, right? But marriage is fucking hard. It's it's a full-time job, ups and downs, lows and lows, highs and highs. Yeah. So I don't know if I love being married, but I do love who I'm married to.

SPEAKER_06 5:44

Oh, I love that. Yes. Yeah. I think about being divorced, uh, it's just really peaceful.

SPEAKER_05 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:53

I just feel at ease. And I'm at a point where all the things I was doing when I was married, I'm doing now I'm divorced. I just don't have to like cater to someone else. I don't have to worry about what someone else is thinking or feeling or their needs. I worry about my kids. Yeah. I take care of my house. Which you always have. And I've always done that. That's just that's just naturally in me. And I'm really good at a lot of things, but I I'm I'm really good at being their mom. I'm just it I am, and I feel confident in that, and I love them. And I know everyone loves their kids, right? But I just I love my house. I love how it feels when I walk in the door, I love how it feels when I wake up.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

I I have to say to that point, your house has always been been a home to me. And I remember from even when I was living down the road, I felt like I was just walking into my childhood friend's home. Like it that's the feeling, like it was just that's I would always put my feet on the couch. I've never worried about oh, I can't touch this or this, or I love that. I've from the moment that I walk into your house, it felt a home. It's it's it's a safe place.

SPEAKER_06 7:16

Yeah, that makes me feel so happy because I strive to make sure my kids never know what it's like to not feel that. So to hear it from an outside, because it's my home and I love my home and I love my kids, but to hear it from like someone who visits or comes in and says like your home is warm and welcoming and safe, safe for me is huge. And I hope, you know, I hope every kid that walks in my house feels safe and loved and at home.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:47

And that's that's what I love about my house. And that's what I love about not living with anybody but my kids.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

I think that your house is gonna be the house when you're well, your kids are obviously, you know, teenagers and all that, but when the get-togethers are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_06 8:06

The kid so they have sleepovers, the girls come. I mean it all different girls, and there's a nice group of them, and they come and they and they they're there, I can see that they're happy and content, and their parents know they're safe in my house. Yeah. And that that just that means everything to me. Everything I I didn't have growing up. I I that's what I've always tried to achieve for my kids.

SPEAKER_05 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:33

But yeah, you know what? I I think we always talk about it. It's hard not to talk about it. The divorce process was difficult, it's uncomfortable, it's emotional. When you get over it and the other side, there's still stuff you have to deal with, but I wouldn't change it. I would not change any of that for the peace and the comfort and the love that's in my house and the light and just the energy. Yeah. It's everything. I will say during marriage, I always, when we talk, when I talk about this outside of here, I always say to people, like, they'll they'll talk to me about their marriage or or divorce. You'd be surprised when you start talking about divorce. How many people are like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Because you're making it a safe place to do so because you're sharing and you're making it less shameful, scary. Yes, yeah. You know why? I think if if if and I will say this. And you have made it easy easier on me, even though I'm not going through the divorce. But if I had when Juan and I were grazing divorce, I always thought about you and how you've navigated everything and you're okay, and that gave me peace that I know I will be okay because of you, even though I'm obviously not going through that process, but when it was discussions, like I would think about you and how you're doing everything.

SPEAKER_06 10:10

And obviously, I knew it was hell, yeah, but I knew that there was a light at the end, and not every and everyone's is different, right? Like everyone's separation and divorce is different. There's some people out there that get on amazing. I have friends that like communicate and co-parent, and it's a beautiful thing. And then I have people that I know people that can't even have protective order on their ex-spouses. So it can be anything, and everyone's everyone's experience, I think, is different no matter what. But I will say having other women talk to me and be there for me, and me being able to set say like we can do it, we can get through it, makes a difference. It does make a difference in people's lives, and people do come to, and I will say this I think you should absolutely do everything in your power to try and make it work. I don't mean in abusive cases, things like that, but I mean if you're like unhappy and you've you're trying all these things, I just before you make that choice and before you take that step, I made that step knowing that I was, I had tried everything. There's not one night that I lie down that I go, I could have done better. There isn't. And I think that's what got me through as well. Like knowing that I had tried everything I could possibly do to make it work, and it and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:30

And that's okay. But there is shame and there is guilt, and you have to work through it. You have to work through it.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. I think that when I think about marriage and divorce as two sides of the same coin, I think about the phases that we all go through, right? But one could lead into a divorce, right? So for example, the roommate phase, right? So I think every marriage, every relationship, maybe not relationship, but every marriage, I think, goes through a phase where husband and wife become roommates.

SPEAKER_06 12:10

The intimacy is not there.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Not only that, or well, yeah, not just, but I think there's more than just intimacy. The connection, mental connection. I don't know if you went through a roommate. I know we went through a roommate phase where the longer you delay fixing that issue, the longer you become roommates.

SPEAKER_06 12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

And you're just coexisting in the same house.

SPEAKER_06 12:36

So I went through that. I know what the feeling that you're talking about, and then tried to correct it, and then I still didn't like it. And then I was still like, no, this is definitely not. I hope I'm sure there's people out there that go through that phase and come back around, which I think is a beautiful thing. Yeah. Because marriage is hard. Yeah. And and I'm sure there's phases that people go through, right? That that and they get through the other end and they're like, oh, we made it. It's not like you said, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah, but it could be a role curse, like you said. It could be where you've tried and all right, it worked for a little bit, or you've tried and then oh no, you've realized okay, no.

SPEAKER_06 13:11

Like I can't.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Like for us, it was after we basically spoke about divorce probably four or five years, I would say it took us.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Yeah, work, roommate phase, hate, love, care, no care, kids, no kids.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

It took us all that, and still we're a work in progress. And I I that's how hard it was. It was not from okay, from today to tomorrow, we we spoke about divorce, and okay, we did we realized we didn't want a divorce and then we're fixed the next day. No, after that, it was a good solid well, before go getting to that place, it was probably a year, and then after that, three to three to four years to get back to.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

I think marriage is not about getting everything right. I think it's about realizing that you have to love them unconditionally. And if you love them unconditionally, you can work through those problems. If you do not love them unconditionally, that's my personal opinion. I I was not loved unconditionally, and I did not love unconditionally. I love my kids unconditionally, but recognizing that and knowing that is huge because all of the things that bothered me wouldn't have bothered me if I loved unconditionally.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:39

And for me, the intimacy is the mental connection. It is the physical connection, it is that connection with my partner. That's what I find intimate that leads to intimacy. Like I don't want to be, I have to have a mental connection for a physical connection. So if if we're not on the same page and we're not even agreeing on the basics of life, yeah, I'm I'm the same.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

I can't just be intimate, and that's where it's completely different. I think maybe most men are like that, and I don't want to generalize it, but they don't need a mental connection, right? Intimate.

SPEAKER_06 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Me, however, I do.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

And the small things. The small things to me are everything. Right?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Small things do matter. Small things are big. Because the small small things that are ignored add up to big things. Right.

SPEAKER_06 15:33

And then in a map, like, how do you cope in a crisis? I kick into let's find a solution, right? In a crisis. Right. But if you have if so if you have one person that if both of you panic or both of you get angry, there's no but if one of you everything's, I don't know, everything's like ebbs and flows. Like so if one is having a bad day and you're having a good day and you even it out, and and vice versa, that's a wonderful marriage. But if it's if it's if you're not connecting and you're constantly on the you're constantly the person that's finding the solution, and they're constantly the person that's like finding the problem, that's I feel like that was actually one of my questions.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

One of my questions was Can marriage stay healthy if both are surviving instead of connecting? And surviving in different I mean, from the experience, no.

SPEAKER_06 16:32

Yeah. Not my experience. And I guess it's what you're willing to what you're willing to put up with, what you're willing to settle for, what you're willing to say. I seen it like this. I'm gonna do a gambling analogy, right? So if you're at the the the table and you're betting and you're losing and you're betting and you lose it, when do you stand up and say, All right, enough is enough? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna win. I know that sounds silly, but in your marriage, you keep trying, you keep trying, you keep trying, nothing's changing. And if you're hearing the same thing and nothing's changing, I I can't live like that. It was, I felt like it was groundhog day. Same conversation, same disappointment, same resentment, same anger. Like, come on, I can't live like that. And I know people can. And maybe after five years of that, you come through and the sun is shining and something clicks and it's a wonderful, beautiful thing. And I for those people, congratulations, I just couldn't do it anymore. Yeah, I didn't, I I enough was enough.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

I'm trying to think as to like how many years did it take you to right because obviously you got married at some point and then your divorce was good. I mean your your marriage, I'm sorry, was good. Your divorce was good. Your marriage was good, but at some point it started to just go down, right? How long from the point where it started going down? How long did it take to then get divorced?

SPEAKER_06 18:07

I think I left mentally a long time before I physically left. And I think a lot of women can relate to that. I think I tried and tried. So I that's why that's why when I put my head on the pillow at night, I know I tried everything. Yeah. Everything I could try. Everything, every step I could take, I took. And when it wasn't working anymore, it wasn't working anymore. Yeah. To be to be the person I'm supposed to be, and to be to show up, and to be present and to know that every decision I make comes from my from a clear mind and a calm heart. And that is why so many other things don't bother me anymore. Yeah. And I feel lucky and I feel blessed, and I have a lot of really good people around me that helped me during that process and after the process and every day since. And I'm grateful for that. But I know that's why I say I personally tried everything before I made that decision. And I love marriage. I think marriage is a beautiful thing. And I also think that if you're unhappy, it's a you can start again and you can walk away. And you don't have to stay anywhere that you're unhappy. That you're unhappy at. That was one thing for the girls. That was for the girls. I got to the point where I didn't want them striving for that relationship in their life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

I think a lot of parents still struggle. And so going back to the same side of the same coin where, especially when you have children, you as much as you want to stay in a relationship, and I've said it since Juan and I before even before Juan and I got together, I said that, and people would look at me so crazy when I would say, if I'm married and I have children and my husband cheats on me, I am out. I'm not thinking twice. I do not care because I don't want my kids to think this is okay. Right? That's just my opinion. Right. But at the same time, right? Because you don't want them to see that you stayed in a relationship that was abusive. And that's why people will look at me crazy. Oh, but when you have kids, you should try to make it work. You should be and you should be cherished. Because you have kids, you should try to make it work. No. To me, something like that, and that's just my opinion. Other people view it differently. If you had cheated on me before we had kids, maybe I would have stayed with you in a sense.

SPEAKER_06 20:49

Right. That's everyone's individual decision.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

But if I have children, that makes it easier for me to leave you. Yeah. Much eas anything that happens, it makes it easier, not harder. That's just my opinion. Right. Obviously, it's hard. It's a hard decision to make. But the moment that I have that I put children into this world, anything that is unhealthy for them to see and obviously Juan and I have had our ups and downs of unhealthy, but we work through it. And I want them to see that you can fight through it. Yes. But if it's truly at a point where you're unhappy constantly and this is what they're dealing with, I don't want them to see that. Just as much as if I cheated on Juan, I wouldn't want him to stay with me just because of the kids. No. Stay with me for me. Like, don't stay with me because of the kids. I feel like I see so much trauma of parents staying together. And then the moment the children are out of the house, that's it. Marriage is over. Yeah, that does happen a lot, doesn't it? It does.

SPEAKER_06 21:57

I will say I stayed for a while because I I didn't want to, I'm gonna, I'm gonna repeat the playback in my brain. I don't want to do that to my kids. Yeah. I don't want them to grow up like I grew up. I don't want to put them through that. I don't want them to have to choose. Blah blah blah blah. That is my that was my replay in my brain for years. And then it got to the and it shifted. Again, there's that switch. It shifted. I don't want my girls to think they get they're stuck. I don't want my girls to think they can't get out of something. I don't want my girls to think that this is what they should strive for in a relationship. Those it so it it shifted for me, and that was then the replay. And once that replayed, that was it. It's the kids. You stay for them, and then this is me, right? I stayed for them and I left for them. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

I think that you know, and and everyone is different, everyone will make different decisions, and and what's important is that and I've that's also something I've always been a very big advocate of. If a friend came to me about an issue that they're going through in the relationship, cheating, no cheating, it's just regular prompts, whatever the case may be. I have never judged. You're gonna make the decision that makes you happy. I'm here for you no matter what. But there's so many, and I think that's why it's also hard for us to open up because other people make it so hard to open up to. Well, because so many people judge you for your decisions, they're my decisions. And so to me, I want that friend that I can cry to about the same situation over and over and over and over again, and they are staying here. Yeah. They're still here.

SPEAKER_06 23:54

My narrative might change. I might be like, I'm here for you, I'm here for you, I'm here for you. And then I may be like, let's start trying to find a solution. Yeah. You just need love and support in those moments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:06

Love and support and and no judgment. And I think that's difficult for some people not to judge or not to be controlling.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Well, the thing is, I think that also some people not judge, but some people I think are so adamant about you need to leave this person because they care so much.

SPEAKER_06 24:23

And they are genuinely worried, right? And they and you can see sometimes like the general frustration, like, oh my god, you could do so better. Why are you dealing with this?

SPEAKER_02 24:31

But what's for you to to tell me what's better for me? Yeah, you know, but it it's easy. And and I've had that with close friends where, you know, I wanted something so good for her, and it was work-related, not relationship. But I was pushing her, go, you need to get this. She didn't want this, but she really truly didn't want it. But I was getting frustrated because she didn't want it and because I could see so much better for her. Yeah. You know, but she didn't want it. And it was to a point where I'm just like, what is wrong with me? It's not because I want this for my life that she wants this for her life. She might have wanted the life I have. Right. But here I am, and I was pushing it, and I called her and I was like, I'm so sorry. I told her, I said, I am so sorry.

SPEAKER_06 25:16

Your self-reflection, I'm gonna keep saying it. It's it's it's what builds long-lasting trusting relationships, whether it's your marriage, whether it's friendships that you've kept close to you, your self-reflection is everything. Because if you can't say sorry and you can't say, you know what, in this situation I was wrong, how are you ever gonna, how are you ever gonna level up?

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:45

Yeah. And be a good friend. Because we're not always right. I'm not always right. I mean, I'm most no, I'm kidding. I'm really not always right. Yeah. And and learning to apologize. My kids have taught me that.

unknown 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:57

You know, like I've had to apologize a few times.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, I mean, I've I that's a big one for me. Apology. Apologizing to your kids, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

Yeah, you have to. Have to. And the same as the the marriage, right? When you have an argument, it's in it's okay. It's okay. Well, not the not the apology. What I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

I don't remember the last time I apologized, but not to cut you off. There is there are acts of apologies, if that makes sense. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 26:28

You'll cook. Look, I made you dinner. Um poisoned. I don't think. No, what I was gonna say is when you do argue, it's good that the kids see it's okay the kids see you argue as long as they see you make up. Yeah. In my opinion. Because life isn't always perfect. And I know we want it to be perfect for our kids. Yeah. And we want to like not have them.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

You want to heal from your trauma from the past, right? Come from a broken home, right? And so in a fight, I resort to let me get the fuck out of here. Meaning, like, I don't want this. I want this. I'm uncomfortable. I mean, not that I talk about divorce like that, I don't throw the word out like that at all, but this is me. I just I need to get out. I because that's what I've seen growing up. Juan in a fight, he just wants to make everything better. And not in a he's not gonna sit there and apologize either.

SPEAKER_06 27:22

Right. He wants a resolution though.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Well, he just wants everything to be back to normal, and he just sometimes wants to avoid the conflict because he comes from a home that's together, that's not broken.

SPEAKER_06 27:36

I'm gonna touch on the broken. So I don't like that. The term the term because I fixed my home. Yeah, it's light now, yeah. The energy's good, it's peaceful. You know what I mean? So, like my kids' home is to me fixed.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

So was it broken for you? Or was it broken for your children too?

SPEAKER_06 28:07

It was broken for all of us. It was broken for me, it was broken for my ex, it was broken for the kids, it was broken for the fucking dogs, it was broken. It was broken, yeah, and there was no fixing it. There was no fixing the marriage. Yeah, it was fixing. Yeah, but it was it it was broken, now it's not. And that's what I want to teach them. You don't have to stay because of some expectation of society. You don't have to leave. Just the same as if someone cheats. You don't have to leave because of expectations of society. You make those choices, right? Like every choice should be your own. But so when you say broken, I just don't I don't, it's you know, my my mom and dad weren't together either. But I wouldn't consider me grown up in a broken home.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Yeah, neither did I.

SPEAKER_06 28:57

Listen, I'm I guess because of the to be fair, my upbringing was in was was a little uh out there. But I got some real good things from it. I got some real bad things from it, but I got some good things from it. So I just I get it why people say that, like, oh, the marriage broke or the marriage broke up, but I feel like my house is is peaceful and happy and well I love that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, also another thing I want to mention when it comes to that is Juan has always mourned the person I used to be before kids, before marriage. I don't know if you've ever heard it, but when when when guys joke around, it's like, oh yeah, now you're married, you know? Basically things are not the same or wait till you get married.

SPEAKER_06 29:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

But and and we've had those conversations where you know he's like, Oh, I just wanted to be I just wanted where how it was before we were married when we first met. That person is long gone, not in a bad way. I've evolved, I've I've grown. You don't want even though the coolie you met was the most fun, most outgoing, all that. I'm not saying you don't want that, but I didn't have any responsibilities, I didn't have any kids to that looked up to me and to how I was handling life. It was just me. I was the judge of me by myself, nobody else. So that person is long gone, is never coming back. I think he misses the feeling of everything was carefree in a sense.

SPEAKER_06 30:47

Yeah, no worries, no mortgage. He also doesn't date you like he dated you before you were married either. Yeah. So, you know, yes, you've evolved, but also I think if you want what you if you want more of that, you have to put in more effort. Yeah. And I'm not saying one doesn't put effort in, I'm just saying in general, like I will say a huge part of the breakdown uh was also the lack of dating. 100%. The lack of dating. If I did not plan it, it did not happen. And I and listen, I stopped planning. And women don't leave for someone else, women leave for themselves. Yeah. So I eventually I stopped doing those things, and those things never happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

I think that's, I mean, you bring up a good point. I think that, and that's something that's really big for him is to keep dating. He's right to me. And it's not that it's that big, I love that. It's just that I carry a different load in my head that it's not as easy for me to make it happen. And I know people will probably argue and say, Yeah, it is that easy. It's that easy. You just make the time. Well, guess what? In my head, sometimes there's I've overbooked myself.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

Also, the remember the mental load, right? So they can they can disconnect, right? Like, let's just say Juan can disconnect and be like, this is mine in your time. Yeah, we're gonna enjoy this. You're still thinking about, oh my god, did I get Sophia's pajamas on? Is the babysitter okay? Did she go down? Oh my god, did she give her the milk?

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yeah. But you know what is good about Juan is he knows that. He knows that if he doesn't get the right person to be with the girls, I'm not gonna be able to relax. Okay. He knows that. And he knows that it will bother me. I'll constantly check, like the when they're in bed, like the the camera, I'll constantly check. He'll know he knows that if he doesn't have the right person in place when we go out, I'm not gonna be able to enjoy myself.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

Reason number 78 of why you're still married. Yeah, it's the little things that are big. The little things are big, they're huge.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

But that's why I said that it's I don't love marriage, I love who I'm married to because he's done a 360 from who he used to be. And again, I don't want him to change for me. I want him to change for himself and for the couple for what we're looking for in life. Right. And I have so many things that I need to work on, so many. And you know, it's little by little. I try as as as much as I can, but at the same time, it's that's what I love. It's it's who I'm married to. Marriage itself, I could do without marriage. So could I? Yeah. Well, wish granted. Sorry. You know what I mean? It's it's marriage, I think, is just a piece of paper. It comes with a whole lot of expectations. Oh, yeah. Resentment. Societal expectations.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

It's yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:55

I love seeing that the again, I love marriage and I love I have friends that are happily married and work through stuff. Yeah. But I know it's work. It's it's work. Yeah. I every relationship in your life is work. But marriage is by far one of the hardest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Well, but you know what? So this is what I hate. When people say it shouldn't be that hard.

SPEAKER_06 34:22

That's you know what? I I am so happy for you that yours is not that hard and that you you just glow. That's amazing, right? That is amazing. But for everyone, it's not the fucking same.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:33

Sometimes it's hard. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

And so what do you say to that? It shouldn't be that hard.

SPEAKER_06 34:39

Well, we'll I'm so happy for you that yours is not hard. Kudos.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

And and who are you? I'm fucking stuck sometimes. Yeah, and you don't know what I went through. My my baggage that I brought into my relationship and his baggage that he brought into his relationship, maybe you had none of that. And that's great. Yeah. I would love that. But unfortunately, I've had we've had baggage and we have to deal with it. We have to work through it.

SPEAKER_06 35:07

And I think we always go back to the same thing. You two completely different people with two completely different ways figuring out how to be together.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

And that's that's hard work. Yeah. And also another thing that I love about marriage is that when my kids are no longer at home, if they ever decide to leave, the person that I'm left with, I'm completely okay with. Yeah. I think about it. Like I know I won't be bored. No. You know, bec just because I know how he is and he loves to just do things and I know he'll let me do whatever I want to do as far as if I have hobbies, traveling, whatever the case may be, but we'll always find back to one another and live a good life. That I love. You know? Yeah. And one of the questions that I had is do you think that people leave marriage too quick or do you think that the old generation stayed too long? Oh, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_06 36:18

I think my opinion, the old generation, I think are I think that their their traditional marriage was different and maybe not as stressful. Right? Like back then, you could have one person go to work full-time and the other one at home and cover the bills and have a good life.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:41

I don't feel like that is the reality anymore.

SPEAKER_05 36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:45

So you have new stresses of both parents working, both parents carrying the financial load, still not having enough money, trying to raise kids, trying to pay for daycare. And if one does stay at home, now you're struggling financially. Like there's so many other aspects of life and marriage now that I don't think that can be answered in one in one answer. I think that we've made it less shameful to leave now. I think years ago, women stayed. I mean, listen, did you know that like women couldn't even buy a fucking house without their husband? We're not there, thank God. But I think that I don't want to ever judge somebody for leaving their marriage too soon. If you're unhappy and you leave your marriage, there's a reason. And who says too soon?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I mean, wasn't it Kim Kardashian that was married for what 17 hours? What was it? Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:44

Maybe she was like, you know, hey, red flags, I didn't see that yesterday. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Who knows? Who cares? Right? Yeah, but that to me is interesting. I would and and you know, I'm sure you find other reasons why online, but yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_06 38:00

Maybe maybe it was a spur of the moment. Maybe I don't feel like I will ever get married again because I don't I don't feel like there's a I don't feel like there's an emotional benefit for it. Yeah. I think it's just a title. And I know that people are gonna like not agree with that. Yeah, that's okay. And it's not because I'm I'm like upset about a divorce. My divorce is done. I'm divorced, I've been divorced a while, you know. I love my life, and I think that's part of it.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

But I wonder then if your marriage didn't end up in divorce. Would you love the would you love divorce? Would you love marriage? Like would you think you would have a different opinion if because me, for example, I'm in a I'm in a marriage.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

I oh, I romanticized marriage because my because of my upbringing, I thought the right thing to do, right? And I don't know why. I wasn't raised like that. I was I just wasn't. People around me wasn't rushing to get married. Growing up, it wasn't like it just wasn't priority in my upbringing. I never grew up going, I can't wait to get married, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like it just, I didn't think that was a thing, but I got to a certain age where and I moved to America and I was like, oh, we're dating, we're getting engaged, we're getting married. Like this is the normal process. I even, you know, went to church, got baptized. All of these things I thought were what was important to raise a family, that that that was what was needed to raise a family. Now I'm like, is it fuck? So I romanticized marriage, is what I'm trying to say. Like, I wanted that, I wanted the marriage, I wanted the kids, and I wanted this for my, you know, the perfect picture white picket fence.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

I think we all do somewhere or another.

SPEAKER_06 40:06

I just I didn't get to that until I was in my twent, late 20s.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

You know, well I feel like it's like, you know, you you get there and you're like, damn, that's a fraud. Because you do like you do romanticize it. Yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, this is gonna be great. I'm trying meant to the same. Oh my god, I'm gonna have a wife.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

Yeah, yeah. Everything's gonna be great. We're gonna be a team. Yeah. And that is the case. Would I I loved the idea of marriage. I love the idea of mom, dad, and kids. I love the idea of happy family, right? Like that's what I that's what I pictured. And then when I got it, it wasn't what I had pictured. But that also came in time. It was a slow process of like, this is this is the finish and you're like, shit. Yeah. Wait, was this what I was striving for? Somebody lied to me. But now I know why my parents now I know why my parents were the way they were. Like, no, jokes aside. Yeah. It's not for marriage, isn't for everyone. No. So I like how you put it though. You don't love marriage, but you love who you're married to. Yeah. I did not love marriage and I did not love who I was married to anymore.

SPEAKER_07 41:25

So it's not funny.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

But again, you know, you're past that tunnel. It's just what we can laugh about it. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_06 41:34

Yeah. You know, yeah, there was times I I couldn't laugh about it. I was like so struck with fear of everything. And I didn't thank God I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Yeah. So, you know, I would love to know how one thing that you love about marriage.

SPEAKER_06 41:53

And I would like to know what's the one thing you love about being divorced or single. And with that, you know, you might be married.

SPEAKER_07 42:05

You might be divorced. And you're definitely not done. Might be a lot. But you're not done. I'm out.