Are We Raising Independent Kids... or Dependent Adults?

As parents, our instinct is to protect our children. But when does protecting them start holding them back?

In this episode, we dive into one of the biggest parenting challenges—raising confident, independent kids while still wanting to hold onto their childhood. We share honest stories about school buses, learning to ride bikes, Montessori education, letting go of control, teaching confidence, financial independence, and the little parenting moments that shape our children into capable adults.

We also open up about our own parenting mistakes, the fears we've accidentally passed down to our daughters, and why independence isn't just about tying shoes—it's about teaching kids to advocate for themselves, trust themselves, and believe they're capable.

Whether you're raising toddlers, school-age kids, or teenagers, this conversation will make you think differently about what it really means to prepare our children for the real world.

00:00 – Introduction & today's conversation: Are we raising independent kids?

02:15 – The school bus debate: freedom vs. fear

06:45 – When other kids introduce conversations you're not ready to have

10:10 – Every household teaches independence differently

13:15 – Why I chose Montessori (and why it helped me as much as my kids)

16:20 – Teaching kids to pack their own suitcase

18:45 – Eye contact, ordering food, and building confidence

22:10 – "Do you want me to listen or help you solve it?"

25:20 – Healing our own childhood while raising our children

28:30 – Letting go without letting fear win

31:00 – How overprotection affected my daughter's confidence

33:40 – Learning to ride a bike—and believing she could

36:00 – Life skills vs. academics: What matters most?

38:00 – Teaching financial independence from a young age

40:00 – Final thoughts: Are we preparing our kids for adulthood?

Thank you for being here! And remember, you are NOT alone and you are Not done.

xxx Andrea & Kouelee

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Probably not. I know mine isn't here. But I know for for them that little bit of independence gives them confidence. And with confidence comes love for yourself. So I have to do it. I have to make sure that I don't let my fears interrupt in their upbringing.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

I mean this is big. Because I was dead mom at the park. I barely took Ajana to the park. Number one it was COVID. But I barely took her to the park. Why? Because I was afraid she was gonna get hurt. I was afraid, like I every time. Be careful. Be careful. Every step. Be careful. That's all she heard.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Hi guys, welcome back to She's Not Done. I'm your host, Coley.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I'm your host, Andrea.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

I'm still married. I'm still checking it like it's uh I'm taking away the shame. There's no shame. There should be no shame. Should be okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Um I'm still deep.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

Yes. Actually, that sounds worse, probably that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

You mocking me?

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Um love the conversation that we picked today. Uh talking about if kids we should let our kids be more independent, raising them more independent. Which, you know, I I guess I'll start with the story of Adriana coming off the bus yesterday again after being bullied on the bus.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Again.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

It wasn't resolved.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

It was resolved. This was just another another child. Another child. And first thing she says is, Mommy, I don't want to take the bus anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Luckily, it's the end of the school year. So it doesn't bother me. Either way, it doesn't bother me because as much as I wanted her to love it, I'm completely okay her not loving it and me dropping her off at school until she's 18.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

You know how I feel about this. My I drop my kids, I've dropped my kids.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

I've never wanted to put her on the bus to begin with. Yeah. I did because she wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

She asked to go on the bus. She was extremely excited to go on the bus. And we did when she first started kindergarten. She did it, I think, for two days. Didn't want to. So then we stopped. And then she asked me. I never was gonna ask her again. She asked me. Okay and she said, I want to go back on the bus. So I said, okay. I'm never gonna stand in her way of wanting to be independent. And I know that me not putting her back on the bus until she's ready again is probably going to set her back. But I have extremely the reason why I didn't want to put her on the bus to begin with is because this is the only time where kids are unsupervised because you can't tell me that the bus driver is gonna supervise them.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

No, they could hopefully the bus driver's driving.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Correct. This is the only time where kids can be unhinged without any supervision. I never thought about that. Mixed ages. Yeah. And so that is the time that gives me anxiety because and I've done it. I've let my kid go to school, go on the bus after they've had the most horrible morning. I don't know what my kid is gonna be like on the bus after that. I don't know if my kid is gonna sit there and cry. I don't know if my kid is gonna be there, hopefully obviously not bullying somebody else. I don't know the energy that they're letting off on that bus.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Before and after school. What if you had a horrible day? Then again, after school is that one period where kids are unsupervised until they get home and they could do things that they maybe wouldn't at home. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, I've never thought about the unsupervised bit, and it's so it makes perfect sense. And I don't know why I hadn't thought about it. I always worried about the age difference, right? So, like a kindergartner getting on with third, fourth graders. The way our school district works is it's K through three, four through six. Oh, I love that. Seven, eight is separate, and then high school. So I'll be like my kids have not got on the bus since first grade, maybe even before that. I remember Emily going on for kindergarten, and our neighbor's child was in third grade, and she's the sweetest thing ever. She's after college now. She would get on the bus with her and like looked after her, but then something horrendous happened. Uh, I don't know if it was the end of kindergarten or first grade, but some boy told Emily to suck his dick.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

So what? Yeah. The kid didn't even I'm mortified. I know. No, and I'm a lot calmer about it now because this was what, 10 years ago? But she repeated it, she didn't know what it meant. I don't think the kid knew what it meant. He had older siblings.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

I am absolutely mortified. No, and this is exactly why I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

But my children have not got on the bus since that episode. Arya never got on the bus because I was always at the school or doing something. So she grew up in the school before she even went to the school. And then I sometimes they get the bus home now, but they're they're 12 and 16. Right. So yeah. Oh my gosh, Emily just turned 16. So I know crazy. But so she that when that happened, it was she was six.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Yeah. Adriana's age.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah. So she never got on the bus. I take them every morning. Yeah, and uh now you're definitely not letting me put her on the bus. And again, is just I the kid I don't think knew. I spoke to the school about it, the school addressed it, everybody was mortified.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

But you know, at that point Yeah, again, this is that one time where kids are unsupervised. Yeah. And look, I was a kid once. I was an unsupervised kid once. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Most of the day. I think we have to find a to see the fine line between like overparenting and underparenting. Yeah. Right. But but where is that? And it's different for everyone.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

It is. I mean, some people can't not not put their kids on the bus. They have to. Right. You know what I mean? And so that's hard too. Because right now I have the option. I will take that option. But if I had to, I don't know how I'd feel about that. I don't know. I don't know if it would make me stop my job because I have to, if I'm completely against it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. I mean, listen, today Arya is getting on the bus because she has to. Yeah. She doesn't love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

But again, they're older.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

It's it's they're a little bit they're unfortunately very aware of the world and the things in it. And they probably know more than they tell me. And they've probably learned it on the bus.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

I mean, I I think that this is just what you're saying that they've learned things from other people. And I've just had that conversation with Cynthia because an incident happened with her son. And so it was very hard for her because that child shared something about transitioning from a girl to a boy. And her son handled it amazingly. But she was just upset because it's something she wanted to have that conversation about. Oh, okay. So I think that a lot of times, you know, we we try to prepare our kids for things that we don't want to happen to them, and then it just happens that somebody will have that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah. I think everything should be age appropriate, right? But again, that age appropriate is different for some kids. Yeah. Some kids five and six completely understand exactly what you're talking about. And some other kids don't even know what that is until they're in in high school. I don't think either of those things, I think it depends on your family.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

You know, I think it depends on on your environment, you know. Like for me, that doesn't even affect like that doesn't even cross my mind. Yeah. It doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Like well, it's not that it matters, but it matters when when you as a parent wanted to have that conversation with your child before. Which is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Everyone's house is different. Yes. For me, I'm like, you know, I don't even know if my kids have ever asked those questions. It's just always been the norm around us because we have such a range of circle that's tight for us, that these like it just doesn't come up.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Yeah. I mean, those are also things that like you said, it it depends on the household, right? It depends on the conversations you're having with your kid. It depends on on all that. Yeah. But I do think that, you know, being raising them to be more independent, that goes with it to let them into a world that will teach them on their own.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And teach some things that maybe you didn't, like you were saying, maybe Cynthia didn't want him to understand that yet.

unknown 9:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Maybe she wanted to be the one to explain it. It's the same, yeah. It's the same as like, if I believe in Santa and another household doesn't, yeah, and they crush it for the kid. Yeah. Like that really sucks. So you have to manage your own household. Like, oh, I'm really sorry, honey. You know what?

SPEAKER_04 9:36

I remember you said, I don't remember what it was, and I think Emmy was maybe five or six, not sure. But I remember specifically we were in your kitchen, and Emily said something about fairies, and I was like, Oh no. And you said, Oh, yeah, we believe in fairies. We believe in fairies. I told you okay. Obviously, I didn't have any kids, right? So it didn't cross my mind to me. I'm like, what are you saying?

SPEAKER_01 10:07

What are fairies?

SPEAKER_04 10:08

What are fairies? Yeah. But I remember still believes in fairies. Yeah. But and now that's me.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah, because you gotta hold on to some magic, and that's me, and that's my house. That there's houses out there that don't believe in lying to children. I do. Oh, the line being told. You start working closed. Yep. I'm sorry, I couldn't get a hold of so-and-so's mom. There's no playdate today. You know what I mean? Like, but I haven't even tried. But but for independence, I try, I love giving my kids independence because I remember how that felt.

SPEAKER_05 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

And I don't want to raise them to not be able to do things, right? Because that's all I'm doing. If I continue to do these things for them, I'm just raising them to rely on someone else consistently. Since they could walk, I have not dressed either of them. Yeah. No joke. They've gone in their own cupboards, they've picked their own clothes. Sometimes you can tell.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

I think that is one independence that I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

No, and I I know a lot of mums that like still pack for their kids. I mean my kids travel all the time. I've not packed for either of them since they were five, six. No joke. What? No joke. I will pack. I used to pack up until last year, I packed a toiletry bag, so I made sure I had like kids' Tylenol, toothbrushes, things like that. But they packed their clothes. I love that. I could never. I'm not packing for three of us. I gotta figure out the house, the dog, my stuff, the car, all the things that are happening. They forget something, or you do check at least.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

No. I do not check. You work five. Five years old.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I swear to God. Do you have underwear? Do you have pajamas? Listen, Aria, she's like a machine when it comes to that. I didn't even have to think about both of them, actually.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Emily's always because you've taught them that way. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

They both have their individual ways of packing, too. It's fantastic. Emily puts her things in little tiny separate containers inside the suitcase. Aria folds everything in sections and puts it in there. Like they have their thing down.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

Yeah, I mean, I do love that. I think that, I mean, look, every household is different. Yeah. I think that one of the reasons I put them in Montessori school, number one, obviously I love their method of teaching independence, and that's what it's all about is teaching the kid to be more independent and free thinking. Correct. I like that. And so I did that obviously because I love that method, but I also did it because I know I have a hard time letting them be independent, and at least someone else will do it. Because to me, it's I want to hold on to mommy, can you tie my shoes? Mommy, can you put this on for me? I want to hold on to that, even though half the time I'm like, do it yourself. Every time she goes to the bathroom, Adriana, I'm done. Coming. Yeah. On my way. Yeah. Wanda will say, Did you poop up pee? Which doesn't matter. He's either way he's going to be.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

He needs to know what he's going into.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Yeah. You know, but it's there's things where I'm just like, okay, like I I tell them or I tell her now, you know, you have to start learning because what if I'm not here? You have to learn how to do it because you're gonna be nervous because she gets nervous asking someone else. I'd rather you learn it and do it than being nervous, and then it doesn't get done properly, you know, because you you don't want to ask someone else.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

So I started really young with them, making sure that they made eye contact with people, like even going out for dinner or for them to order their food. Yeah, that sounds really small and silly. I love that. And I noticed a huge difference when we had COVID, and then and then after we went out for dinner, I noticed my kids weren't making eye contact, and I was like, well, pause the table. I love that. The waitress is right here. You need to look at her when you're talking to her because everyone had got so used to not making eye contact during COVID. Yeah, but yeah, from a real young age. As soon as they could talk, they would order what they want for.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

If I take something from this city, it will be that. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

I mean, listen, I've been out with people who they're all doing for their teenagers.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Okay, yeah, no, I mean I'm again, it's not my household. I'm I'm ordering for a five-year-old and a two-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, but still I could start that young. Yeah, you know, because it gets them to ask for what they want and to to navigate the world, right? But also to advocate for themselves.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Oh yeah. Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

And then if something's wrong, I want them to speak up. Oh yeah. I mean, that I'm big on. Yeah. If you no, like if you if your food comes and it's not what you ordered, yeah. Those small little things, because if you can't do that, how are you gonna tell someone you're making me uncomfortable, you're too close to me? Please don't touch me. Yeah. If you can't say I didn't order frog, you know what I mean? It's like all of these little things are a bigger picture. Yeah, I'm hopeful. Even Emily now, for years during school, if like she's missed a number or the teacher hasn't put something on her results, she'll email the teacher, hey, you had said this, but I've noticed this. Yeah, she advocates for herself. Yeah, and that came with I would advocate and then I would tell her what I'm doing. And then I'd be like, Okay, you need to, well, you need to go. So she would tell me something, you need to go in and speak to your teacher about that. Well, mommy can't. No, you need to go in and speak to your teacher about that. If you still have an issue, then I'll address it.

SPEAKER_04 15:26

But like, I do that too. I I I will tell, I will ask, like, if if if for example she comes home and something happened in the classroom, I will ask her, Do you want me to handle it or do you are you handling it? Yeah, and then she'll tell me, No, I'll handle it. And then she'll say, No, I need help. Then I'll step in.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

But that's a good question to ask. I do ask my kids a lot, more so Aria, like she'll tell me something and I'll say, Do you want me to just listen or do you want me to help you resolve it?

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Yeah, I love that. I've kept doing that ever since you told me.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, because I don't know what I'm going into if you need a like if she has big feelings.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

I said, Do you need a hug or do you want to talk about it? Or do you need some time?

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yes. These are all things I think we were never given the choice of. Yeah. Like you won't allow big feelings.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

But you know what I do remember? I do remember, and and and this is why now I do it, like and and I get upset when Juan doesn't do it. When Adriana has her feelings and she goes upstairs to her room and she shuts the door. I always go upstairs. Because I remember when I was upstairs and I was crying my eyes out, nobody came. Isn't it and it made me I was just looking for the attention. I just wanted attention.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

And my mom didn't come, you know, and it's I'm sure she cared, but she was also probably pissed in that moment that I went off on or got God knows what.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

He had big feelings too.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

Yeah. But now I always go and check on her because I remember that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

You know, and I think she loves it. And then we end up sitting in her bed and we do her activity book, or I just sit there and we just I ask her, Do you want me to bring the music box? you know, right? And we just sit there. She just knows that you're you care. I want her to know that I care because so often she'll like she'll she has really big feelings, Lulu. She really has big feelings to the point where she'll say, I'm leaving the house. She'll open the door and she'll go outside. And then I'll say something like, Don't forget the snake's outside. Because I want her to come back in.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

That's my way of bringing her back in. See now, Sophia's gonna go look for the snake, you know that, right? She was, yeah. She's gonna say, Okay, mommy.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

With with that, it's I remember doing that, you know, and and and I want her to know that I will be very sad if she leaves, that it's okay if she wants to leave.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

I'll tell her, don't forget your jacket. It's cold. Yeah, but I will tell her I will miss you a lot. I will be very sad if you leave because I do remember those things that I wasn't told those things.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

So you want to leave? That's okay. You want to leave? I'll go to a different family. Okay. It hurts.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

No, it does hurt the first time.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

It hurts.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

The second time and the third time it hurts a little less because you start to realize tell her, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

I mean, you'll see if they if they if if they love you the same. That's absolutely fine. Do you think they'll have chicken nuggets? Yeah. You think you'll have the playroom like we have it set up for you? I'll tell her those things. Yeah. I'll think they have a bubba. Yeah. I'll make her feel guilty. But I'm I'm still I'll miss you. Yeah. But it it's it's teaching them independence and and you can go through with your choices, but think about the choice you're making before you're making it, if that makes sense. What you're leaving behind or the words that come out of your mouth that can't be unsaid.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

You know?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

That's all comes with it. Yeah. It's as I get older too, it's letting go a little bit where where, like, for instance, we used to go to the fair together, right? And now they're older and they want to go to the fair with their friends. So then I would go to the fair, but I would sit with like other parents or I'd walk around while they did their thing, but I was there. Yeah. Last year I dropped them off. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, it's uncomfortable for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Why is it uncomfortable?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Because I can think of all the things that are gonna go wrong at that fair. There's gonna be bullies, there's gonna be this, there's gonna be that, they're gonna get separated, the the the ride's gonna break, they're gonna be on it. I mean, I can go through everything. Yeah, I have to release that and let them have their I wonder if our parents had that. Probably not. I know mine didn't. Yeah. But I know for for them, that little bit of independence gives them confidence. Yeah. And with confidence comes love for yourself. So I have to do it. I have to make sure that I don't let my fears interrupt in their upbringing.

SPEAKER_04 20:01

I mean, this is big. Because I was that mom at the park. I barely took Adriana to the park. Well, number one, it was COVID, but I barely took her to the park. Why? Because I was afraid she was gonna get hurt. I was afraid, like I every time, be careful, be careful, every step, be careful. That's all she heard. Yeah, literally, and this is why now at six years old, she doesn't believe in herself. She said the other day to me, she said, I don't believe in myself when I do the monkey bars because I'm afraid I'm gonna fall. That's my fault. Not 100%.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I don't want to tell you it's not because if you if you if that's how you feel those are your feelings and you're having big feelings about it. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

So how do you so now you have to stop? Well, I I started obviously, you know. Once I've realized that the way she is, is because I was always and Juan too. Be careful, be careful. Sophia, what she is falling left and right. It's okay, get up, you're okay. Yeah, but with Adriana, it was very inner bubble.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I know, and during COVID, so you had a lot of fears during that time.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Yeah, it was everything in a bubble, and I I could bubble wrap her.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

And yeah, Emily gets annoyed sometimes because Arya gets a few more freedoms that Emily didn't get till she was older. And I have to explain to Emily, listen, you've basically freed the way for her. Yeah. As a first-time mom, everything I did or everything you did, it's a first time. Yeah, you know, and you survived. And when I finally let you have a sleepover, you survived. And when all these things, so you have to understand that she's gonna get a few of those things a little easier because I'm not as so tightly wound. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

I like that you're having that conversation though, because I know that that I remember my sister saying to my mom that she wasn't allowed to do a lot of the things that I was allowed to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, I think that probably Yeah, it causes resentment towards. Your sibling. Yeah. And I don't want that for them. Listen, if you're going to resent them, resent them for something on your own terms, not because of something I did.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

You know? So I'm like, no, this is, and it and it's true with the second one that like it's it's a little bit easier to, but then you also, she's my youngest.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

But like when I see her do something independently and her confidence builds, or like she doesn't want to do something, I don't want to go, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. Listen, just try it. And then she comes back, oh my god, mommy had the best time. I'm like, thank God. Because in sometimes in those moments, I want to just bring them home, eat popcorn and watch a movie and shut the world out. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Like, let's just not do that today. But every time I do that, I'm making it harder for the next time.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Oh, 100%. I mean, it's yeah. Yeah. I she just so we're going to Canada to see my sister in a few weeks. And the kids all know how to ride their bikes, which is amazing. My sister's is a great mom when it comes to things like that, for sure. But and Adriana didn't know how to ride her bike without the training wheels. And I didn't want her to learn because we were going to Canada because they know how to ride their bikes. But I did want her to learn because I don't want her to feel like she can't keep up. I don't want her to feel like, oh, I can't do that. Right. And it was my fault because I'm never, I'm not outside like that with them in a sense as much as I should. You know, so but anyways, long story short, she then learned how to ride her bike this weekend, you know, and I was crying. I was crying because I was so proud of her. Yeah, it's amazing. But that's because I pushed her to do it. After the first time, she wanted to just go back inside. And I was like, no, we're not quitting. We're gonna do this. You're gonna know how to ride your bike today, and not because I needed her to learn how to, I wanted her to believe in herself. Oh, I wanted her to know that she and how amazing did she feel when she did it. She was so happy. Was she so proud of herself? You know, at school the next day. And I didn't push her because I needed her to know how to ride her bike and keep up with her cousins. No, I needed her to know that she can do it because I feel like I've kept kept her behind on so many things because of me, not because of her, but she started believing that she couldn't do those things. Like I remember she came home after field day saying, Mommy, like she was just eating. She turns around, she said, Mommy, I'm not fast like my friends. And it's because again, I have not kept her outside. Yeah, I have the way that I grew up, she's certainly not growing up like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

I say it is a different world though. I was gonna die.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

I also you took them everywhere. You took them everywhere, no matter what. You took them everywhere. Yeah, you took them hiking, you took them to your doctors, you took them, you did all that.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

They've been dragged everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

I have not done that because so here's my belief I don't believe in a kid being in a situation where they have no business being in, unless obviously you have to, right? That's how that's my belief. Right. I see other parents doing it, great, could never do it. I just don't believe in me taking my kid if I have to go buy a dress for myself, right? Or shopping or or errands. I don't believe in that. I don't believe in this is not their environment. I just that's just I guess not my brain. And you're parenting, yeah. You know what I mean? So I've never taken them places, I have never made a doctor's appointment when I knew I I would have to take them with me. Okay. I have always scheduled it around, okay, Juana's gonna be home, so I'm gonna go do my doctor's appointment.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

But you think that's great too, because you're making sure that you're you have you're not dragging them everywhere and it's your time, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Right, but it was more so not because of me, it was more so because I can't handle a situation where I have to do something for me and they might have a tantrum. They might I can't handle that. Mentally, it doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

I have to have control of my situation. If I need to get a doctor's appointment done for myself, that's how it's gonna be. Because if they have a tantrum and then I'm gonna have to go back home because then you you're not concentrating on what you need.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Correct. See, I I don't know what it is. I did take them everywhere and we have done everything. And I don't know, I don't think either one is right or wrong. Oh no, I don't I just did that because I I didn't have a choice, but I don't I didn't I also didn't want them ever thinking most of the stuff I've done with them, I've done alone, especially traveling and hiking, because I didn't ever want them thinking they couldn't do something because they were a girl.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Or because they were single.

SPEAKER_05 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

So like that was my thought process. Yeah. The doctor's appointments and the dentist appointments they've gone to is because I've had no choice. Yeah. This is this is what I'm doing, this is what I need to fit in. And I don't ever remember panicking about those things. I panicked, I listen, I have plenty of fears and panic about other stuff, but like that just never bothered me. Yeah. Like I specifically remember my youngest having a huge, she was not even two, huge tantrum in Target, screaming and everything, whilst I was getting the older one clothes for something she really needed. There was no option for me to leave. And I remember these like little old ladies staring at me in like disgust. They may have not have been staring at me in disgust, but that's what I said. You felt all eyes on you. And I was like, whatever, you gotta scream. Because I I need to get these.

unknown 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

You know, and then I put her in the car and she falls asleep all the way home, like a little angel. Yeah. So I think I just did it because I wanted to make sure I just continued to do the things I wanted to do.

unknown 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

And maybe that helped teach them independence. I think so. I think that yeah, it it taught them that there's an outside world. Yeah. You know, I it taught them how to be in the outside world. Where I think that once I started taking them different places and then they would go crazy. I think that they didn't know how to behave around other people.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

To be fair though, you had Lulu during COVID.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

But the world was different. Imagine being born into that. We know a different world. Yeah, I mean, that is true.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

I for a year and a half she didn't go anywhere. Right. Anywhere. Didn't see her doctors.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Didn't see anything but this. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Like, of course, it's it's a hard. I remember I was supposed to start her in school earlier. I specifically didn't because there was no way I was putting on a mask on her.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

No way. And I think she was 18 months. Yeah. Actually, a year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Yeah. A year. No way she was going to go to school with a mask.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

I was thinking about them suffocating. That's that was my thought. She's not going to be able to breathe.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

No, I yeah. Listen. I kept mine home for a whole year because I wasn't gonna sit next to someone 10 feet away and then be told that they have to quarantine for two weeks. Like I just kept them home.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

There's Emily needs structure, right? So to go to school, to not go to school, to all of that. It just nope, you're home. I know you're home. Online. I mean, they hate it, they hated it. And thank God it was wasn't forever because I'm not a teacher. I can teach you independence and dressing yourself and hiking and all that, but I don't ask me to teach you math or science.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

Yeah, well, I'm kind of the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Oh my god, no.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

And I can't teach them independence. I just sometimes don't want to. Yeah. I I think I just want to keep them, I don't know, little forever, even though like it drives me absolutely nuts. But no, that's what I just love things. I I think it's I love feeling needed too. And sometimes I just don't. It's like I love feeling needed, but I need a long time. It's like you want to be invited to the party, but you don't want to go out. Yeah. Exactly. 100%. Yeah. So yeah, and I think that, you know, independence. I mean, look, every parent is different. I will say that I do get sometimes bothered knowing that there's kids out there that are older and there's certain things they don't know how to do.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

I I get bothered for them. Not I'm not judging the parent, but I I get bothered, like I feel sad. It's gonna be hard for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah. I always struggle with the shoelace thing. Like you're putting shoes on your kid with shoelaces, but they don't know how to tie them, and you're sending them out for the day.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

And of course, I put shoelaces on, Dodo.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

I'm gonna tie everybody's shoelace, right? I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

But like I want if I'm putting something on my kid, I want them to know how to work it, right? Like if you give them a backpack, you want them to know how to unzip it. If you give them a lunchbox, you want them to know how to open it.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

Well, it was also I remember how, you know, in Montessori, the way that they teach you how to put on your coat. And so you put it upside down on the floor.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Oh, I've seen that.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

Isn't that you that made a comment the other day? Someone made a comment because Sophia threw her jacket on the floor to put it on.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

And but that's how she learns at school. She throws it on the floor upside down and she puts it on. But somebody, I don't remember, I don't know if it was you or if it was somebody else, made a comment, say, Oh, that's weird, you know, but that's how that's how she learned it. Now she she's two years old, she knows how to put on her jacket and zip it up.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

It's her jacket. If she wants to throw it, yeah, she can throw it wherever she wants. Yeah, yeah. There's some things I don't pick on, right? There's some battles I just aren't worth, yeah, aren't worth fighting. And whether you throw your coat or not isn't one of them. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 31:57

Yeah, yeah. But you know, at the end of the day, I I do believe in teaching kids to be independent. I I do believe in teaching them life skills. I would much rather my kid know how to, you know, zip up a jacket or cut an apple than knowing what two plus two is. I would think that before anything else.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yeah, I know I agree. I like um the next thing on my list is teaching them to balance, not checkbook because nobody uses that anymore, but to teaching them to balance the account.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

And they're both great at things like that, but they don't really understand. If you're not taught, how do you understand? Like for you with your credit cards, right? You didn't understand if you only paid the minimum that you'd be paying it off for like 20 years. So I want to make sure that they're financially independent. You know, somebody wanted them to add them onto their accounts, and I was like, absolutely not. Like they need, they have their own accounts, they need their own credit score that's built on their credit alone. I know there's ways to help them along the way, but I don't want them to be dependent on anybody for that kind of thing. I want them to understand. So it doesn't just stop with being independent on tying your shoes or independent to cut your own apple or to dress yourself as they get older. It's independent, financially independent, emotionally independent. Like you don't want to keep you don't want your kid to rely on other people to bring them what they need in life at all. Because we want them.

SPEAKER_04 33:31

I mean, yeah. I mean, you know how I feel about financially independent. That's definitely right.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

And you're the two young now, but like I'm at that point now where I'm like, no, this is even just Emily getting money for her birthday, and I've done this for years, but you know, use some and put the rest away. Eventually, this sounds crazy. Eventually, they're gonna need money for a car, right? So I never really thought about that. So when I said it, like you should put money away, one day you're gonna need it for a car, whatever. To them, they're like, What? And now Emily is 16 and she's gonna need a car. So the other day she had money and I said, Let's put that away in the bank towards your car. And she's like, Yes, mommy. Yeah, but I know I wish I know that she's like, Oh, I should have listened, you know, two years ago.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

What? There's so many things that I wish I had known earlier, or not wish I had known earlier, because that's dumb. I should have taken the time to learn about it. Right. But yeah, like putting money away earlier, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, financially independent for it. I don't think you can they're in teenagers, yeah, preteens. It's time to start learning about bank accounts. And I say this to them all the time. Though I'll give them my card and tell them to go pay for something, or they'll run in and get the takeout and they'll get back in the car. This was this this drove me nuts, actually. And I'd be like, Oh, okay, thanks. How much was it? Oh, I don't know. And that was oh okay. So I kept doing it then. Hey, how much was it?

SPEAKER_04 34:59

So now that I love because yes, it's so I mean I do it now. I'm not looking at the gas prices because what? What am I gonna do? Walk. I agree with that. What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

I know. I do the same.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

But at the same time, yeah, I love that you're teaching them that. Yep, because yeah, everything has a value, and now they get you have a value and like not a monetary value, but there is monetary value and there is a you value, right? You know, everything in life has a value.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yep, they'll get in the car and I'll have in my car back and they'll be like, oh, it was, and I'm like, yes. So it pissed me off like them getting in the car. I start to get like annoyed that they did that they would just use listen, I sent them in to pay for it.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

I also think that it comes because of your background, because of everything that you went through financially. You don't want them, it makes you even more angry that they have a disregard for things that you struggled with, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, because it's the same for me. I came from nothing, right? Literally from nothing. So it pisses me off when they don't put back the caps on the markers because they dry out. And guess what? She said to me at I don't know, I think she was four and a half, hundreds.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

We'll just get new ones. We did that.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

I I was like, but then it was my fault because I never taught her the value of things. Yeah. And now I always tell her, I said, you have to take care of your stuff because there's no such thing as, oh, we'll just buy another one. No such thing. Yeah, I don't have money. I tell her, and then she came home the other day. She said she told her friends that we're broke.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I said, okay. Let me tell you about that. That's but I took a bunch of them to the city on Saturday, and these are all good girls. They're they've been a tight-knit group for a while. And I took them to the city for Emily's Sweet 16s, and I heard Emily's friend turn around and say, like, okay, we're gonna, we're in Starbucks, right? So we get to the city, we go to Starbucks, we're going to the freak collection, and then we're going to Central Park, and then we're going to eat dinner. So obviously, I'm mom, and and that was her party gift kind of thing. So I I heard her friend say, whatever the word is for small in in Starbucks, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

For what?

SPEAKER_01 37:27

What's this? When you know when you're in Starbucks and you want the small, a tall. A small cup.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Tall.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Okay, whatever it was. She was like, okay, everybody, we're just gonna order a tall. She doesn't know I heard her say that, but she was basically telling all the girls. Like I love that. I almost choked up. Oh. Not because I needed her to say that, because I'd already came prepared that I was gonna be spending money at Starbucks and Gelato and dinner. Like I was prepared. But I heard her say that, and everyone was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, that yeah, is irreplaceable. Yeah, like that was thought. And I haven't told her mom yet, but I'm gonna tell her mom because but I did say it to Emily the next day, I was like, you know what? I really appreciate and she's like, Oh yeah, mommy. So with me saying over time, yeah, what's the how much was it? You know, there was a long time where they were just spending money on not oh I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

Oh, yeah, you know, I was worried for Adriana for a second there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was really worried. I was like, what did I do? When she said that, I was like, What did I do? And I've had that say that. Yeah, and I think she was literally four and a half years old. You'll just get new ones, just order new ones. Just go on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah, no, I've had the same thing, and they do learn because then we realize, oh man.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

I mean, she luckily she did. She now tells her sister, Sophia, you have to put the markers, the caps back, you know, and I teach her to take care of her stuff. Like she now gets upset when Sophia draws all over her new doll or her new face. I was like, Adriana, you did the same when you were little. Yeah, that happens. We can wash it off. But she teaches her, she's like, You can't do that, or you have to clean it after that.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Oh, yeah. So see, you were doing a good job, mama. Yeah, this is all the things we learn because we've never been here before. Yeah, right? We've been in certain places and we know what it's like not to have money, we know what it's like to not have food, yeah, all of those things. But you know, we don't want our kids to ever know that. No, but we kind of want but we kind of want them to know it a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

Do you know how many times I tell Adrian, sheep they must have between the two of them, God knows how many baby dolls. Because Juan, every time we'll bring new baby dolls, and I tell her every time, ah, you're lucky. I only had one if I had one.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

And God don't lose it. Yeah. And and the American girl dolls are so expensive, and they're just lying around in a basket in my house.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Well, all I wanted to do is cut the hair off my dolls, anyways. And then I learned that they never grew back.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

But oh disappointment.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

These are lessons you learned. That's the Barbie I had. She was a bald for the rest of her life. Now it's fashionable, so but yes, so also I wanted them to have the pixie cut because you think that the Barbie hair will fall. And I've loved that hair style, I guess, since then. And I would cut them and then that pissed me off.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Disappointment, but you have to go through disappointment to feel the joys of not being disappointed. Uh well, I think I think you're doing a great job teaching them independence and also holding on to some of your little littleness with the little ones.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Yeah, but I think like you've taught me a couple things today, which you know I would absolutely love to know more. I would love to know how how independent is a dep independent for you. Right. How independent, like what skills do you teach your kids at what age and why?

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Right? Someone help me and tell me how they manage to get their let their kids drive off in a car and not want to swallow their heart. You know what I mean? Because that's next for me. That's that that's gonna be a test for me. Yeah. Not not Emily, but that's gonna be a test on me. So any advice would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 41:20

So, um, yeah, you might raise your kids to be independent or less independent just because you want to keep them in the bubble, but either way, you're not alone.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

And you're definitely not done.